← all The Weekly Substandard episodes
#131. The Substandard on LeBron
Listen to this episode ↗on Substack, where the show lives now
Dudes Chatting — LeBron James to the Lakers: Micro-episode. LeBron has signed with the LA Lakers, four years/$153.3M. JVL frames LeBron's entire career through pro wrestling: the original Cleveland heel turn was one of sport's greatest, the return was an epic face turn, and now the post-sweep flight to LA is the ultimate heel move — except, as Sonny notes, it might be more like the NWO, where the "heels" become the crowd favorites. Sonny, as a Showtime Lakers fan, is thrilled; his wife is already posting GIFs. LeBron's motivations: Hollywood branding and less finals pressure in the Western Conference. GOAT debate: JVL argues Jordan won with genuinely inferior pieces (Luke Longley has championship rings; Judd Buechler exists) in a way LeBron has not matched. Sonny's sentimental favorite remains the early-aughts Kobe/Shaq Lakers — pure brute force basketball. JVL notes he stopped following the NBA the day the Sixers traded Allen Iverson ("The Bitter End," per the Inquirer's front page) and has not come back.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00LeBron, what's your decision? In this fall, man, this is very tough. In this fall, I'm going to take my talents.
Vic00:00:14Hello, and welcome to another micro-episode of The Substandard, sponsored by The Black Tux. The Black Tux is the easy way for guys to rent suits and tuxedos online. To get $20 off your purchase, visit TheBlackTux.com slash substandard. That's TheBlackTux.com slash substandard for $20 off your purchase. The Black Tux, premium rental suits and tuxedos delivered. I'm Victor Matus, along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last. Just a quick reminder, full episodes of The Substandard are available every Thursday around 11 a.m. So, on Sunday, it was announced that LeBron James is leaving the Cleveland Cavaliers to join the Los Angeles Lakers. In a four-year... It's pronounced Angelus. Angelis. I believe it's Angelis. In a four-year, $153.3 million deal. Your thoughts, JVL?
JVL00:01:07I like to view LeBron as the foremost practitioner of professional wrestling tropes within basketball. So, I view... More so than Kobe? More so. More so than Kobe. Way more so than Kobe. Because Kobe broke kayfabe when they had that unfortunate... Incident. And so, I believe that you can view LeBron's entire career as if he is a professional wrestler, where you had him going to Cleveland, and then the dramatic... Which is the heel turn. The heel turn. Which is one of the greatest heel turns in all of professional sports.
Sonny00:01:48I mean, it's straight up like kicking Marty Jannetty through the glass, or like... Or like Hulk Hogan showing up at...
JVL00:01:54Or Paul Orndorff pile driving... Sergeant Slaughter. Right. All of these things. But, and it's then followed by the kayfabe owner of the Cavaliers putting out the giant screed manifesto... In Comic Sans. Which he published in Comic Sans, right? However, however, only a few years later, he returns. And again, you could see all of this as it was a secret deal made... By him before he left, the idea being they should get really crappy and stockpiled draft picks, and that he would be back in just a few years, and the whole thing was mapped out by the WWE slash NBA writers' room. And that this is now the final turn.
Sonny00:02:41The Adam Silver run. Right. Writers' room.
JVL00:02:43The Adam Silver writers' room. And that this is the final turn, right? So he had gone face, heel, face with his return to Cleveland. And now, this is his final way to get heat. Right. So he's got to generate more heat. All the attention is really with Golden State and Steph Curry. And the way to generate more heat is not just to leave Cleveland again. But of all places. After losing, after getting blown out and swept in the finals, and to then leave them for Los Angeles. It's perfect.
Sonny00:03:13Sonny, are you excited to have him? But this is also, well, we'll get to me in a second. This is also, though, like very much, if we're going to run with the wrestling analogy, I would say. I would say that this has the chance of being an NWO-like heel turn, where everybody actually really loved the NWO, and everyone was cheering for them. That could happen. And they tried to make these guys bad guys, but actually everyone kind of was into it. Totally. I think that's exactly what's happening. That's true. As a longtime Los Angeles Lakers fan, I'm extremely excited about this.
JVL00:03:45Do you love the Lakers more than you love the Packers?
Sonny00:03:48No. No, I'm definitely the Packers. Well, because I just like football more than basketball. But I like the Orioles more than all three of them.
JVL00:03:56That makes a ton of sense.
Sonny00:03:59Growing up as a military child, you don't really have things like regional loyalty or hometown teams.
JVL00:04:06Whoever was really good when you were 11?
Sonny00:04:08No. Well, that's not exactly right. I was actually thinking about this, because I started rooting for the Orioles in the late 80s, which was, if you remember correctly, I think it was either- Bobby Alomar, right? No. No, that's like the early 90s. Oh, it's three. Once they moved to the Camden Yards, again, which happened in the early 90s, not in 1987 or whenever you thought it was. That's right. That was a major correction. There was the team that was coached by, I want to say it was coached by Cal Senior, but maybe it was after him, that went like 0-21 to start the season. I remember those guys. That's when I started watching the Orioles. You're like, those guys are the real hero of Major League Baseball. These guys are the best. I remember that.
JVL00:04:53I remember Newsweek was all over the streak, the winless streak. How long did they go?
Sonny00:04:56But anyway, as a longtime Los Angeles Lakers fan, you know, as a Showtime aficionado, and then the Kobe and Shaq concert teams. It was Kurt Rambus who made you fall in love with them, wasn't it? Kurt Rambus, one of the real greats.
JVL00:05:10The last guy to play not in rec specs, but in glasses, I think. That sounds about right. Is that right? I don't think anybody else ever played with actual glasses the way he did.
Sonny00:05:20No, my favorite thing about, my favorite thing about... LeBron going to Los Angeles is that he's going to be coached by Luke Walton, who was in his draft class, who was in, he was like the number 31 or 30 pick or something like that of that year, is actually going to be coaching LeBron for probably 20 games until he gets fired by LeBron, which will be sad because I like Luke Walton. But no, I'm extremely excited. I'm extremely excited. I'm really, I'm excited to not watch any games that start at 1030. Because I'm asleep by then. This has always been the problem of, my wife is a legitimate Los Angeles Lakers fan. She like grew up in Southern California and was like, you know. Is she jazzed about this? She's very excited. She was, she was tweeting gifts and everything.
JVL00:06:05Why is he going there? It's just so that he can enjoy the LA lifestyle?
Vic00:06:08Victorino, do you? I've heard, I've heard people talk about this, which is the branding part of LeBron Incorporated. The corporate stuff obviously is already there, but this is this other piece of the puzzle, as you say, it's the Hollywood piece of the, it's to turn LeBron into a Hollywood thing. And then what happens to him after he's no longer playing? I have a theory as to why he chose to do this.
Sonny00:06:33He's a great Marvel superhero. Arguably the best part of Trainwreck, LeBron James.
JVL00:06:37I believe that he has gotten so inside his head about losing in the NBA finals, that this way he can just lose in the Western Conference finals, and he doesn't have to worry about being embarrassed and about choking. There's less pressure. He's like, the pressure's off him now. Has anybody else, I am a lifelong LeBron hater. Has any other player considered as a possible GOAT? That's greatest of all time for people not familiar. As bad in the big moments? I mean, he's lost more times in the NBA finals than anybody who's ever been considered.
Sonny00:07:18What about like Wiltz?
JVL00:07:21I don't think Wiltz. He got to the finals all that many times, right? Because he only won. When he was with the Lakers, he won. But he only, I'll effort this.
Sonny00:07:30Look up how many times he actually won, because I feel like- Not very many. Right. Because he was getting owned by Russell.
JVL00:07:37Right, right, right. But on the other hand, well, I don't know.
Sonny00:07:42But the, I would say Wilt Chamberlain would be, I mean, what about like, what about, oh, who's the point guard? Oscar, what's his name?
JVL00:07:52The Big O, Oscar Robertson? How many times did he win? I don't think, but I don't think he lost in the finals all that many times.
Sonny00:07:58I mean, I would say, I mean, look, your greatest of all time is either Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, or not Kobe Bryant, LeBron James. And if you want to make an argument for the greatest of all time, I think that you have to look at actual championships won, and LeBron James has fewer championships. I mean, I know it's a team sport, et cetera, et cetera. But like, you know.
JVL00:08:20Let me, let me, because I do get a little tired of, the recency error, the recency bias on these arguments. Like, if you look at the teams Michael Jordan won championships with, they were Michael Jordan, Scotty Pippen, who's a very good player, but is not an all-time great player, and then a bunch of pieces of dog shit. I mean, you look at, like, Luke Longley is walking around with three championship rings at the starting center of a team.
Vic00:08:46And also a diplomatic envoy to North Korea.
Sonny00:08:50And Dennis Rodman. Dennis Rodman was, like, legit. He was a great basketball player.
JVL00:08:55Yeah, a freak role player. But for the most part, those teams, like Judd Bushler. I mean, these guys aren't even legit role players for the most part. They're just weird spare pieces, island of misfit toys. And Jordan was able to plug them into holes.
Sonny00:09:11Hold off and just let him do his thing. No, my favorite, I mean, look, as a long-time Lakers fan, my favorite NBA team has always been that, like, early aughts Lakers team. Michael Thompson. Uh, uh, no, that's... Oh, oh, I thought you meant a shot time. No, no, not early 80s. Not even early 90s when, like, Magic was on his last legs. Uh, uh, but the, but, like, the early aughts team that was, like, Kobe and Shaq, and Shaq was just, like, dunking on everyone all game. And it was so much fun to watch, because people would literally just, like, grab onto his arms and try to hold him down.
JVL00:09:44He was holding them on anyway.
Sonny00:09:46Right.
JVL00:09:47It was one of the, it's one of the... And one smash.
Sonny00:09:48It's one of, like, the most impressive athletic feats that actually involved the least amount of athleticism. Just, like, pure brutes. It was like watching a World's Strongest Man competition, but on a basketball court. Uh, but also, that team had, uh, uh, like, Robert Ory, who would just, like... Big Shot Bob. Big Shot Bob. I mean, he's just the best. Like, I, I would, I, I could watch those, those guys play all, all. And Derek Fisher.
JVL00:10:12So you like them better than the Showtime Lakers? Well, I, but I mean... Because the Showtime Lakers... But the Showtime Lakers...
Sonny00:10:17James Worthy.
JVL00:10:18I mean, the problem with the Showtime Lakers... James Worthy was their third best player.
Sonny00:10:21I mean, the problem... The problem with the Showtime Lakers is I never really watched them live. I mean, I, like, I would, I've, I've seen all the highlights. I mean, I, I was, like, when, when Magic came to the team, I was negative three years old. Vic and I were in college back when the Showtime Lakers were. I was negative two years old when, when Magic went to the, the Lakers. And, uh, and when he retired, I think it was eight or nine. So I, like, I don't really remember any of that.
JVL00:10:44The genius, for me as a kid when I was watching, I don't know, you didn't watch a ton of NBA growing up, did you, Vic? No, I did not. Is watching a team that had the unbelievable athleticism. Of Magic, Worthy, and Kareem. And then again, Kurt Rambis coming in off the bench. And it just, like, all of the, the dissonance there, I just thought was classic.
Sonny00:11:02As, as a Sixers fan, are you a little, are you worried that they're going to give up three picks for Kawhi Leonard?
JVL00:11:09You know, if I followed the NBA at all anymore, I would probably be terrified by it. But I, this is totally true. I, when the Sixers traded Iverson, which is still hanging by the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer. When that happened, which, which is a picture of answer with a giant block headline, The Bitter End. On that day, I essentially turned my back on the NBA and I never came back. But you followed Turkey, Turkish basketball very carefully.
Vic00:11:39I'm sure it's fine.
Spot something wrong in this episode? Suggest a correction →
Comments
Loading…