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#101. The Substandard on Clint Eastwood, North Korea, and 50 Shades of Vic
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Dudes Chatting — Eagles encore and North Korea at the Olympics: A brief Eagles victory lap (JVL is still elated) before the conversation turns dark: JVL is furious at Western media outlets fawning over Kim Yo-Jong, Kim Jong-un's sister, at the Pyeongchang Olympics, treating her as a charming diplomatic presence rather than a senior official of a slave state. Sonny agrees the coverage was embarrassing. The guys also mourn the death of film composer Jóhann Jóhannsson (Arrival, Sicario), with Sonny calling him one of the great contemporary film composers.
Dudes Chatting — Clint Eastwood: A full career retrospective prompted by The 15:17 to Paris. Sonny and Vic work through the Eastwood filmography — High Plains Drifter, Unforgiven (peak Eastwood, universally agreed), Gran Torino, In the Line of Fire, Million Dollar Baby — debating which films hold up and which represent his late-career drift. Sonny recounts a personal encounter with Eastwood at a film event.
Box Office: Fifty Shades Freed opens at #1. Peter Rabbit at #2 is flagged for an in-film allergy scene that prompted a boycott campaign. The 15:17 to Paris lands at #3.
Reviews: Gene (Vic) reviews Fifty Shades Freed with an unrelenting string of sex puns, awarding it 5 stars. Sonny reviews The 15:17 to Paris as a genuinely strange Eastwood experiment: casting the real Alek Skarlatos, Anthony Sadler, and Spencer Stone as themselves produces something that is oddly languid and anti-cinematic yet strangely fascinating as a documentary-fiction hybrid — he calls it worth seeing precisely because nothing like it exists.
Spirit of the Week: Tin Cup Colorado straight bourbon. Corrections segment included.
Full transcript
JVL00:00:00I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kind of lost track myself. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do you, punk?
Vic00:00:27Hello, and welcome to another edition of The Substandard, sponsored by Quip Electric, Toothbrush, and Casper Mattress. I'm Victor Matus, along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last. I'd like to remind you, The Substandard is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. Just look at a podcast and search for Substandard. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a review. Gentlemen, how are we? JVL, it kind of looks like the afterglow is now fading a little bit. How does it feel a week after?
JVL00:00:57It feels amazing. I read a piece on Monday morning from a website that I like a lot. The Washington Free Beacon.
Vic00:01:07Yes. I've heard of it.
Sonny00:01:08Which one of you edited it?
Vic00:01:11There were things I...
Sonny00:01:12One of the worst things I've ever read on our website.
Vic00:01:15There were some things I had to restrain and other things I thought, you know what? JVL, would you like to describe this piece? All his glory, I thought, I'm just going to let it be him, and that'll speak for itself. Go ahead.
JVL00:01:25It's fantastic. Your colleague. Steven.
Vic00:01:27Yes, of course, of course.
JVL00:01:29Steven Gutowski.
Vic00:01:30Gutowski. Gutowski.
JVL00:01:32A true believer. From Philly. Oh, yeah. Who has seen, by his own reportage, every single minute of every Philadelphia Eagles football game since he was a child.
Vic00:01:43As he says, yes.
JVL00:01:45Never thought this would happen. He drove up to Philadelphia the night of the Super Bowl just to go wilding in Center City as it happened.
Vic00:01:56He...
JVL00:01:56Which is... Which is what I would have done if I didn't have children.
Vic00:01:59Would you have climbed a pole the way he did? Probably not. I don't like heights. He... Sonny.
JVL00:02:04But he climbed a pole. He did.
Sonny00:02:05You know, the thing about Gutowski is that he didn't just go to watch the game in the middle of Philadelphia so he could be with his people. He stayed there for a whole week.
Vic00:02:20Well, yeah. It was a whole week.
Sonny00:02:21He just got there and he sent our boss, Matt, an email. He was like, I'm staying in Philly forever. I'll write about the parade. And he did that. And it's literally one of the most terrifyingly exuberant things I've ever read. I mean, it's like if you put the brain of a five-year-old into the body of a middle-aged man. It's a tremendous piece of journalism.
JVL00:02:49And I'm going to nominate it for a magazine piece of the year award. Please do. National Magazine Award. It was great. Can I play mop-up from our Monday micro-episode? Sure, of course. I can't even remember. I can't even remember. What did we talk about? We talked about the Olympics. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about the Olympics a little bit. And I had wanted to mention Kim Yo-Jong. Please. Kim Yo-Jong. Please. The North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un's 30-year-old sister, who you probably noticed over the weekend got all sorts of attention for how awesome she was. And look, she's giving side-eye to Mike Pence, and he hates the gays. So, yeah, you know, stick it to Mike Pence. Yay to labor camps. This is like cheering for Joseph Goebbels at the 1936 Olympics. It is freaking monstrous. It's amazing, though. It's amazing. And as I have watched these Olympics, because as I said on Monday, I've watched a lot of it, whenever I see the North Korean athletes, like, you know, on the bench, the ice-skating rink team, or the cheerleaders, you have to look at them. You have to look at those people and know that they know that if they make the slightest screw-up, maybe they commit a penalty on ice, maybe they are looking the wrong way when a camera shows them, maybe they say the wrong thing to somebody in a hotel lobby, when they get home, they, their families, their wives, their brothers, their sisters, their parents, their grandparents can be put into a freaking woodchipper and murdered because of this woman and her. It makes me actually sick to my stomach seeing that. These people on the television and knowing the kind of jeopardy that they are appearing here under, and yet the treating of this woman as if she is not some sort of cartoon villain, which she is. She is literally the definition of a cartoon villain. And just, you know, oh, it's just another person out there trying to, you know, diplomacy, Mike Palimpic.
Sonny00:04:51She took home the gold in diplomacy at this Olympics. Yeah. That's what I learned. It is the most.
JVL00:04:57It is the most horrifying.
Vic00:04:58There have been a few deleted tweets as a result from the over-exuberance from some certain.
Sonny00:05:04And also, like, the treatment of the cheerleaders, the North Korean cheerleaders. It's like a meme gag.
JVL00:05:11Kitchy.
Sonny00:05:11Oh, look, they're holding. They're like the Trump girls, right? Or something like that. Look, they're holding heads of the Kim Jong-un. It's so cool. And, like, they have such spirit.
Vic00:05:18So they marched together, right, in the opening ceremony. Yes. With South Korea. One Korea. Yep. And then they had the John Lennon Imagine song.
Sonny00:05:27Okay, that's a fitting song for that horror show.
Vic00:05:31And yet, I just want to make sure, during the competition, they're not competing together as one team, right? They are. Really?
JVL00:05:39Half of the South Korean women's ice hockey team was kicked off the team to make room for the North Korean half.
Sonny00:05:48This is just another reason why the Olympics are dumb and stupid. Like, honestly, this whole idea that this is supposed to be some sort of... Coming together of the world moment.
Vic00:05:59If the choice is Pence or North Korea, North Korea.
JVL00:06:01So, here's what's interesting, though. This is a uniquely American problem. My colleague, Ethan Epstein, who knows a lot about Korea and has been covering this stuff for us, he keeps making the point that over in South Korea, actual South Koreans are horrified by this. They think it's a terrible idea. They think it's monstrous that this woman, who is, by the way, not allowed to leave the country. Like, the UN has... Sanctioned by the UN. Sanctioned by the UN.
Sonny00:06:25Sanctioned by the UN. Not even the United States. Sanctioned by the UN. You can't even do that. How do... Like, nobody gets sanctioned by the UN. You could, you could, I don't... Bulldoze over a million villages and the UN would give you an award for, you know, being a...
Vic00:06:40Ultimately, somebody would veto it. You know, China or Russia. Sanctioned by the UN.
JVL00:06:43They made special arrangements that she could come down. And the people of South Korea take this for what it is, which is a threat. And over here in America... Yeah, the discussion of reunification. It is just... Right. Reunification for North Korea, as Ethan points out, it means final victory. Yeah.
Sonny00:07:01That is literally what the word means for them.
JVL00:07:04And it is just another sign of the unseriousness of the people in this country, and it makes me sick. How was your weekend, Vic?
Vic00:07:13Well, Sonny first, I think. My weekend was fine, but Sonny, how was your weekend?
Sonny00:07:18My weekend was a little bit sad, actually. I don't know if you guys saw this, but Johan Johansson died, the composer of Sicario and Arrival. Oh. And Prisoners and some other, he worked most, he was like, he worked most closely with the new, but I really dug his stuff, and he was only 48, and last I saw, I don't know, I didn't see what the actual cause of death was, but it's very young.
JVL00:07:46Did Rose McGowan kill him, too?
Sonny00:07:48Maybe. But it was very sad, and I, you know, if, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing that I wish could have happened is for him to have done the Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack in toto. If you guys remember, he was replaced very late in the game, very, in the last couple months before release, and Hans Zimmer was put in his place. This was supposedly at the urging of Ridley Scott, who thought that Johansson had gotten too far away from the Vangelis score, and Hans Zimmer, like, kind of brought it back to that some, but I, just go, go back. You can watch Sicario and listen to the soundtrack, listen to the score while you're, while you're watching it. It's, it's, it's, well, it's, it's, it's very interesting, it's very propulsive, and it's very insistent and urgent, but it's never, it's never domineering, it never kind of takes over the film. It is, it is kind of a low-level increaser of urgency, as opposed to, like, what you see in some of the Zimmer scores, who I also really, really like, but, like, compare it to, like, Dunkirk, which is literally, has a lot of, like, a lot of, like, a lot of And that is Hans Zimmer, right? Yeah, that's Hans Zimmer. So, I mean, I, you know, I, I, uh, I was, I was a bit bummed by that.
Vic00:09:04I was a little bit bummed out. Maybe Danny Elfman could do the Blade Runner sequel.
Sonny00:09:09Blade Runner movie scored by Danny Elfman.
JVL00:09:12Thank you. That was, that was Simpson-esque. Simpson-esque, okay. Somebody should give us a Blade Runner 2049 trailer. Oh. But with a, with the music in the background mashed in as Danny Elfman.
Vic00:09:29Yeah, Danny Elfman's music, yeah. Um, you were asking, JVL, I had a lovely, um, weekend. I had, Kate and I had dinner on Saturday night with our friends and your friends, the Gardskis. Elf and Christian. Elf and Christian. I have not seen him, maybe in two years. I have not seen him in ages. And, you know, they only live, like, I don't know, a mile and a half away. I mean, it's insane, but they have four kids, you know, but I don't have to tell you. So they're, they have their hands full and different things are going on, but it was really nice and we really tied one on, on Saturday. The only thing is when, you know, we get to sort of get in our cups, Elf likes to, he just wants to talk to me in German. And so then the, the, the, it splits up and Kate and Christian. You know, talk about the kids and school and then Elf and I are just, you know, talking and he wanted about the Reich. No, no, a little bit. We talked a little bit, but no, we, and we talked about, you know, all good gossipy stuff. You know what I mean? So what's going on at work, this and that. And that's great. And it's great for you. It's exhausting for me, but it's great because it helps me, you know, with, with, with my German and he corrects me a couple of times, but I'm pretty sure, you know, but it was, I was going to say it was great because then I could talk about stuff and they're not paying attention. And I'm, you know, talking to him like, yeah. Unsere. Unsere. What do I have here? Yeah. Unsere holiday party war Wahnsinn. Thank you. Our Unsere holiday party war Wahnsinn. And then I start, you know, slurring. And the thing in German is, you know, there's the difference in gender with articles. So it's like dieser, dieses, diese. And I'm pretty sure I told Ulf that I had the hots for an Indian guy and I wanted to tear his clothes off. Sonny has no reaction. He doesn't get the joke at all. Does he not get it? No. He's not commenting at all.
JVL00:11:08So you're raising your kids to speak German in the home, right?
Vic00:11:12They get Spanish at school and I should. It's a shame. But anyway, it gave me a great opportunity to brush up on my German. And speaking of brushing up, JVL, I think you've got something to say.
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Vic00:13:01Thank you, JVL. That was a very dominating performance. Speaking of dominating, over the weekend, Fifty Shades Freak took the top spot at the Best Transition Ever, with $38.8 million, followed by Peter Rabbit, with $25 million, despite the allergy-traumatic scene. Did you guys see this?
Sonny00:13:27Did you see this? No. The studio behind Peter Rabbit had to issue an apology, because apparently there's a subplot in the movie where Peter Rabbit tries to poison the farmer with blackberries. He's allergic. He's allergic to blackberries, and apparently people were outraged that they would use something like food allergies as a source of humor. I don't know if you know this, but people can die from food allergies.
JVL00:13:54It's not a joking matter.
Sonny00:13:55Jonathan.
JVL00:13:56You can't make jokes about food allergies.
Sonny00:13:59The fact that you would possibly joke about a blackberry allergy in a cartoon about rabbits talking and trying to defeat their farmer nemesis.
JVL00:14:09Look, if they want to have the rabbit killing the farmer, they're going to have to kill the farmer. He should use a chainsaw.
Sonny00:14:14Or a shotgun.
JVL00:14:15Or a shotgun. Or an M60. Or a Gatling gun. But not a blackberry.
Sonny00:14:21What should happen is the farmer should be out with his shotgun, and he should lose control of it. Because in a home invasion situation, Jonathan, the most likely course of action would be for a robber to take your gun from you, and that is what you have. He should go out with his gun, and the rabbit should take it and shoot him. That's why you shouldn't have guns. No one should have guns.
Vic00:14:39Thank you, Sonny, for that editorial. Andy Rooney, editorial by Sonny Bunch. In third place was the 1517 to Paris Clint Eastwood's latest project with $12.6 million. JVL, did you see the 1517 to Paris? I did not. Sonny, you saw it. I did see it. You know who else I think saw the 1517? I think Gene saw it. Oh, Gene.
JVL00:15:00He saw that. He saw a movie? I was hoping Gene saw Fifty Shades.
Sonny00:15:04Come on in, Gene. Come sit down.
Vic00:15:07Hello. I meant to see the 1517 to Paris. But I walked into the wrong theater and saw Fifty Shades Freed instead.
JVL00:15:17Yes!
Vic00:15:18Talk about a stroke of luck. Fifty Shades is the titillating tale of master and servant. And boy, does this master bait the servant. Christian Grey whips his new bride into shape, but Anastasia is a real ball buster herself. Pretty soon, she's the one. Straightening him out. There's intrigue and suspense. Who's the new girl? She looks so familiar. Christian is no doubt wondering, I think I've come across that face before.
JVL00:15:56It happened! It happened! Sonny finally spit out his whiskey.
Vic00:16:00Let's see how many more puns I can squeeze out, Sonny. When Anastasia learns she's pregnant, will Christian give her the shaft? There's kidnapping and rambling. Handsome, let's just say the ending is a real eye-opener. I give Fifty Shades Freed five stars. Five out of four stars? Five out of four. Five, and then it went down to four, and then it went down to three. I'm sorry to miss the 1517 to Paris, but in Fifty Shades Freed, Christian Grey also flies to Paris. I'm pretty sure he took the red eye. Well, I guess I milked it for what it's worth. Time for me to pull the plug. Goodbye.
Sonny00:16:47Oh, that was good. I need a minute. That was the best day ever.
Vic00:16:53So do I, for some reason.
Sonny00:16:54We should actually probably just stop the show, frankly. Just 17 minutes, I think that's enough. 17 minutes, that's a good length. That's a good length for an episode.
Vic00:17:02Also, you know what's funny? Gene was also wearing sweatpants at the theater. It was very uncomfortable.
Sonny00:17:07It's funny that you say that. Please, Sonny. I missed, there was no press screening for 1517 in Paris. Yeah. It opened cold. Yeah. And it opened so cold that they didn't even have a Thursday night screening. Like, you know how usually now they have Thursday night 7 p.m., 9 p.m. That's worrisome. That's always a bad sign. So I ended up seeing this movie Sunday night on the last possible showing at the AMC Hoffman in Alexandria, Virginia. There was one other person in the theater with me, and he showed up about a minute before the movie started. I thought I was going to have the whole room to myself, sadly. Wow. But before I got to the theater, I had to leave my house. I hadn't left my house all day. And I was like, God, I guess I should go put on some real pants, because I was wearing sweatpants.
JVL00:17:57Oh, I thought you were going to say cargo pants. Cargo shorts.
Sonny00:18:00I was wearing sweatpants. You were wearing sweatpants? And I was wearing a t-shirt. It was at night. I was wearing a t-shirt and a hoodie. And I got up, and I was like, you know, no, I'm just going to wear sweatpants and this hoodie to the theater. And I did. I did it. It was great. And slippers? Were you wearing slippers? No, no, I was wearing, I had, no, but I was wearing laceless sneakers. They might as well have been slippers. It was literally, if anybody had, if I had seen anyone I know at this theater, I would have been embarrassed. I would have been ashamed of myself.
Vic00:18:27You took a chance, but the odds were.
Sonny00:18:29No, I mean, I was going to, I was going to the 940 show, the 945 showing of a movie that was going to gross maybe $10 million, $12 million. Yeah, not Star Wars or something. Right. But I was, I was not too worried about it. I will say, before I get to my actual review, I will say that the AMC Hoffman masked the
JVL00:18:47screen. It's a shame they did it for such dirt of a movie.
Sonny00:18:51They masked the screen. And I was, and I tweeted about this, and one of, one of Matt Berry, one of, one of my followers chimed in that he had also experienced screen masking at the AMC Hoffman recently. That very day, actually. It's an AMC trend. So, apparently, if you want to watch your movies in the proper aspect ratio, you're going to want to go with, with screen masking, go to the AMC Hoffman in Alexandria, Virginia. Okay. So. Good to know. That's a, that's a good thing.
JVL00:19:21I wonder if they masked it correctly for Fifty Shades for Gene. Did they mask it?
Sonny00:19:25Did you go see IMAX, or did you, would you? Did you go see the IMAX? Did they have it in 3D?
Vic00:19:29I think he saw IMAX in 3D, in 3D. Yeah. You had to dodge things. Sonny, how about a review of the 1517? Let's hear it.
Sonny00:19:39So, the 1517 to Paris is a bizarre. And fascinating film. It is the true story of the Paris train attacks. We all remember the thwarted jihadist attack on a Paris train, which was stopped by three friends, two of whom were in the United States military, one of whom was just kind of along, along the backpacking trip with them. And this movie stars the actual heroes. It stars the guys who were, who were. The ones who stopped the, the attack. That sounds like a great idea. It's an interesting idea. It's, I mean, I, I really, I, I don't know what to make of it because it is, I mean, they're not actors. So they're acting as wooden and kind of stilted. And one of the guys, not the main one. So the, the, the movie follows, you know, all three of them, but it, it follows one more than the other. The guy who like got his thumb almost severed, you know, and got cut in the back of his neck. The other guy, the other, the other guy who was in the military, I, I forget all their names, all their, I, I, I'm terrible with names. But the, the other guy is actually, has some like screen presence in that he, he looks like he could be a background actor in a, in like a, on like a SEAL team and like a, you know, in a, in an action film or something. Like he, he is, he's kind of built and he has like an expressive enough face, but he's not, he's, I mean, he's, again, he's not a professional actor. So like there, there's, there are obvious deficiencies. That this movie has. Once you look beyond that, the movie is an epic piece of right wing trolling.
Vic00:21:22Oh, I'm sure.
Sonny00:21:23I mean, it's like, it's actually fascinating. Like there's, there's a, everything is done totally without irony. Everything is done totally, totally straight faced. Like for instance, there was a scene early in the film where one of the, the, the way the, the, the way the film is structured is it, it kind of flashes back to their childhoods. And we see them growing up and we see them, you know, becoming friends and then they, they move on to becoming soldiers. And, but like in early on in the film when they're kids, you know, one of the mothers is told by a teacher that the kid needs to be on ADD medication. And she says, my God is bigger than your statistics and pulls the kid out of school and sends them to Christian school. And this is all played totally straight. It's like there, there's another scene early on where the kids are one of the, so two of the guys are white. One is African American. He, the, one of the white kids brings the black kid over and they're, they're like playing with guns. They're just playing with like airsoft pistols, you know, like with the oar tips. But then the other, one of the kids pulls out his shotgun that he goes hunting with. And he's like, just look at this. They're just playing around with this gun. Nothing bad happens. Nothing. It's just, it just, they're just, this is because this is actually how the real world is. Right. Like most of the time people play with guns and they don't accidentally blow each other's heads off.
Vic00:22:37Did you feel conditioned to expect something bad was going to happen?
Sonny00:22:39No, totally. Totally. So it is, again, this. This is like, it is, it is, it is. And there's a bunch of stuff like this. Like the military is seen as totally decent. And, you know, like they, they go there. Once the guys go out on missions in Afghanistan, they're, you know, he like leaves a rucksack in a town. And you're expected to like, you, you like, they have to go back and get this rucksack, which is filled with ammunition. And you expect like something terrible to happen, something awful. And so, and he just gets the backpack. And then they drive away.
JVL00:23:07Like it is, it is.
Sonny00:23:08So there's, there's a weird sense of. Non-drama to the film, right? Like it's weirdly inert dramatically, but it is also incredibly tense because you keep expecting these things to happen and then nothing happens. And like, it is, it's, it's really, really fascinating. And it is especially weird if you think about it as a Clint Eastwood movie. Now, Clint Eastwood, who I think we're going to talk about in depth a little more later. But Clint Eastwood is a very workmanlike director. It's kind of, you know, you got your setup, you got your, your two shot, your one shot, your establishing shot. He's workmanlike. Workmanlike. And that often works very well. People really liked American Sniper. I didn't love American Sniper. People really liked it. It's very basic and kind of you go through. But this movie is, I don't want to say it is like a Terrence Malick movie because it's not like a Terrence Malick movie. There aren't, you know, the kind of whispery voiceovers and the floating shots and dust in the air and all that. But, but it has this kind of languid quality to it where once they're adults, then they go on, they start their like kind of European vacation portion of the film, which is the last. 30 minutes or so. And it is just like them going around Europe, doing regular backpacking things, going out with women, going to dances, you know. And the camera, the camera work is very, very weird for a Clint Eastwood movie. Again, it's like, it's a lot of like handheld kind of in close up when they're, when they're in crowd shots and in parties. And then when they, when they go out, they go up to roofs and they look out on vistas and it's like kind of these big, wide, expansive shots. And they're just like talking. Yeah. And think, and it's, it's, it's an extremely odd movie. I am not surprised that audiences didn't like it. Audiences gave it a B minus from cinema score or something like that. That's a very bad score. I think American Sniper is one of the few that has gotten an A plus. Yeah. So it is, it is not a movie for the American Sniper set exactly. I don't know who it's for, really. I mean, it's, it's, it's just, it's such a, it's such a strange movie. I, but it's not a bad movie. It is, it is, it is weird and almost experimental. This is like, this is like Clint Eastwood's arthouse film. You know, I'm like, I'm, I'm totally fascinated by it. I want to see it again, even though I was, I'll be honest, I was kind of bored in the movie. I was kind of bored and like the acting is not good, but it's not good in a, in ways that you expect going into it. And it, it is kind of the apotheosis of these films. You know, all these movies with like real life heroes where it ends and there's a montage of the real people at the end of the film. This whole movie is like that montage at the end where you see the real people. Right, right. Like living their lives.
Vic00:25:42Well, it's the end of Sully.
Sonny00:25:43Yeah, right. Or, or like, um, uh, Only the Brave or Lone Survivor or Deepwater Horizon. I mean, like it's this entire sub genre of film has been kind of distilled to its, it's, it's like the idea at its core, which is like, we want to see the real people do real things. And it's actually like kind of terrible and boring, but it's also fascinating and interesting. I don't know what to make of this movie. It's a total contradiction.
Vic00:26:11Sonny, do you know if the, uh, uh, actors had prior to their, like, did they get much acting coaching prior to this? Uh, you know, I mean like in the short, like, I don't know. I have no idea.
Sonny00:26:22I mean, judging by what we see on screen, not a ton, but, and, and let's be honest, Clint Eastwood is not exactly known for his facility with actors. He is a, let's get it on film. Let's get it in the can.
Vic00:26:36Well, this is one thing, and this is, I remember listening to interviews with Tom Hanks and what, and Tom Hanks describing being director. And he says, it's just very, okay, that's good. Okay, fine. Let's do it. Maybe one, two takes. Okay, we're, no, that's good. We're done. But you're dealing with Tom Hanks. And so I, I don't know. Do you get the sense? I don't, I have no idea how many takes they might have taken to get it right. Because people say, well, they're not actors, but at the same time, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's Hollywood. You could take as many takes as you want to, for them to deliver the line right.
Sonny00:27:03I, who knows, who knows how, how I, the dialogue was all pretty simple too. So, I mean, they weren't, they weren't dealing with like Hamlet's. So it's, it's boring.
JVL00:27:13JVL. It's boring. It's poorly acted. There's not much of a plot. Yeah. It was developed for no specific audience. How did Netflix let this one get away? Good question. I was wondering where you were going with that.
Vic00:27:29Very good. Very good.
Sonny00:27:30Well, I mean, it's, it's, we, there is, there is a certain amount of like, uh, lessening your expectations here, right? Like we, we've talked about Clint Eastwood before. Uh, in, when, in the episode where we were talking about actors who became directors. And one of the things I know JVL, you, you are big on is like not, is not giving them the kind of, not letting them off easy. Right. We, we need to, we need to treat them like, it's not like the dog standing up and, you know, walking on its hind legs. We need to, we need to actually say like, does it work as a piece of direction? And look, if you judge it on this term, uh, it is, it, it is, it is a bad movie. Um, but, but, uh, I kind of liked it. I don't know what to say. I don't know. It's very weird.
Vic00:28:19There's something about it that drew you nevertheless. Yeah, I, yeah. Okay, very interesting. Uh, did you at all feel sleepy while watching this movie?
Sonny00:28:27Well, I was watching it very late and I was wearing sweatpants, so. A little bit. A little bit.
Vic00:28:31It's a short movie, but I, I felt a little bit that way, you know, with, uh, Fifty Shades. It's, uh, you know. You did? I mean, I, I happened to be there. I was sitting in the back row. Oh, you were there afterwards. I was sitting in the back row, much like in The Pelican Brief, when they go in that theater and Stanley Tucci kills the Supreme Court judge and they're in that theater together. No, you'll have to go in. I haven't.
Sonny00:28:51I haven't seen The Pelican Brief in 25 years.
Vic00:28:53It was one of those theaters. Um, but the, uh, remember he kills the judge in there, Stanley Tucci does. He's like the assassin. But, uh, no, I, I, I. Oh, does he have a terrible wig? Yeah. He's in disguise. He's in disguise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's in disguise. Yeah, mustache, whatever it is. But, uh, anyway, no, I was, I was feeling a little sleepy. Did you get sleepy? I got. During the course of the movie? I, you know, after there was a scene where they were playing around. You were really excited to start, but then you were. They were playing around with ice cream on each other, and then at some point I fell asleep. I don't remember why, but it's probably because I'm not having a, a good enough sleep at home on my bed, JVL.
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Vic00:30:58Great work, JVL. My goodness. That's all I'm doing this week. Double duty. Sonny, when you're talking about, you know, real people acting in this movie, obviously that was a big deal. I'm trying to think of any other movies where real people were playing themselves, but at the moment, maybe our listeners would know. Well, Audie Murphy. Oh, okay, but way back then. You've got to go way back.
Sonny00:31:22Well, I don't think that's as far as you have to go, but that's like the most obvious. I'll effort this while you guys talk.
Vic00:31:27That would be very interesting. And you were saying, you know, you were attracted, obviously, drawn to the movie, but it's not your favorite, obviously. It's not your favorite Clint Eastwood movie.
Sonny00:31:37No, it's definitely not my favorite Clint Eastwood movie. I mean, Clint Eastwood.
Vic00:31:41No, no, I was going to say, the guy is, he turns 88 in May, and he's still as busy as ever. Have you always been a Clint Eastwood fan, Sonny, or how far do you go back?
Sonny00:31:56I mean, I like Clint Eastwood. So, you have to make the distinction between Clint Eastwood, the director, and Clint Eastwood, the actor. And again, I think we may have discussed this before. We may be repeating ourselves, so welcome back to my nightmares. But, you know, I would say that Clint Eastwood is at his best when he is acting, and he is at his best as a director when he is directing a movie in which he is acting. So, Unforgiven, obviously, is up there. But also, you know, Gran Torino, which I know is like a movie that, Gran Torino is a weird movie to kind of go back and watch now. It's very problematic.
Vic00:32:35Oh, well, yeah, and also, Gran Torino is problematic. Is that what you're saying? And also bad acting. Oh, yeah. And also bad acting.
JVL00:32:46That movie is only six years old.
Sonny00:32:47Yeah. No, it's 10 years old. That came out in 2008. Okay.
JVL00:32:5010 years old. It's only 10 years old. Things can become problematic that fast now.
Vic00:32:54Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, even though they're trying to, you know, there's a whole point to his language and his coming to acceptance, but at the same time, it still wouldn't be tolerated. People would just be totally triggered, I think. Although, the minority in that group are the Hmong, right? The Hmong. The Hmong. The Hmong. Yeah, the Hmong. The Hmong. And there were some acting issues with that as well. Yeah, no, I mean. I mean, I like that, but it's strictly about the acting.
Sonny00:33:18I like the movie. But I, my favorite, I think my favorite Clint Eastwood movie, the movie that kind of gets all of this together in the same place, is High Plains Drifter. Wow. Which is his, it's a, it was, it came out in the mid-1970s, I want to say 76 or something like that. And it is kind of, it is kind of of a piece with the Man With No Name trilogy. He plays a, he plays a gunfighter who wanders around the world. He wanders into a town that has been, that lives in fear of these, these criminals who are coming, coming back to destroy it. But it is also kind of a rejection of that. It is like a, he is a, he's not, I don't know, I, I, again, I'm not, I'm not entirely sure how to describe this movie, except to say that it is totally fascinating. I can't believe it came out when it did in the mid-1970s. And it is, it is, I, I find it superior in almost every way to other movies. It is unforgiven, but, but I, I realize that this is a, a minor, minority opinion.
Vic00:34:16Well, I mean, he did, I remember Outlaw Josie Wales. Right. Too, I mean, that was all around.
Sonny00:34:20Another idea of, like, this kind of, you know. So, Outlaw Josie Wales was actually about a Confederate soldier, right, who was, yeah. I mean, I, could you imagine making that, that movie? On many levels, no. On many levels, no. Well, there was the AMC show, right, that was, that was, that came, that, oh God, what was the name of that terrible show? I watched the first season. Now I can't remember. But there was an AMC show that was about, like, a, a Confederate soldier who goes to work on the railroad and, you know.
Vic00:34:44That's, that's right, short-lived. With Colm Meaney. Colm Meaney was the, like. Oh, right, yeah, yeah.
Sonny00:34:47He was basically playing the Ian McShane from Deadwood. Deadwood. This is a good segment, guys. I'm glad we're. Anyway.
Vic00:34:53My earliest memory of Clint Eastwood was thanks to HBO, which we had as a kid, and it was for Every Which Way But Loose. So that's the first time I remember him coming into my. Was that the monkey movie? Conscious. Yeah, with orangutan. The orangutan. Both of us. That's a very big distinction. Come on. Orangutan. Ruth Gordon, the great late actress Ruth Gordon. And I also remember going to see a movie, and the trailer prior to the movie was for Sudden Impact. And that was a big deal because of the iconic line. And they sold that line even in the trailer. Go ahead. Make my day. It became such a thing. Even before the movie came out, which is interesting. I just remembered that because Dirty Harry goes back. But Clint Eastwood was born in 1930, and I think the first big movie, western he does, is Fistful of Dollars in 64. So Dirty Harry. Comes out when he's like 31. 41, rather. No, 41. 41, Dirty Harry, 1971. And I only recently saw Dirty Harry, like a couple of years ago. And, yeah, you want to talk about gritty, you know, crime in the city, and, you know, a guy who takes a hostage, a school bus, and kids. I mean, there's so many things that have just...
JVL00:36:05They had to remake that. That's a movie that is ripe for remake.
Vic00:36:09Well, I mean, we've got a new Death Wish. Death Wish, we do. I keep seeing the ads for that. I saw the trailer. I saw the trailer. Let's make this happen. For Death Wish. And it'll be the... Yes. Well, anyway.
Sonny00:36:19Anyway, I'm a big fan of Clint Eastwood as a actorly presence. I think he is... I think you're right about that. The Clint squint, the Clint glare is like the iconic definition of, I don't know, American masculinity over the last 50 or 60 years. I think that is like what we think of when we think of, you know, a man. He is. And I... I've always found his directing, again, with some exceptions, like High Plains Drifter or Unforgiven, or A Perfect World, which, again, I think we talked about before. With Kevin Costner. Right. It's very workmanlike. It's very kind of like go from point A to point B to point C. We're just moving things along. And this is, again, one of the reasons why I find the 1517 to pair so interesting is because it is not like that at all. It is very... The second half in particular is very kind of languid and just... It lets you luxuriate in the idea of the normalcy of these guys just kind of chilling in Europe, like guys do.
JVL00:37:21JVL. Is this the directorial equivalent of his Republican National Convention empty chair thing? Wow. Is he an old man who just hasn't got it anymore, or is there some high art to this? Or it's off-putting, but confusing, but interesting.
Sonny00:37:39Well, my friend Victor Morton, actually. He actually wrote a 1,500-word review that kind of compared this movie to that speech. Oh. That sounds like a great piece. Yeah, it was pretty good. But the idea here is that on the one hand, he's trying to trigger the libs. On the other hand, he is kind of crazy, and it's hard to say exactly what's going on. But on the third hand, there's a conceptual brilliance to the whole thing that is possibly only really clicking entirely in his own head, and we're just getting glimpsed of.
Vic00:38:12JVL, do you have Clint Eastwood thoughts?
JVL00:38:15Nothing that I haven't said before. There are a handful of Clint Eastwood movies where he gets all of the story, and they're great. And my complaint about him as a director is that he doesn't always get all of it. And there are a bunch of movies in his filmography where you go and look at them, and they are good but not great, and you can see where they could have gotten from good to great, and he just wasn't able to. He didn't have time to get there.
Vic00:38:42Did you, or were either of you guys fans of the Flags of Our Fathers, Letters of Iwo Jima set? No. I didn't love it. I didn't love it. You and I saw half of those together.
JVL00:38:54Yeah, we did. We saw... Which one did we see together? I think we saw Letters to Iwo Jima together.
Vic00:38:59You know what? I'm pretty... No, you know what? I saw Flags of Our Fathers with my wife, with Kate. Right, so you and I saw Letters to Iwo Jima. We must have seen Letters to Iwo Jima together, right? Yeah. And I remember there was...
JVL00:39:14I was sore the next morning. That's why I remember. Wow. From the seats. The seats. Yeah. The seats. No, it was a packed theater.
Vic00:39:21I was like all the way to the side. Anyway, I was more intrigued about Letters to Iwo Jima than I thought. I had lesser expectations and more about, oh, this is a whole sort of equivalency thing. Here we go again. But no, I thought it was better. In terms of him as an actor, you're right, Sonny, obviously the best is when he's doing both, but I tend to think of him, even as an actor, I really, really enjoy him, and my favorite movie of all time with Clint Eastwood is In the Line of Fire. I just think... 100% agree. Directed by Wolfgang Peterson. That's your favorite Clint Eastwood movie is In the Line of Fire? Really? With him as an actor. Directed by Wolfgang Peterson and a stellar cast, right? So you've got John Malkovich as the villain, Rene Russo... Fred Thompson. The late Fred Thompson, Dylan McDermott, who I think was on his way at that time, Gary Cole. Yep. The great Gary Cole, the late Fred Thompson, you mentioned, the recently deceased John Mahoney.
JVL00:40:23That's right, I forgot when he was in that.
Vic00:40:24He was his older buddy, and even, I'll give you two other ones here, Tobin Bell from Saw, he's in the beginning of that movie as the counterfeiter, and of course, a tiny, just a little cameo from John Heard, and he is in the wheelchair. I think he's... He is a guy, he's not in the wheelchair, but he's one of the nerds. He's one of the nerds who designs... Yes. It was models, it was models. Yes, the models that Malkovich goes to. He's just John Heard, or John Hurt, Heard, as in big, John Heard, and yeah, he was there, and he was great, too, and it's funny. I love the crap out of that movie. The great line in, because he says, you know, he knows things about people, in the end, he's sitting there with Lily, and they're looking at the, he goes, I bet you the one pigeon flies before the other one does, and she says, how do you know that? He goes, I know things about pigeons, Lily. You know, it's just great. It's really kind of sweet. My...
JVL00:41:09And Malkovich, of course, Malkovich is... My favorite half-joke in that movie is when Malkovich gets his way into the big fundraising dinner, and is sitting, making conversation at the table, and he trots out what, even at the time, was an enormous cliche, you know, the thing about the Chinese is, they're playing chess when we're playing checkers, and all the other idiot political donors are just like, oh, wow, that's profound, that was so funny. Kate says...
Vic00:41:36And intentionally so. Yes, and intentionally so, because he's just throwing out something that he probably read all the time, or whatever, and Kate always says that that scene is particularly spot-on. If you wanted to get close to the president, you'd be a fundraiser, and there's how the bundlers work, you know, they bring you in, and you get an invite to a special dinner if you donate X amount, and then you meet there, and then they do this thing, and she just said it was just so spot-on about how that works, and anyway, I thought that was great. JVL, you also have a Sondra Locke connection, don't you? You once did, you communicated with Clinton. Eastwood's wife, was it wife or girlfriend? Yeah, girlfriend or ex.
JVL00:42:14I reviewed a Clint Eastwood biography for the Wall Street Journal, and in the course of it, I think I got an email after the fact from her. Is that what happened? Yes. I think this is what I did.
Vic00:42:25But it was good, not bad. It wasn't like saying, how dare you? No, it was nice. She thought I did justice. She's the, like, Eastwood, the- Palimony suit, I believe it was. Oh, okay, well, there you go, yeah. Was it a Palimony suit, if I'm remembering correctly? I may be wrong. Their son is the actor? Is it Scott Eastwood, or is it, I get mixed up which one it is. And is that the mother, then? That would be the mother. I believe so. Oh, okay. But I always found- I could be wrong. Don't, don't- What's so crazy is, so he does Unforgiven in 92 and The Line of Fire in 93, so they give him the Irving Thalberg Lifetime Oscar achievement. Like, you're done with your life in 95. Yeah. In 95. And then, like, 23 years later.
Sonny00:43:05Yeah, I mean, he's directed, what, like, 10 movies? I can't believe I remember this.
JVL00:43:09JBL. In 1989, Lock 5. JBL filed a palimony suit against Eastwood. There you go. Wow. There you go. That's a deep pull for me. Sorry. I don't mean to ground you guys to the halt with me. No, no, no, no. I believe I messed with myself. You're already coming to a halt as it is. Yeah. We're running out of time.
Vic00:43:24You brought this up before, but, you know, you mentioned this. It's not bad to repeat certain things, because not everybody has listened to all 64 episodes of The Main. Not everybody's going to listen to next week. Yeah, that's right. So, can we talk just briefly, and we've talked about this before, about your brief- We've talked about Benicio Del Toro. What about your run-in with Clint Eastwood at the Kennedy Center?
Sonny00:43:44We talked about this just like two weeks ago, didn't we? Yeah. No, we talked about it at lunch recently. I mean, like, well, we talk about a lot of things at lunch. No, it was just, I was at an event. It was like a, it was a press-invited event, but not like a, not really a press event. It was kind of a big party that the press leeched onto. And I was trying to get a quote from him for the piece that we were working on, and, you know, I talked to him while he was talking to someone else, and when he stopped talking to that person, I was like, Mr. Eastwood, I was just wondering if I could. And he, like, looked at me and went, eh. And, like, did the Clint, did the Clint squint. And I, like, I literally just, like, shrunk. I just, like, shrunk up. He's tall. He's very tall. He's, like, 6'2 or 6'3 at least. Maybe even taller than that. But, but he was, but it was, like, but it was, it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't his height. He wasn't just, like, glowering over me. It was, like, his.
JVL00:44:39Just his virility?
Sonny00:44:39His, his. His, his. His manliness? His, his refusal to tolerate nonsense from people.
JVL00:44:46But you refused to tolerate nonsense, too. I would have thought that you'd be just giving it right back to him. I would have given it right back. Yeah, I'll give you that look. No, I wasn't, I wasn't drunk enough.
Vic00:44:52The, the, the look you gave me when I said, oh, we only have one bottle of beer. That look. Yeah, basically.
Sonny00:44:58I mean, I can bully you. That's, you know, that's, that's neither here nor there.
Vic00:45:01Is it, is it also because he's old, but he must be just, he must just be in great shape because he could still have that, he still has that, he's not frail.
Sonny00:45:08He's not, he didn't come across as too frail. Well, this was also 10 years ago. I mean, I don't know. He was 78. Oh, yeah, but it was, I mean, he's, he's, he's a tall, he's lanky. I would say he's lanky. He's wiry. Yeah. Yeah. He's wiry.
Vic00:45:19Yeah, and the camera puts 15 pounds. If you could go back, do you ever think, do you ever go back and think, okay, how could I have handled this different or said something different to get him to talk to me? Do you ever think about what you would have done differently or no?
Sonny00:45:33Uh, I mean, I, I do kind of wish I had just like pushed through and been like, hey, I have, I need to get a quote from you. Or this piece I'm working on. But like, you know what I would, but I also don't really care.
JVL00:45:44Cash money to see Matt Labash making an approach on Clint.
Vic00:45:48That would be, that would be awesome. That would either be amazing or disastrous.
Sonny00:45:52I think, uh, I would be fun to watch Clint take a swing at Matt Labash. He, he, he, he knocked him out of college. I put my money on Matt. Well, Matt's got, Matt's got 30 years. Also, he knows how to box and he's, he's athletic.
Vic00:46:07I, I take Labash. Clint's a fighter too, though. Um, okay, do we have any more? No. We, we are done.
JVL00:46:13Let's kill this episode.
Vic00:46:14All right. So, more ways than one. Spirit of the Week is actually just tin cup, Colorado bourbon, courtesy of my brother-in-law, Bill Dwyer. And do we have corrections and additions, anything? I think we were clean. There was a correction. Yeah, there was.
JVL00:46:28Somebody texted me about Last of the Mohicans, French and Indian War, not Revolutionary War. How do we mention that?
Vic00:46:34How do we, I can't.
JVL00:46:34And there was some other correction associated with that, but I don't, I care about the corrections as much as I care about the show notes. Maybe we ought to kill the corrections a bit.
Sonny00:46:41Only if there is corrections. Maybe we ought to just kill the whole show.
Vic00:46:44Are we, are we, are we getting to that point? Well, you have your hands full as it is, Sonny. We always feel like this.
Sonny00:46:49Well, you're off doing The Remnant all the time now, you know.
Vic00:46:53And welcome, welcome Remnant listeners who enjoy Gene and who have now joined The Substandard. Welcome, friends. I'm so glad you're here. Let's see if those download numbers tick us. We'll look at those analytics in a second.
JVL00:47:04We always feel like this in February. It's the hardest. Well, because this is the worst part. There's nothing happening. Well, next week, though. Next week, though, it's going to be so exciting because we've got... I've already started writing my bits.
Sonny00:47:14We've got Black Panther. Black Panther's coming, folks. That's weird.
JVL00:47:17I mentioned this on Twitter. I'm actually scared. I was actually, I have a friend who's already seen it, and he came over to my house over the weekend, and I touched the hem of his garment, and I had been sick, coughing. I'm totally healed now, better. I don't wear contact lenses anymore. Wow. My sight, 2020, this morning at the gym, I ran a five-minute mile and then benched 250. Do you know why? Because I touched the clothing of someone. The clothing of somebody who saw Black Panther.
Sonny00:47:41Awesome. This is going to be really problematic. Getting excited for 60 minutes of this next week, guys. Yeah, okay.
Vic00:47:47That's all the time we are giving to this episode. We've got nothing else to discuss. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments, tweet us at Victorino Matus at Sonny Bunch.
Sonny00:47:56At JV Last.
Vic00:47:57Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes or Google Play. Just type in Substandard on our podcast. We're there. Leave her a view. Tell your friends. Until next time. I have one and then you get one. Why don't we end on yours? Okay. Mine was this. My experience having also gone to see Fifty Shades was really interesting. There were probably about five or six people in the audience total at like a 10 a.m. showing. How many women versus men? There was like maybe one or two couples and then just like an old dude and another old dude. And then he's like, yeah, are you here alone? I said, yeah. What about you? No, I'm just kidding. That didn't happen. That didn't happen until later.
JVL00:48:4075% of the ticket buyers for this were women. So you found your way into an old dude. Oh, my gosh. I don't know. Well, I saw-
Sonny00:48:46Oh, did you go to the DuPont Five? Remember that theater? Oh, I remember that theater. I saw Lost in Translation. What was it called? It was like the- Cineplex Odeon. Yes, Cineplex Odeon. That's right.
Vic00:48:58That's Odeon. And I saw Lost in Translation there. I saw Buena Vista Social Club there. At least part of it. I only saw- I saw Clerks 2 there. There you go. But the interesting thing is this. I couldn't help notice that throughout the movie, like, an AMC employee with a flashlight would just walk through the theater. Are you for real? Uh-huh. Yeah, totally. Like, twice. And, like, not, like, shine it at my face, but, like, you know, but, like, walking by with a light. Hand check. Everybody put your hand in the air. It was like a hand check. It was so uncomfortable, but, you know.
Sonny00:49:32Well, was it like the guy who has, like, the little red flashlight who goes and checks the, like, the little piece of paper on the- What is that even? What are you doing?
Vic00:49:39I don't know, and I saw the red light, and then, and then also, and then I just see it glowing, and then walking, and then walking, but it kept walking by me.
Sonny00:49:45It kept just kind of looking, looking at you.
Vic00:49:47But during, during certain parts- You were wearing your trench coat?
JVL00:49:49Is that the problem?
Vic00:49:50It was raining. That's why I had the trench coat on. Well, it rained all weekend. It rained all weekend. All weekend in Washington. But that was kind of a little weird. It was a little weird. Unfortunately. Yes, go, go. He's clapping himself on the neck. Thank you. JVL, go. Dakota Johnson.
JVL00:50:05Yes. Big fan. I used to be a big fan. And then I found out, because I'm an idiot and I'm always far behind these things, that she is actually Don Johnson's daughter. Yes, of course. And Melanie Griffith. And after hearing that, every time I look at her, I see Crockett's face looking back at me.
Vic00:50:26Again, I find her very attractive. Continue.
JVL00:50:29I know, but I can't find her attractive at all now, because when I look at her, and I don't even know what it is. I don't know that they look all that much alike. They do. A little bit. Eyes. Eyes. There is something about-
Vic00:50:38Don Johnson is very, Don Johnson is like, kind eyes. He has kind eyes, and so does she. Yes, kind eyes. I'm surprised you've ever-
JVL00:50:46Is she a gentle lover? No, no. I'm surprised.
Vic00:50:48It's the eyes that kind of go down. Have you actually seen her eyes, Vic? She's a budding talent. You know, I have no problem with that. It reminds me of your line about Leighton Hewitt. Remember this? Who is the tennis player dating Leighton Hewitt's sister? And you used to say, oh my goodness, that Leighton Hewitt's sister looks just like Leighton Hewitt. He is the identical, practically an identical twin of Leighton Hewitt, and you said to me and David Skinner, gosh, that would be really awkward if you were dating her, and Skinner said, yes, unless the brother was Jude Law. I'm sure it's fine.
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