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#108. The Substandard Bracket-Busting Episode
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Dudes Chatting — UMBC upsets Virginia and March Madness: A micro-episode centered on the first-ever 16-seed upset of a 1-seed in NCAA tournament history: UMBC 74, Virginia 54. JVL is delighted, both by the historic upset and by Duke's eventual exit from the tournament; he relishes the suffering of his Duke-superfan father-in-law. Sonny makes clear he does not care about college basketball, which he dismisses as a minor league sport existing primarily to funnel players to the NBA — he has no bracket and no rooting interest. Vic occupies the middle, acknowledging the drama. The guys also note Georgetown's painful 15-15 season under first-year head coach Patrick Ewing, which JVL treats as a source of civic sadness.
Full transcript
Vic00:00:00Jonathan V. Incredible performance, shock and awe, in college basketball, UMBC makes history in Charlotte. Welcome to another micro-episode of The Substandard, brought to you by The Black Tux. Everyone wants to look as great as their date at a wedding or special event. Trouble is, there's no way you want to spend the amount of time or money she did shopping for her outfit. TheBlackTux.com is your answer, with high-quality rental suits and tuxedos delivered to your doorstep. Suits usually retail for $1,200. But I'm going to show you how to get them for $1,200.
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Vic00:00:39Let's get started. But at TheBlackTux, they start at just $95. To get $20 off your purchase, visit TheBlackTux.com slash Substandard. That's TheBlackTux.com slash Substandard for $20 off your purchase. TheBlackTux. Premium rental suits and tuxedos delivered. I'm Victor Matus, along with Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Just a quick reminder that full episodes of TheSubstandard are available every Thursday at 11 a.m. Gentlemen, how are you? How are we? Sonny.
Sonny00:01:11I'm fine.
Vic00:01:12You're fine. So, for listeners who might not know, Sonny is a graduate of?
Sonny00:01:20The University of Virginia. The University of Virginia. Which one? The good one. Not at Wise.
JVL00:01:26Oh. What's the other one? I think there's one at Wise. Wise.
Vic00:01:30I don't know. There's some other ones. I didn't even know that. And I'm sure you have many fun.
Sonny00:01:34Undergrad, not graduate. I didn't go to graduate school like a sucker.
Vic00:01:37I thought that's where you did your PhD. I didn't get a skill. I thought you got your PhD.
Sonny00:01:40I didn't get a business degree or a law degree. I'm stuck here writing about TV and talking to you idiots twice a week. You have a degree in snark.
Vic00:01:48Yes.
Sonny00:01:50That's really just an inborn talent. That's not a thing that you can educate yourself in. He studied the cynics, and then he was totally taken in by them.
Vic00:01:58Thank you. I did study classics. I know you did. And I'm sure you have many fond memories there. But I would say last Friday night was not one of those kind of memories, especially if you are a current student or recent alumni, for in the first time in NCAA history, a number one seed finally fell to a number 16 seed. The 16th seed was UMBC, which I thought, as soon as I saw it flash, I thought it was University of Maryland Bethesda campus. That's what I thought it was. I was off by several.
Sonny00:02:31I had a friend who was like, you lost to UMUC. That's that thing that they always advertise on the radio. I was like, no, that's University. Maryland University of Maryland University College. That's right. That is like the most made up, very strong program. Also as strong. Well, they would probably be a two in the first round.
Vic00:02:49So they were the 16th seed and the number one seed, not just the number one, but the number one overall was UVA. And the final score was it wasn't a it wasn't a heart stopper.
JVL00:03:02This was so 74, 54 JVL go. Here is what's so crazy about this. We all knew that eventually. A 16 would be the number one. And I think we've all been prepared for that. We were the Princeton Georgetown near 1989.
Vic00:03:16I think that was remember.
JVL00:03:17I mean, we all assumed, I think, or at least I did, that when this happened, it would be this insane buzzer beater climax, unbelievable. And instead, this thing wasn't close after the first half. They were tied at the end of the first half. And then the first four minutes, UMBC jumped out to a huge lead and never looked back. And here's the way these things work. You know, people in college basketball always look back and say, but do you realize that if Villanova had, they shot 60% from three-point range to win the title against Georgetown in the Patrick Ewing game. But if they had only shot 58%, they would have lost. Here, they shot, I think the Rovers shot 54% from the field for the game. They shot 50% from behind the arc. And had you just lowered all those by like five percentage points, they still would have won. They went and won by seven. Right, they would have won by seven instead of 20. Yeah, but I mean, it was a dominating performance. And it was amazing. And the whole time, I just kept thinking, what is Sonny's pose going to be? Is it going to be the studied indifference of the man who doesn't care? Well, I mean, you have a history of not following
Sonny00:04:22college basketball.
Vic00:04:22I remember this.
Sonny00:04:24We should go listen to last year's March Madness episode. Because Sonny cares about the Lakers and the Packers, but not UVA, where he went to college. Well, and the Baltimore Orioles. That's right. No, I-
JVL00:04:37You are a mystery when it comes to sports.
Vic00:04:38Well, I just-
Sonny00:04:39Here's where you're kind of misunderstanding things, is I don't care about college basketball in the same way I don't care about women's, the WNBA. Or I don't care about hockey. Or I don't care about-
JVL00:04:55I'm glad you added WNBA.
Sonny00:04:58Why?
JVL00:04:59You're just going to stop with, I don't care about women's.
Sonny00:05:01Women's sports in general. Well, I mean, that's a given. But like, no, I mean, I just don't care about college. I don't care about minor league. I don't care about minor league athletics. I don't go to the Potomac Cannons like you go to. Minor league? I don't go to-
Vic00:05:14NCAA minor league? I don't care about-
Sonny00:05:16Those guys are paid tons. I don't-
JVL00:05:18Just ask Calipari's players.
Sonny00:05:19I don't, you know, get excited to go see, like, high school kids play soccer. Like, why would I care about college? I mean, if I want to watch- It's competition. If I want to watch a sport, I'll watch professionals playing at the top of their game. I don't care about these- No, this is a misunderstanding of sport. No, it's a misunderstanding. You're there for the passion. No, I'm not. But I'm not there for the passion. I actually don't care about passion. I hate passion. You know why?
JVL00:05:41Because you hate people. Well, exactly.
Sonny00:05:43No, I think this is very true. I'm not kidding. No, I'm not kidding either. I do hate people. And, I mean, so, I haven't filled out a bracket in 10 years. Yeah, I found that so surprising. And before the tournament even started, I was tweeting about how UVA was going to lose in the second round, because that's what we do every year. I was only off by one round. Only off by one round. That's pretty good, I think. And it was funny. I was actually looking back through my Twitter history. Three years ago, in 2015, I tweeted, UVA, which I think had a second seed that year, a number two seed, I tweeted something like, UVA losing in the first round as a number two seed would be the most UVA thing to happen. I was wrong. Losing as a number one seed. The team that lost to Chaminade 30 or 40 years ago. Famously. You know, that is, the most UVA thing to do would be to lose in the first round to a 16 seed. And, Allah will, build it.
JVL00:06:40Victorino. JVL. Now, Georgetown's seed this year was, were they a four? Because I did not pay attention to the brackets No, I'm sure you did not.
Vic00:06:49And I was, I was hoping that maybe they might be a 16 seed in the NIT, but they did not get invited to that. And what's the third tournament? What? They didn't get invited to the NIT? And I'll tell you why. We finished with 15 and 15 under our new coach, Patrick Ewing. And, but, the problem was strength of schedule, non-conference was, I believe, they say, the worst strength of schedule for any Division I school in the entire United States. You know where to go but up. That's exactly right. And he, so we needed those easy wins to get up to the, you know, so we got ultimately to 15. But, you know, the committee notices these things. What is the third tournament that if you don't make it to the NIT, there's like a, there's something, there's like a charity.
JVL00:07:33Here's my question for you. Sure. Which is worse? If you're a fan who cares about these things. So let's, pretend you care.
Sonny00:07:40Like you care.
JVL00:07:40Which is worse? Being the number one overall seed and being the first ever to lose to a 16 or not making the tournament?
Vic00:07:47Being the number one seed and losing to a 16. Oh yeah, that's way worse. Yeah, because it's just. Well,
JVL00:07:51because you're remembered for, you're a part of history then. Yeah,
Sonny00:07:53but that's the thing. But that's the thing is that this is going to show up in like a hundred years of NCAA.
JVL00:07:59It may not happen for another 135 games. I'm sorry, but it matters because you're remembered. I mean, isn't making it into posterity what's important? It doesn't matter what, how you make it to posterity. No, no, no,
Vic00:08:09it doesn't matter. People remember you. if you're UM. Good point, Sonny. If we were not too bit shy, we could have just ended it on that. My fear was always in the tournament that Georgetown, if they were, if there was ever a one seed to lose in the first round, I said guaranteed it would be Georgetown, especially under JT3. Of course, we never got that, but we lost. Had he gotten a one seed, he could have lost it. Yeah, that's right. And we did lose as a two seed. And the only reason why a lot of people tend to forget that is it's the same. We lost the same time. As another two seed Duke, and people like to remember Duke losing as a two. Of course,
JVL00:08:42Duke is cruising their way on their way to the finals. Which brings me to the thing which brought me the most. So I have no rooting interest in college basketball whatsoever. I like it when Georgetown loses. But as somebody who went to a division three school and hates that, that division three school. I have a question. Which is the bad thing. Question.
Vic00:08:58What is the Johns Hopkins mascot?
JVL00:09:00Blue Jays. Blue Jays. The Blue Jays. The only pleasure I drive is from Duke losing. Yeah. And because I hate Duke. The way everybody hates Duke. Although I hate it even a little more. My father-in-law, who I love. A lovely man. I think I've told you guys this before.
Vic00:09:14He's a huge supporter. He's a booster. He's a booster. Huge Duke fan.
JVL00:09:17I can't remember the last time I saw him. This is, a hand to God, this is true. Not wearing Duke paraphernalia. Like no matter. During the season? Or just in general? Period. There is always a Duke shirt, or a sweatshirt, or a jacket, or the polo, golf polo.
Vic00:09:35Duke everything. And that's because he went there for, like undergrad, grad. He has been on the Duke campus once. That was my next question. This was a late, late life pilgrimage.
JVL00:09:46He visited. He went to the Duke campus. For? But he loves them because, They're winners. They play the right way. They're winners.
Sonny00:09:53Do they play the right way?
JVL00:09:54And they play the right way. That coach. And it's, what's weird is that he takes, this perverse pride, in Duke. Like there's a real, like he's part of the tribe. And so I will, every year I have these conversations with him. So, did you see their recruiting class? They're like, no, no I didn't dad. What does it look like? Three more All-Americans. Plus, consensus number one player in the country. Come to Duke. You know why? No dad. Why?
Sonny00:10:20Because they're winners. And they know that Coach K plays the right way.
JVL00:10:23And this is the last time he was down. I'm just, you know, we're in the kitchen. The kids are playing. I'm making lunches for people. And my father-in-law walks up to me and says, you know who the number one highest paid coach is in the whole country in college basketball? And so, knowing what's coming, I just played. I said, no dad, I have no idea who it is. Is it Calipari? He goes, no, no it's not. It's Coach K. He's a winner, you know. And so when they lose, and the fact that, that with UVA out and now UNC out, I think the ACC has, has been exposed as being overrated. Well,
Sonny00:10:59half the teams left in the, or a quarter of the teams left in the Sweet 16 are ACC teams, I think. Is that right? Are they? I don't know.
JVL00:11:05But I would say that they're,
Vic00:11:07and they were forced to play, play an away game at Charlotte.
JVL00:11:10So I think Duke is a good chance to go out again, and when they do, it's going to be delicious.
Vic00:11:16I, yeah,
JVL00:11:17I'm sure it'll be fine.
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