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#63. The Substandard on Pumpkin Spice—the Flavor of Fall?
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Dudes Chatting — pumpkin spice and the flavor of fall: The hosts debate whether pumpkin spice has rightfully earned its status as the official flavor of fall or whether it has become overexposed and clichéd. JVL argues that grapefruit should be summer's signature flavor, which the other two dispute. The conversation moves to pumpkin-flavored beers — who makes them, whether they're any good, and the distinction between pumpkin flavor and pumpkin spice flavor. Maple emerges as a legitimate challenger to pumpkin spice's autumn supremacy, with the hosts weighing its merits. No film or TV content appears in this mini-episode.
Full transcript
JVL00:00:001, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I'm getting a new watch.
Vic00:00:10Hello, and welcome to another micro-episode of The Substandard, sponsored by Dollar Shave Club. I'm Victor Matus, along with Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Just a quick reminder that full episodes of TheSubstandard are available every Thursday at 11 a.m. So, gentlemen, it is almost fall, even though it's kind of still in the balmy 80s right now. But I think we decided we were going to discuss pumpkin spice for this micro-episode. What are we talking about? Pumpkins? Are we talking about the scent? Are we talking about scented candles, Starbucks, beer, or something else? JVL.
JVL00:00:48I want to talk about our feelings again. No. No. Save it for the next episode. So, Starbucks. Starbucks changed the world when it introduced the pumpkin spice latte. And pumpkin spice has now spread like a virus throughout all of America. Pumpkin spice candles, pumpkin spice ice cream, pumpkin spice yogurt. In fact, one of which I'm eating right now. It's true. From Siggy's, the Icelandic yogurt, which is fantastic.
Sonny00:01:17It's a little too lemony for me. A little lemony? It's a kind of lemony. Where do you get that, that Siggy's from? I don't see that at Giant. This is from?
JVL00:01:25Literally, from Giant. It's from Giant? From Giant.
Vic00:01:27I think you like it because of the way it's packaged. Look at the font. It looks like it was made in somebody's backyard.
JVL00:01:34I love the font. Why I like it is because it is high in protein, low in sugar. It looks like the official yogurt of McSweeney's.
Vic00:01:41Yes, it does. Basically, it does. It's the same font.
JVL00:01:44So, pumpkin spice scones, pumpkin spice muffins, donuts, lattes, beer. It's everywhere. And I would argue that pumpkin spice has become... It has become the official flavor of fall. Every season has an official flavor within the food universe. What? You may not have noticed it, but it has happened. Okay.
Sonny00:02:03This has creeped up on us in the last few years. What is winter's official flavor? Gingerbread. What is spring's official flavor? Peach.
JVL00:02:11What?
Sonny00:02:11Peach? Peach is summer. Peach everything.
JVL00:02:13Summer peaches. No. Spring peaches? Summer is grapefruit.
Sonny00:02:17Summer is grapefruit.
JVL00:02:18You're high. Grapefruit is everywhere. This is ridiculous.
Vic00:02:20You know what I had over the weekend? You're just making this up on the spot. You're just making things up.
JVL00:02:24So, first of all, grapefruit beer, as evinced by our friends at Schofferhofer, is sweeping the nation. It literally is not. It is 100% sweeping the nation.
Sonny00:02:32Literally, the only person I know who drinks this stuff is you.
JVL00:02:36B, I had over the weekend grapefruit-infused Pepsi. What? Pepsi has a little craft soda imprint that it puts out, the 1893 Bottle Works, and you can buy the original Pepsi flavor. You can get Pepsi exactly as it was first bottled. This is their... They're the answer to Mexican Coke. No, no, no. Their answer to Mexican Coke is real Pepsi, which is made with beet sugar, not cane sugar. I know a lot about this. Don't get me started. What's the difference between beet sugar and cane sugar? One is from sugar cane, the other one's from beets. One is from sugar cane, the other one's from beets. It's not complicated.
Sonny00:03:08No, but I mean like taste-wise.
JVL00:03:11I, weirdly enough, I slightly prefer the real Pepsi to the Mexican Cokes.
Vic00:03:18I can't explain why, but I do. Also in the retro bottles. But the thing you're describing is also retro bottles or is it?
JVL00:03:24It's a can, so it's very small, so you're getting like half-size cans, like the slim Red Bull-style cans. So like the seven-eighths cans. Yeah, and it's really interesting.
Vic00:03:34That's the most liquid, by the way, Europeans drink in a day is a little can. You ever notice this? That's how we're obsessed in this country about like seven, eight glasses of water. They just have little cans. Yeah, well, they also eat chocolate
JVL00:03:44as a sport health thing, right? You know, the Ritter Sport chocolate. Yes, Ritter Sport. Ritter Sport. And beer, they also have the excess. It's chocolate that you eat for your health.
Sonny00:03:52Tell me more about this healthy chocolate
JVL00:03:54chocolate.
Vic00:03:56It's not white, though. Never mind. Okay. JVL, continue, please.
JVL00:04:01So grapefruit, I had grapefruit-infused Pepsi. Grapefruit is everywhere. It is a big grapefruit-infused, sparkling water. Grapefruit is a thing that is happening, and you may not have realized it now, but within a year or two, you will. And that is the official flavor of summer. But we're here to talk not about summer, Can I just say one more thing about grapefruit? Fall. Sunny. Before we move on.
Sonny00:04:20The thing about grapefruit that is fantastic is that it is... It's one of my favorite breakfast foods because the grapefruit itself is only a device to deliver massive amounts of sugar to you. Like, you get the grapefruit, and you, like, divvy up the little sections, you know? Right. And then you ladle sugar all over the top of it, and then you eat it. It's amazing.
Vic00:04:38You put sugar on top of the grapefruit?
Sonny00:04:41Absolutely. You take the healthiest thing you can find, and then you add sugar to it. That's the American way.
Vic00:04:46Why don't you just get the jellied candies? You know, those Italian, those little wedges?
Sonny00:04:51Yeah.
JVL00:04:51But what is the texture, then?
Sonny00:04:54Yeah, it's, like, kind of crunchy. I think I've broken JVL's brain.
JVL00:05:00No, no. Because I have occasionally put a little drizzle of honey on top of a section of grapefruit. Yeah. Because then the textures work. You're still getting the sweetness of the sugar, but you're getting the textures meshed together.
Sonny00:05:10No, but the texture of the sugar on top of the grapefruit is great because it gives it a little bit of crunch.
JVL00:05:15I hear it's great for your teeth when you just crunch down raw sugar crystals.
Sonny00:05:20Well, no, it's processed. It's very processed sugar. Have you ever done raw sugar?
?00:05:23You don't do raw?
Sonny00:05:23Oh. I have made raw sugar syrup before, but when I'm putting sugar on top of things, I just want the most processed.
JVL00:05:32Could you just confectioner sugar on top of the grapefruit?
Sonny00:05:33If I could get away with just putting equal on top of it, I would probably do that.
Vic00:05:37How about like pixie stick? Do you ever open a pixie stick and just pour it on top of the grapefruit, Sonny?
Sonny00:05:41No, but I would. I'm not opposed to it.
Vic00:05:45Okay, so Jonathan was talking about the Starbucks, the pumpkin latte, and that came out in 2003. If you can believe it or not. But Dogfish came up with that beer around 1994, so that goes way back into the 90s. Sonny, that's what you're really a fan of, is the pumpkin spiced beer. You don't drink the coffees, do you? Do you drink the pumpkin spiced latte from Starbucks?
Sonny00:06:12No, well, that's because I almost never go to get coffee. I just get free coffee from my office.
Vic00:06:18Oh, Jonathan would love that machine. It's a Keurig that has never been cleaned in about five years, JVL. The lid is down, and ever since you told me what you told me, I don't go to it at all. All sorts of interesting bits.
JVL00:06:29Whenever I'm in the kitchen and I see somebody using the Keurig machine, I would say one out of every two times, even if I don't know the person, I'll say, you know, you shouldn't be drinking from that. Like, what? Well, if you come in overnight, like somebody has left an old keg cup in there, and the heating element is still firing, and the oils from the coffee bean are just, it's a petri dish you are drinking from something made from a living petri dish. And they'll never take my advice. They'll just keep drinking their Keurig. It's like using the communal water fountain in a school. Do you know who sponsors communal school water fountains? The local pediatric groups. Because it's just, it's like drinking from a stream of cholera for the children. It's the same.
Vic00:07:15I got a buddy who's a pediatrician
JVL00:07:18who likes to joke that the water fountain in the middle of the hallway at my kid's little hippie Montessori school has like built their satellite office.
Vic00:07:25Well, I mean, it's funny because you were always told, you know, we were always told you drink from the water fountain, you know, to have this distance. But it always amazed me there were kids who just put their mouths right on it.
Sonny00:07:34I thought the way that you were supposed to drink out of a water fountain was to wrap your mouth entirely around. Over the entire spout. Because you don't want to waste water by having it splash around. You just get it around the guard, right?
JVL00:07:46Water is precious.
Sonny00:07:48Water is precious. I mean, I've seen Mad Max Fury Road. I know what the world will look like without water. It's delicious.
Vic00:07:54And water from the fountain in school, it always had a particular flavor to it. It was a flavor. Yes. I believe the flavor was saliva. So, Sonny, you're a dogfish.
Sonny00:08:04Yeah, I like pumpkin beers because everything is better with alcohol, including pumpkin.
JVL00:08:11I mean, we could rank the pumpkin beers if you want. I don't know.
Vic00:08:15I don't feel that strongly.
Sonny00:08:17I would be interested to hear your ranking, but I do not personally have a ranking. I'll just drink whatever pumpkin flavor is on the menu.
JVL00:08:23I will drink almost any pumpkin beer. My favorite of the ones you can easily find is Blue Moon, which I like a lot. But Dogfish Head, who I like, I think I said this on another episode, I like almost everything Dogfish Head makes except for their pumpkin beer. Too much allspice or something. There's too much spice in it for me. Too much Allspark? If only. But I would say that, let's get serious for a moment. Please. The pumpkin spice brand is being threatened. Why? There's a new challenger on the horizon for fall.
Sonny00:08:53Oh.
JVL00:08:54Maple bacon. No. I believe... As a flavor for a beer? For everything. Maple bacon donuts are big. Yes, they are. Maple, that's true.
Sonny00:09:05But isn't it just maple then? Isn't maple just the flavor, really?
JVL00:09:08Maybe it is possible it is just maple. And I'm... Because you could... This is why the pumpkin... Look, with pumpkin, you can mix it with cheesecake, I guess. But after that, it gets a little thin, right? What do you pair it with?
Sonny00:09:19But maple goes great with anything.
JVL00:09:21Pancakes. Bacon. Sausage. Maple sausage is the best sausage. Maple is so versatile a player that if this was the UFC of seasonal flavors, I, the pumpkin spice, being the reigning champion, would be looking across the octagon at maple, and I would be worried. Here's... Did I just paint a word picture for you?
Sonny00:09:42Yeah. I mean, I... But the problem with this is that I don't think maple is limited to fall in the same way that pumpkin spice is. Maple is a pretty good year-round flavor. I wouldn't deny that, but fall is its time.
JVL00:09:55I mean, this is the time for maple. I don't know.
Sonny00:09:58When I'm sitting there...
JVL00:09:59The ears are turning, you got a vest on.
Sonny00:10:00When I'm sitting there in my shawl-collar cardigan, and I'm slowly eating, you know, my maple-soaked sausage, and I'm drinking my pumpkin spice latte, I would say that I probably only drink the pumpkin spice latte in the fall with the shawl-collar cardigan. Right? Like, I don't ever... I don't... I would eat the maple sausage and T-shirts and sandals and flip-flops and anything else. I don't think it's season-specific.
JVL00:10:32I'm sure it's fine.
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