#352. 'Hulk Hogan: Real American' (Netflix)
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The main event is Netflix's four-part Hulk Hogan: Real American, which all three hosts watch and largely admire even as they pick apart its function as WWE-sanctioned propaganda: Sonny calls it a "worked shoot" — an officially blessed narrative that whitewashes Hogan's firing, his three (mostly two-acknowledged) marriages, and his estrangement from his daughter, while arguing you can't understand modern America, up to and including Donald Trump, without understanding pro wrestling and the WCW-versus-WWF wars Ted Turner helped ignite. JVL, watching it as a companion piece to the earlier Mr. McMahon documentary, argues the film's real story is told by its omissions — no Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, or Undertaker — and lays out how Hogan hoarded spotlight and money (snitching on the WrestleMania I unionization attempt, lying to the feds about steroids) while curdling into his heel persona once he stopped being able to distinguish kayfabe "heat" from real hatred, including from his own family. Mike, the wrestling newcomer of the trio, comes at it through his WCW/Hollywood Hogan childhood and his surreal in-person memory of Hogan getting booed at the 2024 RNC, and is especially moved by interview footage of first wife Linda, whom JVL praises as the rare wrestling-world figure who was "never a character." Before any of that, the guys open with an unusually heavy note — JVL asks listeners to keep Sub-Beacon friend Chris Haberman's family in their prayers after his father's death — then move into Sonny's saga of hairdresser-app anxiety (JVL recommends he just shave his head), Mike's son's first communion weekend, and a box-office roundup topped by The Devil Wears Prada 2 and Michael, with tangents into the Get Smart movie, Mel Brooks and Spaceballs (Sonny is a lifelong hater), and praise for Cody Rhodes as wrestling's shrewdest modern operator.
From the show notes
A documentary that is impossible to understand outside of the context of professional wrestling's particular storytelling lenses. Which makes it the perfect way to understand America as it exists in 2026.
Full transcript
Mike00:00:00Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast. I'm your co-host Mike Warren. Joininging me, as always, are my two co-hosts who always eat their vitamins and say their prayers. They train first. They train. Get the phrase right, Michael. Show some respect. And they and believe in themselves. Right. Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at Sub-Beacon dot com. Tell your friends and family to listen to the show at Sub-Beacon dot com. New episodes every Friday morning. We're going to be talking about. Well, I don't even remember the name of the actual Hulk Hogan. Real America. It's Doc. It's Hulk Hogan. Real American thing. The Netflix documentary about Hulk Hogan called Hulk Hogan. Real American. Later on in the show. But first, JVL, what's happening?
JVL00:01:01So one of the joys of having done this show for 25 years or however long it is that we've done it, is that like sure feels like we've we've gotten to become friends with people through the show. And so I have like real life friends, one of whom is Chris Haberman, who is an O.G. Sub-Beacon listener and substandard, probably substandard. And he and Ryan and that Swedish guy, what's his name? I forget. They started a spinoff podcast, which while they were doing it was actually like my favorite podcast. And anyway, Chris's dad just passed away yesterday, and it just guts me. And a lot of people from around. The Sub-Beacon expanded universe know Chris and uh, anyway, just everybody keep, keep the Haberman family in your prayers cuz they're awesome. The whole Haberman family is just fantastic.
Mike00:02:01So absolutely.
JVL00:02:02Well, we will, we love you guys. That's that's all. That's all I've got. I'm sorry. I don't have anything fun.
Mike00:02:09No, well, I, no, I appreciate it. JVL and you know, we have, we have had great listeners even before I was hosting. I, I know how, uh, uh, what, what a great kind of community. So, uh, Um, uh, thank you for, for mentioning that. And, uh, of course all of our thoughts and prayers as well, uh, to, uh, to the Habermas. Uh, Sonny, what is going on with you?
Sonny00:02:29Anything, nothing, uh, nothing great. I'll, I'll just say, um, I, I am not a fan of, I'm not a fan of, uh, I don't know, modernity. It's not my favorite thing. Sure.
JVL00:02:44Tell me more.
Sonny00:02:45So I, uh, no, I just, it's just one of these weird things. Uh, that has happened to me and I've like, I've gotten, uh, it's hard to, it's hard to explain without sounding like a complete fucking idiot, but the, uh, but the, you know, I went, I've discussed this on the show before when I, when I find somebody who cuts my hair and does a good job, I stay with that person as long as I can, to the extent that, to the extent that the last, uh, woman I had cutting my hair or I guess, second to last woman I had cutting my hair in, in Virginia slash DC, she, she died. And I literally like went to the, I went to the store to like make an appointment. You know, I went to the, the, the salon to make an appointment and her, her sister slash like co-business partner, like hustled me into a back room was like, oh my God, Sonny, I'm so sorry. She's dead. And I was like, what? This is, this is really, so will she be available next month? You know? Yeah. I was like, this is a real problem for me personally. Um, so, uh, but, but I, you know, in, in Dallas now I've, I've had two, uh, people who cut my hair. The first, the first moved out, like out of Dallas, but not too far out of Dallas, like 40 miles North of here. And I tried for like a month to like make an appointment with her that would work. And I was just like, I can't do it. It's too far. I can't, I can't get my hair done with
JVL00:04:12you anymore. What's that? Are you kidding? You were going to drive 40 miles in Texas, 40 miles
Sonny00:04:20is like 30 minutes. That's fine. Um, that that's not, it's not a big deal, but the, but the, but I would have, I would have done it. And it was just too much of a hassle. It was, I couldn't, I couldn't make appointments at good times. And then, and then like getting a haircut turns into like a half a day event, which, you know, one of the nice things now is you hop out for an hour, you're back at, you know, like, I don't have to like take time off, you know, it doesn't mess up my schedule. It doesn't. So, so I, I now have a new person who is cutting my hair and she moved from the salon. She had been in, which was like a, you know, a chain place. And one of the nice things, this is important is it's one of those chain places where you can go and you can book the appointment online and you go and you do. And that's great. I that's like my ideal situation is me interfacing with a computer as much as possible before I have to actually deal with
Mike00:05:10a person. Wait a second. You, but you, you hate modernity. So how is this? Well, I'm getting to,
Sonny00:05:14I'm getting to the most modern part of this. So she has since left this place. And now she has like her own little, she has a stand and like a, you know, in a salon suite, this is like the whole, this is the new thing. Like the, somebody rents a room in a salon suite and you know, they, they, they get to keep more of their money. It's great. I assume for them, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it, but it's very inconvenient for me because she no longer has the booking app thing. Right. So I have to like text her on my phone, like, Hey, are you available at this time? For an appointment. And she's like, no, but I could do, I can do this time. And I'm like, no, that doesn't work for me. What about, and it's like, it's like fucking dating. It's the worst. It's just absolutely terrible. And I hate it. And like, I, uh, I I'm, I'm it's so, it's so annoying that I am almost, I'm about to violate my core haircutting principle, which is just go find somebody else to do it. Cause I like, I can't deal with this. I can't, I can't deal with this. I just want, I want a website that I can go to and I can put in a time and I'm like, yes, this, I click this and I save it. And that's where I'm, that's where I'm going to be getting
JVL00:06:27my haircut. Is that too much to ask? This is all horrifying to me. And the amount of like personal relationship involved in all of this for just getting your fucking haircut is that here's what I say. My hair is dictated by what I can do using a pair of $19 clippers by myself. Well, you've got your own hair. You have different hair. You just, you know, buzz it off. You should adopt the same thing. Do you know how many hours a month you get back? I can't cut my, look at this. I can't cut this myself. Not in that specific style, but you're not going to just shave all my hair off. Why not? Because I
Sonny00:07:13like having hair. It's nice. It's, it's, it's sure. But if, if what the benefit of not having
JVL00:07:19hair is not having to speak to other human beings, I mean, it makes trade offs, persuasive case. Frankly, I'm just saying it seems obvious to me that the, if the cost of having hair is interacting with other human beings, it's not worth it. I guess that's fair. No, it's
Sonny00:07:36just, but it's one of these things where like my wife has to do the same thing. She has to like, she has a hairdresser, she has to text this person and they, you know, set up with the, and I'm just like, why is this what we have settled on as the, as the, I don't I don't, I don't like it. And I know there are people, I know there are people out there who are like, Oh, fancy pants, you gotta make an appointment. I just go to the hair cuttery
JVL00:07:57and tell the, tell the barber, put it on for, and they, it's all the meth addict. I go,
Sonny00:08:03I go down to the, I go around to the hobo stand and they do it for six bits and a pint of whiskey and like, okay, fine. But I, you know, uh, I, I, I, I mean, I have a small
Mike00:08:19barber shop that I go to and they do the online thing. It's they use square and, um, it's pretty straightforward. So I don't see what the problem is. Like you just shouldn't need to find a place that actually uses the online booking tool, which is what I have. And then, and then just be done with it.
JVL00:08:36I should just tell her, hey, just, just give up or could a barber shop serve the same function barber? Could you just show up to the nearest possible barber shop to you? There must be a barber shop within, I don't know, five minutes. Five minute drive of your house.
Sonny00:08:52I like having, again, I like having a regular person and I like, uh, I get that and I like, but, but I find that I, I, I don't, I don't, I like, you know what I like? I like having, uh, I like having a woman cut my hair. I like having like, I like big man hands all over your face. I just don't like that. I don't care for that. You don't like being touched by men. I don't want, I don't want someone who has a sign up that says like fades are our specialty next to his barber pole. You know, like, I just don't want it. Like none of that. I like, I just want, I want to be able to, I just want to, I think the
JVL00:09:27sign called man hands when she reaches across the table, he's wiping the thing. I was thinking
Sonny00:09:33about the male masseuse, uh, that same thing, but 100% same thing. I would, I like, I could not possibly, I got a massage from him at the, at the Los Angeles athletic club. In like a, there was like, I like had time to kill and there was a, there's like a, a nice, you know, sports massage area down there. Like Michael Douglas was staying in the hotel at this time. It was like, and so, uh, he was in the gym at the same, roughly the same time I was, I didn't see him, but he was anyway. So I like went down there to like get a massage and it was a guy and I was just like, uh, and he was like, get over here. I was like, okay, I guess we're doing this.
JVL00:10:17Was his name Scorpion?
Sonny00:10:19No, no, no. And he was, uh, I, I'm pretty sure, you know, it was not a sexual thing for him. He was just doing his, he was just doing his job, but it was, but it was very weird for me. It was, it was very uncomfortable for me. I didn't get a massage for like five years after that. I was just too scarred by it.
Mike00:10:37Um, yeah, I dunno. I mean, I just, I just think you've gotta, you've gotta exert just a little more effort, Sonny in the short term so that you can have less effort in the long term and you just gotta find a different place. That's all, that's all this really takes. That's all this really takes. Cause I'm with you. You still wind up in the same structural problem. No, you don't. You have somebody, you don't, you go to a place like until that person dies or moves or changes jobs, then you, then you find somebody else. Like it's not, it's not the end of the world. It's your hair. Like it'll grow back and solve this problem, which
JVL00:11:08is going down to a number four up top. Number two on the sides. Do it yourself.
Mike00:11:11Like we're, we're angel. We're the angel and devil on Sonny's shoulder. I don't know who was who, uh, actually. Uh, all right. Well, uh, I'm fine. We're, we, uh, a very exciting, um, weekend, uh, coming up for, uh, our house. My, uh, my eight year old is getting first communion first holy communion. Yes. Um, so we're very excited. We've got, um, you know, my mother-in-law is his godmother. So she's coming into town and staying with us and visiting and it'll be mother's day and all that stuff. It'll be very nice. And we'll go to the mass on Saturday and we'll have, we'll go out to dinner with the gods. Godparents are sorry, not, uh, to lunch afterward with the godparents. And, uh, and then we'll just roll in from there to, uh, do a little league game. So it's just, you know, but it's
JVL00:11:59very exciting. Uh, it could be better. I know it's in mother's day, little league. That's
Mike00:12:05the trifecta. He, he, uh, my, my eight year old's having to miss his little league game, which is at the same time. Um, but, uh, no, we're so well, we'll be playing the night game. So, um, no, it's, it's great. It's exciting. And it's, um, it's just one of those things where, you know, we always talk about as parents, like the passage of time and, and the way that you're sort of, well, at least I am very much brought up short by like how, how quickly it passes. I know that's like very cliche, but it's just these moments. You sort of like you, you sort of catch, catch me off guard a little bit. And so I was just thinking, I remember when my, when my oldest had his first communion, it doesn't seem that long ago and, and, and all that. And now it's like, you know, they're just, they're just charging on through and I, it's just, it, it, it's it's emotional for everybody. So it's a good thing. It's a good thing. The the best thing about it though, is that the the CCD Sunday school is over for them now. So, which is, which is just, I think the thing that my kids are most excited about is they, it's, it is, that is the biggest drag on their week, I think. Even though this, this CCD, like increasingly like treats are like a part of just the, just like the table stakes for every week of CCD. Like there's, you know, teachers are bringing in donuts and on the last, so this past Sunday was the last Sunday and it's in the afternoon. It's like, it's like right before the, the final Sunday mass. So kids who go to it can then roll right into sun to Sunday mass at, at six o'clock, whatever the final one is on Sunday. And they just had like a whole bunch of like ice cream novelties for the kids. Like, and this is after like multiple parties with candy and all this stuff. And it's just like, it's like, oh, the only thing they can do to like make kids want to go to, to Sunday school is just like fill them with sugar and and then we're left with the consequences. So everybody's glad that's over. That's that. Shall we move on to box office and talk about the number one movie at the box office this week, which is the devil wears Prada to the sequel to the movie that we discussed last week, uh, bringing in wow, 76, almost $77 million and it's opening weekend. And it's number one, as I said, uh, beating out Michael, which, uh, had a, not, not too bad of a drop, uh, in its second week, 44% is like, okay. Not great. Not, not terrible. Isn't it? Um, right. That's very 44 is very good. Okay. 44 is very good. I was thinking like 50% and more, right. Was like, it's like the danger zone or maybe not. Um, but, but it's, it's still doing gangbusters, $184 million total, uh, over two weekends, number three, the super Mario galaxy movie hanging on and number four project hail Mary, um, box office thoughts. Uh, the people, the, the, the, the moviegoers
Sonny00:15:12are hungry for the devil wears Prada too. Yeah. Yeah. It's not just that it made 70 $6 million, uh, domestically. I, it may, it has so far made almost a quarter billion dollars worldwide. It's basically made as much as the first film made in its entire worldwide run in this first five days of release. You know, we're taping this on Thursday, so that includes some, some, but not all Wednesday receipts. Um, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a pretty big kid. I mean, this was much more expensive than the first. I think it, it costs, it costs a lot more to make this one, uh, and distribute it. But it's, it's gonna, it's probably gonna earn that all that back without, without too much trouble. Um, it's a big hit. People were real excited for it. And, and again, audiences are, uh, audiences are hungry for stuff. I mean, it is, you know, the, the year, uh, the year to date, uh, box office, uh, this is the best year since COVID so far. Um, uh, it's well up over last year and certainly the two years ago. So it's because the movies
JVL00:16:16have all been so good.
Sonny00:16:18I, I mean, it's interesting because I do think there have been, there have been a fair number of pretty, uh, pretty good movies. Uh, I mean, project hail Mary is very, very good. Um, in particular, the super, super Mario galaxy is not, but you know, that whatever that is, I don't think the first one was particularly good either. And it, it also did. It also made, it made more money. Um, so, um, and Michael, which again, like I, I have my issues with Michael just as a piece of narrative storytelling, but it is absolutely a crowd pleasing sort of film. Like the, the fact that it is holding well is not surprising to me at all. 44% drop is very, very good. It will probably end up doing 300 to 350 somewhere in there. Um, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a big win for, uh, for Lionsgate. I, it may end up being their highest grossing movie of all time, like even more than the hunger games movies, any, any individual hunger games movie. Anyway, it'll, it'll be right up there.
JVL00:17:17Can I just, You said it has been a pretty good year for movies. I'm going to read down the list of the top 10 movies in domestic box office so far this year. You tell me how many of them are good. The super Mario galaxy movie. Good, bad. Oh, I haven't seen it, so it's bad. Project Hail Mary. Good. Good. Project Hail Mary. Good. Michael again, hoppers, Michael, Michael
Sonny00:17:45does exactly what it's supposed to do. And that is like it is good for what it is supposed to be. It just you know, I don't care for what
JVL00:17:52it is. Scream seven. Goat Devil Wears Prada to Wuthering Heights. Send help. Reminders of him. The drama. This is these are not good movies. One of these movies has been good.
Sonny00:18:08Yeah, the drama is good. The drama is good. Send help is good. You how many of these have
JVL00:18:13you even seen? Reminders of so in the ten. So in the ten of them, you would say send help. And Project Hail Mary are good. I would say let's see. There's 20%. No, but I mean, again, 20% at the top 10 of the box. So I'm saying they aren't making good movies. Well, regardless, people are going to them.
Sonny00:18:36You know why? Because there's a hunger, hunger for the movies. People, people demand filmed
JVL00:18:41entertainments. They want to go see filmed entertainments for the last 2436 months they can before. All the actual experiences go away.
Mike00:18:50Well, there's, there's certainly that, I mean, but there's also so much to look forward to, right? Like the odysseys coming up this summer, the new Christopher Nolan film, which was very exciting. Um, uh, the sheep detectives, another one detectives after we tape this
Sonny00:19:04so I can review it, uh, this week. And let me tell you the buzz on that one is through the, I'm like, not even joking. Wow. People are, people are like, people are raving about this movie. It is a delight that it, it, it is. It is good for ages six to 99, you know, people, people seem people it's like candy land, the, the board game, you know, all ages.
Mike00:19:28My kids are, my kids are talking about it, which is, which is notable that they're actually
Sonny00:19:31talking about a movie, but then they're talking about the sheep detectives. They, they like saw an ad for it and they thought it was, they saw it, they saw a trailer for it. They're like, Ooh, talking to animals. You know, it kills talking to animals. People love those
Mike00:19:42babe movies, but then there's, then there's all the cartoons, the Moana, uh, live action movie. I mean, you know, this is, that looks, but it's, it's gonna make, can I do a quick
JVL00:19:54brief aside here? I'm sorry. I, I should have mentioned this earlier. Public service announcement. We did a family movie last week. Get smart. The 2008 Peter Siegel, uh, Steve Carell, Anne Hathaway, the rock. Yeah. I don't know how this went under the radar. Absolute S tier family action comedy. Really? Hmm. Never would have imagined it was not prepared for that. Uh, again, just public service. If you have, again, anywhere from like ages eight through 80, you pop this
Mike00:20:40on and you're gonna have a good time there. Sorry. Did you, did you ever watch the, uh, the original TV show? Get smart. Yeah, I did. My kids have no idea. Right. Maxwell's smart. I just, I, I, we, we want, we watched to get smart all the time on Nick at night growing up. And I thought it was like the absolute funniest thing I'd ever seen. Yeah. And you know, I didn't quite appreciate that. It was like Mel Brooks involved and all that stuff, but like Don Adam. Oh,
JVL00:21:05great. So Brooks is a producer on this and I wondered how much he had to do with it because it's, it's very funny.
Mike00:21:13Well, I'm, I'm sure that maybe he did have something to do with it, but I'm sure that's just a part of the deal because he created the, the, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
JVL00:21:21Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it, it channels all the best part of that. Sorry. Go ahead. The
Sonny00:21:27real question is how much Mel Brooks had to do with the upcoming, uh, space balls sequel because he's very old. He's like 99. He's a hundred. He's, he's very, very old. And yet he is out there doing promo and stuff for it. Kind of. He's like doing film promo. He's not out there, you know, um,
Mike00:21:44Go see space balls.
Sonny00:21:47Um, uh, but I am curious, I am curious, like how much he actually is, how involved he actually is. I don't know. I honestly don't know if, yeah, I wonder if he plays yogurt or can I, can I say something that is gonna maybe offend? I've never liked space balls. I've never, I've never cared for it. Uh, like of the, of the classic Mel Brooks movies, that's one of my least favorites. Um, I, I, I never caught into it in any, I, I like, I prefer Robin hood men in tights. Um, by far, um, it just never, that's never worked. It's never worked for me. I, I can't, and I don't know, I feel like I'm on an island on this. I feel like everybody I know loves space balls and I just have never, I have never, never been a thing for me. I love space
Mike00:22:35balls. I mean, what, what can I say? Like it's, it's maybe it was the age that I first saw it and I just have a lot of nostalgia for, for that. But I, I don't know. I it's where they break the fourth wall and they're like watching the VHS of space balls, the movie. And like, they're like looking at the camera, like that killed me. That was like them. It was like, that was like a nuclear bomb going off. And I was like, Whoa, they
Sonny00:23:02can do that in a movie. You know, they can like, they can do that. That's funny. No, I don't know what it is. I just never, it's a little, I will say this. It's a little,
Mike00:23:11I watched it like sometime in the last five years we watched it. And I do feel like it's little more, um, winking at the audience than normal. Or it's like the, the, the, the winking at the audience is heightened even more so than in so many of other like Mel Brooks's movies. I, I do feel like it's, it's just, maybe it's a little too broad. So I
Sonny00:23:34don't know. That could be maybe anyway. All right. Well, sophisticated even as a eight year old, what is this pap? Uh, any other thoughts on the box office? No, no. Let's
Mike00:23:47move on then and talk about, cuz we, I think we have a lot to talk about, about Hulk Hogan, American hero. Is that right? Uh, real American. Real American. That's what it is. Sorry. Hulk Hogan, real American. I watched, I watched all four episodes. He doesn't know the catch
JVL00:24:03phrase. He doesn't know the name of the thing. I watched all four episodes. I loved it. I
Sonny00:24:07loved it. Fake, fake wrestling fan. Well, I named six world champions that aren't named Hulk Hogan, Mike. Uh, ultimate warrior.
JVL00:24:16Is that what now? Um, are you high in lowest? Because you're making me laugh. All right.
Mike00:24:23Got it. Okay. Uh, so let's talk about this. Uh, do you wanna give us a review Sonny of this four part documentary series? Hulk Hogan, real American. I think this is an impossible
Sonny00:24:35product to review in any real, in any way of like it's, it's, it's a talking head documentary and like talking head documentaries are what they are. It's a bunch of archival footage.
Mike00:24:46New interviews. Um, it's officially sanctioned. Uh, well this is, and this is, so this is
Sonny00:24:52the thing is it's impossible to discuss this film in anything other than professional wrestling terms because the whole thing is, it's the whole thing is what is it? It's a work, right? JBL. This is a worked shoot. It's a work shoot. So the, the, the thing is it is an, it is officially, so it's a Netflix film. It's officially sanctioned by the WWE. Um, which is a partner of, you know, uh, Netflix. Now they are airing Monday night raw and it's, it's like a big part of their, their portfolio. Um, and, and as a result, this is no different from say the VHS tapes that they would put out that are like a history of Bret Hart or whatever. And it's, and it's interesting because I mentioned Bret Hart specifically because the very few times anybody. Seems to be saying anything close to something truthful. It's Bret Hart kind of sneering into the camera being like, I hate this guy, but that's also the role he plays in the WWE ecosystem. Now, like his role is now I'm the Montreal screw job guy. I'm the truth teller. And as such, it's, it's, it's, again, it's impossible to discuss this thing as anything other than an official document of WWE. History. And that in and of itself is interesting. That in and of itself is kind of interesting. You know, there is not much about Vince McMahon in this. There's very little about Vince McMahon
JVL00:26:26doesn't appear on camera until the very end. So there, they have an interview clip with him,
Sonny00:26:33but it's done audio only. It's audio only. And I, I assumed that is probably an archive interview. I assume not new. I assume that's not new. I would guess, but I don't, I don't know for sure. They don't say, but it's but I would, I would guess it wasn't new. Anyway, the, the, my point is like, this is not, this is not a, this is even more than most documentaries and you, we could get into giant theoretical arguments about what is a documentary and what is the nature of reality, blah, blah, blah. Even more than most filmed documentaries. This is a, this is a product that is designed to promulgate a very specific, narrative and the narrative that it is putting forward is one about Hulk Hogan as the central figure of American life from 1980 to about 2025. And that is, and this is, and this is, this is a narrative. I personally find I have, I lend a lot of credence to, I think that I don't think JBL and I are very much in agreement on this, I think, but I don't think you can understand life without understanding wrestling and the role it has played. I mean, to the extent that there's an interview with Donald Trump that was filmed in the white house, maybe the oval office, I think it was the oval office. I don't know, but it's certainly in the white house where he's talking about his good friend, Hulk Hogan. And, and, and it just is like, it's such a, it's such a bizarre mind blowing thing, but also it makes perfect sense. Also, cannot understand Donald Trump and what he is and what he represents without understanding professional wrestling. And this is why I mean, triple H was in the, in the oval office, like two or three weeks ago, like, yeah, like Linda McMahon's in the cabinet. Yes. You know, like she doesn't appear on this. You know what? There's no images of in this is Linda McMahon being humiliated by Vince McMahon in one of the many attitude era bits. Um, you know, there, there is, there is a, there is a very, there is a very specific whitewashing of like the things Hulk Hogan said that got him fired from the WWE for three years or whatever, however long he was, you know, forced to, forced to, you know, live in exile. Um, there is no real discussion of there is, there's very little discussion. I'll say there's very little discussion of, um, the, the whole WCW. Angle of it all, except as a means of him, you know, becoming him, like getting out of a WWF for a little while and then getting back into it. I just, I find the whole thing is the whole thing is weird. The, the reality TV stuff is kind of glossed over. Um, his like there's, he has three wives, by the way, we only hear about two, get a lot with wife, one, get a lot with wife, three wife, two is literally never mentioned in, in the literally never mentioned. In the film, which I found fascinating. Cause I like, I looked up cause I was curious when he married this, who I thought was his second wife. And it turns out he was the third. I was like, wait, there's like 10 years where he's married to somebody else. And this is just not, not here at all. Um, so it's, it's all fascinating, but again, I like, I do not think you can understand America without understanding professional wrestling and the role it has played in the media and elsewhere. And this is why I devoted the last 400 words or so of my obituary of Ted Turner, to the WCW, because I think you could make, you could make a, you could make an argument that, that through the creation of CNN and it's 24 hour news environment, and also him pumping money and resources into the WCW, which created a conflict with the WWF that the WWF responded to by getting incredibly vulgar and like destroying the culture for 10 years. Um, without those two things, Donald Trump is not president. Yeah. I think, and yes, and, and, and it's, and it's, that's, and that's bizarre. That is fucking weird. That is a weird thing. And I think that this, this documentary, this, this whole four hour documentary that is a tribute to Hulk Hogan and has some like kind of interesting stuff about his background, whatever I things I didn't know about his childhood and, you know, his, his, his early professional wrestling years, whatever this, none of, none of that really matters. What matters is this is the story we are telling about the world and the world is the world that Hulk Hogan and wrestling has created for us. We are all living in it. And that, that, that is fucking terrifying. Yeah. But also
Mike00:31:37true. It's like, well, JV, I'll go ahead. I actually would like to go to you first, Michael, because I
JVL00:31:45think you come into this less read in than any of us on professional wrestling. Yeah. But the true,
Mike00:31:54not, not, yeah, but neophyte, but no, but I mean, I mean my, my, my introduction into wrestling was WCW, uh, and, and the whole period that, that where Hulk Hogan is Hollywood Hogan and, uh, the NWO, the Wolf pack, all of that stuff. Um, that was my sort of entry and frankly exit from entry into an exit from professional wrestling. But, um, like Hulk Hogan, you know, supersedes so much of that as well. Like I knew of Hulk Hogan before I knew, uh, before I was watching wrestling and, you know, he, he was somebody that was around in my, in my brain and sort of in, in my vantage, uh, zone after I was watching wrestling because of Hogan knows best because of just the fact that
JVL00:32:51he was just, he was just saturated is the kind of cultural figure that nobody in America can tell
Mike00:32:59you the first time they saw 100%. Like, was it, was it one of those Hulk dolls, which were ubiquitous? Um, was it, yeah, was it always there? The whole cartoon you were, you were,
Sonny00:33:13you were too young for this, Mike, but like the, the WWF cartoon was very much a part of like, when I was five or six Saturday morning TV on NBC.
Mike00:33:23Yeah. Um, all the mo it's funny, the one, one of the movies that they did not mention of the many bad movies that, that Hulk made was, um, was the, uh, a three ninjas sequel, uh, three ninjas take magic mountain or something like that, where Hulk is like, and it's like, it's like the, at a theme park and it's got like the roller coaster, behind him and Hulk's like break. He's like, ah, right on the, on the, on the box. And it's got the, the three ninjas kicking. Um, anyway, it, it's just, he, he was just, he was just ubiquitous in whether or not I was paying attention to wrestling. So like the fact that like he was showing up, um, in, on wrestling matches on, on TNT, like WCW was like, it was like, oh yeah, that's, that's Hulk Hogan. I know he's there or that's Hollywood Hogan. That was like a big deal. It was like, he's not Hulk Hogan anymore. He's all Hollywood Hogan. Uh, he changed his name. He changed his name. Can you believe that? Um, it, it was just, it, it was interesting to see, to, to learn, like I intellectually knew about his previous iteration, you know, the original iteration in the WWF. Um, but it was interesting to see just how much the good guy, Hulk Hogan character, like how that was so dominant and how that was so like, for so many people that is, that is the character. Um, because again, my, my impression of him is he's bigger than that. And also to the extent that he is a character, he's the bad guy and he's, you know, he's got, uh, the, you know, the black shortcut beard and the black bandana. Um, and he's, he's going to Hollywood. Like all that pointing is not good guy stuff. It's bad, bad guy stuff, just all of that was. So it was interesting to sort of get a picture. And I think it explained to me a little bit, having been in the 20, uh, 24 Republican national convention hall when, when Hulk came out and like the experience that I had, which was like, this is ridiculous. And understanding that for a lot of people, like a lot of like gen X people, like it was like, it was like the end of the storyline for, you know, and that, I think I got a greater appreciation of watching this documentary, just the way that he was somebody else for those people.
Sonny00:35:49And he was somebody different from it. No, this is, this is, I wrote, I wrote about this at the time. Um, because everybody was, you know, most commentators were very sneering about whole being there and you know, it's gauche and it's low class and like, fine, that's all true. Like you can, you, but you know what it is, you know what it represented to a not in substantial number of people between the ages of 38 and 65. Hey, remember when things were good? Yep. Remember, do you remember the 19? Do you remember the 1980s and the 1990s when you were happy and young and like that, that is, that is what he is. That is what he is other things as well, but he is more than anything else. A kind of symbol of an earlier era of personal happiness and fulfillment. It would, it would be
Mike00:36:44as if, I don't know, uh, Beaver Cleaver walked out at the 1980 Republican convention as like, uh, like remember the fifties, remember how great that was. And like it had that, like. Hulk is a character, but, and, and, and that's, that's the role he was playing anyway.
Sonny00:37:04And it's funny. It's, it's funny when Mitt Romney tried to do this with Clint Eastwood and it didn't work because Clint Eastwood is not that figure. Clint Eastwood is a very different figure. He is like, yeah, he's like, do you remember dirty Harry? Do
JVL00:37:14you remember how awful everything was? Well, yeah. Well, there's that. So there's that like,
Sonny00:37:18right. He represents, he represents like this kind of like scuzzy era of America. He was cleaning up, but he's also not, he also wasn't the same sort of aspirational figure. He wasn't like, I don't know. I it's, it's hard to describe, but he was, he's just different. He was an authority figure. He was, he was not, uh, an aspirational figure. And there, those are two very different
Mike00:37:41things. That's right. That's a, that's a, that's a good, that's a good distinction. Um, but I, I feel like we're making the documentary seem like it's, I mean, I would say the end of the documentary is obviously very focused on, on what happened in the last essentially year and a half of his life with the politics and, uh, and, and, and Trump and all that stuff. But I mean, so much of it was one thing that was just so fascinating to me is, was the discussion of his relationship with the other wrestlers. And you, you hinted at this Sonny with like the, like Brett, Brett, the hit man heart is like clearly not a fan, uh, clearly has, there's no, no love loss there. Uh, and it's, and, and, and maybe some of it's a work, but I think a lot of it's just real as well. Oh, I can speak to that. It was, it was like Isaiah. It was like
Sonny00:38:32Isaiah Thomas on the, on the Michael Jordan doc JBL before, before we get to that though, JBL, you know, there was one other very notable omission and that was Shawn Michaels. There was no Shawn Michaels in this, which I found fascinating. Yeah.
JVL00:38:49Uh, so I did not watch the final episode, so I only, I only watched the first three, so maybe I'm wrong, but not just Shawn Michaels. Um, no Ric Flair, no Ric Flair, no undertaker, no. And these are all people who are very big characters in Mr. McMahon. And so here, I, I think you can't event evaluate the whole Cogan documentary without pairing it with the, the Mr. McMahon documentary, which was just last year, also on Netflix also just has shared a lot of s a lot of interviews. I think some of the interviews from this wind up in that, or at least he was wearing the same outfit in some of the interviews that he shows up in, in Mr. McMahon. Um, a lot of the same characters like Cody Rose and Bruce Prichard. Yep. But not all of them. And here's what I want to propose to you. The Mr. McMahon documentary was what we call in wrestling a straight shoot, which is to say that it was, it was off the reservation. It was not what the powers that be would have wanted to happen. This got out sort of as an accident because it didn't process for years before Netflix got in bed with WWE and it comes out like right after the partnership is struck. This is a worked shoot done after the straight shoot trying to use the straight shoots authenticity to play itself off as being also a straight shoot when it's not. So, so it is, it is a whitewash along a lot of different levels, but it's using the thing that, that the Mr. McMahon documentary did to try to create an alibi for it. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah. So, uh, all of that said, you can still learn a bunch of things about Hulk Hogan from this that you might not have known. Now I would say this is a weird thing. I knew almost every single thing in this before. I mean, not everything. Like I did not know that Hulk's first WWF match was in Madison square garden was with Ted DiBiase. That's great. Um, but a lot of it is, but first I have a question about, do you think they used AI recreations of some of the early training sessions in the dungeon in Florida? Because there are a couple of scenes supposedly of training bits and they just don't a, I, I don't know that there would have been film on that and be, it just feels a little bit wrong visually.
Sonny00:42:01I, uh, I found myself wondering something along those lines, how much of this is legit or has possibly been like run through some upscaling filters. Maybe they had like snippets of eight millimeter footage or something, you know? Okay.
JVL00:42:20Well, interesting about that. Um, so Hulk Hogan is almost too big to judge, just as Sonny says, a historical figure. You haven't even mentioned Peter Thiel, right? I mean, the, the impact that American politics, which is barely in this barely meant I like, again, this is, this is a
Sonny00:42:39thing you could do a whole documentary. You could write a whole people have written whole books just about this. Right. And it gets like 10 seconds of mention. And that's, you know, Hogan is an
JVL00:42:49integral part of that. Um, but Hogan is a Hogan is a villain. He is a heel. And what is, what is reveal? I think that's unintentionally revealed by the documentary. So I, I think this is the, you know, in its, in its attempt to paint a picture for the audience, Yeah. the negative space, which is left actually is what tells you the truth. And so as a, for instance, um, we don't see a lot of his contemporaries who aren't hangers on. So we get like Jimmy Hart, who is a hanger, a lot of Jimmy Hart, lot of the mouth of the south, but Jimmy Hart was not Jimmy Hart was just slimming along swimming in slipstream his entire life. And this is a thing that you noticed if you watched wrestling back during that time, you noticed that there were a lot of really bad wrestlers and they got pushed really, really hard. Like Brutus, the barber beefcake, the honky tonk man, nasty boys, the nasty boys, skags. And I forget the other one knobs, knobs and skags. And it was always sort of like inexplicable. Like why are these guys getting like we have re we have Ricky, the dream, the steamboat dragon, right? We have all sorts of, uh, like great talent. Why are these? And the answer is because Hogan had his own coterie of hangers on. Sure. And he pushed them. He pushed his buddies over everybody else and he threw his weight around in the booking. And he alludes to it a little bit about he could, you know, he could I could cut a guy down brother. Um, but he did that all the time, right? To the detriment of the program and the company, because he had to be kept happy because he was the franchise and the other guys in the locker room hated him. Like the, the real wrestlers, the, the real talent in the locker room hated him. And worse than that, Hogan was integral in keeping everybody's wages down. And this is, you know, very, very famously Jesse Ventura tried to organize a union. The WWF was crying out for unionization because the working conditions are absolutely fucking horrible. And it was basically a monopoly. And, uh, they were gonna do a strike, uh, the, the morning of WrestleMania. I think it was the first WrestleMania. Yeah. The very first WrestleMania and Hogan went and snitched to Vince. Right. And so Vince came into the locker room very famously and was like, anybody wants to do that? That's fine. I'll fire your ass. You'll never work. And so they, they chickened out. They didn't do this strike. If they'd done it, it almost certainly would have worked. But Hogan was like, I make more than everybody else. Fuck this. I'm not gonna take a pay cut. So he didn't. And that's the thing again, he did it all underhanded. Like he was, he didn't do it above board. He just like snitched and then pretended to be totally cool. Um, he lies a bout all of the, the steroid stuff he placed. You notice that unlike the Mr. McMahon documentary, this glosses over the fact that he was telling the feds one thing about what he was gonna testify and then did a separate, a different thing. Right. Um, and you get the sense that he and Vince really deserved each other like that. Yeah. It makes sense that they would have this symbiotic relationship. And it was also inevitable that they would part ways absolutely hating each other because they're both terrible human beings. And the weird tragedy of Hogan is that I don't think it had to go like this. Um, follow me here a little bit. Sure. There is the, you know, we are the masks we wear and Hogan was basically a kid trying to make good. Yeah. You know, and married really young, and he's sort of a family guy ish in as much as you can be a family guy while basically being a rock and roll star, which is what he was. Um, but then when he becomes a heel because he doesn't want to leave the spotlight, that really does seem to change him. And this is when like he loses his marriage. Right. You know, and winds up estranged from his daughter. Who is also not in the
Sonny00:47:41documentary. Because they're estranged.
JVL00:47:43They're estranged. Right. Yeah. You know, the sun is all over, but yeah, the sun is. So Nick is the only one mentioned to the will. Um, and Brooke who had kids. Yeah. And Hogan died, never meeting his grandchildren. Wow. Yeah. Like that is some dark, dark shit. And it coincides again when he makes his heel turn, I feel like the kayfabe just kind of takes over his life. And so a guy who was basically a good kid, but who just, you know, had too much access to stuff and you know, wasn't, wasn't an angel, but was always a little venal and walking the edge between like tipping over into the shadow side. Once he starts pretending to be it, he really does just
Mike00:48:34go all the way. And that's, that's pretty, that's pretty dark. I think, I think the text of the doc gets pretty close to just coming out and saying that. Um, and which kind of surprised me a couple of times, you know, it kind of gets to that point where I think somebody even says something about, um, about sort of believing, right. What, what, believing your own, uh, stick or your own, uh, storyline. Um, and the, the, the subtext of it that, I mean, that's just the only conclusion you can draw, right. JVL you're absolutely right. That, that that he is, he, he starts believing he is Hulk Hogan. He is the character and it's like, it's, it's so incredibly depressing to watch, uh, when, from where the series begins with him on top of
Sonny00:49:31the world. Well, JBL, you, you didn't watch, so you didn't see the last episode. So you didn't see his last appearance at the W in the WWE, which is, you know, there's a show, there's a Monday night raw show in Los Angeles. This is after, um, this is after the, the convention, but maybe before the election, I forget what the, the explicit timeline is here, but he is like, he's like Donald Trump's guy and he goes and he's booed. He's like roundly booed. People are furious. You know, there, nobody, nobody likes him there. And he's not doing, he's not in a heel phase in the, he's not coming out as Hollywood Hulk Hogan. He's coming out and doing the, you know, ears and the, he's, you know, flexing and doing the, you know, Mr. Mr. Olympia and stuff. It, it, by the way, it was on Netflix. This was,
Mike00:50:17it was on Netflix. Yeah. Yeah. This was like the first time that raw was on Netflix.
Sonny00:50:21Yeah. And so this is, this is a really key moment in the documentary because you have Jimmy Hart saying to the camera, um, you know, uh, Jim, Jimmy Hart saying to the camera, like, we're going to Los Angeles. They're gonna, you know, I don't, I don't know about this. And then you have Hulk Hogan saying to the camera, like, and then Jimmy was telling me, no, everybody was cheering for you, man. And Hulk's like, uh, I don't know. And, and, and you have, uh, you have triple H who's like, yeah, he got booed out of the building. Uh, he got booed out of the building. And then we go back to Hogan who was like, that was the greatest. That was one of the greatest performances of my career. He says something to this effect. He's like, one, I was getting so much heat, man. I could show up at that building two weeks later and sell it out because they hated me so much. And it's one of these, it's one of these things where he clearly does not. I, well, I take this back. I take this back. I think he does understand that he is genuinely hated and not in a wrestling sort of way. Um, but he can't process that in any terms except for rest. He can't discuss it in any terms other than wrestling. He like only can understand this in terms of heat versus, you know, uh, getting, getting cheered as a baby face. Like it is, it is, it's, it's, it is fascinatingly psychotic. That's the only way the world works.
JVL00:51:50Right. The real question is, is he wrong? Is he, is he wrong? I mean, yes and no. Right. I mean, a lot of social dynamics function that way, but it isn't the way the real world world works. Right. I mean, Vladimir Putin does not have heat. He's waging an actual war with actual people in an actual country. You know what I mean? Like the real world does exist and whatever the culture
Mike00:52:12of is. And even in a small way, right? Like, uh, he's not like his daughter cut herself off from him in the real world, in the real world, right? Like they don't, they don't go backstage and she's like, oh, dad, wasn't that, wasn't that great? How I, you know, how, how I hated you. It's like, it's, it's, it's real on the small and big scale. Sorry. Yeah, no, it's, uh,
JVL00:52:37it's wild. Now there's some other interesting nuggets in here for people who don't, for people who don't understand wrestling. Um, there is some interesting lessons about like who gets to be the champion because the championship belt is not like who is the best wrestler, right? It's not even who is the biggest star. That's not quite it either. Um, so I gotta, I gotta go back and, and to, to talk about this a little bit. William Goldman, great screenwriter, wrote a fantastic book about being a judge at con and a judge in the Miss America pageant in the same year. And he explained the Miss America pageant in ways which are perfect. He said, what you have to understand is that none of the stuff that they do matters. Like the swimsuit competition, the talent competition, all of those things are absolutely immaterial. Everything, just think of it as the entire competition is a job interview for the job of being Miss America. And when the judges are talking to these girls, what they're looking for is who can go out and do the job of being Miss America the best way. And when you think of it that way, that you're actually choosing somebody to travel around the country for a year and give speeches and be on television, and stuff like that. Everything is very, very like it makes all of a sudden it makes perfect sense. Totally. And that is how professional wrestling heavyweight champions are chosen in the modern era. It didn't used to be that way. It used to be that you needed somebody who could draw, who could get people to show up and be in the seats. And so that's why a guy like Ric Flair could be a champion because he was just so good at what he did drawing. Sure. But in a nationalized context where everything is about. Schedules and programming and merchandise sales and all that stuff. You need a corporate champion, a guy who can actually do the job of sharing. This is why John Cena was such a fantastic champion, even though wrestling fans kind of had a love hate relationship with him because he was so boring and so predictable, but it's also Hulk Hogan was the first of these. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Hogan was the guy who created that template and he was a train wreck in some ways, like he was doing drugs and drinking all the time and all that. But he was a reliable worker. You know, he was a guy who understood I have to do 15 media hits a day because that's my job. My job is going on live with Regis and Kathy Lee and being charming. My job is then showing up on a local spot, right? And it's never being it's never being high or drunk when you're there. It's getting to do your hit to go to your hit time when you're supposed to be there. There and being able to do all the things that one needs to do to carry the business. And this is another thing. I don't know if you guys clocked much of Cody Rhodes. Yeah. Cody Rhodes is going to be around wrestling for a very long time because that dude gets it. Yeah, that was very clear that dude gets it and in a way, but by the way, did you guys catch? I was trying to explain. So I watched the first episode with G money and he G money loves Cody Rhodes. I've talked to him about dusty roads before, but he'd never seen dusty roads. Early in the first episode, they show you some dusty roads. Oh yeah. And G money like takes the remote clicks pause and goes, what is that? Like, cuz dusty roads is this huge fat slob with the curly hair, Jerry curl. It's like a, a Southern white man, Jerry curl. And he speaks with the lisp and he's like almost like a gay list. Yep. And he's like shimmying. And I gave, he, he was like, what is going on here? That was a, that was right. I was like, buddy, not only was that wrestling, but people went crazy for that. His mind was blown. He didn't understand how that could be.
Sonny00:57:01He was, he was like the, he was the announcer on WCW when I was watching WCW and then on WWF, right? He was a WWE. He was a, I don't think dusty was ever not WWE. I can't remember. I don't think so. He was, he was the guy and he was the booker
JVL00:57:19for a long time. Anyway, but Cody Rhodes is one of the smartest guys about the business
Sonny00:57:23I've ever seen. He's like a triple H level. Well, I was going to say he is, he is the triple H of that generation. He's like, he's the guy who does not, he does not have it to become a movie star, like a John Cena or a Dwayne Johnson. That is not his, his path. His path is very much in wrestling. That's what he does. And he, I dunno if people
JVL00:57:46know his backstory. So he was brought into wrestling with a crew of, uh, a crew of third generation guys. And it was him. It was Randy Orton, cowboy Bob Orton's kid. And who was
Sonny00:58:01the third? I don't remember. I remember Randy Orton. Yeah, there was a third one in the,
JVL00:58:05the legacy. I think it was with anyone anyway. And Cody was the underdeveloped third wheel of this who washed out. And what he did was he took himself onto the indie circuit and like he, he saw social media coming very early and was like, no, I'm gonna build an indie circuit, personal following, I'm gonna build a brand around a character that I create here and make it big enough that WWE has to take me back. And he did it. Yeah. It was just
Mike00:58:40fascinating. That's right. Tad DiBiase.
JVL00:58:42Yeah. Tad DiBiase. Tad DiBiase.
Sonny00:58:43Oh, that's right. Tad DiBiase's kid. Oh yeah.
JVL00:58:47So I just, yeah, I think the world of Cody Rhodes, I think he's great.
Mike00:58:51He was also in, he had a cameo in the new naked gun movie.
JVL00:58:54He did. He did. And he's in, he's in the next street fighter movie. So there's another street fighter movie coming. Yeah. Which honestly looks amazing.
Sonny00:59:05Sure. I'm just saying. That and Mortal Kombat two, they both look pretty entertaining.
JVL00:59:11So do you guys have any, any thoughts or questions about wrestling or anything like that?
Mike00:59:20I have a couple of random thoughts. I thought it was very funny how they kept referring to the WWE, even when they were referring to a time when it was the WWF. It just, I just thought that was a very, um, it was on brand brand management. Um, you know, or it
Sonny00:59:39is fascinating. I have, I've always been amused by it. Amused by this because you know, WWF doesn't get rid of WWF until 2001 or 2002, I think. Um, and so like, I mean, it's been WWE for probably twice as about the same, I guess a little longer. It's been WWE than WWF, but the, but they religiously and to the extent that they will, I can't remember if they do it in this, I think they just cropped it out, but they will like blur out the WWF symbol. Well, I'm sure that's part of the settlement.
JVL01:00:09Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember. They did a brand campaign about the change. Do you remember this? Mm. Not really. Their campaign was get the F out. It's because it's the hard attitude era. Attitude. It was, that's right. This is the heart of the attitude era. And so that's how they decided they were gonna massage that.
Mike01:00:29Yeah. Um, okay. A couple of other thoughts. Uh, so, uh, uh, what's her name? Uh, his, his first wife, uh. Linda. Uh, Linda. Yeah. I thought it was Linda. Um, She's great. She's, she's fantastic. And like, just, I, I, I I fucked a giant. It was like, I was like, oh, this is gonna be that kind of interview, huh? Um, it was, it was something else. Um, and you know, like I know that th that, you know, all this stuff is selective and, and all that sort of thing, but gosh, I just left this document or feeling awful for her. And, uh, what she went through, because it seemed to me that she did, she tried to do what she could to maintain some kind of family. And it, it, it, it's, it was always going to be messed up because it's whole Kogan and he's a rock star as you say, JBL. But at the same time, I, there's something about her, like the sh like the, not so candid, but candid, you know, home videos of, of them. I, I could just see somebody like trying to put in the effort and, and then Hulk coming in and kind of at, at, at those moments, at those holidays or whatever, sort of like playing the part and then increasingly just not a part of it. And I just, I felt bad for her. Maybe I'm a sucker. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm being conned here. Maybe that's, that's a work.
JVL01:02:04No, I think so. She was never a character. Right. Right. Which is, is the important thing. Unlike Linda McMahon. Yeah. And unlike a lot of wrestling lives, especially once women started wrestling. Right. At which point you got a lot of intermarriage between like women wrestlers and guy wrestlers. Um, Linda was never a character. And so she was just always got to be herself. There is no kayfabe with her. Correct. And so she is
Mike01:02:28Well, until she went on
JVL01:02:29She's a mark. reality show. Yeah. Right. No, that's right. She's a mark. She's a mark. You're right. You know, and I think she's a smart mark, but she's still a mark. She's not a sharp. And, uh, I don't know. I, I have a lot of affection for her. I thought she'd been basically, you know, it was like a, this is what life was like in America in the late seventies, early eighties. And she was just a crazy girl trying to make things work. Yes. And, uh, I don't, you know, I, I, I wish her all the best. Also her lack of bitterness on all of this is saint-like.
Mike01:03:00I mean, I'm sure there's a lot. I think she, I
JVL01:03:04Sure. But everybody's always, you know, she hadn't wanted for money in a long time. Right. Yeah.
Mike01:03:10Yeah. That's true. Uh, any other thoughts, Sonny about, uh, about the stock or what we, what we learned or didn't learn? Nope. Um, all right. Uh, well, I guess that is all the time we are going to give this episode join us over at sub beacon.com. Tell your friends and family, leave a comment, uh, about your favorite Hulk Hogan memory. And we will talk to you next time.
Sonny01:03:40I mean, one of, one of the reasons they don't have a lot of, uh, discussions with Hogan's contemporaries and something that is very noticeably not addressed in the film is how many of them are dead. You know, like there's so many that are just dead, uh, which is, you know, um, is, is what it is. I mean, Roddy Piper, Randy Savage, like just dead. They're all dead. Um, the, the other thing that is very funny, uh, is Eric Bischoff who I, I find Bischoff to be. I have a fascinating character. Um, but the, the thing that really jumped out this time and my, my wife mentioned this and I, I, it was funny. Like when Eric Bischoff was on WCW, you know, he was like the creative director and he was also on the show and he was doing the announcing and like, but he was just like a normal guy, just a, just a normal guy, just normal looking guy. And he wore his leather jacket and he had his haircut. You look at him now and it's like, he's Mr. Roids, like he is roided out. Like his veins are popping out. He was, he was in the back. Like he's probably like squeezing balls in his hands to get his veins on his forearms to pop up. Like it's, it's, he looks like a, he looks
JVL01:04:48like a freak. There's a weird duality of, so they show Hogan in the gym, like now in the gym before he died. Right. And he's still benching a lot of weight, curling a lot of weight. He's got like huge biceps. He's still got veins popping out of everywhere, but he needs a cane to walk and he needs help. He says like, I gotta get Nick to open my water bottles for me. Yeah. That's a weird, that's a weird
Mike01:05:16thing, brother. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, I would've liked more on the WC. Again, this is like, you know, I was all into, uh, diamond Dallas page and Goldberg and sting. And I loved all of that, like era and, and, and, you know, I guess, I guess Hulk like does, like he blots out the sun for, for those, uh, and, and, and WWE doesn't really care
Sonny01:05:40uh, about WCW folds like four years after, or I guess, what is it? Six years after he shows up, he shows up in 95, 94, something like that. It folds in 2001, 2002. Right, right, right, right, right. You know, it gets folded into the WWE. Like it's, it's bought by Vince McMahon for a song. Um, after all the money, I know, but like those, those stories,
Mike01:06:02like it was, again, it was my vantage point, but I loved all of that stuff and the Wolf
JVL01:06:08pack. Yes. Scott Hall. Yes. The invasion was amazing. Kevin, the Kevin Nash. Scott Hall was amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike01:06:15Anyway, um, uh, they'll have to do a WCW documentary now that, that, uh, Ted Turner's died just to, uh, or they'll incorporate it into the big tender. I'm sure it'll be fine.
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