#80. The Substandard on Justice League and Thanksgiving Bracketology!

2017-11-21 · 01:10:47

Listen to this episode ↗on Substack, where the show lives now

Full episode (70:47). All three hosts present.

Dudes Chatting — screeners, Rotten Tomatoes, woodshop finale, and whiskey judging: Sonny watched First, They Killed My Father (Angelina Jolie directing — surprisingly good) and The Meyerowitz Stories (Adam Sandler unexpectedly strong). Sonny is revealed to be a Rotten Tomatoes certified critic via his WAFCA membership. Woodshop finale: Vic receives the "most improved" award from instructor Arthur and solves his roof-joint problem with a hook-and-eye fitting. Vic also judged the World Whiskies Awards at Jack Rose Saloon; wheat whiskey was the biggest surprise of the evening.

Reviews:

Justice League — Sonny: the film is incoherent, the $300M budget is not visible on screen, Cyborg is the worst character, and Superman is fatally overpowered — though the one standout moment is the Flash tracking Superman's eyes. JVL: the film repeatedly commits the sin of telling rather than showing, Superman's resurrection has no emotional payoff (contrasted unfavorably with Buffy Season 6's handling of a similar arc), the CGI is terrible, and Danny Elfman's score is derivative hack work. Both agree DC needs a complete reboot.

Dudes Chatting — Thanksgiving Bracketology: A full tournament bracket of Thanksgiving sides. Stuffing wins the championship over mashed potatoes. JVL's personal bracket winner would be cranberry sauce. A dessert-drink bracket runs alongside: bourbon defeats Port for the title.

Box Office: Justice League opened at #1 with $94–96M — a major disappointment given its $300M budget. Wonder debuted at #2 with $27M. Thor: Ragnarok fell to #3 with $21M.

Spirit of the Week: a 10-cup American whiskey from Colorado. Corrections: Rat Race is a remake of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World, not The Cannonball Run; Sean Connery's favorite of his own roles was The Wind and the Lion; the wide-mouthed champagne glasses are called coupes.

Full transcript

Guest00:00:00-We have to be ready. You, me, the others. There's an attack coming from far away. -Not coming, Bruce. It's already here. The others, where are they?

Vic00:00:30Hello, and welcome back to another edition of The Substandard sponsored by HelloFresh. HelloFresh is the meal kit delivery service that makes cooking fun, easy, and convenient. For $30 off your first week of deliveries, visit HelloFresh.com and enter "substandard30" when you subscribe. I'm Victor Matus along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last. I'd like to remind you that The Substandard is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. Just look at our podcast and search for "substandard30." You'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a review. Many of you have. Yes, you're really coming through for us. For one reason or another. Is that right, Sonny?

Sonny00:01:11Apparently, Jonah Goldberg on his little podcast attacked us the other day. I wouldn't know because I don't listen to any other podcasts. But in response, the reviews have come flooding in, and we're very happy to have all of you listeners and reviewers. Please.

Vic00:01:28We need that sort of positive reinforcement. Thank you.

Sonny00:01:31Yeah, get him in quick because, you know, never know when this is all coming to an end. Oh, I know. I know when it's all coming to an end. January 1, 2018. Who can say?

Vic00:01:41He's like Nicolas Cage in Knowing, which I've been able to watch in pieces on YouTube. And it looks awful.

Sonny00:01:49I actually like that movie a lot. It's by the guy who made Dark City, Alex Proyas. And it's actually like a kind of interesting biblical thriller. Really? It's literally about the Bible. Which is weird.

Vic00:02:02But it's so depressing. Well, yeah, as they say, the earth will be destroyed by fire, but it seems so depressing. Well, I don't know what to tell you.

Sonny00:02:08The whole earth gets lit up. Yeah, well, we probably have it coming. So, like, I can't be too upset about it.

Vic00:02:14That's a good point. We do have it coming. JVL, how are you or do you want me to go to Sonny first? You look like you're in the middle of efforting something.

JVL00:02:21No, I don't want to talk about how I am. I feel like this takes up too much of the show. We should like do two people talking about how they are, not three. I think three is too much time. And I'm much more interested in hearing about shop class and Sonny.

Vic00:02:32Wow. I thought we were trying to make this an extra long Thanksgiving episode.

JVL00:02:36No, we'll be able to. We've got a lot of, like, actual content. And I have no content for Justice League. Ever since you texted us the picture of the doctor, the doctor is in. Yeah, he is. At the bandsaw?

Vic00:02:48At the bandsaw. And, well, he was, he had his own projects going on. So he sort of, I'll talk about this in a second, but he sort of glommed on to the class. And then, of course, became the big star of the class, and then got to do whatever he wanted to do. So everyone's doing bird feeder, and he's like, "Okay, we're done with that. Immediately fixed." And then, "I need to work on other things." And so he brought his own-- Let's build a hooper. He brought his own wood with him that he had bought. And a king-size bed. And doing stuff.

JVL00:03:13And now a French farmhouse dining room table.

Vic00:03:15He was doing a lot of stuff. Is that a Nolan Wilson reference? Yes, it is. Very good. But we can get to Woodshop in a second. Sonny, how are you now that you just popped-- I'm just eating Skittles now. You're just eating Skittles. How is that-- Where did you get the Skittles from?

Sonny00:03:30Number one, I love Skittles. You don't throw that out there. I want to thank JVL for doing an impromptu candy draft before this episode started. That was very exciting. My weekend was fine. I don't know. I mean, it was-- I didn't really-- It's weird. I mean, I'm in the middle of movie screener season. So, like, as a critic, I get, like, a hundred movies at the end of the year. And I have to kind of pick and choose what I want to watch. So this weekend I watched-- First, They Killed My Father, the story of the Cambodian genocide, directed by Angelina Jolie, who directed it very well for an actress. Or actor. Long-time listeners of the show will remember this argument.

JVL00:04:12Is she growing as a director?

Sonny00:04:14I think she actually--

JVL00:04:15I mean, it's a serious question. I'm not trying to be a smartass.

Sonny00:04:17No. As I said on Twitter, I actually cannot believe that the same person directed both Unbroken, which is, like, totally pedestrian, and kind of dull, actually, and this movie, which is actually, like, gripping and kind of impressionistic and just a very kind of enthralling look at life in the midst of upheaval and, you know, death and destruction.

Vic00:04:44Does this mean that there are no big names in the movie, per se?

Sonny00:04:47No, it's all--I think it's all Cambodian actors.

Vic00:04:52So she tried to be faithful to sort of, you know, a story that takes place in Cambodia with Cambodians.

Sonny00:04:57Yeah, during--so the movie follows the rise of the Khmer Rouge. Ah. That's depressing. And it's--I mean, it is depressing. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause you know what sucked was living under the Khmer Rouge. Yeah, I was gonna say. And even with eyeglasses, you can take it from there. What else did you watch? I also watched The Meyerowitz Stories, the new Noah Baumbach movie. Was that on Netflix? Yeah, it was on Netflix. These are both Netflix movies. Did you like it? It's okay. I'm not really a big Baumbach fan. To be honest. But I--Adam Sandler's very good in it. He's doing kind of a toned-down version of his, like, crazy, normal guy shtick, which is-- His Punch Drunk Love? No, but, like, Punch Drunk Love is a very different, stylized version of that, where he's playing, like, kind of an autistic, you know--and this guy is just kind of a schlub.

JVL00:05:43It's funny, I'd never thought of that, as that character as being Spectrum-y, but that's exactly right. No, he's--yeah, that's exactly what I-- Yeah, it's perfect. Yeah. It's great. It's a good call.

?00:05:52Thank you.

JVL00:05:52Thank you. This is why you're one of America's best film critics. And, in fact, on Rotten Tomatoes. Also, Rotten Tomatoes certified. What? What did that happen? Rotten Tomatoes certified. Is that recently? This is a real question. What did you have to do to get certified by Rotten Tomatoes?

Sonny00:06:04Was there an inspection? So, when I was at-- An interview? This was actually--so, this is my--this is, like, a glimpse into my awful vanity. When I was-- Oh, do tell. When I was at-- Oh, this is gonna be good. When I was at The Washington Times, I wanted to be on Rotten Tomatoes, because I wanted, like, The Washington Times to be a, like, certified-- I wanted, like, mainstream credibility for this, you know, this minor metropolitan newspaper that I worked for. And I was, like, looking at the thing, and there's, like, a process that you can go through where you can, like, submit your credentials and blah, blah, blah. And it probably would have been fine anyway, because they were accepting just about anybody who worked at, like, a mainstream outlet. But the shortcut was to join an accredited film critics association. And the Washington Area Film Critics Association is, I mean, like, they just take all the Washington film critics. So, first I became a member of WAFCA. Once I had the WAFCA card in hand, I went to Rotten Tomatoes, and I said, "See, I have credibility." And they let me right in. So, this is a serious question.

JVL00:07:08I used to, back when I was doing movie reviews, go to all these press screenings, and I would always see the WAFCA guys there. And they essentially looked like a group of... 12 clones of the comic book guy from The Simpsons. And they looked like... And this is a superficial... I'm sure they're all lovely human beings. And fun to be around. And great husbands, wives, sons, and daughters. But I would sit there in my corner at, like, the MPAA theater watching them all talk to each other. And I would want to bash them all in the head with a baseball bat. It, uh... They're so smug and insufferable.

Vic00:07:52But only in their world. Outside of their world, they're completely powerless. Right. But when you're in their world, oh, you're at their mercy.

JVL00:07:57And I just sat there staring at them and thinking, "Who would want to be part..." I am still a member of the Washington Area Film Critics Association. But are they actually nice people? Yeah, they're... Maybe we should talk about this offline.

Sonny00:08:11Yeah, everyone is extremely nice and, uh... Do you banter with them at screenings?

JVL00:08:16Or do you sit by yourself and...

Sonny00:08:17I have my own group of friends that I sit with at these things usually. Some of whom are in Woffka, some of whom are not. But, I mean, they're, you know, good folks.

Vic00:08:26Who do you... Do you hang out with Arch Campbell?

Sonny00:08:28Arch Campbell is often at the screenings. He's, uh... We see each other. I mean, I don't think he would... I'm sure Arch Campbell does not know my name. But he would probably recognize me if I saw him at a urinal in a theater. So...

JVL00:08:43Recognize your face?

?00:08:45No comment.

JVL00:08:46No comment. Oh. And now Sonny's gonna... Who's the...

Vic00:08:50Sonny's gonna... Who's the Idaho senator? Uh, Crepe...

Sonny00:08:53No, I don't... I wanna get... Might get the wrong name.

JVL00:08:56Uh, no, it wasn't Crepe.

Sonny00:08:57It was, uh... No, you know who I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was he Idaho? You know, it was, uh...

Vic00:09:02It's Montana. It's a wide stance. It's a wide stance. I got a wide stance. What is that guy's name? Oh, they're gonna tell us. That'll be for next episode. Oh, for show notes. Corrections. Yes, exactly. He's gonna wash his hands. Next! Does he say that? And then blinks his eyes. A lot. Sonny.

Sonny00:09:18He still wears the hat, doesn't he? I'm not dignifying that with a response.

Vic00:09:21Okay. No. All lovely people, I'm sure. But you know what? You know all the lovely people. I did notice... I did notice, Sonny, that you have... You've been getting a lot of screeners at the office, and I can't wait to go through

Sonny00:09:31them. Yeah. That's not happening. This year. Do they send in Blu-ray or DVD? DVD.

Vic00:09:37Mm. They expect people to watch...

Sonny00:09:39Savages. ...low-definition?

?00:09:41Well, this is...

Sonny00:09:41Yeah. This is why I actually... So, it's very funny. Netflix actually sends DVDs that are in a lower definition than what I can stream from their streaming service. Oh. And I just... I like... So, I just stream them. But it's weird. Mm-hmm.

JVL00:09:57It's very annoying. It's weird. Is this to cut down on piracy? Do they send you intentionally low-definition versions so that you don't...

Sonny00:10:01I think they're... That might be part of it. But I think the... I mean...

JVL00:10:05Because film critics are utterly amoral when it comes to leaking and selling those things.

Sonny00:10:09I don't think that that's true. That's true. Exactly. I think most of them do it. Or at least the ones that...

JVL00:10:14I'm sorry. I don't mean to finger film critics, but the people who are sent to these things by the studios are... Well, before Harvey Weinstein...

Sonny00:10:19... are promiscuous. Remember, before Harvey Weinstein, the only person who was kicked out of the MPAA was somebody who had sold screeners. Yes. It was the one person who had ever been expelled from the MPAA before Harvey Weinstein was a screener seller.

Vic00:10:35Yeah.

JVL00:10:36Well, good. Yeah. You guys want to attack any more of my friends while we're...

Sonny00:10:39While we're doing this?

JVL00:10:41You don't have actual friends.

Sonny00:10:43Any more of the people I see on a regular basis? Yeah. Look, they're not listening to this podcast. They're all listening to The Remnant. Vic, tell me... Hey! ... all about...

Vic00:10:51Hello, JVL. Tell me all about Woodshop.

Sonny00:10:53Well, I thought we already talked about friggin' Woodshop. Are we...

Vic00:10:57People love Woodshop. Are you done? No. This is the last class. This was the last class. Do you have a picture? You didn't bring the birdhouse? I did. No. It's outside, and the squirrels love it. We did the last thing we had...

?00:11:08There's a mirrored ceiling

Vic00:11:09with the squirreled... The bird feet are mirrored ceiling, yes. So they wanted to put dowels to connect, you know, for the roof to fit the roof, but of course, Dr. Bob Dwyer said that he thinks over time, it's gonna either get stuck or it's gonna get loose. Dowel talk. Dowel talk, because, you know, the weather and heat and expansion and cold and everything, and then it'll just, you know, how that happens. And so his thought was a hook and eye, and so he wanted to drill up and do a hook and eye job on it, and so he brought those in. And I, and Michael and I actually did that for him. He just showed me, okay, mark it here, drill in there, and then do it. And so I just did what he told me to do, and it amazingly fit. Fantastic. Yeah, and so that was the end of that, and Arthur, the instructor, actually, you know, he had said that I had made great progress over the course, from great progress.

JVL00:12:02Did you get the improvement ribbon? Yeah, well, you know, he said...

Vic00:12:05Most improved. Most improved from starting off at the level of baby. And then finishing at about a 10-year-old level. So that was really exciting, but he said, he goes, he jokingly said, it was all pass/fail, but everybody passed. And he said he'd like to have me again, and in January, there's actually a woodworking fundamentals course, and I think the final product is just gonna be a cutting board,

JVL00:12:25but you're gonna be working with, but a really, a really good, a really good cutting board.

Vic00:12:31A napkin holder. Very, yeah, that's the final product after 10 weeks, but we're gonna be working with large pieces of wood this time. And, and I think they're gonna be doing some hand tools. Wait, you're gonna be making a butcher block? Yeah, apparently. That's what they said. But we'll see what it is. I don't know. I'd like to do it in January. That's interesting. It is interesting. It is interesting. So, there was that.

JVL00:12:53But more important. A lot of vices. Right, a lot of compression. Probably. Again, it's gonna be a lot more hand tools, so that's gonna be interesting.

Vic00:12:58The glues, finishing. Are they gonna do finishing, too?

JVL00:13:00'Cause the finishing's very important.

Vic00:13:01Yeah, definitely.

JVL00:13:02Especially if you're gonna put food on it and things. You're gonna have to do all that stuff.

Vic00:13:04Hey, Sonny, how are you over there? Oh, what was Facebook Live for that? I wish you had saved that for Facebook Live. Save it for the Facebook. Here's something that Sonny's gonna love even better than that, which is, I also wanted to mention that last Wednesday, one of the highlights of my life, I was a judge for the World Whiskies Awards. Sonny is shaking his head. Oh, it's more free advertising.

JVL00:13:22Oh, yeah. I'm so glad you're monetizing the show, Beck. I'm not.

Vic00:13:26Tell me all about it. Actually, all the whiskies were unnamed. Was it at the Wild Duck? It was... No. The Blue Duck Tavern. A wonderful, one-Michelin-starred restaurant at the Park Hyatt on M Street.

?00:13:34No.

Vic00:13:35This was at the Jack Rose Saloon. And we judged from 10:30 in the morning 'til 3:30 in the afternoon. We went through... I went through about 30 glasses.

JVL00:13:45How blitzed were you by the end?

Vic00:13:47Not at all. I was extremely bloated, though. I drank so much water.

JVL00:13:50Did you have to spit?

Vic00:13:51You could, but I kept on forgetting to. And so, what I did is I took small sips. Sorry. That's what she said.

Sonny00:13:58I actually... Can I just interject? All right. Yes, Sonny, please. Hello. I don't like the spitting in the... Are you really tasting? No. That's right. That's right. Because I think that when you do that, you really lose out on all the flavors you get at the back of the tongue. There's a lot of flavor. Yeah. Yeah. Back there. You got a lot of taste buds? You do. With different receptors? I think it's trash. Okay. Spitting is trash.

JVL00:14:21Anti-spitting. Swallow. You are leading Victorino. I always swallow. I never spit.

Vic00:14:26You are leading Victorino into dangerous ground. Look what I'm doing. I'm actually waving myself. I'm getting a case of the vapors. Gene? I'm getting a case of the vapors. So, what they did was, there was about 12 judges or so. And they broke us up into different tables. And so, we're in tables of three or four judges. And each of us is given different categories. There are so many different categories for American whiskey. So, my categories were two categories of rye, unaged, and the 12 and under set. I'm not a big fan of 12 and under. I just want to be for the record.

JVL00:14:51That shocks me.

Vic00:14:52Yes. Okay. Let's move on. Then there was corn, and malt, three grain, and wheat whiskey. You would not think ... I would not go out of my way to say, "Oh, I want a wheat whiskey." You were the most surprisingly delicious.

Sonny00:15:05Oh, we did. Wheated bourbons are the best.

Vic00:15:07By far. And the three grain, I did not like at all. My big concern was being completely off from the other judges, and then be outed as a novice.

JVL00:15:16Oh, so you just made your decisions not based on your actual intuitions and analysis, but on what you thought the other people next to you would say.

Vic00:15:22No. No, no, no. I would just take a chance. I'd take a chance. I'd say like, "Okay, going through these, oh, I really like this. I hope they like it too. Wow, I just ... " And then I would come across one and I'd say, "There's something wrong with this." I just don't like it. And then later on, we'll have a discussion and we'll take turns, like, "Okay, why don't you take this round?" And I'll say, "Okay, number six, I think I didn't really like." And they'll say, "Yeah, me too, and me too." It's like, "Oh, thank God." The only difference is in the descriptions, because they'll be talking about hints of creme anglaise and- Vanilla. Vanilla, right. Oh, what was the other one? Saddle leather is one. Burnt caramelized sugar. And my descriptions are like spicy, hot, heat, burn. But you also had the score. And that's where I was really most amazed, because I'd be like, "Really?" My big fear is, like, I'll say one and they'll say 10. You know? Scale of what?

JVL00:16:12One to 10? One to 10. 10 being outstanding and one being, "Don't drink this."

Vic00:16:15Were you the East German judge? Well, I don't know. So I was in church, so I said, "I really like this. I gave it an 8.8." And then the other judge, who was like, you know, a distiller, an actual distiller, and he'll be like, "Oh, I gave it an 8.9." I'm like, "Yes!" You know? So I was glad that there were all these consistencies.

Sonny00:16:29We ate- Kristin Soltis Anderson can tell us about- What is the- This is clearly- What's clustering? It's clustering. I mean, this is like the-

JVL00:16:38Clearly clustering of the- So he didn't actually have that.

Vic00:16:40No, but he wrote it down. We all wrote down our stuff ahead of time. I could see. They're all written down.

JVL00:16:44Oh, I had the same thing as you. No, no, no, no, no, no. We all had sheets of paper. This is what pollsters do. They look around. Everybody else, "Oh, they have Missouri 15." No, no, no, no, no.

Vic00:16:51That's not true. Plus four. We all wrote down our stuff ahead of time, and then we read what we wrote down. Just remember, this is-

Sonny00:16:58Sometimes there are differences. There are people out there who are listening to this show and who are trying to decide which of the Substandard guests they want to come and judge their whiskeys. This is Vic talking. This is Vic talking, not Sonny, who actually knows things. Yes.

Vic00:17:13There were a lot of- There were actually-

JVL00:17:15What qualified you to be in this show?

Vic00:17:16I'm not asking this to be a smart ass. Oh, yes, yes.

Sonny00:17:19Because you're a vodka guy. He literally wrote the book on vodka, which means he can- I wrote the book on vodka.

Vic00:17:22... talk about anything. Anything. That's exactly right. All spirits. Ridiculous. But I've written a lot about whiskeys. I just wrote about rye whiskey over the weekend. And so I've been following that. The more I say I-

JVL00:17:32I mean, I've written a lot about tennis, but I don't get invited to go play Wimbledon. That's unfortunate. Okay.

Vic00:17:38Just out of curiosity. Yeah. That's it. Anyway, but no. Frank Coleman from Distilled Spirits Council recommended me. Oh. Oh, so that's how it is. I see. And I said I'd love to. As you know, I drink a lot of brown spirits. And anyway, ate a lot of crackers in between as well. And I wondered at some point if there was a cracker competition and they're just actually taking breaks with bourbon because it was like the reverse of that. It was sort of a deep thought. So the point is this. The point is we selected finals that were tiebreakers. There was two really amazing bourbons in a tiebreaker that you would have loved. One was like your classic traditional bourbon. You could almost fool me and say it's scotch. You know what I mean? That good. And the other one was like grass and herbal and it was amazing. And I'd never had anything like it. And I ... Hello, Sonny.

JVL00:18:27Please. Tell me what's going through your mind right now. Penny for your thoughts, Santino. You'll never have it because I'm sure it was really expensive.

Sonny00:18:34My favorite thing right now was Victor saying, "This bourbon was so good, I thought it was a different kind of spirit."

Vic00:18:41Well, it was in the single malt category, so ...

Sonny00:18:44Do you think he shouldn't have been judging?

Vic00:18:46Well, how dare you? Anyway, the point was I got fairly similar scores, not always, with the other judges. Our choices then get sent to London. By PricewaterhouseCooper? By PricewaterhouseCooper.

JVL00:19:00I assume there's a guy carrying a metal briefcase that is handcuffed to his wrist, and he goes immediately from the hotel to the Dulles Airport to get on the first Concorde ride to fly across and drop it. That's right.

Vic00:19:19I have it. I have it right here. I didn't take pictures of all the ... There are all these unnamed bottles, but anyway, this was the only competition going on in the United States for the American whiskeys. There was one going on in Toronto for the Canadian category, and one in Tokyo for the Japanese. It goes into London, so our job is really to represent. The most important thing is, again, thinking about the consumer. You know, Sonny, you think about the consumer and think, "Is this something they'd like to drink?" I had to make that decision, and finding the best American whiskey to compete. Can an American whiskey win in London? I don't know. We'll see if there's any justice. Speaking of justice ... I'm sorry. Hold on.

JVL00:19:55I like to think of some distinctions. Some distiller down in ... What's the state where they do distilling? Kentucky? Sure. Virginia? Who has spent his entire life ... His dream, always, was to be a whiskey distiller.

Sonny00:20:09He's kind of hunchbacked. He's got a crooked eye, and he's got a straw boater on.

JVL00:20:14Suffered tremendous misfortune as a child. All he's ever wanted to do was distill. He's created the perfect brown spirit, and the entire fate of his existence ... Right here. ... is on you. Right here. But I'll tell you ... That's great. Thank you. Yes. That's right. This is why I always tell writers, "You may never, ever, ever allow your sense of self to be tied to anything beyond your control." Yes. Smart. Because you have no idea who, or why, or how you're going to be evaluated by the rest of the world. Sonny, you really look ... I've never seen you this upset.

Vic00:20:50Yeah. He didn't want to discuss it at work.

Sonny00:20:52He was very quiet. No. It's fine. I mean, it just is a reminder that everything is garbage.

Vic00:20:57I look forward to next week's competition when I'll do the whatever. What? I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. What? I just wanted to see Sonny's reaction. I believe his heart stopped. I believe his heart stopped. What would the next one be? I'm going to Tokyo for the Japanese whiskey competition, Sonny, but I'll be thinking of you.

Sonny00:21:13Are you really? Take a week off work. It'll be fine.

Vic00:21:16Oh, God. That's good shit. Okay. Well, pretend that we didn't get that interruption, and I say we'll see if there's any justice. Speaking of justice ... Speaking of justice, over the weekend, Justice League was at the, technically, at the top of the box office with $94, $96 million, followed by Wonder with $27 million. What is Wonder?

Sonny00:21:34Wonder, that's big with the religious set. No, no. It's about a kid who has ... It's young adult stuff? No, no. This is for kids. There were tons of church group sales. Really? Yeah. Because my kids have just read the book together, and this is a kids' book.

JVL00:21:55There's nothing in this book. There's literally nothing in this book, which is religious. The movie may have found an audience with those people.

Sonny00:22:02I don't think it is ... Right. I'm not saying that it is a God wins movie or whatever. God's Not Dead. It's not one of the God's Not Dead movies or anything like that, but it got huge pre-sale numbers.

Vic00:22:16Three People You Meet in Heaven, or something like that.

JVL00:22:18No, because what the book is about is it is about basically empathy. The book tells the same story from the point of view ... From the point of view of three different characters, one of whom is a disabled, horribly disfigured kid, another of whom is a kid who sort of teases him and bullies him at school. Another is from a kid who tries to be his friend at school, and it's actually one of the hallmarks of psychological development of children is the ability to see the world outside of themselves, because all children are born narcissists. The book is an exercise in trying to build that and stretch those muscles for kids. It's actually kind of good in that way.

Sonny00:22:56Yeah, I will never see this movie, because it looks like it would make me cry.

Vic00:23:00This is not a near-death experience movie, though.

JVL00:23:04It's not one of those. No, nothing like that. Nothing like that. I don't know how the movie is.

Vic00:23:08I'm just speaking to the book. And in third place was Thor: Ragnarok, with 21 million. So what's going on here with the numbers? It fell short of expectations, yes, for Justice League? Oh, yeah. What were they expecting? What do you think they were expecting or hoping for?

JVL00:23:26They were not preparing for that, but I'm saying what this movie was conceived of.

Sonny00:23:30Right, right, right. I would say back two years ago, when this movie starts production, they were hoping for a $150 to $175 million opening, in the range of like a Suicide Squad or something like that, which opened to- The Avengers. Or The Avengers, or-

JVL00:23:43They wanted this to be a top five grossing movie all time.

Sonny00:23:46Yeah. And they spent $300 million on it, apparently, somehow. I don't know how, because you don't see it. You don't see it on the screen, that's for sure. And it's only down from here.

Vic00:23:56It's only down from here, $96 or $94 million, and next week it's going to be lower. $96 million. It will drop 65%.

Sonny00:24:00Week over week. It will be lucky to get to $225. Wow. I would say. Domestic.

JVL00:24:07Now, this is a catastrophe, the likes of which ... I mean, everybody fixates on the actual bombs, you know, the John Carter of Mars is the ... John Carter.

Vic00:24:18Yeah.

JVL00:24:19John Carter of Mars with the King Arthur. Lone Ranger. Right, the Lone Ranger. I would argue that this is a bigger bomb. This is a bigger bomb because it is one thing for a movie which you are hoping to become a tentpole franchise to not pan out. To have a movie like this, which is supposed to be the springboard from an existing series of IP to take the entire universe into the next level financially, not work out like this, suggests enormous danger for a company whose vision of what their next five to seven years look like financially is tied to this series of properties.

Sonny00:24:55This, you know what this reminds me of? So after, I'm going to talk politics for like 20 seconds here. After election day, Hillary Clinton gave a speech, conceding officially and, you know. And so in her room, in the room were all of the supporters there. And they're all teary and they're all, you know, sad. And they're sad because she lost, whatever. But they're also sad because they have just seen millions of dollars of potential income get wiped out. Millions of dollars. I mean, like jobs in the administration, followed by jobs in the private sector, kind of trading off all this, followed by, you know, tenures at the Clinton Foundation. There was millions, there were tens of millions of dollars of potential wealth wiped out in that room. And that is, on a smaller scale, what has happened here. Because, you know, the idea would be to take Justice League and then you're going to have the Aquaman movie coming out, which is already done, right? That's already in the can. Is it? Oh boy. I mean, it's the James Wan movie. It's like, I'm pretty sure that's either already done or maybe they'll have reshoots or something. I don't know. But that's ready. They are trying, they've been trying for years to get this Flash movie going. They keep losing directors, rewriting scripts.

JVL00:26:07As Richard Rushfield said, hell will freeze over before there's a Cyborg movie.

Sonny00:26:12There will never be a Cyborg movie. Cyborg is the worst character in this whole movie. The worst must plan.

Vic00:26:18Who is the actor who plays Cyborg?

Sonny00:26:19Ray Fisher? Is that right? I'll have to look it up. It's either Ray Fisher or Ray Price. I don't remember because I actually used both in my review, which I wrote at 11:00 PM the night before, or the night it came out. Ray Fisher-Price? No, this is what was happening. I'm in my living room, surrounded by my daughter's toys, and I'm like, "Ray Fisher," and then later I'm like, "Price." Wait, hold on. Anyway, Fisher-Price. Anyway, it's a disaster. Ray Fisher. It's a real disaster, and I think that it is fair to say that the only viable property that Warner Brothers/DC has right now is Wonder Woman. Yes.

JVL00:27:01No, I really didn't. I'm not just playing around. I think that what they should do coming out of this is simply stop and reboot. Everything. Another reboot. Yeah.

Vic00:27:14I mean, literally, I would start over. Do you think they need to reboot even like a recast of Batman and Superman 2? You think all of it?

JVL00:27:21Wow. The stink on this movie. I mean, we could talk about it. Okay. Do you want to do a big review? Who?

Vic00:27:26Which of you? You both saw it. I did not. Both saw it. Which of you wants to do the review? Do you want to do the review? You can do the review.

JVL00:27:33No. You know what? Do we even need to do a review? We can just have a discussion about what's going on. We can talk about the movie. In 30 seconds, what's going on is--

Sonny00:27:40Sorry. Spoilers. If you're listening to this and you want to see this-- If you're listening to this-- Spoiler film. Come back in like 20 minutes and we start talking about Thanksgiving. I would say, so the 30-second capsule review of this is-- Aliens have started showing up. Weird parademon alien things have started showing up on Earth, and Batman and Wonder Woman realize that this is going to be a problem, but they also realize that they cannot defeat this in their current state, so they have to recruit a team, which includes The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg, to fight the menace. But they also realize that this will still not be enough, so they need to bring Superman back to life, which they do with one of the Mother Cubes. I don't know what the hell-- Mother Box. Thank you. I mean, I literally don't even know what they're called, obviously, so what they do-- and the reason the Mother Boxes are in the mix is because Steppenwolf, who is played by Kieran Hines, apparently--

JVL00:28:35And not the band. Not the metal band.

Sonny00:28:38Not the metal band. I was as surprised as you. Steppenwolf, who is, I guess, Darkseid's brother? Whatever. He says for Darkseid, because he's teasing the next of these stupid movies. Some relation to Thanos. Oh, I mean, I'm sorry, Darkseid. Darkseid is collecting the Mother Boxes so he can destroy the Earth for no reason. He just wants to conquer. That's what he does. He wants to conquer. Because he was born to be wild. Exactly. Thank you, Gene. And so they use the Mother Box to bring Superman back to life, who comes back to life, and then he fights the Justice League for, like, five minutes, and then he goes away. And then they're like, "Well, Superman went away. I guess we have to fight Steppenwolf on our own." And then Superman shows up at the end. Now, the whole point of this-- the whole point of this Superman coming back to life thing is there-- there is a kernel of a nugget of a good idea in here somewhere, which is, if you look at the DC films, they have all been about the ways in which Superman would upend the sense of place of humans in the universe, right? They are-- they're basically about how we-- our sense of self and sense of place would fundamentally shift. And if you take Superman away, if you just have him killed, you would-- there would be another massive reaction. People would lose hope. There would be struggles in the streets, et cetera, et cetera. I can buy all this. And they, like, touch on this very briefly in the first five minutes or so of the movie. And then they just totally jettison it. And it turns out that what we actually need Superman for is to punch people really hard. That's like the-- that's what we need Superman for. Did I punch him hard, Lois? I need to punch him hard, and I need to punch him-- now look, I think there's also a place for this. Because you know what gets people hope? People who punch really hard. That's why we all love Muhammad Ali, that's why we all love George Foreman. People who punch hard, they're great. Like, you-- they just totally get rid of this kind of whole philosophical, ideological idea of what Superman represents to turn him into a guy who needs to come back and punch real hard. Which, like, fine. Fine. The real problem with this movie is that it's totally incoherent. I have-- I'm just going to lay this out. I have no idea what Aquaman's relationship to the Atlantean people is. I have no idea what Steppenwolf is really doing. Like, there are scenes in the movie where Steppenwolf, like-- --beams down from, I guess, his ship?

JVL00:30:55His boom tubes.

Sonny00:30:56He's-- oh, so those are boom tubes. They don't say that, but I'm telling you what they are.

JVL00:30:59Is he coming from Apocalypse, then? Some other dimension in there, but none of this is explained.

Sonny00:31:04Anyway, none of this is explained. But he, like-- so he'll, like, boom in, and he'll grab one of the boxes, and then he booms out. Right. He booms in, grabs a box, and then booms out.

JVL00:31:12Now, why does he have to boom out? At the end of--

Sonny00:31:14Because he's immortal and invincible. Right. Well, who could say? But he's not, actually, because he can get punched really hard--

JVL00:31:18Right. --by Superman. Or beaten by an army of the people-- Oh, yeah. --meeting at Mordor, in the way that they steal Lord-- the Lord of the Rings scene.

Sonny00:31:26Oh, the Rite of the Rohirrim? Yeah.

JVL00:31:29Yeah. Where, in the first time, 5,000 years ago, when he was driven away by the Atlantean army and the Amazonian army.

Sonny00:31:34The Atlanteans, the Amazonians, and the humans. The humans. The men. Joined forces. The world of men. God, this movie's so bad. It steals from-- but anyway. So at the end of the movie, he boom tubes away again. Mm-hmm. To where? Apocalypse, in theory. I don't understand. But nobody understands, because nobody knows where he's from. Nobody-- it doesn't--

JVL00:31:49And he's high science and has spaceships with-- so why is he using boom tombs if he also has spaceships with warp drives? Yes.

Sonny00:31:56None of this makes any sense. None of this-- all right, so, I'm sorry. And Cyborg is the worst character ever. He has no personality. The actor who plays him is very boring. His powers are lame.

Vic00:32:07What are the powers?

Sonny00:32:08But also, like, super power.

JVL00:32:09Infinite.

Sonny00:32:10Like, he is literally infinite. He can, like--

JVL00:32:12In the way that R2-D2 can make anything that you need to happen happen. Any technology.

Sonny00:32:16He could fly. He can, like, hack into things and-- Oh, he's a cyborg. And, like, he can also make-- Laser eye. He can make-- he can make jets fly faster, apparently. Yes. That's one of his magical tech powers. Yes. The whole thing was terrible. So this is-- JVL.

JVL00:32:33This is a serious question. I-- so I went back this morning while I was on the treadmill, and I watched a little bit of Batman versus Superman, which I did not like, and which I think we can fairly judge as a failure. I would argue it's kind of an interesting failure.

Sonny00:32:48The theatrical, yes. The theatrical cut, yes.

JVL00:32:50Director's cut's better. But that said, it is a real movie. Yes. It has coherence within the musical score. It has locations. It is shot on location throughout. It looks like a million bucks. You can see every dollar on the screen. It goes to the trouble of, for instance, putting the three main-- the four main characters in a room together in an interesting way when they get to the fundraiser at Luther's mansion, in a way which-- Gives you information about them and moves the plot forward. I mean, it is a competently made piece of filmmaking and storytelling.

Sonny00:33:32Piece of storytelling. I don't buy everything that happens in it, but it-- yes.

JVL00:33:36This movie is so bad, I honestly couldn't say whether or not it is better than Suicide Squad as a piece of filmmaking and storytelling.

Sonny00:33:46Wow. And we can talk about why that is. I think it is. I think it is. It's very close. But this is a real question.

JVL00:33:55It's very close. I mean, this is the level of how bad this is.

Sonny00:33:57I do think it's-- I think it's better because Suicide Squad wasn't just bad. It was bad in ways that could have been fixed in the editing room, like it's repetitious. It's repetitious in ways that it shouldn't be, that you could like fix by just taking things out. This is not bad like that. This couldn't be fixed. This is unsalvageable. It's unsalvageable with what we have on the screen. I don't know what they cut to make it under two hours, 'cause it was clearly, like the goal of this movie was to make it-- To make it short, and to the point, and just go from action beat to beat to beat.

JVL00:34:28I'm not trying to be smart-ass. I look at a movie like this, for which a giant portion of Warner Brothers' future-- I mean, Warner Brothers was being in the process of being bought by AT&T, right? This is an enormously important movie from a corporate point of view. I can't believe that the people-- The people in charge there released it as it was. I mean, it is such a debacle. I don't know how you let something like this out in this form without stepping in and taking over the movie.

Vic00:35:04Well, my question was, is there a clear culprit for this failure, this massive failure? Is there one thing that stands out? Can you talk closer to the mic, please? Yes.

Sonny00:35:11I don't want to touch the thing. You're leaning far away from it.

Vic00:35:14People can't hear what you're saying. I'm practically rubbing my lips against the Styrofoam. You're not at all. It's really scary. Just pretend you're at the gym. Is there something that really stands out in terms of the failure?

JVL00:35:27Yeah. Yeah. Like what caused it? There are. I mean, do you have three minutes for me to launch into my-- Yeah.

Sonny00:35:34Do it. We've got lots of time.

JVL00:35:36We've got lots of time. I mean, the problem here is the script, and there are lots of other problems as well. You have a movie which is both underdeveloped and bloated at the same time, where the emotional foundation is too skinny, but yet there are all sorts of extraneous elements crammed into it. Why do we spend any time with commissioners? Why do we spend time with Commissioner Gordon? There's no reason to do that. When we go down to Atlantis, we have a conversation between Aquaman and Amber Heard, talking about a series of characters that we don't know, we have never met, we don't ever get to meet, and that have no bearing on any part of the story at all. Why is there a Russian family living by themselves in a shack outside of a nuclear reactor? We don't need this Russian family. We don't need to see them there. Why do we have Ma Kent, Diane Lane, coming to New York? We don't need that. There's no reason for this. And this is everywhere the problem, and that is sort of the big thematic thing going on. But there are then a couple other things. First of all, this movie commits over and over and over the sin of telling and not showing. Let me give you the three big examples. The first is when we have Batman and his power set, you know, we're trying to emphasize that he is mortal, that he has no powers, he can easily be hurt, and this is one of the three big emotional beats of the movie. But then after he supposedly gets hurt, the next scene he's moving around as if nothing has happened. And so, again, we've been told something but not shown it, so it doesn't resonate with us. This happens again when Bruce is trying to build the team, and he confronts Diana Prince and says something mean about Steve Trevor, and everybody in that scene is pretending that they just had a DEFCON 1 level confrontation, when in fact it was sort of more like a faux pas. He got punched. He got shoved. Right. He gets shoved, and what he said wasn't especially mean. So we are being told that this is a real deal giant fight, but we're not actually shown anything important. But this happens all the time, and these are the key emotional beats of the movie, and they fail at the script stage. And then another one of the things, again, script problem, is the rebirth of Superman. The central conflict of the movie comes around. The question of whether or not they're going to bring him back with the side that is against it, arguing that these things never work the way you think they do. There's always a price to be paid, and this is a big, you know, what are we going to do? There's a price to be paid. We can't do it, but we have to do it. And so they go ahead and they bring him back, and everything's fine. There's no payoff whatsoever to the central conflict of the movie.

Sonny00:38:12Except for like the three minutes where Superman quite can't remember where he is.

JVL00:38:15Except for the three minutes of the movie where, and you know what, what drives me crazy about this? That Joss Whedon, who we are led to believe, led this thing through the editing room.

Vic00:38:26He knows about this, you know?

JVL00:38:28So there was a season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in which Buffy was killed, okay? And she went away for half the season. For half the season she wasn't on the show. They bring her back, and when she is brought back, her friends who have resurrected her are all patting themselves on the back because they believe they just saved her from an eternal torment and hell and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in reality, it turns out that Buffy had died a peaceful death and was up in heaven with God, and had been ripped out of it, and she comes back and she is depressed and freaked out because she hates being back in the world, but she feels like she can't tell her friends who went to all the trouble of resurrecting her, "Why did you do this to me? You've made a tremendous mistake," which creates all sorts of both internal and external conflict. There are real prices to be paid. You are cheating death, but you're not cheating death in a narrative way.

Sonny00:39:16Here, it did nothing. No.

JVL00:39:18Nothing. Right. And so, there are plenty of little things that we can talk about, like, for instance, the way the film looks on the screen, whatever you want to say about Man of Steel, which I kind of liked, and Batman versus Superman, which I didn't like, but whatever, those movies you can see every dollar, this movie looks like ass.

Sonny00:39:38Like, the scenes where they're in Russia and the, like, giant tendrils are coming out of the ground look like something, look literally like something from early aughts CGI-heavy movies. I mean, like, it looks like it was put together on a 2004 MacBook Pro.

JVL00:39:57The first shot we see of Wonder Woman in this movie, so the entry point for clearly the most economically viable character in this picture, she is standing on the arm of a Golden Justice statue, we come up in front of her with it, and the green screen work is so disturbingly that, again, I just looked at that and I thought, how did the studio head not say, stop, go throw another $100,000 at that scene, make this look right?

Sonny00:40:30Everything in it looks cheap and low. Everything looks bad. How does this happen? Suicide Squad doesn't look that bad. It doesn't look great.

JVL00:40:45It doesn't look great, but at least there are scenes on the ground in a recognizably grounded real world.

Vic00:40:52Is it because of a sizable chunk of the budget goes to salary? Is that where that went?

JVL00:40:56On a movie like this, money was no object.

Sonny00:40:59They spent $300 million, and I don't know on what. I do wonder if they just ran out of time with reshoots. Could be. If they were doing reshoots two months ago.

JVL00:41:11Something emblematic, I hate to harp on score, but one of the things that I like a lot about both Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman, is the score. Is it somebody we know? Yes. The moment when Superman comes back, did you catch this, Sonny?

Sonny00:41:26The Christopher Reeves?

JVL00:41:27They throw in one measure of John Williams. Yeah. One measure. Here's the moment, which should be the key emotional turning point of your movie, and you are so cheap and unimaginative that all you can think to do, is reach back and throw in four notes of nostalgia. It's self-defeating.

Sonny00:41:53It's self-defeating because it's not just that they're cheap, and Danny Elfman, who recycles his own Batman theme at a point in the movie, it's not just that Danny Elfman's a hack who has no original ideas, though he is that. What about The Simpsons? That was 30 years ago. I mean, Sam Raimi's Spider-Man is the last good, the best good score he did. And that is basically just a riff on the Batman score from 15 years before that. No, if you listen to the score, it is totally unmemorable, except for when it's stealing from pre-DCEU DC films. Yes. When it's taking the John Williams score, when it's taking the Batman score, he borrows from Man of Steel, which is good, and that's like the one moment in the score that I was like, oh yeah, I like that. That's good. Next to the rest of this universe that they borrowed from Wonder Woman's theme. I mean, everything about this is unmemorable to bad. I mean, I think we have not really focused enough on the awfulness of the scene in Atlantis, where Jason Momoa, who I actually like as Aquaman, I like his Aquabro kind of like fratty-like- What's up, dude? The ride's not over. What's his accent? Dressed like a bat. I dig it. I mean, whatever. I get it. It's at least a thing. It's an idea. It's a coherent formulation of the character, even if it's not one that we're familiar with, and even if you don't really like it, it's at least a thing. And he goes down to Atlantis, and he talks to literally Amber Heard. I have no idea what that character's name is. Just talks to Amber Heard, and he's like, Oh, you're here. Where's the queen? Oh, wait, she's dead? I think? And then it's like- She wasn't nice to me. They're talking about characters that literally never appear in the movie and make no sense. This movie, maybe it would have made more sense if Aquaman the movie had come out before this film, like they should have done. Like they should have done. I'm sorry, but you're introducing three brand new characters, and that's two brand new characters too many. Save Aquaman for his own movie. Save Aquaman for a movie where action actually takes place under the water. He's basically a dumbed down, powered down version of Wonder Woman fighting in a Russian wasteland above ground. It's so dumb.

Vic00:44:18It's really... They're not going to use that in the commercial study. It's so dumb, Sonny Bunch. It's so dumb.

JVL00:44:25Do you know what the cinema score was on this? Because I'm curious as to what... So at my screening last night, I saw something I have never seen in my life. Which is? The gentleman in the row in front of me,

Sonny00:44:37two-thirds of the way through the movie,

JVL00:44:40took a phone call.

Sonny00:44:41Just took a phone call there?

JVL00:44:44No, like his phone rang. He held it up. I'm sitting watching him looking down. He sees that it's like, you know, JJ27 or something.

Vic00:44:53I'm like, I think he was paying him to send it to voicemail.

JVL00:44:55He opens it up. Starts talking on the phone. And nobody minded. Including me.

Vic00:45:03Wow. Yeah. That tells you something.

JVL00:45:05I mean, he wasn't loud and obnoxious or anything. He actually did it in the most respectable way that one can take a phone call. Which is clearly, by the way, non-urgent. He was not a doctor. He was not asking, you know, what condition is she in? I'll be there, stat. He, nobody cared. Yeah. And I saw people, because we were sitting pretty far back in the IMAX theater. I saw people texting all throughout the movie and nobody gave a crap at all. That sounds about right. And you know why?

Sonny00:45:31I didn't either.

JVL00:45:32Yeah. This is, the movie could barely hold my attention. And I'm pretty sympathetic that it's hard to make, it's hard to make a good blockbuster movie because if it was easy, everybody would do it all the time. Even so, to fail at every level like this, like, is, is also hard. I mean, this is like going 0 and 16 in the NFL.

Sonny00:45:53I did like The Flash and people in my audience seem to like The Flash. The one good scene, the one good scene is the fight scene where Superman comes back and he tracks, he starts, Start tracking his eyes. Because we've been used to The Flash just running circles around people and when he can't do that and kind of like stumbles over his own feet, that's a good moment.

JVL00:46:12It's a great moment, except for the fact that it gives rise to a misconception of Superman's powers. And by misconception, because it's a narrative problem. If Superman is as fast as The Flash or is functionally as fast as The Flash, then you don't need The Flash. In order to make sense and to keep everybody's interest in the conflict, everybody has to be special in some way and so The Flash has to be faster.

Sonny00:46:35Yes, right, no. Well, that's true, but also it just gets back to the point that Superman is totally overpowered.

JVL00:46:40Yeah.

Sonny00:46:40He's like, he's, it's like, it's like if you wanted to, I don't even know what the proper street fighter analogy is, but it's like, having a street fighter where you have Ken and, I don't know, Vega and, John Leif. And Zangief all rolled into one. Like, as fast as one, as agile as the other, as strong as the third, you know, like, it's, it's, it's, and it totally plays contrary to, I mean, I guess, I mean, I just don't know how they make another movie with Superman. Who would be, who could possibly oppose him?

JVL00:47:14It is the, the, the ease with which he dispatches Steppenwolf in about 15 seconds without Steppenwolf being able to lay a glove on him does suggest, okay, well, so what do you do? How do you make anything interesting? And they, so they haven't figured out how to bring it back. And the worst part is

Sonny00:47:31they don't even tease a Darkseid movie after this. They tease an Injustice League movie. It's like, you're gonna, okay, you're gonna throw, what's, who's the guy with the mask?

JVL00:47:41They did, I didn't stay for that. Oh, yeah, there was a, there was a, you skipped those things.

Sonny00:47:44Who's the, who's the Teen Titans villain who's the, Deathstroke? Deathstroke. So they tease Deathstroke, Deathstroke breaks Lex Luthor out of jail. Oh. And they go to one of Lex's yachts. And, and he's like, they formed a League of Justice.

JVL00:48:02What?

Sonny00:48:03Maybe we need a League of our own.

JVL00:48:07And Luthor in this,

Sonny00:48:08so Luthor, he's gonna call it Injustice? Luthor and, Luthor's gonna, because we're gonna so wet at the conference, he's gonna start not seeing himself as the hero? Lex Luthor, and Deathstroke, how are they going to go up against Superman? I literally, it doesn't make any sense.

Vic00:48:21I have a question, is that Mark Zuckerberg you're talking about? Okay, yes.

JVL00:48:25Okay, good. That's right. This is a bad movie. Good, I'm glad I skipped it. 30 minutes later.

Vic00:48:31I did a, I did a Marvel weekend with my son, actually. We went to see Thor Ragnarok. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Did Gene go with you? Nobody cares about Marvel.

Sonny00:48:39Marvel's garbage. DC is the best. I still think DC is the best. And then, and then on Saturday,

JVL00:48:45You sure Gene didn't go with you? No, I thought about it.

Vic00:48:46I mean, he thought about it, but he was busy, otherwise preoccupied. And then on Saturday, I actually, and Michael really loved Thor Ragnarok. He thought it was funny. Yeah, he laughed.

JVL00:48:57Did he like the Hulk dick joke?

Vic00:48:59He was like, wow, what's going on there? But what he loved was the ships chasing after each other, and of course, you know, they mentioned that Jeff Goldblum's ship is an orgy ship, and I'm not about to explain what orgy is, but then they press a button and these fireworks go off, and it says, it's like the song about happy birthday, and he thought that was the funniest thing. And then he was the one who actually pointed out to me watching the stingers about Thanos' ship, and I didn't get that at all. He says, that's the ship from Guardians of the Galaxy. And I said, oh, okay. I didn't know that. And then we saw Age of Ultron, just to catch up, because they were free on TV. And how did he like the forced sterilization stuff in that? He didn't know what was happening. Because that movie's a little much for kids. A little bit much. I tried to explain that you can't have babies because they took out the uterus, you know, where the baby is.

JVL00:49:48Does he know how babies are made

Vic00:49:51and where they come from? He claims, but I think he might have just erased it that one time I told him. And then we saw Winter Soldier. Well, you've told him?

JVL00:49:58You've given him the whole... Thank you for that. Where's Facebook Live when you need it? He demanded... He's nine.

Vic00:50:05Yes. He demanded to know. And I told him once, and then he was like, do you know what you do

JVL00:50:09when your child demands to know something? Talk about something else. You say,

Vic00:50:12hey, I think baseball's on. You just lie. This is why people think Starks bring. I've lied before, but anyway, I said, okay, anyway. And then... You see a big bird. And then Winter Soldier. Goes to the cabbage patch. With Michael? Winter Soldier, yeah. We saw it the whole weekend. Well, but these are, remember, this is on demand, so it's like TBS, Winter Soldier, and Fox FX.

JVL00:50:34Oh, okay. Okay, so these are edited out. They're not on Netflix? Winter Soldier's great.

Vic00:50:38No, I mean, so it's like, oh, it's great. It's on demand. And then it'll be like TBS.

JVL00:50:41You can buy them on Amazon, so you can see them anytime you want. It's like $12. I don't want to break the bank for the doctor's gift.

Vic00:50:47I had no idea. I have no idea what we were missing, though, because this was the TBS version or the FX version. Winter Soldier's really good. Yeah, I liked it. So we both, like, I got the sense he did not, no?

JVL00:51:00No, I like it,

Sonny00:51:01but I've never had any desire to watch it again. I liked it the one time I saw it. I was like,

JVL00:51:05oh, that's pretty good. Pays off.

Vic00:51:08Robert Redford's great. He is great. Anyway, so I got the sense that he did not, like, age of Ultron so much, but he tried to force himself to say that it was okay.

JVL00:51:19I'm sure that is the least interesting to him. Thor Ragnarok, his favorite of the three? Yes. I would assume. Yes. Thor Ragnarok and probably Winter Soldier

Vic00:51:26and then Age of Ultron.

JVL00:51:27See, I think Winter Soldier would be a little slow for a nine-year-old, actually, because there's a whole portion of that where, like, it devolves into road movie with Cap and...

Vic00:51:35He kind of liked that, but again, he liked Close Encounters of the Third Kind when there's not much going on there. The reason why I was going to say I didn't really have no desire to see Justice League is because everything's so busy. Everything is so insanely busy. But you know who else is busy? HelloFresh customers, that's who. And HelloFresh loves that they wear their busyness as a badge of honor. While the holiday season can creep toward chaos, there's a festive hustle and bustle you should take time to enjoy. In that spirit, HelloFresh says, go ahead, embrace the hustle and bustle. They'll be there to calm the chaos in the meantime. HelloFresh does the shopping, planning, and delivery, so all you have to do is hustle, bustle, and enjoy. Finally, you can enjoy not just the show, not having to plan dinner, spending money on takeout for an easy night, or worry about gathering ingredients week after week. HelloFresh offers a wide variety of chef-curated recipes that change weekly. You won't spend all night in the kitchen because recipes only take around 30 minutes. All the ingredients come pre-measured in handy labeled meal kits, so you know which ingredients go with which recipe. Feel confident when cooking HelloFresh with the simple recipes outlined on pictured step-by-step instruction cards. They offer three plans to choose from, classic, veggie, and fresh. HelloFresh is delivered right to your door in recyclable, insulated packaging. It's all for less than $10 per meal. I had the Thai Spiced Pork Meatballs, the Adobo Loco Steak, and the Carolina Barbecue Chicken. Again, I thought the quality of meats and veggies were very high. It's just the right amount of spice, and I do appreciate that the recipes were outlined on pictures because I sometimes need that when I'm reading instructions to make sure I'm doing the right thing. And it's great that they measure everything ahead of time. HelloFresh has a special offer to listeners of the Substandard Podcast. For $30 off your first week of HelloFresh, visit HelloFresh.com and enter promo code SUBSTANDARD30. One more time, to try HelloFresh and get $30 off your first week, go to HelloFresh.com and use promo code SUBSTANDARD30 at checkout. And as you all know, this is Thanksgiving week. I think lots of people are probably listening to this as they're heading up for their holidays. And Sonny, well JVL, you had an idea for this and Sonny came out and created it. What's happening? Did you guys see my Instagram?

Sonny00:53:49I don't, I'm not on Instagram. I'm not on Instagram. No, never mind then. I'm not a child.

JVL00:53:56What are we, oh yeah,

Sonny00:53:57we're doing the, Okay, Sonny, what's happening? JVL demanded that we do a bracket for Thanksgiving foods and then he whined about having to do the work for it. So I stepped up.

JVL00:54:07No, no, this is not at all what happened. I stepped up. I volunteered to do it and then you started.

Sonny00:54:11And I was like, hey, whining and complaining. I'm gonna do this thing. So we have here a bracket, everyone. We got a bracket. We'll put a picture of this on the Substandard Facebook page and the Substandard Twitter feeds.

JVL00:54:23Do you have a pen so you can fill it out as we go? But I do, it's in my bag. But anyway, so we're gonna go. Did you name your regions?

Sonny00:54:29No, I didn't name any of the regions, but there is a dessert region. That's, there's. So you named one of the regions.

JVL00:54:34I named one of the regions. You named 25% of the regions? Okay. Okay. This is why I should have done this.

Sonny00:54:39There's no rhyme or reason to the other regions. It's just, I just seeded things. I just seeded them. So you could name them? It's like in the appetizer region. It's like in the NC, but they're not all appetizers. They're not, there's only one region that is themed. It's the dessert region.

JVL00:54:52Well, maybe you should have taken this seriously the way I would have done and actually seeded the things so that. Yeah, but your list would have had

Sonny00:54:58shit like Tofurky on it, so nobody wants that. Everybody wants it. All right. Gosh, that would be awful. First up, I'm just gonna go down the list. Yeah, yeah, sure. We're gonna vote? Yeah, yeah. We're gonna vote?

Vic00:55:07Yeah, but based on the three of us. Based on the three of us,

Sonny00:55:09there can be no ties. No ties, no ties, impossible. First up is turkey versus cranberry sauce. Turkey. Cranberries. Turkey, obviously. Okay. Turkey wins.

JVL00:55:17Well, I'm sorry, cranberries are the single best thing about Thanksgiving. The entire point of everything. You disagree, gone, goodbye. The entire point of everything here.

Sonny00:55:24It was the number four seed in this and also the number 16 seed overall, just FYI. All right, number.

JVL00:55:30This is like the eventual,

Sonny00:55:32this is like Princeton meeting Georgetown. Next up, gravy. Don't bring that up. Don't bring that up. Gravy versus yams.

Vic00:55:38Gravy.

Sonny00:55:39Gravy. Gravy.

JVL00:55:41Pass. They're both disgusting. Who would eat either of those things? You can't pass. There's no passing.

Vic00:55:46Turkey and gravy. I'd pass. A Thanksgiving without turkey and gravy, that would have been Jonathan's bracket. That would have been something else.

Sonny00:55:50The next round is going to be very hard then because it's, all right. All right, next up, stuffing versus rolls, like bread rolls. Stuffing. Stuffing. Stuffing.

JVL00:56:02Stuffing is so strong.

Sonny00:56:03This is a very important matchup. It's the corn matchup. Excuse me? Corn. Oh. Corn, creamed, versus corn, colonel.

Vic00:56:14I've only had the colonel in my Thanksgiving dinners, but if there was creamed, I would have taken the creamed. So you vote creamed. Yeah, this is talking about the ideal. For me, I would choose creamed.

Sonny00:56:26I vote corn, colonels.

JVL00:56:29Classic 7-8 matchup. Could go either way. Give me the creamed.

Sonny00:56:33Cream. Cream it is. Creamed wins. 8-9.

JVL00:56:368-9 wins.

Sonny00:56:36Oh, 8-9, right. Sorry. Next up, mashed potatoes versus potatoes au gratin.

Vic00:56:44You know, everyone's down on mashed potatoes. I like potatoes au gratin, but for Thanksgiving, I've got to be mashed.

Sonny00:56:49Well, we have to remember, this is Thanksgiving specific.

Vic00:56:52This is not my personal fantasy. Okay, so mashed.

JVL00:56:56Depends on... Now, hold on. With the gravy from the other side of the bracket. Hold on. Are we talking about somebody who, like my lovely bride, who does mashed potatoes in a really serious and good way? Or are we talking the flakes that you pour out of a pot? In the most ideal.

Sonny00:57:12No, we're talking about the best version. So the best version of mashed potatoes.

Vic00:57:16Best version of both versus the best version of au gratin. I like au gratin a lot.

JVL00:57:21This is a very tough choice. I'm going to lean au gratin, but I won't be upset if you go mashed. You go au gratin.

Sonny00:57:27I have to go mashed. I have to go mashed because, again, this is a Thanksgiving. I respect it. I've never had the au gratin on Thanksgiving. If we're talking about, like, a trip to Morton's, maybe?

JVL00:57:36Au gratin. Poms. Au gratin. The pom. Yeah.

Sonny00:57:38I mean, you know, but if we're talking about at home, also mashed potatoes easier to get right than potatoes au gratin at home. This is, like, a thing to consider. But we were talking about the mashed potatoes. I agree. I agree that we're talking about, like, the best.

JVL00:57:51If we're going back to, like, hey, what you could possibly get at home, then I would make

Sonny00:57:55it unanimous with mashed. Okay. All right, mashed. There we go. This is so exciting. Next up, green bean casserole versus Brussels sprouts. I know what you want. I'll give that to you. You know, the committee.

JVL00:58:04I'll give you the green. Yes. I'll give the committee here putting their. This is, like, you know. Like, you know, oh, well, Duke's going to the Southeast region. They created it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm talking finish the season. It's a walk for Duke. 17 and 16. But they get a number one seed, and they play their first four games in Raleigh.

Vic00:58:21Yes. That's an away game, JVL, for Duke. They get to play all the way far away in Raleigh. String bean casserole. That's fine. Green bean casserole. Green bean casserole.

Sonny00:58:30What do you got there?

Vic00:58:31What do you got there? Just put your stupid green bean.

Sonny00:58:34Yeah, that's right. It's not going to get out of the next round. Okay. All right.

JVL00:58:38Because Brussels sprouts are disgusting. Do you know that this is a thing now? No, but I would say- People are all like- No, no. Everybody loves Brussels sprouts. That's a big thing. When I was growing up- I've always loved Brussels sprouts.

Sonny00:58:45When I was growing up, we would have Brussels sprouts, but they would be like boiled. Boiled Brussels sprouts. Yes. And they were literal trash. I would rather go to bed hungry. It's like you had balls in your mouth. I would rather go to bed hungry than eat those.

Vic00:58:56Balls of vegetables, I meant.

Sonny00:58:58Balls of vegetables. Juggling. But I would say that the new generation of Brussels sprouts, the ones that are kind of- New Jack. Fried. They're over- Open flame. Yeah. You get some bacon in there.

Vic00:59:10Oftentimes, though, people are, because it's out everywhere, a lot of people are overdoing it. Yeah. They're over-cooking it. Right, right, right. And they get soggy. Yeah, it's terrible. You want it? You got it right. Okay.

Sonny00:59:20But a well-done Brussels sprout is not terrible. Okay, now we're into the dessert region. Now we're into the dessert regional. Really, it's the pie regional. The Midwest. Now, remember, we're talking about Thanksgiving, specifically. We're talking about Thanksgiving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. First matchup, pumpkin pie versus sweet potato pie. Okay.

Vic00:59:38Pumpkin.

JVL00:59:42Jeez, that is...

Sonny00:59:46Going to need you to talk into the microphone.

JVL00:59:50Those are the two kings of the pies. No.

Vic00:59:53Sweet potato had their chance on the other side of the bracket under yams.

JVL00:59:57It's true. Pumpkin. Pumpkin. I go pumpkin. I also go pumpkin. Okay. But I love a good sweet potato pie.

Sonny01:00:04I'm actually surprised that you go with... Sweet potato over... In the next round, we have pecan pie versus apple pie. I would say pecan pie is a more... Pecan pie. I love pecan pie. Love it. See, I go apple, but I understand this. I understand. Pecan pie. Apple's good. Apple's very good. For the Thanksgiving, pecan pie. I can live with this.

Vic01:00:25Unless it's Lauren McCormick's apple pie, which is very good.

JVL01:00:29Does she do a good apple pie?

Vic01:00:30Amazing crust. Okay.

Sonny01:00:32It's a lot of lard. All right. Now we're going back. We're going back. All right. Turkey versus gravy.

Vic01:00:37That's an insane matchup. It's like non-sequitur, but okay. It's the Gonzaga versus... I guess the answer is turkey, I guess. I guess the answer is turkey. I like the turkey with the gravy. It makes no sense.

JVL01:00:52Turkey.

Sonny01:00:53Turkey. Gotta go turkey.

JVL01:00:55Disgusting.

Sonny01:00:56See, I separated gravy out because gravy goes on so many things. It's like a side unto itself. Okay. All right. All right. Now we have stuffing versus creamed corn. Stuffing. Stuffing. Stuffing. Yeah.

JVL01:01:11But with stuffing, it's stovetop, right? Two... French stuffing, mine. No.

Vic01:01:14No stuff? Sorry. Stovetop. French stuffing. Stovetop, my mom's is the best. Stovetop. Sorry. Right? You haven't had mine.

JVL01:01:20You're with me, Sonny? Stovetop. I know we have.

Sonny01:01:22We've had this disagreement last year. Yeah. You have trash...

Vic01:01:24French stuffing. Trash stuffing. It's chestnuts, ground pork, celery. It's amazing. Look it up on the internets.

Sonny01:01:30Okay. We have mashed potatoes. Mashed potatoes versus green bean casserole.

JVL01:01:34Mashed potatoes. Mashed potatoes. Oh, green bean casserole pulls it out.

Sonny01:01:40Oh, no. This is not Florida butter. All right. Mashed potatoes. Whatever. Boy, we've got a lot of number one seeds winning so far. Let's see how it happens here. Old chalk. In pumpkin versus pecan.

JVL01:01:51Love them both. Pumpkin. Pecan. Oh, I get to tie break. Yeah, you do.

Vic01:01:58But I'm... I'm not heartbroken at pumpkin.

Sonny01:02:03I gotta go with pumpkin here.

Vic01:02:05Yeah, I know. It's the tradition. It's the tradition. I gotta go with pumpkin.

?01:02:07It's the tradition.

Vic01:02:07I gotta go with pumpkin here.

Sonny01:02:08I mean, with like a nice dollop of Cool Whip on top. I'm having vanilla ice cream. See, I go with Cool Whip. Whip.

Vic01:02:15The Cool Whip. Our friend Jay Nordlinger actually likes cheesecake with vanilla ice cream, and I remember John Pod saying to him, you sick F.

Sonny01:02:24Wait, cheesecake with ice cream? Ice cream, yeah. That's a lot of... Yeah. Anyway. That's like 6,000 calories in a serving. Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot of goodness.

Vic01:02:32Okay.

Sonny01:02:33All right. Final four. We're in the final four. We're in the final four. So the final four, it's all the number one seeds. It's turkey and stuffing and mashed potatoes and pumpkin.

Vic01:02:45There's no George Mason or VCU in this. Okay. Okay.

Sonny01:02:49All right. Turkey versus stuffing. Stuffing. I'm going to say stuffing. Whoa. Big upset. Upset. Duke is done. Duke is done. The Duke of the tournament. I got to go turkey because, I mean, turkey is the center of the meal. This is the thing that you're eating for your sustenance. Everything else is just dribbling. Dibs and drabs on the side.

JVL01:03:08Turkey. If I had these four things on my plate in front of me, turkey is the one I wouldn't eat.

Sonny01:03:13Wow. Well, that's because you're a psychopath. I hope there's meat in the stuffing.

JVL01:03:16Have I mentioned how much I hate dogs? Hi, Jonah.

Sonny01:03:21Okay. On the other side. On the other side, we have mashed potatoes versus pumpkin pie. This is a tough one, I think. I think this is a real tough one.

JVL01:03:28Sonny, you first.

Sonny01:03:32We're talking about things to eat at the Thanksgiving meal. I have to go mashed potatoes. I could live without pumpkin pie. I like pumpkin pie a lot, but without mashed potatoes, what's even the point?

Vic01:03:44Mashed potatoes with gravy, ideally. I was kind of thinking about pumpkin pie, but since you said mashed potatoes, not that this is clustering or any way, because I don't judge like that, as you know. Don't judge like this.

JVL01:03:55Let me make my case first.

Vic01:03:57Go ahead, JVL.

JVL01:03:58Because pumpkin pie is a meal in itself. It is. It is a meal in itself. If all you have is a plate full of mashed potatoes, what do you actually have? Nothing. The mashed potatoes, they've got to be supported by other role players. You've got to have some gravy. You've got to have some cranberries. Ideally, you'd like to have a little bit of turkey to mix in there, right?

Sonny01:04:16You can't just eat pumpkin pie.

JVL01:04:19It is. Yeah, you can. You can just eat pie. Pie can be its whole own thing in this, whereas mashed potatoes, as great as they are, they're a role player, supporting cast. I'm going to say, what do you think? Mashed potatoes.

Vic01:04:32That was a good argument to make, but I grew up in a house where mashed potatoes was had maybe twice a year, so I loved mashed potatoes. I never have it.

Sonny01:04:42I never have it. This is the thing. I get it like once a year. I was a rice house. All right. Not to get racial. And the final matchup. Why is that, Vic? I don't know why. The final matchup here is stuffing, shockingly, stuffing versus mashed potatoes. We're basically going for the king of the sides. Hold up. Hold up.

JVL01:05:04I say we close the show out now. And we do the reveal of our winner on Facebook Live 10 minutes from now. No. No.

Vic01:05:16Sade. Wrong. Answer is. Like, incorrect.

JVL01:05:19Go ahead. We do it like with the Dark Tower. We're multi-platform. I actually don't know what's happening right now.

Sonny01:05:25Go ahead. JVL, you have to vote first.

JVL01:05:28Mashed potatoes versus stuffing.

Sonny01:05:30Mashed potatoes versus stuffing.

JVL01:05:31Stuffing has walnuts in it. Stuffing has cranberries in it. Mashed potatoes, when they're good. Mashed potatoes, when they're good, are really whipped. There's got to be meat in the stuffing. So there is some element of, I guess, some sour cream, lots of butter. Boy, you want a lot of butter in those. I love butter. Sour cream is not a cream cheese. You might even have chives on top of them. You might even have some bacon bits. Not real bacon, but bacon bits.

Sonny01:05:55Well, but this is, you're talking more like a baked potato right now. No, you can put them in here. Than mashed potatoes.

JVL01:06:00All these things put together.

Sonny01:06:03I can only have one on my plate? Only one. Only one. Stuffing.

?01:06:07Stuffing.

Sonny01:06:08Stuffing. Stuffing. Stuffing. Stuffing. Three stuffings.

JVL01:06:13Ladies and gentlemen, stuffing has won the first annual inaugural Substandard Thanksgiving And the winner is Kansas.

Vic01:06:24Stuffing.

Sonny01:06:24All right. Drive safe, everybody. Stuffing. Wait, hold on. As we were sitting here working, I came up with a consolation bracket for dessert drinks because you've had all this food. You want to sit at your table. You want to have a nice little drink while you're watching the football. I agree. I agree. All right. Okay. All right. Here we go. People are going to like this. This is a nine hour. All right. Yeah.

Vic01:06:41People want this. This is the commute episode.

Sonny01:06:43All right. Sherry versus Port.

JVL01:06:44Go, Vic.

Sonny01:06:44Port. Port. Port. Port. Port. I also say Port. All right. Port versus bourbon versus scotch.

Vic01:06:52Bourbon. Bourbon. Bourbon. It's Thanksgiving. I couldn't tell the two apart. Let's be American here.

Sonny01:06:56I vote bourbon. All right, bourbon. So it's Port versus bourbon.

Vic01:07:00I know what the answer is for you. Port. Bourbon.

Sonny01:07:04You say Port. Port. Love Port.

Vic01:07:05I'll say bourbon. Bourbon. I can see you going, bourbon. I could see Sonny like seven hours in, multiple bourbons. Yeah. In fact, I might be making some Manhattans on Thursday.

JVL01:07:15I think that's what I'm going to do. That's great.

Vic01:07:17All right. Good show, guys. Let's transition. Speaking of bourbon, spirit of the week is 10-cup American whiskey right out of Colorado, courtesy of our good friend, Captain Bill Dwyer, and moving right along to Corrections Editions. I've got a bunch. I can read them. Don't. Do we have time for this? Yeah, really quick. Believe me. At this point. At this point, it makes no difference. Rat Race is not a remake of Cannonball Run. It's a remake of It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, and it's a cult classic in the Warren House. Wayne Knight, John Lovitz, Kathy Najimy, Amy Smart, Rowan Atkinson co-starring, says listener Mike Warren.

?01:07:51Who cares?

Vic01:07:53Amy Smart. Okay. The movie that Sean Connery says he most enjoyed doing was The Winded Lion from 1975, but this is obviously when PJ met him before he'd had his rebirth in Untouchables. Otherwise, the answer would have been Entrapment. Just kidding. Okay. Sonny, you're right. It's Sidney Lumet.

Sonny01:08:10No, I said Lumet.

Vic01:08:11Oh. No, I said Lumet. You said Lumet. Okay. You're right. It's Sidney Lumet. The broad champagne glass Justin Salter reminds us are called coupes. And finally, a special shout-out to listener Joe Fiorelli, listening to us during his Thanksgiving drive with his girlfriend, Faith. Joe, thanks for listening. Don't be a go-goots. Maybe you'll get to give her the go-goots. Oh, sorry.

JVL01:08:32I thought this was the Opie and Anthony show. Wow.

Vic01:08:34It's not Opie and Anthony. Go-goots. It's Joe and Blue.

JVL01:08:36I can't believe you didn't do your radio voice.

Vic01:08:39It's a long-distance dedication. Long-distance dedication to Joe Fiorelli. That's all the time we are giving to this episode. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments, tweet us at Victorino Matus, at Sonny Bunch.

Sonny01:08:52At JV Last.

Vic01:08:53No, but happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes or Google Play. Just type in Substandard on a podcast. We're there. Leave a review. Tell your friends. Until next time.

JVL01:09:05You know what I would like? A million dollars. I would like it if our listeners tweeted at us pictures of the exterior of their favorite rest stops as they do their Thanksgiving commute. Not the interior. Not bad. But I mean like a picture of Molly Pritchard. With the name of the rest stop on it.

Vic01:09:32Vic? Clara Barton.

JVL01:09:33Is Clara Barton still your favorite?

Vic01:09:34No. I try to hold it. I hold it until Delaware. Let's get out of the state if I'm heading south. Oh, southbound. Southbound.

JVL01:09:39The new Delaware house is really good. Northbound.

Vic01:09:41They've got a Baja Fresh. Oh, really?

JVL01:09:44Yeah.

Vic01:09:44Northbound, I'll say James Fenimore Cooper. The first one is, I forget what the first one is, or Nathaniel Hawthorne. It's one of those, I think. I try to skip the first one in the state because everyone goes to the first one in the state after.

JVL01:09:55So do you use the Turnpike or rest stops? Or do you use the Parkway rest stops?

Vic01:10:01Oh, I wish the Parkway. I'd go to Cheesequake. Cheesequake, right? Yeah, absolutely. But no. We're coming up from- When do you leave? You say that this is too late. I said 6 a.m. Wednesday morning. Way too late. I can't believe so many people will have their shit together at 6 a.m. There might be traffic volume, but everybody at 6 a.m., I think they're all heading 6 a.m. Really.

JVL01:10:23You've got to be on the road by 5. If you're on the road by 5, you'll be fine. If you wait until 6. He's also down further south than you.

Vic01:10:29You're further south. I'm talking from, I'm getting right on the Beltway at 6 a.m.

Sonny01:10:34Don't do it.

Vic01:10:35When and where are you going?

JVL01:10:36We will see. Are you staying around?

Sonny01:10:38I'm staying in town, so I don't have to travel like an animal.

JVL01:10:43I'm sure it's fine.

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