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#153. The Substandard on Widows and Meeting the SSEU
Listen to this episode ↗on Substack, where the show lives now
Dudes Chatting — the first Substandard Expanded Universe party (SwampCon): JVL hosted roughly 30–35 podcast listeners at his home — newly repainted and refurnished for the occasion — marking the show's 100th main episode. All three hosts reflect on the experience: Vic worked the room enthusiastically and was voted most popular; Sonny (who arrived first and left early, having a three-week-old at home) found it moving that the listeners had formed their own community independent of the hosts; JVL took a Xanax and burped an infant. Guests came from Texas, Indiana, Florida, and Scandinavia. Vic describes the gathering as resembling a Weekly Standard cruise but younger.
Box Office: Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald took the top spot at $62M — the lowest domestic opening ever for a Harry Potter/Wizarding World franchise film. The Grinch placed second at $38M, and Bohemian Rhapsody held strong in third at $15.7M. The hosts are baffled that Venom is approaching $800M worldwide, with JVL attributing it to Tom Hardy's movie-star charisma and a comparison to Johnny Depp's breakout in Pirates of the Caribbean.
Reviews: Sonny reviews Steve McQueen's Widows, a politically conscious heist thriller set in Chicago, based on a British TV series. He calls it something like "Lady Heat" — Viola Davis leads a trio of women (with Michelle Rodriguez and Elizabeth Debicki) planning a heist after their criminal husbands die, while the real drama is a portrait of ward-level political corruption pitting a Manning family gangster (running for alderman) against the Mulligan dynasty (Colin Farrell, Robert Duvall). Sonny singles out a brilliant uncut shot tracking Colin Farrell's SUV from a poverty-stricken campaign event back to his gated home as a perfect visual essay on corrupt local politics. He praises Debicki as the MVP, Kaluuya as a chilling psychotic brother, and the Duvall-Farrell father-son confrontation as the film's emotional peak. His reservation: a Gillian Flynn–style twist at the end undermining the film's realism and making him wish Liam Neeson had simply stayed dead. Verdict: three to four stars, a strong contender for best-of-year honors for JVL (who calls it the best film about city corruption since Chinatown), though Vic found it overlong and wanted more heist.
Spirit of the Week is Captain Morgan 1671, brought by listener Stephen Phillippe; Sonny declares it "smells like college."
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00You have no idea, do you? Or did you choose not to know? Your husband stole two million dollars from me.
JVL00:00:16This is about my life! This is about my life!
Guest00:00:24And because it's about my life, it now becomes about yours.
Vic00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another edition of The Substandard, sponsored by Warby Parker. I'm Victor Matys, along with Study Bunch and Jonathan V. Lass. I'd like to remind you The Substandard is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. Just look on our podcast and search for Substandard. You will easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a review. Gentlemen, how are we? JVL, have you recovered from that party? No. Well, tell our listeners what happened over the weekend. This was really something magical, wasn't it?
JVL00:01:19So, Victorino, you and I have known each other for nearly half of our natural lives. Yes. Yes. yes how much of how about 20 how much of your unnatural lives good question sunny yes sir we've known each other for all of our cosmic lives obviously yeah how many parties have i thrown
Vic00:01:42in that time uh let's see i met you in 97 and now it's 27 2018 so it's 21 years or so that i've
JVL00:01:51known you yes uh i'd say one how many parties have i attended in that time uh of your own volition
Vic00:01:59uh none i'd say no uh some i think you felt compelled i would see you at parties where you felt as company man to show up to a party at some place uh and early on we would just go to some places to see what was going on i know you didn't like going to the parties i remember that uh and of your own volition would you say that the number of total the total number of parties i have
JVL00:02:23attended while while being your friend your bosom friend yes is bosom buddy is greater or less than
Vic00:02:3015 less than less than less than 15 in fact i'd say the number of uh times you've been to a party are probably the number of times i've been to a party in a week so so over the weekend yes
JVL00:02:44i threw a party for the substandard expanded universe now how did this come about okay i didn't actually throw the party did you throw the party let's get into the details here so my lovely wife decided that we were going to have a party now i believe that the party was simply an excuse to redo our family room because in somehow in preparation for the party we repainted and and refurnished the entire family room.
Sonny00:03:15Now, how these two things were connected, I don't quite know. You actually painted a whole room in preparation for the party?
JVL00:03:23We paid professional painters to paint an entire room in preparation for the party, yes.
Sonny00:03:29Okay. Seems like overkill, but all right.
JVL00:03:31And got new furniture.
Sonny00:03:33New furniture? Oh, yeah. No, no. When I say redid, I mean like redid the room. Wow. Should have put up some subway tile. If I've learned anything from watching hours and hours of HDTV over
JVL00:03:42the last three weeks. Do you know that giant two-story wall? Subway tile? Yeah. That giant two-story wall in my bedroom, which you were at at the party, that would have been
Sonny00:03:50a lot of tile. It would have been a lot of tile. That's like $3,000 worth of tile right there.
Vic00:03:55Anyways, for me, parties, I always think of it as a good excuse just to clean the house, let alone renovating. My goodness. So we had 30,
JVL00:04:0335 people there. Yeah, there were a lot of people there. There were a lot of people there. We had a lot of babies there.
Vic00:04:10There were a lot of kids We had a little miniature bunch We have so many young listeners
JVL00:04:17Who spit up on me when I burped him Which is one of my superpowers I am an astonishingly good burper Of infants This has been true My entire parenting life You hand me an infant who has just Sucked down a bunch of milk or formula And I will get that kid to burp
Sonny00:04:36You should definitely be in the Mystery Men sequel basically that's your power the burper yeah yeah and uh he's called the burper and then you expect him to come in and burp really loud but he grabs you and burps you and you can't do
Vic00:04:47anything you can't do anything about it completely debilitated so here's here's the thing and then
JVL00:04:51i want to ask you boys about your experience what was your experiential vector at this party
Vic00:04:55but i would say i had a good time whoa really you did no i was a wreck all day
Sonny00:05:03leading up to the party. I was the first one there because I'm always the first one anywhere.
Vic00:05:09I saw your car and that's how we knew which house you were on.
Sonny00:05:11We went down that lane. Always right and always first. Always first. And I would say that when we got there, you looked pale, like death. Yes. Like I thought you were going to have a panic attack. Like you have more color now than you did, I remember.
JVL00:05:25Well, I hadn't yet taken my Xanax because I had to take a little chemical helper to get me through the party. Can you mix Xanax and Shuffer Puffer? Is that safe? Yes, you're not supposed to mix it with alcohol, Sonny. Supposed to. With alcohol. I had a great time. I would like to know, how were you guys? Did you enjoy it? What was your party like?
Sonny00:05:51It was very nice, and it was kind of surprising to see all these people who came to a party that is nominally about our podcast. And I realized about halfway through the party that it's actually not about our podcast at all. It's about this like little community of friendship that they've created. And that made me feel good about myself because I've created something with you guys that has created like a realm of kinship for a complete group of strangers. If we were wondering about who's going to the good place, this would be like plus 500 points. Like all of this happiness we've created for all of these other people who like, again, they're into their own thing. They don't even really need the subs.
Vic00:06:30They don't know if we ended, They already have their own podcast.
Sonny00:06:33They don't need us.
Vic00:06:34They might not even be listening anymore.
Sonny00:06:36It made me glad. You know that shot at the end of Raising Arizona where Nick Cage sees all of his family and the grandkids and the great grandkids? That's what I felt like watching the substandard.
Vic00:06:53And how appropriate before Thanksgiving because it looked like a Thanksgiving dinner.
JVL00:06:56Victorino, how about you? I would say you were enormously popular at this point. People, after you guys left, everybody talked about how much they love Vic. And in fact, I believe I took a little informal survey. They liked you best of the three of us. Oh, yeah. They would have elected you president. Can we just-
Vic00:07:12It's not that I do that.
JVL00:07:13I don't aim to please, Jonathan. Vic was totally working the room to make sure he had enough votes. He was whipping the votes. Whipping the votes. If I can just interrupt briefly.
Sonny00:07:23Please. Jonathan and I, I would say, are friendly enough to people we know, but are somewhat reserved around people we don't know. And this is not a crippling affliction that Vic shares. So it is not surprising to anyone involved that Vic is the most popular of the substandard hosts.
Vic00:07:43I like to push the envelope every now and then. I think I'm probably going to say something that's going to repel one of the guests. But as long as the majority of guests find the material funny, even if it's not the majority, it's still working. voice yeah no you can get away with anything and i i made a joke using your uh toy what is that microphone you had that yellow the moana microphone oh it was a moana microphone oh that makes it even more special where i thought it was something else anyway uh that was it was great to meet everybody it reminded me in a weird way you missed that sunny i must have i must have been
Sonny00:08:14i thought it was for massage i was here i thought it was a sharper image gotcha gotcha yeah i was
Vic00:08:19the first one there and the first one gone yeah you left uh well you had a three-week-old we got we were all just happy you made a baby um it was great it reminded me of meeting all the nice folks and only the nice folks at like a weekly standard cruise you know where you have all these sort of like-minded people that you don't actually know but they kind of know you um through you know in the in the standards case the you know the readings obviously much younger demographic
JVL00:08:43the standard cruisers uh you were literally the oldest person at this party oh no don't say that
Vic00:08:49No, no, no. You are literally the oldest person there. No, I guarantee you that is not the case. My wife is older than me. Oh, jeez.
JVL00:08:56By a couple weeks.
Sonny00:08:59But not that anyone ever thinks that. You guys were the old folks. You were the old people there. That's so crazy. Kate, I know a great divorce attorney if you need to.
Vic00:09:06I'm thinking really hard about this. Really, the old... 100%. You know, this is happening more and more where, you know, I found a guy in our office. I'm looking at him right through the window right now, actually, at the Free Beacon office. Todd Shepard, who is actually a year older than me, and I pointed this out to him, and he was so upset to hear that because he was pretty certain that I was older than him. And I mentioned to other people in the office, hey, I'm not the oldest person here, not counting Bill Gertz. Did you go around telling everyone? I did, and you know what they said? They would be like, like Liz Harrington, be like, really? Thanks, man. They're like, really? I can't believe that. What are you saying? So anyway, it was so nice to meet these folks at the party, and it is funny and i've i've heard this before you hear this a lot um now i mean we've been doing this is our 100th main episode uh 100 episodes clip show we gotta do the clip show for next week and uh they'll say oh i feel like i know you you know they know all about you i remember when i went out when i was out in rome and i saw uh kishore jai bon he's like i know about you and your jersey upbringing the whole story and the same thing here and i kind of feel like i know them and I feel like we've met them before but of course most of them we haven't and it's just because of social media and like on Facebook pictures family stuff like that and so you see their faces I've seen Steve Phillippe's face before and obviously and I feel like I know Flagg Taylor for a long time but you know in terms of actually meeting them this was a first and so
JVL00:10:30that was a really nice thing well now they'll know me even better since I'm sure they've planted cameras all through my house. So it was great. I would say it would surprise me. Yeah. So of this, you know, several dozen people,
Sonny00:10:45every single one of them normal. Yeah.
JVL00:10:47I figured like we'd have one crazy person. And they're all totally normal. Yeah, they're great.
Vic00:10:52Normal jobs, smarter, I'm sure, than me.
JVL00:10:55They're all smart, normal people who just happen to, for some dumb reason, like our show. Yeah. It was great.
Vic00:11:01And they came from everywhere. They came from Texas, Indiana, Florida, Atlanta, Finland, Sweden.
JVL00:11:10No, Finland.
Vic00:11:11I believe he's from Greenland. I believe he's from Greenland.
Sonny00:11:14Denmark.
Vic00:11:14I asked Thomas last year. I said, so how far north up in Sweden? I said, like in Lapland? He goes, well, it depends. There's three different Laplands, actually. Vic is trying to figure out which one to conquer first. We liked it so much that I think we're going to do it again.
JVL00:11:32SwampCon 2019. SwampCon 2019.
Sonny00:11:35Also, I just want to say thank you to all of the members of the Substandard Expanded Universe who chipped in for a very nice gift card for my family and I. I'm going to buy so many John Carpenter Blu-rays. Before we move on. Perfect for the baby. That's money is fungible.
JVL00:11:51Can before we move on, can I, the last bit of mop up from the party. Uh-oh. There were some presents for you boys. Uh-oh.
Vic00:12:00What? I already got a present.
JVL00:12:01So the first presents are from Shannon and I. These are your Thanksgiving presents. Oh, what? Thanksgiving presents?
Vic00:12:07Thanksgiving presents are the thing. You're always giving Thanksgiving presents.
Sonny00:12:10I was going to actually get you something for Christmas now, but no more. We got you guys Lego minifig keychains.
JVL00:12:18I got Sonny, Director Krennic, the real hero.
Sonny00:12:22He's got a cape and everything. And Vic, I got you bells.
Vic00:12:25I see that. And she's the skinny, the hot Lego, not the fat Lego. Is there a fat Lego? Yes.
JVL00:12:32Well, the normal Lego. And these are the, what are they called? Friends? Lego friends? Lego princesses. Oh, okay.
Vic00:12:38But the body type is not the traditional Lego.
JVL00:12:41You want to talk about the body of the Lego? That's on you.
Vic00:12:44Do you like the Lego body? I love it. It's wonderful. She's adorable. Like a brick.
JVL00:12:49The other is from a anonymous substandard fan. And this is a cross podcast present. I can see that. It is a mug. for the Washington Free Beacon podcast, hashtag the Liz and Natalie show.
Sonny00:13:08Oh, my goodness.
JVL00:13:09So this is for you boys to use to troll your coworkers. Okay. Oh, my gosh. Somehow, when you tape write and write. When you mirror hours. Yeah, I'll tape it. I'll tape it.
Guest00:13:19I'll drive them crazy.
Vic00:13:21That's really nice. Listen, hashtag the Liz and Natalie show, because that's really what it is. It's called. People are so, whenever I go on, If I have to sub in for Liz Harrington and I open up with my voice, hello and welcome to another edition of Write and Write Art, I could tell there's just lots of clicks. Clicks off. Lots of dudes. Or you have to do a pop culture update. Lots of dudes. It's very upset. And I hear it on Twitter. So they let me know how, you know.
JVL00:13:49I give thanks for you guys. Oh, that is thanks. That is thanks.
Vic00:13:53And I also want to thank.
JVL00:13:54But the mug's not from me. The mug is, again, from an anonymous substandard fan.
Vic00:13:57Anonymous substandard fan. Thank you to whoever that is. And I would also like to thank Tama Bella for, he was there with his lovely family, and he gave me a nice mug of his homemade eggnog based on a Michael Ruhlman recipe. Michael Ruhlman is the best. I love him, and I can't wait to try that. I love that sort of stuff. How long does eggnog keep? Well, apparently he's been aging it for like a year or more, and apparently that's okay because it's so boozed up. And I'm going to try it because I love that stuff. I love Irish cream. I had Mike Warren's Irish cream. It's delicious.
Guest00:14:34What?
Vic00:14:34Okay. And you know what else? I got a prop here too. Leftover beaver nuggets.
JVL00:14:42Oh, you brought your beaver nug.
Vic00:14:44I did, and I think these were a joke gift. They're from Texas, and they were a joke gift to either Flagg or to Thomas or Steve Phillippe or to Thomas.
JVL00:14:55Do people know what beaver nuggets are?
Vic00:14:57No, they're like corn pops.
JVL00:14:59But they're corn pops that are proprietary food stuff of some Texas gas station chain.
Vic00:15:04Lovely. I want to put them in a bowl with milk. It'd be like, you know, like cereal.
Sonny00:15:10I mean, you saw his Texas Fair report. There's nothing in that bag that can hurt Vic Mattis.
Vic00:15:17I'm impervious. My body's impervious to that ever since I had fried butter. Sonny, how are you doing otherwise?
Sonny00:15:22I'm great, you know. Great. I'm at the point of new again fatherhood where I'm like flipping through the channels at two in the morning. And I'm sitting there saying to myself, you know, I've got a lot of movies that I need to watch because I'm a member. I'm a very important film critic, as you know. I'm a member of the Washington Area Film Critics Association. And this is the time of year when we get lots of screeners. We get lots of movies that we're supposed to watch and stuff we've missed and we need to catch up on to decide who has the best movie. This is a very important, serious, serious power that I have. With great power. And I find myself turning on the TV with the intent of turning on one of these screeners and instead turning on the guide channel or, you know, turning on the guide, the Comcast guide and being like, oh, Public Enemies is on. Oh, that's a good one. I'll watch this for half an hour and then watch it for like two hours and pass out on the couch. Nice. That's basically what my days and nights look like.
JVL00:16:23What screeners have you watched recently? Are they in high def? Are they Blu-ray screeners?
Sonny00:16:28No. We only get the – well, so there are two types of screeners that we get. We get links, and the links are often in high def. The links are like streaming, and they often stream.
JVL00:16:38And you click on a link on your television.
Sonny00:16:40So I have a cord that runs. So I have a Mac that has a lightning outlet with an HDMI. So it's lightning to HDMI. So anyway, I just plug my computer into the TV and watch it that way. And those are often in HD, and they're usually, they're actually, like the technology has come very far on this. It used to be when we would get like a group of links that we would never watch any of them because the movies would always crap out halfway through. But the technology has matured a bit, And we are now able to, like, fully watch HD streaming video, which is nice. So anything good? No. Not really. And we also get DVDs. And I've watched a couple of the DVDs, one of which is Can You Forgive Me, which is the Melissa McCarthy movie about the author who was forging handwritten notes from famous authors like Dorothy Parker. Is this her Oscar nomination moment? Well, she's been nominated before. She was nominated for Bridesmaids, I think. She definitely has one nomination. Anyway, but it was actually quite good. It was quite good and quite touching. I quite enjoyed it. She could be in the running. It's the perfect sort of role for her where it's like she's caustic and mean, but it's not.
Vic00:17:58You think she's just being herself?
Sonny00:17:59Yeah, but it's not like there's not a lot of physical body humor.
JVL00:18:04She's not like crapping in a sink or something like that.
Sonny00:18:08That happened. She's not making queef jokes.
Vic00:18:10Okay, again, that was the second time it's been mentioned on this show. I don't even know what that is. I want to just go back to the party and different conversations. You have all these little conversations you're having when you get to know all these nice people. And I'm not going to use names because maybe they want me to talk about it. But I had an intriguing conversation with a guy who basically, he and his brother from Florida. And he basically grew up with – he and his brother grew up with the exact opposite style of upbringing when it came to movies and television. And so whereas I watched almost everything with a handful of exceptions, they watched almost nothing. And so that was intriguing. And he was talking about trying to see The Mask because that was what they wanted. Trying to see The Mask. Because that was edgy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sonny00:19:02I'll tell you what, Cameron Diaz's legs go for days in that movie.
Vic00:19:05Yeah, that was a good movie for her. And I said to him, when you finally were able to just watch any movie you wanted, what was it? And he said, old school.
JVL00:19:17The great comedy of our time.
Vic00:19:18But it must be so shocking if you went from like zero to suddenly it's old school. It's like, man, your head would explode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Kinney brothers?
JVL00:19:26The real reason you didn't want to say their names is because you don't remember them. Oh, I do. Even though you're Mr. President. No, no, no, no, I do, I do. and Patrick, but I didn't want to get into it.
Vic00:19:34Both college ballplayers. Flash had a lot of questions. Oh, good. Good, good. And the other thing is, you know what he mentioned, is they didn't watch any Harry Potter.
Sonny00:19:44Yeah, I don't, I think they haven't.
Vic00:19:46They're the last people, you know. I know, which is great. Let's see what's coming here.
Sonny00:19:49Oh, over the weekend, Sonny. Speaking of people not watching Harry Potter.
Vic00:19:53But why?
JVL00:19:55I want to put the gif in of the kids going.
Vic00:20:02Thank you, Sonny. Fantastic Beasts and the Crimes of Grindelwald. Colon, the Crimes of Grindelwald. Took the top spot at the box office with $62 million, followed by Dr. Seuss' The Grinch with $38 million, and coming from behind in third place, Bohemian Rhapsody with $15.7 million. I hope it lingers. I hope it stays around.
Sonny00:20:29If only Facebook Live. Oh, yeah. I didn't see that one.
Vic00:20:32Well, the chair is rocking.
Sonny00:20:34It needs to be. It needs the chair. The chair is a rock.
Vic00:20:37It needs lubrication. Box office. Box office. Sonny, while JVL recovers, box office thoughts. Is that a good number for Fantastic Beasts, 62 million?
Sonny00:20:48No. Well, so it's interesting because it did make about a quarter of a billion dollars worldwide.
Vic00:20:54Right now, it's all just simultaneous now around.
Sonny00:20:57So if you want to look at the international numbers, they're not terrible. uh if you want to look at the domestic numbers this is i believe the worst opening for a harry potter branded movie yeah i think it is i'm not i'm not 100 sure maybe jbl can effort that for us um but i'm uh but it's it's a it's a bad number and it just gets back to the the point that people i don't know that people at least people in america i don't know that they want harry potter movies without harry potter what right like this is it's it it's it's a it's a real problem like the harry potter expanded universe is not particularly interesting um i don't know exactly why that is i mean i don't know exactly why that is but i also don't know why harry potter was super interesting it never it never clicked for me um it didn't it does nothing for me so i'm i'm not the right person to ask on this um but yeah that's a it's a bad figure um and i i don't know what they i i mean i guess they keep making these movies because they will keep making money
Vic00:21:58overseas but yeah i don't know um i just don't find uh eddie redmayne's character as compelling
Sonny00:22:06i guess and eddie redmayne is also just weird yeah to look at yeah i don't i don't like his face i like i'm sure a lot of people don't like my face and that's a good reason for that fair enough But he just looks weird and awkward, and I don't know.
Vic00:22:24I do like the Schlubb's character. I mean, the American who gets sucked into this, and he's a muggle. I still haven't seen the first one. Speaking of people who haven't seen it, who don't watch it. I've seen the first one. It's not compelling.
Sonny00:22:40No, the most interesting box office thing to me, I was looking through the – It's cute at the end. As I do, I was just scrolling through Box Office Mojo looking for interesting tidbits. And Venom is about to gross $800 million worldwide. Yes.
JVL00:22:54Which strikes me as an insane number.
Sonny00:22:56It's pronounced Venom. Venom. Venom. I don't under, this is like, this is a weird, totally shocking thing to me that makes no sense at all. I don't understand it. I don't understand it because it's not even, it has kind of Marvel branding. But this is more than a lot of the Marvel movies have made. It's more than Guardians of the Galaxy made. It's more than either of the Ant-Man movies has made. And it doesn't really have Spider-Man branding. I mean, it's not a Spider-Man movie. There's no Spider-Man. And this movie has now grossed more than both of the amazing Spider-Man films, the Andrew Garfield reboots. So I don't know, man. I find this weird and kind of troubling just because it's not a very good movie. And it didn't really seem to be, like, hitting huge joy centers with the audience. I wasn't seeing people out there, you know, like, running around in Venom costumes demanding more Venom. But it just keeps making money. JVL.
JVL00:23:55Well, but it's slotted, right? There is no, this was not rushed out during the summer when there's a Marvel movie every three weeks. It is off-brand in that it's R, right? It's a PG-13, but it's got cursing in it. I mean, this is a very different kind of Marvel movie.
Sonny00:24:15It's a Deadpool-ish sort of movie.
JVL00:24:17Deadpool-ish, but so much better than Deadpool. So much better than Deadpool. Two?
Sonny00:24:24Deadpool 2, certainly. And maybe Deadpool 1. No. Deadpool 1 is like a competent piece of storytelling from start to finish. This was a competent piece of storytelling.
JVL00:24:34Not much more than that. And you know what Tom Hardy's a star Tom Hardy's a movie star I don't think that's true
Vic00:24:43I do not think that Tom Hardy is a movie star He is now So I saw this on Sunday again Of course movie stars aren't a thing You went to see Venom again With my son He wanted to see it I surprised him Because I didn't think it was showing anywhere I said that movie came out so long ago And I looked it was still showing at Tyson's So I go over there to Tyson's with him He was very excited. I had to get him out of the house because my daughter had a birthday party. There's all these girls there. So I said, let's go. And the theater was crowded. And there were people in front of me. And it was the old Tysons. I forget. It's not the reclining chair. It's like the, you know.
Sonny00:25:18It has assigned seating, but they're like, they're smaller. They're small seats.
Vic00:25:22And you forget what that's like. And at least your view is not obstructed. I mean, each row is very much higher than the other one. So that's fine. It's not like completely old school. But so, of course, he loved it. He said, I wish that Venom, the symbiote, was in me. He wanted Venom in him, and he had these powers. And so he was really into it. On second viewing, it's weird, okay, how they go out of its way. The movie goes out of its way to not have a lot of Spider-Man, you know. Well, none. I mean, like, the resemblance. And they're trying to say, oh, there's no connection with this character and Spider-Man. And that's weird. I think JBL is right. Tom Hardy is great in this movie. He is.
Sonny00:26:09Tom Hardy is 100% like the thing that makes this movie work.
Vic00:26:13And he's got a real physical presence, too. And obviously, it's such a stark contrast to Michelle Williams.
JVL00:26:19Even on the second movie, still weird. I would compare the Tom Hardy performance in Venom to Johnny Depp's performance in the original Pirates of the Caribbean. I think it is something that was so out of left field that audiences reacted to the performance itself. And in the same way that the original Pirates of the Caribbean became a huge thing, just on the strength of that, I would suggest that's what's happening with Venom.
Vic00:26:46At the very end, there was the Stan Lee cameo. you did hear the audience a few oh oh quick correction yes fantastic beasts the crimes of
JVL00:26:58grindelwald yes the lowest opening ever ah for a harry potter wizarding world franchise picture the highest ever was the last deathly hallows how often does that happen that the final movie in a giant series gets a well yeah i mean obviously everyone wanted to
Vic00:27:17see how it ended and they read the book they want to see it happen but you're saying grindelwald is
Sonny00:27:21the lowest lowest yeah that was by a good margin that's how is that a correction i that's what you
JVL00:27:26had said second lowest no i said lowest oh i'm sorry i thought you said second lowest it turns out sunny was always right second lowest that might be the first probably the first crimes of
Sonny00:27:38from 74 4 to 62 yeah that's not good nobody really is curious about the sort of origin what was that What was the international box office on the first Fantastic Beasts movie? Can you just click on that real quick?
JVL00:27:51Yeah, you guys talk.
Vic00:27:52Okay. Yeah, so Venom was fine. Venom. Venom was fine, and it still looks like Sideshow Bob at the end with Woody Harrelson. With Carnage. With Carnage. You know, I just wish if this thing actually happens with, well, no, it won't happen with Sony because it's in association with Marvel. I just wish there was more of a connection, but you can't because we're currently at the high school Peter Parker iteration so that wouldn't match with Daily Bugle Peter Parker. Well technically
Sonny00:28:20teenage Peter Parker was a freelance photographer for the Daily Bugle. But there was
Vic00:28:26no J. Jonah Jameson in Homecoming.
JVL00:28:29No. Fantastic Beasts total gross worldwide $814 million $580 of which were overseas.
Sonny00:28:38We'll probably do that about again. I mean I guess $800 million is a fine number for these movies but
Vic00:28:43i guess i guess 800 million i guess 800 million works uh but actually we're actually uh not here to talk about uh crimes of grinda here we are 30 minutes into the show let's get to that let's get to the topic we're actually talking about a movie that opened in fifth place although in about half almost half as many theaters as as as a fantastic piece uh we're talking about steve mcqueen's widows and it came in in fifth place with 12 million dollars uh is it going to go up from here sunny or as it is going to be in more theaters or is it is it like what's happening
Sonny00:29:16you think well it's a it's a weird movie because it's an r-rated crime drama that's not tied to any pre-existing property that that is familiar to people i mean it is it's based on a british novel and tv series but i don't think a lot of people know uh know that um uh so it it's always the sort of movie that was never going to open huge and needs to be kind of a slow burn uh but It got a B from CinemaScore, so I'm not 100% sure that Slow Burn is going to be there. Should I?
Vic00:29:49Yeah, why not have a big boy review?
Sonny00:29:50Widows, from the director of 12 Years a Slave and Shame and Hunger, is a, I'm trying to think of how best to describe this. I would say it is a politically conscious heist thriller that is also kind of like Lady Heat. I don't know. Would you say that's – no? Oh, yes.
Vic00:30:15I thought that – what would happen if the ladies from Heat got together after their husbands died?
Sonny00:30:20No, no. This is no country from old women. No, this is – you're ridiculous. The Widows. So Widows is about a trio of women who come together after their husbands die in a heist. The heist was an attempt to steal $2 million from the Manning brothers, who are a pair of African-American gangsters, one of whom is running for city alderman in Chicago. He is trying to be the first black city councilman or city alderman in the ward's history and defeat Jack Mulligan, who's played by Colin Farrell, who is trying to inherit the seat essentially from his father, Tom Mulligan, played by the great Robert Duvall. So there are two kind of separate things going on in this film. One, there's a twisty, turny, curveball-ridden thriller heist movie. And this is the Viola Davis part of the story. Viola Davis leads this team of women, Michelle Rodriguez, Elizabeth DeBecke, join her. And there's a second part of the film, which is a portrait of a city that is crippled by corruption and graft and fraud. And it's kind of how these two ideas work together with each other that makes the film interesting. And it is interesting and it's good. I enjoyed it for the most part. I, there's, there's this one really great shot in the film that kind of ties all this together where Colin Farrell is at an event, minority women owned workplaces, MWOW, and he's talking and he's talking about how he's going to bring jobs and opportunities to this blighted area. And he gets in his SUV with his, with his body woman and they are driving back to his home, which is still in the ward, but it's on the edge of the ward. on like the nice part of the ward. And when they get into the SUV, the camera stays outside, like it's mounted on the SUV. And you can see, you can actually track the progress. You can see what he is trying to flee, essentially, this poverty and this blight to like kind of a nicer part of the city. And then to an actual gated home that is still part of the ward, but that is paid for with his corruption and his graft. I love this shot Because it kind of gets at what Everything that is wrong with Local city politics Everything that is corrupt and bad and venal And it does it in a very Visual and interesting way Sort of thing you don't really see in a lot Of kind of Mainstream crime movies So there's a lot of Interesting stuff going on here My big critique of it and maybe We'll get into spoilers after the Ad read so if you want to see it Listen to the ad and then stop stop listening. But there's one big twist at the end that I think doesn't work and that I think actually undermines the seriousness of the picture as a whole in a way that kind of saddens me. Because up until that point, I would say it was trending toward being one of the best movies of the year. After that, it's just I don't know. It doesn't work for me. But three or four stars.
Vic00:33:35Three or four. Thank you, Sonny. Before you watched the movie, Did you get the intro by Steve McQueen? This has happened in a couple of movies. I've seen a couple of movies now where the director begins the movie saying, Hi, this is whoever the director is. Thank you for watching this movie. It meant a lot to me. Have you seen this? I was very unsettled by it. What's happening here?
JVL00:33:55Because he's changed so much since Bullet. What? I mean, he doesn't even look like the same guy.
Vic00:34:00Since Papillon.
JVL00:34:01I mean, like something has really happened to him. Wow.
Vic00:34:06I don't know how to make a joke about this. Without losing all of my jobs. Yes, I was going to make a Stephen Curry. You beat me to it then. Okay, fine. But you know what I mean? Have you seen this thing? Is this a new thing now? Is this going to happen from now on?
Sonny00:34:19I assume this is an effort by the theaters and the film directors to make people feel like seeing the movie in the theater is like a personal event. That it's like almost a favor to the people who made the film. I think it's weird. I don't like it.
Vic00:34:35But I also kind of understand why it's happening. Yeah, I mean, I guess there's a lot of people who might not know that, you know, Steve McQueen is, you know, very talented director and, you know, he's innovative and he's got, you know, a lot of vision. Speaking of vision, Warby Parker was founded with a rebellious spirit and lofty goal to create boutique quality eyewear at a revolutionary price point. Available exclusively through Warby Parker's website and retail stores, glasses start at $95, including prescription lenses. Warby Parker is eyewear with a purpose. Almost 1 billion people worldwide lack access to glasses. This means 15% of the global population cannot effectively learn or work, which is crazy because glasses were invented 700 years ago. We should be on top of this. Warby Parker partners with nonprofits like VisionSpring to ensure for every pair of glasses sold, a pair is distributed to someone in need. We believe that everyone has a right to see. Warby Parker makes buying glasses online easy and risk-free. Yes, our Home Try-On program allows you to order five pairs of glasses shipped directly to your door where you could try them on in the comfort of your own home. You could try the frames for five days before sending them back using a free prepaid return shipping label and no obligation to purchase. It's 100% free and so easy to do. Sunglasses start at $95, including polarized lenses available with prescription starting at $175. Warby Parker sunglasses feature premium polarized lenses that are scratch resistant and provide 100% UV protection. I did the home try-on thing. It arrived in a few days. Five different pairs. I went through all of them. We had some disagreements. My wife and my children were ultimately the people to decide what I should wear. And that's how I ended up with the Eaton, the dark tortoiseshell glasses. And they're great. Yes. Hello. You can't even tell that they're polarized. So anyway, as I mentioned, Warby Parker has a free home try-on program. Order five pairs of glasses. Try them on for five days. There is no obligation to buy. It all ships free and includes a prepaid return shipping label. Head to warbyparker.com slash substandard to order your free home try-ons today. Glasses start at $95, including prescription lenses. Lenses include anti-glare, anti-scratch coatings. For every pair you buy, a pair is distributed to someone in need. That's warbyparker.com slash substandard to order your free home try-ons today. Also, do you have an iPhone 10? Make sure you download Warby Parker's app where you can use their brand new feature, Find Your Fit. Find Your Fit uses the iPhone 10's TrueDepth camera to map and measure key facial features. Using these measurements, Find Your Fit recommends approximately 12 Warby Parker frames that are likely the best fit for your face. The process is seamless and takes only a few seconds. I would not want to do the depth thing because I think for the iPhone 10, it's only for Homo sapiens skulls and not really for like Cro-Magnon. Cro-Magnon. Peaking man. Peaking man. Klingon. Klingon. I don't know what the phone would do.
Guest00:37:33It would be like, eh, eh. Does not compute. It would shut. Phone would blow up. Both phones would blow up.
Vic00:37:38In your hands. Blow up. Okay. JVL, you saw Widows several days ago and we got texts from you. like we thought you had just seen gone with the wind talk to us did anyone else well i thought he saw i thought he saw a good movie oh he's not gone i forgot sunny oh that's old reference there no one else saw no no no there was there's nothing else i don't know what else to say you know he i don't know what else he would have said except for you know michelle rodriguez gives a fast and furious performance but that's you know okay i really liked it yeah you did tell us
JVL00:38:13Well, it's not a heist movie. I mean, it is a movie about the American city. And in that way, I think probably the best movie about the corruptions of local politics since Chinatown. I'm Ron Burgundy. I mean, this is, so the whole, can we talk about spoilers now?
Vic00:38:35So we don't have to like talk around this.
JVL00:38:37I mean, we'll just talk about the plot of the movie. The entire story is set in, I mean, for me, The parceling out of the information about how this giant Rube Goldberg contraption was built and how it came to be is the most interesting part. And it begins with Robert Duvall, as you find out, refusing to play ball with a slightly bigger fish in Chicago politics because, as he tells his son, I don't roll over for anybody because he's this stubborn old man who has had power, you know, small time.
Sonny00:39:09He wants to make Chicago great again.
JVL00:39:13And as his punishment, his ward is redrawn with 9,000 more black voters, which creates an opportunity for Jamal Manning, who is a small-time gangster who wants to become a white-collar criminal. Because as he says to his psychotic brother, he says, look, you know, the guys, when we do something bad now, the people who come after us have guns. Once I become an alderman, we get a taste of everything that happens in this ward. And if we screw up, the people who come after us are with the IRS. Like, we can handle that. That's not a big deal. With tape recorders.
Sonny00:39:41I mean, it's even less than that. It's the press. He's very dismissive of the press.
JVL00:39:45So he thinks they can do it, but they need the money. He needs the bankroll that he has saved to finance the campaign. And so the younger Mulligan enlists Harry Rollins, a little amnesian character, to steal his bankroll. And so the theft is never about the money. The theft is about the—I mean, the heist is an attempt to steal an alderman's seat, Not an attempt to steal the money. The money is just the MacGuffin for it. And then Harry has decided to use the heist then. For him, it's not about the seat either. It's a way to escape this marriage, which to him has become a trap in which he is constantly reminded of the culpability he hones for the death of his son.
Sonny00:40:32I mean, all of these things is, man, it's fantastic. Do you think that that is what Steve McQueen intended with this? So in a flashback, we see Harry's and Viola Davis. So Liam Neeson's and Viola Davis's son is killed by the police during a traffic stop. Yes. Because he is a black man driving a Mercedes in downtown Chicago. But it's his father's fault. It's his father's fault, except I. Forcing him to do an illegal U-turn. I think my takeaway from this, and I think this was also Armand White's takeaway, is Armand White, the African-American critic for National Review and elsewhere. His takeaway, I believe, was that Steve McQueen sees this as a criticism of interracial marriage and relationships, which is kind of how it is played in the movie. Viola Davis says something like, this never would have happened if you had not married me. And she blames herself, I think, more than Liam Neeson blames himself. And I think Liam Neeson blames her more as well. That is my takeaway from how that all plays out.
JVL00:41:57My view is that both parents blame themselves, as you would imagine happens all the time when a child dies. But what the audience is supposed to take away from this is that it's his fault, not hers. he's the one who asks his kid to turn around nothing but his fault again this is there's no moral culpability here but just the circumstantial culpability that a parent would feel and so what we're supposed to look at is look at so the two parents both believe it's their fault but the person who really is carrying the weight of this is Liam Neeson because a he asked all the kids so the kid is driving his car talking to his dad and the kid has the anniversary present still in the car his dad says you got to turn around and bring it home so i can give it to your mom and the kid says yeah but i have tickets to this game and dad says you know look the anniversary of your parents is more important than your game kids like yeah yeah i know so he turns around uh cops pull him over he tosses the phone over and then his dad yells at him because he's on speakerphone and the kid lunges over to get the phone because his dad is yelling at him which is then what causes the cops to open fire and kill him so i think we the audience are supposed to think that liam neeson's own sense of guilt is the more rational sense of guilt in that viola davis's personal sense of guilt is is more misplaced okay does that does that make sense it makes sense this parent had a lot of parent-child stuff going on i mean one of the most affecting scenes i have ever seen is when, I don't even know what the character's name is. The blonde girl from the nail salon and the hair salon. So this woman comes home after working all day. Her mom has been watching her daughter. She's in the house for 15 seconds. The phone rings. She picks it up, and she basically runs out and says, you know, I can't take a cab. Cabs are tough for me right now. And we just see her running. We don't know why she's running. She runs to catch a bus. Just for. Then she shows up at Michelle Rodriguez's house to babysit her children. And she puts on this Mary Poppins-like performance. She's never met this woman before, never met these kids before. For $12 an hour. For $12 an hour to take care of this woman's children rather than her own child as an act of duty and love for her own child. I mean, I almost burst into tears with this. It was such a beautiful, hard-to-watch thing. And I think this movie is talking a lot about the duties that parents owe to their children and the things that parents do for their children.
Sonny00:44:26And the duties also that children have toward their parents. You see that in the Jack and Tom Mulligan relationship. My favorite scene in the film is the scene where Tom Mulligan, who's played by Robert Duvall again, is telling Colin Farrell's character that he has to hire back some old family. Man, that's a great scene. family he this old guy who's worked with the family for 30 years and he you know he he wasn't able to secure the endorsement of the most important pastor in the ward and this has you know this has endangered the whole campaign so he fires the guy and you know and and robert duvall comes in is like you're gonna rehire him this is our ward you know we're not giving it up to some you know uppity black guys blah blah and and colin farrell just has this broken look on his face he's like i'm tired of this i'm tired of having to deal with your bigotries and i can't wait till you're dead he's like yeah he's like i can't wait till you till people like you are dead till he doesn't specifically say like i can't wait till you're in the ground but it's basically that is that is what you're supposed to take away from this and and it and the look on robert duvall's face uh of a the realization that his his son hates him and hates the family business because that's what politics is in chicago it's a family business is is uh is is it's it's heart rending i mean look this is this is so this is my problem with the movie in a nutshell is all of these little moments are great and i think they all could have been this movie could have been 40 minutes longer and really get into how jamal manning managed to unseat the mulligans because all we really get in this in regard to this are like updates on poll numbers once every 20 minutes or so we hear oh he's down by nine points now oh he's down by six points now oh he's down but but we don't actually see him doing campaigning we don't really you know all we get is all we get is one interaction with this pastor who flips and uh i could have i could have gone i could have gone 30 or 40 minutes longer on this i could have you could have made it truly like heat and made it made it all about these relationships and instead you say this you say this is not a heist movie and you're right except it is a heist movie and the worst parts about it are the heist parts where they're discussing how twisty and turny it is and we're trying to figure out where the money's coming from and what this this second heist the second five million dollar heist that the widows are trying to pull is is is uh you know how it's all related to and bringing harry back to life at the end of the film which is what happens is this it's it's it's just a bad move that underscores kind of the unreality of all of this for me it it took me out of the film um and it
JVL00:47:14made it feel like a a a work of fiction as opposed to what was the ashley judd movie where double jeopardy right yeah there was a little bit of that to it so there's this this is so but this
Sonny00:47:29is my problem with it up until that point it is a very realistic film it is a very realistic film about families and about political corruption and about how cities are broken and how that impacts everyone in the city i mean my favorite little touch my favorite little touch is uh viola davis's character play is playing uh her her job in real life is a uh teacher's union rep she's she's like a big wig with the teacher's union so of course it makes sense that she lives in a lux penthouse with a nice driver like nobody really questions that because she works for the teacher's union uh and and it's little things like that that really make the world of the film work for me and this big jillian flynn-esque she co-wrote the film um this big jillian flynn-esque turn at the end just it's it it it wrecked all it wrecked a lot of that world building and reality didn't wreck it for me victorino did you love it as much as i did no i thought it was too long what is happening here you love everything you see i was like when is this movie gonna end let's just get to the heist this is why it has a b from cinema score people like me i came to this movie to see
Vic00:48:37heat and i have to learn about these long drawn out relationships i'm like boring but that's what heat. That's what heat is. What was that? I'm not going to mention the name of the guy. It's somebody you used to know who had terrible taste. What was it?
Sonny00:48:54About the producers.
JVL00:48:56That movie? Double thumbs down. I'm kidding about it.
Vic00:49:03You didn't like it? I just felt uncomfortable being there. I just felt like it was too long. There were aspects of it I thought were good. I was expecting my expectation was this was going to be more heist and you wanted to set it off yeah i get but i mean it's not set it is like it is like lady lady heat in my pitch like what happened if amy brenneman and ashley judd and charito's wife got together after everybody died or went away and said what do we got to do we got this one last score let's finish it off and let's do it um and so so there was that uh it's interesting man it is important this reminder that these people these these These criminals, thieves, killers have other lives. They've got family. They've got all these responsibilities. I mean, that was the whole point of The Sopranos was that there's a whole other world that we tend not to think about. But, I mean, you have a very interesting take, which is, you know, those characters, I mean, obviously, the heist guy, the robbers, that's incidental. I mean, their lives are— The heist itself is a MacGuffin. John Bernthal, you know, who I said, oh, John Bernthal was in them very briefly and playing, obviously, a bad person. I liked, okay, so who did I like? I thought it was a great cast. Elizabeth Debicki. Ooh. I am a big Elizabeth.
Sonny00:50:19I've been a big Elizabeth Debicki fan since The Great Gatsby.
JVL00:50:23Oh, I didn't even see her. She was in The Great Gatsby.
Sonny00:50:25She played like- Well, she's six foot two back then as well. Yes. I mean, this is the thing is that I always- She's enormous and she is role limited by her height. She is a giant ass. And I have always kind of noticed her because I'm like, who is that exceptionally tall person in the film? She is a foot taller than all of these Hollywood men. She's like the head gold alien in Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Oh, that's awesome. But she is, I've always been, and she was in the terrible Cloverfield, the Cloverfield Paradox, the one that went straight to Netflix. But no, but like every time she shows up, I'm like, who is this giant person? And I can't remember her name. On the screen. And it's Elizabeth Debicki. And she is by far the MVP of this movie. She does accents. She's funny.
Vic00:51:09She also did her Russian-Polish accent. So good. She was like, wow, that's pretty good. And, of course, she's a Brit. And so when I first saw her in Widows, I was like, oh, who is this? She totally fooled me. I didn't realize it was her. And then I was like, wait a minute. I know who that is from The Night Manager. And I thought she really stood out in The Night Manager. I mean, obviously, physically. She's great. She must be what? How tall is she? She's 6'2". Yeah, 6'2". She's my size. And so I like that. And, of course, Robert Duvall and Colin Farrell. And, of course, Daniel Kaluuya, who plays a great sort of – The psychotic brother. Yeah, he is the –
JVL00:51:42Who's learning Spanish. He's like the Joe Pesci of – Yeah, I mean, there's all sorts of interesting things. No, he's not like Joe, but he's not played for laughs. No, no, no. He's psychotic. He's a killer. He's only skeptical about whether or not they need to move up to white-collar crime.
Vic00:51:55Not Joe Pesci Home Alone, Joe Pesci Casino. I mean, like where he does the dirty work.
JVL00:51:59He does the dirty work.
Vic00:52:00And not a lot of dialogue, and he's another Brit actor.
Sonny00:52:03Yeah, there's another there's another great shot in this movie where you first see how crazy he really is, where he he gets the two guys television. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm thinking of the scene in the gym where he has the guys do the like rapping while the camera kind of spins around them. And he kind of dips and ducks closer and closer. I mean, he's like a shark. I mean, he moves like a shark with these kind of like fluid but constant motions. and he's getting in people's face it was i was actually like kind of relieved when he pulled the gun out and shot the guy i was like okay that's i'm glad the scene i'm glad the scene is
Vic00:52:39over i was bracing for it this is i was bracing for it and remind me of the untouchables where uh al capone has the base combat you know and it's just it's gonna happen just when is this gonna happen so i thought that was good too um yeah you know also i'll say another weird thing uh we've seen many movies now in the span of the substandard it's rare these days to see a movie where there's an actual sex scene in the movie.
JVL00:53:05I knew you'd go there.
Vic00:53:06Isn't that weird? I mean, it's weird because it's like, wow, I don't even know how to react in front of all these other people in the audience. This is kind of awkward seeing this, you know? And nudity. So that was, yeah, that's what I said. Did you start making noises? Well, no, I mean, I have all sorts of, it reminds me, I don't remember this happening, but years ago I had seen Mean Girls with Matt Layback at the waterfront.
Sonny00:53:31i don't know where this is going but it's got to stop wherever this is going i really enjoyed the
Vic00:53:36movie but apparently somebody said to matt oh yeah i heard uh you went to see uh mean girls with with at the waterfront and matt apparently said something to the effect of yeah it was great but he kept on making noises throughout like i guess i don't know i don't even maybe i made them yesterday i don't remember but that was kind of weird i mean it's like you know in the 80s you know you expect there's going to be you know nudity in any movie it's gonna any r-rated maybe pg it's gonna happen and now it's just very very rare so that was that was very rare um uh so again i don't know i felt in some ways i thought i was trying too hard uh to make all these points i get the points but i just thought it was trying too hard i
JVL00:54:16i i can't believe we're in a play normally it's flips where i yeah like you guys like yeah it's It's fine, and I'm... This is terrible.
Vic00:54:26So this movie spoke to you.
JVL00:54:27Jack, this movie spoke to you. Well, I just thought it was... I really like movies with ideas. This has a real idea about the city. And all the ideas in it are interesting. And it's also a character study. It has all the parent stuff. Viola Davis is amazing.
Vic00:54:40What is the cinema score, B? Right? Cinema score, B.
JVL00:54:43So that represents the people?
Vic00:54:44So I'll say... You're the voice of the people. You're the voice of the people? Too many ideas. It's going too many directions.
Sonny00:54:50JBL, I agree with you. All the ideas are good and interesting. Character study stuff is great. But compare it to Heat. Well, it's not Heat. That's why I give it a four and a half stars. But see, actually compare it to Heat, though, where there are no actual, like, the heists in Heat aren't actually clever. Like, we aren't expected to, like, try and guess where the money is going. It's not Ocean's Eleven, right? But the real heist is never the Italian job or the Ocean's Eleven. But that's the problem. That's the problem is that this movie turns into the Italian job or the Ocean's Eleven.
JVL00:55:20It's incredibly simple. Like all they do is like they – the key to the heist is they blackmailed the guy from the security company.
Sonny00:55:26It's all too complicated. It's all too complicated. They should have – Liam Neeson should have stayed dead and you still could have gotten all of the corruption. That's the thing. You know what?
Vic00:55:35I didn't like the idea that Liam Neeson was able to sort of off all of his buddies and he was going to kill his wife at the end. Yeah. This doesn't bother me the way it bothers you.
JVL00:55:42I understand why it would bother you. I could say – one of the reasons I don't mind it is because it leaves the movie with only a single honest crook. And the only honest crook is Jack Mulligan, the son by Colin Farrell. So he is a fascinating character. And, again, I could have had another 45 minutes that gives us more of him and more of Jamal Manning. Yeah, totally. Because Jack Mulligan hates this job, doesn't want to be the thing. But he wants to be rich. He is totally corrupt. He's willing to, you know, do what he has to do to get the thing. But he's the only guy in one of the subplots running underneath it is the Green Line. So there's some mass transit expansion coming through.
Vic00:56:26And that's totally believable, by the way.
JVL00:56:27Totally believable. Right. You know, Jack Mulligan is in favor of it. And the reason he's in favor of it is because he thinks it's going to work. All right. He does.
Vic00:56:36I mean, this is like when he tells the reporter that is going to bring all these poor people, laborers is going to get them.
JVL00:56:41You think he's being genuine when he's doing shtick then. But then as he gets in the car, he says to the body woman who he's banging on the side, he's like, don't they understand that this thing only works if you can get— I mean, he actually believes in this thing that he's doing. And he wants to get rich off of it, too. He wants to do all the graft. But he's an honest crook in that way.
Sonny00:57:03Question. What is the actual relationship between Jack Mulligan and his body woman? I couldn't tell if they were like— The redhead paperweight. In an actual relationship. What is Robert Duvall calling it? The redhead paperweight. Yeah, the redhead paperweight. I thought at first that she might be his wife. No, he's left his wife. Right. Is that a thing? Yeah, he's no longer with his wife. That's said earlier in the film, because I may have missed that. Yeah, I was just like, because it's clear that, again, a very interesting part of this film is he's like waffling he wants out, and she's like, man the F up. You gotta get your crap together, and we gotta do this, because I want money, and you want money. You want to be mayor. You want to be mayor, and this is how you become mayor.
JVL00:57:48The scene in the club, like the Union League club, where he's with all these, and again, all the casual racist fat cat types. And he just isn't willing to, like, towel snap with them. And his response is, once I have power, I'm going to get all of you f***ers investigated. And, again, I loved the Jack Mulligan character. I thought this is, again, he's a crook. He's not somebody, but he is the only character in it who is a crook. who also has an actual moral compass to him. And Liam Neeson's character, because of the turn, does not. So without the turn, you would think he is also an honest crook, but he isn't.
Vic00:58:25So two questions. Two questions. Okay. So in the end, because they jump forward to the future, and we know he wins, but we don't know what happens. How does he handle not having his money, right? He comes back, and the money is stolen. But that's also his dad's money, right?
Sonny00:58:43There's a line at the end that says, you're here to steal my retirement. So, in theory, that's not actually Jack's money. Okay. All right. Insofar as it's anyone's money.
Vic00:58:53And, you know, I mean, they talk about the tragedy of the father dying in the sympathy vote. But, of course, the other candidate's brother dies, right?
Sonny00:59:01The other brother's.
Vic00:59:02In a terrible car accident.
Sonny00:59:04This is one thing that I could have used more of is, like, how does the press actually handle the fact that this mobster. I mean, this like, this like, obviously people know who he is and that he is a, he's a, he's a criminal and that he consorts with criminals. Like, how does he actually manage to whitewash all that? And how does, you know, his brother's running around committing murders. Right. While all this is going on. And nobody is, nobody, I, again, I, like the movie, I could have used 30 minutes.
Vic00:59:29You know what that's like? Well, it's like the Bulgers. Whitey Bulger and his brother. Happens all the time in America, son. In America. Wake up, sheeple. Where, where, where does the backup car come from? We didn't see that, right? So, I mean, he drives away with the getaway car, and then they come in. Well, they're dropped off, right?
JVL00:59:45They're dropped off originally by a minivan or whatever, and then they have the other van. They have two cars at the beginning.
Vic00:59:52Oh, okay, okay, okay, fine.
JVL00:59:54I actually love the way in which he was killed. So this guy who's like a shark who is, you know, like the baddest of the badasses in the movies, killed in a totally pedestrian, like just trafficking, you know, because the truth is when cars crash, it isn't like it is in the movies. Like if you crash really badly. Mission Impossible style.
Vic01:00:11Right. Like in Ronin or something like that.
JVL01:00:13You don't just keep driving and flip it around. You triple flip, crawl out, and keep running.
Vic01:00:17I think Tom Cruise did that in one of the more recent Mission Impossible. It was in the desert, and then he crashes, and then he runs and gets on a motorcycle. Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe that we are at cross purposes on this movie. That's okay.
JVL01:00:29Best pictures for me so far this year. Wow.
Vic01:00:33On the back end of my top 10. It might bear repeated viewing for me. I mean, the first time I saw Goodfellas, I thought it was good. I didn't think it was great. You know, and maybe I'll see it again. It'll change my mind. We need to move on to Thanksgiving.
Sonny01:00:44We need to wrap up. Okay.
Vic01:00:45We don't have time for Thanksgiving. Well, listen, everybody, happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Enjoy your green bean casserole. Yes. This will be nice for their nice hour. And then you just hit on a loop and then you can play it again. Okay, because you can't get enough of this. A podcast that bears repeated viewing and listening to. Really quickly, Spirit of the Week. JVL, you brought it in. But this is from Stephen. And this is from Stephen Phillippe. This is a Captain Morgan 1671. It is delicious and sweet. I had some of it at your party on the rocks. I'm drinking it here neat. And it is something to be enjoyed and savored.
JVL01:01:21Sonny, what did you say about it? You said it.
Sonny01:01:23Well, you opened it up and you poured it. And I said it smells like college. That's a good thing.
Vic01:01:29Okay. That is all the time we're giving to this episode then. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments. Tweet us at Victorino Mattis, Sonny Bunch. At JV Last. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes, Google Play. Just type in substated under podcasts. We're there. Leave a review. Tell your friends. Until next time.
Sonny01:02:02Any outtakes?
Vic01:02:03Thanksgiving thoughts?
JVL01:02:05So you're here, Sonny? You're not traveling?
Vic01:02:08Yeah, we'll be here.
JVL01:02:09Victorino, you are traveling.
Vic01:02:10I am traveling, and I'll be up in New Jersey. My niece is insisting that every guest at Thanksgiving take part in a talent show.
JVL01:02:22Ooh.
Vic01:02:22Yeah, so you do things. This is why I don't go places. Yeah, you could do playing piano, singing, whatever it is. You're juggling whatever it is. I'm going to do push-ups. I'm going to say I could do more push-ups than anybody in this house, which is pretty easy. unless maybe my sister can beat me to it and that's my talent will be push-ups that's all I got right now
JVL01:02:40but you play the piano
Vic01:02:41and sing I do but somebody else is going to do piano I don't want to have to do that there's nothing you can't do I was going to try to do Bach's Invention of F it's true but I can't get it together
JVL01:02:50so how many push-ups can you do if I just said drop and start doing push-ups
Vic01:02:53on the spot maybe 50 in a row in a row I think 50 push-ups yeah it depends
JVL01:02:59that is it depends that's a lot of push-ups
Vic01:03:02that's good it's fine
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