#350. The Best Breads, Ranked
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This is a "zag" bonus episode built around Katie Heaney's (referred to by the hosts, slightly mangled, as "Katie Weaver") sprawling Atlantic piece on the best free restaurant bread in America, which all three hosts rave about as a tour de force of long-form food journalism — JVL calls it award-worthy and "not a word or sentence out of place," Sonny loves its score-settling (LeBron's people stonewalling her, Red Lobster's CEO narcing on her to comms) and its Frank-Sinatra-Has-a-Cold-style approach to a subject that won't cooperate, and Mike highlights its unexpectedly poignant turn and its thesis that "nothing tastes as good as free costs." Before getting to bread, the show opens with the usual long banter stretch: muddy-field practice-cancellation debates, JVL recounting showing his son G-Money the delightfully cheesy 1971 Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla, a tangent on Gen-Z's surprising Twin Peaks obsession, Mike's glowing account of taking his two older boys to a freezing, funnel-cake-fueled Nationals–Braves game, and a box-office detour into the upcoming Michael Jackson biopic Michael, which Sonny reports sanitizes away the Jordan Chandler allegations entirely and is tracking for a record-breaking $70 million opening. The back half is a three-round snake draft of favorite breads: JVL takes the cranberry-walnut bread from Philadelphia's Parc (the Atlantic piece's own pick for best in America), then cornbread, then church-communion-adjacent buttermilk biscuits; Mike drafts garlic-onion focaccia, the rolls from the defunct chain O'Charley's, and his wife's homemade sourdough; and Sonny goes with BLT Steak's popovers, the now-defunct Smith & Wollensky's crocked bread, and — over JVL's mild objection that it's not a "destination" food — the Cheesecake Factory's brown baguette. They close by asking listeners to weigh in on who won the draft, with a coda riff on pretzel bread's underwhelming reality versus its promise.
From the show notes
Lots going on this week. If you want to read the piece we discussed, you can read it here . Free link!
Full transcript
Mike00:00:00Welcome to the Sub-Beacon podcast. I'm your co-host, Mike Warren. Joining me are my two co-hosts who are always going to get that bread. Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at Sub-Beacon.com. Tell your friends and family if they want to listen to this show. They've got to do it at Sub-Beacon.com. New episodes every Friday at Sub-Beacon.com. Join the Sub-Beacon podcast. Join the conversation in the comments at Sub-Beacon.com. We are going to be talking about bread later. Bread in the show. I'm excited for this episode. Yeah, it's a little bit of a zag. I love it. You know, shake things up a little bit. That's what I said. Zag, right? But first, let's hear what is going on with everybody. Sonny, why don't I start with you?
Sonny00:01:00Um, what is going on with me? I have I, you know, I kind of want to reserve my time for box office talk because I want to I want to discuss I want to discuss what's about to happen with this Michael Jackson movie, because I assume we're not going to do the we probably are not going to see the Michael Jackson movie and discuss it on the show. I would assume I would assume. But please, God, no. But I but it's I have the last Michael Jackson movie I saw. Well, you you are you are. You're missing out, my friend. You're missing out on all the great Michael Jackson hotness in this. It's it's coming. It's going to be a big hit. I want to talk about that. But we can save that for box office. The the only other thing the only other thing I would say as we prepare for dudes chatting here is that it's been it's been raining a lot in Dallas. And one of the one of the dads of the soccer team was like, we should still have a practice and get all muddy. And everyone was like, no, we don't. We don't want to do that. And I'm just I'm curious. I'm curious. As as sporting parents yourself, if somebody ever said if you are ever given a chance to cancel a practice, have you ever said, no, we should definitely still do the practice? Because I can't. It's never happened before. Never happened before.
Mike00:02:20I as a coach, I have absolutely pushed for practice. I probably talked about on the show about how we missed so many practices. For basketball this past winter for my team because of holidays, days off of school because we use the school gyms. And and so I'm always like, if we can get it in. But basketball is different because it's like indoors. And so the conditions are such that like you basically can't.
Sonny00:02:51The doors have to be wet and muddy. Totally.
Mike00:02:55And like with baseball, JBL, you may have thoughts on this, but like it's not good. It's not good for the field to practice in in real rain, not like little sprinkles, but like real rain. So like I don't really push, you know, I'm I'm like if they want to cancel practice because the fields are too muddy. Fine. Great. Now. Now. Yeah, that's like that's one thing off my schedule. And, you know, the kids don't have muddy uniforms or you can't get the mud out because it's it's like too wet or something. I don't know. JBL.
JVL00:03:30Your thoughts mean practice practice. I should have said game, not a game practice. I not only would I get absolutely cranky if some coach was like, oh, we got to get this practice in. I would get cranky if umpires wouldn't can't call games in rain like the minute I started feeling dropped. I'd be like, hey. Hey, blue, blue, blue, we're going to call this one, you know, because we don't want to stand outside in the rain. We don't want to have the cleaning of trying to get all of the cleaning, the uniforms, the dirt that gets into the car when they get into the car with the cleats in the nightmare. But it's an absolute nightmare. That said, one of my fondest memories of. Uh, varsity baseball for flash was when he was a freshman, they had a game. It was like fall ball and it started raining and it got ludicrous. Like it was one of those things where at first, for the first thing, you're like, come on, blue, let's call this thing. And he just kept going. And then it got so ridiculous. Like you couldn't see, I mean, it was nuts finally calls the game, but then wouldn't did a delay. He was like, oh. I'm looking at the weather app. Uh, we might get like, it's fall ball. It's fall ball. This doesn't count. Just get in the two kids, the two kids, the kids from these two teams all came out onto the field together and started like doing slides and all look, cause you know, these were all mostly like 16 to 18 year olds. And they all of a sudden started acting like six, six to eight year olds. And it was, it was. Very charming to say charming.
Sonny00:05:31That's memorable once that's charming once charming once they ever did that again, they'd be walking home. That's a, yeah.
JVL00:05:40So, uh, I, I really hate, maybe it's different by sport, but I, like, I feel like soccer is the same as baseball in that way. Like you're standing out on a field, everybody's getting muddy and grass stains and stuff. Like the parents are there too.
Mike00:05:54Well, I will say football is not that way. Like football is like rain or shine. Sure. They're practicing, they're getting muddy. They're doing, uh, you know, they're not, they're not canceling the second half of two days.
JVL00:06:06Um, I don't know. Like at the peewee version of football. Is that, is that true?
Mike00:06:11Um, probably not, probably not at that lower level, but I just have memories of my brother, uh, playing football. And like, if it was raining, like practice was on, there was no, you know, they have a practice field and they have a game field.
JVL00:06:26So I think school, yeah, I would understand that. But again, if we're talking like. 10 year old pop Warner or whatever they call rec football, same thing you're outside. You're asking parents to stand around in the rain because that's the real thing shows where it's not about the kids. It's about the parents. We're the ones who are dragged into this shit and paid for it all. Yeah. Paid for the privilege.
Sonny00:06:50Okay, good. I wasn't because I was like, I was looking at this text message and I was just like, man, what are you doing? Why, why, what are you? I.
JVL00:07:00Had like, oh, look at the big hero. Yeah. Got to get that less way to be there. Iron man.
Sonny00:07:08I just was like, uh, anyway, I'm glad I'm glad I'm not, I'm not totally insane here. All right.
Mike00:07:13No, no, you're, you're, you're not. Um, all right. Thank you, Sonny. Uh, JVL what's going on.
JVL00:07:18All right. So, uh, G money requested to watch one of the old Godzilla movies. Cause he loves the, the monster universe and it's not called the monster. You know, whatever the universal, I think they call it the monster verse. Is it a monster or maybe it's one monster. I don't know.
Mike00:07:35Oh, it's one of the universal monsters is different, right? That's like, yeah.
JVL00:07:39Yeah. You know, Dracula.
Sonny00:07:40That's the RIP Tom Cruise is the mummy.
JVL00:07:45So, uh, he was like, I want to watch one of the old ones. Uh, I said, okay, but it's going to be really different. First of all, they're all in Japanese. And so either dubbed or subtitled and second, like it's a, it's, it's, it's different. And he was like, I want to see it. I want to. So we pull up 1971's Godzilla versus Mechagodzilla, first appearance of Mechagodzilla, the first 50 minutes of it. And he could not believe what the fuck was going on. There is a scene in which early on Mechagodzilla, who is disguised as Godzilla. I don't know if you guys remember that. That's right. Yes. But in the 1971 version of this Mechagodzilla is originally wearing a Godzilla suit to try to fool the earthlings.
Sonny00:08:29So it's a man. It's a man in a Mechagodzilla suit with a Godzilla suit on top of that.
JVL00:08:35No, not really. I think he's just in the Godzilla suit. But there is a where he has gotten into a fight with one of the other monsters who is normally Godzilla's friend. And after dispatching him, Godzilla does this.
Mike00:08:52He brushes, brushes off the dust off of his chest because he wrecked the whole
JVL00:08:59thing is so bananas. And like when when Godzilla is attacking a boat, they just have a little toy boat like floating in a paddling pool. Right. He steps on. He came. G Money just looks at it. He's like, what is happening? Is that CGI? That's the weirdest CGI I've ever seen. It's like, no, no, son. That is a Japanese man in a big rubber suit.
Sonny00:09:25That's a toy boat and a tub.
Mike00:09:29I don't know enough about everything with the original runs of the Godzilla movies. But I mean, my sense is that like that portion, the 70s portion, you're kind of getting in the same boat, so to speak, as like where we were with the 007 movies in the 70s, where like they were getting even cheesier. They were getting sort of like like the camp was was turned up a couple of Godzilla is
JVL00:09:59the Moonraker of Godzillas. Right?
Mike00:10:02Yeah, that's right. No, it's it's it's the one it's the one where the where you know, like like the car going over the bridge. Well, they're aliens with that with that with the with what was that James Bond movie where where they jump over the bridge and there's literally like a slide whistle.
JVL00:10:19So by Mechagodzilla, Godzilla is fighting the zillions, which are a race of aliens who who are humanoid, but they wear silver jumpsuits. Their boss spoke cigars on his spaceship. And you have conversation in a no oxygen environment or all oxygen. They have conversations such as you must arrest. I guess this only really works with the dub, but you know, arrest that scientist. He specializes in alien technologies because there is on earth as one does a scientist who specializes in alien technology and his parents, his parents said, you'll never, you'll
Mike00:11:11never get a job.
JVL00:11:12He goes one day, one day there is, there is a, they pick up a, when they find a clue, they pick up a piece of space titanium and they say, this is space titanium. Oh, this is space titanium. And uh, and the whole thing is. It's all on the max. Sure. I would say give yourself, don't, you don't have to watch the whole thing, but give yourself 40 minutes to just sort of see what this time capsule of the world used to look like. Yeah. The cheese.
Sonny00:11:44Wow. Yeah. I wouldn't. So it's interesting because I, I don't, I don't have a great grasp on the history of Godzilla films in the sense of like understanding precisely what was going on. But if you go back and when you watch the original Godzilla, the original Gojira in, in Japanese and the Jap in the original Japanese, because remember the version American saw was much different. It was, you know, it was, uh, it not just dubbed, but there were scenes with Americans inserted. Like it was just an entirely different movie that Americans saw. Um, the original Gojira is actually like, like kind of poignant and it's like a, it's like a real meditation on nuclear destruction and blah, blah, blah. And like the, the, the actual, um, the actual end of the film is again, like very, you know, like it's serious. It's a serious movie.
JVL00:12:39Jaws was a serious movie too, by Jaws three.
Sonny00:12:42Well, and so this is, and so my question then would be, was it the success of Godzilla in America that added all of the like crazier elements that kind of pushed Godzilla towards this? Or is this just like a natural result of, uh, like a series about monsters going on for more than like, uh, two movies, like, is this just gonna, is this just gonna be what happens if you, if you make that sort of movie into a series?
Mike00:13:12I'm sure it has nothing to do with, uh, Japan's own, you know, very, uh, not weird culture as well. Uh, having, you know, it's, it's all the American influence, right?
JVL00:13:22This is the demand of the marketplace, right? I mean, you, you, you make a thing. And it's incredibly popular and it becomes a cultural touchstone so that there is close to infinite demand for more of the thing. And so they're making these Godzilla movies once every 12 months and these are coming
Mike00:13:39out every year, right?
JVL00:13:41It is, it, it is not a series in the way that Jaws was a series. It's a, it's not even a series in the way that James Bond was a series. It's, it's a series in the way I, I don't even know what other analog there is. Right. Uh, it's just, there, there's like 30 of these things, you know, it's like, it's an, it's
Mike00:13:57almost like an annual television special, but it, we don't even have that in, in America.
JVL00:14:02Yeah. So, uh, like, can you do that without it becoming camp?
Sonny00:14:07I don't think so. No, probably not. There, there was also, there was also like the function, there's a function of like, people want, people wanted Godzilla to be the hero. They liked Godzilla. Right. And so like Godzilla needed to be the hero. Well, if Godzilla is the hero, then who is he fighting when he's fighting other monsters? Other monsters. From the monsters. And then it gets, then it just gets silly. I mean, come on. You can have a serious movie about men fighting Godzilla, but once Godzilla starts fighting other Godzillas, things are gonna get ridiculous. Yeah.
JVL00:14:35Once you, once you got. And the monster's blowing him and it's very strange.
Sonny00:14:39Woo. Uh, did you watch the dubbed or the subtitled version?
JVL00:14:44Subtitled. And that is, I honestly, I wish they had had dubbing because I think it would have been more authentic.
Sonny00:14:50Do they not have the dubbed version from the, it was only subtitled?
JVL00:14:53I, I, I just picked the one that was there. Right. To go and purchase. You know, I, I'm sure if I spent more than 30 seconds, I could have figured this out, but I experienced all of these movies through the dubbed versions as they were being rebroadcast on TV, UHF channels of my youth. Right. So these are classic like Sunday afternoon on UHF in 1977, you're getting a Godzilla movie from 1970 or 1968, which has been just dubbed and thrown on and stuff full of commercials.
Sonny00:15:26And you know, if you're eight years old, that's a little slice of heaven.
JVL00:15:31Sure.
Mike00:15:32So, by the way, by the way, it's interesting. I was just kind of doing some very quick, uh, on the, uh, on the fly research on this. The second Godzilla movie is what introduces the like other big monster. Yeah. It's like, it, it, it does not take, it does not take long. Like it's basically immediately after the first one was like, well, it's called Godzilla raids again. Um, and although the Japanese, uh, title is literally translated to Godzilla's counter attack and it is, uh, uh, basically return of the return of the Kaiju, uh, it was the third one. Um, but it's like, there's like this like dinosaur monster that he fights. It's like his ancient foe. And so like it, it, like immediately, isn't he already a dinosaur monster? Well, sorry, it's like a, um, uh, like, uh, uh, uh, a four legged dinosaur monster.
Sonny00:16:33That's like, it's like a triceratops or a stegosaurus, something like that.
Mike00:16:36Uh, it's, it looks kind of, I don't even know what it looks like, Mike. It's a, it's, uh, it's Anguirus or Anguirus Anguirus Anguirus. Wow. So that's anyway, that's my on the fly, uh, research there.
JVL00:16:51That was my culture for the, for the week. I, uh, I heartily recommend. Just doing a small experiment of this with your children, just to see what their reactions are to how we used to live in this world.
Sonny00:17:04This is, I, it is interesting because I do wonder if this sort of thing just disappears as like, it gets so far into the past and so far out of date. Cause I mean, we, like, again, we grew up with this because it was on TV like, or the, or the, um, what is it? The, the claymation, like, uh. Uh, odyssey, like Jason and the Argonauts. Right. Is that, does that just disappear into, into the ether as we get more used to like proper, you know, real, real looking things in movies.
Mike00:17:42I think it's less about that and it's more about the ubiquity of these things. Like I've been thinking about the way in which, uh, people up through people, my age and even a little younger. Like we, all of us had the Looney Tunes as like a common language, not because we were all going to the movie theater and watching at the Warner theater and watching the Warner brothers shorts before the movies. It's because they were rebroadcast on TV and like, you just, they were just on TV. And I, I think everything from like, you know, cable classic action films to these kinds of, uh, cultural things. I didn't watch Godzilla movies regularly. It was like, they were just in the ether in a way that you couldn't escape it because it was just there. And now it's all, you know, it's all pick and choose, it's all cafeteria. And um, like, unless you do what JVL did and like actively go choose and find it and show your kids, it's just not in the, it's not in the air that they breathe. And that's why it will go away.
JVL00:18:51A lot of it also has to do with streamlined IP rights, right? I mean, there, there's a. There's a clear chain of custody for the IP for Godzilla. And so those things will always be available in an age of streaming, uh, other things where there is not a clear chain of IP custody or the, especially things that like with music rights, which I think is why, so for instance, um, uh, what was the David Lynch twin peaks and peaks as a, as a series, which I think could have caught on like wildfire during like pandemic time, if that had been streaming. On Hulu twin peaks is essentially impossible to find because you're wrong.
Sonny00:19:30You're, you're totally, this is, this is actually JBL. You're wrong on this. And I know this because I am, I'm very plugged in with the youths on film Twitter and they fucking love twin peaks. Yeah. They like, there was a huge twin peaks resurgence.
JVL00:19:42The original, the first episode is gone. No, you have to start from like episode two.
Sonny00:19:49I think, well, I, I, I don't know about that, but the, but I'm just, I'm just telling you that like the kids. It's like, it's like a weird performative thing. They are super into twin peaks. And like part of this was, remember there was, there was a, uh, uh, a, a new season that came out during either right before or during the pandemic.
Mike00:20:08I feel it was like right before the pandemic. It was right before the pandemic.
Sonny00:20:10There was like a, a new season on Showtime that like, again, was like, I brought back Kyle McLaughlin and all these fucking film Twitter letterbox nerds were like having arguments about like, does this, is this TV show a movie was a swear to God. A fucking argument for like a year straight. Is this TV show a movie?
JVL00:20:28Well, no, I stand corrected.
Sonny00:20:30It's a TV show. It's it, but like, no, well, you're right though. You're right though. That like the kids are like super into it. Um, and, and I find it and I find it fascinating because I've tried to rewatch it and I find it inscrutable and boring. I do not understand the twin peaks phenomenon. That's interesting at all. I don't, I don't get it. And I like weird stuff. I like X-Files. I watched a couple episodes of Erie, Indiana. Do you remember your Mike where you might be too young for Erie, Indiana?
Mike00:21:00I remember, I remember Erie, Indiana. I didn't watch it regularly, but I was aware of it.
Sonny00:21:06And was it, it was probably on syndication by the time you were, you were, it was probably on like Fox family or something like that.
Mike00:21:12I think it was on, it was, but it was on, it was on the Fox network, right? Wasn't it?
Sonny00:21:15Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike00:21:16Yeah. I distinctly remember Erie.
Sonny00:21:18Or no, it was NBC. It was NBC. So I watched a couple episodes on Peacock cause it was back on anyway. Uh, but, but no, JVL, you're right. Like the kids love the kids. They like, they're totally into it. Um, and it's, it's fascinating to me cause I am still like, I just don't get it. I don't get it at all. I've never gotten David Lynch.
JVL00:21:35I derailed this whole thing. We have bread to talk about. We haven't even heard from Mike. So I'm sorry. I apologize for this. No, all good.
Mike00:21:43All good. It's down a rabbit hole. Michael. Uh, I'm fine. I had a, certainly for me, a top five dad moment this earlier this week, uh, all five. And I think it was like a top 10 moment for my kids as well. Um, if not top five, uh, and it was, it was simple. It was like not, it was, it was nothing, nothing seemingly out of the ordinary or special, but
Sonny00:22:08turned on Hulu and Twin Peaks was right there.
Mike00:22:10Yes. No, by the way, I will derail this right now and say like, well, we watched Twin Peaks like right when we got married, like we just like kind of like, we watched it cause it was on Netflix at the time. And, uh, Uh, and, uh, and we liked it, but of course it falls off in the second season. Like once they reveal, uh, who killed, uh, who killed her, like it's, it's like, they don't know what to do. Um, all right. So, uh, all we did was, so on Tuesday there was an election in Virginia and so all the schools were closed and, uh, it was, um, uh, and, and, and so like Monday night was sort of this like free night. We didn't have any, uh, baseball games. We didn't have any practice. We didn't have any, whatever. And so I, uh, took my two older boys to see, uh, the Atlanta Braves were in town, uh, are in town in, in DC. I'm going to go take them to see the, uh, uh, them play the nationals. And I did not anticipate when I had originally bought the tickets that it would be like in the forties in DC, but it was, um, and which was fine. You know, they have these things called coats and jackets, uh, that you can wear. Um, kids, this is what it's like in the playoffs. When it's October, uh, my, my, uh, my, my, my coworker, uh, uh, had been living in Colorado at the time that he went to see, uh, the Braves and the Rockies play in what is like, I think the coldest recorded regular season, uh, baseball game ever. And, uh, it was like 23 degrees. Um, and, uh, it was not that cold, uh, this, uh, this particular game, but it was a little chilly. Um, but, uh. Um, it was just, you know, Hey, we're just going to go to this game. We're going to see it. Like, uh, the Nats kind of stink this season. The Braves were actually really good. Um, and so let's go see, uh, this game. It's a little chilly. Um, I spent like $12 a ticket. So we were like way up in the 400, you know, nosebleed section, but kind of looking right
JVL00:24:14over home plate five degrees colder up that altitude. Oh, one, at least. I mean, the wind blowing through there.
Mike00:24:20It's oof, oof. Um. We had the absolute best time from the moment we got on the Metro train to go into DC from our suburban, uh, uh, you know, uh, suburban, uh, lives in, uh, in, uh, in Northern Virginia, like to the moment we got home, like everything about it was fantastic that my middle son had actually does not remember ever riding the Metro train. So this was like a huge thrill for him. Um, we, we take the Metro in, uh, we get there about 30 minutes before game time before first pitch. And, uh, by the way, so my middle son, my eight year old, uh, in classic, like contrarian, he's a classic contrarian. He decides because his older brother is such a vocal Atlanta Braves fan. He's going to be a nationals fan. So he wears his like Max Scherzer nationals Jersey and, uh, his, his ball cap. And uh, we get there, you like walk into the center. Field gate. And there's like those seats that are kind of behind left, left center field. Um, and you can kind of just like, you like kind of walk up to it and you looking out of the field. And as soon as he walks up to it, the guy with the camera, like finds him, runs over to him, gets right in his face and puts him up on the jumbotron. And like, it was like the biggest thrill of his life. He was like huge smile. He was having a great time. Uh, we went up to our seats, we're having a, we're just having a blast. We got hot dogs and, and all, you know, they each got a soda. It was great. We were watching this game. It was exciting. It was kind of a back and forth. What's going to happen. We saw Matt Olson hit a home run. That was really thrilling. Um, we were really high up. It was cold. Uh, but like at a certain point, I think one of my sons was like, I don't even feel cold anymore. Like they're just like, so into it.
JVL00:26:17So happy hypothermia.
Mike00:26:21Move your fingers, move your fingers. Um, and then, you know, it's like the seventh inning, nobody is there. Nobody is at this ballpark. It's like a miserable night and the Nats are miserable. So then we're just like, oh, let's go down. Let's go down and get a funnel cake. Cause we could see people had funnel cakes and I was like, you know what, fuck it. Let's get two funnel cakes. So we got two funnel cakes. Oh yeah. It was, it was off the chains. They're just like in hog heaven. Uh, we go back essentially to the S the place. Where we started, nobody cared at that point, we're gonna sit down at those seats much closer behind left field to see, uh, Mike Yastrzemski, uh, former, former Vanderbilt Commodore, uh, you know, playing, uh, playing in left field. Um, and, uh, we're sitting there and they're doing one of those pitching change, uh, you know, play music, everybody get up and dance, you know, during the, uh, pitching change sort of moment. And I, I love that my kids are still, even my 11 year old is still at the age where like, if there's like loud music playing, like, and people saying, get up and dance, like they just get up and dance. Like they have no, they have no self doubt about that. It's just like, yeah, it's time to get up and dance. So they're doing that. And then the camera once again finds them. So like they're on the, they're on the Jumbotron for a second time. It's like, wow, that's so cool. Um, and, uh, and then by the end of the game, one of the workers came by, uh, and again, finding, finding, uh, uh, Joe, uh, with the, with the Scherzer Jersey hands him a foul ball that, you know, when, when, you know, hands him a foul ball, uh, that he has. And like, it is like, it is like from one high to the next, just one after the other, after the other. And it was, I was just like, this is the greatest thing ever. You know, there's all people can all, you know, write about how, and, uh, you know, this sort of over the top, you know, baseball, what it means, all this stuff. It's just. It's just all those stupid little things that are just so much fun. And, uh, and we're still talking about it. Like days later, we had a great time.
JVL00:28:28Uh, and I, I was never forget that. And yes, and, uh, remember that night.
Mike00:28:35100%. And, uh, the last thing I'll say about it is this was for you. No, this was not my idea at all. This was, this was like, you need to take them to see a game. They don't have school the next day. And so, uh, all, all credit to her. So there we go. Anyway, shall we move on? Let's move on. Let's talk about the book. Oh, no, sorry. We got to talk about box office first. JVL quiet, relax, calm down. Box office thoughts. Super Mario galaxy movie remains number one at the box office project. Hail Mary number two. Uh, and then Lee Cronin's the mummy coming in and that's first week at, at a far below, uh, the other two at number three, not that far below. The project Hail Mary it's, it's all kind of petered out, uh, those two big movies, uh, any box office thoughts?
Sonny00:29:26No, I mean, it, the project Hail Mary doing, you know, a 15% drop and it's fifth weekend is, is pretty good. That movie, that movie has done well for itself. Good for it. Um, I know I, I want to, I want to just, uh, talk about this Michael Jackson movie real quick because it is. So the, the, the tracking numbers that are, that are online right now for this movie are suggesting a $70 million opening weekend, which would be the biggest musical biopic opening of all time. Um, which is not in and of itself surprising because you know, Michael Jackson remains one of the, one of the big, you know, the, the biggest pop star of all time, but it's, it's, I saw the movie last night with a paying audience. First of all, they were fucking into it. They were, they were like, they loved this. They were there dressed up in with their gloves and they had their concert teas on. They were into this, they were into Michael Jackson.
JVL00:30:20They had their, their chimp pets.
Sonny00:30:22They had their bubbles and their young friends, little, little dolls. Uh, so the, so this, this movie, it has an audience is what I'm saying. It like, it's going to be, it's going to be a big hit and I'm, I'm kind of fascinated by just what, what all this means, because I do think there is. So I sh I think you have to acknowledge that there is a, there's a racial valence to this in the, like, you just have to like the, the audience was large. It's a, it's a black. Audience. They, they, uh, treat the, the, uh, accusations against Michael much as certain segments of the population treat the accusations against OJ Simpson. Like really, I did not realize that. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's and this was literally, so this is the director's Antoine Fuqua, who in an interview with the New Yorker in discussing the film said, you know, people do things for money and that's where the accusations against Michael came anyway. So the, the movie itself is the movie itself is fascinating because it's really, it really is just, it's a very strange movie because it's just Michael Jackson being awesome for like two hours and like a series of performances and that's it. That's the movie. It's just like Michael Jackson is awesome. His dad's kind of mean, everybody loves him except his dad. Who's very mean, but Michael Jackson does songs and he does dances and he's great.
JVL00:31:45And he, and he goes Superbowl halftime show.
Sonny00:31:47They don't have that. Um, but he goes to hospitals and he says hi to the children and he's always very nice to the kids. He signs autographs for them and he's, he's, he's constantly, he's constantly with the children, but only to be nice with them in hospitals. Nothing else, nothing else. So this, it's a very weird movie and it ends. So it's bookended with, uh, a performance on the bad tour in London. So like he, it like, so the movie stops in 1987, I think, or 87
JVL00:32:19or 87 or yeah, it's like, it stops. Nothing else happened. Is it like Dune at the end? Do they do Michael Jackson part one?
Sonny00:32:28No. Yes. Yes. No, they do. They do. There's a, there's a title card at the end. There's a title card at the end that says his story continues. And I was just like, I was like, okay, this is, this is bizarre, but I knew all this was going to happen because I've been following. So Matt Bellini has been writing about this for almost two years now for like year and a half, at least about the, the, the Odyssey of this film, which they shot. So they shot the whole film and as they were, as they were going through the editing process, somebody realized they could, they legally could not release the film they had shot. Would you like to know why they could not release the film that they had shot gentlemen rights to the music? Well, no, they had rights to the music. This is a movie. So this movie was made in concert with the family and the executor of the estate, John Bronx. Bronca, I think is his name. Um, uh, who has played in this, the, the, uh, just as an aside, the executor of the estate, uh, this, this, uh, guy, this producer, John Bronca, it was MJ's real life lawyer and agent who is played in the movie by miles Teller at like the peak of him being like cool miles Teller. It's like, he's like the cool guy in the movie. He's like the most, it's the most amazing bit of vanity casting I've ever seen. It'd be like, it would be like, it'd be like me casting Tom Cruise as me.
Mike00:33:52You're like, yeah, Tom and starring Tom Cruise fucking nails it.
Sonny00:33:56He's a smart dude anyway. Okay. So, so they could not, they could not, it's because of the, because
Mike00:34:03they probably had something in there about the allegations.
Sonny00:34:06They, so, so the, uh, so what happened was they went, they went somebody somewhere, watch the film and was like, wait, we can't release this. And they were like, why, why can't we release it? And they said, well, we can't. We can't release it because we signed an agreement with the, the, the family of 13 year old Jordan Chandler at the time. And in the agreement, we paid $20 million. And we also agreed that we would never, the family would never dramatize these events in a film. Here is how the original script treated. I'm just going to read you from the Matt Bellany email. The script begins. Jackson ends during the 1993 investigation into statements about Jackson's anatomy made by Jordan Chandler, the then 13 year old boy whose molestation claim led to worldwide headlines in an eventual, eventual $20 million settlement. The script depicts Jackson as the naive victim of the money grubbing Chandler's whose unfounded claims forced Jackson to endure ridicule and persecution until he ultimately settles his resolve and reputation forever in tatters. Turns out you can't release that after you sign a statement saying you're not going to make a movie about the events that you're, you're saying, you know, anyway. Um, so there was, so instead the film totally ignores and it like, it never comes up, it never comes up and like, it's a fascinating thing because what I just read to you is evil in a, in a, in a, in a real way. Like I, like that is, that is, I don't like to describe films as evil. That's a kind of evil thing to put out there, but at least it's interesting and has a narrative arc. The movie now is just like, Michael Jackson's great. Everybody loves him. Mean dad, but he, Michael Jackson's so great. Nothing bad ever. Nothing. 1987 we're done. I saw somebody joke on Twitter. This is like making a movie about Roman Polanski surviving the Holocaust, uh, losing his wife and then storming to triumph with Chinatown and then just ending the film there. Like it's the same thing. I'm, I'm I am, I like, I find the whole thing incredible. I find the whole thing incredible. Uh, so anyway, that's my, the movie is going to be an enormous hit. It's going to do Bohemian Rhapsody numbers and that movie made $900 million or something. So like it's, it's, it's going to be, it's going to be very big people. Still, there's a real segment of the American people who still very much like Michael Jackson and they're going to show up for this movie and they're going to fucking sing along with the songs and they're going to dance in the hills. If the screening I was at last night is any indication, it's a real interesting thing. JVL slash rant.
JVL00:36:57Isn't it obvious from the very start that if you wanted to make a commercially successful movie about Michael Jackson, you should simply pretend that none of those things happened. The idea that the script was going to tackle these things and try to alibi Jackson seems insane to me because that limits your commercial
Sonny00:37:15appeal. Well, so yeah, so they were, they wanted to do, they basically crazy thing for them to have done. I, I, I totally agree with you. I, I, I totally agree with you. They wanted, they, but this is why the, the, the movie as it was envisioned by John Branca, I guess, and the family was to be like this essential defense, like essentially rewriting the history here to be like, they wanted that and not to
JVL00:37:39make money. Right. Like they didn't, their, their commercial desires for the picture were secondary to the computational or, or, or
Mike00:37:47they are so diluted and in their own bubble that they don't see, they don't see the conflict in what you just described, right? Like we will tell the
Sonny00:37:59true story and everybody will love it. As I, as I, as I alluded to earlier, there is a large segment of the population that is really in the Michael Jackson got set up and shaken down by these kids. That's also a downer
JVL00:38:17that story, even if you believe it, that's it. That story is a downer. Michael Jackson is awesome. Let's sing his awesome songs. That's a winner.
Mike00:38:24Totally. I, I, I totally agree with you. I just think that like, there's a lot of, there's lots of levels of delusion going on in this fair. Anyway,
Sonny00:38:32all this, so that's, that's my, that's, uh, I just, I just wanted to, I wanted to give everybody a heads up on that one. If you're thinking about seeing Michael, that's, uh, that's what you're in for. All right. Well,
Mike00:38:43um, we will not be discussing that movie apparently on this, on this show. Um, Michael, tell them about the bread. Tell the people. So we have, we, we have, we're doing something a little different here at the Sub-Beacon. We are going to be talking about bread and specifically, uh, we are going to base this off of what I think is one of the best and most hilarious and actually like out loud, laugh inducing pieces that I have read, uh, in.
JVL00:39:17A non lay bash division.
Mike00:39:19Correct. Well, obviously we're leaving that. Okay. So that's a, that's a, that's a, the category that's been retired. Um, okay. This is all clear. Yes. This is, uh, this is a piece in the Atlantic by Katie Weaver, uh, in which she endeavors to tell us the reader over the course of like 4,000 words, uh, what, what is 15,000 words? Sorry, sorry. Sorry. It's, it's, it, I, I, I underestimated it, uh, because I was having such a good time reading it. Uh, uh, the best free bread at a, at, at an American restaurant. Um, so it is, that is what it purports to tell us. It is an odyssey, a journey through her discovery of the answer to that question, uh, as well as a, uh, you know, uh, a, a contemplation of the very concept of free bread, uh, at a restaurant. And, uh, I mean, I don't know what you guys thought about it. It was a tour de force, not since Katie Weaver's 20. Oh my gosh. What was it like 2014? Uh, great work for Gawker in which she sat in a TGI Fridays, uh, and, uh, for, for, for something like 24 hours, 24 hours of apps in which she basically ate, uh, mozzarella sticks, you know, a single and a single hours long limitless apps or something. Yeah. It was like limitless apps. And as long as you like, as long as you kept eating them, you could keep, you could keep doing it for whatever, you know, and the one initial cost was, uh, I have not laughed that hard at like a food based bit of journalism since then. And she's done it here again with bread. Um, I don't know. I mean, this is, it, it, it is a tour de force is fantastic. I loved it. I don't know what you guys, I don't know what you guys thought about it, but I think it prompted us to think we should talk about bread. We should talk about free bread and maybe we should have a bread draft.
Sonny00:41:26Maybe a bread draft, but I just, I would just like to talk about the journalism of it. JVL, you go first cause I want to look some, I'm trying to find a passage from this piece. JVL your thoughts.
JVL00:41:36It is the difficult, the degree of difficulty on the execution of this is I would say impossible to understand if you are not, if you are not somebody who has ever practiced long form journalism. She has done the subject she has is so open-ended that you could just get lost in it. Yes. She is doing all of the cliched parts of this where she's doing a little bit of road reporting. She's doing a little bit of like talking to the experts, talking to the experts. She's doing a little bit of history. Like remember we had the book like, fault a history, right? The whole thing. Like there is a section of this, which is bred a history, which you, you know, is going to be in a piece like this.
Mike00:42:24There's the etymology stuff she does. Yeah.
JVL00:42:26There's the etymology stuff. Um, and there's the turn where all of a sudden, you know, she tells a personal story. All of those things happen and they are all say they're the cliches of the form is not correct, but those are just like, it's like saying that like, you know, plays have to have three acts, like, you know, a beginning, a piece like this has to happen. And her execution of it is absolutely perfect. There is not a word or a sentence or a paragraph out of place anywhere. Uh, it is just a magnificent piece of writing. And the kind of thing that makes you sit back and say, this, this happens very rarely to me. I sit back and I say, boy, I could not have done that.
Mike00:43:12Yeah.
JVL00:43:13Um, like this is, this is really, really good. This is top shelf. This is just hand her the national magazine award for this year. Totally.
Mike00:43:22Okay. Without spoiling the end. Cause I, I do think like the payoff is like, it pays off in a way that, but it pays off in a way that was, uh, truly unexpected. Like he, like it caught me off guard and, um, and all of a sudden I felt red lobster. Totally. Totally. And, and, and, and, and the, and the return to, well, I won't even spoil, but it's like when, when she goes to, uh, to Philadelphia, like all of it is like, it makes you think like she has been tricking me over the course of this into thinking that she is just, uh, a very talented, but, but goofball writer and reporter. And no, actually she's, um, she's so much better than that. So Sonny, your thoughts.
Sonny00:44:11The, this piece really captures, um, in addition to everything, that you guys highlight here, the piece really captures the frustration of trying to write something without the aid of the people you need to be writing about. So like, she's, she's like, so like this is, this is, again, it's a very journal lists and it's like, it's a thing that writers have to deal with all the time. Like we want to write a story and we need to talk to a person or to an entity and they don't have any reason to talk to us and thus don't. And so she, this happens on several, several occasions in the piece where she's trying to get, she's just asking like random celebrities for their favorite, for their favorite breads. And none of them, except for Stephen King, get back to her. And like she, and she's, and like there, she asked like LeBron James's people, like what's his favorite bread. And they're like, he can't possibly answer this. He's too focused on basketball right now. And then like three hours later, he tweets something like, yo, these YouTube shorts, I can't stop watching them. And it's just like, that's the most, that's the thing that happens to all of, that's the thing, that has happened to every single one of us at one point or another.
JVL00:45:19But that she torches them like that is so satisfying.
Sonny00:45:22Yes. And that is, well, that's the other, that's the other thing that is so, one of the reasons writers enjoy this so much is because there's a lot of score settling. The only person who she doesn't settle, she doesn't name the celebrity. Ashley,
JVL00:45:36doesn't she say, she says her first name. Well, she says her first name.
Sonny00:45:38The celebrity publicist who she hates. The publicist who she hates. But there, there's a lot of that, but it's also like, she can't, she can't get like the Olive Garden, or not the Olive Garden, the, the cheese, or cheesecake.
JVL00:45:49Red Lobster.
Sonny00:45:50The Red Lobster people. Thank you. The Red Lobster people to like talk to her, even though she wants to like pay homage to their delicious cheddar biscuits.
JVL00:45:58She absolutely glazed the fucking company. Right. And they're just like, no. Do they like their comms person is bad about this, but then she reaches out like directly to the CEO and he narcs on her to the comms person. It was like, Hey, in the future, please don't email. But by the way, as I,
Mike00:46:16this has happened to me. Oh yeah. Where I figured out a way to reach the principal and the principal is even game for it as this one is. And like, then the, the PR person, it's like, it was so, it was so relatable.
JVL00:46:31Never game for it. No. The principal pretends to be game for it. Right. Right. Right. Right. You think well of them. Right. Yeah. Fobs it off on the comms. I wish we could.
Sonny00:46:41No,
JVL00:46:41that's Ashley over here. Just won't stand for it.
Sonny00:46:44It's, it's what it is. I like, the, the apotheosis of this sort of piece, of course, is Frank Sinatra has a cold, which is gay to Lisa's whole thing. You know, the, the, the very long form piece in which he does not talk to Frank Sinatra, but he, he still gets into that world. And so this is, this is like, it is, it's just a very, it's a very nice piece of writing. In addition to being totally relatable to every single person on the planet, like this, this whole, like the free bread aspect of this cannot be overstated. As a reason why the piece works, because we have all, we've all thought about this. We've all had this argument. And, and there's just like, just the, the, there's one point where she asks where she is asked by somebody. She is talking to a bread expert. What's the point of the article? What's the point of the article? And she, she like talks about this guy a little bit and like how all of his, his great, you know, knowledge of bread and his, his awards and his knowledge, blah, blah, blah. And then she just ends up by saying fun article for people to read. I tell him glumly. I'm like, that's, that's, I can't, I once again, it's just one of these things where like, that's a conversation I've had with what's the point of your piece? Just something fun for people to read. I don't know. So that, that like, again, this is, it's one of these, it's one of these pieces that is, is both uniquely relatable to everybody because we have all, we've all thought about free bread. I think about, I think about free bread all the time. I love free bread. You cannot possibly, I, I resent, you know, I go to a restaurant and I see bread course on the paying menu and I get like just a little bit agitated. Like we went to, I went to, I went to a nice restaurant down the street from me the other day. I was finally able to take my wife there. We went and we, we had a nice meal, but like the first thing in the appetizers is bread course was like $9. And I was like, God damn it. Then I ordered it. I ordered it. Because I was like, I want it. I want, well, I actually ordered a different thing that included part of the bread course, but I was just like, I want, I want the bread. I want, I, I, I love restaurant bread. I love fresh restaurant, like some nice focaccia, whatever. Um,
Mike00:49:01we'll get away. We'll get into it. But there's a funny moment to where like, like as funny and as, uh, you know, sort of as entertaining as this piece is, she, she, Katie Weaver also gets at, some kind of deep truths. If we can say that there are like deep truths here going, going on about, uh, a story about free bread, uh, at a restaurant. There's a whole segment where she is talking with restaurant tours, uh, who are insisting that actually free bread is like not that big of a deal. And, uh, it's, or it's not very good. And it actually, if you want a good bread at a restaurant, you ought to pay for it. Like, like there are like multiple people she speaks with, uh, in the restaurant business who were like, um, no, no, free bread. That's it's not, it's not good. And like, and, and what, what, what, what people really want us to pay for. And there's this line, which, which is just inserted in the middle of this where I'm like, this is somebody who understands people who wrote this. She says, no one outside the food industry ever tells me they'd prefer paying for excellent bread to receiving mediocre bread for free. Most people just want to be given bread. They have not paid for that bread being good or sorry, that bread, being good constitutes a rare and wonderful possibility. Certainly not an expectation. Nothing tastes as good as free costs. And that is, that is the American condition right there. That is 100%.
Sonny00:50:31Nobody like you, you cannot refute this. I understand why restaurateurs make this argument. Yes. Bread costs money. It costs money. It costs time. Like you have to have somebody making the bread.
JVL00:50:45No, but the, but the, the restaurateur she speaks to in this. Almost all of them when pressed on specifics blow up the idea that it costs 100%. It's like 60 cents per, per, per meal. Right. What is, I think the, one of the places that really cares about their bread is spending 60 cents per meal. Yeah. Most of them,
Mike00:51:05it's like 10 cents.
JVL00:51:06And another, another one very smartly explains, uh, actually there, there's a way to do bread, right? Uh, the best way to do bread is you give it to people. After they've ordered. Yeah. Because you want them hungry while they're ordering. Cause they'll order more. And then by giving them free bread after they've ordered, they're going to say, they're going to think that the time until they got their food to them was shorter because that's something to do with their hands. They're in their pie holes. So again, I just, I don't believe the penny pinchers who were like, Oh, the free bread's too much.
Sonny00:51:40But it's not, but it's not, you're not, it's not the cost of the bread. It's the money you're giving up by not charging for bread. Like that's, that's the thing. Like it's, you know, it's the similar concepts, but different. All right. Fair.
JVL00:51:54Anyway. Yeah. So Sonny, can you put a link to the piece in the, yeah, we should,
Mike00:51:59we should absolutely, we should absolutely. I'll leave them.
JVL00:52:02This is why print magazines exist by the way. Like I kind of resent having to read this on a screen. It is cause it is 12 or 13,000. And I, so Sonny's holding up the one, this is my one complaint. Um, I, in general, I, I, I study a lot of the art that gets done in media because this is my business. And, uh, sure. In general, I put the Atlantic in best of class, uh, with Axios for, for art design. They put this piece on the cover, which was genius. The art that accompanied this piece. Absolutely. So part of the cover art,
Sonny00:52:41not great cover art, not great.
JVL00:52:43It was absolutely subpar.
Sonny00:52:45The, the art, the interior art, the cover art is fine because it's, it's mostly photos of photos of the actual bread is really, but the cover art is like, it's, it's minimalist and not, I don't, I don't, I agree with you. I actually agree with you. This deserved better.
JVL00:53:01Deserved better cover art. Sorry. This is again, very magaziney aside from the three of us. Nobody's going to care about that. Totally agree.
Mike00:53:08All right. Uh, so, so we, we should, we should, so we should lay out the ground rules here. So is this a,
Sonny00:53:14do we have ground rules? We haven't really done, there were no ground rules were sent to me.
Mike00:53:18Well, that's why we need to discuss it right now here on the air. Uh, so are we talking about, are we drafting bread in general or are we drafting restaurants that the, the free bread at a specific restaurant or what, like what are we doing here with, how are we, how are we?
JVL00:53:36I did not prepare for that. I prepared for drafting types of bread. So did I. Okay. Sonny,
Mike00:53:43is that,
JVL00:53:44does that work for you? Sure. Is that what you prepare for specific restaurants? Are you like park over in written house square?
Sonny00:53:51You guys just go and I'll do what I do. You do what you do. I'll do what I do.
Mike00:53:57All right. So the other thing is I can't remember. I, apparently I always fuck up the, the draft here. So maybe JVL needs to run it. I don't know. But like I thought, I thought, so do we like snake drafts or do we not like snake drafts?
JVL00:54:09How do we have, what do we. I like them just fine.
Mike00:54:13Okay.
JVL00:54:13So favor the snake draft.
Mike00:54:15All right. So we're, we're going to do a, we're going to do a snake draft and I'm just going to do an eruption draft.
Sonny00:54:19We each get $10. We get to.
Mike00:54:21Oh gosh. I mean, we're doing a snake draft. That's enough. That's that's all. That's yeah. And I'm going to do it where it's going to be JVL than me, than Sonny. And then we'll, we'll go, we'll go back around.
JVL00:54:36Is that, does that work for Sonny? Is that, is that, is that work for you? Fine.
Mike00:54:40Okay. And we're going to do what? Three, three rounds as well.
JVL00:54:44Yeah. Three rounds. Three pecs. Perfect. Three rounds.
Mike00:54:47JVL, you're going to start us off with the bread draft 2026 in honor of the NFL draft, which is happening this weekend. Start us off here with the number one pick.
JVL00:54:58I select the cranberry walnut bread from park, which actually is the best restaurant bread in America as detailed in this magisterial piece. I can say this only because I have actually been to park, believe it or not. And many years ago and I was struck by how great, the fucking bread was. It is, it is very, very rare that I remember a slice of bread from, from a place. And it was that good. Wow. And she says that it's the best free restaurant bread in America. Who am I to disagree?
Mike00:55:35I mean, she's done all this.
JVL00:55:36Number one, the blue chip.
Mike00:55:38Katie Weaver has done the, the homework on this. And so, yeah, who are we to, to, to argue? All right. Thank you, JVL. I'm going to go with, as my number one bread choice, I'm going to go with focaccia bread with like onion and garlic. I don't even know what you call it. Like, you know, when they like bake it into the bread flavor. Yeah.
JVL00:56:06That's a very, that's a very strong choice.
Mike00:56:09Yeah. Like it's, it's got to have that. Like, it's almost like on top of the dough. I don't know. I don't know how they make it. I don't know how the bread should be making.
JVL00:56:18The olive oil should almost be.
Mike00:56:20A hundred percent. The bread should glisten a little bit.
Sonny00:56:22If you squeeze the bread, liquid should come out.
Mike00:56:24It's like a spun. Yes. Indeed. Yes. So, yeah, that's, that's what I'm going with.
Sonny00:56:29All right. I'm not writing these down. So somebody else needs to. I'm writing,
Mike00:56:31I'm writing them down. Okay.
Sonny00:56:33All right. I got, I got the, I got the turn here. I got three and four. My number three pick is the popovers at BLT. If you, if you go, I like BLT closed a bunch of places. I used to have two restaurants in DC. There was one in the Trump hotel that closed whenever they, they closed that down. And then there was one on I street. I think I used to go to the one on I street very rarely, but I would go there almost solely to get the bread popovers. They had these like giant.
JVL00:57:01Those are very good.
Sonny00:57:01They were amazing. They were genuinely like flaky and warm. They were, they were fresh and they, the butter would just melt right. Hey, by the way, aside, aside here, one thing she, she doesn't get into that has always driven me crazy at restaurants. If I go to a restaurant and I get butter that does not spread because it is too cold, I get like actively angry. Oh, I get like worse. If, if you are going to give me bread free or not the butter, I better be able to open it. I better be able to spread it right over the bread.
JVL00:57:30Same for just have olive oil at the table or olive oil.
Sonny00:57:34I'll take olive oil. That's fine. But the like little, the like hard frozen butter packs. Like, what are you doing? Why would you, why would you waste my time? Why would you waste your time? Why would you,
Mike00:57:45why would you waste your money or whip it or something?
Sonny00:57:47It's outrageous. Outrageous. All right. Popovers. It's a true out. It's a true outrage. Anyway, so that, that's my number one pick is the, the popover at BLT. And I'm going to stick with DC steakhouses that don't exist anymore and go with the Smith and Walensky bread. Do you, do you guys, did you guys ever go to the Smith and Walensky with like the round and it, it was the sectioned and it had like kind of like butter and, you know, seasonings, on top. That was some good bread right there would come in a little, it would come in a little crock, like cast iron crock dish. And you would take it out. It would be hot and fresh. Oh man. That was, that was some good bread right there. The Smith and Walensky, I don't know, sectioned bread. I don't even know what you would call it. But again, does not that restaurant does not exist anymore. So I'm, I'm really, this is, this is a very niche couple of niche couple of picks for me. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going with the masses here. I'm going with things that you literally can't get. Anymore.
Mike00:58:46So Sonny with some niche picks for a draft, like knock me over with a feather, never knock me over with a feather. All right. Number two, this is a, this is a nostalgia play here. So in a regional play. So, so I'm, I'm, I'm also going a little niche here. But when I was growing up of the many fern bars, you guys are familiar with this concept, right? Of these like restaurants, like Applebee's and, and Chili's in a way, like they're, they're kind of faux, faux, faux bar restaurant type chain restaurant things. There was one particular chain called Oh, Charlie's, which was very popular in the Southeast. Sure. And they're like their roles is all I can describe them as just roles that they would bring out. And they were like sitting in butter, like hot, bring it out in this little wooden bowl to your table, no matter what you ordered. Unbelievable. I have no, no idea now, like 25 years later, if, or more, if they actually tasted as good as I remember them. But it was like, it was like the thing that like elevated Oh, Charlie's in my mind from all the other restaurants of its type was like, it just had this little extra bit of class. And, and so much of that was in the Oh, Charlie's roles.
JVL01:00:08All right. I will select with the numbers. Number six, overall pick. Corn bread. Now I, it, I, I have to stipulate though, that when we are talking about generic kinds of bread. Sure. We are talking about the best in class version of it.
Mike01:00:29100%.
JVL01:00:30Because corn bread runs the gamut. You can get awful corn bread that is spongy. You can get awful corn bread that is deli corn bread. Consequently, that simply crumbles apart the minute you try to touch it or butter it. You know, you gotta put butter on it. It just flakes apart everywhere. No, that corn bread sucks. But when corn bread is done, right. And especially when there's a little honey butter with it. Hmm.
Mike01:00:56Love. Interesting. Interesting. So are you JVL? Do you have a preference or do you even draw a distinction between sweet corn bread and savory corn bread?
JVL01:01:08I mean, I didn't know that those were two different things. Okay.
Mike01:01:10To be honest. Yeah, this is a, this is definitely a seven thing. We, we are a savory, corn bread family and we despise sweet corn bread. Like it's, it's like I didn't order cake. I ordered bread. Thank you very much. Um, so anything that turns down cake, um, not when I'm eating it with like my chili, give me a break. You want savory corn bread, jalapeno, savory corn bread. That's the way to go. Um, so anyway, all right, thank you JVL. Uh, you, you have the next pick.
JVL01:01:39I have the next pick and I, I mean, I'm, I'm surprised a little chagrin that it fell this far in the draft. But the real answer is that the, the best free bread in America can be found at mass every Sunday.
Mike01:01:52Ah, there,
JVL01:01:53there we go. The bread of life. Right. Um, but I don't want to take that because that's a little alienating. So I will then and say, uh,
Sonny01:02:03yeah, biscuits, good biscuits. So you get a good buttermilk biscuit,
JVL01:02:08especially when they're warm and hot. Those are nice. I like a good biscuit.
Mike01:02:13I think that's a good call. Uh, I, yeah, I do think you, you were sort of, uh, tempting things a little bit to, to go with the, uh, you know, the bread of life, the body of Christ. So, um, I think that's a buttermilk biscuit is a solid substitute. All right. Uh, I have the next pick my final pick. Um, this is a little bit of a, of a wife guy type of answer, but I will be honest. My wife's sourdough is, uh, is just top tier. She has been working very, very hard and is dedicated, makes it all the time. It's so basic. It's, it is, but, but you know, but you know what JVL, it is, it is life giving in the, in the way that the Lembas of, uh, of Lothlorien.
JVL01:03:00Lembas. Oh, oh,
Mike01:03:02the Lembas of Lothlorien. The way bread of the elves, you know, uh, provides a sucker for, uh, for those who are, uh, who are, who, who hunger, uh, the, my wife, my wife's sourdough is excellent. And for many reasons, like it is versatile. I can make, uh, I can put, I make a ham sandwich on it. We use it for, uh, grilled cheese sandwiches. You can just slap some butter on there after you've toasted it a little bit in the morning for a quick breakfast. But the big reason is my eight year old who is, um, oddly picky about food. Like he didn't used to be, but he's like in the last couple of years has gotten really picky. He doesn't like a whole lot of different things. And it's like the biggest fan of the sourdough. And he eats it. Like he will eat an entire loaf of sourdough if we don't stop him from doing so. Um, and, uh, I love my wife and then she does a great job. So, so her sourdough is, uh, is my final pick.
JVL01:03:58Sonny, take us home.
Mike01:04:00Yeah, let's, let's finish it up, Sonny.
Sonny01:04:01I mean, the obvious answer, this is like, so this gets discussed in the piece, the piece that we, we mentioned, which is, uh, you're not going to say that the chain, the chain breads and the chain breads. Uh, I believe, I believe Cheesecake Factory was number one, right? Cheesecake Factory was picked most frequently.
Mike01:04:18With the little, the little brown baguette.
Sonny01:04:20The little brown bread. And you know what? They're right. It's, that's the number one bread in America. It's chosen by the most people because it's the best. It's chosen by the most because it is the best. And this whole like, oh, there's so many outlets and that's why it got picked by so many people. No, people go there for the bread. They go there. My kids go there for the bread. I go there. False. I don't go there for the bread.
JVL01:04:41They go there for the cheesecake.
Sonny01:04:42What? No. Well, they also like the cheesecake. Yeah. We don't always get cheesecake though.
JVL01:04:46We don't always get cheesecake. People go to Red Lobster for the rolls. People also go to Red Lobster for the cheddar biscuits. That's true. People will go to Lone Star Steakhouse for their,
Sonny01:04:56for their bread.
JVL01:04:57For whatever the things they get. Texas Roadhouse. Which I've never had. Texas Roadhouse. Which I've never had. But I know that people, no, it's not bad. What are the things they sell?
Mike01:05:05The little biscuits with the, with the, with the herb. Well, that's not free. Like sweet butter.
JVL01:05:09No,
Mike01:05:09they do at Texas Roadhouse.
JVL01:05:12Really? Yeah. Anyway. It is free. Anyway. Anyway. But people go to those places for those things. I do not believe anybody has ever said, let's go to Cheesecake Factory for that bread. They like the bread, but it's not destination. It's pure, pure cherry on top.
Sonny01:05:26Disagree. Hard disagree. But the, but the, the point is we haven't chosen, we haven't, like I, you could have gone any number of ways with this. You could have gone with the, the cheddar biscuits. You could have gone with whatever. I'm going to go with the Cheesecake Factory one because I like, I like being given an option of breads. I like having different kinds of breads. I want a bread, a basket with multiple kinds of breads. And, and because sometimes I want different, I sometimes I want the sourdough. Sometimes I want the, the brown bread. I want, I want options when I get my free bread and I want multiple baskets of free bread. I want, I want, this is, I'm, when I go to a restaurant and I'm given free bread, I want to be offered more free bread. I want them to be like, would you like another basket of bread? And the answer is yes. The answer is yes, I would like another basket of bread. That's what I would like.
Mike01:06:10Here's a question that, by the way, that Katie Weaver does not resolve, which is, which is like, what about tortilla chips? Is that bread?
Sonny01:06:17So I, I almost, I almost made this my pick. I almost made my pick free chips at a Mexican restaurant, because this is, this is like the God tier free thing is actually chips at a, at a, if you go to a good Mexican restaurant and they give you good tortilla chips and good salsa, like there, I mean, I don't like a really good bread cane compete with that, but like your baseline Mexican restaurant is, is better than your baseline free bread at a different kind of restaurant.
Mike01:06:47Totally agree. And I guess the question is, does it count? It's like, is a hot dog.
Sonny01:06:51It doesn't count because it's not bread. Tortilla chips aren't bread.
Mike01:06:54Right. But tortilla chips are made from tortilla chips.
Sonny01:06:57Aren't bread.
Mike01:06:58I'm just, I'm just, I'm just throwing it out there. I'm, I tend to agree with you, Sonny,
Sonny01:07:01but I, I, as I said, I almost picked this just for like a, having a fun little monkey wrench and things, but I chose to play by the rules.
JVL01:07:10Fred draft king size, everything. King size. That was,
Sonny01:07:14you know what? Still, still the greatest pick in the history of sub-beacon drafts. It was a good pick.
Mike01:07:20I remember. Okay.
Sonny01:07:22My kids, whatever my kids, my kids, there's a house on my block that puts out king size candy bars. My kids go there first every year. You know why? King size candy bars.
Mike01:07:32But you wouldn't, that wouldn't be the case if it were like king size Werther's originals. I'm just saying, you know, that's not even a thing.
Sonny01:07:39King size Werther's originals. That's not even a, that's, that's just making me, Oh, they wouldn't, wouldn't go there if it was king size dog shit. Well, no, of course they wouldn't.
?01:07:48All right.
Mike01:07:49Okay. So for posterity, before we wrap this up, I just going to go through the, the picks here. JVL, his three, his draft here is cranberry, walnut bread from park in written out square Philadelphia, cornbread and buttermilk biscuits. My picks, my three picks are focaccia, the rolls from Oh, Charlie's and my wife's sourdough bread. Sonny's are the popovers at BLT, the bread at Smith and Walensky, a little bread round divided up and the cheesecake factory brown baguette. Let us know in the comments. Who do you think won this bread draft? Tell us what you think about Katie Weaver's tour de force, a magnum opus for the Atlantic and anything else. I think that's all the bread talk we're going to give for this episode. Yeah.
Sonny01:08:38Yeah. We're all done. We're all breaded out.
Mike01:08:40All right. We will talk to you next time.
?01:08:43Bye.
Sonny01:08:47Bye. Bye. Bye. Anything, anything else?
JVL01:08:49Surprise. Nobody took a pretzel bread. Feels like a pretzel. You know what? Gimme sitting out there. Good pretzel bread. Good.
Mike01:08:57Can I, but can I say actually though, I think pretzel bread, the, the Delta between the promise of pretzel bread and the, uh, the, the reality of pretzel bread is, uh, it's pretty wide actually. Um, like,
JVL01:09:09and you've got to consider the top of the form.
Mike01:09:11I know, but I, I also consider like there are very rare times where I've gotten the top of the form on pretzel bread, almost everything like an actual like bun made out of elephant and castle.
JVL01:09:23Remember elephant and castle. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can see. Yeah. No,
Mike01:09:28the elephant and castle. That's true. Um, I don't know. Got anything else?
?01:09:32No,
Sonny01:09:33no, I'm sure it's fine.
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