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#119. The Substandard on Avengers, Baseball, and Buffets
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Dudes Chatting — buffet rankings: Vic's post-Avengers Sunday descended into a long family argument at an Irish bar buffet, which the gang expands into a full buffet-quality debate covering hotel breakfast spreads, Chinese buffets, and whether any buffet can be genuinely good.
Reviews: All three saw Avengers: Infinity War. Sonny's take: it's a good Thanos movie buried inside a cluttered ensemble mess; the Thanos material (especially his scenes with Gamora) genuinely works, but the ending is "fraudulent BS" because everyone knows the deaths are temporary. JVL initially dismissed it, but admits the film unexpectedly lingered with him; he finds the Gamora and Vision/Wanda emotional beats unearned, and floats a theory that Thanos secretly stole the Reality Stone earlier in the film. Vic liked Josh Brolin's Thanos and the Guardians' comic energy but objects to nanotechnology as a storytelling cheat. All three agree the film has near-zero rewatchability because it has no standalone arc — Sonny calls it "an episode of a TV show, not a feature film."
Box Office: Avengers: Infinity War opens to $250M domestic — an all-time record opening weekend. A Quiet Place holds at #2.
JVL opens with an extended story about coaching son Cody: Cody hit a kid in the head with a fastball, JVL told him "there's no crying in baseball," and Cody then struck out six straight batters. Sonny attended the White House Correspondents' Dinner and reports on Michelle Wolf's set; he also watched Moana and calls it "a great defense of colonialism." Spirit of the Week is Filibuster Boondoggler from a Virginia distillery. Vic closes by announcing he has started running again — 2.26 miles — and may join a 9/11 Pentagon-to-somewhere memorial run in September.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00The entire time I knew him, he only ever had one goal. To wipe out half the universe. If he gets all the infinity stones, he can do it with the snap of his fingers. Just like that. Tell me his name again. Thanos.
Vic00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another edition of The Substandard, sponsored by the Black Tux. I'm Victor Matus, along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last. I'd like to remind you The Substandard is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. Just look at a podcast and search for Substandard. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, leave a review. Gentlemen, how are we? JVL.
JVL00:00:56Man alive. I'm fired up.
Vic00:00:59Let's go. What's going on?
JVL00:01:00I got so much to talk about. Do you guys have time for stories?
Vic00:01:03This is like a bonus expanded episode. Go for it. It's going to be a long episode. Oh, this is going to be such a long episode. Strap in, folks.
JVL00:01:09So I had a story that I want to share with you guys. Okay. And it's going to sound like it's a story about my kid, but it's not. It's really a story about me, which makes it awesome.
Vic00:01:18That's what every writer says when they write about their kids, by the way, but go ahead.
JVL00:01:22So a little bit of history. This is a long story. I have to give you a little bit of history. I have in Papa Agassi. Mode been preparing my son to be a dominant baseball player since he was about four years old, and I refused to allow him to play t-ball and little league and all that stuff because I feel like that ruins kids as baseball players and what they really need is intense repetition on fundamentals. And so he and I spend an hour or two every day almost outside throwing and catching and fielding and pitching. We've been doing this again since he was about four years old, and my plan, because I'm selfish, also the other reason I didn't want him in little league is I didn't want to have to drive him around everywhere. So my plan was to unleash him in middle school when the school would cart him around and I wouldn't have to deal with it. And then he would emerge like Athena from Zeus's head as a fully formed adult, and he would just crush all these kids who had been playing baseball together since they were five years old. We'd be like, who is this kid? Oh, he's awesome. That was the plan. The plan didn't quite work because this year Cody was dead set on playing little league and he wouldn't shut up about it and wanted to play, wanted to play, wanted to play, wanted to play. I said no because I'm tough. And then one of his best friends, who is a pretty good player, a slot opened up on their team and his dad came and said, you know, Cody was over at our house and they were throwing around in the backyard. And I didn't know that he had an arm like that. Please let him play. Please let him play. So Cody has joined the little league team. And like Johnny Manziel before him, he is there to wreck the league. He's batting about 950. We're now halfway through the season. He has yet to give up a hit on the mound. He is like a man among boys. It's insane. I never imagined that my kid, he is, and I'm not, no fooling you, he's the best player in the league and it's not even close. But all these other kids are like, who is he, who is he, who is he? Totally dominant. You remember last episode I mentioned that I had to guest coach. Well, Cody went to the mound midway through that game and he came out a little bit wild. And so he walked his first three batters. Oh, he's pitching? Yeah, yeah, he's pitching. As I said, he's a dominant pitcher. When JBL said he hasn't given up a hit. Don't. Don't. Don't worry. Don't talk sports to him. I thought we were talking about basketball. He's hit a lot of threes. A lot of field goals. Continue, please. He comes out wild and he walks the first three batters and then the next batter, he hits in the head with a fastball. It's kind of ugly. So the kid goes down in a sack. Is he wearing the helmet thing? He's wearing the helmet. But it was, I mean, that sound is unmistakable. Cody, too. To Cody's credit, Cody sprinted off the mound to home plate and got to the kid before the kid's coach even got there. He was deeply concerned. The game stops for 10 minutes. The kid is carted off. He later goes to the hospital.
Sonny00:04:41What you missed, though, was Cody whispering into his ear, next time back on the plate.
JVL00:04:48So the game finally resumes and Cody goes up to the mound and I go back to the dugout and he motions over to me. And he says, take me out. And so I say, blue, time. Put up my hands. The umpire calls, time out, time. I walk up to the mound and I say to Cody, what's going on? And as I get there, Cody's standing on the mound crying. And he says, dad, you got to take me out. I don't want to ever pitch again. I don't want to ever hurt somebody like that again. That was awful. And you, as Andre Agassi's dad said, Cody, there's no crying in baseball. As God is my witness, I said that to him. Excellent. I said, there's no crying in baseball. Did anyone else notice he was crying? I don't think so. Okay. And he said, what do you mean? I said, this is baseball. There's no crying in baseball. You just. And I'm not taking you out. You're not coming out of the game. You're going to stand up here on this mound and you're going to finish the inning. And you're either going to get three outs or you're going to give up five runs because that's the mercy rule they play in this little league. Did you do the fancy hands? I did. Just now? Uh-huh. I said, to be honest, I don't care which it is. I have no preference one way or another. But the rest of your team is up here and they depend on you as the pitcher to get them through the inning. So that's what you're going to do. And I handed him the ball back. I slapped him on the ass and I said, go get him, buddy. And I walked back to the dugout. And you know what he did? He struck out the next three batters and then came in the next inning and struck out the next three batters. On 15 pitches.
Vic00:06:29Tough love.
JVL00:06:31I don't toot my own horn. I don't often crush parenthood. But I crushed that mother******. There. That's why I'm so fired up. And it gets even better because last night's game, Cody comes in in relief. The team is down. He is so dominant and is pitching hard inside. All the other kids in the league now know who he is. And he does. He throws a strike inside. And the kid literally bails out of the batter's box. Even on a strike. And the third base coach calls out to him. You got to hang in the box there, buddy. He's not going to hit you.
?00:07:09Oh, my gosh.
Sonny00:07:10Well. No promises.
JVL00:07:13You could see the kid look back at his coach like, have you heard about this guy?
Sonny00:07:18You know, controlled aggression is an important thing in baseball. I mean, this is the Nolan Ryan phenomenon, right? It's so great.
JVL00:07:24It's so great. I can't even tell you. That's great. How much pleasure I get watching him just wreck this league. They're undefeated. They're not going to lose a game.
?00:07:32There you go.
JVL00:07:33It's crazy. That's good. That's good. That's good.
Sonny00:07:35How are you guys? Hopefully, his, like, the only problem here is if he, like, doesn't grow at the same rate as the rest of the kids. And if he just, like, stays the same size. And every, like, this is what youth sports is like. Well, he's a big kid.
JVL00:07:46Youth sports is just unfair because of the way kids grow. I, like, it's. He is a big, big kid. So, and my guess is he'll wind up my size eventually. So, I think. The limits will just be his arm. You know, I don't know what his arm will develop like. But he's already throwing. I haven't put a gun on him, but he looks like he's. That's a radar gun, Vic.
Sonny00:08:06That's a, that's a radar. He hasn't. He's not talking about, like, putting a gun to Cody's head.
Vic00:08:09He's like, throw as hard as you can. Throw as hard as you can.
Sonny00:08:11Well, you never know with him.
Vic00:08:13You never know with J.L.
JVL00:08:14When he brings the gas, it's 50. I think about 50 or 55 miles an hour. That's great. Which is great.
Vic00:08:19Is he going through the whole actual real professional pitcher motion? This is no underhand deal, right? This is not, like. He's not looping it up like in League of Their Own. Was it League of Their Own? Oh, I'm sorry. There's no video to show me doing my thing.
Sonny00:08:32He actually gets to the game riding on one of those old-timey bicycles with the big wheel. Cody actually has a handlebar mustache.
Vic00:08:40And now playing for the Rockford Peaches.
Sonny00:08:43Okay.
Vic00:08:44How are you, Victorino? I'm fine. I'm fine. It's a little warm in here. It's a hot day.
JVL00:08:48Because I am excited. You know what it is? It's the heat coming off of my excitement.
Vic00:08:52This is a hot show. Let's see. Over the weekend, the whole family went to see The Avengers. The whole family. And Gene? No. Gene's on vacation. Gene's got the week off.
Sonny00:09:04Gene can't be here every week. I feel like it should be more of a treat. We should make the people tune in.
Vic00:09:09I know Matt Gertz mentioned this, but other people mentioned this.
Sonny00:09:11Media Matters, who is watching the show closely, by the way. Wait.
Vic00:09:14Congressman Matt Gertz?
Sonny00:09:16Congressman Matt Gates. Gates. Oh, Gates. Congressman Matt Gates. He's a big fan of the show.
Vic00:09:21So, yes. He's up at the Berkshires. He's vacationing. But the family went and was down at AMC Courthouse, right? So, my concern- My old theater. Yeah, your old theater. My concern, of course, was- Parking. Yes. Exactly. How do you know this? See, he knows it. I don't have to finish my sentence, as we explained in the last episode. So, I said, let's get there early. We can go grab a bite to eat, and then we can go see the movie, because it's The Avengers, and it's going to be sold out, and everywhere. That parking lot-
JVL00:09:50You didn't buy your tickets ahead of time?
Vic00:09:52I did. I did.
JVL00:09:53Did you get the premium seating with the-
Vic00:09:55Yeah, we got four seats in a row, second row, in the middle. Oh, great. Okay. Really good. But in terms of the parking at AMC, you know how it is. It's a mob scene, that parking lot. There's that parking lot behind, so- Well, it's like right next to the courthouse. Yeah, exactly. So, like, it's- Exactly. But you're on the weekend, though, so it shouldn't be- It is Sunday's free parking, but everyone's out and about. So, in fact- They also have a parking garage. Oh, it's all just construction. Which validates- Oh, it's under construction. Yeah, it's crazy. Oh, okay. So, that whole section was closed.
Sonny00:10:20Well, we know how Vic feels about paying for parking underneath movie theaters.
Vic00:10:23As we know, that one is free on Sundays. I would have allowed that to happen. So, we went around, but I found street parking, and then I said, well, let's grab a bite to eat. It's only four miles away, too. No, no. It's easy. It was right, actually, across the street.
Sonny00:10:34He actually just pulled back into his driveway. He was like, all right, kids, we're here. Start walking.
Vic00:10:38I used some sodium. That happened. And we go to a couple places. Every place is booked. Oh, I'm sorry. We've been booked for two weeks ahead for brunch, because, you know, people got to go to brunch. Like, Tupelo, honey. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. It's a two-hour wait for brunch. What is this, New York? Well, this is what I'm saying. For brunch, I know Sonny- Has brunch become a D.C. thing now, the way it is in New York? Yes, the style section did a whole thing on brunch. You have very strong opinions on brunch, Sonny Bunch. Well, brunch is- Brunch.
Sonny00:11:04It's a garbage meal for trash people. Why do you- Why is that? Why is that? Well, it's just, it's the thing that, you know, the 20-somethings do, because they're like, oh, we get to drink- Bottomless mimosas? We get to drink at 11 in the morning. Actually, well, no, it's like one in the afternoon, because they're f***ing asleep until, you know, whenever. Oh, what time is it?
JVL00:11:2413.30.
Sonny00:11:26Sorry, I got to write down my notebook. But, like, it's just, it is really, like, it is the worst manifestation of the childishness of adults in America circa 2018.
Vic00:11:37We ended up at the four, you'll know this, because it's right up the road on Wilson Boulevard, I think it's four provinces- The four provinces? Of Ireland? Oh, the Irish. The Irish place, yeah, the Irish place. It's on the courts of provinces, the four P's is on Connecticut Avenue.
Sonny00:11:51The place that's next to T&R Cafe? Yes, the New Republic Cafe. Which is where I assume all the New Republic staffers go to eat. If I worked at the New Republic, that would be where I would-
Vic00:11:59I can't believe you know the T&R Cafe. I made a joke about that to Kate. I said, oh, we can go to the New Republic Cafe. So, we go there, and they have this sort of a very poor man's buffet, breakfast brunch buffet, but that's fine, the kids just like pancakes and all that, but it made me think about how much I love buffet, you know, versus- and breakfast buffet in particular, breakfast buffet, and that is the very maddest thing in our family. We would always go, like, oh, if there's a buffet, we gotta go there. We gotta go to Atlantic City, you know, the Golden Nugget. They've got a buffet, and we do this thing. And you would really try to beat the house, you know what I mean? Like, you want to try to make them lose money on your visit, right? And so, we would do- and I was thinking about this, my breakfast buffet, and this is how it works in my mind, because I think about these things, which is- and by the way, this is the exact opposite of my wife and her family. It would be a waste of money for them to go to a buffet. They'd have, like, one little plate. Really? I'm surprised. Shocking. Connecticut, one little plate, oh, I'm done, I'm full. You know, I mean, I've actually seen my father-in-law come back from, like, surgery, you know, to the house, and then just have a saltine cracker with peanut butter, say, oh, that's my lunch.
Sonny00:13:03Well, he did- he was coming back from surgery? He may not have- it's not all of us- Performing, performing. Not all of us gorge on, you know, steaks after we get cut open.
Vic00:13:12No, performing. Oh, because he's a doctor.
Sonny00:13:14Yes, that's right.
Vic00:13:15So, anyway, it would be a waste of money. It would be a waste with them, but our family, we really took advantage of this, and I just want to say, I wanted to share my thoughts on Breakfast Buffet, how I go about it, in case anyone's curious. You know, not now, because I'm on the RG diet, but I would start with cold. You start with cold, right? Cured meats. Cured meats, smoked fish, if they have it, and I've been to places in Europe where they have-
JVL00:13:36Cold, this is a bad value proposition.
Sonny00:13:39No, no, no, no, I'm just getting- hold on, I'm getting started, I'm just getting started.
Vic00:13:43This is like filling up on bread. This is the cheap stuff they put out to distract- No, not at all, not at all. No, no, no, no, it's all proteins. So, we get the cold cuts and get some cheese, right, to start off, a little antipasto, whatever it is, and smoked fish, if they have it. And then the second round is the main, right, so we're talking about eggs. Omelette bar, if there's nobody at the omelette bar. Now, you could switch the order. If you walk in and there's nobody there, go to the omelette bar. Oh, yeah, if there's no line, you gotta take the omelette station. It's crazy, it's crazy. People ask for ridiculous things. So, get the omelette. But I would not get the omelette and then get more eggs. That's just, that's too much for me. Just an omelette.
JVL00:14:17Also, the eggs are a bad value proposition.
Vic00:14:19I mean, what's the actual cost of an egg? The egg. Ten cents? And then sausage and bacon, some potato. And then the third round is something sweet, because you want to start savory and end with something sweet, so maybe a pancake or a waffle or a pastry and coffee. I think it's very, maybe a little fruit, a piece of fruit.
Sonny00:14:34I'm sorry, I zoned out for a second. Did you mention the omelette, the make-your-own-omelette bar? So, here's, but here's. Yeah, talk to me. Here's my issue with the way that you have ordered this, is that the, the, the way I go about the breakfast buffet is you have to go up to the make-your-own-omelette bar. When it's empty. When it's empty. That's like. That's the whole thing he just said. You were zoned out. Oh, okay. That's a priority. It is a priority. Sorry, sorry. People are nuts about it. But, because that's the thing, is that like, like, I'm not going to wait, I don't wait in line for anything. I'm not going to wait in line for food that I can just get for no line slightly later. It's very frustrating. Sorry. When you go on vacation. I was actually just writing down an impromptu ranking of buffets while you were talking about that. That's why I.
Vic00:15:08Wait, hold on.
JVL00:15:09I would like to know, Victorino, you don't use the fruit as an aperitif between courses? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, like, you finish one course, and then you just have, like, a couple slices of pineapple and a strawberry.
Vic00:15:20No, no, like, no, no, like, in sort of the interlude. No, I like it at the end, like, maybe one square of honeydew, and then say, hey, you know what? I had a good healthy. The cheapest melon.
JVL00:15:31How do you, I'm sorry, how do you propose to beat the house when you're gorging yourself on things which are of no value, like honeydew and pancakes? By quantity.
Vic00:15:43I'm making, like, four. Four trips.
JVL00:15:45You gotta focus on the meat, right? You gotta focus on the bacon and eggs. Well, bacon, I do get a plate of bacon.
Vic00:15:49I get a big plate of bacon. A big plate of bacon. Oh, if there's shrimp, there's no question.
JVL00:15:54Salmon. Yeah. Crabcakes, Benedict. But nothing, but, yes. Crabcake, right. This is for you. But then we're morphing into a general brunch-ish area, and if we do brunch, I will start with
Vic00:16:01breakfast and end up with a regular brunch, and have lunch food afterwards, carving station, things like that.
Sonny00:16:06Okay.
JVL00:16:07Yeah. Do you have a ranking?
Sonny00:16:09I do. Well, I was just working on one, because I didn't realize we were going to be talking about this. I know, I surprised everybody today. So, if I was going to rank the buffets, breakfast would probably be last. It would be last on my list. But I do like a good breakfast buffet. It kind of depends where you are. Breakfast is just kind of like a meal for me.
Vic00:16:24Oh, I love breakfast.
Sonny00:16:25On the cruise ship, love breakfast. So, that would be, that's number four. Yeah, it was okay. I've picked four buffets here. Okay, okay. Number three will be the Brazilian Steakhouse Buffet. Fogo de Chow? Yeah, like a Fogo de Chow or something. And I gotta be honest, I'm not a huge fan of these restaurants. I would prefer... So... Like, they're expensive. I mean, it's like 60 bucks. But it's a lot of meat. You gotta get the meat. Don't go for that salad. You know, they trick you. Well, the salad, but the salad bar is so good. This is why lunch is better. Because it's cheaper, but they also have the salad bar. And they also have, like, amazing hot bread.
Vic00:16:56They do this on purpose.
Sonny00:16:56Yeah, yeah. But I'm not, I'm actually not a huge fan of the Brazilian Steakhouse because I would prefer to just pay the same amount of money for one really nice cut of meat.
Vic00:17:04You know what I like about the Brazilian Steakhouse is that you don't have to get up. That's true.
Sonny00:17:07They come to you.
Vic00:17:08You have a card and say, please keep this coming.
Sonny00:17:10You can just gorge, and they just keep coming to you. It's like the Keno of steakhouses. Yeah.
JVL00:17:15That's right.
Sonny00:17:16All right, number two would be the Vegas-style mega buffet that has everything. Like Bellagio. Yeah, again, my only real problem with these is that they're so expensive that it's hard to turn it into a money-losing proposition for them, which is, again, always the goal when you go to a buffet. But it's like $35 for the Bellagio. No, it's more than that. It was a buffet, wasn't it? Now it's more than that. I bet you it's more now. I mean, I went to the Cosmo Buffet the last time I was in Vegas, and it was like $55 or $60 or something. Oh, that's expensive. Like, it was good. Don't get me wrong. I have no regrets.
Vic00:17:43I like to gorge on the shrimp, except for remember what happened in the movie Go.
Sonny00:17:47Yeah, but don't you get comped? Do they no longer comp people at buffets out of Vegas? Well, I mean, I don't get what I have to really take. I got comped. I got comped.
JVL00:17:52Yeah, that's your thing.
Sonny00:17:54I got comped at Fitzgerald.
JVL00:17:55All you have to do is talk about them on the podcast. I got comped at Fitzgerald. Thanks to my friend at the Wynn.
Vic00:18:01I got comped at Fitzgerald's, which is a really high-quality buffet. Well, we can't do that.
Sonny00:18:07This guy could. Thanks to the MGM Grand. And number one, Chinese. Chinese is still the king of the buffets. It's hard to find a good one. It's hard to find a good one. I'm telling you, man, the Bailey's Crossroad one, that's the thing. That's the thing. It's the best value proposition by far.
Vic00:18:22And I always end it with they have a little ice cream, because usually they do have ice cream there. But you can have everything. You know, normally you want to talk about carb loading. You get lo mein and the fried rice. I mean, that's insanity.
Sonny00:18:33Of course, the best value proposition is the hotel breakfast buffet, because it's already included in your room. Well, yeah. So it's, you know, it's free.
Vic00:18:41There was one at Orlando, like the Marriott International. I was giving some talk there for Collegiate Network, and it was the most impressive buffet I've seen.
JVL00:18:49Better than the Mayflower back in the day? Do you remember the Mayflower breakfast buffet that we used to do?
Vic00:18:53Well, you take into account the cost of that. That was a very fancy one. We'd wake up. We'd go downstairs. We'd wake up and go downstairs. I do remember that. It was so romantic.
Sonny00:19:04Jokes. I do remember that.
Vic00:19:06Just joking, guys. But you know what? And I feel like they're obviously good. You know what I always thought was a good brunch that I'd never been invited to? The one after the, like the Tammy Haddad. The before. It's not after. It's before. It's the Tammy Haddad White House Correspondence Brunch. Yeah, the White House Correspondence Dinner. Speaking of White House Correspondence Dinner, Sonny, how was your weekend?
Sonny00:19:23Yeah, so I was at the White House Correspondence Dinner this weekend. I have to say, this is the second dinner that I've been to. The first was the Stephen Colbert edition of the White House Correspondence Dinner. Which was when? When was that? That was 2006, I think. The good old days. So, yeah, so if you want a White House Correspondence Dinner to be kind of a disaster in the room and cause lots of head shaking and hand wringing afterward, make sure I'm there, because I got your back. You know, I don't want to talk a ton about this, because God knows everybody's been talking about it all week. I will say that- Why? What happened? So, for those of you who have been living under a rock, the comedian Michelle Wolfe was, was- Oh, does she have a show on Netflix? Was roundly panned. She will be having a show on, she's a daily show correspondent. She will be having a show on Netflix soon. Oh, a daily show correspondent.
Vic00:20:18It's like the rite of passage for all daily shows.
Sonny00:20:20Yeah, you basically, you do the White House Correspondence Dinner, and then you get your own show. I actually found the, I thought it was actually more or less pretty funny in the room. I had no, I had no real objections to it. The Sarah Sanders stuff was awkward because she's sitting right there, but whatever. I mean, the problem with this thing is they have no idea what they want. Either they want it to be a roast, and it has to be awkward for-
JVL00:20:40Slave girl, change to her.
Sonny00:20:42Who? Sarah Huckabee Sanders? I don't understand. I don't get it. It's, never mind. I'll explain it off air. Okay. And you either have to make it a roast and make it awkward for everyone all the time, or you have to not do that and make it a kind of a glad handy thing. And what you can't do, and what they have done, is they have this kind of on and off thing where, well, when it's a Republican president, they're a pretty fair game. And then eight years of Barack Obama, nothing. And this isn't a strict- Democrat-Republican rule, of course. What's his name? The radio, Don Imus Trash. Oh, yeah. Famously. In 93 or 94, whenever that was. But you have to either do it and go for it, or just get rich effing little to do it every year. Danny Gans. Or Danny Gans. May he rest in peace. Is he gone? Oh, yeah. Did you kill him?
Vic00:21:33No. Oh, no. Before the show, but he was a, yeah. Oh, okay. Premature death.
Sonny00:21:39Or Wayne Newton or something. You get somebody to come in and kind of-
JVL00:21:43He's a singer, isn't he? Yes. Wayne Newton. I think so. Okay. Siegfried and Roy.
Sonny00:21:48Yeah, no, but this is my point, though. It doesn't have to be a comedy. You can do- They did this under- You just get an M.C.
Vic00:21:53One of the last years of the Clinton administration, following the Ibis fiasco, they had Aretha Franklin sing. There was no comedian.
JVL00:21:59Probably the best White House correspondent ever.
Sonny00:22:03And then also this week, so the dinner itself is fine. It's fundraising food. It's mediocre steak and mediocre fish. It's for a lot of people. And free drinks and whatever. It was fun. I had a good time. I got to wear a tux. I got to be very fancy. But-
JVL00:22:17Did your tux have elbow pads? No. No? Patches?
Sonny00:22:22No, it didn't have elbow patches. Because you're picturing it. Yeah. Also, this weekend, we watched Moana, or I watched Moana for the first time. My daughter- We'll talk about that in a minute. Has been watching-
Vic00:22:34Yes.
Sonny00:22:36Do you- I'm listening.
Vic00:22:37No, no, I'm listening.
Sonny00:22:38But it was very interesting. It was very interesting to watch, because it's an odd movie. It's an odd movie insofar as there's no real villain. There's that sparkly crab who's in it for- But he's almost more comedic. Yeah, Jermaine Clement. He's very funny. He's very funny. And then there's the kind of elemental force at the end that's actually just the island who wants her stone back or whatever. So it's a slightly weird movie, but I did love it, because it is one of the great defenses of colonialism of our time. I mean, if you think about it, Moana is just a little- She's out there on the waves and go from island to island and spread her message. She's got the gods on her side. Granted, they're heathen pagan gods, but whatever. And it is about the innate human urge to expand and control more and more territory. So I'm pro this movie. It's great.
Vic00:23:30It's very much like Polynesian, the game Civilization, if you're Kamehameha, from what other people tell me. I wouldn't know, because I've never played it. What was their special unit, Vic? Honestly, I've not played it. I don't want to say primitive, because that would be offensive, but it's an early...
JVL00:23:46Probably the Outrigger Canoe, instead of a trireme.
Vic00:23:48It's an early unit. I don't know the name of it. It's an early unit. Plus, they embark very early on.
Sonny00:23:56So anyway, they didn't really get to any of the colonializing the rest of the islands that they show up at, but I'm pretty excited for Moana 2, Blood Sacrifice, you know?
Vic00:24:05When they go against the Fijians, the Samoans, and you also had a Frozen Bird movie. You had a birthday party experience, didn't you?
Sonny00:24:11Yeah, one of our friends, it was his daughter's birthday. She had a princess party. Yeah. Which princess?
JVL00:24:18Or was it all princesses?
Sonny00:24:19Well, it was all princesses, but the princess who came to the princess party was Princess Elsa, Queen Elsa, I guess. Like a professional, an adult. Like an actual adult dressed up as Elsa to sing songs.
Vic00:24:30Vic, were you there? No, I wasn't, but a source tells me, Sonny, a source tells me that you later on asked Elsa if she does bachelor parties.
Sonny00:24:38No. No. No. I did not do that. That source was Dan Helper, by the way. Daniel Helper. It was weird. It was weird, because she's a trained musician, so she's singing and doing the songs. And she's also hopping through the Disney canon. She was doing Tangled songs and Beauty and the Beast songs. Vic, I dare you to stand up right now.
Vic00:25:02No, my question is, is she in character the entire time, also talking to grown-ups, or did she break character?
Sonny00:25:08I mean, she was. She was basically in character the whole time. I mean, there was a little bit at the end where she was like, kids are so great, everyone. So she was just doing kind of like, good.
Vic00:25:19And your daughter, everyone believed it, that this was Elsa?
Sonny00:25:22I mean, who knows what the kids actually believed, but they all had a really good time. You never know.
Vic00:25:26No, when they're small, they can believe it's the real Elsa.
Sonny00:25:28They all seemed to have a very good time. They were entranced.
Vic00:25:31Okay, so who gave the more dominating performance, Michelle Wolfe or Elsa? That's what I want to know.
Sonny00:25:36Well, Michelle Wolfe's voice is still... She's still ringing in my ears. She's like the female Gilbert Gottfried.
Vic00:25:43I mean, she was like... Yeah, well, speaking of dominating performances, over the weekend, Avengers Infinity War crushed the box office with $250 million, the biggest opening weekend in the history of mankind. In a distant second was A Quiet Place with $10.6 million, and I Feel Pretty still hanging on there with $8 million in third place. I think we all saw Avengers Infinity War, didn't we?
JVL00:26:10I sure did. The three of us?
Vic00:26:12I did. JVL, you have Infinity War thoughts?
JVL00:26:18Yeah. Can we...
Vic00:26:20Okay. Good luck. I hope this works.
JVL00:26:26Comic book events are the best. If you don't read comic books, what happens is... It all started in 1984 with Marvel's limited series, The Secret War, or maybe DC's Crisis on Infinite... Look, comic book events are the best because all of the heroes fight. Okay? That's what happens. They fight. And then Asgard crashes into Oklahoma, and then they fight again, and then some character you love dies, and it's really meaningful. Okay. Or there's a multiverse, and they... All of these other Earths have lots of... They have lots of heroes, and they have to collapse all of the multi... into one universe. Okay? And so they fight, and someone you really care about dies. Okay. Or the heroes, all of them get really mad at each other, and then they fight, and then someone dies. But then they're in different teams for like a year, and it's so great because they have so many of the heroes fighting. The reason the comic book events are the best is because normally in a comic book, you only get a few heroes fighting, and that's okay. But when then you have lots of heroes fighting, it's more awesome because you don't even need to worry about a story or characters or anything because there's just so much fighting, and they have all the heroes. And in a movie like The Dark Knight Rises, there are only two heroes, and they only fight for part of the movie. Okay, but Avengers Infinity War has all of the heroes, and they fight all of them. All the time, and that's why it's the best superhero movie ever. Thank you.
Sonny00:28:15Thank you. Was that James Halliday? It kind of was Halliday-esque. Question. Which is the best comic book fight movie ever?
Vic00:28:26Avengers Infinity Wars.
Sonny00:28:28Yeah, okay. That's what I thought.
Vic00:28:29Okay, thank you. Back to the androids dungeon you go. You know who I thought was actually good? Honestly, I really like Josh Brolin as Thanos. I thought he was a really good fit. You know what else is a good fit? The Black Tux. It's the easy way for guys to rent suits and tuxedos online. They have amazing new selections. If you haven't checked out the Black Tux in a while, you've missed out on a lot. They've got a new complete look and suit essentials for all of your upcoming spring events and weddings. Now you can look as great as your date. The Black Tux makes stepping up your style for a wedding or special event easier than ever before. So you can make sure you look as great as your date. Again, I tried on the Wrigley suit. It was great on me. And, of course, our name. Now former intern Graham Pirro, he got a Black Tux for the dip ball, and so did his friend. And it was a perfect fit. So whether you're going for a stylist-selected outfit or building a custom look, the Black Tux has tons of new suits and tuxedos to choose from for your big spring events. The Black Tux is always changing up their looks, making it fun to try out different suits and tuxedos. Even if you have your own suit, switching it up with the Black Tux is always a great idea. And with their new fit algorithm, you don't have to awkwardly measure yourself or ask a friend for help. The Black Tux does it for you. Plus, the Black Tux free home try-on lets you see the fit and feel the quality of your suit months before your event. After ordering, your suit will arrive 14 days before the event. And remember how simple returns are. Wear it, turn heads, then send it back three days after the event. Shipping is free both ways. Stand out at your event for the right reasons with the Black Tux. To get $20 off your purchase, visit the blacktux.com slash substandard. That's the blacktux.com slash substandard for $20 off your purchase. The Black Tux, premium rental suits and tuxedos delivered. And that's it for the show this week. Tune in next week for Sonny Bunch's review of The Avengers.
Sonny00:30:29Ah, just kidding. We wouldn't do that to you. We wouldn't just stop the show right in the middle after... Without telling you that it's a part one of part two? Without telling you that it's a part one or without, you know...
Vic00:30:43Sonny Bunch will return in The Substand.
Sonny00:30:46Really finishing what we're doing here, you know. I'm like some people out there.
Vic00:30:52Some studios. I'm like some studios out there. Yes, that's right. So, we all have, I think, a lot of thoughts on The Avengers. Sonny, did you want to give also a kind of a review of sorts?
Sonny00:31:03Yeah, so we're definitely gonna... So, this is a spoiler-heavy episode of The Substandard. If you've not seen... I'm sorry, do I get nothing for my bit? No, it was great. That was great.
Vic00:31:13I told you, back to the Androids dungeon. Yeah, no, that's good. Thank you.
Sonny00:31:18I'm sorry, I didn't realize we had to do a round of applause every time someone did a bit.
JVL00:31:22After the reception Johnny Ivey got, I've been a little bit, you know, up in my head about this stuff. What's he talking about? I don't know. What was Johnny Ivey? I don't know. Probably the Australian accent.
Sonny00:31:34So, Avengers Infinity War is a movie. Of sorts. It's kind of a movie. There's, like, there is an action on the scene, and there's jokes, there's quips, lots of banter. Yeah, I like the writing, the banter was good. Here's the thing about Avengers Infinity War is I have no idea how to review this. A lot of people have no idea how to review this. A.O. Scott basically wrote what amounted to an essay about how he is filled with ennui about his career and the state of cinema, rather than a review of this film. Richard Brody was like, they just introduced the characters, and nobody has any idea what's going on. The problem with this film is that there is a good movie in it. If they had just made this a movie about Thanos, if this had been, if they had made, like, you know, remember Captain America, the first Avenger, or Iron Man, or whatever, just like a straight up Thanos origin story, where you follow the beats of his attempts to capture the stones, and also his relationship with Gamora and Nebula. And kind of how that plays with Quill and those guys. I think that could have been a successful narrative feature film with an emotional arc, and it kind of subverts the idea of these Marvel movies, where you begin it with his attack on Xandar, instead of skipping over all that. I mean, like, it's a very weird movie insofar as you have this whole giant action scene, and a movie filled with action scenes, and they're like, eh, we don't need that. We need 15 minutes about Thor making a f***ing axe. What time is it?
JVL00:33:10But it's an axe and a hammer.
Sonny00:33:13It's an axe and a hammer, and it calls the Bifrost. It's magic.
JVL00:33:17Plus Peter Dinklage. Plus Peter Dinklage. Plus giant dwarf Peter Dinklage.
Sonny00:33:20Giant dwarf Peter Dinklage, which is kind of a meta joke about him being a short person. But anyway, there is a successful Thanos movie in this, where you just make Thanos the straight-up protagonist, and watch how he accomplishes all his goals. Like, we've watched Captain America, Thor, The Guardians of the Galaxy. Black Panther, et cetera, accomplish all of their goals. And that could be a successful movie, with an actual narrative arc and actual emotions. And instead, what you get is this thing where everybody gets about five minutes of screen time, everybody gets to make a joke. And then they end it, as we kind of joked at the beginning of this segment, it's part one. I mean, originally this was going to be...
JVL00:34:03No, they're all really dead. Look, I understand Marvel just made $1.1 billion with Black Panther four weeks ago. Yeah, but they're done with that.
Sonny00:34:12They're never going to make that money again, because they've killed Black Panther for real, for forever. For real, forever. And this is the problem with the movie, is that it ends on this... I think Jason Bailey over at FlavorWire called it fraudulent b****** of an ending. And it is. I mean, it is nonsense. I saw people talking about how they were crying when Spider-Man died. I'm like, if you cried... At this, you deserve to be sent to a f***ing prison for the rest of your life.
Vic00:34:4537.
JVL00:34:46Pop Sugar had a piece that was like, you know, the five deaths which made me the saddest, or something like that.
Vic00:34:55Yes, well, our colleague Sonny Steven Gutowski said when he went to see it, there were kids crying at the end of that movie.
Sonny00:35:01Well, kids should be allowed to cry at the end of this movie. If you're 12, which is the proper age to cry about fake comic book deaths... There's no crying in comics. But that would be acceptable. There's no crying in comic books. But if you have any idea what you're doing as a human adult in the year 2018, you should know that this is nonsense. Now, here's the interesting question. Here's the only thing I actually will be angry about if they renege on, is if Gamora comes back to life. Basically, anybody who's wiped out at the end in the kind of dissolve, you bring those people back, that's their game.
Vic00:35:37The ones who went Voldemort style.
Sonny00:35:39But the people... The people who actually die. So if they bring Loki back, or Gamora back, cheats. Those are cheats. As opposed to this, which is just like the narrative end, it's the midway point. And again, there are things I really liked about this. I like the final shot of Thanos kind of staring off into the sunset, his mission accomplished, his day he's going to throw back. Much like in the comic book. Bacardi and Coke, and just enjoy the empty universe. The Paul Ehrlich-ized universe. He's going to live his best life. So, you know, it's a bad... I'm glad you said that.
JVL00:36:09It was funny. It was funny to me to see Paul Ehrlich turn into a comic book villain.
Sonny00:36:12I mean, it is a... I mean, it's literally just Paul Ehrlich. I mean, this is, you know, he's your nemesis. And he's like, here he is, he's a big purple Paul Ehrlich.
Vic00:36:21I was going to say Paul Kennedy. Paul Kennedy?
Sonny00:36:24Paul Kennedy also had these books about overpopulation and things like that.
Vic00:36:27But this is my thought, was that if Thanos had only read your book, Jonathan... Then he would have understood labor economics. I don't need to halve the universe's population because it's actually... We're not having that kind of a problem.
JVL00:36:39You'd think the reality stone could conjure up more food for people. Yes. I don't know. No, I mean, that was really... I mean, it's based on a false premise for him because he thinks that there are these issues. But maybe it is on his planet. I would push back into this slightly in that I think the character of Thanos is not inherently interesting enough to sustain a story by itself. I do not like the Thanos, at least as written in the comics. The Thanos stuff... I know Connetti's a huge, huge Thanos fan. Yes, he is. It never grabbed me. He doesn't... He's just too powerful, too omnipotent. All of his sad sex stuff as he grows up and the tragedies. It didn't do it for me.
Vic00:37:19The too powerful thing is an issue because if I'm watching Black Widow and Falcon and Peter Cull, really? They're going to stop him? Because how are they going to stop anything? Or Bucky Barnes with his machine gun. That's a machine gun!
JVL00:37:35What did you think, Vic? Did you not like it?
Vic00:37:38You like everything. I do. I do. If you remember when I used to review movies for The Weekly Standard, I think every movie I reviewed was great. Four stars. No, it's really why Gene was my role model. I liked it all. That was me, by the way. No one could tell. No one could tell. I liked it, but I mean, there are aspects of the movie that I liked. I actually liked the humor with the Guardians of the Galaxy. I liked that stuff. It's funny. I think it works well. I like Josh Brolin as Thanos. I think, again, I didn't read... I didn't read the Thanos in the comic books, but I thought he really carried that role and made it much more interesting. The end was a bit much, you know, when everyone goes Voldemort style and flakes off into, you know, nothing. But I understand. I understand what's going, which is, you know, as Mel Brooks said in Spaceballs, you know, hopefully we'll all meet up again in the sequel, Spaceballs 2, The Search for More Money, you know, and that's what this is.
Sonny00:38:34Right. I mean, this is the 19th entry in a giant mega franchise that has grossed billions and billions of dollars. Like, it's hard. 6.3 billion. It is hard to get upset about this because that is just what it is. That's just what it is. That's, it's a 6.3, that's just domestic, right?
JVL00:38:51Domestic, and that's as of now, when this movie is done, it will be closer to seven.
Sonny00:38:58But to speak, speaking to your Thanos point, just briefly, I always thought Thanos was kind of a silly character in the comics as well, given that his motivation was to get laid from death. Which is stupid. But this actually, I actually liked his motivation here. I thought it made more sense. I thought it was a vast improvement on the character, as opposed to the comic books.
JVL00:39:21Well, somebody in, was it the New York Times wrote, you know, it was really brave of Marvel to give Thanos a motivation, which was itself, good.
Sonny00:39:30Right, exactly. Yeah, I mean, he raises a lot of good points. He is Agamemnon.
Vic00:39:35He's the hero of Infinity War. This is the mainstream. Can I, can I? Remember, he's Agamemnon. He's Agamemnon because he sacrifices his daughter to achieve victory. Can I swerve? Or Stannis Baratheon. Go ahead, swerve.
Sonny00:39:47My feelings on this are more complicated.
Vic00:39:51Okay.
JVL00:39:52I don't disagree that this is really just like the Avengers and the Deathly Hallows Part 1. I don't disagree that there isn't really a story. It's just a sequence of events. There's a beginning and a middle and an end, but no arc. It's just sort of a flat, linear progression. For me, there were some beats in it which just weren't earned. Specifically, the Gamora-Thanos thing, which you can see from five miles away. The idea behind that is right. It is not earned on screen. There is nothing to it. I mean, giving us 45 seconds of her as a little girl with him does not sell to us that this is a real thing for him.
Sonny00:40:35This is why the whole movie should have been about that. You can stretch that out.
JVL00:40:39I don't disagree. The Vision and Wanda Maximoff stuff, totally unearned.
Sonny00:40:44I would rather gouge my eyes out than watch those scenes again. You have a two-and-a-half-hour movie here. Why are we spending so much time with these people who we don't care about at all?
JVL00:40:52In Scotland. Yes. That's sad. And it's a mess. So why is Nebula here? The whole Thor and giant dwarf Peter Dinklage thing is a digression that doesn't really need to be there. The answer is, we need a giant hammer and an axe. This is a movie. You can invent whatever you want. Just invent the giant hammer and an axe that's buried somewhere, and they find it. You don't need to go to the white star.
Vic00:41:19I'm going to harness the power.
Sonny00:41:21Can I interrupt just, please? Since you mentioned the heart of the star, can we discuss how the power levels of Asgardians make no sense whatsoever? No. So Thor can survive deep space, but Loki has his neck broken. But he's not an Asgardian. He's like a dark elf, remember? But in that same scene, Idris Elba, whatever his character's name is, dies because he gets stabbed. Yes. So he gets stabbed, and he dies.
JVL00:41:51Yeah, but he's stabbed with some super special weapon. He gets stabbed, and he dies. It's like a plus seven dark sword. Okay.
Sonny00:41:57He gets stabbed, and he dies. But Thor can just kind of float through space and also endure the brunt of a star directed entirely on his body. Right on his body. For like a minute. And he gets a little singed. The power levels in this movie don't make any sense, and they're totally at the whims of the writers. That's bad writing. That's bad action.
Vic00:42:18You know what also I think is a cheat is nanotechnology. Everything is nanotech. Nanotechnology is like time travel. It's just a thing to make anything I want happen happen. And it comes out of Spider-Man's back, the extra legs, the whole deal, and other floating robot things, firing things, which has no relation, in my opinion, to the actual surface. It's a surface area of, like, what are these things coming out of? It just, that drove me crazy. Nanotechnology, please.
JVL00:42:46So all of that said, there are some things the movie executes very well, I think. The children of Thanos are truly very heavy. They establish them as heavy. And I am embarrassed to say this, but I found all of the deaths at the end kind of vaguely affecting. Listen to me. I did not expect this reaction as I was sitting there in the theater, munching my popcorn because it was a cheat day. I thought to myself, I will forget about this movie five minutes after I'm in the car. And instead, the opposite happened. I would say the movie, and especially the tone of the movie, which it gets, again, right. You never, you just feel unrelenting. God, the bad guys are winning everything here. That tone kind of stayed with me for, like, a couple days. Which does not often happen. Okay. And I don't think it's about the movie. I think it is about what the Marvel Cinematic Universe sort of means to us in our lives. And without noticing it, I think it has come to mean something to people in the way that the comic books mean something to people who cared about the comic books. Like, you know, when this all started, I did not have, like, children. You know, like, I was at a different place in my life. And these movies have been there, you know, once a year or twice a year at every stage of my life. Since then. And seeing all of these characters pass away, even though I know they're not actually passing away, just sort of hit me in a way that stayed with me. And that's... Did you get a little teary-eyed when Spider-Man died? No, no, come on. No, no. Come on. I don't mean that. I don't mean Marvel.
Vic00:44:27I thought that was very emotional. He was very... Tom Holland was very good. I just mean that the... Tom Holland is great. Tom Holland is fabulous.
Guest00:44:33He's really good.
Vic00:44:35But I guess better than Andrew Garfield. That's the... Okay.
JVL00:44:39I felt that the movie sort of lingered with me in ways that I did not expect it to, in which I suspect it probably resonated with other people as well. I don't know. How did you feel about Mantis?
Vic00:44:53I don't know, Vic. What do you think about Mantis? Is she Japanese, Vic? I thought she was, but she's French. But as you said, she's actually French and Doshin. And did you look her up on the Google machine? Not only a couple times on Google Image, but no, she's... And I like her with the things on. With the things? The things. Antennas. Antennae. Antennae. And I love her. What about her voice? I think it's soothing. And she makes you feel good if she touches you. I think that's great. Go to sleep. Oh, my gosh. That's great. You'd be asleep in 90 seconds. If only I had that power. Anyway, wonderful. I loved her. And I hope she comes back again. But the question is this. This is my question. Are we looking at a Superman, Christopher Reeves, Superman resolution here, which is let me just go back in time, and then everything is, well, obviously, Iron Man, he was left there for a reason. Dr. Strange said there's only one way out of this. We're going to go backward. Do you want the spoiler?
JVL00:45:50They stole the reality stone. So when they were on Titan having the big fight with Thanos, and they were trying to pry off the glove and blah, blah, blah, they weren't doing that.
Vic00:45:57Tony Stark.
JVL00:45:57Tony Stark and Spider-Man and Mantis and Peter Quill, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They weren't actually trying to steal the whole Infinity Gauntlet. They were just trying to get the reality stone out. Because with the reality stone, they could alter what. The reality around them. And the only way to win was to convince Thanos that he had won, so that he headed off and this is going. So all these people are only dead in the alternate reality they created, and then when they undo that alternate reality. Not the time stone. The time stone was Dr. Strange's thing. You can go back. My belief is here that this is all, they actually secretly now possess the reality stone.
Vic00:46:30Did we see that it was missing from his gauntlet? No. Doesn't he have to need all the stem to do the snap?
JVL00:46:35Only for it to be real, if they are sort of in his head the whole time. The whole time, and creating, giving him what he wants to see, then he is seeing what they, in the same way that they saw when they came into the Benicio del Toro place, whatever, nowhere. They were only seeing what he wanted them to see. He is only seeing what they wanted.
Vic00:46:53Which, by the way, there was an Easter egg there. Did you read about that?
JVL00:46:56I'm the one who sort of found it. Oh, you did. But I didn't see the Easter egg. What I saw was in the credits. Right. Me too.
Vic00:47:03I saw it in the credits too. Yeah, I saw the- And Kate did too. I was like, a rest had developed. Right. Yeah. But apparently it's the brothers. The Russo brothers.
JVL00:47:10And I, you know, what I miss is, I don't, you know, like, I don't actually care about The Vision or Bucky or T'Challa or Peter Quill or even Doctor Strange, but I really like Loki. I really like Gamora. Can I say something about Zoe Saldana?
Vic00:47:24Sure.
JVL00:47:26She's a great frickin' actress. Yeah, yeah. She's great. I mean, you can put her in green makeup with a bunch of just ridiculous prosthetics on her face in a nothing role in a crazy movie, and she finds an emotional center of things.
Sonny00:47:38This is- This is why it is a much, much better Guardians of the Galaxy movie than it is an Avengers movie.
Vic00:47:44Mm-hmm.
Sonny00:47:44Yeah, I would not disagree with that. This is, this, again- She's so great. She's great. Josh Brolin is great under all that CGI. Yeah. He is, he, like, actually acts- The voice, but also the face. I mean, it's like, he, there, everything about this movie that revolves around Thanos being on the screen and doing things and having emotional beats worked for me, and if it had been two hours and ten minutes of that, I would have- I would have been thrilled with it. I would have been thrilled with it. Don't need two hours forty-six. It's not that movie. It's just, it's a mess. It's a narrative mess, is what it is. Yeah. But it doesn't matter.
JVL00:48:21But it didn't affect you. But it doesn't matter. Here's the question, though. How will audiences react when Marvel undoes this? Will there be a sense, will mass audiences respond to this the way comic book audiences responded to the death and sleep of Superman? Because when that happened, comic book audiences- This is a little pushback. They didn't say this, but they just walked away from it. They just left and said, no, I am not interested in this. And this is the Max Landis thing. They broke death. When you break the comp, you are breaking your pact with the audience. And I wonder, this is actually a very risky thing for Marvel to do. I wonder whether or not audiences will be willing to stay with them when they reveal that they, too, have decided to break the concept of death within their universe. Not that they haven't already done that with Phil Coulson. Because it turns out that fans liked Phil Coulson, and so they brought him back.
Sonny00:49:12Well, I mean, the question will be, I mean, my only thought on your theory on the reality stone is the next Avengers film will feature the actual death and removal from the universe of probably Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor. Because they can't afford them.
JVL00:49:32Because they can't afford them. And their contracts are up.
Sonny00:49:39I don't like doing predictions and guesses and all that, but my guess is that in the next Avengers movie, the original Avengers, Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man, come together, find some way to team up with probably Captain Marvel, and reverse all of this and bring back the other heroes that we lost to life, and also the rest of the universe. So their sacrifice is, we lose these four heroes for the other heroes plus half the universe. So it's a noble, you know, great sacrifice, whatever. I assume that that is what will happen, and that will keep audiences from truly rebelling.
Vic00:50:14This is like a head fake.
Sonny00:50:16Yeah.
Vic00:50:16Prior to Avengers 4, we have Ant-Man and the Wasp coming out, but we don't know if that is, when that takes place.
Sonny00:50:23Well, I'm actually kind of curious about this. So are they going to do the comic book thing where, you know, like in comic books where you would have a panel that says, this takes place before the events of Infinity War. Same thing with Captain Marvel, because that'll come out also before Avengers 4. Well, Captain Marvel is set in the 90s.
JVL00:50:38It is interesting. I do wonder if they're going to live with this world for a couple movies before they unmake it, or if they're going to feel like they have to unmake it in the next big tentpole flick, which Ant-Man is not, and which Captain Marvel is not. Those are the smaller, like Doctor Strange, smaller movies.
Sonny00:50:56So you have Ant-Man, then you have Captain Marvel, then you have the next Avengers movie. Yeah, that's right. Is that where we are? Yeah, that's the chronology of it.
JVL00:51:02Oh, well then they'll, yeah. So they'll undo it in the next Avengers flick, and...
Vic00:51:06How do you feel about Captain Marvel? Would you prefer Brie Larson or Alison Brie? Alison Brie. Alison Brie Larson.
JVL00:51:12I don't know. You know, I, so I, my feelings about Captain Marvel are that I, the only time I've ever found her interesting is when she is living within the same universe as Jessica Jones, at which point the two of them and their relationship is so great. Because, do you guys, have you, no, never read the Jessica Jones? So what happens...
Vic00:51:35I was going to say, go back to, because I know who I'm talking to now.
JVL00:51:39So the, so Jessica Jones is a, an Avenger for like five minutes in the early 90s, and she is the worst superhero ever, and she is underpowered, and her, she's a train wreck of a person who just can't hack it. And Captain Marvel is essentially like the Superman, the Clark Kent slash Superman of superheroes, which he just got everything together and is super, and they become like best friends, but it's like your best friend in high school when one of you is like failing out of vo-tech and the other is going to Harvard. But you still remain best friends anyway. That's interesting. And it's great. Like the shtick between the two of them is so fantastic. And so that's the only time I've ever liked Captain Marvel, and I hope that Jessica Jones is in the movie.
Vic00:52:18I hope we have that to look forward to.
JVL00:52:20Yeah. Can I, can I ask you a question? Please. So how much did Natalie Portman hate being in Marvel movies? I'll rewind. Wait a minute. Because everybody in the world came back for this flick, except for Natalie Portman. Even Gwyneth Paltrow, whose contract was up, came back for 30 seconds of this.
Vic00:52:39I forgot about her to Thor. Who else didn't come back?
JVL00:52:41Jeremy Renner. Hugo Weaving. That's not true. That was not Hugo Weaving. That was not Hugo Weaving? Richard Marquand or something. Oh! It was not. He was doing a Hugo Weaving impression.
Sonny00:52:50But he was. Because I thought it was Hugo Weaving. Yeah. Because he nailed the Hugo Weaving voice, but it was not Hugo Weaving.
Vic00:52:56No, he was, Hugo Weaving was back in Red Skull.
Sonny00:52:57The Red Skull there makes no sense.
JVL00:53:00It makes no sense, having the Red Skull be there. It's set by the space stone.
Vic00:53:04When we, when we watched Captain America with, with, Michael, the first time Michael said, I bet you he's not dead, he's somewhere else. And then when we watched it in the theater, he leaves the room and goes, I told you.
JVL00:53:15We've been waiting for him to come back for 16 movies. Why has he been transformed into the soul stone keeper? Into the grim, the grim reaper. It doesn't matter. He looks like death. It doesn't matter. So the answer is, I kind of like this movie. And do you know who loved the movie? Who? You don't want to guess? Oh, a pod!
Sonny00:53:33Apparently. Yeah, John, John loved it. Of course he loved it, because it's nothing but jokes and shtick for, you know. No, it's not. No, there's a lot of fighting. Did you notice all the fighting?
JVL00:53:43There was some fighting. I do want to say, I think that this, because there is no arc to it, will have very low rewatchability.
Vic00:53:51That's what I was going to say. How many people want to come back to watch that again, to go through that experience?
JVL00:53:56The first Avengers, I think, is an incredibly, I've said this before, I will say it again, an incredibly rewatchable movie, because the trick it manages is giving all five of the characters very real character arcs. That's what is so engaging about it. You're watching progress, and there are emotional payoffs everywhere. This, there's one emotional payoff, and it's the idea of death and loss, and anybody who knows anything about comic books understands going in that it isn't really death and loss anyway. And so I just don't know that anybody's going to want to come back to this. I agree. I was trying to think this. If you want to rewatch an Avengers movie five years from now, I don't think it'll be this one.
Vic00:54:33Yeah, and sit through two hours and 46 minutes with that ending. I mean, it's important for people who are into these movies to have that. I've seen the movie, but I don't know about going back. It's exhausting, and I'll be curious to see how it does next weekend.
Sonny00:54:44But this is the real thing, right? Is that it is, we'll get to that in a second. This is the real thing about this movie, right? Is that it is, it is a, it is not a feature film. It is a episode of a TV show. It is, it is a connective tissue in a comic. I mean, it really, it is like, it does not work as a standalone film. No, it's not a story. It's not a story. And I don't know. It is a bridge for a product. It is. How do you, like, it's very, it's a very frustrating thing to deal with as a critic, because I, like, if you take it on its own terms, it is, I guess, a successful film. But its own terms are stupid and anti-art. So I don't, I don't think you can really take it on its own terms. I think that's, that's exceeding to evil. Right. And I'm. Evil? Yeah. Okay. I mean, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's an, so I've been, it doesn't matter. The, the, but the, the, I, but it, it is your. You are just giving into, like, the forces of, of nonsense. And I'm not, I'm not a nonsensical person, JVL. I'm a serious person.
JVL00:55:47Do you know what the average domestic gross for a Marvel movie is?
Sonny00:55:51Uh, let me, I, I actually did know this at one point. Is it 280?
JVL00:55:57329. Oh, jeez. 329 million is the. It's crazy. Average. It's crazy. These things. It's incredible. I, I will say it is also. It. It is a, clearly the case that Marvel knows what they're doing, that they are hiding the football on this with not, you know, unlike, uh, The Hobbit Part 1 and Part 2 or.
Sonny00:56:20Well, remember they renamed it. They, when they initially announced this slate, they called it Avengers Infinity War Part 1 and then one year later, Avengers Infinity War Part 2. Right. And they changed that. They were like, oh. No. We can't do that.
JVL00:56:32They are hiding the football on what they have done here. And this is why, again, I think they risk an audience back. And, um, that, again, people won't say that they, you know, I feel cheated because they know, they know Black Panther has to come back.
Sonny00:56:47Nobody wants T'Challa to be dead. Nobody wants Spider-Man to be dead. Nobody wants, I mean, everybody wants those characters back. Everybody wants the Groot and Rocket back. And Falker.
JVL00:56:55I just want, you know, I want Gamora and Loki and Nick Fury and Maria Hill. And, and. Where's my Nick Fury, Maria Hill movie? And Mantis. Oh, Vic, do you want Mantis back?
Vic00:57:07And Maria Hill. Is that, is that a. That was, that was the lady who was. Corby Comer? Nick Fury, yes, that's Corby Comer. Oh, good. I hope she comes back. Okay, I think we need to move on. Do we? Yeah, well, no, you have any other thoughts?
Sonny00:57:20Do we think, do we think this movie will, uh, how, how, what do we, what do we think the end result of this in terms of gross is? Because really the only interesting way to talk about this movie is as a product. Yeah. And as a, uh, I mean, it made, it, it, it made the most money globally ever in a weekend by a giant margin, by like $130 million, and it hasn't even opened in China or Russia yet. So I, like, I, this, the, the ceiling on this is what? Two and a half billion dollars?
JVL00:57:50I don't know, internationally. Uh, domestically, I mean, with just a three multiplier, it does $750, which puts it as the number one all time by like 10% extra. I mean, a huge, like Black Panther's at $688, that puts it at $688. This is at $750, that's a...
Sonny00:58:10What's Avatar, Avatar is what? No, that's not the number one domestically all time.
JVL00:58:15Oh, right, I'm sorry, yeah, I'm looking at, I'm sorry, I'm looking at a different, different list. The answer is a lot of money. All the money, in fact.
Sonny00:58:23I mean, I, like, I just, I, I, I'm curious to see how it holds. Yeah, right, exactly.
JVL00:58:27Because I don't know, does it drop, does it drop by 40% next weekend? Bunch's theory of restaurant quality, I might say that clearly this might be one of the Of course. The Chili's? Well, I mean, really, it's more like the McDonald's of... The McDonald's of movies, so it has the most money in the most theaters. Yeah, no, just like Black Panther, I mean... So it must be...
Sonny00:58:50We are living, we're truly living in a golden age of cinema right now. Force Awakens, Black Panther, uh...
JVL00:58:56I still haven't seen that out of respect, I'm waiting for the, uh, waiting for streaming.
Sonny00:59:00It's still doing, it, it, I think it dropped... Oh, it's still... It dropped, like, 1% this weekend or something. But it's still, yeah, it's still there. It is, it is lingering on. This is my, my... I'm, I, I, this is why I think Infinity War might have an issue, uh, getting into that 700, 750 range, is just because there's so much other competition. Oh, yeah, by the next couple. I mean... Not next week, but... Not next week, not the week after that. Next week belongs to the Avengers. But then there's Deadpool 2, then there's... Deadpool 2's the next one. Then there's Solo, then there's, you know, every, then every weekend after that for a while is a big event film, so... Okay. It has to, it has to do about $650 million these first three weekends, which it might... Yeah. It might.
Vic00:59:39Yeah, pretty easy. Yeah. Plus the budget on this thing, which is, uh, of course not mentioned on Mojo, but, uh...
JVL00:59:45I, I wonder, how does this compare with the Justice League movie, budget-wise? Oh. Because this movie, what else do you want to say about it? I think they both cost... Like a million, I mean, you see every dollar on the screen.
Sonny00:59:54I think they both cost $300 million. Mm-hmm. So...
JVL00:59:57Are you, this was the same price tag as Justice League?
Sonny00:59:59That is the number I've been seeing, so I... Everybody at Warner's ought to lose their job. Yeah, right. Everyone.
Vic01:00:04Every single person involved with that movie.
Sonny01:00:06You didn't see the money on that.
JVL01:00:07My God. I mean... That's really...
Vic01:00:10Yeah.
?01:00:11Okay.
Vic01:00:12Okay. Wow. Let's, uh, I think we need to move on.
JVL01:00:16Hold on, I'm looking. Uh, uh, oh, she's got a very difficult name. Palm Clementieff? Yes.
Vic01:00:22Oh, yeah, I know. I couldn't remember her name. Oh, she's, she's Canadian. Wonderful. Just wonderful.
JVL01:00:28She's, she's not French. She's Canadian. Born in Quebec City, in Canada.
Vic01:00:32Canada! Canada! Delightful. Corrections editions. Um, let me just... Let me just say, for our listeners, we are taking off next week.
Sonny01:00:42Yeah, we're taking a week off. Because there's nothing in theaters, because it's just in Avengers Infinity War. We just need a break from each other, uh, as well. Uh, spirit... It's not, it's not you kids. It's not you. It's us. It's mom and dad. We just, we need to take a little bit of time.
Vic01:00:57Spirit of the week is Filibuster, the Boondoggler. Thank you very much to our friends at Filibuster, which is out in Virginia. There are a bunch of distilleries out in Virginia now, and they're all booming. Please visit one. Support Virginia. Uh, distilleries. Um, and that's all the time we are giving to this episode. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments, tweet us at Victorino Matus, at Sonny Bunch.
Sonny01:01:20At JBLast.
Vic01:01:21Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes or Google Play. Just type in Substandard under podcasts, and we're there. Leave a review, tell your friends. Until next time. Uh, I forgot to tell you, you know, I've started to, uh, run again, a little bit. Hey! You know, maybe three times a week. And I shouldn't have mentioned this, uh, to, uh, uh, Captain Bill Dwyer's, uh, family, because, um, Mrs. Bill Dwyer, Erin, uh, Dwyer, uh, she's an avid marathon runner. And she said, that's it, I gotta sign you up. Are you doing it? So, uh, I'm going something very marathon-ish. Marathon-ish. So I'm not quite there yet, and I have till September to get ready for the next one.
JVL01:02:08Are you gonna do the R.M. reduced marathon?
Vic01:02:13R.M., this is, but only slightly, only slightly. The reduced gluttony marathon. I am going, she said she's signing me up, and we're gonna do it together, the 9-11 run that begins at the Pentagon. Runs up to New York City? It's slightly less than a marathon. It's 5K, I don't know how many miles, it's like 20 miles, I think it's like 20 miles, 5K. And, uh, but I have, uh, a couple months to get ready for that.
JVL01:02:35How far do you run when you go out running now? Just out of curiosity.
Vic01:02:38I'm not. I'm not revealing, I'm not revealing this. I, okay, so I got the Under Armour, uh, Map My Run app for the first time on my phone. You know what you need. I don't have the, I don't have the watch.
JVL01:02:48You need an Apple Watch Series 3 Nike for athletes.
Vic01:02:54Uh, so I ran, uh, 2. I have one. I did, uh, 2.26, uh, miles, uh, and that, and I, and I almost died. I almost, JVL, I almost died. Some of that was uphill. Some of that was uphill. I'm sure it's fine
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