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#65. The Substandard Tackles Bobby 'the Brain' Heenan
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Dudes Chatting — Bobby "the Brain" Heenan tribute: The episode opens with a clip of Heenan sparring with a play-by-play announcer. The hosts pay tribute to Bobby "the Brain" Heenan, who died at age 72 after a long battle with throat cancer. JVL leads the appreciation, praising Heenan's unmatched verbal quickness, his range of heel-manager personas (superior, outraged, cowering), his Hall of Fame induction speech as a piece of speechmaking, and his chemistry with Gorilla Monsoon. The group also confirms mid-episode that Kurt Hennig (Mr. Perfect) has in fact been dead since 2003. JVL explains the distinction between a wrestling manager (who runs a stable and speaks for his clients) and a valet (who accompanies a single wrestler). Other managers discussed: Paul Bearer, Jimmy Hart, and Lou Albano, who "went good." JVL and his friend Adam White share a recurring game of wrestling analogies to real-life figures, and someone suggests Twitter-era Bill Kristol as the perfect analog for Bobby the Brain. The episode closes on a somber note: JVL mentions that a 2005 Hall of Fame clip featuring Ric Flair and Roddy Piper includes crowd reaction shots of Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit, which he found painful to watch. No film or TV content appears in this mini-episode.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00I'll make a deal with you. If you apologize to me, and start treating me-- For what? For all the abuse you've given me the last three years, and treat me with a little respect, I won't get on your case about having this Tony Schiavone on all the time. Tony Schiavone? On Wrestling Challenge. You snuck him-- What's wrong with Tony Schiavone? He isn't welcome. By whom? By you? He's not capable to be in the same announcing booth as me. He's one of the premier play-by-play men in all of professional wrestling. I don't like him. I don't like him.
Vic00:00:32Hello, and welcome to another micro-episode of The Substandard, sponsored by Casper Mattresses. I'm Victor Matus, along with Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Just a quick reminder that full episodes of The Substandard are available every Thursday at 11 a.m. Well, he was mentioned on the show, and sadly he has passed. I'm not talking about Harry Dean Stanton. Or any of our other victims. No, it's his time. I wouldn't say our victims. Oh, you had a hand in a couple of them. Okay. But just a couple. I'm talking about wrestling legend Bobby the Brain Heenan, who died last week at age 72. He'd been fighting throat cancer for a long time. God bless. We did talk about him. In fact, one of you guys added a very funny gif. And I think it was Ric Flair throwing his towel behind, and Bobby the Brain catches it really. Really quickly, without missing a beat. It's fantastic.
Sonny00:01:28I do remember seeing that gif. Yeah, it was a gif. Maybe that was me. I don't remember.
JVL00:01:32JVL, you have thoughts. Was it Ric Flair or Mr. Perfect? Mr. Perfect. It was definitely Mr. Perfect. Yeah, that's right. Now I remember that gif. Because Sonny is. Yeah, that was because I'm Mr. Perfect. Ah, that's what it was.
Sonny00:01:41Kurt Hennig's still alive, right?
JVL00:01:45As of when we're taping this, Kurt Hennig's still alive. Okay, good. Wait, no. I think that's not true. You know, you talked about Bobby the Brain first. I'm going to effort Kurt Hennig. Here we go. Thanks.
Sonny00:01:54Nice work, Sonny. Oh, good. Well, no, the best part about wrestling in the late 80s, early 90s were the comic sidekick valet slash manager types. I never liked the girls, you know, Miss Elizabeth or Sherry. Who was Sherry, the crazy one? Scary Sherry? Scary Sherry. Sherry Martell? They never were that interesting to me.
JVL00:02:17They were more valets than managers.
Sonny00:02:20Well, what's the difference between a valet and a manager? Can you get into that for me?
JVL00:02:23So, in the valet-wrestler relationship, the wrestler is the lead, and the valet is there to accompany them. But in the manager-wrestler relationship, it is really the manager of the stable who is in charge, and the wrestler is doing his bidding.
Sonny00:02:38I see. So, he's like the brains. Also, Kurt Hennig, 100% dead.
Vic00:02:42Oh, no. That's sad. Well. I love that guy. But he was probably ancient by wrestling years. What was he, 50? 60? 43?
JVL00:02:53Born 1958, died 2003. 2003?
Vic00:02:59Yeah, that's about right.
Sonny00:03:01He's been dead for 14 years now?
Vic00:03:03Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jesus.
Sonny00:03:06What's fun is to think about how we're going to be having all these conversations about football players in, like, 20 years. Yeah. You know? Brain injuries.
Vic00:03:13I thought the problem was they weren't hitting enough.
Sonny00:03:16I don't know. Careful.
JVL00:03:17Sorry. No politics. Sorry. So, that's the difference. The manager and the valet. I see. Like, the manager has the stable. The valet. And also, the manager can have multiple clients. The valet typically is wedded to one wrestler, right? Sometimes, literally. Sometimes. Sometimes, even, not kayfabe. So, like, Miss Elizabeth can only be wedded to one wrestler at the time. Same with Tammy, although Adam White may correct us on this. But I believe the typical valet relationship is that they serve only one wrestler at a time.
Sonny00:03:48Sable. Mark Merrow and Sable. That was, like, getting more into the WWF extreme. Yeah. You know, era.
JVL00:03:54I was WCW during the Attitude Era.
Sonny00:03:57Anyway, Bobby the Brain was great, but he was always kind of a second-tier guy to me. I love Paul Bearer, because he, like, seemed really committed to his shtick of being a fake undertaker.
JVL00:04:10Paul Bearer was wicked committed.
Sonny00:04:13With his voice. Yeah, I mean, he was always ridiculous looking, like, kind of small and trembling and shaking. And then, of course, the mouth of the South. Jimmy Hart. Jimmy Hart was also extremely committed to his shtick. Enormous heat. Oh, yeah. He drew enormous heat, the mouth of the South. But is Bobby the Brain the only one who made the transition from manager to announcer that well?
JVL00:04:39And that's because he was unbelievably glib. Oh, yeah. He was fantastic. And Bobby's shtick ran the gamut of superior to outraged to cowering and simpering. And he could do it all. And it was fantastic. He had great body language. Fantastic body. And he was so quick. I was looking through some classic Bobby the Brain footage. And there is an interview with Mean Gene. And Mean Gene tosses off in a side about, I thought we were here to talk about X. Bobby the Brain says, sure, we could talk about whatever you want to talk about. But don't talk to me about it. And then just keeps going with the shtick. This is like verbal jujitsu. And he's so great. You should go. I went to watch his WWE Hall of Fame induction speech. And he is in bad shape. Oh, yeah. He's really in bad shape. He's already throwing. And he's sensational. I mean, just as a piece of speech making, it is a fabulous speech. And he is, again, he's charismatic. You could see why they wanted him as the face of the company. And he and Gorilla Monsoon. That's what I was going to say.
Vic00:05:49He was great with Gorilla Monsoon, the two of them in tandem. Very. Very close friends, too, in IRL.
JVL00:05:56Not kayfabe. Very, very close friends.
Sonny00:06:00Was he announcing when Hogan turned heel at the WCW?
JVL00:06:08I don't know. I would have to go back and look. Because he did move to WCW. Because he did move to WCW, right? He used to be with Gorilla Monsoon in WWE. But then there's a universe of time when he's doing with Tony Schiavone. I really, I think he was. And he was with them when Gorilla passed on.
Sonny00:06:26Yeah. Well, I don't want to, I may be totally misremembering this. It was vagaries of memory. But, like, I seem to remember him, like, when Hogan came out. I seem to remember somebody on this announcing team, and I'm pretty sure it was Bobby the Brain, maybe somebody else, saying, like, oh, is Hogan here to join Hall and Nash? And the other announcers kind of being like, trying to tamp it down. And, of course, he turned.
JVL00:06:51He was great. I think what I found so wonderful about him was that he was a little bit like Wile E. Coyote. He would have these grand plans of how he was going to get whoever, you know, Hulk Hogan typically during the Hulk monster years of the WWF. But then somehow he always was the guy who wound up holding the stick of dynamite that blows up in his face. And it was tremendously pleasurable to watch that. Like, watching Bobby the Brain get his comeuppance was one of the great pleasure centers. Super center dopamine hits of wrestling in those days. And I love the guy. I am sad for his passing.
Sonny00:07:30Were there any legitimately, like, good guy managers? I feel like all the managers are heels, basically, right?
Vic00:07:37That's not true. That's not true. Mr. Fuji.
JVL00:07:38Well, there's Mr. Fuji, of course, but exactly who I was saying.
Sonny00:07:42I mean, for me, I know he's part of the access and therefore in your stable, Vic. But, like, I mean, they're all... They're all basically bad guys, right? They're there to kind of turn the tide of the fight.
JVL00:07:55Most managers were baby face managers, but not all. There are...
Sonny00:08:00I'm sorry, were heel managers.
JVL00:08:01I'm trying to think of... Oliver Humperdinck. Lou Albano is the classic, right? Lou Albano was a bad guy. Captain Lou went good.
Sonny00:08:10Who was he the manager of? Cyndi Lauper.
JVL00:08:13Oh, no, wait, I get confused. The whole stable.
Sonny00:08:16That's a little before my time.
JVL00:08:17There were a bunch of them. But, I mean, typically, the manager is what you do... To, A, help a new wrestler get over, you give them a manager. And, B, for wrestlers who can't talk yet, who have not perfected their mic skills, you would give them a manager as the manager can do all the talking for them.
Vic00:08:31Not true. One of his clients is Andre the Giant. There's a line in The Princess Bride when they roll out Andre the Giant on fire. Do you remember this? They try to scare the common folk at the front of the gates. Oh, I do remember. And they light him and he's wearing a hood. And he says something about, like, you will burn by fire. And then, all of a sudden, to this day, nobody knows what he said. He could play it over and over again. Go back to that scene. He says something at the very end. Yes, it's like, what does he say? I don't know, but it's scary. You run out of the way. So, but no, but I mean, and it's interesting because he could be a heel manager, but his clients don't necessarily have to be, obviously, heels.
JVL00:09:09You know, one of the games my friend Adam White, who I've mentioned before, and I play sometimes, is wrestling analogies to real life. And we were playing this game. We were playing this game the other day and talking about the world of conservative journalism. I'm afraid where this is going. Somebody suggested that the perfect analog for Bobby the Brain, Bill Kristol. Twitter Bill Kristol. Twitter era Bill Kristol. Twitter Bill Kristol. I could see that. Not to end on a down note, as I was prepping for this and looking through.
Sonny00:09:45Not to end on a down note about the guy who just died, like all the other wrestlers.
JVL00:09:49Bill was watching a bunch of these Hall of Fame speeches, some of which are really great. And there's one from 2005 where Ric Flair is introducing Roddy Piper, two of the greatest wrestlers of all time. And they do crowd reaction shots. And there's one series of crowd reaction shots where they show Eddie Guerrero and then Chris Benoit. And I got to say, that was so painful. I basically had to turn it off. I'm sure it was fine.
?00:10:19Thank you.
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