#347. 'Nobody'/'Nobody 2'
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Mike is out this week, so Sonny and JVL fly solo through a discussion of Nobody and Nobody 2, the Bob Odenkirk assassin franchise JVL watched on flights to and from Texas. JVL is surprisingly fond of both films, calling them "programmatic movies that are better than they need to be" and a full standard deviation above what Netflix would produce with the same script, and he singles out Sharon Stone's hammy villain turn in the sequel; Sonny is far more skeptical, enjoying the dad-wish-fulfillment premise and the 87North-style set pieces (especially the bus fight) but knocked off course by Christopher Lloyd's action scenes looking "ridiculous" given his age, and by an inexplicable dog that appears in the opening of the first film and then vanishes without ever paying off. The episode opens with a long two-man-show-without-a-third-chair riff on podcast structure, then JVL's expanding pinball collection (a second machine, Godzilla as the permanent "forever machine," Deadpool on the chopping block, and his son Flash obliterating JVL's high scores during his Lenten pinball fast), a Forrest Gump-vs-Pulp Fiction debate where JVL hates Gump and Sonny defends it as superb studio craft, and a tangent through Robert Zemeckis's filmography and introducing G Money to The Simpsons. There's a big Project Hail Mary check-in (both loved it, huge audience reaction, box-office rundown against Scream 7, Goat, and Hoppers) plus a digression on AMC quietly rebranding IMAX screens as "AMC XL," before the Nobody discussion gives way to a Bullet Train and Day Shift comparison and a closing tangent about The Pit, ER, and the Michael Crichton estate lawsuit over the shows' shared DNA.
From the show notes
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Full transcript
Sonny00:00:00There's a long, dormant piece of me that so very badly wants out. What are you still doing here, old man? I'm gonna fuck you up. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Sub-Beacon. Mike's out, so we're winging the hosting part. It's always fun when Mike's gone because it's just like we're just making it up as we go, which is not how you should do podcasts, as my understanding. Podcasts demand segments and they demand order. And if you don't have those things, it's funny. I've been listening, JVL. You know, as you know, I don't really listen to podcasts. I don't like it's not. It's not. I don't have time because I don't drive anywhere, really, because I'm at home all the time. I don't like when. I work out. I'm usually watching a TV show or a movie that I need to review or that we're doing. But I have been listening to I have been listening to the rewatchables podcast, the ringers rewatches podcast. And the one thing that that show really drives home is that it's really nice when you have like a flow and a structure. You've got categories, you've got you know, you just have like a nice little sequence of events.
JVL00:01:23It's industrialized. It's industrialized. It's good to be monetized.
Sonny00:01:29This show is not this show is not, you know, totally without structure. We have dudes chatting and then we have box office and we have the movie, right? Like that's it's not, you know, but but when when one of us has gone, everything kind of goes off the rails because it also,
JVL00:01:44you know, two man show with three people. It's meant to be a show with three people.
Sonny00:01:48It's a it's a three man show. And yet we've done we've done very few of those recently. It's been, you know, everybody's traveling and anyway. Uh, JBL, how are you? How what's going on in your your life?
JVL00:02:02You and I saw each other. Yeah, that was nice in Texas.
Sonny00:02:07You were in you were in Texas.
JVL00:02:10I'll tell you. So my life is not going great in all the ways that matter, but it's going fabulous in one way that doesn't matter.
Sonny00:02:17You say that it doesn't matter, but I think it does matter.
JVL00:02:21Which is that behind me, I have my second pinball machine.
Sonny00:02:24You two, you're a two pinball household now.
JVL00:02:26Didn't take long now, did it?
Sonny00:02:29This is I was going to say that this is there's a real dam breaking sort of thing.
JVL00:02:35The seal has been broken.
Sonny00:02:37And I feel like I feel like there's a nonzero chance that you will have an entire like floor of your house that's just filled with these things. And not not too long in order here.
JVL00:02:51The guy I bought this machine from up in Connecticut owns currently 12 pinball machines and he has them scattered throughout his house. I do have to say the idea of not having your pinball machines confined to any particular room. But well, if you go out onto the sun room, there's a Lord of the Rings machine in there. And if you go up to the family room, well, there's got a King Kong and an X-Men and a Jaws over there. And if well, if you're down in the room in in the mud, the mud room has a pinball machine. That seems like a pretty nice way to live. You walk into a room and you're faced with the choice of would you like to play pinball today? I'm waiting right here for you.
Sonny00:03:41I was going to say you could you could a custom custom design each room for the pinball machine. But my understanding with the pinball machines is that they're going to be coming and going. So you don't want to make any permanent permanent except for Godzilla.
JVL00:03:54Godzilla is a forever. Machine. And the reasons for this are are dual. The first is that it is regarded already as the great machine of its generation of machines. So the first totally iconic consensus number one machine since the Addams Family, which was an early 2000s machine. And so there will always be a demand for it. So I mean, the price is the price not going down. There will always be parts for it. So as things break, you won't have to worry because there will be parts supplied for this for forever. And also it's a great fucking game. The replayability on it is off the charts. So I think that the Godzilla will be here forever. Deadpool, I think, is going to go. Deadpool is going to which which is important now because while I have been on my Lent fasting from pinball, Flash has erased every single one of my high scores. From that interesting.
Sonny00:05:07That's interesting because you had said Flash wasn't that into it, that he like played a little bit and then he stopped.
JVL00:05:13No flashes to fist in.
Sonny00:05:16He's he's up to his elbows in it.
JVL00:05:18And I mean, just as he to give you, for instance, as to how good he has gotten my previous high score, the grandmaster score on the machine was 860 million, which was like a hell of a run. You know, like, I think I've gone 600 million once or twice. And then like my paper today, he put up 1.9 buh buh buh billion.
Sonny00:05:44You're never going to beat that.
JVL00:05:46There's 0.0% chance I beat that.
Sonny00:05:48You can't beat that. You got to get rid of the machine.
JVL00:05:52Never going to happen. So it's going to Sarah Longwell and Sarah is Sarah Longwell. It can have his initials staring down at her for all time. It's fair. But can I if you wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Sonny00:06:04No, I have I have a I have a if you unplug it, it does not reset the the scores.
JVL00:06:11No, it's not like you can reset the scores. So you I mean, it's a computer. It's got memory. Yeah. So you can go in and reset the scores, but you have to choose to do that. You've got to say, I want to erase all these scores and stuff there. And I would just say this. So I've done already done a fair amount of modding with Godzilla and everything I've had to do is like 30% more difficult than I imagine it would be. Mm hmm. And that only serves to make it feel better when you finish it.
Sonny00:06:49Totally. Totally. And I.
JVL00:06:55I feel as though my life is surrounded by problems which I can't solve. Yeah, because they're too big and they don't involve me and they involve like controlling other people or the process of aging itself or or just things which are utterly intractable. And when I go to mod one of my stupid fucking pinball machines and I encounter a problem, well, if I just sit and work on it for an hour, I can figure that out and to be able to impose a tiny bit of control and order on my world like that is satisfying in a spiritual sense. Like I had no anticipation that it was going to be.
Sonny00:07:38You understand that you are currently pitching a book to to Eric Nelson, perhaps Zen and the art Zen and the art of pinball repair Zen and the art of pinball, really, because that is like Zen and the art of motor motorcycle. That is literally like that's the thing.
JVL00:07:58Is that what it is?
Sonny00:07:59I never I kind of it's kind of. But it's but it's but like, you know, you when you when you are faced with when life hands you lemons, right? It's it's you you you don't make lemonade. You don't make lemonade. You go do something else. You go you go build a Lego set or you read a book.
JVL00:08:21Yes, you organize something. Do you organize something? Puzzle. Anyway, how are you, man? You talk. I'm switching headphones. Don't mind me switching headphones.
Sonny00:08:30I'm fine. I'm fine. You switch headphones. I I don't know. I'm fine. I have I have a question for you because I'm I'm curious where you come down on this. And I have a reason for asking. I'll get to the reason in a second. But I want to I want your unbiased opinion first. What are your broad thoughts on Forrest Gump? Forrest Gump, the film, not the book, Forrest Gump, Forrest Gump, the film.
JVL00:09:01I hate it.
Sonny00:09:03See, I figured you probably would.
JVL00:09:05I hated it from the very first minute I saw it.
Sonny00:09:08OK, I'm this does not surprise me. This does not surprise me. I'm asking. I interviewed one of the one of the producers for from, you know, one of my other shows this week. And I rewatched it. I rewatched it for the first time in a while. But I got to be honest with you. I'm the exact opposite. I've always loved that movie. I've always loved that movie. I've always been totally taken by it. I think I mean, it's like obviously kind of more. I don't know that I love it more now, but I do. I do. Here's here's here's kind of what I'm getting at. There's always been this. There's been this big debate for years now, like Pulp Fiction versus versus Forrest Gump. Right. Because Pulp Fiction was the movie that was nominated for Best Picture that year. There's always been, you know, folks are like, well, this is ridiculous. That movie Forrest Gump should not have beaten Pulp Fiction. Pulp Fiction is a seminal movie. And they're they're right in certain regards. Pulp Fiction, I think, is a better movie than Forrest Gump. Pulp Fiction is a like more seminal, defining film of an era than Forrest Gump.
JVL00:10:12The most important films don't often win Best Picture.
Sonny00:10:16Yeah, they they very rarely do. They very rarely do. But the but but the broader point here is like it's not even it's not even. I think that Forrest Gump is the movie that is like it feels like an Oscar movie, right? It's like big kind of kind of historical. You know, it's got big star performance. You know, it's it's crowd pleasing to the point of almost being like kind of sappy. And and so like on that level, obviously, it's more likely to win. But I also just think it's like I have always. I have always enjoyed it, and I've always thought on its own terms, it was so well put together, so well structured, so well acted. So, like, interestingly done with the special effects work throughout, which is kind of invisible, except for when you're intended to notice it, like when he's interacting with figures from the past that like I I've just always thought it was like I've always thought it was a an extremely high quality. Iteration of studio filmmaking right like this is it's what studios what studios should be making it's the sort of thing that to my taste that's when I say I hated it I don't mean that it's a bad movie sure sure sure it's not to my taste I would agree with all of those things yeah I just I find it I I've always found the debate about it interesting anyway that that was I was I was having this conversation with the guy but this is this guy's been Robert Zemeckis is producing partner or was Robert Zemeckis is producing partner from like 1990 through 2020 which means that he was involved in making uh he he was involved with making the the two back to the future sequels um this was before he was producing he was like doing special effects work cast away back to the future back to the future too who framed Roger Rabbit death becomes her uh Forrest Gump cast away flight like a like it's this it's this ridiculous run of films uh contact is actually the best Robert Zemeckis movie a contact contact I'm sorry he he produced contact he you know he he produced contact which is which is maybe his best I actually have a real soft spot for death becomes her um I've always have you why have you watched it recently it's very good it's very good as a kid maybe I would I saw it as a kid was excited to see it and I didn't think it was funny and so maybe that's maybe I was just too young I don't know uh I don't know I don't know um anyway uh yeah that's all I got I don't have any there's nothing there's nothing going nothing nothing interesting happening in my life uh the neighbors knocked down their uh shitty deck they were going to build an extension on their house and as a result wildlife has been flooding over into my house seeing possums all the other things you know that's that's great oh I uh I will
JVL00:13:23give you something I uh I watched I I introduced g money to the simpsons sure and I wasn't quite sure if it would translate uh I do not watch the simpsons anymore myself I have not watched the simpsons in decades uh but I I started him with homer at the bat and then we did cape fear or whatever that I forget what that one is called the cape fear knockoff with sidesides sideshow bob he loved them both
Sonny00:13:59super into it that's interesting that's interesting I uh I have I haven't I have not shown my kids the simpsons I bet they would probably be into it to a certain extent I do kind of wonder how much of the so how much of the humor is so referential that it's hard to parse
JVL00:14:23yeah that's I mean now the good news is a lot of the referential humor is really timeless it's like Gilbert and Sullivan like it's not like you have to be familiar with late 1990s culture but you maybe have to know something about Japanese culture or Gilbert and Sullivan or you have to know about American politics writ large uh you know but there's also an element of absurdity anyway yeah maybe this is even more thing it was interesting I uh I'm gonna try showing them the monorail episode next that's fine that's him yeah that's
Sonny00:14:58a that's an all-timer just show him show the show him the uh the um troy mcclure one uh with
JVL00:15:07planet of the apes uh oh I guess you made a monkey you finally made a monkey yeah I feel like that
Sonny00:15:17see that's referential but also timeless because who cannot who cannot I I don't I would break dancing dr zayas number I would not I do not think there's a 100 chance I had seen the original planet of the apes from start to finish when I when I saw that episode of the simpsons you know just a function of you know I was probably 12 when that episode came out
JVL00:15:42but on the other hand it's like that bit in the simpsons succeeds as a planet of the apes joke succeeds entirely as a broadway circa andrew lloyd weber late 1980s joke yes and then it becomes like over the moon funny when you if you can put both of those together in like if so if you're familiar with both of them both of those tropes and you see it and it just it slays well see but
Sonny00:16:13no but it's so it's so funny because I don't think I was terribly familiar with either of those tropes and yet it's still slayed for me because it's just very funny it's like troy mcclure shouting I love you doctors I guess at the end like I that's just it's just very funny and and because it works as like a general broadway parody right like this is the there was a there was a south park joke in toward the beginning of its run where they were trying to woo sundance to south park and so like they were showing they were showing movies there and one of the movies was like two gay cowboys eating pudding was like the title of the movie and I was like that's a funny joke about like just indie cinema right like that's just like that just that just is it just and I think that that is that is kind of the level on which um that works as well uh so yeah did you guys did you did you end up going to see uh project hail mary I did I took g money
JVL00:17:12and how old is how old is he again nine he's nine how how did how much did he love it he I mean he to see this since he finished the book and uh loved it I loved it I thought it was a very successful screen adaptation yeah yeah like have you really knew oh yeah I read the book literally I was on the wait list for that book to come out yeah and I was pre-ordered excited oh yeah I I am an Andy
Sonny00:17:44Weir that's interesting to me I I feel like we discussed this when the Martian came out um but uh so wait I want I'm I want I want to get I want to get G Money's take on this so did he what did he he was just into it from from the get-go from the get-go he uh in the book he was a little
JVL00:18:09freaked out by the first chapter where the catheter came out of his dick and happily the film alighted that because Gabe was like do you think they're gonna have the cat like pulling that out of his penis and I was like I'm pretty sure they won't show that buddy he's not in a pg-13 uh so uh yeah
Sonny00:18:30it was great have you read all the Andy Weir I've not I've read zero Andy Weir books I'm not an Andy
JVL00:18:36Weir guy so his first book is called Artemis and you should read it because it's actually his best book and it's the one which is the most cinematic uh because it's Chinatown on the moon okay but with all the science porn that Andy Weir gives you yeah so like as a for instance you have maybe never thought about how important if if we had a city on the moon yes I think about this all the time so I'm among the jobs which would be the most important jobs welders that sounds right yeah welders are unbelievably important and the physics of welding on the moon with basically zero atmosphere and uh very light gravity are very particular if you would like to read like essentially like 2 000 words in the course of a chapter which is a murder mystery explaining the welding it is for sci-fi nerds it's like sci-fi Tom Clancy in the way that Tom Clancy you know Hunt for Red October is this really great Cold War movie that also if you have always wanted to read an entire chapter about how a nuclear reactor would go into meltdown in minute detail where you want to understand why the thermocline layer doesn't conduct sound uh you know you want to learn the physics behind that oh Clancy will give that to you and Andy Weir gives you all that in in his books yeah but what he does is the Martian is like his castaway version of that uh project Hail Mary is a buddy cop version of that and uh Artemis is Chinatown
Sonny00:20:32yeah with that I imagine we'll get an Artemis we we must be getting an Artemis adaptation soon then because this is this movie is an enormous hit it has to it has to I I mean it's insane to me that it hasn't well let me let me well let me ask you what did you make of project Hail Mary the movie because you weren't here last week when I discussed it with I actually haven't
JVL00:20:55listened to the episode so um which I almost always listening I just haven't had time um did you guys like it yes well yeah I know what am I saying of course I read your review so I know that you liked it um I thought it was great I thought it was really great I enjoyed the hell out of it I I like this is I'm gonna be very sad when theatrical cinema goes away because a piece of art like Project Hail Mary deserves to be seen on a giant Dolby screen with giant Dolby speakers and I understand that by the time the cinema goes away I will be able to have a 100 inch OLED screen but it also won't be the same it won't be the same as being in a theater with 250 other people uh seeing it on something four stories hall and how did your how did your audience how did it
Sonny00:21:51play with your audience huge I cannot I I genuinely like I I cannot think of a movie that has played
JVL00:22:00better with an audience that I have seen Maverick Top Gun Maverick the last movie I was with yeah reacted like this was Top Gun Maverick or Barbie Top Gun Maverick the Top Gun Maverick was is
Sonny00:22:14probably is probably the answer here right Top Gun Maverick is probably right um if Hollywood would they why haven't they started pressing the good movie button I just don't understand exactly they
JVL00:22:26would just press the good movie button that would uh that would press the good they did not press
Sonny00:22:30it for Super Mario Galaxy apparently that's the word on the that's the word on the street I mean
JVL00:22:35it is telling I mean I have seen every trailer and every commercial I think that exists for Super Mario Galaxy and I have not seen even the hint of a suggestion of what it's about no idea the only thing that is suggested is hey here's a thing from the video games you like that right hey here's this other thing from the video games you like that the one that seems like a
Sonny00:23:05danger sign yeah the one the one plot point I have seen suggested is all right Bowser's kids are coming to break Bowser out like okay maybe that's maybe you can make a movie out of that sure I it's still gonna make I it's gonna make a quarter billion dollars over the Easter five days like it's it's gonna it's gonna be enormous so I don't know I don't see that's the
JVL00:23:27kind of movie that seems like it would be just fine on Netflix we don't need to have that on
Sonny00:23:32box office box office box office uh box office huge hold for project hail mary 32 huge hold for project hail mary hold on let me pull up the actual number here because it is uh it's big um and uh to be explained correctly so uh at 54 million dollars in its second weekend uh project hail mary dropped just 32.8 which is a which is a fantastic hold now part of this is there were no other big major releases warner brothers put out they will kill you which is an indie um ish sorry I mean it's warner brothers so it's not indie but it's a it's a smaller uh it's a smaller movie it's you know uh in the in the same vein as ready or not to ready or not to here I come like as best as I can tell they're the same exact movie like woman is the try they try is attacked by satanists who try to sacrifice her that's like the plot of both those movies I don't know I'm not 100 sure what's going on uh scream seven is a close to 200 million dollars or over 200 million dollars worldwide now that's a sure it's the highest growth thing entry in the series highest grossing entry in the series and here's an interesting did you guys go see goat JBL no so go the Steph Curry NBA animated movie that's over 100 million domestic which is a solid number it's not amazing but it's solid that's like a solid number what's that I bet it's gonna kill in China yeah it probably it'll probably do pretty well it'll probably do pretty well in China but hoppers hoppers is another uh original animated film it's you know over
JVL00:25:20it's around 140 million now um is it illumination is hoppers illumination no that's disney it's
Sonny00:25:27disney oh okay well there you go walt disney not even pixar it's walt disney uh but yeah project hail mary is a big story here I I look this movie is an enormous hit domestically right it is we're we're looking at huge numbers it's kind of soft internationally it's kind of soft internationally it's only done 150 million worldwide it's grossed more than half of its uh money here in the states it's at 330 million worldwide total it'll probably probably gets up to 600 or so maybe I it kind of it's it's really going to depend on what happens this weekend I think because we've got uh the big movie of the early summer you know kind of late spring um with super mario galaxy dropping this weekend and that's going to suck up all the oxygen for the next two weeks and project hail mary's losing all of its large format screens uh you know you need to see super
JVL00:26:26mario galaxy on the biggest possible screen I have a question I'm sorry I need to take a sidebar so I have not been to a movie theater in quite some time and my amc no longer had an imax the imax screen was rebranded as like amc xl did they have a dispute and lose their imax
Sonny00:26:50no deal no that well so the amc did your did your theater did that specific theater used to
JVL00:26:58have an imax yes and the screen which used to be the imax screen is now labeled amc xl
Sonny00:27:05um so the reason they would do this is that uh amc xl so amc xl is not really a thing it's just their biggest screens it's their biggest screens and um the reason they would do this is because uh you have to amc has to pay imax for for every ticket sold that's under imax so like this is this this comes into play this is particularly um hard for them when it comes to the a-list right so like with amc a-list right if you go see uh you get you know you pay it's 24 bucks a month or whatever 23 or 30 bucks a month even though i don't go to movies i'm on the a-list the you're supporting you're supporting amc adam aaron thanks you for your for your sacrifice uh the but the way the way a-list works for people who don't know uh is that if you you know you you pay your 25 bucks a month or whatever um and you can see up to four movies a week and the way it works is they have come up with a some sort of deal with the studios it depends on the movie it depends on the studio but they send studios some amount of revenue every time you use the app to go to a movie right so if you go see project hail mary they send amazon mgm six bucks but if you go see if you go see it on an imax screen they send amazon mgm six bucks and then they have to send imax like another five they they they eat the whole upcharge on that so that's uh that's uh that's i i i i'm curious now that you mention it i like i would be curious if the if they are um if they are doing this more uh more frequently all over the country because my my my local theater the amc north park is one of like it's one of the 10 biggest theaters in the country it's you know the it's one of the it's one of the highest rising tentpole theaters
JVL00:29:16right they the amc has a name for the they call them their flagship theaters i think
Sonny00:29:19yeah it's a it's it's one of the it's one of the big ones it's again it's like one of the you know dallas fort worth is the third biggest uh market in the in the country for theatrical after new york and la um and this is the nicest amc theater in the in the region um but we have so we have a dolby we have an imax and we have an uh amc xl in that in that uh the in that area um in like they're all like right next to each other actually it's funny they're they're all kind of right there um but it's it's that is that's interesting i i'm i'm sorry to digress
JVL00:29:59i just assumed that like they had either gotten into a dispute with imax or no they just didn't want to pay the imax fees anymore and so i assume that's what it is so the projector out because
Sonny00:30:11the screen's the same right yeah yeah yeah they like i am sure imax just takes their projector and puts it somewhere else but i i everything i'd seen the suggested that imax was increasing the number of screens and there is something about the branding right like like people want when when people are they're like oh i got to see this in imax that's the thing and i think amc wants to break audiences of that well uh as our friend
JVL00:30:36tony hi tony told us once upon a time say what you will about imax but the imax systems have a which is a thing that normal theaters do not necessarily uh get strict about adhering to standards on right and i don't know like the imax stuff is generally just better yes even if it's fake even if it's limax your quality of your projection will be better if you care about those things then that's important but it's good it's good that super mario brothers
Sonny00:31:13is taking over all these screens i didn't want to see project hail mary and imax 70 millimeter i i won't i won't get to until they re-release it so i'm sure they will but now you can see super mario galaxy in that i gotta say i it's the imax 70 millimeter is one of these things where like i don't understand they're they somebody either amc or cinemark or imax or whoever needs to be smarter about this and just be like we've got 15 of these fucking venues in the country we're not going to change them out for whatever the new thing is if there is an imax 70 millimeter capable film in rotation if sinners is playing and is still selling out 80 of the seats every week we keep sinners in there or we keep sinners we have like sinners sinners does you know two shows a day and super mario galaxy would do two two shows a day or you know project hail mary would do two shows a day super mario galaxy like there needs to be i understand the contracts on this are very the whole point is they want to be dominant they want to you know like the studios are like we are the new thing and we get all the screens and like i get that but like somebody somewhere has to be a grown-up and be like for the health of the ecosystem of the entire uh you know we're going to convert everything to imax
JVL00:32:38well you can't make imax the new standard but then but then that i think i don't think
Sonny00:32:45audiences are stupid they'll know that it's not as good you know they'll they'll know that it's your if you make every theater imax then there's no
JVL00:32:53there's no fewer theaters because physical space wise you need larger screens and uh look we have few we have less product coming out anyway so why not take a bunch of these uh 16 screen theaters shave them down to like 12 or 10 screen theaters but enlarge the auditoriums make them imax size and uh everybody's happy you're charged more you're going to be seeing that you know why not that's I don't think that all film be premium large format oh yes I want to see this is you know if you go to a theater to a movie theater you should be going to see premium format I want
Sonny00:33:40to see I want to see the a24 horror film undertone in the biggest screen possible please all right uh I want the stand by me 40th anniversary in IMAX 3D come on conversion uh all right so
JVL00:33:57listen we we're gonna talk about just because I I just am not in a place in my life where I can get to a theater right now for complicated family reasons um and uh I happened to see on the plane to and from Texas the two nobody movies I don't know why I decided to watch these two movies I have never had any interest or desire to but I put the first one on and I was kind of entertained and so on the flight home I was like oh yeah the second one I'll watch that too and I did the whole thing is so weird having Saturday Night Live writer Bob Odenkirk playing John Wick in I mean so far as I can tell it's like a straight up homage to John Wick I mean they share the 87
Sonny00:34:55north uh DNA right well it's written by Derek Kolstad who is the who wrote uh John Wick yeah
JVL00:35:02and and it but it's kind of a dark comedy and I I don't know it's just the whole thing is just bizarre to me and it doesn't work in a lot of ways but in a couple ways it does work and I don't know I just thought there might be something to talk about there I think we could
Sonny00:35:22talk about I have I have a lot of thoughts about nobody and nobody well I have so I have some thoughts about nobody and and nobody too I don't I don't know if I have a lot of thoughts but I've got I've got some thoughts here um all right hold on let me uh I I need to actually pull up the the the the casting crew here all right nobody the 2021 film uh directed by Ilya Nysheller uh written by Derek Halstead produced by David Leitch and the uh the 87 North guys starring as you mentioned Bob Odenkirk amongst others uh is as you say JVL kind of a high concept John Wick knockoff the the pitch of which is what if the the polite family man in your neighborhood the dad who can't get his trash cans out on time and is always getting yelled at by his wife and his kids what if he's actually a super killer who can take anybody out sure there's this is this is the level on which the film works which is as pure mid 40 something to mid 50 something dad wish fulfillment right there's like this there's there is that level of of the the movie um on which it works the second level on which it works is that it has as the 87 north movies tend to have good sense of combat space the the set piece the set piece the defining set piece action sequence of this film takes place on a bus um and it is again it's one of these it's one of these moments where you have a lot of wish fulfillment going on practically old boy ask you have yes but like before but even even before you get to the mechanics of it it's like you have a guy on a bus who's being harassed by a bunch of young toughs and he kicks the out of all of them and he just he just beats him up and he and he defends the downtrodden and he is uh and he he defends the woman who they're harassing and and you know uh dispatches with all of them and then this gets him into trouble because he you know it's actually russians but it's kind it's again very much like john wick where
JVL00:37:58he un un he accidentally he he yeah he accidentally fucks up the the cousin or the nephew of the
Sonny00:38:05the russian heavy right um and but as you say this movie i like i do not i do not love this movie um i don't even really like it that much um because of a couple of very specific things and and one of them is i don't know how to put this precisely there there are casting problems in this film not odin kirk himself who like again i think it's pleasingly incongruous to have bob odin kirk as the john wick it's it's like everybody else it's like everybody else you have the risa who's uh you know who's done some action movie stuff who is of course the guy from the wu-tang clan he's not terrible but he's playing for some reason uh his brother bob odin kirk's brother bob odin kirk's brother
JVL00:39:09who is a samurai japanese martial artist okay sure just an african-american and japanese i don't know what the problem is oh and he and bob odin kirk are brothers i don't see what the
Sonny00:39:23problem is sonny this is all pleasing it's all pleasingly incongruous in its own like weird way the real problem is christopher lloyd so christopher lloyd is cast as their father and i like christopher lloyd a lot i like christopher lloyd a lot but he's like 85 or nine he's old he's very old and he moves like an old man and this is the problem with the film because all of these 87 north movies are built around the idea of we are going to create things that our that our stars can do that keeps them in the action of the scene christopher lloyd is too old to do those things so he looks ridiculous when they kind of when they kind of meld him into the action and that's the one thing you can't have in a movie like this you you can have awesome they feel ridiculous but they can't look ridiculous right does that make sense am i am i explaining the problem here because it it the the again there's so many cool ideas and they all fall apart in the last 30 minutes because i don't believe what i'm watching i don't believe what i'm watching and that's that's a problem so uh anyway the movie i didn't think i didn't think the first one was very good i i was a i was a little surprised when they decided to make a sequel but not shocked because it was it's kind of built to be that and again this is another movie that starts pretty well it's got bob odenkirk is you know he's having he has to repay the debt that he incurred by burning all of the money that the russians had um and he's doing it by taking jobs you know uh every day for a competing mobster who uh the barber the barber who is played by this who's played by this this wonderful um actor who god i colin salman he's great yes you ever watched the arrow the the dc green arrow thing he was in that that's no but he was in the movie i i know and love him from is the first resident evil film he plays like the the head uh it doesn't matter um
JVL00:41:38but he's in the jonathan winston role right what's that who the the the john
Sonny00:41:46wick character um john oh yeah yeah the the ian mcshane character in mcshane character yeah yeah yeah yeah um the uh anyway so again the movie starts pretty well you've got these set pieces he's doing his thing he's still he's still trying to balance family life and work life and like it's not going well so he's like fuck it we're going on vacation we're going on we're going to go to the place i grew up going to and and they get there and it's like essentially a hub for drug trafficking again like these are all good ideas they're all good ideas one on top of the other and they just don't really work for reasons that are even harder to describe this time around i don't i don't i don't know what happened in this movie but something somewhere happened and i mentioned this huge avl because it's the thing that has stuck out at me it is it has stuck with me both of the times i've watched this movie there's a sequence very early in the first sequence of the movie there's a dog
JVL00:42:46there's a dog sitting in the interrogation room with him sitting in the interrogation room and
Sonny00:42:53you're like oh a dog what's this dog this is this again this is pleasingly incongruous why is this dog in this fbi interrogation room with bob odenkirk and then the movie starts the story starts he doesn't have a dog he there is no dog a dog shows up kind of in the background for five seconds and then runs away the dog again shows up kind of at the end and and and then he's in the interior and i'm just like why is this dog i spent so much time trying to figure out why this dog was there invested in the dog i was i was but it but it but it suggests to me that there was something somewhere it suggests to me that they shot a whole sequence with the dog that they ended up cutting for reasons of time or flow or whatever but they couldn't reshoot the opening sequence or they reshot the opening sequence to add the dog for some reason which would be even crazier because they don't have the dog anywhere else i was just like what is this dog why is this dog here so that was that was my this was my relationship with this movie i spent the entire thing wondering when the when the dog was gonna show up and start doing dog things and then no dog and that is like that's kind of how i feel about all there these movies are clever but sloppily put together in storytelling ways that render again pretty good action sequences unfun to watch
JVL00:44:25so uh i have the opposite experience okay which is that uh these are programmatic movies that are better than they need to be okay and are an entire standard deviation better than they would be if they had been made for Netflix so if if this script and this cast were signed and this was a Netflix project it would have cost five times the budget and it would have been one twelfth as good and I really just like it looks like a movie it doesn't look like something that is streaming everything looks competent. Yeah. Like it it feels cinematic. It is the type of movie that if I had seen this action, if this was like the action movie that I had gotten at age like 14 or 15, I would have been like man that's **** cool. You know in the way that I watched Highlander or Commando right or one of those movies and and was like oh man that's badass. I was like oh this thing is great. And I don't know Sharon Stone is the heavy in the second in the sequel, which is sort of funny. She's doing super ham and cheese work. Yeah. Which I'm there for. I thought it was it was great. Yeah. I don't know. I just it all. It all just kind of worked for me in the low key way. Which and again, I mean, it really does ape the John Wick series in the sense of like, hey, we're building universe. We've got backstories for everything and I mean, I actually think the first one's better than the second. Um for instance, the the Russian gangster is essentially Lao from the Dark Knight in that his job is that he is guarding the money for all the other gangsters and his top henchman is this black Russian and one of the recurring jokes is like he's this black kid but he's Russian and all the other Russians are like, what the **** It's a funny bit. Yeah. And in fact, when when when when Odin Kirk, you know, beats him up and he's, you know, this kid is laying mortally wounded and they're just like sitting there talking like Odin Kirk is on the ground. This kid is lying there. He's, you know, he knows he's bleeding out and he's like, who the **** are you? He's like, yeah, nobody. Are you Russian? He's like, yeah. It's just kind of again, it's it's black comedy but I don't know.
Sonny00:47:40It's sort of worked for me. Yeah. I I don't look. I don't. I don't. I don't. Everybody else seems to like these movies more than I do and I'm I've been trying to figure out why it is that I'm so resistant to them and I I really can't I can't put a real finger on it except like I keep getting. Connie Nielson. It's not Connie Nielson. I love Connie Nielson. She's she's great. I love Connie Nielson a
JVL00:48:09lot. I think her character in this is written to be kind of a
Sonny00:48:15herpy. Well, she's she's very shrewish and it it is like it is it is definitely uh speaking of the rewatchables there they they do talk about this sometimes where like you have this kind of running trope of like nineties girlfriend slash wives whose main character trait is like I don't believe in the hero right and that is that is kind of what she's doing here, but it's almost like they understood that and then they tried to change it for the second one and then they over did it. Yeah. They there's too there's too much of her being like I'm gonna defend the family and you know back up my man um I don't
JVL00:48:53know family of assassins. Yeah. We'll be a family of
Sonny00:48:56assassins. I don't I I maybe maybe I just don't like the family. Maybe I just don't like the family. Maybe I think that it would be better if he was just a lone uh you know maybe his family should be dead and he should just be taking care of this dog and then somebody and then somebody kills the dog you see and then and then after that after that he goes on a rampage of violence. I think this sounds like a hell of a
JVL00:49:23movie. I would see that movie. I think I've actually I've
Sonny00:49:26solved I've solved this. I should call Derek Colstead and just be like hey man have you ever thought about not having a family and just having a dog in a in a movie like this? Is that
JVL00:49:36is that a thing that would work? You know I uh I remember talking with Larry Miller once about show business and he was telling me that one of the things about show business was that you literally never had any idea who you would wind up working with. And he I we had a minor kerfuffle. He wrote something that referenced a metal band called the Buzzcocks and then the Buzzcocks were very angry about it because uh they said it like mischaracterized something they had said or something. I don't know. I remember talking with Larry and Larry was like really earnestly like oh we gotta make sure we get this right and stuff. I was like yeah obviously yeah. Um I was like I wanna make sure we gotta get this right cuz I'm a journalist. What why do you care? And he was like because in show business you never know. He's like I could wind up in a
Sonny00:50:35project with these guys someday. I was like really yes that's how
JVL00:50:39it works. You know they're a metal band one day and 10 years from now like the drummer from there is the host of some comedy showcase that I'm on or something like that. Yeah. I'm like okay yeah that is the world is funny like that. Johnny Knoxville is now on Fear Factor. Joe Rogan is now interviewing presidential candidates. Sure. Why not? Yeah. I uh that is
Sonny00:51:05that's that was something he had written for the the weekly standard for the daily standard. Yeah. Yep. I just imagine I like to imagine the buzz Cox like pouring through uh you know the the various news websites every day and be like hey John they mentioned us and then oh my god what are these **** talking about? This is
JVL00:51:26**** Larry Miller. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean I like to think that they uh they had a subscription. Probably not.
Sonny00:51:34Almost certainly. That's that's probably. Probably not. It was. I don't know. Alright. So you you like these movies. So I I forget. Did you like Bullet Train? You were big on Bullet Train, right? You like Bullet Train. A lot. In the in
JVL00:51:47almost the same way. Like I didn't. Yeah. Love it. Like but I liked it. I like this sort of hard action movie that is a little funny but darkly funny that is professional that has a charismatic star whose lead character is interesting and there's like something going on around it. That's I'm a simple man. You know like I'm not gonna watch that movie once a year. But uh can I can I kill an hour fifty on a flight across the country to that? Hell yes. Yeah. The decline of the programmer
Sonny00:52:26is a real problem. I and I I I feel like I should like this movie more than I do as a result. You know the the other movie that comes to mind. Did we do did we do the Jamie Foxx Vampire Hunter movie? Uh was that day watch? Yeah. Or night watch? Yep. So that that was a straight to Netflix movie is made by the same is made by eighty-seven north. This was this was one of the movies that they made for for Netflix or maybe it got shifted to Netflix during COVID. I can't remember. Um but the uh but that's another one where like again it's it's like eighty percent of the way there and and something about it didn't quite never never quite worked for me. Netflix movie. It did feel it felt a little like a Netflix movie. Um the
JVL00:53:18you know I just rebel against that **** like I really. Oh.
Sonny00:53:23Yeah. So Netflix is like the opposite of IMAX for you. Netflix if you like you hear IMAX movie you're like I gotta
JVL00:53:32go see this in a theater. Netflix is almost indistinguishable from CBS Primetime. Okay. A a theatrical production on Netflix might as well be the pit or NCIS or so
Sonny00:53:53like it it just don't talk about the pit that way. Pit the pit is delightful. I so I I'll save it for I don't even know
JVL00:54:01what the pit is. All I know is that I save it for outtakes.
Sonny00:54:04Save it for outtakes. Okay. Um alright. Uh well I I don't know. I don't do you have anything else to say about
JVL00:54:08that's all the time we're given to this episode. We'll be back next week probably with Mike Warren. Fingers crossed.
Sonny00:54:23Alright so I I have never been a procedural person like I watch Law and Order reruns on TNT or whatever if I you know am dying of flu but I like CSI ER I never watched I've like have never I've never been into any of these shows actually and I gotta say I kind of love the pit. I kind of I like I kind of really have gotten into it and I don't and and and like now I'm starting to wonder like should I go back and watch ER? Do it would I love ER cuz you know this started as
JVL00:54:59an ER. Young George Clooney. It's got Noah Wiley in it,
Sonny00:55:02right? It's got Noah Wiley in it. It's got Noah Wiley as the the doctor of the pit. Doctor Robbie. Is he playing the same
JVL00:55:09character that he played in ER? Is this a John Wells production?
Sonny00:55:13Functionally, yes. So, it's John Wells. So, the the the way this show came about was they were working on a sequel to ER and they couldn't make the deal work with Michael Crichton's estate. So, they just were like, well, it's just a it's just a hospital show. Why don't we just do it? And so, and so they did it and then Michael Crichton's estate sued them. They were like, this is this is the show we were talking about. You can't just do this. You can't just do this with Noah Wiley as the like head doctor that we like what do you and they were just like it's just a hospital show. We can do whatever we
JVL00:55:50want. It has nothing to do with anything. Um I I don't know if
Sonny00:55:54they ended up settling or what but it was like it was one of these it was one of these situations where they were both very obviously right like yes the Crichton estate was probably right to be pissed off about this cuz they like clearly just you know went and did their own thing and cut
JVL00:56:08them out but also. Perhaps the state should have realized they
Sonny00:56:13could do that before they yeah yeah also like why I well whatever this is a this gets an intellectual property tricky ground for me because as you know I love intellectual property sure at the same time like how long is the Crichton estate supposed to be like putting out new novels by Michael Crichton. I there's another one out this year. Is
JVL00:56:33there another one? Yeah. Yeah. I mean the Clancy's estate is
Sonny00:56:37still doing it isn't it? Yeah but they but they're like written by other people. They're not it's like you know
JVL00:56:43the Crichton ones are written by other people too. I assume
Sonny00:56:46but they but they have like Crichton's name on the it's like there was like a Michael Crichton and James Patterson.
JVL00:56:53One but there was also read the fine print on it. Hold on. New
Sonny00:56:57Michael Crichton book. Let me let's see. Let's see. uh uh now the most recent one is 2024. Maybe maybe I'm imagining a new one. No no Blackstone Publishing has made a seven figure deal with Crichton's son to acquire the worldwide print ebook audiobook rights to Crichton's first series of I like what? Again, how long is this **** supposed to go on?
JVL00:57:23He's been he's eruption of 2024 novel by Michael Crichton James Patterson based on a manuscript Crichton was unfinished the time of his death. Yeah, I've published four novels
Sonny00:57:37posthumously. Yeah, I how many how many will how many will there be?
JVL00:57:43I mean, I'm told they don't need the money anymore. Well,
Sonny00:57:47that's never when does anybody not need money anymore? That's
JVL00:57:51why they call it money. That's why they call it money. I'm sure it's fine.
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