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#112. The Substandard on The Americans
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(JVL is out this week.) Vic and Sonny record from Free Beacon Studio 2A for a short micro-episode.
Dudes Chatting — The Americans: Vic confesses he initially resisted rooting for Soviet spies posing as Americans, but came around. Sonny breaks down the central dynamic: Philip is "America curious," genuinely seduced by the country he's infiltrating, while Elizabeth is a true-believer ideologue, making her the show's moral compass of menace. They note the show's reactionary subtext — the Sandinistas are the bad guys, the civil rights spy is a communist plant — and trace Elizabeth's steady moral decline as the series progresses.
Full transcript
Vic00:00:00Hello, and welcome to another micro-episode of The Substandard, brought to you by Casper Mattresses. Casper is a sleep brand that makes expertly designed products to help you get your best rest one night at a time. All Casper products are designed, developed, and assembled in the U.S., and prices are affordable because Casper cuts out the middleman and sells directly to you. Plus, there's a 100-night risk-free sleep-on-it trial. Get $50 toward select mattresses by visiting casper.com slash substandard and using promo code substandard at checkout. That's casper.com slash substandard and use promo code substandard for $50 off select mattresses. Terms and conditions apply. I'm Victor Mattis, along with Sonny Bunch. Just a quick reminder. Wait, where's just the two of us today? Just a quick reminder that full episodes of The Substandard are available every Thursday at 11 a.m. Yes. It's awfully airy in here. Why is that?
Sonny00:01:06Well, we're taping at the Washington Free Beacon palatial conference room.
Vic00:01:13What I like to call Studio 2A.
Sonny00:01:15Studio 2A. Unfortunately, JVL could not join us today. There were some family issues with scheduling and stuff.
Vic00:01:24He is stuck at home, and we're not Skype accessible.
Sonny00:01:26We're not Skype accessible. We probably could be, but I'm just not going to. I'm frankly not going to figure that out because I don't want to give him the excuse of Skyping into our office all the time.
Vic00:01:37No, it doesn't cut it.
Sonny00:01:39Yeah.
Vic00:01:39And you don't like Skype anyway.
Sonny00:01:41I don't like Skype. Well, I don't like doing the show over Skype because there's a very real interpersonal dynamic, right? And once you start doing that over the phone, it just doesn't.
Vic00:01:51You've got to be able to read each other and look at each other's facial expressions the way we do on our show.
Sonny00:01:57Yeah. And this is one of the reasons also why I hate Facebook Live, which we don't do anymore, is because it throws off that whole thing. I don't want you people seeing me staring deeply into Vic's eyes. No. I just want to be able to do it.
Vic00:02:12You're not supposed to see how the sausage gets made. No, nobody wants that. So to speak. But you know what? And not to panic. Everyone's going to panic about this. We should be on air sometime on Thursday. I said 11 a.m. It's probably going to be a little bit later, but it may practically be.
Sonny00:02:26Because we are actually taping on.
Vic00:02:27It'll be like Sound of Music and Jesus Christ Superstar. It'll be live, right? It'll be like a live NBC event. Speaking of television. Speaking of television, Sonny, I always thought this was a good opportunity for us, with JVL not here, to talk about shows that you and I watch and he doesn't. Yes. Yes. So I think today we are talking about The Americans. The Americans. Were you always a fan of it from day one, or did you get turned on to it from somebody else?
Sonny00:02:53So the first season, I watched the first episode. I loved it. Loved it. And then, like, seven episodes piled up on my DVR. I just, like, I didn't have time to watch, couldn't watch. And then I watched them all one weekend, one Saturday afternoon or something. I binged. I binged, and it was great, and I was totally hooked after that. So I've been kind of on Team American since day one.
Vic00:03:20I was a few years later, and I'll tell you why. I had this preconceived notion that, you know, I don't want to watch a show that I don't like. I don't want to watch, and I bet you a lot of people think this, who don't watch The Americans on FX. I don't want to watch a show where the protagonists are Soviet spies, because then what, am I rooting for them against America?
Sonny00:03:38Exactly. Against us? But that's not what the show's like at all. It's not like it. It's not The Sopranos, right? It's not The Sopranos.
Vic00:03:44In The Sopranos, I don't want them to get caught up by the FBI. I was hoping, you know, Tony gets away with, you know, all these things like that. But in The Americans, I'm rooting personally for the, I don't know about you, but I'm rooting for the FBI.
Sonny00:03:56Yeah, well, no, what I'm rooting for, and this is where I think the show is going, is for the couple to have an actual break. You know, from the start of the show, Philip has been kind of team, he's been team, he's America curious.
Vic00:04:19Oh, totally America curious.
Sonny00:04:20He's America curious, as they would say.
Vic00:04:22What does he buy, a Trans Am or a Camaro?
Sonny00:04:24Yeah, he's like, but he is like, he's into the whole,
?00:04:26I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
Sonny00:04:26Like, kind of, you know, America as, like, a land of freedom and, like, consumer access and that sort of thing. All the good things about America, stuff. We have so much stuff. Dishwashing machines. And that's really, and again, that is why we won the Cold Wars, because of all of our stuff. Yeah. And she is much more of a true believer. She is, she wants to get their daughter involved in, like, fomenting the cause of international communism. Like, she is, like, an actual believer in the Soviet ideal. And so my hope for the show is not that they get caught by the FBI. I mean, look, we already know America is going to win until, like, 2016 anyway. We'll have a good run there.
Vic00:05:08It's a good run. It's a good run. And then they'll be reactivated as super agents.
Sonny00:05:11But we, I mean, we know America is going to win. That's not what's interesting or fun. What is interesting is watching the actual tension, the actual ideological tension within the family as it reflects the global tension.
Vic00:05:25That's right. It's metaphorical. I find it so amazing to watch this. And we are now maybe 1986. I think they're heading towards Geneva Summit, 85, 86. And it's hard to believe from their perspective. And I remember at that time, if you were to tell me that within three years, you know, the dissolution of communism would begin in Eastern Europe in the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. And then within the next two years, no more Soviet Union. You know, I mean, that's inconceivable. And for them, they can't do that. I can't imagine this is actually where it's going. So it's interesting after the first episode of the series finale that there's forces at work actually trying to stop Gorbachev from within. And of course, naturally, Elizabeth is on that side.
Sonny00:06:12Sure, right. And this is, again, kind of where the whole show has been building. The liberalizers want Philip to basically spy on his own family to try and turn off the hardliners. But anyway, I've always loved this show, and I try not to subject my viewing pleasures to ideological litmus tests, but it's the most reactionary show on TV. I mean, it is really, it is like, you know, we have spent so much time being told that the Soviet Union wasn't a real threat. That's right. And this show is like, no, actually, like, the Contras were bad. No, no, no, the other way around. I'm sorry, the Sandinistas were bad. The Sandinistas were bad. There was a show that was co-written by Ollie North. Ollie North co-wrote, and it's all, and that whole season is all about how the Sandinistas were a real threat. They were a beachhead for a communist insurgency, and they're, like, committing murders all over the place. They're terrible.
Vic00:07:12Were those the episodes also involving Andrew Larrick, the crazy Navy officer, the Navy spy? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, played by...
Sonny00:07:19Who, who, crazy Navy spy who was totally right about the Sandinistas and needing to take them out, and, like, did more to disrupt, like, the... You know, the whole Soviet spy ring in the United States than the FBI has in the five seasons of the show.
Vic00:07:33He's a few steps ahead, Larrick was, and he was played by the great Lee Tergesen, who was a few years older than my wife, went to the same school, along with Gretchen Maul. But, yeah, he was fantastic. But, again, when you talk about the exposing of evil, I mean, again, they're not making you side with them, because I think about the terrible things that Elizabeth Jennings has done, right, looking back over the years, okay? I'd say one of the worst is breaking up that Korean family. Yeah, breaking up. Yeah, there's that. I felt like I could relate to the guy.
Sonny00:08:06Yeah, because you would have totally, you know...
Vic00:08:09I would have woken up and said, well, since we did it, we might as well. Let's just do it again now. Here's my daughter. And, let me save you some time. Here's the key. That's what I would say. Oh, and go ahead.
Sonny00:08:21Well, no, I mean, and this is all taking a huge toll on her.
Vic00:08:25Even though she doesn't believe she has, she has a soul she knows somewhere deep inside. It's just cold and rotten and very... Whatever's left is very brittle. There's nothing left inside.
Sonny00:08:34Yeah, the whole point of the first episode of the new season... You've seen it, right, Vic? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole point of the first episode of the new season, you see it in several montages,
Vic00:08:46is just her...
Sonny00:08:49The toll this has taken on her. Philip has gotten out. Philip has gotten... He's not doing any more murdering. No.
Vic00:08:57He's doing the Texas...
Sonny00:08:59What do you call it? What do you call it? Line dancing. He's doing Texas line dancing. It's great. He's just living his life. He's living like an actual American. And Elizabeth is... She looks like hell. She looks awful. She looks terrible. She looks like she's... But no, I mean, it's just... It's great. And it has... Again, the show has all of these kind of like... Little mini pseudo-reactionary subplots. Remember from the first season, the civil rights activist, who was actually a communist spy? Right, the radical spy. Which was always like the right-wing talking point about the civil rights movement.
Vic00:09:34You know, they're actually working against America. And they were. They were.
Sonny00:09:38There was the South African ring
Vic00:09:42who did the necklace to the guy. Yeah, they necklaced the guy.
Sonny00:09:45Which is always like... I mean, it's like these are like... And look, you can make the argument that these are people who are working for larger goals. But the whole point is these are horrible... Awful people who are doing terrible things. That's right. And, you know, that's what global communism looks like.
Vic00:10:02No, it's always for this greater good. You think about the... She forces the old lady where they're repairing... The place where they're repairing the robot. Mail room. Robot. And she forces the old lady to commit suicide by overdosing on pills. And before... And it's an awful thing. And she feels like, okay, this woman's gonna die. I can just be myself. And they have this discussion back and forth about what she does. And the old lady calls her out. And she says, this is BS. She says, you know... She looks at her and she says, you are evil. And then she dies.
Sonny00:10:33Yeah.
Vic00:10:33But I do enjoy, again, reliving the 80s. As you know, I'm several years older than you. And I remember...
Sonny00:10:41One or two.
Vic00:10:42One or two. Going through this time. And you know what I remember? I remember the day after. Yeah. Because we... Because that was a big to-do. Everybody had to watch the day after with Jason Robards. And I watched it. But, of course, it was such a long show that we didn't watch it. We didn't actually get to how it was resolved. So, you know, I think the missiles were about to fly and then my mother just said, okay, time for bed. So... Who knows what happens. Yeah. I'm sure it was fun.
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