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#78. The Substandard on Stranger Things
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Micro episode (12:13). All three hosts present. The episode is entirely a Stranger Things Season 2 discussion.
Dudes Chatting — Stranger Things Season 2: Vic and Sonny are fans; JVL refuses to watch, citing skepticism of TV hype cycles and arguing that the "golden age of television" won't endure as an art form because of the sheer length of the format. Sonny praises the show for capturing a Spielbergian sensibility more authentically than J.J. Abrams does, and loves the period detail — Dragon's Lair, Dig Dug. Vic identifies strongly with characters born in 1973 and names Bob Newby (Sean Astin) as his favorite character. Sonny's favorite is Billy Hargrove, the archetypal '80s bad-boy figure. Both note the Paul Reiser casting as a nod to Aliens. A brief Keurig Smash mention appears as an aside.
Full transcript
JVL00:00:00Now we're live.
Vic00:00:07Hello and welcome to another micro-episode of The Substandard, sponsored by Donors Trust. I'm Victor Matus along with Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Just a quick reminder that full episodes of TheSubstandard are available every Thursday at 11 a.m. So, gentlemen, we're going to give this a go this week, I think. Last October 27, Stranger Things 2 came out on Netflix, obviously. JV, I wanted to talk about Keurig Smash.
JVL00:00:35Yeah, okay, good, done. No, I don't want to. Let's talk about Stranger Things. You said you wanted to talk about Keurig Smash. Let's do it.
Sonny00:00:41Let's do it. Oh, we'll do Keurig Smash at the end? Yeah, okay. And it's good enough. We need to get that SEO, that keyword. Oh, my gosh. We're not going to talk about this. I'm going to mention it right now. Okay, okay, I'm sorry. Stranger Things 2, go.
Vic00:00:52Yeah, and we don't have any concerns about spoilers, do we? Not at this point.
Sonny00:00:56I mean, look, if you're... If you're listening past right now, you're going to get some spoilers, just FYI. At this point, it's been around for a while. You've already downloaded the episode, though, so we don't care. It doesn't matter.
Vic00:01:06And Sonny and I have been fans of these two seasons, and we've been trying to get JVL to watch Stranger Things for two seasons. Well, I mean, I wouldn't say we've been trying, but we've been mentioning that it's a show. So, Mike, and I think a lot of our listeners are probably fans as well. My question to you, Sonny, is the same as Hank Stuber. You were posited in The Washington Post, which is, the Stranger Things crossed the line from homage to derivative, or is it just right? Homage to derivative.
Sonny00:01:40I don't know. I mean, I do think that it kind of captures that sensibility in a way that I prefer to the way that J.J. Abrams does it. So, like, J.J. Abrams kind of just takes all of the component part. So, like, in the Star Wars movies, for instance, he kind of takes all the component parts. And rejiggers them to make something that looks superficially new, but is, in fact, quite very much a retread. And even in, like, Super 8 or something like that, it has, like, the idea of... There's something just kind of off about it. I think Stranger Things does a better job of capturing that Spielbergian type of idea, but also making something new. And I don't know if it's maybe just because he... He's, like, the Duffer brothers are, like, pulling in other influences, like John Carpenter and that sort of thing. So I don't know. Maybe it's just they are better at being derivative.
Vic00:02:41I agree. I mean, I don't mind it. I don't feel like it's sort of beat you over the head. It's not that 70s show kind of a thing. And I love the references from time to time. But I just think certain scenes just have a certain atmosphere that captures the high school scenes. The girls... My wife says this all the time. My wife says it. When she sees, you know, Nancy Wheeler and the other girls, they look exactly as she remembered them when we were in high school or junior high, for that matter. And it's one of these where... Why I particularly like it is because there are not many shows where you could pinpoint the characters being the exact age I am, you know? And I'm pretty sure that these characters were born in 73. That's what I'm saying. I see.
Sonny00:03:23So you're not saying that you are right now... 14. Yes. A young boy looking for other young children to be around.
Vic00:03:33You sure you're not saying that? No. Anyway.
JVL00:03:37Want to run for Senate?
Vic00:03:38What was Michael Scott's line in The Office when he wanted to show, you know, when he was going to do the online dating and wanted to show, you know, potential women that he likes children? I think his name was Kid Lover, I think, on the computer. Anyway. You're going to make a new start. Right, right. So anyway, no, I think they got it just right. It was really interesting in the first season, sort of the centrality of the role playing, hanging out in the friend's basement playing D&D. And then they're a year older, now they're going to the arcade. And that's what happened, sort of. You eventually graduated to being, your mom could just drop you off, you go to the arcade. And what I love about this, now this is 1984, what's the big thing in the opening episode? Getting enough quarters to play Dragon's Lair. Because even in 1984... So wait, that's, again, that's the one.
Sonny00:04:31I remember we were talking about this. Weren't we on an episode? Yes. That it's like this game where it's basically a cartoon. It's a cartoon. That's playing. No, I love that they have Dig Dug, because I actually played Dig Dug on a Commodore 64 for many, many years before.
Vic00:04:45It finally came out on Atari last year. Sorry, that's my big complaint. Atari was always behind. And I like that. I like that. I like that. Dragon's Lair is, they acknowledge that it's a big ripoff. Because it was exciting. It's a cartoon. But, of course, it takes, what, four quarters, JVL? That's a lot of quarters. Wasn't it?
JVL00:05:04I thought it was 50 cents. I didn't think it was a dollar. I don't think that there were a lot of stand-up machines that were. Yeah. I mean, and at that point, though, 50 cents was astonishing, because it was twice the price of a normal game. That's like Sit Down Spy Hunter, 50 cents. Was Sit Down Spy Hunter 50 cents?
Vic00:05:19Yeah. But, and what I like about it is what they actually enjoyed playing was Dig Dug. And the reason is this, and for me, and I can relate. They actually win a few levels on Dig, you know what I mean? It encourages you to play more Dig Dug. Whereas, Dragon's Lair, how long would you last? I lasted, what, a minute? Much like Cuba. Two minutes? Like, hey, I can finish one board. Yeah, yeah, and it keeps you going. Yeah. Anyway. And the other thing is, they had the return of three great 80s actors in Stranger Things 2. Winona Ryder, Paul Reiser. Paul Reiser. And with a great Aliens reference to that. And then, of course, Sean Astin. What was the Aliens reference? Well, he was Burke in Aliens. Right, right. And then in the movie, he is guiding the soldiers through the tunnels, telling them what to do. Yeah, oh, yeah, right, right, right. It was a disaster in Aliens. It was kind of a disaster.
Sonny00:06:06Yeah, no, there's the scene in Stranger Things 2 where they have, like, the moving dots. Yeah. When the monsters are coming in. Yeah, yeah, no, that was a good thing. Defender? Are you guys pro-Defender, anti-Defender? What's Defender?
Vic00:06:17Very anti. Why? I didn't last very long on that, despite the fact that you can go in reverse. You notice this? There was a game where you could not just go forward. And you had a radar. You did.
JVL00:06:27And they're trying to kill you, and they're trying to steal your humans.
Vic00:06:30There's a lot going on. Yeah, I see that. And by the time I get to the human, they're at the top of the screen, and now they're a mutant. Yeah. It was, I hated that game. I hated that game. So there was that. But I just wanted to say with Stranger Things 2 that my favorite character was, in fact, Bob the Brain. Bob Newby. Yes.
Sonny00:06:47R.I.P. Bob. I have to say I was really disappointed when he died. I mean, obviously he has to die so Wynoda Ryder and the sheriff can get together. Right. Like, that's the, that is the end point here. No, I, my favorite, my favorite, my favorite thing in, what's that? What did I know? We gave the people their spoiler warning. We did early on, early on. We gave the people their spoiler warning. We told them that, yeah. But I, no, my favorite, my favorite character in the new season was, like, the aggressively asshole-ish brother of Mad Max. Billy. Billy Hargrove. Who, like, who, who encompasses all of the 80s bad boy stereotypes at once. Right. He's like, he's like, I'm going to kill you. He's, like, playing basketball with his shirt off and, like, throwing his shoulder into guys like he's in Teen Wolf. And then he's also, like, trying to seduce. He's like Billy Zapka from Karate Kid. And then he's, like, trying to seduce one of the kids' moms at the end of the show. And it was just, like, everything about it. It was perfect. It was fantastic. You know what's. And stupid.
Vic00:07:44What's insane is, he is an Australian actor, right, who was a Power Ranger. Huh?
Sonny00:07:51Not, like, one of the original Power Rangers. No, I guess in the new one or something. One of the more recent Power Rangers. Yes, yes, yes. Billy Hargrove. So, faux Rangers. Yes, yes.
Vic00:07:58It always amazes me, though, in the series, how many of these characters are actually Brit actors. Hmm. And there's a fair amount. But they do such a better job at the English, at American accents, than I think Americans do English. I don't know. Okay.
Sonny00:08:10Wow. We need to make America great again.
Vic00:08:12There you go. Quit with this. It was really surprising. Did you, JVL, want to talk about Keurig and what is happening?
JVL00:08:21No, I want to talk about Stranger Things some more. Well, okay. Sure. Anyway, what I like about.
Sonny00:08:25Hey, have you started watching the first season yet? You were going to start watching. I was watching it on the treadmill. Yeah, on the treadmill. Did you start watching it? I've abandoned that. You're not going to. Did you try? No. Did you watch any episodes? No.
JVL00:08:35Because you know what? In 18 months, there will be another new best TV show ever. Starting with The Sopranos, I just had no patience for that. That's right. You were answering HBO. That's right.
Vic00:08:47You had no patience for good shows. No, no.
JVL00:08:49Look, I have no patience for this is the greatest thing ever. And this happens on television like every 12 to 18 months. But suppose it is.
Sonny00:08:57It can't be.
JVL00:08:59There's only one way to find out.
Sonny00:09:00But this is such a weird complaint.
Vic00:09:01This is like friends of mine who are very anti-whatever the movie was.
Sonny00:09:05You know, Star Wars, Titanic, whatever. But this is like, so it's like being angry that there's a new good movie every year. I don't quite understand the complaint.
JVL00:09:12No, no. No, because what it is, this is all about like cultural hype and conversation and everybody wanting to find shared space. This is in a weird way, this is the millennial backlash to bowling alone. We're going to find... We don't have civic organizations, we don't have families, but we're going to find something that we're going to take on as shared common culture, and we'll just call it the greatest television show ever. Have you seen The Wire? Mm-hmm. Have you seen The Wire? The Wire is so great.
Vic00:09:40It really was.
Sonny00:09:41Yeah, but I mean, like, things can also be good and overhyped.
JVL00:09:44You know what, if people said that about strange things, then maybe I'd watch it.
Sonny00:09:48I don't dispute that things get overhyped. They do. And this is like, I'm working, I'm currently noodling through a thesis on this about how I'm not entirely sure that anything from this golden age of TV is going to last, as like the great novels have or anything like that, because there's just so much content, and it takes so long to actually watch a television series.
JVL00:10:11And this is why it can never last the way a movie would, because you can't sit and consume a movie in one sitting.
Sonny00:10:16Right. I know. It's a problem. It's a problem that nobody is really thinking about and needs to be kind of dealt with, I think. Or maybe it doesn't, and it's just something we need to... To, you know, intellectually masturbate to? What is that gesture? I couldn't tell if it was masturbation or like the verbal... No, it's like... No, it's like... It's like... No, well, I wasn't... I wasn't...
Vic00:10:41No, well... There was more like Migs from Silence of the Lambs.
Sonny00:10:44Exactly, yeah. I made a Migs reference the other day. It was great. Very nice Victorino. Anyway, but I do think... I totally understand your point, but I think that getting angry about somebody saying a TV show is good, or lots of people saying a TV show is good, is just... It's like getting angry that people say books are good or that movies are good. I just don't... I don't quite... There are people...
Vic00:11:07On Twitter in our expanded universe, there was somebody who said that they thought Arrested Development's terrible, but they've never seen it.
JVL00:11:13When I run out of movies to watch while running, maybe I'll try television. But this is a function of time is finite. I only have so much to do. And so I'm going to consume movies and not television, because it is the difference between books or internet articles. I mean, Stanley Kurtz has this thesis that you can only be... There are three types of readers. You can only be one of them. There are book readers, magazine readers, and internet readers. And you can dabble in multiples, but you can only really devote yourself to one at a time. And when it comes to entertainment and consuming, that's probably true. And I have no interest in devoting any of my time to television.
Vic00:11:50I like reading Parade.
Sonny00:11:55Yeah. What is the... What is the trash, like, not quite tabloid reader? What are they called? Are those the... I'm sure it's fine readers.
JVL00:12:08They're called president.
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