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#60. The Substandard on Close Encounters, ranking Spielberg, and Ice Cream!
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Dudes Chatting — Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Spielberg ranking, and ice cream: JVL returns from vacation to an extended cold-open covering Sonny's lament over the closure of his local Chili's and the retirement of Yuengling's Raisin D'Etre beer, Vic's failed attempt to buy a Weber grill (too expensive), and JVL's childhood trauma of dropping an ice cream cone — which pivots the whole group into a lengthy ice cream favorites discussion (flavors, toppings, regional shops). The main segment centers on the 40th-anniversary re-release of Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Sonny saw it in the theater and found it genuinely affecting; Vic praises the opening sequences but remains more measured; JVL admits to childhood disappointment with the film, finding the alien revelation anticlimactic. Vic voices his Gene Shalit impression to deliver a comic review of Close Encounters. The hosts then spend considerable time ranking Spielberg's career, debating his peak period, his most underrated films, and where the late-period work fits. Ready Player One is flagged with mild concern given the source material. Mention of JVL's picks for best and most underrated Spielberg.
Spirit of the Week: Maker's Mark bourbon.
A Corrections segment closes the episode.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00The Weekly Standard is a production of The Weekly Standard, a podcast on movies and pop culture hosted by Victorino Matus), and Sonny Bunch, with editor Bill Kristol.
Vic00:00:30Hello, and welcome back to The Substandard, brought to you by Dollar Shave Club. Stop spending a fortune on gimmicky shave tech you don't need. Make the smarter choice by joining Dollar Shave Club. Get your first month for only five bucks with free shipping by going to dollarshaveclub.com slash substandard. I'm Victor Matus, along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last, I'd like to remind you that The Substandard is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. Just look at our podcast and search for Substandard. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a review. In addition, we'd also like to remind you, that Substandard show notes posted by Jonathan Last are often available every Friday at 11 a.m. at weeklystandard.com.
Sonny00:01:37Not often and every. I know. I love that.
Vic00:01:39It leaves people sort of confused about what's going to happen. You have to stay tuned. That's what the audiences love, confusion. They love confusion.
Sonny00:01:47Judging by the ratings of this show for the last two weeks, what they really love is confusion.
Vic00:01:51Yes. Sonny, how are you?
Sonny00:01:54I am bad. I'm bad.
Vic00:01:56Why are you bad?
Sonny00:01:57I have had two... Two major personal losses in the last week or so here. Tell us. Number one, I went to the Dogfish Head Ale House, one of our favorite establishments to take our children and give them delicious, high-quality food at a reasonable price in an environment that is suited for their tastes. This episode is not brought to you by Dogfish Head, by the way. No, it's not. It should be. But we go there and I sit down and I order my beer. I ordered a pumpkin ale. They're pumpkin. The first pumpkin ale of the season. It's really one of the highlights of my year. And then I get my beer and I'm sipping it and I'm looking at the beer menu because, you know, Dogfish Head is well-known for their craft brews and they have a wide variety and I like to kind of change it up sometimes. But usually what I get is the Raisin D'Etre. It's kind of a Belgian ale. Oh, I've seen that one, yes. Belgian ale. It's very, it's dark and it has like kind of a coffee aftertaste to it. And I was looking for it on the menu. I wanted to see, you know, that they, and they didn't have it. They didn't have it and they'll never have it again. They're retiring the Raisin D'Etre. And this is a brew that's been around for some 20 years. It was one of their original, like, you know, kind of big hits. Yeah, no, I thought it was the Raisin D'Etre. And, God, stop.
JVL00:03:18Just stop trying to do shtick while I'm pouring my soul out here. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Sonny00:03:23And I asked the waiter, I kind of cautiously called him over. I said, Do you guys not have?
JVL00:03:30Garçon. Do you not have?
Sonny00:03:31Garçon. The Raisin?
JVL00:03:33That's French for boy.
Sonny00:03:34And he kind of rolled his eyes. Oh, sorry, Sonny. Go ahead.
JVL00:03:39Thank you, Victorino. Well played.
Vic00:03:42Please, please continue, Tim Roth, please.
JVL00:03:45Oh. Oh.
Sonny00:03:47They didn't have it anymore. And the waiter was very, I could tell he's gotten this question a lot over the last several days. Because he kind of was like, nope, never going to have it again. Never going to have it again. It's gone. He was not very, he was not sympathetic at all to my plight. Did he laugh at you? He didn't laugh, but he wanted to, I could tell. And anyway, so that was. Did you do an end zone sack dance? That was the beginning. That was the beginning of my desolation trip. Because we get in the car, we go home. And on the way home, my wife notices something. And she doesn't say anything. I could see her like typing away furiously on her phone. I'm like, whoa, what's happening? So we get home, we pull in the driveway. And she remains in the car after we get out. And I'm like, God, something really terrible has happened. And she comes into the house and she says, Sonny, I have bad news. And I said, what? The Chili's is closed. My local Chili's is no more. It's closed. Just to make sure, we called the store's phone number and got the disconnected. This phone is no longer connected. That was your other place you go to. These are my two favorite places. Now, fortunately, the Dogfish Head is still there. And they have other beers. And honestly, maybe it's a good thing. It'll get me out of my comfort zone. I'll order some different things.
Vic00:05:04You know, you can go to Sweet Green. No.
Sonny00:05:08God, why would I? There's a shop right across the street from the Sweet Green. Why would I ever go to the Sweet Green? But, you know, maybe it's for the best. Maybe I can find a new Tex-Mex restaurant instead of Chili's.
Vic00:05:21Why don't you go to Summers in Arlington? You ever see that place?
Sonny00:05:23Man, it was a rough. It's been a rough couple days. It's been a rough couple days. It's been a rough couple days. It's been a rough couple days for me, guys. So, if you can just be a little more sympathetic than you have been thus far.
JVL00:05:33I don't understand the problem. There are 1,606 Chili's in America, but 2,016 Applebee's, which means that there are more Applebee's than Chili's, which means that Chili's isn't as good as Applebee's, according to the Bunch principle. Because if Chili's was so good, there'd be more of them. They'd have more. And the free market is so awesome that if Chili's was any good, it would still be in business, Sonny. I am. I agree. The fact that it's out of business means it wasn't good.
Sonny00:05:59No, but this is, the real problem here is the Millennials. As the news outlets have taught me, the Millennials are killing all the things. They're killing all the things. They've killed napkins. They've killed home ownership.
JVL00:06:10Napkins deserve to die.
Sonny00:06:11They've killed, and they're killing the chain restaurants. The Millennials don't like, they don't like BW3, apparently, according to the internet, which I read all the time, the internet. And they don't like Chili's. And it's a garbage generation. And they've stopped cooking. The Millennials. They've stopped cooking. What do Millennials even eat? It's just avocado toast all day long. Just gobs and gobs of avocado toast.
?00:06:33People.
Vic00:06:34Over the weekend, so. What did you do this weekend, Vic? I tried to get a new grill. Oh, and put it together yourself? Well, I've done that actually. I'm not even going to reply. I'm going to let Jonathan's laugh linger, that sinister laugh linger for a little bit.
Sonny00:06:52Did you get one of the ones with the parabola lasers? The infrared. The infrared? Is the heat of the sun or whatever? Did you ask Kate to start it for you?
Vic00:07:00No, no, no.
JVL00:07:01Well, I didn't get one. I'm afraid of the fire. Kate, can you start it for me?
Vic00:07:05He's very sassy now that he's back.
Sonny00:07:06Did you get a Prada cover? Like a nice leather cover to zip it up?
Vic00:07:11So, I went to the Home Depot in Seven Corners, which is, they say notoriously, the bad one. But it was closest one. I love that Home Depot. I don't like that one at all. We have a friend who actually went to the Home Depot in Merrifield. Is that correct?
JVL00:07:25You went to the Sniper Home Depot? Home Depot? Yeah.
Vic00:07:28Yeah.
JVL00:07:28I believe you think about that every time you go in the parking lot.
Vic00:07:30But if listeners aren't familiar, that was from 2002. That was the D.C. Sniper. There was a person killed in that parking lot. Anyway, so we go there, and they just make it very difficult. The last grill I have in my house, I actually did assemble it myself. They say, oh, it only takes three hours. It took about seven to put it all together. Did you use tools and everything? I was all alone. I didn't have any help. Why? I was all alone. Why on earth would you pay money? Why would you not pay the money to have it assembled? It was a gift from my sister when we first moved in, and one day there was a giant box in our backyard. Surprise! We got you a grill in a giant box. So that was my whole day. Jesus. Yeah. So anyway, but I took pride in putting that together, including the gas line, everything else. That was a big deal for me personally, a personal achievement. What was that motion that you just made to your face? You can never see it. You'll never see it on the radio, on the podcast. So anyway, I go there. Gas line.
JVL00:08:27Gas line or a hand. Never mind. Something. Or a shake weight. A gas line or a shake weight.
Vic00:08:32This is how I do the gas line motion. So anyway, I wanted to get this. Oh, he's into it. The three-grilled.
JVL00:08:39He's really into it.
Vic00:08:40The three-grilled Genesis, right, from Weber. You went to get the Genesis? I wanted to get it.
JVL00:08:47Of course, the doctor's kid gets the Genesis.
Vic00:08:50It was recommended by Mike Goldfarb. I'm sorry. I got the cheapest one available.
JVL00:08:53What's Weber's Genesis? It's big.
Vic00:08:54It's Weber. It's big. It's got like-
JVL00:08:56It's the most- It's the most overpriced grill that exists.
Vic00:08:59I got the three, not the four or five. 700.
JVL00:09:02Jesus Christ. Yeah. Now who's laughing at my parabola lasers?
Vic00:09:06You should see the one they were showcasing for 1,100. It was ridiculous. So anyway, I said, well, I'm interested. Did you just sell like a book or something?
Sonny00:09:13Where are you getting all this?
Vic00:09:14No, I work at the free Beacon, Sonny. What are you talking about?
Sonny00:09:18We are hugely overpaid.
Vic00:09:19So we're not. We're kidding people who listen who work at the Beacon. So I say, okay, what do I do? How do I get this grill? Well, you know, we could have it directly shipped to your home if you order it online, right? You get it directly shipped to your home if you order it online. But you don't want to do that because assembly takes forever, sir. So why don't you just get it assembled? They just looked at you and they could tell. Yeah, this guy couldn't do it. But you know, look, we assemble it for free.
JVL00:09:49We assemble it for free. And then just rent a truck to take it home. Well, that's what they said. And then you can just lift it down from the truck yourself.
Vic00:09:57That's exactly right, Jamie. Me and my wife. Okay, so they said, no. I said, well, don't you... Well, can't you do it yourself? I said, can't you... Well, we assemble it, but you have to take it away yourself. And you could put it... But I talked to this guy. He's great about fitting things in cars. And he said, okay, great. What car do you have? And I said, we have like a Highlander, Toyota Highlander. No, that's not going to fit. You're going to have... So we can assemble it, but you can't fit it in your car. So you're going to have to...
JVL00:10:20You only make three automobiles larger than the Toyota Highlander?
Vic00:10:23So then they said, okay, well, you can get... You know, we could, for $80, we could deliver it to your home for... Assembled to your home. But I tell you, sir, you know, sometimes we deliver it, and they come out broken, and then you have to send it back. So you shouldn't do that either. So you know what? I just left. It was like... You just walked away?
JVL00:10:41I just walked away. Or you could be a man and just put it together yourself. Well, that's going to happen. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Sonny00:10:46That's the stupidest... That's such a waste of time and effort. You know what I do? It takes like three hours. You know what I do? I work to make money so I can pay other people to do things. That's why... I have a job. No, it is... Ridiculous.
Vic00:10:57You know, while I'm at it, why don't I do a barn raising like in Witness? But also... Why don't you do a barn raising?
Sonny00:11:00Focusing the front of the mind... Also, I don't buy an $800 grill. I buy a $200 grill so I can spend the $80 on shipping and assembling.
Vic00:11:09As you know, I didn't. I didn't. So I feel like I saved myself $700.
Sonny00:11:13I feel like I'm surrounded by insane people. I don't understand. I honestly don't understand.
JVL00:11:17You focus the front of your mind on a mundane task so that the rest of your mind can float free and find zen. This is why people do mind. These mundane tasks with their hands.
Vic00:11:27I'm just going to get charcoal. Anyway. Okay, listeners, if you have an opinion on gas grill, dial in 1-800- Okay, JVL. Wait, so wait.
Sonny00:11:34We should note that you were getting a gas grill, not a charcoal. I was getting a gas grill. Not a garbage charcoal grill. No, no. I was getting gas because that's what I like.
Vic00:11:41You want to taste the meat, not the heat. Yes. And evenness. Evenness. Okay. So much better. JVL. Welcome back. Hey, boys. Hi, JVL. Where have you been? You went on sabbatical.
JVL00:11:54You went away. I went on a hiatus. I went on my runespring.
Vic00:11:58So you just let Warren use my headphones? I was under the impression that he said that you said it was okay for him to do that.
JVL00:12:06I did. Okay, I'm sorry. Vic, we've known each other for 20 years, and you would buy the story that I said it was fine?
Vic00:12:12That's why I was surprised, and then he brought him into the men's room, too.
Sonny00:12:14I just want to be honest with you. I actually told Mike that he should use your headphones. I didn't tell you this downstairs because I wanted to spring it on you right now. Disgusting. And I said-
JVL00:12:25And I knew the minute I pulled the box off the shelf, because I arrange everything in my office precisely so, so that if anything is disturbed when I'm not there, I know it. I take full inventory. Do you put a little hair, like Batman, do you put a little hair in the drawer to make sure if anything's- Yes. So yeah, it happened, and you're wearing him on your ears now. And it's disgusting. I can feel his oils. Oh, Mike Warren oil?
Vic00:12:47He doesn't look like he sweats a lot. It's not like he has a lot of hair or anything.
JVL00:12:53I have to throw these away now.
Vic00:12:56You have to burn them? You have to burn them. So, yes, that happened in your absence.
JVL00:13:02I can't believe you guys broke kayfabe on this, too. I was ready for a full wrestling. I was trying to figure out what it was like with me coming back, if it was Kevin Nash going back to the WCW, or if it was the NWO Wolfpack thing.
Sonny00:13:17Well, we had actually thought about having another guest host. We wanted to have another guest host and just like- Act like it was just like we were going to have a new one every week, but then we got real lazy, and Mike had also seen the trip movies.
JVL00:13:31Like Marta, on Arrested Development. Yeah, I guess.
Vic00:13:34Oh, I remember that. Yeah, that's right. They switched her, too, and Roseanne's daughter in Roseanne. I was thinking- Of course, Mad Men.
Sonny00:13:41Mine was Bobby Draper, Mad Men.
Vic00:13:43That was like four or five.
JVL00:13:44No, but it was meant to be a joke on Arrested Development. Oh, that's good. It was done as a funny thing, because nothing in Arrested Development happens by accident.
Sonny00:13:52They changed Marta, the actress. They swapped the actress out.
Vic00:13:56They did.
Sonny00:13:57I always wondered about that. I never even noticed. It's funny.
Vic00:14:00It gets better and better. Okay, so you were gone. Where did you go? Down to the beach. Nice. Down to the beach for a couple weeks. Wow, a couple weeks. Have you ever taken a couple weeks vacation at the Beacon?
Sonny00:14:10You know, on the one hand, I've got a guy ordering billion dollar grills on my right. On my left, I've got the guy taking multi-week vacations to the beach to just hang out. Guys. Ridiculous.
JVL00:14:23When you're a brand ambassador- You're always working. When I was out on the beach, out on the sand, repping with my Prana gear- Oh, my gosh. And my Shuffer Huffer hat and Shuffer Huffer sunglasses-
Vic00:14:37That must have been quite an image. Got a lot of looks, had a lot of conversations-
JVL00:14:42I'm sure you did. People down there in North Carolina who want to know what the hell Shuffer Huffer is. You got a pretty mouth.
Sonny00:14:49Well, I'm sure they were also confused as to why you were wearing the leather jeans into the surf while you were- while you were on your surfboard. I just- I would also be confused if I saw a guy on the beach wearing Prada jeans.
JVL00:15:00It's quite a visual. I think I moved a lot of product.
Sonny00:15:04I'll be honest. Sold a lot of Shuffer Huffers?
JVL00:15:07Sold a lot of Shuffer- My one disappointment with this place, because it is heaven, this place we go, is that the local grocery store sells a competing brand- Of Shuffer Huffer? Of the Shuffer Huffer. Yes.
Vic00:15:21I believe it's called Sunkist.
JVL00:15:23Because they're a potential- Sponsor.
Sonny00:15:26Tazo.
JVL00:15:26I don't want to say the name of this company and their product, but I will say that in a moment of weakness, I bought a six-pack to give it a try, and it tasted like unicorn piss. But it was from a unicorn.
Sonny00:15:40So kind of like regular Shuffer Huffer?
JVL00:15:43It was not good. It was not good.
Vic00:15:46Sweet, yet intriguing. Disturbing, yet intriguing is what you were saying.
JVL00:15:49You drank it, and then you wanted more. I got a new surfboard, which was great. It's body- Not a surfboard, but it's close enough. And if you're interested, Sonny, I'll tell you, it was crazy expensive.
Sonny00:16:03No. No.
JVL00:16:04Crazy expensive. I just assume you guys are- Because you always want to know, how much money was that, Jonathan? I assume you guys are just driving around. How could you spend that much money on that thing?
Sonny00:16:13This is what I live with. I assume you guys actually both own Teslas and just aren't telling me, because you know that I would ask you how much you spent on them.
Vic00:16:21My grill was the same as Jonathan. I think he bought Fantastic Four. Fantastic Four, number one, as the same price. Sorry.
JVL00:16:27This board is so awesome. I can't even tell you. I was ripping it in this thing. Have you ever- Sonny, do you ever do a lot of bodyboarding?
Sonny00:16:38Oh, yeah.
JVL00:16:38When you go to the beach? Oh, yeah. Here's my question. Real question, Sonny. Yeah. I know how you feel about sand. Yeah. It's coarse, and it gets everywhere. Is the ocean worse than the sand itself? Because the ocean has fish excrement and- God knows what else floating around in it, in addition to sand in the ocean. No, no, I don't- So, which is worse to you?
Sonny00:17:00I don't mind the ocean. The ocean is fine. The ocean is, I don't like going into water. So, it's like, but it's like the difference between the ocean and a pool is negligible to me, frankly. The problem is you have to trek through all that sand to get there, and then you come out of the water, and you're wet, so the sand sticks to you, and you're like a filthy hobo for the rest of the day.
JVL00:17:23So, you're like the Miami beaches where they have the- The big blue plastic carpets to walk you all the way from the pavement out to the water so you don't have to touch sand.
Sonny00:17:31Once again, you seem to have totally misunderstood anything that I would enjoy doing, and why would I ever go to Miami? Hot and humid, sand everywhere, disgusting clubs, awful people- You have to go outside to get there, too. The only place- This is a true- So, for my honeymoon, we went to Aruba, and I really loved Aruba because they had a pool right next to the beach, so I could kind of look at the water. I could hear it, but I could just sit next to the pool and not get sand all over my body. It was a million times better, but also, I would not go into the pool. I would just sit next to the pool, and I would read my Kindle that was stocked full of excellent new content.
Vic00:18:12Wow.
Sonny00:18:13That is how I spent my honeymoon. It was great.
Vic00:18:14If I'm at a hotel on a beach, I'm not going to the pool. I'm going to the beach. Why?
Sonny00:18:19I love beach. Why? I love sand. I don't like dirt, but I like sand. I don't understand how people roll-
Vic00:18:25I mean, literally, this is literally just rolling around in dirt. But JV and I are from New Jersey, so we're sort of Jersey Shore oriented. Yeah, you're trash. You're trash people.
JVL00:18:35No, no, we're like, we're ironborn, Sonny. We're like from the Iron Islands. Exactly, you're trash.
Vic00:18:40So, Vic, I'll ask you then.
JVL00:18:42Yes, JVL.
Vic00:18:43You've done a little bit of bodyboarding in your time, right? No.
JVL00:18:46You never got the Maury boogie board back when you were like 10 and it was a big deal?
Vic00:18:50I might have- From Wham-O. From Wham-O, no, no. I might have ridden a boat. I might have ridden a banana boat, but- You ever see those things on the beach? Sorry. Just kidding.
JVL00:19:00That's a club in Miami, too.
Vic00:19:01What is a banana boat? It's up there with the manhole. Okay, I'm sorry. I don't think that needs to be. That's a Robin Williams joke. Go ahead.
JVL00:19:10No, I was going to tell you about the difference between your normal, you know, surf shop bodyboard and this thing that I bought. The Wave Skater. Wave Skater. Tremendous brand. Might be an ambassador.
Sonny00:19:25I could say, Sonny, all right?
JVL00:19:27Sonny's now banging his forehead into the microphone. The dirty, foamy microphone. I like to remind you.
Sonny00:19:32I signed up for a pop culture podcast, not a faux outdoorsman nonsense podcast.
JVL00:19:37I was going to tell you the difference between my board and the normal stuff, but no. Please, go ahead. No, go ahead.
Sonny00:19:42Go for it. No, let's- I'm actually very- Unless you beg for it. You know what I want to know about? I want to know how the water glides off the surface, so you get frictionless motion through the water, I guess. I don't know how. Do the body boards work? Does it have a fin on the bottom, like on Point Break, you know, with the surfboard? This is what I want to know. How do you not sink when you're on the body board? Doesn't it- Don't you just go to the bottom of the ocean like a stone? Isn't that how water works? So there was only one-
JVL00:20:13Even with Jonathan's weight, I think it holds up. There was only one blot on my trip. My Little Island has a single four-screen movie theater. Built circa, like, 1976, and unrenovated since then. The golden age of cinema, yes. They have four screens, and when I got there, Wonder Woman was showing on one of them, and then midway through the trip, they replaced it with Spider-Man. Spider-Man Homecoming?
Sonny00:20:40They replaced Wonder Woman- They replaced Wonder Woman with Spider-Man? Well, that's- Yup. That is patriarchy right there.
JVL00:20:46And I went and I asked the manager exactly what the hell he thought he was doing, and he explained to me that he just doesn't like making money, and he thought that the young girls on the island- were getting too uppity about being scientists and computer programmers. Oh, boy. Here we go. And that's why he changed it out. And you know what? Look, I don't want to get into this. I don't want to get political, but I had a great time on my vacation, except for that incident. And I'll just leave it at that. So, I had a serious conversation that I wanted to have with you boys. Mm-hmm. About ice cream.
Vic00:21:15Oh. Okay.
JVL00:21:16Well, now.
Sonny00:21:16Yeah, now you got my interest.
JVL00:21:19How do you consume your ice cream content? Are we talking about ice cream or frozen cups?
Vic00:21:25Custard.
Sonny00:21:25Ice cream only. So, do you mean like cone or bowl? Yes. Or sprinkles? Cone or cup. Mm-hmm. So, it depends. If I can get a good waffle cone. Oh, yeah. And I have time to just like sit there and really luxuriate with my ice cream content.
JVL00:21:43Like the lollipop girls on The Gong Show. Well, no. The lollipop twins. Was that? That was one of our racier episodes. Yes. Is that how you consume your waffle cones, Sonny?
Sonny00:21:55A good waffle cone with, yes. Oh, my God. He's making faces into the... Oh, that's quite a face. That's disgusting.
JVL00:22:00The Facebook live of this is going to be great. Yes. Okay.
Vic00:22:04Sonny, so you will go for waffle if it's available.
Sonny00:22:07But usually, honestly, usually I just get a bowl. A cup. Yeah, a cup. But you will do the cone. But I can't. I have been known to get... Sugar cone. Again, just the waffle cone, not the sugar cone. The problem with the sugar cone is that it like sits on top and it's all over the edges and it starts melting and stuff. With the waffle cone, you've got like a nice little cup and it kind of pulls. It pulls down in the bottom. It doesn't spill over the side.
Vic00:22:27What I do with the sugar cone is I force the ice cream into the cone with my... You just get it all the way into the back of your throat? No. Without gagging? No, I force it down the cone with my tongue. Oh. That's how powerful my tongue is. I just push it down so that, you know, I've got ice cream down to the last tip.
JVL00:22:44Okay. Why, JV? Why do you ask? Yes. You people are f***ing savages. 2205.
Vic00:22:52You've got to bleep it yourself.
JVL00:22:55I had on my trip, for the first time in 20 years, 20 years, ice cream in a cone. Yeah. Because as a child, I was sort of traumatized by having ice cream in cones because it gets everywhere. It just, it drips. You can't even enjoy the ice cream because you're in a constant battle to keep your hands clean. Yeah. And I, when I found out that you could get ice cream, I remember this very vividly as a kid, finding out that you could get ice cream in a cone. That you could get it in a cup. And being like, no, I'll take it in a cup. Don't give me the cone anymore. And, and so I decided to, you know, look, maybe this is one of those things when I was small and Christmas trees were tall and this is just a weird childhood. Now, the psychologists have a term for this, sort of, you know, weird memories that get warped in your head. It's called a JVL. A JVLism. I believe it's called. A JVLism. Schizophrenia. Yes. And so I went and got a cone to see if I was all wrong about it. And it was the most horrifying experience. It was, it's disgusting. People who eat ice cream out of cones are untermensch. It's, it's horrifying. You might have to bleep that one out too.
Vic00:24:04Why, it was, was it just melting all over the place? Yes.
JVL00:24:08It's dripping.
Vic00:24:10Let me ask you, let me ask you, are you three? Can you not control it? That, that, that it's, I have it on ice cream in a cone and it doesn't melt like that.
JVL00:24:19It's the only thing I could, the only thing I was paying attention to was trying to control it and keep it from getting all over my fingers. What? You can't get your fingers rolled down your forearm. Well, you know what? You should wear a bib.
Vic00:24:29At this rate, you should just wear a bib because I, this is a bad sign for you that if you can't control your ice cream in a cone.
Sonny00:24:35I'm, I'm, I'm going to split the difference in here and say that I actually totally understand where JBL is coming from. This is, again, why I don't ever get sugar cones because they are, they're disgusting. This was a sugar cone. I am very efficient and strategic with my ice cream. The waffle cone is much better. Again, the waffle cone is like.
JVL00:24:50Well, in 20 years, I'll try one with a waffle cone. The waffle cone is like. Oh, this is a great demonstration here.
Sonny00:24:54The waffle cone is like. This, you see, so it, like, it, and it, for viewers at home, I've, I've. That is a great waffle cone. And so, and so what happens is the ice cream goes in the cone here, but it doesn't come out the side. You see, it's like this. It's like, so it's all right here. It's like a basket. It's like a little basket for your, for your ice cream. So that is, I think, when I, I hope everybody could hear that because I was kind of not talking into the mic, but like the, the, the waffle cone keeps it from dripping all over your hand. It's, it's the superior cone by far.
Vic00:25:22Okay.
JVL00:25:23Like you said, I'll try it in 20 years. Um, but in the meantime, I was horrified by this and my wife, who was just having the greatest time making fun of me for all this. So that. Yeah. Shannon is the best. She really is. She should be making fun of you. She says that she goes to a place where they sell ice cream as a kid, where they sold ice cream between two waffles, not waffle cones. Like, oh yeah. Like a waffle sandwich. Like an ice cream sandwich.
Sonny00:25:49It's, it, no, no, I won't do it. What flavor ice cream are you?
JVL00:25:54I couldn't even tell you a flavor I was eating because I was so fixated on stopping it from getting all over my fingers.
Vic00:26:01The fact that you are a 40-something and couldn't control the ice cream from coming down the sides of the cone?
Sonny00:26:06No, I, look, again, once again, this is a totally reasonable complaint.
Vic00:26:10I will show you how I do the ice cream.
Sonny00:26:12This is a totally, this is a totally reasonable complaint. It never melts. Can we also, I'm glad that you mentioned waffles. Can we just settle one thing really quickly? Okay. All right. I'm ranking them now. Oh my gosh. All right. Waffles. Waffles. French toast. Pancakes. Pancakes. Right? Is that, that's the definitive ranking of breakfast dessert foods, right? Pancakes being number one or number three? No, no. Pancakes being the worst. Waffles, number one. French toast, number two. I'd put pancakes further down, even. That depends on who's doing the pancakes. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just talking about easily made things in your home.
Vic00:26:43Some French toast is really good.
Sonny00:26:45Yeah.
JVL00:26:45I mean, people who, when you do French toast for real, it can be awesome. I, I'm open to swapping, we're talking your median waffle versus your median slab of French toast, then I agree. Okay. But, the best French toast, better than the best waffle.
Sonny00:27:01Well, that's probably true. That's probably true. But, also, you have to remember that the waffle.
JVL00:27:05And the best pancakes still number three.
Sonny00:27:07Yeah, best pancakes are, are still trash. The, the best thing about waffles is that they've got the little holes, and they catch all the syrup. So, you get a lot. You get the squares. You get, you get the holes. They are efficient.
Vic00:27:17The holes. Are we talking Belgian waffles or Eggo? Whatever. All waffles.
Sonny00:27:21I mean, all waffles. All waffles. Just waffles. Not all waffles.
JVL00:27:24But, they are efficient, they are efficient syrup delivery devices.
Sonny00:27:28And this is the thing about breakfast dessert foods, is that the only reason you're eating them is an excuse to consume butter and syrup. Syrup, yes. Okay. And maybe, like, some strawberries or something. Whatever you get on top.
JVL00:27:39Eating waffles is a smart choice. You know what else?
Sonny00:27:44Was it my?
JVL00:27:45Are we in the wrong part of the show? No, but, you know, we're so excited to be back, guys. This is so much fun. At 27 minutes in, we might as well. You do your read. I'm going to be over here with my ship.
Sonny00:27:54I'm signaling to the bullpen, we might need to bring Warren back. We might just warm him up. Warm him up. Can I say, before you go to the read. Yeah.
JVL00:28:02So, I listened to the show while I was down there. And for the first time, I understand why people like it.
Vic00:28:11It was really good. It's still a mystery to me. So, what is the why?
JVL00:28:16So, the problem for us is, so when I listen to the show now, typically it is the fourth time that I'm hearing it. When I, like, finally consume the final product, like, as a new person. Normal consumer in a car going someplace. And I, you know, I actually do not have a problem listening to the sound of my own voice. But we sit all here together. I'm glad that's one of us. Then I have to listen to it twice in the editing process. And then finally, the fourth time, it's just stale. But hearing it for the first time, you guys are really good. It was great. And Warren was fantastic. Frankly. He loosened up on the second episode. I am a little bit surprised that I came back at all. Because I thought this could be like the Bill O'Reilly thing. It's just a long time. Long planned vacation, folks. Nothing to say. We planned this vacation months ago. Yeah, once again. Once again, it just goes odd and odd.
Sonny00:29:01Well, once again, we looked at the numbers, and they were not good. People did not like Mike Warren.
Vic00:29:06The show is great. Oh, are you kidding? There are some people who loved Mike Warren. There were a few Mike Warren partisans. There have to be. It was great. Mostly they were just anti-JVL.
JVL00:29:16It was a superior product. I'm sorry. Continue your read.
Vic00:29:19Well, no. I was just going to say that the Dollar Shave Club is a smarter choice. You'll get a great shave at a great price. Immediately delivered right to your door. It's a no-brainer choice. You no longer have to schlep to the store to buy a cheap, disposable razor that gives you a cheap shave or spent a fortune on razors with gimmicky shaving tech you didn't need. When I use my Dollar Shave Club Executive Razor with their Dr. Carver's Shave Butter, the blade glides ever so gently and gives me such a smooth shave. Plus, their Dr. Carver's Shave Butter is transparent for a more precise shave, helps prevent ingrown hairs, and fights razor bumps. Now, listeners to The Substandard Podcast. can make the smarter choice by joining Dollar Shave Club. For a limited time, new members get their first month of the Executive Razor with a tube of their Dr. Carver's Shave Butter for only $5 with free shipping. After that, razors are just a few bucks a month. That's a $15 value for only five bucks. In your first month, you get an awesome weighty handle, a full cassette of four cartridges, and a tube of their Shave Butter. After your first month, replacement cartridges ship automatically at the regular price. There are no hidden fees and no commitments. So anytime you like, you can only get this offer exclusively at dollarshaveclub.com slash substandard. That's dollarshaveclub.com slash substandard. In fact, I just used my Dollar Shave Club razor and the Shave Butter this morning. On what? On my face, JVL. And the razor to the skin, it's just an amazing close encounter. Speaking of close encounters, over the weekend, Sony released the 40th anniversary of Close Encounters. That was on the spot. On the spot. I had a different... 4.5. Oh, out of 5, I hope. I had a different segue, but then you went on to ice cream, so that ruined it for me. Over the weekend, Sony released the 40th anniversary of Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I did.
Sonny00:31:13Yes, you did a great job. I called my friend Ben Dreyfuss. I was like, what's your dad, Richard Dreyfuss, up to? We're going to...
Vic00:31:19I hope Ben Dreyfuss listens to the show.
Sonny00:31:21I think he may have listened once.
Vic00:31:23He should listen. Not that it made a difference. Then in the weekend box office, I was going to say it was absolutely dismal, as we discussed three days ago. Yes, as we discussed on Tuesday. But, Sonny, you saw it recently in the theater?
Sonny00:31:35Yeah, I watched it in the theater. What did you think? You know, once again, this was one of these weird weekends where there was nothing new in the theater, so I had a choice between seeing Tulip Fever on Thursday night and writing about that and really celebrating the demise of Dane DeHaan's career, or seeing... I went with Close Encounters of the Third Kind on the big screen in a 40th anniversary re-release, and I went with Close Encounters. What did you choose? I went with Close Encounters, but the reason for this was because Tulip Fever literally was not playing Thursday night previews within 150 miles of D.C. They are burying this movie as hard as they can, or as deep as they can, and it's really sad what's happening over at the Weinsteins.
JVL00:32:22Anyway, Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
Sonny00:32:24I hadn't seen this movie in a few years, and I was excited to see it on the big screen. They played a 20-minute documentary preview thing before, which was interesting. A few episodes ago, I had asked, who actually goes to see these old movies and the Fathom events, whatever, and this isn't really a Fathom event thing. This is a straight-up re-release in multiple theaters, but it felt kind of the same. I want to say one- How was the print? I have a complaint about ... I was seeing it at the Dolby Cinema- Did you go to?
Vic00:32:54Vivek? Yes. I went on Sunday. I'm sorry.
Sonny00:32:58Did you go to the Georgetown AMC?
Vic00:33:00No. I went to the one in Ballston.
Sonny00:33:03I went to the Hoffman AMC here in the Virginia region, and I have to say, I was disappointed with the print. There were weird little flashes. I don't know if it was an issue with the projector or with the print itself, but it was a DCP.
JVL00:33:17The projectionists probably don't know how to use real film anymore.
Sonny00:33:19I mean, for God's sake, it's really ... I'm just going to stop going to these AMC. Dolby Theaters, because every time I go to one, I'm disappointed. The one in Georgetown is often bad. This one was not impressive. Did they mask it right? It was masked right. I think it was. I actually ... I'll be honest. I'm not ... I don't remember. I don't remember. Did you get the gourmet popcorn? You know, I did not get the gourmet popcorn. I actually, right before the closing counter screening, I watched Dunkirk again, which is so good. It's just really ...
JVL00:33:49But it has nothing about Churchill in it.
Sonny00:33:51Yeah, nothing about Churchill in it. Well, that's what you got the darkest hour for. Yeah. Okay, go ahead. Anyway, so Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Loved it. I really continue to be kind of stunned by the fact that this movie came out the same year as Star Wars. It's amazing. And am slightly saddened by the fact that Star Wars has become like a kind of self-perpetuating business, whereas Close Encounters of the Third Kind is just remembered as like, eh, that other Steven Spielberg 1970s movie.
Vic00:34:22Although there was a Close Encounters board game. I don't know if any of our listeners remember that. What?
Sonny00:34:27Yeah, look into that. It is, and it's weird that this movie became a, like, giantly commercially successful film. Like, thinking about that movie today being released, you know, we had Arrival last year, which I thought was a great movie, and it's like kind of a hard sci-fi.
Vic00:34:45Speaking of which, Denis Villeneuve, the director, is also featured in that. Yes, right.
Sonny00:34:48In the preview, he talks about how the movie is basically like a director making, making a movie about directing a movie. But, you know, you look at a movie like Arrival, which is kind of a hard sci-fi, interesting film about language and ideas and what it means to be, you know, contacted by people from another world, and that movie made $100 million, barely. It's, like, scratched and clawed its way to $100 million. Close Encounters of the Third Kind made what, in today's dollars, would be half a billion dollars. I mean, like, it is, like, the idea of this, what is, again, it's not an art house film, exactly, but compared to the kind of sci-fi extravaganzas we have today, it is, I mean, it's a little bit slower, it's a little bit more discursive, and it kind of goes all around the world, and it doesn't just, like, lay out the story beat by beat by beat. It is very, you know, it's a movie you kind of have to work at just a little bit, just a little bit, to get to the good stuff, and, you know, you could not, at least that movie today, and have the same level of success. You just couldn't do it.
Vic00:35:57The enthusiasm wouldn't be there.
Sonny00:36:00And Star Wars is the reason why. Star Wars is, like, again, when you compare these movies back to back, when you, like, sit down and watch one and watch the other, one is just so much faster, so much more exciting, so much bigger special effects, story goes bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. Hey, you just, we live in a different world now.
JVL00:36:18JVL. I mean, there are a bunch of reasons why that is, but I'm distracted by the close-up. Close Encounters, the board game board, which I'm going to flip around and show you guys.
Sonny00:36:27I believe Devil's Tower is the highlight of it.
JVL00:36:30So it is a board just full of squares with numbers in them.
Vic00:36:35Does this look like a ball of excitement or what?
JVL00:36:38I don't even, how does that work? It's literally just a bunch of squares with numbers, like 150 of them or something like that. Not the golden age of board game design. No, no, apparently not. The late 70s. Part of it is just the genre, right? Sci-fi was a, it was not a new genre in the late 70s, but it was being taken to new and exciting places, which was interesting to audiences. And people don't really, sci-fi is a dead genre. I mean, today, right? I mean, sci-fi is not, Star Wars is not a sci-fi saga anymore. It is just a Star Wars saga. It's just an action film. Right, doing science fiction is hard to do today.
Sonny00:37:19Star Wars has always also been science fantasy, right? Like, this is like, it's never been. It's more like a western or a space opera than anything else.
JVL00:37:27And for all we know, 20 years from now, 30 years from now, people will talk about modern comic book, our era comic book movies the way we are talking about now. It will be very difficult to get a superhero X movie to $100 million. And people will say, can you believe that they were able to get Doctor Strange to $130 million back 30 years ago or something like that? Because now that genre is new and fresh. It's vigorous in its own way.
Sonny00:37:56Well, I mean, as we were discussing on Tuesday, like the idea of, you know, box, I really do think we are in the start of the kind of death spiral of Hollywood that like you have, you have this, you have a series of escalatingly bad summers and eventually you end up in a real distribution pickle where you, you, you are trying to get movies directly to people instead of in the theaters and they just don't go anymore. I think things are about to get much, much worse.
JVL00:38:26What? Yeah. Well, the good news is Hollywood is such a lean and efficient production engine that there's no fat to trim on it. And so they'll, they'll figure out their way out of this because that is an industry that is just single minded and, and just firing on all cylinders. I have faith in those guys out there.
Vic00:38:48I've got good news and bad news. I believe Gene Shalit saw Close Encounters. But the bad news is, I suspect he actually hasn't seen it since November 1977. So that if he gave the review, it might be kind of, I'm betting he recycles. If you want to hear it, I don't know. It's up to you.
JVL00:39:08Come on, Gene. All right. I've been away for so long.
Vic00:39:11Let's make room for Gene. A new and fresh review. Sorry I'm late. Those gas lines are killer. But I'm pretty sure we'll solve our energy crisis soon. Thanks to our new, President Jimmy Carter. Anyway, Close Encounters of the Third Kind is one of the best films of the year. I put it right up there with Capricorn One and Disney's The Rescuers. And unlike Star Wars, this movie doesn't take place in a galaxy far, far away. It's about an alien encounter right here in America. Now, the aliens are about the size of that little guy in that new TV show on ABC, Fantasy Island. Richard Dreyfuss gives a, Stellar performance. Move over, Duddy Kravitz. And Francois Truffaut is magnifique. Talk about a French connection. Watching all the special effects, my eyes were like saucers. Flying saucers. I give Close Encounters four stars. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got a Close Encounter of my own, with a turkey. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. That's the Critics' Corner. Duddy Kravitz.
Sonny00:40:28I don't... Who is Duddy...
Vic00:40:30John Podhoretz. If he's listening, he'll get the Duddy Kravitz.
Sonny00:40:33That's before my time, I guess.
Vic00:40:3577. That was him in his high... Him and Brian Gumbel, probably. One of the interesting things from the special, before they showed the movie, the interviews...
Sonny00:40:45The little documentary.
Vic00:40:46Was Spielberg talking about John Williams. Yeah. Because he said he didn't know if Williams would have had enough, in his words, any gas left in the tank, because he had just done the music for Star Wars. And you forget that... So I think Star Wars was, what, summer? 77? Yeah, a few months before. And then Close Encounters was November, but he really pulls it off. Yeah. But what I... So that's impressive. But, you know, the first time I saw Close Encounters as a kid was, like, on HBO. And, of course. But I didn't like it. And what I remembered was watching the family fall apart. And that's the part that... That's the only part that really stuck. That stuck with me. And there's a scene where Richard Dreyfuss is piling on the mashed potatoes, and the kid starts crying. He starts tearing up. And I was just like, this is terrible.
Sonny00:41:34I remember... So, again, I hadn't seen it for a few years. I hadn't seen it since before I had had my child. And I, like, I remember that scene and thinking it was, like, kind of cute and funny. And then I watch it, and I'm like, oh, God, that's really depressing. Like, this is, like... There are things that are cute and funny about the way Richard Dreyfuss plays that character in Terry Garr. Yeah, Terry Garr. Like, the scene in the hearing room where they're talking about the UFOs, right? And then the old man is like, I saw Bigfoot. That's what killed the credibility. And Terry Garr is, like, laughing into her hand, and Richard Dreyfuss has his... He's, like, he's literally facepalming, and, like, that stuff is very funny. And even, like, the fight, right? Where she leaves with the kids, and he, like, hops up on the car. He's like, honey, where are you going? This is insane. And it's just, like, that is so funny, and, like, and he's, like, he, like, buckles his, you know, robe to go inside, and, like, hey, hey, Bob, as he's going back in the house. And, like, some of that stuff has the very Spielbergian touch of, like, humor in the midst of absurdity, and... But, yeah, the... I had kind of... It was definitely much more depressing. Yeah. Much more depressing watching the family fall apart.
Vic00:42:52And Richard Dreyfuss had a hilarious tweet about it. He talked about that a few years ago, didn't he? About the truth of... Yeah, well... What did he say?
Sonny00:42:58There's going to be a sequel where he comes back and has to explain to his family where he's been for the last 35 years. Yeah, exactly.
JVL00:43:07JVL. What? That stuff's not normal? That's not how all families are?
Sonny00:43:13JVL's just been imagining. I know.
JVL00:43:16You know, so I, being raised in a vaguely Taliban-ish training camp, I was not permitted to see Close Encounters. It first came out, despite the fact that I am dying to see it, because I was super into E.T. when E.T. came out, and so I thought, wow, these things are just... So I didn't see Close Encounters until I was maybe like 12 years old on VHS, and I had, in my mind's eye, turned it into... Because it was a sensation. I mean, people like you, Sonny, don't realize that Close Encounters ever was T-shirts, there's a board game, it was a big deal. I had turned it into something that it could not possibly live up to, and when I saw it, I saw it on VHS, on my 22-inch home screen. Very disappointing. I looked at it, and I just thought, I can't believe this is the thing everybody is going crazy about, because this is, yeah, Bolstein. You know, like, there's nothing in this. Bolstein? Well, I have to do one beep, I don't want to go and try to find another one. I have a lot of work to dig out of after being gone for three weeks.
Vic00:44:18Well, you know, you don't have to bleep that much. NYPD Blue started that, right? Yeah. I think that is Fran's start of that. So?
JVL00:44:25So, I never went back to it, and I have never had any interest in going back to it, because that, to me, sits as just one of those gigantic cinematic disappointments, which, again, I'm sure I'd feel differently today if I got to see it in a big theater on a real screen as a grown-up person, but I don't know.
Vic00:44:41I will tell you my favorite scenes in that movie are at the beginning. It's the recovery of Flight 19 in the Sonora Desert in Mexico.
Sonny00:44:49Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vic00:44:49If you listen to the music when they do this, when they're fighting and they're turning on the engines, it's... There's hints of Raiders of the Lost Ark in the music. It's not hints of Star Wars. It's hints of Raiders of the Lost Ark and the air traffic control scene, which they explained in that little preview before the movie. They used real air traffic control guys in the whole thing, and that was really intense.
Sonny00:45:09The overlapping dialogue, the way everybody's talking on top of each other. It was... I mean, it really is... It really is an impressive movie. You should actually watch it. Just for those seats.
Vic00:45:20You should watch it again. Just for those seats. Just for those seats. And then slowly moves towards and focuses on that one guy at his monitor, and people start turning around as they begin to realize this is what they think it is, because something is anomalous. And they all start turning over, and they're all looking over their shoulder.
Sonny00:45:38Do you want to register a UFO? And they're like, eh, I wouldn't know what to say. No, it's crazy.
Vic00:45:44That's a great scene. But that was really for me, the highlights. I'll do it. I'll order it up on Amazon. Get it on. I'll stream it, and then I'll watch it with my kids. Watch it on your phone. Yeah.
JVL00:45:54You should watch it on your phone. Oh, yeah, I'll do that. You should watch it on your phone while you're at the gym. At the gym, on the phone, over the course of three different workouts.
Sonny00:46:00I'm going to send David Lynch to your house.
Vic00:46:04JVL, do you remember the March Madness ad based on Close Encounters, where you know how Richard Dreyfuss gets obsessed with building Devil's Tower in the house, and he does the mashed potatoes, and they had it with Tubby Smith and Mike Krzyzewski, and they're all building- Yeah, the brackets, right? Yeah, no, they're building the Omni in Atlanta, I think. OmniKrzyzewski is where the Final Four was being held, and so they're building the stadium in the form of mashed potatoes, and then Tubby Smith has a giant mountain in his room. It's fantastic. If anybody out there finds that video, it's a fantastic commercial. That'd be pretty good in show notes, wouldn't it? If that's going to happen, I don't know. I've been unable to find it.
JVL00:46:41Okay.
Vic00:46:43Do we want to do a- Spielberg. Yeah, Spielberg ranking. Can we do Spielberg ranked?
JVL00:46:46Let's do Spielberg. At this hour, let's do Spielberg ranked. Yes. I mean, do we want to discuss Spielberg first, or just go to ranking? Go for it. Go for it. JVL? I don't know. Spielberg is, to me, the quintessential American movie maker of his generation, and it's sort of difficult to imagine American cinema today without him. I mean, he is the industry in a way that no other modern filmmaker is, and the only real analogs he probably has, like D.W. Griffith, something like that, right? I mean, I would say he is- He's a tremendously important figure.
Sonny00:47:20He is the definitive commercial American filmmaker. Filmmaker of the last 50 years. 40 years, I guess. 40 years. And I, like, if anything, I think he's actually weirdly underrated at this point. I think he is not appreciated- Totally agree. I think he is not appreciated for being what is, again, essentially the greatest commercial American filmmaker of our entire lives.
JVL00:47:47Totally agree. But, like, Jaws changed the industry, right? I mean, so before Jaws, they opened movies in different ways after Jaws. Jaws creates the wide release. It creates the summer tentpole. Everything we know about the movie industry we know today because of what Spielberg has done. And it's interesting that he has gone through periods where he becomes self-serious and does his handsome American filmmaking, but then he snaps himself out of it after a few years. He is always moving. He's always directing. He's had years where he's had two major movies out at the same time. He goes from project to project. With wildly uneven quality. Good Spielberg is the best that film gets. And bad Spielberg is bad. But in a way, I find that reassuring. He's not a Kubrick where everything is its own little masterpiece because he's making so many movies. He's a working director.
Vic00:48:47And I find that tremendously admirable. I've tried hard to like 1950s. I've tried 1941, and I still can't like 1941. It's hard. It's got a great cast, but I just...
Sonny00:48:58No, I mean, I was just running through his IMDB profile before we came here. And really, through five different decades, he has at least one four-star movie and sometimes several. I mean, in the 1970s, you have Jaws and Close Encounters. In the 1980s, you have Raiders of the Lost Ark and E.T. In the 1990s, you have Jurassic Park, Schindler's List in the same year, and also Saving Private Ryan. Saving Private Ryan's Minority Report in Munich. I know some people don't like Munich, or those people are wrong. And in the 2010s, you have Lincoln, which I actually did not appreciate at the time, and I rewatched recently, and is just an amazing piece of filmmaking, just like a perfect piece of historical cinema. And this doesn't even include Last Crusade, Temple of Doom, War of the Worlds, Empire of the Sun, Catch Me If You Can, or even the vastly underrated Hook. There is nobody else like this who has the same sort of longevity and also commercial success. You could talk about a Kubrick who made almost perfect films in four or five different decades, but he also only made 12 or 13 movies. It's hard to find anybody really to compare him to.
Vic00:50:17Do you have any strong feelings about, what's your gut feeling about Ready Player One? Big movie, bad movie? You keep trying to make me laugh. I keep on bringing it up. You keep trying to talk about Ready Player One.
Sonny00:50:26Disaster? Disaster. There's disaster written all over it. It could be a giant disaster. I mean, the problem is the source material is bad and nostalgic in a way that I think could play into some of Steven Spielberg's best and worst instincts. It could actually be brilliant. This is actually, I think it could be amazing. But I do think that there's a very real possibility that it's going to be a real-
JVL00:50:48So, I have an auteur question about Spielberg. Okay. It is undeniably true. It is undeniably true that in many Steven Spielberg movies, if you are dropped into the middle of the movie without knowing who the director is, you would say, oh, that must be Spielberg. So, if you knew nothing about anything, but you knew who Steven Spielberg was and I showed you Jurassic Park, you would say, Steven Spielberg directed this movie. That is not true for all of his films, though, is it?
Sonny00:51:14It's probably not true for the ones that we kind of forget about, right? Like, I don't know that it would be true for The Color Purple. I don't know that it would be true for-
JVL00:51:23Like, Bridge of Spies. I like Bridge of Spies a lot. I really like that movie. I don't- when I watch it, that does not jump out at me as this is a Spielbergian movie.
Sonny00:51:34No, and not in the same way that Lincoln does. Right. Which was made around the same time.
JVL00:51:40Again, this is not a criticism, but just unpacking him as an auteur, that he isn't even relying on a signature bit of tricks, right?
Vic00:51:47It used to be easy. It used to be easy, like, oh, because you're seeing from the mind of a child, from the mind of a child, then he obviously-
Sonny00:51:55Yeah, or like Empire of the Sun, or like, yeah, no, I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying, yeah.
JVL00:52:01Yeah, and even- so even The Lost World, which I think might be the worst Spielberg movie- Forget that he directed that. There is a shot in it, it's the crane shot when you see the Velociraptors coming through
Sonny00:52:15the tall grass from lots of different directions. That's great.
JVL00:52:17And you could watch that whole movie thinking, this movie is a pile of garbage, who directed this? And then when you see that shot, you go, oh. Oh, this is a Spielberg movie, because that shot is so masterfully constructed, and that chase scene is so tightly put together, you're like, okay, so Spielberg is doing this.
Vic00:52:32There's one better scene, there's one better scene than that JBL, and it's when Jeff Goldblum's daughter's on the uneven parallel gymnastics- Kicks the Velociraptor.
JVL00:52:40And kicks the Velociraptor. How does- You know, F equals MA, right? The fact- And so she weighs, we all know what 11-year-old girls weigh, right, about 82 pounds. Vic, why are you looking at me? Vic, does she need to be moving? Right. In order to knock an 1,100-pound Velociraptor off of its-
Sonny00:53:00I remember-
JVL00:53:01She's going 900 miles an hour.
Sonny00:53:02Yeah. I actually, I rewatched that movie recently as well, maybe a year ago, and all the way up until that scene, I was like, God, this is kind of, this is better than I remember it being. And then that scene- And then there's that scene, and then there's the Tyrannosaurus Rex running through- San Diego. San Diego.
JVL00:53:19And I was just like, ah, this really kind of falls apart. This has third act problems. Third act problems, yep. That's actually the, like, that scene, like, for my son, that's the highlight.
Vic00:53:28You go, oh, he's in the city, it's so crazy, you know?
JVL00:53:31Okay. We have enough time for our ranking, or no? We should each rank something different. Can I rank most underrated? Sure. Oh, sure. And you guys can do, like, best and worst? Yeah. No? Yeah. I'll do, well, okay. Go, go for it. Go. Three most underrated. One, Catch Me If You Can, which I just love the heck out of. I think it's a great movie. It's a great movie. That gets lost in the Spielberg. And for where everybody else is looking at, Save It Private, Ryan, and Schindler's List. Two, Bridge of Spies. Again, I really like the movie. And three, Minority Report, which is a great, great sci-fi movie with a fully realized and lived-in world with a fantastic Peter Stormare crazy thing in the middle. And Max von Sydow.
Vic00:54:14I hate to mention him because he's, you know, still alive. But I love Max von Sydow. I just saw him in the Game of Thrones. We gotta cut this. The Three-Eyed Raven.
JVL00:54:21We gotta cut this. Cut that part out. Okay.
Vic00:54:22I'll give you my... Six Favorite. How's that? Go for it. Okay. Six Favorite. Yeah. Because these are the six that I like. Okay. The other ones that you mentioned, by the way, I love them all, too. And Bridge of Spies. Yeah, these are just the ones that I think get lost. And Bridge of Spies. I like Mark Rylance. He was really good at that. That's great. Okay. Saving Private Ryan at six. Empire of the Sun. A young Christian Bale. But also, not just John Malkovich, but John Malkovich's sidekick, Joey Pants, is in that movie. Fantastic. Okay. Jurassic Park. That's from beginning to end. That's solid. Yeah, yeah. That's four. Okay. Three is Schindler's List. It's just amazing. Two is Jaws. And number one, AI, Artificial Intelligence. I approve. I approve.
JVL00:55:07I was kidding, Sonny. Raiders of the Lost Ark. I'll give you one scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark. Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Sonny00:55:13Did they change it now? Well, originally, the original title was just Indiana Jones, right? No, the original title was Raiders of the Lost Ark. Oh, it was Raiders of the Lost Ark. Right, right. They changed it, too. In the video store?
JVL00:55:22Right, right. Literally. When people alphabetized them in the video store, they would be next to each other.
Vic00:55:27That's why they changed it. That makes sense. I will give you one favorite scene from that movie, and then on to you, Sonny. And that is when Marion is out drinking Belloc, and they're drinking that stuff. And then she tries to escape, and then she runs into Tote, the interrogator. And so she's cowering with Belloc, and Tote takes out what looks like a tri-staff nunchuck. And then he turns it to—I was in the theater when I saw that. Because you're terrified, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. What is he going to do with that thing?
JVL00:55:59That horrible nunchuck.
Vic00:56:00And the whole theater just erupted in laughter. It was amazing.
Sonny00:56:04It was pretty much the only time that Steven Spielberg has ever humanized a Nazi. I mean, it's kind of a funny moment, right? He doesn't really treat the Nazis for laughs too often. And that, I would say, is probably one.
Vic00:56:19It was so weird.
Sonny00:56:19Okay, go ahead, Sonny. All right. I'm going to do most underrated decade. Oh. I'm going to do most underrated Steven Spielberg decade. And I think it's his 2000s. 2001, you have AI, Artificial Intelligence. 2002, you have Minority Report. 2002, still, you have Catch Me If You Can. 2004, The Terminal. Eh, it's okay. 2005, War of the Worlds. And 2005, again, Munich. So, basically, in a five-year period there, or I guess six years, 2000 to 2005—I'm sorry, yeah, five years, 2001 to 2005, you have— I would say at least two four-star movies and maybe three four-star movies. I'm not a huge Catch Me If You Can guy, but I appreciate there are a lot of guys out there who are. And I remember a few years back, people were talking about, oh, God, Steven Spielberg hasn't made a great movie since Saving Private Ryan. Those people are idiots. Those people are goddamn idiots. He has been—I would say he hasn't been as good as he was in the real meat of his career in the late 70s. early 80s, or even, again, in that, like, 90s run. But most filmmakers, 98% of filmmakers, would kill for Steven Spielberg's career from 2001 to 2005. Absolutely.
Vic00:57:35I would say also, like, I can understand how somebody becomes a doomsday prepper if you watch War of the Worlds. I could see becoming that because, I mean, really, you know, frightening, terrifying. Okay. Corrections. Additions. JVL, do you have any corrections from last week?
JVL00:57:53We had a couple things. Oh. What? Not corrections. Oh. First of all, I wanted to do show and tell, since today is the first day of school, otherwise known as the happiest day of the year. Why am I scared? Okay. My buddy, Jason O'Connell, sent me something in the mail today. Oh, my gosh. A coffee table book. The world's most expensive watches. Sonny, are you interested in it? Nope. It tells you the prices of all the things. I mean- And I know that's what you care about most.
Sonny00:58:29That's literally the only thing I care about when it comes to watches, because watches are ridiculous luxury items.
JVL00:58:34It's fantastic.
Vic00:58:36It's intriguing, actually. I'll even say that. It looks intriguing.
JVL00:58:39Listening to your, again, fantastic episode on Smash Mouth and whatnot. That was a Mike Warren catered episode. I wanted to give you three quick concert notes. Of my own. Oh, yes. Is that okay? I wondered about what would you have said. So, my single favorite- You've been to a concert? You know, I used to be cool, man.
Sonny00:59:04Wow. I'm going to get a correction on that one from Shannon. Shannon, when you get to this part of it, just DM me so I can correct this.
Vic00:59:14Get out for the next week's episode. Okay.
JVL00:59:16I was at a Primus show once upon a time with Les Claypool. Do you even know who Primus is? What Primus is? Who Les Claypool is? Sonny?
Sonny00:59:23Yeah, they do the theme for South Park.
JVL00:59:27Yes, that's right. And their front man is the bassist, Les Claypool, who is a tremendous bassist. He's so good at bass that he was able to create a star career for himself by playing the bass. And we were at a Primus show, and my buddy Chris- All these, I think, are Chris things, because Chris was a big concert guy.
Sonny00:59:49Wait, wait. So, your friend Chris is cool?
JVL00:59:52Oh, Chris is way cool. Okay. Yeah. That makes more sense. I'm like the remora fish swimming around in Chris's slipstream. Les Claypool says, this song is about a friend of mine. He took a belt, and he hung himself. I just launched into the song. I was like, wow. That was kind of cool. So, the single best concert experience I ever had was I saw Pearl Jam with Chris the summer that they broke big. And it was an early show. They were not even top billing. I think they were third billing. Even though, at that moment, they were the hottest band in the country. And it was kind of amazing to be at a show where both the audience and the guys on stage understood that this was the moment when they were catching the wave and going from just being a local grunge band into superstardom. And that was a weird experience. Like, that was, I mean, it was very strange. Do you remember the other acts? Soundgarden. No.
Sonny01:00:47Smashing Pumpkins and Nirvana?
JVL01:00:49Chili Peppers, I think, were the headliner because they were already established. Soundgarden was there, but was not, Soundgarden was still two years away from catching big. And it was, it was awesome. It was, it was really, it was just a cool environment. And the worst concert experience I've ever had was a Dave Matthews show. I am.
Vic01:01:09You're too old for that, my friend.
JVL01:01:11No, I like Dave Matthews a ton. I have tremendous amount of respect for him as a musician. I went to a show. And this is what I just hate about stoner culture. So he spent, as far as I could tell, like 30% of the show. In the wings of the stage, getting high. And coming out and making jokes about it. And so did the rest of the band. And the audience thought it was the greatest single thing ever. And I sat there, I just wanted to freaking see Dave Matthews play.
Sonny01:01:40You just wanted to hear ants marching.
JVL01:01:42No, like, oh, like I was a big Dave Matthews guy back in the day. Number 41. Satellite. Whatever. And so this is what, I was the only person at the concert not having a good time. And I sat there. You needed to smoke a doobie to have a good time. Why nobody else could see that this was preposterous, that this guy was not delivering the thing that he had promised, which was a musical concert.
Sonny01:02:03What you're saying is that you were at an event, and 99.999% of the people there were having a great time. And the problem was them. And they were the problem. Not you.
JVL01:02:15That makes sense. But this is what I hate stoner humor. Like, whenever I see stoner movies, I never find there's not a single joke that lands for me. I hate it being there with all this. What about, dude, where's my car?
Vic01:02:25Yeah, exactly. I would say, you know what? I'd say, stop smoking those drugs unless you want to share them. That's what I would say. Pass the doobies.
Sonny01:02:34The idea of Vic's... See, the problem with Vic...
JVL01:02:38Dad, what are you doing?
Sonny01:02:39I just imagine Vic with, like, the younger employees at the Free Beacon right now being like, guys, puff, puff, pass. And it's the worst thing that I've ever imagined in my head.
Vic01:02:49You just horrified me. I'm scared straight. Okay. We were at...
JVL01:02:55No, it was in Vic's office. We had some younger employees once upon a time, two younger gals who were about 23, and they were in Vic's office. I'm getting scared.
Sonny01:03:05No, this is hysterical. When was this?
JVL01:03:07This was about 10 years ago. And they were... Literally, it was like a Monday afternoon, like, hey, how's everybody's weekend? And these two girls were like, oh, it was skeezy. We were at this club, and there was this old guy who was there who was hitting on us. And Vic is laughing, and I'm laughing. He's telling us the whole story about it, and it's a really, really funny story about they're nagging him, and Vic says to him, so how old was he? And the girl goes, I don't know, like, your age. I almost died laughing. That's the best thing I've ever heard.
Vic01:03:38I immediately hid my bouquet of flowers that I was going to give them. Okay.
JVL01:03:43Because you could tell that in Vic's mind picture of the story, the old guy is like 79 or something.
Vic01:03:51I'm picturing... The guy who's the object of the fun.
Sonny01:03:55So basically, he's now my age. Is that right? Is that...
JVL01:03:58Yeah. Yeah.
Vic01:04:00Which is totally cool, by the way.
Sonny01:04:01I don't think that's old at all.
Vic01:04:03Or in your 40s.
Sonny01:04:04I'm going to Chili's.
Vic01:04:06Okay. I'm going to Home Depot and not get a grill. Spirit of the Week is Maker's Mark. Always good. Part of the Jim Beam family. It was always top shelf, and then everybody started drinking it. So it's still top shelf, but everybody's drinking it. So props to them.
Sonny01:04:26It is actually an appropriately priced bourbon at this point. It used to be too expensive.
Vic01:04:29Now it's actually the right price, because everything else is too expensive. They used to be the top selling in terms of price, and then they became the top selling in terms of volume. It's like the best of both worlds.
Sonny01:04:37Well, remember when they tried to change the formula, so it was like a lower... They had tried, because there was a scarcity issue. Okay.
Vic01:04:44That is all the time we are giving to this episode. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments, tweet us at Victorino Matus, at Sonny Bunch. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on...
Sonny01:04:55And at JV Last. I forgot. I forgot I have to chime in here, because he's been gone for so long. Yeah. For so many, many, many years now.
Vic01:05:02And do send at Michael R. Warren a note, you know?
Sonny01:05:05Tell him he's not missed. Tell him he's not missed.
Vic01:05:08Maybe we'll see him in another year. Subscribe to us on iTunes, or Google Play, or Stitcher. Just type in Substandard at a podcast. We're there. Leave a review. Tell your friends. Don't forget, Substandard show notes just might be up on Friday at 11 a.m. Until next time.
?01:05:23Bye.
Vic01:05:53What's a Benny? The New Yorkers. How about... What is he? I'm not sure, but I do know Shoebies. You know what the Shoebies are? No. The Shoebies are the Philly people. Philly people would come down with her. They called them Shoebies because they brought their lunches in shoeboxes or something like that. No. Yeah. I never knew that. That's just fascinating. Is it?
JVL01:06:11See, I always thought that Benny's was just out-of-towners. I didn't realize it was specific to New Yorkers coming to the Jersey Shore.
?01:06:19Wow.
JVL01:06:20You're not going to be up there? Because that would be kind of awesome. The single best surprise of my beach weekend, or my beach two weeks, was that our friends, Catherine and Christian, were down there staying on the same island as us. Oh, that's nice. How are they doing? They're great, and we got to all go out to ice cream together, and our kids played together.
Sonny01:06:38Wait, is this where you had the ice cream cone? The one that melted all over you without the bib?
Vic01:06:45Were they there for that?
JVL01:06:47I mean, we went out to ice cream every night, so I can't remember if they ... No, I think they were there. Yes. Yes. Yes. Now that I'm thinking about it, this was ... This was the night Catherine and Christian were there.
Sonny01:06:54Catherine and Christian need to chime in with the ... You know who you are. You need to chime in and let us know how disgusted JVL was with his ice cream cone.
JVL01:07:02I'm not kidding. I was twitching. I'm sure it's not fine.
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