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#127. The Substandard on Ocean's 8 and Gender Flipping
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Dudes Chatting — Ocean's 8 and the gender-flip question: Vic does his "Gene" impression reviewing Ocean's 8: four stars, a cascade of cast-name puns, "like a jewel heist meets Sister Act." The real reviews: Sonny loved it — pure entertainment, unlike the Ghostbusters reboot it actually feels like an Ocean's movie, and Anne Hathaway's meta performance (playing celebrity vapidity as commentary on "Hathahaters") is surprisingly funny. JVL gives it 2.5 stars: five of the eight are underwritten (Mindy Kaling has nothing to do, Rihanna is a terrible actress), Elliot Gould looks very old, and the movie misses Soderbergh-level direction. Vic liked it; notes Sandra Bullock is an Arlington girl. Gender-flip conversation follows: the group casts a hypothetical Magic Michelle (Bullock as McConaughey, Gal Gadot as Tatum) and debates which remakes work — JVL argues the best remakes (Scarface, Casino Royale, The Thomas Crown Affair, Mission: Impossible) find a new angle rather than just swapping demographics. The A Star Is Born trailer gets a brief appreciative mention. Weekend chat: JVL's son Flash won the Little League championship 12-0-1, hit an inside-the-park home run, then threw six strikeouts in two innings of closing relief; Vic's daughter's tap recital required a two-hour wait for a four-minute routine; Sonny discovered that Harris Teeter ribeyes at $8.99 beat the New York strips he was planning to grill.
Box Office: Ocean's 8 opened $41.5M; Solo $15M; Deadpool 2 $13.6M.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00-Sorry. -It's okay. In three and a half weeks, The Met will be hosting its annual ball. And we are going to rob it. Not the ball itself. On the neck of Daphne Kluger. Valued at over a hundred million dollars. -150 million, actually. -Actually.
Vic00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another edition of The Substandard, sponsored by the Black Tux. I'm Victor Matus, along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last. I'd like to remind you, The Substandard is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. Just look at our podcast and search for "substandard." You'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a review. Gentlemen, how are we? JVL, what's going on?
JVL00:00:52Big weekend. Big weekend. We had the, uh, the championship game for the... "Championship of the World" for Little League.
Vic00:01:02Question. Yes. Is this, uh, what they call "Babe Ruth," or is it not?
JVL00:01:06No. I don't know what "Babe Ruth" is, but this isn't that. Okay. I know, like, "Babe Ruth" is this thing out there.
Vic00:01:11Yes, that's like an Arlington is "Babe Ruth."
JVL00:01:13This is, this is Little League, which is a, its own universe. And, uh, the boys won, completed their undefeated season. Undefeated season. 12-0-1. Uh, Flash in his first at-bat. Flashman. Flashman, in his first at-bat, hit a towering home run. His first home run ever.
Sonny00:01:34You said it's a video of that, and I didn't reply to it, 'cause I wanted to save it for the show. What was that kind of high-pitched wailing? That was so, I was not allowed.
JVL00:01:41That was a ululation. I thought that was like, "No, no, no, no, no!" That, I was not allowed to take video, 'cause I was coaching first. And, uh, that was my wife, who was doing this with the little, the little Flash strapped to her. And with the, the other two girls, like, hanging off the chain link fence, and it went crazy. And, uh, he was, uh, ecstatic, as you might've, this is his first career home run, and he, he jacked this ball. It was 250 feet in the air, and, uh. How far is the fence? So, it was to dead center, and so it hit the fence, and it stayed in the park. But still. It was still a home run. It was an inside the park home run. It was an inside the park home run. He was crossing third before their center fielder got, they were playing him so shallow, it was ridiculous. I, uh. They didn't know. When he came up, and I just looked at it, and I just thought, I would see this other team not. I, I don't want to say anything, I would've managed this other team differently. Oh.
Sonny00:02:37We'll just leave it that way. Oh. Uh. Is this why your wife is getting into fights with people? On the, on the, in the, in the stores? Did you see this on Twitter? No. She was saying, she was saying that somebody had, uh, kind of given her the cold shoulder when she said who she was the mother of. I didn't see this. Oh. Maybe we can delete this.
Vic00:02:54I don't know. Well, as, uh. I don't know. I don't know. That was a real reaction just there.
JVL00:02:59I'm standing at first base as Jack's the flashman. Flashman. Oh, write that down. I'm gonna have to bleep that as he jacks it. And he comes streaking around first and I am ten feet away from the opposing team's dugout and the three coaches are standing there and the head coach said to the other one, Soto Voce, who is this kid? Just kidding. Nobody. He just appeared fully formed. Like Athena. Yeah. From Zeus's head. And so it was a five inning game. This was always the plan. Five inning game. Or he's like Robert Redford in the natural. Flash came in in relief, pitched a two inning close, struck out six, walked one. The final three outs, all three batters struck out looking because he was throwing such gas. So it was, so for the first three, in the first inning he pitched, the other coaches were telling their kids, you know, screaming from the sideline. "Just start swinging early. Just swing as soon as he reaches back. Don't wait. Just start swinging early." And then after that they're like, "Don't swing. Don't swing. Maybe he'll walk you. Don't even try putting him out of the ball. Just maybe he'll get wild and he'll walk you." And it was dominant and it was awesome.
Vic00:04:16What's the, congratulations by the way, what is the next step? Is there a camp to go to?
Sonny00:04:23Is there like a baseball academy for scouts?
JVL00:04:27Academies? Yes. No. They don't have those, I don't think. He heads off to baseball camp up in Jersey for the summer, for a few weeks. Comes back, has pitching, has a baseball camp down here as well with the minor league team. Wow. How great is this? The minor league players run baseball camp during the morning and then you come and watch them at night. Oh, that's fun. That's very good. That's fun. And has a pitching camp that he'll be at once or twice a week all through the summer in addition to the work we do, obviously, at home. So he's full on? Yeah. No, he's basically ready to give up everything in his life to do this. That is like my son except for it hits with Xbox.
Sonny00:05:09So go ahead, Sonny. When do you introduce him to the PEDs? When do you start him on a regimen of, quote, vitamins? Vitamins? The vitamins. End quote. Do you mean last March? Oh.
JVL00:05:21Is that what you're asking me? So I had him out. So sometimes, he really is sort of a phenom. We were out doing ground ball drills, and every once in a while, I like mixing in. I throw a wicked spin on it so it takes a weird hop to surprise him. And one of these balls hit a knot in our yard and took a 45-degree bounce. And he had already gone down on one knee to trap the way you're supposed to when you get in front of the ball, and the ball bounced behind him to his right. He reached around his back and speared him. Just speared it out of the air with his glove. It was one of the craziest things I have ever seen. And he just popped up, and then from his knees made the throw to me, playing imaginary first
Sonny00:06:09base. No big deal. No big deal. So how was your weekend, Sonny?
JVL00:06:13Flash. Flash.
Sonny00:06:15Flash is so great. It was fine. I didn't have any great baseball stories or anything. Anything new in your life? No. Not really. Anything you'd like to share with the class? No.
JVL00:06:25Nothing with the class. I don't like the class. The parades are fine, but the class you don't like?
Sonny00:06:30The parades are great. Parades, as we discussed several days ago during the mini-episode before we reconvened here on Thursday morning. The idea of... Have you ever been to a... Question.
JVL00:06:41Yes. Have you ever been to a parade? No, but I assume they're lovely. Question. Yes. What would it take? What would you have to be offered as compensation to go to a parade? So, if it was... Let's pretend it's Tuesday morning and there's a capitals parade, and I appear at the office of the Washington Free Beacon and I say, "Sonny, I am here to get you to go to the capitals parade this morning. All we have to do is find your price point." Sure. What do I need to give you to get you to go there? What would that have been? Counter-question.
Sonny00:07:14What does this actually involve me doing? What would I actually have to do with the parade? Where would I have to stand? Would I have to... Could I stand on the road? And watch it go by? Do I have to fight to get to the front? Can I just meander around?
JVL00:07:31You would have to have the median parade experience. I don't know what that means, though. You would not have to be the guy all the way at the very front, but you couldn't be the guy all the way... You'd have to leave the Free Beacon offices and take, I don't know, the metro or a bus or something, go over to DC on the mall and walk through all the people. I don't know what people do at parades, but you'd have to do that. What did we do? Would $40 have been enough?
?00:07:56Oh, no. No.
JVL00:07:58No. Would $40, the price of grill assembly, been enough?
Sonny00:08:02No. Absolutely not. We're talking...
JVL00:08:05Would $100 have been enough?
Sonny00:08:08We're talking mid three figures, possibly low four figures. So if you came to me and you said, "Sonny, here's five $100 bills. You just have to go to the parade." Because also this involves me leaving... Here's what I don't understand. Question.
JVL00:08:24... what people do. Question. That they can just leave their work. Question. Yes. If I said, "I would give you a brand new Weber Genesis if you go to the parade."
Sonny00:08:33Well, I don't need that. I've already got a perfectly good one. I would say no. I would say absolutely no to that. I don't need that.
?00:08:41No.
Sonny00:08:42I used it the other day. It was great.
Vic00:08:45Thank you.
Sonny00:08:46I would say the bottom price point on something like this would be $500. Honestly, you might have to get up to $1,000 to get me to go.
JVL00:08:57The parades are great. "Vick, how was your weekend?" My weekend was great.
Sonny00:09:01I actually did cook a steak.
JVL00:09:03Did you use meat rays? I did. I texted you guys when I had steak on the grill. New York strips. I said, "Look at my meat rays."
Vic00:09:09They look so sad in the dark. You were cooking two little patties. I didn't really see anything. I said, "No wonder your wife no longer eats meat. They look terrible."
?00:09:15Wow.
JVL00:09:16Anyway.
Vic00:09:17That got strangely personal. Sorry. Quickly. Just look at that. Okay. Yeah. No. I'm from Whole Foods. I really need to get the Whole Foods credit card, because that's the Amazon credit card. Yeah.
Sonny00:09:30Well, just get the Amazon credit card. That's what I mean. I got an Amazon credit card last year, and I've already racked up $400 in free money. It's just like you just make money. You just make money by spending money. It's great.
JVL00:09:40You would.
Sonny00:09:41Yes. Can I just interject briefly? Please. I went to a Harris Teeter to buy meat for the first time. Yeah. Recently. Okay. I was shocked at A, how cheap it was, and B, how good it was.
Vic00:09:51Okay. Yes.
Sonny00:09:53I'm not going to say Whole Foods, which is good, but expensive, or Giant, or whatever, which is expensive and bad. Or a butcher shop. Or a butcher shop, which is expensive and hit or miss, frankly. I am not totally sold on the butcher shop experience, but I went to Harris Teeter, and I got a one pound, probably solid inch and a half, two inch steak, ribeye, $8.99. It was only half turning gross. Half turning gray. No. It was really- Marked for quick sale. It was easy. It was tasty. It was easy to cook. I loved it. It was actually one of the best steaks I've had.
Vic00:10:33Question. Did you buy the steak that was behind the glass, or the wrapped ones on the side? Behind the glass.
Sonny00:10:39Oh, good. Good.
Vic00:10:41Good. That's what I'm talking about. That is actually very good.
Sonny00:10:44Yeah, yeah. Those are good meats.
Vic00:10:46I was shocked.
Sonny00:10:47What's the difference? I was shocked. Well, the ones that are wrapped, they've been out for a while.
Vic00:10:50Unclear. Are they priced differently? Yes. I believe they're priced differently, and I think there's some prime behind the glass versus the one that's in the Styrofoam pad sitting there. It's wrapped in the saran. But I've had that, too. Kate does not like that. Harris, you'll eat anything. What are you ... I will. Big knuckles. I will. I will.
Sonny00:11:12I will. But Kate, she's very picky.
Vic00:11:14So anyway, Harris Teeter. Obviously. I had a great Harris Teeter. Obviously. Obviously. Only choice. Yeah. Saturday night, my daughter had her tap recital. And as I mentioned on Twitter, or Facebook, whatever it was, oh the joys of waiting for an hour plus. It's really a two hour experience for a daughter's four hour, four minute tap routine in the middle of this whole thing. And it's really interesting. They range in age from probably three ... I mean, they're like little kids that come with the tiny ballerinas come out, right up to, I guess, high school, or a little bit more than that. I'm not looking at you. There are, let's see, ballet, and tap, and jazz, modern, and interpretive. And some of the women do the interpretive dance. I'm not a big fan of that. Interesting observation. There were actually about four or five boys in the recital. Now here's my observation. This is the part where I'm waiting for Jonathan to say, "Careful." My observation is this, okay, you could always tell, I've thought about this. JVL, I've been thinking about how to phrase this, so I'm going to be good. Don't get nervous. Don't get nervous. You can always tell that there are girls in a show that don't want to be there, right? They hate being there. Not my daughter. She can't stop practicing. It's still over, and she's still doing the routine. But there are girls, there's usually too much space between them and the rest of the girls, and there are a couple of seconds, a couple of beats behind, and they're just going through the motions. I would say every boy that was there definitely wanted to be there. It was not like, "Oh. Oh. My mom made me do, or my dad made me do this tap routine." No. They were in it. They got passion. They got passion. That's all I'm going to say. Walter Payton, he did some ballet. Patrick Swayze. I'm not sure where you're going with this question. No. That's all I wanted to point out. Question. Yes. Yes. It was interesting, but it's so long. And waiting in the parking lot, it was a total sort of bottleneck because no one's listening. Everyone wants out, and so everybody who was really friendly, and, "Oh, yeah. Everyone did great. Great show." By the time they got in the parking lot and the line, after about 10 minutes, I said to my wife, "Let's see how long civility lasts," and sure enough, by 15 minutes, there's a guy with his window down yelling at another car, saying, "Wait! Wait!" To let him out. "Let me out of here."
JVL00:13:40Was the program organized from youngest to oldest? No. It was crazy.
Vic00:13:46So it was like completely sort of like you don't know what the next act is going to be.
JVL00:13:50So you don't- You don't know what you might potentially miss.
Vic00:13:53That's right.
JVL00:13:54That's right.
Vic00:13:55You were glued to your seat the whole time. You could tell who the parents of certain kids were, because as soon as one act is over, a bunch of people would just leave. But you still got away. Did you guys leave after that? No. I stayed for the whole thing. I stayed.
JVL00:14:09In fact, I was separated. Why? Kate and the kids left. But you were like, "You know what? Look. Out of respect for the dancers.
Vic00:14:15Out of respect for the dance." Yes. The dance. "I'm going to stay just to take it all in." The arts. I like to celebrate the arts. It's funny. I was actually separated from them, because it was like three tickets. Two were together.
JVL00:14:25And all of a sudden, I was in the dressing room.
Vic00:14:26Two were together, and then one was separate. So I said, "Fine. My son and Kate, they can be together. That's fine." On one side. And I'm all the way in the back. And Kate said, "Are you-" You're all the way in the back? In the back. Ropee. And she said, "Are you sure you'll be okay here?" I said, "Yeah."
?00:14:41I said, "I'm fine.
JVL00:14:42I got my trench coat." You didn't try slipping the usher at 20. Like, "Hey, can you get us together here, please?"
Vic00:14:47I sat next to some grandma. And anyway, it was fun. I mean, you got to do it. I mean, I think, Sonny, you said you've been through this. I don't know if you've had to do this with your sister, but you have to go through these research. I did this as a kid, and it felt like four hours long to get to a sister's-
JVL00:15:03Well, you were the younger brother. I was. So that was the worst. You're the older sister's- Oh, it was terrible. Yeah. When my girls were doing gymnastics, you would go to the parents' waiting room, and you'd see the younger brothers sitting there, and it's like they were in jail.
Vic00:15:17Yeah. Yeah. I told my son, "Oh, by the way." He said, "We enrolled you for next year's dance class," and he started freaking out, but we were kidding. Anyway, but my daughter, not to be obviously unbiased, but I thought she was ... She really likes doing this. She enjoys tap, and she's in the front so the other girls can follow her routine, because she really has it down in terms of the beats and the rhythms for tap, and she's pounded away, and she's actually singing the song, and I just thought she had a really ... She got a lot of applause. I thought she had a great, spectacular performance. Speaking of spectacular performances, over the weekend, Ocean's 8 took the top spot at the box office with 41 and a half B-minus. B-minus. I'll take it.
Sonny00:16:04You struggled to get to it. I did. I blew it off.
JVL00:16:07I knew I could tell what you were doing. You also ... It was generic. I thought you were going to say, "Speaking of gender flips," when you were back there about three minutes ago. No, no, no.
Sonny00:16:16It's okay now. When you were talking about your son doing it, that would have been ... You're flipping the script. You're flipping the gender script.
Vic00:16:21I stick to the script. Not that there is a script. At the box office, Ocean's 8 did 41 and a half million dollars, followed by Solo: A Star Wars Story, still going strong with 15 million, and Deadpool 2, on its heels, with 13.6 million. Do we have box office thoughts on this? Can we discuss just briefly-
JVL00:16:38What's happening? Do you like that guy I sent you a couple days ago? Oh, yeah.
Sonny00:16:43We talked about that last week, didn't we?
JVL00:16:44No, I sent you another one. Some guy on Twitter was like, "Yeah?
Sonny00:16:48Failure? The Last Jedi made 600 million dollars!" Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the DVD and Blu-ray numbers are out for the first two weeks, I think, actually, of Blu-ray sales. But anyway, are out for The Last Jedi, 50% under the first week numbers of The Force
JVL00:17:10Awakens. Mm-hmm. That's just because they opened Solo six months earlier than they should have. It's just because of timing. Mm-hmm, yeah. That's all it is.
Sonny00:17:19No, I mean...
JVL00:17:20The numbers would have been double if they'd waited another 60% or something.
Sonny00:17:25I'm sure Disney is thrilled. Just thrilled with this. Anyway, that's all I have.
JVL00:17:30William Kennedy. Doesn't matter. She's not going anywhere.
Vic00:17:33Does she hear the footsteps? She's not going anywhere. She's not going anywhere. So, did we all see Ocean's 8?
?00:17:38I saw it.
Sonny00:17:41All three of us. Yay!
JVL00:17:44I saw it. Did anyone else see it? Maybe. Yes! It's been, like, two months. It's been a while. It hasn't been two months. It's been two months. Nah. Okay.
Vic00:17:55Look who's here. Hello, boys. As you know, I was in Rome for a week, and did I tell you? Harvey Fierstein just walked in, everyone. Yes. Sorry. Sorry, Gene. I'm sorry. How dare you? How dare you question my life? It's been a while. And I was in Rome for a week. And, in fact, did I mention I saw a priest in a wheelchair? This is true. Talk about a holy roller. Oceans 8 has a sea of talent. Sandra Bullock performs with gravity. Cate Blanchett is a queen on screen. I love Sarah Paulson, guilty as charged. Rihanna is unapologetic about playing the good girl gone bad. Anne Hathaway creates havoc on the set, but maybe my favorite was Mindy Kaling, not to curry favor. Oceans 8 is like a jewel heist meets Sister Act, or is it Scissor Act? This movie was a rollicking good time, I give it 4 stars, you can tell these women really
Sonny00:19:18bonded, speaking of which, they could all be Bond girls, talk about pussy galore. bonded, speaking of which, they could all be Bond girls, talk about pussy galore. bonded, speaking of which, they could all be Bond girls, talk about pussy galore. I don't want to give away too much because part of the joy of this film and these films is, you know, finding out what is happening as you're going, but it is an entertaining, all-encompassing, all-female team of criminals that is trying to steal a bunch of diamonds on a Cartier necklace at the Met Gala. And that, and like, there's like, it's just, it is set up in a very kind of straightforward way. It's a little bit twisty. It's a little bit turning. They've got one big twist at the end. It's nice. I liked all the actresses. I think they have great charisma. It, again, feels like an Ocean's movie. And this is the big difference between this movie and the Ghostbusters reboot. The Ghostbusters reboot felt nothing like the Ghostbusters. The Ghostbusters reboot, the director went out of his way to kind of antagonize people who were skeptical of the idea that they were, they were going to try and do this gender flip to Ghostbusters thing. This is just, it's, it's just pure entertainment and fun. I kind of loved it. I had a really good time at the theater. I, everyone in my, in, in, in the house was laughing. It was, it was surprisingly funny, but, but not surprisingly funny. Because again, the Ocean's movies have always been pretty funny in a subtle kind of chuckle humor sort of way. Not like a, you know. You know, Melissa McCarthy, you know, gross-out humor sort of way. It was, it's, it's, it's a fun movie. I had a great time, and I am glad that it has done relatively well at the box office.
Vic00:22:28I think it's done very well, and I think it's kind of the movie that people needed to see. But you know, I was going to say, I loved, I love Sandra Bullock. I know Jonathan's a fan as well. Local girl from Arlington, went to Washington Lee High School, down the road from me. She's great in everything she does. I even liked her, I even liked her in The Proposal, which is the movie with Ryan Reynolds, where she has to marry Ryan Reynolds, but the wedding is in Alaska. Speaking of weddings, wedding season is upon us. You're going to be doing it big and going out to all of your buddies' weddings. When you're bringing a date, you want to look fresh, but it has to be convenient. That's where TheBlackTux.com comes in. The Black Tux has awesome suits and tuxedos in all kinds of styles, and you rent them online. I wore the Wrigley gray suit. It was great. It fit me to a tee. Plus, you get free socks. The Black Tux offers the kind of suits and tuxedo styles that would normally be wildly expensive to buy, and you might only wear it once, like the emerald shawl tuxedo. It's funky. It's cool. But how many times are you going to wear an emerald green tuxedo? With The Black Tux, you can do you and blow it out for your big one-time event. So try out a new look. Try to do something different and take your style to the next level. With The Black Tux free home try-on, you can see the fit and feel the quality of your suit months before your event. After ordering, your suit will arrive 14 days before your event. If anything is less than perfect, The Black Tux will send you a replacement right away. And remember how simple returns are. Wear it. Turn heads. Then send it back three days after your event. Shipping is free both ways. Stand out at your event for the right reasons with The Black Tux. To get $20 off your purchase, visit TheBlackTux.com slash substandard. That's TheBlackTux.com slash substandard for $20 off your purchase. The Black Tux, premium rental suits and tuxedo.
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JVL00:28:16And those are the types of things where the only reason they exist is to try to like ape the sensibility of the Soderbergh versions.
Sonny00:28:25Again, and I don't mean to be a killjoy here. I do kind of appreciate that again, because the big problem with the Ghostbusters movie wasn't necessarily the female cast. It said it felt nothing like a Harold Ramis, Ivan Reitman movie. It felt like a generic action comedy.
Vic00:28:46Who directed Ghostbusters, Lady Ghostbusters?
Sonny00:28:48Paul Feig, who has done many good things, but this was not one of them. Anyway, I'm sorry.
JVL00:28:55Elliot Gould, I was a little bit depressed by how old he looked and not well. I mean, he is now 80.
Sonny00:29:02He's old.
JVL00:29:03And he is my favorite thing about the Steven Soderbergh Oceans 11 movies. Elliot, the business he does in those movies. For me, is the best stuff in all of them.
Vic00:29:20His heyday was the 70s. Yeah, he was in his mid-30s.
JVL00:29:23He was playing the Marlowe character in his 70s. Yeah, no, I love the stuff he did in the other ones, and it made me a little sad to see him so old. But I was happy to see him in it, and I liked the shtick about, is Danny really dead? Not even anybody there believes he's dead, but maybe they're a little worried that he's dead. I was very curious as to what watch it was. Oh, sure.
Sonny00:29:46Of course you were.
Vic00:29:47At the very end, when she's back at the mausoleum, were you expecting him to show up? Because I was.
Sonny00:29:53I was, and I'm torn on whether or not... Here's kind of what I would have liked, is for them to have it both ways, where she does her little cocktail thing on the bench, and then she's saying goodbye to him, and then you shoot it so the camera is facing her, and she's drinking her drink, and then somebody puts a hand on her shoulder, right? And she smiles, and then you don't know who it is. Oh, I see. That would have been clever, but also a little bit much.
Vic00:30:18I thought you were going to say where she has a conversation with George Clooney, and then he's gone, and you realize that she was just imagining it, so he has cameo, but not really. I thought it was very artfully...
JVL00:30:29Oh my gosh. Yes! The way it was, actually. I thought it was fine. I thought the way it was executed was... I thought it was very artful. I went with Kate, she thought it was a great ending.
Sonny00:30:36I thought it was... I went with Beth. It's the first time we've gone to a movie theater movie in a while, and she had a great time. And I think this is part of what influenced my... Enjoyment of it. I think she really, really was into it. She was totally into it. Kate was totally into it. Sorry, JBL, we keep interrupting your review.
JVL00:30:54I really have anything else to say, except that I didn't like it all that much. I thought that it was underwritten. I mean, like, five of the Ocean's Eight girls... So Anne Hathaway's character is like a real character, and is written nicely. Kate Blanchard, we really have no idea what's going on with her, except that she gets by on just actorly style, and the fact that she clearly now spoke... smokes three packs a day. What happened to her voice? Oh, I think that's... I think she's doing that on purpose in this role, I think. Is she? Yeah. Okay, because that's...
Sonny00:31:23She doesn't sound anything like that in, like, Carol or other movies.
Vic00:31:27I was surprised when I went to IMDb... But she sounded like that in Thor. Mm-hmm. Again, I think she's, like, just doing a... Can do it, yeah. I thought she was older. I missed the antlers. You missed the antlers. I thought she... The goth antlers. I wish... I thought she was older than she was, so I figured... After watching this, in my mind, I was picturing her much older, and in fact, she was not that old. So... No, no, no. She's amazing.
JVL00:31:48Yeah, no. When we go to our casting later on...
Vic00:31:50Well, there's one outfit she wears in Oceans 8, and it's, like...
Sonny00:31:53She looks like a praying mantis. She's in that outfit. I think I know the one you're talking about. Yeah, a little bit. She's got these, like, kind of long, gangly... I mean, I think she's a very attractive woman, but, like, she's kind of set up as a...
JVL00:32:05Yeah, but, like, Rihanna is a terrible actress. Stop trying to make Rihanna happen. Rihanna is never going to happen.
Sonny00:32:11I agree with you generally, but I thought she was passable in this movie.
JVL00:32:15Yeah. The Awkwafina... I actually thought she was entertaining.
Vic00:32:20She is, but she reminds me of...
JVL00:32:22Mindy Kaling is given nothing to do.
Vic00:32:23She reminds me of Eric Harrison's obsession of Lil Tay. That's what she reminds me of.
JVL00:32:27I don't blame Mindy Kaling for this at all. I mean, just that part is written with nothing to it.
Sonny00:32:32Mindy Kaling was also very bad in A Wrinkle in Time. I don't know if you guys saw A Wrinkle in Time. I'm happy I did not see that movie. I'm, like, she is, like, kind of TV actress. She needs to do TV actress stuff.
Vic00:32:44Okay.
JVL00:32:44Hello, Bonham Carter.
Sonny00:32:46Helena Bonham Carter is fine. You're complaining that the roles are underwritten, and I can kind of see what you're saying. But, again, I don't think the actorly lineup is just simply not as strong as the Ocean's Eleven actor.
JVL00:32:58I mean, when Matt Damon is, like, your number five player. Right, right. It's crazy.
Sonny00:33:01Or, like, what's his name? Casey Affleck. Right, right. Has, like, a bit part. That's crazy. Would win a Best Actor Oscar. Later on would. Ten years later. It's just a different level of talent associated with the movies. But the biggest is the Gary Ross disparity. I largely agree with that. Can we? I have always been a, as the kids say, I've always been a Stan for Anne Hathaway. I think that she has been treated horribly by the Internet and the various terrible people out there. Well, what do you mean by that, Sonny? What are people saying? Well, people, like, I mean, this was a meme for a long time, kind of, on the Internet. There was a solid five-year stretch kind of centered around, like, leading up to when she won the Oscar and then, like, trailing off after she won it. The Oscar for Les Mis? For Les Mis. That she was a horrible person and that she was, like, a try-hard and she's, you know, one of the drama club kids who's always out there, you know, like a fake and a phony and a fraud. People would make fun of her hats. People would make fun of her clothes. I, like, I mean, literally just, like, five years of unrelenting crap dumped on her head. And I really appreciate the way that she kind of turned that and used it in this film. I thought this was a very metatextual performance from her. I think she is commenting on the way that everybody saw her and the way everybody reacted to her in this film. And I think it's, like, kind of brilliant. I think it's one of my favorite performances of the year so far. And I think the way that she has been treated is, like, the way everybody, I mean, she has been treated as badly as any of the Star Wars, you know, people who have been attacked by the toxic fans. And nobody ever talks about this. Nobody ever really says, like, oh, Anne Hathaway, you know, she got a raw deal. It's unfair. And I'm glad that she's so good in this movie. She's great in it. We wrote about this for the editor's blog. I called it Free Beacon. Hathahaters is what they're called. Hathahaters. And you got some fans. David Brooks, approved of my pro-Hathaway, anti-Hathahater.
Vic00:34:56What did he say? Stamped. Yes.
Sonny00:34:58I've got a lot of, I'm a very powerful person. You are. Twitter.
Vic00:35:01You know who I thought did not age well, again, but it was, they had one cameo, besides Elliot Gould, from Ocean's Eleven. And that is Xiaobo Qin. Spoiler. Oh, yeah. We said spoiler alert. No, we didn't. Oh, we didn't? Okay. But you know what's crazy? That's 17 years ago. Yeah. That's what's crazy. 17 years ago? What's happening?
JVL00:35:26Literally, there's a Hollywood.com story, like, why does everyone hate Anne Hathaway, and a New York Times story. Do we really hate Anne Hathaway? I mean, look, for all I know, she's a terrible human being. I don't know anything about her. But you are not wrong that she is probably the most gifted screen actress of her generation. I mean, there's nothing she can't do. Yeah. No, she is phenomenal.
Sonny00:35:49I would put, like, her and Amy Adams and Jennifer Lawrence are kind of competing in that top tier with each other. I mean, I think Amy Adams, you could make the same sort of case in terms of, like, working in different genres. I love Amy Adams.
JVL00:36:04I think she's great. I think Jennifer Lawrence is a very gifted actress as well. The gulf between numbers one and two on that list, though, is so wide that it's not even really. I just put them in separate categories. Anne Hathaway is the natural. Right? I mean, she is. There's no reason to believe that she will not, at age 70, be like Judi Dench or something.
Sonny00:36:28Or Meryl Streep. Yeah.
JVL00:36:29I mean, she's just, as an actress, she is tremendously great.
Sonny00:36:32I hope she doesn't get burned out by the haters. Haters need to back off.
Vic00:36:37Well, as the guy said in his T-shirt downstairs in the lobby, Sonny, haters gonna hate. Haters gonna hate. He saw his T-shirt. What do you think about James Corden? I thought he was great. In the theater, people loved it. I thought he was great.
Sonny00:36:48I had no idea who this was. I had no idea who James Corden was because I don't ever watch late night TV. And I never- I don't watch the show either, but- And he is never out there destroying people. So I don't see the YouTube clips. I don't think that's true. I think he does destroy people. Oh, does he destroy people? I think he does.
Vic00:37:04He's known mostly for the karaoke in the car. Car karaoke thing. That's his thing.
Sonny00:37:08Oh, that's him. Yes. Okay. And lip sync battles. Yeah, I know that. Does he do lip sync battles or something? In Curie? I don't know. Yes. But I thought he was good. I thought he was- Again, I actually thought that character was pretty well written.
JVL00:37:21You get the sense of his history, but they don't drive it home or anything. I thought he didn't quite land the way maybe a better actor might have. I mean, that is a Ricky Gervais character. It was written clearly for a Ricky Gervais type of Gordon that came to do his own- He could have easily fit that. That's true. It was fine. It was fine. There was not- I don't mean to say- I don't mean to sound like I'm down on this movie. I'm not. It's fine. You sound a little down on it. It's a two and a half star movie. Will you give me the two and a half stars, Sonny? Yeah. Yeah. Two and a half thumbs up, though. Not two and a half thumbs down, right? I don't even know what that means. Yeah. Did you want to talk about gender swapping and remakes?
Vic00:38:03Oh, before we get into that, I had a little- Before we get into that, because that's obviously what we're going to next, I found it slightly- I thought it was slightly problematic in terms of motivation. They're not the bad guy in this movie. I mean, there's the ex-boyfriend character. Okay, fine. But they're just stealing jewels from the royal family jewels. Whereas in Ocean's Eleven, there was a villain, right? They were taking Andy Garcia's money. Or in Ocean's Thirteen, they're taking Al Pacino's money. And in this one, they're just stealing for stealing's sake. Yeah? Or no? I mean, there's a little bit of payback.
Sonny00:38:44I thought it was nice that they do have the ex-character who is involved kind of tangentially in the plot. But whereas in Ocean's Eleven, it was the man trying to win the woman back. In this movie, it's the woman taking revenge on the scorned lover.
JVL00:39:00Were they lovers or partners?
Sonny00:39:01I couldn't quite tell. Both? I think they were both. Okay. Yeah. I sort of liked it more as a scorned business partner, not lover. I did not read the romantic. They were 100% lovers. I would be.
JVL00:39:14I didn't read that there, but that's okay. I would be happy.
Sonny00:39:17Maybe it was beneath the text. I would be. I don't think it was subtext. I think it was. There's a scene where they're literally in bed together, I think.
JVL00:39:24No, that's Anne Hathaway's in bed with him.
Vic00:39:26I would be happily framed by Anne Hathaway for that. That's fine with me. You'd take the prison. Yeah, I'd take the prison for it.
JVL00:39:31Just to get handcuffed to the. I'm sorry. I've heard of what, Vic? I can't. I lost my voice.
Vic00:39:36Okay. Let's talk about this gender flipping. Oh, Facebook Live.
JVL00:39:40Where have you gone? If you guys could have seen that.
Vic00:39:43Sonny, you had some fun. Gender flipping? What's going on here? What are you saying? What did you want to do?
Sonny00:39:48I mean, I was thinking, you know, in the interest of fairness. Well, JVL, do you have general thoughts on the trend of gender flipping these franchises?
JVL00:39:58I don't. I have general thoughts on remakes, though, which this isn't really. This does play more like a sequel than a remake. I mean, you sort of have both ways. Soft reboot. Soft reboot, I guess. The one deep thought I have is that the key to successfully remaking a movie is to remake a crappy movie. Like, nobody's ever remade Citizen Kane or Casablanca, because when you remake a really good movie, you're setting yourself up for failure. Casino Royale may be the greatest remake ever, because the original Casino Royale is garbage, right? You take a flawed property and then just make it really good. And that's why part of the reason I think there was such, like, people getting upset about going after Ghostbusters to remake. Because you don't need to remake it.
Sonny00:40:45It is a great and beloved movie.
JVL00:40:48You don't need to remake Citizen Kane. So go remake, go do a gender flip remake of, I don't know. Overboard. Overboard, right. No, but I mean, like, that's a perfect example.
Sonny00:41:00Weekend at Bernie's. Of a property that doesn't, they did a gender flip Overboard, remember? Yeah, on a Ferris. And it's like, it works, I guess, because no, I mean, like, my wife aside, nobody, like, really loves this movie or, like, cares about it. I, briefly on this, I do think, so, like, I think the solution here is the soft reboot, which is basically what The Force Awakens is, right? The Force Awakens is basically a soft reboot of the Star Wars movies. It, like, hits all the beats of the original. It reintroduces us to the characters. A lot, yeah. Gets rid of some, introduces new, yeah. I mean, it's like, that's essentially what it is. And I think if you would, if they had gone that route with the Ghostbusters remake, if they had had, like, the ladies are getting together. Because they were ex-students of the original scientists. And they wanted to restart this company because the paranormal threat has grown and is more blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, the original cast had been there kind of in a tertiary explanatory role, saying, like, oh, here's how you do this. Here's how you do that. And then you can even do, like, the Peter Venkman is a ghost thing, which had always been, like, the big rumor with Ghostbusters 3. Venkman, Bill Murray was like, I don't want to come back. I'm not doing it unless you make me a ghost. And they were trying to write it. That didn't work. But, like, if they had gone that route with it instead of the, like, here's lady scientists making queef jokes, like, that's, like... Does that have to be bleeped? I don't think so. I think that's just what it is. It's, like, that's what it was. I mean, like, they took a great movie and they made it generic and crappy. But if you had done the soft reboot where they're like, eh, maybe that works.
JVL00:42:41Toxic fans. Toxic fans. Toxic fans. Toxic fans.
Sonny00:42:44So, anyway, since we're doing, since, you know, gender flipping is all the rage, I think it's a little... Do you want to rank their remakes? No, I don't have one. I made a little... If you want to go for it, I don't have a...
Vic00:42:53Please, definitely. JVL, go.
JVL00:42:56Number four, Scarface. Number three, Casino Royale. Number two, Thomas Crown Affair. Number one, Mission Impossible.
Sonny00:43:04Okay.
JVL00:43:04That's kind of a weirdly random list. I'm a absorbent. You know what they are? Why? They're simply my favorite remakes. These are not the best. These are just JVL's favorites. Because I wanted to rank something.
Sonny00:43:14Ocean's 8 isn't a remake of Ocean's 11.
JVL00:43:18That's what we were talking about. It's a weirdness, but it was sold as a reboot, but it isn't, actually.
Vic00:43:27And you're talking about Al Pacino's Scarface over James Cagney's Scarface. Yes. Nice. And what was the top one on your list?
JVL00:43:34Mission Impossible. The remake of the TV show. So that counts for TV shows.
Vic00:43:39Got it. Okay.
JVL00:43:40There we go. And number one, the new number one, just mere... A few weeks from now. Ah, yeah. Will be A Star is Born. So you got the trailer. John Potterhurst is so...
Sonny00:43:51I think John has tweeted like 15 times about this already. John is so into it. You couldn't pay me to watch that movie, and I literally am paid to write about movies that I watch. It's going to be huge. Aren't you going to have to?
JVL00:44:02It's going to be huge.
Vic00:44:03No, I don't think I do, actually. It's going to make all the money. I don't think I have to. I think the people want to know what you think about it. So that is a remake of... Chris Christopherson's Barbra Streisand. Chris Christopherson's Barbra Streisand.
JVL00:44:12And who's the...
Sonny00:44:14I cannot imagine anything I would less rather watch.
Vic00:44:18You know, I forgot that they were doing the movie. It looks amazing.
JVL00:44:21When I saw the first part of the trailer, before we get to Lady Gaga, I want to watch it while I'm in a parade.
Sonny00:44:29On your phone?
JVL00:44:30Yeah. In portrait mode. In portrait mode.
Vic00:44:31I got kind of excited at first because I kept on thinking of Jeff Bridges' Crazy Heart, and I realized this has nothing to do with that, and this is... That's old. This is a Star is Born. Oh, wait a minute. Okay. All right.
JVL00:44:44We're talking about gender swap.
Vic00:44:45Yeah. Well, I think it's only fair. Are there any movies you'd like to see gender swapped? It's only fair...
Sonny00:44:48You had the thought on this. It's only fair that with the gender swapping, you know, the men out bringing in the ladies, we have to do... Men need a shot at this, too. So, I was thinking, you know, we take Magic Mike, we make it Magic Michelle. How would you guys cast a Magic Michelle? I know how Vic would cast it. I did Vic's casting. Oh, boo.
JVL00:45:11You can't step on my list.
Vic00:45:15But I have a question. Question. Yes. Is this a list of actresses or women we know personally?
Sonny00:45:22Never mind. We should not do this segment. I retract my idea.
Vic00:45:36And that moment was for premium subscribers.
Sonny00:45:39All right. So, go ahead.
JVL00:45:41You didn't do this quite as I was expecting. I see an awful lot of lawbreakers.
Sonny00:45:44You didn't do it quite as I was expecting, which was like you would correspond the roles, right? You did it a little bit there at the end.
Vic00:45:55Honestly, I didn't watch Magic Mike.
Sonny00:45:57So, the Matthew McConaughey character, who's kind of the, you know, like, I would cast Sandra Bullock. Great. You know, she's down to earth, homie. You know, it's great. She'd be great. She would be great in that role, right? She would be. So, you took this seriously. I took this very, very seriously. Unlike you jokers out there. You know, you think this is some sort of gag, some sort of sexist gag, where we can just, you know, whatever. Channing Tatum, the Channing Tatum character, who's like, you know, he's trying to get his life together and get out and go do something bigger and better. Gal Gadot. Gal Gadot. Gal Gadot. That's good. I think that would be, that she'd be perfect in that role.
Vic00:46:32You were really serious about this.
Sonny00:46:33Like Amanda Sainte-Priest there. Sure, that would work. Going by your serious actor. Well, she's a little bit young, though, I think. Gal Gadot's a little bit older. She's like, she's... I think she's, like, more in the appropriate age range. Alex, the Alex Pettyfair character, who's like, he's like kind of a, like, bad boy, you know, he's like kind of a scumbag, whatever. I would go with Karen Gillan, who I think would be very good and funny in that role. I can see that.
Vic00:46:59I don't know her.
Sonny00:47:00All right, so... Nebula from the... Oh, okay.
JVL00:47:04Where's Mantis? Did you cast Mantis in this for life? Oh, no, no, no, no. I should have casted her. Sorry.
Sonny00:47:08But she keeps the antennae. You know, there's... She's not like that normally? There was a major female character in... In Magic Mike, Olivia Munn. Olivia Munn. You need, like, a love interest. So, I would keep it Olivia Munn. That way we have some very woke LGBT representation in this movie. You know, I'm a progressive sort of guy. I like to, you know, make sure that we have everybody represented on screen. Olivia Munn would be fantastic as the Gal Gadot love interest. And then there's the Joe Manginelli... Joe Manginello? Sure. I don't know how to pronounce it. Who is basically just like... I'm not Italian. He basically just plays, like, a perfectly formed man, like, with, you know... Emily Radikowsky.
JVL00:47:57Oh!
Sonny00:47:58Doesn't need to say much. I'm jealous. Just dances. I forgot her.
Vic00:48:03I'm sorry. I forgot her. She's totally at the top of my list.
Sonny00:48:05Tell me that Magic Michelle is not one of the best movies you've ever heard of.
Vic00:48:09That's great. I want to get to... Yeah. No, go ahead. I want to get to JVL in a second. Let me just have two thoughts. One, yes, Emily Radikowsky. I cannot believe I forgot her. That's my fault. Terrible. Two, you actually have... I mean, you're obviously really thinking about how the movie would play out. My kind of movie you could have on mute. Okay. I am interested in these women as actresses, not as pieces of meat. Honorable mention, Eliza Dushku. Okay, I'm sure... Okay, go ahead now, JVL.
JVL00:48:35I legit think we should kill this whole segment. No, this segment's great. I think this is... This is... Nothing good can come of this.
Sonny00:48:43This segment is fantastic.
JVL00:48:45Nothing good can come of this.
Vic00:48:48Look who's at the door. It's Chris Hansen. Okay.
JVL00:48:54Gentlemen, what are you doing here?
Vic00:48:56I went to get groceries.
JVL00:48:58She said she needed some soda. JVL, who's your cast? I don't... I had something. I don't...
Vic00:49:04You're totally spooked. You're totally spooked.
JVL00:49:06Emily Blunt, Kristen Bellion-Hathaway. That's all. I can't... That's the most I could participate in this. That's a great list.
Vic00:49:13Corrections Additions. Nothing. Anything? I got nothing. Okay. We're good. Well, this has been an interesting episode, and that's all the time we're giving to it. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments, tweet us at Victorino Matus, at Sonny Bunch.
Sonny00:49:28At JV Last.
Vic00:49:29Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes or Google Play. Just type in Substandard or Podcast. We're there. Leave a review. Maybe not for this episode, but tell your friends. Until next time.
JVL00:49:44What I'm saying is, will we get to a race and ethnic part of it?
Vic00:49:51I mean, it's kind of a thing that's been done over time, right? But not as one construct. Think about Wizard of Oz and The Wiz. Oh, yeah. I guess that's right. I hadn't really thought about that. Anyway, so there's that. Was Michael Jackson in The Wiz? He was the Scarecrow. He was the Scarecrow, wasn't he? Yeah. Nipsey Russell was the Tin Man, and Mabel King was the Queen. The Witch, rather. She's a queen in my heart. But she was the Wicked Witch. The Wicked Witch was Mabel King. And Diana Ross was Dorothy.
JVL00:50:17Oh, that's right.
Vic00:50:18Yes. That's right. Can I ask you a question?
JVL00:50:19Was it a stage show or a movie?
Vic00:50:21It was originally Broadway, and then it became a movie. Sidney Lumet. Oh, there you go. And I saw it on TV, which is probably about a three-hour show when you throw in all the commercials and everything else. Can I ask you a personal question? Were you ever in a production of Wizard of Oz?
JVL00:50:42How do you know this? Did Shannon tell you?
Vic00:50:45No. I've known you for more than 20 years. Do you remember who I was? I do. You were the scarecrow. I played the Tin Man in a middle school production. What?
Sonny00:50:57We've got half the movie right here.
Vic00:50:59Yeah, look at that. That's crazy. I'm sure it's fine.
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