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#11. A Farewell to Malls
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Dudes Chatting — The death of the American mall: Prompted by The Limited closing all 250 stores (joining Aeropostale, Pacific Sun, American Apparel, and Wet Seal in collapse, with Macy's and Sears closing hundreds of locations), JVL and Vic mourn the mall era with rich nostalgia. JVL spent his Saturdays ages 13–17 at the mall — KB Toys, arcades, Great American Cookie Company, Tower Records, the movie theater, including a first date during The Princess Bride. Vic recalls Spencer's Gifts, Camelot Records, Hickory Farms, and arcade games (Time Pilot, Frontline). Sonny was never a mall rat, preferring outdoor strip centers with Best Buy; his only memorable mall movie was Dogma at the Fredericksburg Mall. Extended tangent on arcade culture, laserdisc games (Dragon's Lair, Cliffhanger), and the X-Men, TMNT, and Simpsons arcade cabinets. Second segment covers the death of Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka and WWE/WWF nostalgia: Roddy Piper's Pit, Lex Luger, Miss Elizabeth, and JVL's lifelong love of professional wrestling. Episode includes an Audible sponsorship read. JVL closes with a Shannon Doherty story from the White House Correspondents Dinner (Mallrats connection). Corrections included. Spirit of the Week: Woodford Reserve.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00Hi, this is Bill Kristol. Now that Barack Obama's finally gone, can we get rid of one more thing? The Substandard podcast?
Vic00:00:14This edition of TheSubstandard is brought to you by Audible.
Guest00:00:19The Cookie Stand is not part of the food court. Of course it is. The food court is downstairs. The Cookie Stand is upstairs. It's not like we're talking quantum physics here. The Cookie Stand counts as an eatery. The eatery's a part of the food court. Bullsh*t. Eateries that operate within the designated square downstairs qualify as food court. Anything outside of said designated square is considered an autonomous unit for mid-mall snacking. Now, if you're gonna wax intellectual about the subject... Holy sh*t. I'll be the new champion of the WW... And whatcha gonna do when Hulkamania and the largest arms in the world destroy you?
?00:00:58Subtitles by the Amara.org community
Vic00:01:04Hello, and welcome back to The Substandard. I'm Victor Matus along with Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. I'd like to remind you all that The Substandard is available on iTunes and Google Play. Just look at our podcast and search for Substandard. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe. Tell your friends. Leave a review. Many of you have, and we are grateful. In fact, one recent reviewer named L. Ryeth Zuul, who calls us... "The only podcast that makes for better listening while running than '90s power ballads." How do you like that?
Sonny00:01:35That sounds accurate. I am definitely more pleasing to listen to than... I don't even know. Would that be like Whitney Houston? What constitutes like '90s power ballads?
Vic00:01:45I was going to say like Cake, Going the Distance. How is that a power ballad?
Sonny00:01:50That's just a song from the '90s. You know what I listen to?
Vic00:01:54I like personally...
Sonny00:01:55Like Meatloaf. I think like Meatloaf. I won't go there. That's not '90s. That's definitely '90s. No, the... I won't do that. I would do anything for love, but that is definitely '91 or '92. I'll effort that. You guys talk.
Vic00:02:08I personally like to run to You're the Best Around from The Karate Kid by Joe Bean Esposito.
Sonny00:02:15I like to think of myself as Billy Zabka in that movie.
Vic00:02:19You are very much that way. You're definitely a Cobra Kai.
Sonny00:02:22I would 100% be a Cobra Kai. But I'd be like one of the sniveling Cobra Kais. The, like, "Yeah, do it, Johnny! Yeah!" That's me. Put him in a body bag!
Guest00:02:32Put him in a body bag!
Vic00:02:34The one who apologizes after the... I would never apologize.
JVL00:02:38"I'm sorry, I'm sorry!" Remember he says that?
Sonny00:02:40Well, yeah, or he, like, sweeps the leg.
JVL00:02:42Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Sonny00:02:43He's like, "I'm sorry, Johnny!" I would never apologize.
JVL00:02:461993. There you go. You were wrong. And Sonny Bunch was right.
Sonny00:02:51Everyone on this show tries to correct me. They're like, "That's not from that year. That's not that..." And I'm always right.
Vic00:02:57Yes, I had a feeling I was going to challenge you on that one. Also, I'd like to point out, with the last episode, we hit a true... I don't know if you noticed this, guys, but we had passed a real milestone: 10 episodes! Woo! Ta-da!
Sonny00:03:12No chance we make it to 11. Can we put a Chromium cover on this episode to really... We're going to have a variant edition of this episode.
Vic00:03:20You know what, I didn't tell you this, Sonny. I forgot to tell you this. The Criterion Collection is going to put the first 10 episodes... Excellent. ...as part of their special...
Sonny00:03:29Are we going to do an audio commentary for our podcast? Yes! That would be... I really think that would... No, Zack Snyder's doing it.
JVL00:03:36That would be... Zack Snyder's going to do a commentary on our podcast. Holy . That would be awesome. I know, right? Hey, mark that down.
Vic00:03:42You've got to bleep that. No, I think that's okay. People say that on TV. Can you? Yeah, TV. Really? Yeah, they do. Do they say it on Netflix? Mad Men. Mad Men. That's allowed. Okay, so how are we, gentlemen? Jonathan, how are you? How was your weekend? Tell me about it.
JVL00:03:57What's going on? It was so great. I'm wearing a brand new pair of socks today, which just makes everything better. And I got a little email from the fine people at the United Parcel Service telling me that they just dropped off a couple more pairs of Prana jeans at my house out in the wilds of Virginia, which I got on the Prana garage sale. So just awesome. I'm really, really psyched. I can't wait to wear these new jeans.
Sonny00:04:23They're great. Are these like the leather ones? Right from the Italian factory? From the Prana factory? Do they match? These are the ones for people who go outdoors. Do they match your purse?
JVL00:04:33Are they ... These are the ones for people who actually go outside and go up mountains and do things with their bodies in the outdoors where there is non-climate controlled air.
Vic00:04:40Does Prana share your email with other people subscribing? You get annoying emails now from Playtex and places like that?
Sonny00:04:47Or Gucci? Do you get the emails from Gucci? When's the last time either of you were outside? Why would I ever experience the outdoors? I don't like the outside. I get scared of the outside. You don't seem to understand that the outdoors is where you go to die. You go and you die there. That's what happens in the outdoors.
Vic00:05:04No, Sonny. It's where you go to live. Ugh. God. You know what?
JVL00:05:09I saw the Blair Witch Project. Don't go outdoors. Yeah, don't go outdoors. Big mistake. Terrible. Big mistake. Some of us who like to go up mountains, who like to head out into the wild where there are bears and pitch a tent and make fires and carry knives and stuff.
Vic00:05:17I pitched a tent. I pitched a tent. I didn't have to go outside.
Sonny00:05:20Why would I want to be somewhere near a giant murderous grizzly bear? That sounds terrible.
Vic00:05:26I would love to do all these things. I read your great piece in The Standard about going out there to Yellowstone. I'm just allergic to air, so that's my minor problem.
JVL00:05:37Fine. Fine. I will just enjoy my new jeans, which are awesome, and people who like jeans should go and buy the Prana jeans.
Sonny00:05:45Prana Axiom. Did Buzz Bissinger write about these jeans when he was talking about his addiction to leather? These are two totally different things. Leather. Ridiculous pants.
Vic00:05:56Do you get the one with or without the cod pieces? That's what I want to know.
Sonny00:05:59Do you get the ones that have the zippers on the side so you don't actually have to squeeze into them? You can just unzip them.
Vic00:06:04There's also a zipper on the back.
Sonny00:06:06Yeah.
Vic00:06:07Okay, Sonny, you must be thrilled after last night's game, Green Bay. Last night?
Sonny00:06:16Vic, you mean Sunday's game. Sunday's game. Oh, wait. Excuse me. I will be honest. I thought I might be having a mild stroke. I was very short of breath, and the heart palpitations were very real. I was just sad that I did not have a can of Lombardi Brewing Company beer to drink while I ... We are apparently ...
JVL00:06:38A can of what?
Sonny00:06:39We are apparently big in the Wisconsin, North Dakota market. Lombardi? As in Vince? Yeah, as in Vince. I got a very nice text message from the Lombardi Brewing. Lombardi Brewing Empire that I should enjoy a Lombardi beer. Unfortunately, I can't because it's not available in D.C. or Northern Virginia, but if you live in Wisconsin or North Dakota, check out Lombardi.
Vic00:07:06Does Lombardi ship beer across state lines? I don't know. I'm not in charge of ... I wonder if they can ship to Washington, D.C. or thereabouts. I'm not in charge. Anyway. That would be exciting if they sent it to Virginia.
Sonny00:07:15We would totally drink it live on the air.
Vic00:07:17And talk about it incessantly. If you don't mind, I have to start off. Our show with some sad news. I was reading this in Forbes, that Women's Apparel Chain, The Limited, on Sunday, whenever that Sunday was, January 9th, began closing ... On a Sunday. Began closing all 250 of its stores across the United States and is slashing 4,000 jobs. This is their official statement said, "In an increasingly challenging environment for mall-based retail and women's apparel. We are very disappointed that the company has had to make the difficult decision to close its retail locations." Forbes goes on to explain that bankruptcy in the last two years has claimed the lives of Aeropostale, Pacific Sun, American Apparel, and Wet Seal, and what is more, mall anchors Macy's and Sears are closing hundreds of stores amid large sales declines. This is a terrible thing that's happening in this country. Wouldn't you agree? Sonny.
Sonny00:08:24Sonny? I was never really a mall rat. Most of my happy experiences with malls revolve around the movie Mallrats, not actually going to malls. I'm a little bit younger than you as listeners of The Substandard know, so I was not really into the whole... I also didn't grow up in the garbage state of New Jersey, so I'm like... I'm fired. I'm not really one of these people who would go to the mall and just hang out. When I went to the mall, I had a discreet shopping agenda. I was like, "I want to buy this CD, or I need to get some new Prada jeans to go with my Gucci sweater."
JVL00:09:07So what did you do with your time? Yeah, that's weird. I would...
Sonny00:09:10What else do you do except for go to the mall? I would see movies in movie theaters, and I would go hang out in friends' basements, and we would watch TV and play... And play board games, because we're the big winners. Oh, okay.
JVL00:09:24Big winners. That sounds totally better than being at a mall.
Vic00:09:29I would go to the mall to find the board games to bring home. That's the thing.
Sonny00:09:32I don't... Here's what I've never quite understood. What's the point of going to the mall just to hang out? What is the appeal of this? Can you explain? Jonathan... Jonathan...
JVL00:09:41Jonathan Last, can you explain to me... You're from Jersey. Your parents aren't there. The mall is like this cornucopia of delights, and there are no rules, and there's no supervision. You can do whatever you want. And so every Saturday at about 10:00 a.m., my best friend Chris and I, we had dropped off at the mall, and we'd stay there until we were picked up at like 7:00 p.m. And in the course of this, the first thing we would do is go to the Great American Cookie Company and order a cookie cake, because for like $12, you could get a giant sheet cake made of chocolate chip cookie, which was, I don't know, 45,000 calories for 12 bucks. And we would then go and roam the mall. We'd go to KB Toys. Oh, same here. We'd go into KB and we'd just go to the clearance aisle and get whatever plastic toy guns they had for like $2 that were there. In the bin. Right, in the bin. That would shoot like little foam darts or little discs, whatever, and we'd then run around shooting each other through the mall all afternoon long. We would see a movie at some point. We would go to Tower Records. Chris would buy whatever the latest new hipster CDs were, because Chris was into hipster music even before hipster music existed. And then after you've gone and seen like The Princess Bride or some great movie. Then you go to the Great American Cookie Company to pick up your cake, and you sit and make yourself sick eating, like, super warm, gooey chocolate chip sheet cake for, like, 45 minutes. And you could eat the whole thing. Then you go to the arcade, and then your parents pick you up eventually, and you have to go home.
Vic00:11:05And then you do it again on Sunday, but on Sunday the mall doesn't open until noon. Keep this in show notes, Jonathan. You can put this in show notes. There is a video somebody has put together on YouTube of AMC. Remember the—not AMC, General Cinemas, rather. General Cinemas. And they had this great, very distinct opening. They had that song. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, right? And they do a whole thing of General Cinemas from the 70s, 80s, and 90s. And it'll transport you back to that golden age of malls. But that is my adolescence.
JVL00:11:38I would say this was every weekend between the ages of 13 and 17, because in Jersey you don't get your license until 17. And then after 17, everything. Chris got his license first and had a car, and we could go and do things. But that was—like, that's life. Like, how else do you go through your teen years except by going to the mall?
Sonny00:11:58I don't. I—frankly, none of this makes— By the time I was a, you know, consumer with funds of my own to spend on things, I was going to, like, the kind of outdoor—you know the outdoor malls? Like, not really the strip— Not really the strip malls, but, like, yeah. Town center concepts, yeah. Where you have— Which are very nice. Where you have your Best Buy next to your Barnes & Noble or Borders. And then you have to walk outside. Right, right. And you walk outside. And, you know, those are similar but different, I think, because with the mall, right, where everything is indoors and you're kind of constrained by the space of the mall, you have a Sam Goody, which is trash and expensive. Horrible. And you have a Tower Records, which is similarly slightly less trash, but still—or you could just go to a Best Buy that has everything. It has, like, twice as many albums. And then if you wanted to buy a fridge, you could do that, too.
Vic00:12:53By the time you were of age, the mall had already evolved. There was no Best Buy in our time.
JVL00:12:58So I could go to— Back in our day, we didn't have Best Buy.
Sonny00:13:02We just had Best. I could go to the Best Buy and, like, browse in the video game department and then kind of go a step over and then there's an ocean of compact discs because we used to listen to compact discs. But, you know, I would go to— I would go to a Sam Goody or something and, first off, everything would be, like, 30% more expensive. Everything would be more expensive and—
JVL00:13:25Than what?
Sonny00:13:25Than, like, a Best Buy or— I mean, you know, so I could spend more money for less selection or I could go to a superior shopping experience. Now, the idea of just hanging out at a place that is intended for commerce— Like at Mallrats or Mean Girls. Yeah, right, right. Like, I totally sympathize with Shannon, the Ben Affleck— —character in Mallrats, who, you know, he sees these guys just wandering around. He's like, you kids have no shopping agenda. You've got nothing—you know, I am very—I am a—I'm not exactly a type A, but I do kind of like this idea of going someplace with a purpose. Yeah, I don't—
JVL00:14:05Yeah, no, I like wandering around. I love wandering.
Vic00:14:07Hard pass. It's Wanderlust in Jersey.
JVL00:14:10And you would go around—
Vic00:14:10This is a rite of passage, right? Yes, you know, aside from baseball, obviously, for me— Going to malls was the great American pastime. And even before the teenage years, we'd go as a family. We'd go to church on Sunday, and then we would go to the Ocean County Mall, and then we'd all split up and say, OK, we'll meet you back here at 3 o'clock, and then just go wherever you want to go. At which point, I would probably go to Spencer's Gifts and look at the extremely— Oh, the posters. The posters. The head of Locklear and the back of Spencer. It would be—I remember posters of Kathie Lee Crosby from Real People. She was wearing a swimsuit. Of course, the famous Farrah Fawcett one. Everybody remembers that one. But also Iron Maiden posters, because it was always like a Brit RAF pilot, but he was a skeleton. And then if you go all the way to the back of Spencer's Gifts, then it was the completely inappropriate adult-themed toys. The gag gift section.
JVL00:15:06The quote gag gift that I didn't understand what was happening to it. Is that when you saw your first personal massager?
Vic00:15:11I know, and yes. And, you know, things that you could put—there was like a two-person underwear and they had a picture and I'm like, well, why would anyone want to wear that, you know? And anyway, explore that for a little bit and then go to Hickory Farm to have a summer sausage. But no, sometimes they would have free samples over there. And then, you know, we'd get a slice of pizza and then—or get a pretzel from Hot Sam's, which was a place. And then, of course, there was movies. But when you got older, as you were saying, JVL, you know, you went there for movies. And then I'd go out and then I'd go to a Burger King with friends and have, like, a double cheeseburger because that was, like, the new thing. Or a bacon cheeseburger. That was the new thing at the time. And then, of course, most importantly was the arcade. I love the arcade. Can we talk about the arcade for a minute? Please.
JVL00:15:54Wasn't it the best? You mean, like, Street Fighter would be there and you'd line up your quarter to get in line to play Street Fighter?
Vic00:15:59Were you one of those jerks who, when you got on the video game, the arcade machine, you would line up the quarter and say, sorry, I'm going to be here for the next two hours? Do you remember those guys? No. Oh, you didn't do that?
JVL00:16:10In the arcades I frequented, the only people lining up quarters were people lining up to play whoever the reigning champ is in the fighting games.
Sonny00:16:19And so, I would say you would get your ass kicked if you lined up, like, 15 quarters on Rampage
JVL00:16:23because you just wanted to keep playing.
Vic00:16:24People did that. People would do that. You know, they'd line up their quarters and say, sorry, I'm going to be here for a while.
Sonny00:16:28Here's, okay, I have a question. I have an arcade question. I've been to, like, I am slightly barely old enough to remember, like, maybe not the heyday of arcades, but, like, the Street Fighter II Mortal Kombat era of arcades. Finish him. I have, I have, so there are definitely two. There were two different kinds. At this time, there were two different kinds of arcade games, right? Or maybe three. You had the, you had the fighter games, right? Which were obviously, like, set up to be, like, winner versus, like, the next guy, right? Like, you had, so you, you know, if the arcade was working properly, you had, like, two people playing at all times. Correct. And then you have the kind of side-scroller type games. Correct. Like, the Contras or whatever, you know, like the. Final Fight. Final Fight or, you know, that, that sort of thing. And then you have the shooter games, obviously, another, but which are basically just a variation on the side-scroller type games. Correct. Different input. Now, but here's, here's, I guess, my question on, on arcade etiquette is why would it not be acceptable, like Vic said, to just line up a bunch of quarters and be like, I'm playing this, again, Contra or whatever, until it's done. I'm playing this until I'm finished with it, even if I keep dying over and over again.
JVL00:17:45That. That would be fine. So, in games where it is a sort of narrative story game where you're, where you're continuing, that would be fine. In, in a game where it is a discrete encounter and, like, you know, you're playing Pit Fighter, there aren't only, there's no continue. In a game where the end of it is the end and there's no continuing, you can't just, like, say, oh, but I've got dibs for next. In a game where what you're doing is putting a quarter in to continue from the place you are, perfectly acceptable.
Sonny00:18:10Now, what, what about in the fighter game if you're trying to play all the way through to get to, like, Shang Tsung?
JVL00:18:16That's a continue, right? Because otherwise you have to start at the bottom of the pyramid, right? So, if you die on level seven, you have to start again at the bottom.
Vic00:18:22That would be totally fine. If I have ten seconds to go, good, I can use that next quarter that I had lined up, but then when I'm done, I'm done. That would be fine.
JVL00:18:28But if you're playing Asteroids or something where it's... Well, people did that, too. ...the finite thing, and it was like, well... That's not, that's not cool.
Vic00:18:33...you know, it just keeps on going, but that's okay. I mean, it was just understood that, okay, well, I guess I'll have to do something else. And then there were certain games, if you were a big spender, you could go do the sit-down Spy Hunter for 50 cents, which was sit-down, and if I was terrible at that game, and, you know, I mean, there's the helicopter that's shooting at you with the rocket, and then, of course, there was the great, you know, the road would split, and either you stayed on the road or you went into a boathouse. Do you remember that?
JVL00:19:00And all of a sudden, it's boat action, and I, maybe that happened to me once in my entire life, but I was a huge... You got some boat action? I got some boat action. You got some boat action? Yes.
Vic00:19:09Motorboat action? Yeah. Captain action. And what I... What I really loved was Time Pilot. That was my game. I just... That's right, that's where you were a Time Pilot guy. Time Pilot, Frontline, and then Frontline eventually evolved into, like, Commando, which was a great game, and games like Russian Attack, and it eventually became things like Contra, but... And then there was, of course, those World War II-themed games, like 1941. Oh, yeah, those were pretty great, yeah. I mean, once you got, like, bullets coming out of every orifice of the plane, you know, I mean, it's just mania. You ever... It's just, you know... Oh, yeah.
JVL00:19:38The whole screen is filled with fire. Plus, there's superchecks, there's air hockey, right?
Vic00:19:43Yeah. Oh, yeah. Air hockey and superchecks.
JVL00:19:44These are all the things that make, like, the greatest... The arcade was the best. I loved the arcade.
Vic00:19:49You know, you want to talk about... You spent hours in an arcade. The hardest game I ever tried playing there, but I was kind of somewhat addicted to, was... There was a time where they started coming out with these animated video games, you know, like Dragon Slayer. It started with Dragon Slayer, right? Not Dragon Slayer, sorry. Dragon Slayer.
Sonny00:20:07Space Ace was the space one? Yes, where... Wait, I don't understand. I don't... When you say animated... So, what do you mean?
JVL00:20:12It's a cartoon. Animated cartoon. So, these were games run off of a Laserdisc, essentially, and think of it as a giant thing of branching. So, almost like Choose Your Own Adventure, but they're so rudimentary that it was just... The story would play, and then you'd get to a point where you had to act by just hitting the action button, and if you hit it fast enough, then one set of story, you went to one branch of the Laserdisc menus. If you hit it too slowly, you went to another branch, and if you hit it too slowly three times, the branch you were in wound up killing you. Well, there was also... But it looked like the future. Right. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Vic00:20:45Well, there was another one. You would have appreciated this one, Sonny. I did not do well at those games, but there was one game called Cliffhanger, and you could find this on YouTube because somebody, of course, has downloaded it or has a clip of it, and that one is where you're actually moving your joystick to imitate the actions of the main hero, dodging bullets or fighting ninjas and things. So, you know, left, right, left, right. You have to memorize that whole thing, and I got as far as the ninjas. And then it's just, you know, a great action sequence, and you end up getting killed. And there's a jump button. So, it's like a regular video game, but it's actual cartoon. Cliffhanger, look into it.
Sonny00:21:22It was the best. Those all sound terrible, and none of them sound nearly as good as the X-Men arcade game. The X-Men arcade game is fantastic. Great. That was fantastic.
Vic00:21:30Were you, in the early years of that, were you a gauntlet guy? Did you like gauntlet?
Sonny00:21:34No.
Vic00:21:35That was too... It was before your time.
Sonny00:21:37Yeah, it was a little bit... I think that is a little bit before my time. You were baby Sonny. I was definitely... I would say the only games that I played extensively, and when I say extensively, meaning almost to completion, but never completion, because I would never spend more than $2 worth of quarters at any given time, was the X-Men arcade game, which was awesome, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles arcade game, another great one. Love those four-player games. Love those. The four-player side-scroller team action game is like the height of the arcade genre. The Simpsons arcade game was great. And the Terminator 2 shooter game, which I don't know if you, do you guys ever remember that? Garbage game.
Vic00:22:22Are there two rifles for you?
Sonny00:22:23Yeah, and you got the rocket button on the side. Yeah, that game was so good that I bought it for Super Nintendo, and I used to play it all the time.
Vic00:22:31I imagine, though, in the arcade, you probably could pour through a lot of quarters. I mean, it's very intense, right? Getting shot at from every direction. By intense, you mean random?
Sonny00:22:39The hardest, no, but it's not random at all. It is discrete patterns that you memorize. Yes, that's right. The hardest part of that Terminator game was where you had to defend the truck. There was a truck that they were trying to get to the...
Vic00:22:54Was this based on Terminator 2? Yes. Oh, so this was the controversy, right, about shooting cops in the knees? Was that the one?
Sonny00:22:59No, no, no, no.
Vic00:23:00Remember that story? I don't know what that's about. People got upset. That's from the movie. Because you were... Yeah, but you could be Arnold Schwarzenegger, and then you had to shoot them in the knees. That's not how...
Sonny00:23:09I don't...
Vic00:23:10Well, maybe that was... Yeah, maybe. I can't remember.
Sonny00:23:12Maybe you didn't get that far. I mean, I... Well, I definitely... I mean, I beat the game a million times at home, but, you know... Yeah. I guess maybe there was a sequence where you had to, like, shoot the SWAT cops. Right, yeah. I don't... That sounds like something people would get upset about. Yeah.
Vic00:23:27Yeah, exactly. And you would... You know, and you could spend so much time, if you did well, in the arcade. My friend Jose Hill claims that he spent so much time playing Q-Bert and had a huge crowd around him because he just kept on winning that he had to go to the bathroom so badly when he finally lost, he peed blood. That's what he said. But it was worth it. I'm sure he got a high score.
Sonny00:23:44I would just like to point out that we're talking about an actual store in the mall where you go to have, like, a discreet experience. Which, again, sounds like a lot of fun. I would definitely do this. Not a discreet experience. But I would definitely...
JVL00:23:55You're window shopping within the arcade. Sometimes you don't know what you're going to play when you go there. Sometimes you don't play anything. That's right. Sometimes you just want your friends.
Vic00:24:01Sometimes you're just sticking your finger to see if anyone left a quarter inside the
JVL00:24:04machine if you were desperate. God love her. So my brother's sister and I would go into the arcade, and my sister, a long-suffering little sister, would, during the winter months... Would stand there and patiently hold our big, heavy down jackets while my brother and I poured quarters into, like, the X-Men game. And would never want to play. She'd just sit there, patiently shaking her head.
Vic00:24:24God bless her. God bless her. That is true. That is true. Well, that was a wonderful trip down memory lane for... So wait. Go ahead. Wait, wait, wait. Yeah, please.
Sonny00:24:31What is... All right. So what it was... What were your... Victor? Yes. Yes, Sonny. Victorino? Yes, Sonny.
Vic00:24:37What was your favorite store in the mall?
Sonny00:24:42All right. All right.
Vic00:24:43Good question. It'd have to be the arcade. That was where I went. I mean, I didn't... You know what I mean? If I went shopping, I'd go to Camelot Records and look at the vinyl and see what I could... I remember... What's vinyl? Yeah. I remember when I walked in as an 11-year-old and the entire front of Camelot Records was covered with posters of a new album of a little baby with angel wings and smoking a cigarette. That would be Van Halen, 1984. And then Quiet Riot was another big one that just plastered the windows with Quiet Riot at the time. But anyway, yeah. You'd go in there and see what's up or buy your blank... You've got to get your Maxell tapes because they were the best for blank tapes. You want to make a mixtape for the girl you like in seventh grade. That's it. There you go. Did you get the Maxell gold?
JVL00:25:33Did you tell how much you liked the girl by which level Maxell tape you bought?
Sonny00:25:37I believe I gave it to my sister. Did you have one of the two tape decks? Oh, the double? Yeah, yeah. Early on, no. No, no, no.
Vic00:25:46I think that came later on. That is high tech. That is high tech.
JVL00:25:50I remember having, before I got a double deck, sitting there with a stereo receiver plugged in, waiting. I knew there'd be a song I wanted on a mixtape, so I would sit there waiting with my finger poised on the record button for the song to play on the radio so I could record it off of the radio onto the mixtape. And so sometimes you'd have the DJ talking.
Vic00:26:08Oh, that's the worst because oftentimes DJs will, as they say, hit the wall or hit the fence. And they won't stop as the music begins. They'll just stop when the vocal begins. But sometimes those vocalists go in for 10, 15 seconds. Very annoying. Back in the day.
JVL00:26:21But back in the day, most of those-
Vic00:26:23Did you become a man at the mall? Yes, it was in the arcade. It was at the, what was the one for the deep sea one? You know, you had to go inside the booth. What was that one with your torpedo? You know, yeah, yeah. I learned about the torpedo in there. No, what was it?
Sonny00:26:38Jonathan, what was your favorite store?
JVL00:26:41Favorite store? I liked the Gap, really. But see, it all depends on what age. So, like, when I was 13, I loved going to KB and- Oh, yeah. You know, like, for fun toys to get and stuff to do. As I got older, I'd like go to the Gap and pick up, like, a new braided belt, maybe. Maybe a cool t-shirt or something like that. Then when I got older, I liked going to Tower. And, you know, again, I was at a huge advantage because my best friend, still my best friend, was a rich kid whose mom would just give him 20s as if it was, like, totally cool. Because he had, like, a new music budget. So, just a budget every week for him. And, like, go out and just- That is pretty cool. Wow. Like, Rolling Stone had- The Rolling Stone editor's picks for Hot New Band coming out of Iceland said that this, you know, these sugar cubes, people frontlined by this weird girl named Bjork were going to be hot. So, he'd be like, oh, I'd go out and buy the new sugar cubes album just to see what's going on with it. I mean, imagine being 13 years old and being able to buy CDs just on spec. Yeah. That's pretty great. So, yeah.
Sonny00:27:35I would have to wait until there were at least three popular songs from an album. And then I would be like, okay, now I can buy- Now I can try. Rolling Stone. This is- Now that Machine Head is a big hit, I can buy that album.
Vic00:27:47No, you constantly found yourself scanning the back, but all these songs and all these different tracks, like- Well, I like enough of them. Exactly, because, you know, you're going to end up with what? That's how he ended up with the Escape Club's Wild Wild West tape, but trust me, it's not worth it.
JVL00:27:59And the movie theater. The movie theater was- I mean, people don't appreciate, now that you have awesome 22 screen, 30 screen multiplexes, going to a theater with six screens where you had to know, okay, so you'd get to the movie theater, okay, so the movie I want to see is three hours from now, I have three hours to kill, was sort of fun. Like, you know, the first dates I went on were, you know, like, Sharon Hinsky, we met and went and saw The Princess Bride at the Echelon Mall movie theater, and then went and had, like, no kidding, like, cookies from the Chocolate Chip Cookie Company or whatever, the great cookie company. Aw, that's very sweet.
Sonny00:28:30So this was, like, it was great. Yeah.
JVL00:28:31It was a great shared space, and it was indoors, and it's a culture that's awesome. And I lament that my children won't be able to be raised in a mall that's not like that.
Sonny00:28:39Yeah, this is all so interesting and foreign to me. I just don't under- I don't understand it. Like, I can literally count on one hand the number of times I went to see a movie at the mall. The only time, the one time, I can count on one finger. Wow. That was because it was the only theater near Stafford County, Virginia, that was playing, again, Kevin Smith. Kevin Smith's Dogma was the Fredericksburg Mall, and so I went there to go watch it. And that was the only time I'd ever been into a mall until very- I think I saw the Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter movie at the Potomac Mills Mall. And between those 20 years, I don't think I saw a movie at a mall, because I would go to a multiplex.
Vic00:29:26Yeah, when I came back to, coming back to Tom's River, of course, there were no more theaters that were connected to the malls, I don't think. They were all separate standalones now, like AMC or whatever like that. I went on a double date to see the movie Saturday. And Satisfaction, Satisfaction starring, you know who it was? Justine Bateman. Very good. Ding, ding, ding. Oh, JVL for the win. And who was the secondary character in her, who was a minor actress in that movie? Justine Bateman got top billing, right? You're not going to believe it. Julia Roberts. No. Yeah, Julia Roberts. And then they repurposed it for like TV. They gave it a new name called like Girls of Summer, starring Julia Roberts, like after Pretty Woman. Shameless. That was wonderful.
Sonny00:30:15The only mall store I liked was Another Universe at the Springfield Mall. What was that? It was like a comic book store. It was like a super comic book store. And I would, that was the only one I've ever... I also went to B. Dalton's.
JVL00:30:26Oh yeah, I forgot about that. We had Hero's World. We had a giant comic book store in almost all of our malls in South Jersey. Those were also great.
Vic00:30:32There were no comic book stores at the Ocean County Mall. I went to B. Dalton's or Walden Books. Again, like... Great bookstores at the time.
Sonny00:30:39Again, once again, like this sort of store that is... Was made totally obsolete in the early to mid-90s with Borders and Barnes & Noble. Yeah, that's right.
Vic00:30:47All that stuff, most of that stuff is gone. Although, as Jonathan sent us this link to the story in Bloomberg called Your Local Mall is Dying, apparently there are some places where the mall continues to thrive and that most of the shutdowns are going on in very specific regions. So, for example, in the story in Bloomberg, it says Sears is closing seven Kmart stores in Kentucky compared to four in California. Eight Sears stores are closing in Ohio. Pennsylvania, only one in Texas. So, it really is, depending on where you are, either it's dead or you can continue on trying to live the dream. I also wondered with the, you know, we used to go to arcades and what do the kids do now? I'm guessing kids just hang out at Starbucks. You think? Is that what kids do?
Sonny00:31:29Well, they hang out online where they play their video games over the internet. Snapchat. When they're not sexting.
JVL00:31:35The YouTubes. When they're not having their sex parties.
Sonny00:31:39When they're not, yeah, when they're not, like, flashing each other
JVL00:31:42Well, deadmalls.com. I encourage anybody who likes this sort of thing, go to deadmalls.com. It is a nearly encyclopedic catalog of failing malls in America. There are many. It's really, it's interesting to see, especially if you grew up with some of these places. I have watched many of my childhood malls fade away or be repurposed. One of them, the Echelon Mall, actually, they had demolished half of it. They knocked down half of it and pushed most of the anchors out. Now, they tried to make it into a mixed-use residential. I don't know how successful it's been. But no, like everything else in modern America, this is a case of the rich getting richer. That's right. If you're out in the Tysons, the Tysons Mall outside of D.C. is the biggest thing you've ever seen. It's enormous, and it's incredibly well-to-do. This is where people from the Capitol and the Hunger Games, sense of the word, go to do all their shopping. But if you're someplace else out there in more rural America, places where there used to be malls, those things are dying. It actually causes a problem, because in a lot of cases, real infrastructure was laid in around the mall. Not just sewer systems that need to keep being maintained, and power systems, but roads. We had a real problem in the Springfield Mall, which almost died. The Springfield Mall came within an inch of dying here in Washington, D.C. And it is at the major crossroads of 495, which is the Capitol Beltway, and I-95, the major corridor.
Sonny00:33:01The mixing bowl. The mixing bowl, right.
JVL00:33:02And so it's this giant mall, and it really nearly went under. And imagine if it had-
Sonny00:33:07Somebody got murdered there. It was creepy. There were entire wings. There were entire wings of the mall that were shut down.
JVL00:33:13I think their occupancy rate was down to 20%. Yeah.
Sonny00:33:15So I think it was 80% vacant for a truly giant space. Yeah, yeah.
JVL00:33:19And so just imagine if that had gone under. Like, all of those roads around there, which were built just to house the mall. Like, what happens with all of that? Yeah, it's a lot of space. It's a real problem.
Sonny00:33:29But it is worth pointing out that they have really resurrected that Springfield Mall into the Springfield Town Center type thing. I go there- I went there just this weekend. I also got some new socks that I'm wearing right now at the Springfield Town Center I went to one of the stores there, and they have, like, totally kind of redeveloped and redesigned and rethought it as a place where you go for, like, mid-to-high casual dining. You know, you've got your Maggianos and your Yard House and that sort of thing. But they also have a Saks Off 5th and a Nordstrom Rack, so it's, like, slightly nicer clothes. Yeah, it's upscale. Yeah. But not, like, you know, it's not a Saks. It's not a Nordstrom. It's, like, you know. Right. So, like, they've done a really good job of kind of revitalizing that whole thing by putting in a Target instead of a Sears. Right.
Vic00:34:20Right.
Sonny00:34:20You know?
Vic00:34:21Or JCPenney's. That was the Oshikere Mall. The anchors were Bambergers, which then became Macy's, Sears, and JCPenney. And at the time, you know, those shops, those stores were on top of the world.
JVL00:34:31What is interesting to me is what has happened. So, when a mall really works, when it's good, down where I live out in Virginia, we have the Potomac Mills Mall, which you know all about, and the Potomac Mills Mall was so successful that it attracted around it. It is now ringed by, I want to say, seven very large strip centers. All of which are very successful. And then on the other side of the strip centers now, there's one of these giant mixed-use places called the Stonebridge Center, which is like an outdoor mall concept with a little bit of residential concept. And so, the Potomac Mills Mall actually has anchored this entire expanse of retail. And it's really impressive and interesting, and they all seem to thrive basically to gather. It all works. They don't cannibalize one another. So, when the mall works, it can still succeed, but the problem is things are changing. I actually wonder, I mean, this is the eternal question, how much pressure does internet commerce put on all this stuff? And this is why so many of them become dining experiences or video game experiences. Do you buy clothes?
Vic00:35:29How often do you buy clothes on the internet? Because I find I'd rather see if it fits me, besides looking at numbers, before I buy. The only thing I buy online are Brooks Brothers shirts.
Sonny00:35:40You have that now. I know the exact measurements that fit me, and I know what fits I like, and that sort of thing.
JVL00:35:48I buy everything online, and if I'm undecided on the size, I will buy two of them in the different sizes, or send back the one I don't want.
Vic00:35:57Wow. There you go. I used to go to Structure. That's where I did most of my- Yes! You went to high school at the time. I was at the Standard.
JVL00:36:04Did you wear Drakkar Noir?
Vic00:36:06I did, but at separate times, Jonathan. It's not Structure, and I think- Drakkar! Power of the Black.
JVL00:36:11Do you wear Drakkar Noir? I used to say, the power of the Black.
Vic00:36:13I used to wear- If I wore Drakkar, that was probably when Structure was still Chess King. When Structure-
Sonny00:36:18Wait, Structure had a name before Structure?
Vic00:36:21In my mall, it was Chess King, and then it became Structure, and then it became Express
JVL00:36:25for Men. What was Chess King?
Vic00:36:26It was kind of- Was it a store for men? I dare you to say it.
JVL00:36:29I was going to say it. What kind of men, Vic?
Vic00:36:31Oh, well, Express for Men was- Chess King, Vic. Metrosexual. What sort of men was Chess King for? I thought Chess King was wider men. I don't know. Was that just me? I thought they were bulky stuff, and then it got- It was narrower and narrower and narrower as you evolved it to Express for Men. Wait, is it Chess or Chess?
JVL00:36:47Chess. Chess. Like the game? It was for your people, Vic.
Vic00:36:51Which people would that be? Large people?
JVL00:36:53No. More of the Italian-American type persuasion.
Vic00:36:58I wouldn't know that, because, of course, I was surrounded by my peeps. Right, I was like, this was everybody that you- I wouldn't have known.
JVL00:37:04Everybody you grew up with, I'm sure, shot the Chess King.
Vic00:37:06That's funny. Chess King, yeah. Of course. Wow, you learn something every day.
JVL00:37:11Something about yourself every day.
Vic00:37:12You know, this kind of-
JVL00:37:14See, you go to the mall to learn about yourself. You do. Thank you. This is a very special edition of The Substandard.
Vic00:37:22That's right. Mall is a great place for self-discovery. Okay. Especially the arcade, Vic. Moving right along, believe it or not, we got a sponsor. In fact, it's a great sponsor. It's Audible. Every book you could imagine. I've been listening to a bunch. It's terrific. In fact, I go all the way back to the book. Books on tape days. You know, I'd pop it into my cassette in my Mitsubishi Montero, and I'd be listening to whatever in order to get me to New Jersey in three and a half or four hours. And then, after I got married and had kids, we'd be driving all the way up to Connecticut, which should be five hours, but in fact, takes eight hours. So, how do you get through that time? By listening to Audible. They've got every book you could imagine. There are books for the kids to listen to and you to enjoy. For example, the Harry Potter books. And there are books that are absolutely gripping thrillers. Take, for example, one of my favorites. One of my favorites from Audible is World War Z. That'll have you terrified, and then you really want to get to Connecticut as soon as possible. If you want to listen to it, Audible has it. Just go to audible.com slash weeklystandard and browse their unmatched selection of audio content. Download a title for free and start listening. It's that easy. For example, I was talking about World War Z, but they also have Ready Player One, which is going to be a Spielberg movie very soon, and The Martian. And it's supposed to be fantastic, and I can't wait to listen to all of them. I almost want to go to Connecticut. I get to visit my in-laws just to listen to these books on Audible. Go to audible.com slash weeklystandard. And thank you, Audible, for sponsoring The Substandard. Continuing with the sad news, Jonathan, you sent us a note over the weekend of some very sad news of the passing of a legend. Tell us about it.
JVL00:39:02Jimmy Superfly Snooker passed away. This was not a surprise when he had his murder verdict reversed a couple weeks ago. It turns out that part of the plea was, you know, this man has mere weeks to live. When that happened, I emailed a friend of mine, a friend of the show, Adam White, and I said, clearly that's a work. You know, he's perfectly healthy, but he's pretending to be catatonic and on death's door. And it turns out it was a straight shoot. It's for real. Did you know what he was? It was not kayfabe. What was he dying of?
Vic00:39:35Did you know? I don't. I don't recall. Wrestler issues like brain and heart.
JVL00:39:40He's in his 70s. And the Superfly made it very, very... And Superfly is one of our childhood greats. The Superfly Junkyard Dog.
Vic00:39:49So what you're saying is that Superfly was old when he was great already. He was not a young guy. He was in his 70s now.
JVL00:39:55He was great like 35 years ago. When he was at his height for us in his WWE days, flying, he was in his... He was the age you are now, Vic. I feel like the wrestler.
Vic00:40:06So go ahead and look in the mirror. Do you look like Superfly? I feel like Mickey Rourke.
JVL00:40:10Anyway. So like Rowdy Roddy Piper is now dead. This is a funny thing I learned about him as reading up on Superfly. I remember his famous feud with Roddy Piper when Roddy Piper, he came into the Piper's Pit and Roddy broke the coconut over his head.
Sonny00:40:24The Piper's Pit, which was... What? I'm saying you should explain it to the people what the Piper's Pit was.
JVL00:40:30So WWE, in their broadcast, used to have little... What would you even call these? Little put-on gimmicks. They're little interviews. Interviews. And so Bruce the Barber Beefcake had... What was his? The Barber Shop. The Barber Shop. Where he would do interviews. The most famous of these was Piper's Pit, where Roddy Piper would have people on. And he got into a feud with Jimmy Snuka, and they went back and forth. It was a great feud, and then all of a sudden, Jimmy Snuka disappeared and was replaced by the Tonga Kid, who was his nephew.
Vic00:40:57Yes, because Jimmy himself was a Tonga guy. He was Tongese, right? Well, he's from Fiji, but yes. Fiji, yeah. He was from the Isle of Fiji, Tonga, whatever.
JVL00:41:04Close enough for events. So I remember, even at the time, thinking, boy, this Tonga Kid feels like a cheap knockoff. This is no good. But I was worried what happened. I was worried what happened to Superfly, because evidently the problem was that Roddy Piper had broken his neck by hitting him with a chair. And now I learned all these years later, it was now he went to rehab.
Sonny00:41:23He hit him with a bell or something, wasn't he? He drove his head into a ring.
JVL00:41:26That's Ricky the Dragon Steamboat and the Macho Man Randy Sepp. And all of these guys are dead, right? Roddy Piper's dead. Ricky the Dragon Steamboat, he's not dead, is he? Ricky Steamboat is, I think, still alive. David Shoemaker, who now writes for The Ringer. Used to write for Grant Land. He was the masked man. Before that, wrote for Deadspin and wrote a tremendous book on this, which I reviewed for The Wall Street Journal. And I encourage everybody who's interested in wrestling to go buy it. It's called The Squared Circle. I'll link to it in show notes. He used to do Dead Wrestlers of the Week and these little mini portraits of that. And they were just beautiful and moving. His book is great, and it's filled with all sorts of fantastic stuff. Like, for instance, that it was a great moment in racial progress in America. When wrestling promoters felt safe to have African-American wrestlers be heels and not babyfaces. Because in the early days, if you had a black wrestler, he always had to be a babyface. Because the promoters were worried that a black heel might really incite the crowd and have them turn violent. So when they felt like the rest of, you know, like Southern America wrestling fans were ready to accept blacks as heels without actually hating them. Like, that was a real step forward.
Sonny00:42:38Do we know who was the first black heel?
JVL00:42:41I'm sure it's in the Shoemaker book, and I have to go back and look.
Vic00:42:43I always feared Kamala, right?
JVL00:42:46Kamala, the Ugandan giant.
Vic00:42:47He terrified me, but you can actually see. I mean, he was always wearing... Remember his great feud with Jake the Snake? That's right.
Sonny00:42:54That's right. Jake the Snake, who is still alive? Yeah. Was he one of the guys who, like, got with Diamond Dallas Page? He was in that great documentary.
JVL00:43:01I think Diamond Dallas Page may have saved his life. Yeah, he was in that phenomenal documentary.
Vic00:43:04But, you know, much like in a lot of movies and pop culture, I always favored the villains. I always favored the villains over the heroes in wrestling. I don't know about you. Certainly in the WWF days. So, I mean, Hulk Hogan was great, but I always was much more amused by Rowdy Roddy Piper. And the same thing with the non-wrestlers, like Mr. Fuji. Mr. Fuji. Mr. Fuji. Bobby the Brain Heenan. Bobby the Brain Heenan. And I believe Freddie Blassie. I don't think he was a good guy. I think Classy.
JVL00:43:33Freddie Blassie.
Vic00:43:34Classy, Freddie Blassie. And those guys. Mr. Perfect.
JVL00:43:38Yes. Mr. Perfect.
Vic00:43:39Mr. Perfect. And even, you know... I also was terrified by George the Animal Steel.
JVL00:43:44But I don't think he was really a bad guy.
Vic00:43:46He was misunderstood. The only wrestler with body hair. Yeah, I know. They kept it. They were too scared to tell him to take it off. And who was his love interest, right? The lovely Miss Elizabeth. There you go. Who died at the house of Lex Luger.
JVL00:43:58I remember when they had first hit. So, Lex Luger also now gone. Such a dark universe. But when this happened, like, I just thought to myself, this is... It sounds, again, like a shoot. It sounds like a storyline from the show.
Vic00:44:11Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember George the Animal Steel eating the turnbuckles.
JVL00:44:15Yes, that was his move. Eating! He'd eat the turnbuckle and the stuff would fly. Sonny, what was... So, you were... Were you a WCW Nitro guy? Were you a WWF Raw guy?
Sonny00:44:26So, growing up, I was definitely... I watched WWF. I went to a live WWF event in, like, 91 or 92. Yeah, who'd you see? It was... The main event, I'm pretty sure, was Ric Flair versus Rowdy Roddy Piper. I think. That's awesome. Which was... I'll be honest, it's all kind of a haze to me. I mean, this was... It was definitely back when the Rockers were still together. So, it was, like... It must have been, like, early, I don't know, 90, 91, 90, something like that. And I was definitely... So, I was definitely a WWF guy growing up. Even though I lived in Florida, which was kind of WCW territory, you know, it was the Southern Circuit or whatever. In the Monday Night Roar... The Monday Night Wars... I was definitely, at first, a WWF guy when I got to watch it. It actually came on kind of late for the Bunch household. Like, at 9 p.m. start time on USA was, like... That's... Yeah, that's... That is... That's a big ask on a Monday. On a Monday, right? On a school night, you know? So, you're behind, you're playing catch-up the whole school week.
Vic00:45:27And the best part is when you go to bed, you're still thinking about it. Yeah, yeah.
Sonny00:45:30So, but... I definitely switched allegiances when Hulk Hogan switched. When Hulk Hogan went to the WCW, that was, like, a big moment for me. When he was a bad guy in the WCW. It was the greatest thing I'd ever... This is the first time, I think, that the, like, Case for the Empire type of, like... Because Hulk Hogan... Seminal moment. Hulk Hogan was always a good guy, even if he was a bad guy with a fake black, you know, beard and, like, throwing good guys through windows or whatever. He was still the good guy. Even if he's being... Even if he's playing the bad guy, he's still the good guy. So, I was... But, you know, my thing with wrestling growing up was always, you know, what are the life lessons that we can learn from wrestling? And the biggest life lesson I learned from wrestling was taught when Shawn Michaels kicked Marty Jannetty through the plate glass window in Brutus' barbershop and destroyed him and destroyed his career in one fell quick kick to the face through the glass. And that lesson is never trust anyone. Never, ever trust anyone. They will betray you for their own gain at a moment's notice, at the drop of the hat. I should have taught you another lesson, too, Sonny.
JVL00:46:43In any partnership, there can only be one star. Yes. Yeah. That's right. That's right. I'm looking at you, too.
Sonny00:46:49Yeah. I mean, I think we all know who's coming out of the substandard with a, you know.
Vic00:46:54I have a bad feeling about this podcast contract. Just saying. Remember Captain Lou Albano? Remember Captain Lou Albano? He had a rubber band on his face. A little bit. All over his face. Again, a little bit before my time. Oh, yeah.
JVL00:47:06And he became a big deal because of Cindy Lauper. Just want to have fun.
Vic00:47:11And there was. There was a riot that broke out. Yes, that's right. He had that great cameo in the video, Girls Just Want to Have Fun. And then they had that big fight that broke out during a wrestling match. And Captain Lou was there. And then Cindy Lauper was there. And then Cindy Lauper's, like, male friend manager got hit by a chair. And just, you know, it was chaos. But for me, I always felt, you know, when you're a kid, you like to believe these things are real. And then, you know, you become disillusioned. But I remember. I loved Sergeant Slaughter. I thought he was great. And he would fight against.
JVL00:47:47The Iron Sheik.
Vic00:47:47The Iron Sheik or maybe Nikolai Volkov also. Both. It would work. It would work.
Sonny00:47:51America had no shortage of enemies in the 1980s.
JVL00:47:53They did not. But do you remember. Neither of them. They were neither Iranian nor Russian. Yes.
Vic00:47:59They were probably, what, you know, Armenian, you know, Jewish.
JVL00:48:02They're both from New Jersey. They're from Jersey.
Vic00:48:04You know, but then, of course, Sergeant Slaughter had this turnaround after they. Remember, he became an Iraq warship. And that was just terrible. And that was, well, that was. But, of course, and he had a short run on G.I. Joe. It was like, what's happening here? You know.
JVL00:48:18He followed William the Refrigerator Perry. That's right. As a special G.I. Joe guy that you have to send away for to get. The fridge. In the steps of Boba Fett.
Sonny00:48:28And Sergeant Slaughter was like, was he introduced in the G.I. Joe movie? Where they sent the new guys to the boot camp? He, I think.
Vic00:48:37I might be wrong. I don't know. Sergeant Slaughter might have existed. I wasn't sure. And then he came on. Went to the cartoon, I think, is what happened.
Sonny00:48:43Well, no. He was definitely real before. He was, quote, real before the, you know, the cartoon.
JVL00:48:47Truth is, Sergeant Slaughter is a totally mediocre wrestler. Or just a qua wrestler. Sergeant Slaughter never really generated the heat that he should have.
Sonny00:48:54But this is like saying that Hulk Hogan is a mediocre wrestler. Yes, he's technically not terribly proficient. No, I mean as a figure.
Vic00:48:59I mean, like, everything about Sergeant Slaughter isn't quite as good as it should have been. That's right. I am sure that we could even go much longer if we had our other friend here, long-time listener, Matt Labash. Who is also a big pro wrestler. Can I tell Matt Labash? Von Erich fan.
JVL00:49:15Yes. So, Labash, were you here for this, Victorino? Remind me. Labash was doing a story on Christian wrestling. That's right. 15 years ago, 16 years ago. And I'm sitting, this is when I was fact-checking, I'm sitting at my desk fact-checking, and Labash comes running over to me in the middle of the day. He goes, come here, come here, come here, come here. You gotta come to my office. You gotta come to my office. You gotta hear this. So, we go into his office. He puts his phone on speaker, dials in his voicemail, and hits play. And on the message, you hear, hey, Matt Labash. This is Ted DiBiase returning your phone call. And it is the Ted DiBiase. It is his voice. Like, the, it is his wrestling voice. The million-dollar man. And it was the great, I saw. Everybody's got his price. Everybody's got his price. I hope that Matt still has that. And actually, the Labash piece on this, I'll link to this in show notes, his piece on Christian wrestling is so, it's vintage Labash and really great. This whole subculture of.
Vic00:50:07He has a long, there's a long stretch on the Von Eriks. As a matter of fact, which is a tragic story. Yeah. So, it's definitely worth checking out and definitely worth putting in show notes. Do you have any other thoughts right now? No. I think we're.
JVL00:50:21I will put in show notes, like, anybody who likes wrestling writing, which I think is a lot of people. Yeah, yeah. It's one of these subjects which, the truth is, everybody kind of likes and everybody is also a little bit afraid to admit it. I will put a cache of really great things to read.
Sonny00:50:35And you got to put Max Landis's. I'll put Max Landis.
JVL00:50:38And there's a Texas monthly piece on the Van. Von Erich family, which is 17,000 words and is amazing.
Sonny00:50:44Go to show notes, people. Go to show notes.
JVL00:50:46Yeah, go. It'll be up on probably Thursday or Friday. WeeklyStandard.com. Do we have corrections?
Vic00:50:52I don't, for once.
Sonny00:50:54Oh, I think we do. I've got nothing. I had one. I actually did have one this week. I had one. I said that The Kingdom was released in 2004. It was actually released in 2007.
JVL00:51:04I actually have no corrections. I have two extensions, clarifications. Our colleague Jim Swift says that in Eurotrip, which we talked about. Because of Matt Damon. He said all the kids were from Hudson, Ohio, which is a real place, which made that movie a cult classic in Cleveland. Ah, who knew?
Vic00:51:20Right up there with Major League.
JVL00:51:21And Sonny, we have a new review up on iTunes from MZ792, who titles his, her, it review,
Sonny00:51:30it's fine. It's a good review. And what does it say?
JVL00:51:33And it says, insightful, humorous, and authentic look at culture, M-Dash, Sonny is the best worst.
Sonny00:51:40Best slash worst.
JVL00:51:41No, not slash. Best worst. All one word. You know what? I like that. It's not wrong. Love it.
Vic00:51:46It is not wrong at all. That's all I have. Okay, cool. Our spirit of the week. We got a good one. We might just keep this one until the bottle is empty after every episode. This is a, we are drinking a Woodford Reserve today. One of the great bourbons of all time. It's a classic Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey, courtesy of the Distilled Spirits Council. So many thanks to our friends over there. Sonny, did you like it?
Sonny00:52:10Yeah, this is. This is definitely one of the original, like, premium bourbons. I remember drinking this when I was in college and being like, wow, this is so much better than Jim Beam, which is all I would. And more expensive, too. Yeah, right. Well, it was expensive, which is why I never bought it. You know, now it's kind of like almost a mid-tier. Isn't that weird? It's the same thing with Makers. I used to think Makers was, you know, top shelf. Makers used to be, I mean, Makers was. That was your top shelf bourbon. You had Makers, you had Woodford, you had, like, Knob Creek. Yeah. And then you had, like, the super expensive.
Vic00:52:38You know what I remember? I was doing interviews for my vodka book. I went to Jim Beam. They make vodka, too. But, you know, after I was done talking about the vodka stuff, I said, well, tell me about the Jim Beam bourbon empire, and they own Makers Mark. And I said, you know, it's so funny. I said to the guy, it used to be that, you know, Makers was, oh, a top shelf, and, like, a few people would get it. It was more expensive than the other bourbons. And suddenly, without changing the price, everybody's getting Makers Mark. Everybody's spending more on bourbon. And he goes, well, that just means you have to find another top shelf product. Yeah, part of our empire as well. Yeah. So, just continue on. You know, there's always other ones to make.
Sonny00:53:16I mean, bourbon is such a weird product, because it takes so long to make that it's hard to, you know, ride those. Yeah. Yeah.
Vic00:53:24Okay, great. And that's all the time, I believe, we have on this week's episode of The Substandard. We don't.
JVL00:53:31These podcasts will go as long as you want them to. I know why you say that at the end of every episode. We have. Come up with a different exit strategy.
Vic00:53:37No, it's over. Go to our iTunes page. It's over. Questions, comments, complaints. Compliments, tweet us at Victorino Matus, at Sonny Bunch, at JV Last, about how great that outro is. Don't. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes or Google Play. Just type in The Substandard on our podcasts, and we're there. Leave a review. Tell your friends. Until next time.
JVL00:54:03You forgot to mention. Can I tell it? The Shannon Doherty story. Can I tell my Mallrats story? Yeah. Go for it.
Sonny00:54:09Do you guys remember this? Am I repeating something? Have you heard of it? Have you heard this? I have heard this story before, but nobody who is listening right now has heard it. Okay.
JVL00:54:15And I forgot it, so go for it. So, this is another White House Correspondents Dinner story, because this is where all of my good stories come from. It's got to be 15 years ago, because it's right before I got married. I was at, I think, what is the last Correspondents Dinner I went to, because this thing was so great and so epic that I just never went back, because nothing could get better. And I'm at the Bloomberg afterparty, and so it's now like one or two o'clock in the morning, and it's at the Russian, what is that place? Russia House. Russia House. Is it the Russia House? It was. Russia House is up in Connecticut. I remember I couldn't get in under the name Fred Barnes. That's what I remember. So, I did get in, and as I'm getting in, Rich Eisen is getting turned away next to me.
Vic00:54:57Yeah, I was next to him. That's why Rich Eisen and I got turned away.
JVL00:55:00And I turn to the woman who's telling Rich Eisen he can't go in, and I say, you've got to let this guy in. Don't you know who he is? He's Rich Eisen. And this lady said, I don't know who he is or care who he is. He ain't on the list. He ain't getting in. And Rich said, thanks, man. I said, sorry, buddy. So, I wicks my way inside. Inside, it is basically like the orgy from Eyes Wide Shut. Everybody who is on staff there is wearing, like, nothing but black and wearing masks over their faces so that you can't even see the faces of the people who are, like, serving you drinks because, you know, you don't want to be distracted by them. They don't matter. And it's one of these insane, like, you know, I meet Harrison Ford. I hang out with him. And Matt Drudge is there. You were doing shots with who again? Doing shots with Jeff Toobin and Viet Dinh, who was in the Clinton administration.
Vic00:55:51Bush administration. Viet Dinh was Bush. Was he Bush administration?
JVL00:55:53And then late in the night, I wind up at the bar, and I'm getting another drink, and I turn, and standing next to me is Shannon Doherty. And so, Matt Labash, who taught me how to talk to celebrities, I followed Matt's script. I said, hey, Shannon Doherty, Jonathan Last from The Weekly Standard, love your work. And then I introduced a thoughtful detail, which is what Labash does. And I said, I really thought that your monologue in Mallrats, where you were moving the pieces of furniture around while you're giving your talk, was just a phenomenal piece of actorly work, and really, for me, the high point of that movie. And she stopped, she said, geez, thank you. That's very nice of you. And so, we just sat and hung out for like a really long time. We got drinks. We sat down and talked. She's a rabid conservative, very, she may not be anymore, maybe the Bush years have pushed her away from it. But she was, she was very pleasant, very well read, you know, reads the New York Times, Wall Street Journal every morning, totally a ton of fun. And I, huge Shannon Daugherty fan, just period, even more so after that. And so, even more horrified when, you know, of course, Shannon Daugherty is fighting this horrible case of breast cancer, and it just reminds us that time can be unkind to all of us. And I'm sure if Shannon Daugherty could see me today, she would say, well, you know, you look terrible too. Especially in those jeans.
Sonny00:57:13Yeah, she wouldn't be wrong. I mean, she would see-
JVL00:57:15She would not be wrong. I've been turned into a monster by time. She would see- But God bless Shannon Daugherty, and I hope she kicks cancer's ass.
Sonny00:57:20She would see your Prada jeans and be like, you know, I don't like it when people in Beverly Hills wear this nonsense. I don't understand why you, D.C. area journalist, are wearing leather assless chap type pants.
JVL00:57:32That's, redundant chaps are by definition assless. Everybody always says assless chaps to make a point, but they're being redundant.
Vic00:57:39It's the kind of jeans that Brian Greene would have worn. Or on her old show, 90210. I'm just saying, Shannon Daugherty's awesome.
Sonny00:57:44It's the sort of jeans that Brian Bosworth would have worn, you know, as he's like prancing up and down the, you know, he's going to his ass. That great movie.
Vic00:57:51That great movie about the boss.
JVL00:57:53Hey, Sonny, want to go hiking this weekend? Well, no. I want to wear my Prada jeans in the house and just kind of sit there. Anyway, Shannon Daugherty's awesome, and, you know, pray for her. God bless her, and I hope she kicks cancer's ass.
Sonny00:58:06I was doubtful that this show would be a success, by the way, as I told you guys.
Vic00:58:10You were the- You were really down before- I was, you know, wrestling. And you were doing your best to weigh us down. The negative vibes were so powerful.
Sonny00:58:16And yet here we turned in, I think, probably the greatest of 50 minutes of podcasting that has ever been done.
JVL00:58:24Well, since this is obviously our last episode. Right. Yeah, I'm glad we're ending on a high note. Yeah.
Vic00:58:28So what you're saying is what? I'm sure it's fine.
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