#336. 'Wake Up Dead Man' (Netflix)
Listen to this episode ↗on Substack, where the show lives now
The main event is Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery, Rian Johnson's third Benoit Blanc film, and all three hosts are effusive: Sonny calls it the best-looking of the trilogy (crediting cinematographer Steve Yedlin) and the first of the three to treat its murder as a genuine "violation of the spiritual order" rather than just a clever game, praising how Johnson (an atheist) writes Blanc as someone who respects faith without ever undergoing his own conversion; JVL goes even further, ranking it a possible new addition to his personal pantheon of great detective movies alongside Gosford Park and the David Suchet Death on the Nile, and raving about Glenn Close, Kerry Washington, and the film's surprising, laugh-out-loud humor about influencer culture; Mike is equally won over by the film's dead-on Catholic verisimilitude (the genuflection sight-gag, the broken plastic Jesus figurine during the climactic phone call) and Josh O'Connor's grounded lead performance, though he and JVL both feel Jeremy Renner and Mila Kunis are wasted. Before getting to the movie, the trio spends the first third on typically sprawling banter: JVL's basement being jackhammered for a septic pump while he records from his mother-in-law's house, a long rollerblading-movies tangent (Sonny's beloved Airborne vs. Mike's childhood favorite Brink), Mike's saga of a poorly run youth basketball equipment handout, and a box-office check-in on Avatar: Fire and Ash's surprisingly soft domestic haul, The Housemaid, and Marty Supreme. They close out the discussion praising the film's two well-paced mystery "turns," Josh Brolin's hammy villain, and Andrew Scott's influencer-writer subplot, with JVL and Mike agreeing that only a non-Catholic filmmaker with genuine admiration for the faith could have pulled off something this sincere.
From the show notes
It's a Knives Out mystery, folks! Maybe ... the best Knives Out mystery?
Full transcript
Mike00:00:00Everyone thinks I did it. I didn't do it.
Guest00:00:03This goes way beyond normal police work. This is something you and I have not experienced. A perfectly impossible crime. This case is solvable, right? I'm incapable of not solving a crime. Oh, you'll see. It's fun.
Mike00:00:30Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast. I'm your co-host, Mike Warren. Joining me, as always, are my two co-hosts who are each on their own road to Damascus. Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at Sub-Beacon.com. New episodes every Friday. Join the conversation in the comments. Always a lively one. And you can only do that at Sub-Beacon.com. Tell your friends and family. We are going to be talking about Wake Up, Dead Man. Or is it Wake Up, Dead Man? Later on in the show. But first, let's hear about what's going on in our co-hosts' necks of the woods. That was overspoken. JVL, you got something to talk to us about, right?
JVL00:01:24So very briefly, because I really want to spend a lot of time today talking about this movie. And especially Sonny's conversion journey, you know, it's happening because the end of the show, Sonny comes out and says, and I think I'm doing our CIA, right? That's what we'll have in the outtakes. Um, so I, I, my audio quality sucks because I'm recording from my mother-in-law's basement because my house is being jackhammered because we are putting in a new bathroom down in the basement. Oh, and this is a problem because we. We are on a septic system and my house is on the side of a mountain, not a mountain, but a side of a hill. And, uh, the septic tank is sort of a, uh, the septic tank is where the main floor of the house is below the main floor of the house, but it is about four feet above the floor of the basement. And so in order to get the sewer line out, you have to put a pump in. And I, all this is new to me, but among the things that I did not know, uh, was that the way to do this is you jackhammer the foundation and you recess the pump under the floor. And I thought that sounded totally fine. Not a big deal. Love my contractors. A great guy. Uh, I said, let's do this.
Sonny00:02:52Tony. And then is it Tony from Tony from, uh, Secaucus the other way, the other way. I don't know. I don't know what that means.
JVL00:03:00I don't know what the other from Dublin.
Sonny00:03:02Irish. Oh, Richard from Dublin. You got it. You got a department situation. There's only, there's only two types of people.
Mike00:03:09There's only two types of people in the New York area.
Sonny00:03:12They're Irish or Italian. Okay. That's it. What about, what about the, what about the has seeds? You couldn't, uh, you know, not in my neck of the woods.
JVL00:03:20Oh, not in my neck of the woods. So, uh, so he shows up in the, uh, the pump is enormous. I had thought the pump. I mean, I don't know what your thoughts are when you think about pumps, but I'm thinking something like 12 inches by 12 inches. Yeah. And instead it's about a cubic yard.
Mike00:03:47Yeah. It's huge.
JVL00:03:50So he's jackhammering down like four feet.
Mike00:03:53Oh yeah.
JVL00:03:54Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, you know, that's going to take a while.
Mike00:03:56I mean, you don't, you don't want, you don't want some dinky. Little pump for your septic tank system.
Sonny00:04:02Well, but here's, here's, I mean, look, I, I don't, I don't want to manifest this into the world. I almost hesitate even to say it out loud, but my understanding of gravity is that if you have a giant tub of shit above a place, the only way this can possibly happen. End is with whatever keeps the giant tub of shit enclosed, failing and flowing into a lower space. Now, so which is where, which is where your basement is. If I understand again, my, my geography of houses, not really, but not
JVL00:04:50really. So it is the, it is the outflow drain itself, which is four feet above the, the, the, the grade. Of the basement. The actual tub of shit sits below that. Correct. So again, like if you could imagine like the outflow, if you were seeing the air, the outflow, uh, starts at around like your chest and goes down. But if you were to follow that and walk that, that it then drops off into the septic tank and the tank itself goes down like 12 feet, 15 feet. Oh, okay. Okay. So, uh, none of that, none of that septic waste is ever going to reach. Um, the, you know, you gotta get that thing pumped out every two years. So, you know, famous last words, but no, no, I, I agree.
Mike00:05:35Um, make sure you've got, I'm sure you will. The, um, the alarm on the pump, if there's ever a, uh, power outage or, uh, something else, because, so my parents are on septic, uh, where they live, they live on a lake and they're on well water and they have a septic system and they have an alarm that goes off if like the power goes out. Okay. Or there's any other thing that stops the pump.
JVL00:06:02But you see, Michael, Michael, I have a generator. Uh, and so if the power goes out, the generator goes on smart, because otherwise you can't get any water. Right.
Mike00:06:13And that's one of the reasons you have a Jenny is so that anyway, um, uh, things are
JVL00:06:18great here in New York city, uh, rustic living. It's fantastic. Uh, I did, I did remember this is, so you're talking about a Brownstone, right?
Sonny00:06:26This is like a, this is like a Brownstone. I don't know if you guys remember there's a New York.
JVL00:06:29Yorker piece about this, like a few years ago about how rich people in their Brownstones were going down and they, they were, this was a thing that was happening all throughout Brooklyn and Manhattan people with Brownstones because you couldn't build up, we're just building down. And so they were just excavating and excavating and putting full floors, two floors, three stories below the earth. And this was, you know, it was just all day jackhammering and there were noise complaints from people in adjacent buildings. And it was one of those classic New York or gilded age type stories. It's great.
Mike00:07:05I mean, this is unrelated, but since I think Sonny mentioned the, the Hasid, uh, wasn't there that whole thing a couple of years ago where the, some of those Orthodox Jews were, were digging tunnels right in Brooklyn or something. I missed that.
Sonny00:07:20There were, there were videos, there were videos of Hasidic Jews, like kind of popping out of tunnels in the middle of the street and people, it turned into, it turned into turned into, uh, a like semi-ironic anti-Semitic meme very quickly. It was, it was not, it was not, uh, but it was, uh, it was definitely, it was, that was a thing. That was a thing. I have, I have a serious question though. You live on, so you live on a hill, you live on a hill, so you have a natural slope, much like a King who lived on top of a hill and would put his castle there. And then there would be, so why not just let the waste run off? Just, just. Just dig a little trench and let it, let it pool up down in somebody else's property.
JVL00:08:04You know, I, because I care about the environment, Sonny, I care deeply about the environment. Okay. Just not the wetlands. Just a little rest development callback. Anyway, uh, what are you boys up to? What's going on? Sonny, talk to us.
Sonny00:08:20Um, I don't, I don't have, I don't really have anything super interesting, uh, to talk about here. It's, it's been, it's, it's been a very annoying winter for me because it's been like, some people will say this is the perfect temperature. It's been like 65 to 75 degrees all winter, more or less in Dallas. And I just like, I'm tired of it. I want cold.
Mike00:08:42I want actual cold. Oh, support. Yeah.
JVL00:08:45It's my kids can't even go outside without having a windbreaker on versus the rest of us.
Sonny00:08:52They don't need a windbreaker. They got to wear like shorts and stuff. It's like, it's been, it's been really ridiculous.
JVL00:08:58The rest of us are tired of it. Our children wanting to murder each other because it's five degrees outside.
Sonny00:09:03I'm tired. I'm tired of it. And I'm not, I won't be standing for it any longer. Cold air. You better get here quick. The other thing, the other, the other very quick thing was, so my, my, my kids both got a rollerblades for Christmas. My kids, both of them got rollerblades, which was very amusing to me because it's like rollerblades are back, but rollerblades are apparently back. But this means, have you guys ever seen the movie Airborne? Mike, I feel like you are the proper age to have seen it. Have you ever seen Airborne?
Mike00:09:30I don't recall Airborne. No.
Sonny00:09:32Maybe we should, we should do an episode on Airborne because it's one of the great films of the early 1990s that I don't think got a proper theatrical release. I'm pretty sure it was straight to Disney or something. It's like Bud Air. What's that? Air Bud. Is this like Air Bud? No, no, no, no. No, no. Air Bud is a different thing. Air Bud is a, I'm sure there was a-
Mike00:09:51Oh, this is Seth Green and-
Sonny00:09:52Seth Green and Jack Black and, and, and a bunch of other people. But it was, um, but it's, it's a really interesting movie because it was, it's like, it's like, you know how every generation has the like kind of fad movies where it's like, Hey, we're doing a surfing movie, surf ninjas.
Mike00:10:08Skateboarding movie. Yeah.
Sonny00:10:09But it's no, but it's not skateboarding. It's rollerblading. It's very specifically. Well, so this guy, so the, the, the full story of, of Airborne is a kid in Cincinnati has to go or a kid, a kid who is, he's a skateboarding kid. He has to move to Cincinnati and he, he can't do his surfing and he can't really, he's not really skating anymore. He can rollerblade, he can rollerblade. And there's a, there's like a really intense, like rollerblading subculture in Cincinnati, which is just very, all of it is very funny. It's all, it's all very funny. All those hills. And it culminates, it culminates in the most dangerous thing I've ever seen in a kid's movie, which is like a, like 17 mile downhill rollerblade race into oncoming traffic where kids are getting like thrown off of hills and stuff. It's like, it's, it's kind of like rollerball. But with more, uh, Seth Green and Jack Black, I think it might be Jack Black's first movie might be his first Jack Black cinematic movie has got to be, uh, Bob Roberts. Yeah. Cause he's like, Oh yeah, I guess that's true. That's true. That's Bob, Bob Roberts probably, but it's, it's anyway.
Mike00:11:17Well, well, it's interesting that you mentioned this movie because there is a rollerblading movie that I grew up watching, but it came a few years later and it was, it was a Disney channel movie. So it. It was like on the Disney channel and it was, um, it was called Brink and it's essentially this it's, well, it's not the same thing. It's basically like a guy who's into street skating, but, and there's like this rival
JVL00:11:42group that are like professional skating as opposed to, as opposed, as opposed to like
Mike00:11:47the, the professional team, no, the professional team that does like the X game style, uh, you know, um, uh, he lives by his own code, right? Well, he and his friend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He and his friends do it for the love of skating. Um, but then he, but then, but, but then he goes corporate because like he needs the money for these things and he's like trying to do it for the right reasons. But he does find at a certain point, maybe he's, maybe he's doing it for the wrong reasons. Maybe he's forgotten why he started in the first place. Exactly. But it also culminates in like a down there. There's a scene where there's a downhill skating race and there's like a very brutal moment where the bad guy like throws some gravel. Onto the street and like the hero like crashes. And it's like very, it's as a kid in 1998 who was doing a lot of rollerblading at the time, it was like traumatizing. It was like, Oh, I don't know if I want to take the skate again to kill you.
Sonny00:12:45They'll kill you. They'll kill you to skate wrong. Did you guys rollerblade? Yes.
?00:12:50Yeah.
Mike00:12:51Yeah. I went through a phase as well.
JVL00:12:54And downhill is the most terrifying thing in the world. You should never go. Down a hill and rollerblades. It's not like with a skateboard where you can actually go onto the side edge and stop.
Sonny00:13:04Oh, no, no. Oh, so this is this is one of the reasons why it was so terrible. So where I lived, so where I lived in Virginia, I lived on a steep, like 30 degree incline hill. I lived on like I lived at like the midway point of this, you know, probably. I don't know, 50 yards long, but like but like again, like like not quite roller coaster steep, but like steep hill. And so I when I would when I had to when I had to come home from rollerblading, I would have to come down that hill terrifying every time it was like Jenny, I don't I because I wasn't very good at breaking wasn't much of a breaker. So it was it was a lot of like it was a lot of like controlled crashing, which, you know, luckily we had some hedgerows, which was nice. It was a but it was a but no, like watching this movie was like I could I could die at any time. I could just like the kids in Airborne. Luckily, I don't think anybody does.
JVL00:14:02I think they're you're making the movie sound quite good.
Sonny00:14:05Sonny, it's is it fun? Well, look, it's yes, I saw I probably saw this movie a hundred times as a child. I like literally like I have I this movie used to be on HBO or Disney or whatever.
Mike00:14:18Did you wear out the VHS or something?
Sonny00:14:20No, I know. I never owned it. I never owned it and I never had to rent it because it was always on cable. It was it was constantly on cable. It was I again, I. I saw this is like this is like a rewatchables for me. If I if Bill Simmons ever called me up, it was like, hey, you want to come do the rewatchables? I'm yes, but only if we can do Airborne, the 1993 film starring Seth Green and Jack Black and a guy, the lead character whose name he played by an actor named Shane McDermott is now, I believe, a real estate agent. He's either a real estate agent or possibly a dentist. I may be mixing up my child actors. I think the kid from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is a dentist. Correct. He's a dentist. He's done. This guy is, I'm pretty sure, like a real estate agent.
Mike00:15:07By the way, by the way, Rollerblade is like Xerox and Kleenex. It is a brand name brand name that has become sort of the generic standard.
Sonny00:15:18Oh, I didn't know that.
Mike00:15:19Yeah, the generic.
Sonny00:15:19I did not have Rollerblade Rollerblades. You had inline skates. I didn't like it. I assume I also never had Rollerblade Rollerblades. I assume I also just had inline skates, but I don't think Rollerblades were the best of
JVL00:15:34the inline skates for very long. I think it was only at the beginning. And then once it became a real hobby, the Rollerblade brands were solidly a mid-level skate kind of thing. You got a dicks.
Mike00:15:48Well, it was. I definitely think like the the other skate company, skate companies, manufacturers got in on it, like definitely like CCM. Um, sold Rollerblades, uh, or sold inline skates, which is like the big ice skate, uh, uh, manufacturer, our, our, our, our mission. Um, but I, I will say that I, uh, I played roller or inline skating hockey. Um, cause that's what in Georgia, that's what to play hockey. That's where you started it. And then, um, I was talking about this just last night with my wife, um, because we were talking about how none of our kids know how to ice. And actually she doesn't know how to ice skate. And I said, well, I know how to ice skate. And I learned because like, I, I was a pretty good, like rollerblader and like, it's, it's kind of the same principle. Um, and she was like, you like, could you ice skate today? I was, I was like, yeah. She's like, when's the last time you ice skate? I'm like, maybe like 20 years ago. Like I, I, but like, it's like riding a bike. You just know how to do it once you know.
Sonny00:16:51Well, totally. One last thing on this and we can move on. Uh, but I, so I took, I took my son ice skating for, uh, for. Boy Scouts, like they're the Christmas boy scout. I may have mentioned this when we did the show last, but like I went, we went, we went ice skating and, uh, the first time I had ever gone ice skating was a year ago at this same party. And I was like very nervous cause I'd never ice skated before. I was like, I'm gonna look like an idiot in front of all these other dads. What else is new? What else? I'm gonna look like a complete fucking idiot. And, uh, and, and so I like get the skates on and I get out there and I've got like the buckets, you know how they have the buckets hold on to, and I'm like doing it on the
JVL00:17:28bucket Walker for real estate for, uh, yeah.
Sonny00:17:31And then exactly. I'm like walking around on, on, on the, and I'm, and then I realized after about 10 minutes of this, I was like, Oh wait, this is just rollerblading. Yes, this is, this is just rollerblading. So I could like got rid of the buckets and kind of tentatively went at it. And then I was like, Oh yeah. And then I was like Apollo Ono out there. I was like, my arms going like this. It was great. All right, Michael, what's up with you, buddy?
Mike00:17:54Oh, not, not much. Okay. I do want to complain a little bit. So I'm coaching my, well, that's okay. It's not that big of a complaint. Uh, I, I just think it's a little odd. So I'm coaching once again for the second year in a row, my middle son's, uh, basketball team. And, um, we have the whole getting the equipment necessary from the league process has been like bizarrely managed and poorly managed. Um, and think about it. Basketball. There's not a lot of equipment.
JVL00:18:30What is the equipment like three basketballs to use at practice?
Mike00:18:33So, yeah, it's, it's a few basketballs. It is the uniforms. Oh, and for like my level, which this, I think it goes until we'll, we'll do this until fourth grade is when it changes. You use, um, you just cloth wristbands to match up man to man defense, um, during the games. And so everybody has a different color wristband and it's totally weird.
JVL00:18:58Guarding green.
Mike00:18:59It's like, it's like yellow, white, black, red, and blue. And both.
JVL00:19:04So the green person guards, the green person, the black person, the black person. Okay.
Mike00:19:09Correct. And it's like, it's a good way to like, you kind of match up, you know, with size. Cause the kids are different sizes. So you don't want like the big man garden, the little man and all that stuff. Um, uh, I already have the wristband, so I don't need those. Cause I had them last year, but the big thing was getting the uniforms and, you know, so first of all, I went on the day, this was like before, before Christmas, uh, I went on the day to go pick them up at one of the local high schools and they were like handing things out and it was a little catch as catch can, you know, it was kind of like, Hey, what, what, what age? And I'm like, well, I'm second grade boys. And they were sort of like, Oh, okay. Um, here. And they started to hand me some uniforms and I said, um, Oh, can I get a different color? It's a long story, but basically my, my. Seven-year-old has been, um, has had a black uniform for baseball for the past three seasons and it, he's increasingly annoyed. Like he, he wants like something colorful. And so I was like, can you just not hand me like any other color, but black, like just that would just make my, like, I'm doing this for him, like whatever. So she's like, Oh yeah. So she hands me some light blue. Perfect. It's like, it's, it's, it's exactly what we're looking for, but she just kind of hands me this pile of jerseys and I assume it's from the second. She's like, Oh yeah. We've got, we got blue for second grade here and it's from the pile of second grade jerseys. So like, I just take it and I take the balls. I don't need a new bag. I don't need a new thing, whatever. Um, like an hour later, the, the league sends out an email. It's like, um, we've, we've closed down equipment pickup, uh, like an hour and a half early than like the time period that it was, uh, set for, and it was like, because we've run out of equipment, so we will have another equipment pickup day for later. And like coaches were emailing like, what? Like I was coming at two 30 because it was never. And, uh, and it was like, so it was like a little odd. I was like, don't you have like the right amount of equipment for each team sort of? And it's like you order, order it all. And then it's there to be picked up. Like, what do you mean you ran out of equipment? It doesn't make any sense. I got mine. That's fine. Whatever. Well, then it's Christmas. We have all the practices, you know, no practices until this week. We had our first practice. So, um, I was, you know, so the plan was bring the jerseys, pass them out at the end of practice. Uh, and we can use that to, to name our team. Um, and, uh, cause it's somewhat color coordinated and I pass out the jerseys and like, they're all massive. They're all like way too, like, it can fit. Like there are like, there are like three very tall kids, including my son for whom. Like these will fit and be fine. But we have like four really short kids and there's like no youth smalls and, and it's like, now I feel like an idiot because I'm like, well, I'm passing these jerseys. I should have checked for this. Right. I, you know, but I wasn't thinking, oh, I need to check to make sure the jerseys pull up and time off like Daisy Duke. Now, there you go. That, yeah, that, well, they're supposed to be tucked in, right? Like the, the, the, the referees really do sort of insist on, on tucking in the shirt. So, um, but like some of them were. Just like comically too big. So, so it's like, all right, well, let me talk to the league. Let me see if I can get, I mean, they seem to be just, you know, again, catches catch cam. Like, Hey, you want a Jersey? Here's an extra Jersey. You want these? When I went to go pick up the balls, by the way, they were like, how many balls do you want? I'm like, well, how many do I get? They're like, as many as you want. I was like, well, I'll take, yeah, I know. I was like, no wonder you ran out of equipment, like an hour and a half early anyway. So then I emailed the league and they're basically like, cause our first game is on, is on Saturday. Like we, we have our first game and like, and all the parents are like, well, do we, do we wash these? Do we wear, like, did the kids wear these, all this stuff? Like I'll, I'll email the league and figure it out. And so now we're at the point where we're going to do what the league emailed me back. Like the, the, the woman who runs the league and she's like, we'll do a Jersey exchange in like a week or two. Like we have games, this is never going to work. It's going to be a disaster anyway. So I just, I've. For all of the like money that we spend, I mean, it's a rec league, so it's not like an exorbitant amount of money, but it's like money and it's going to all this stuff. And it's actually pretty straight forward. Like there's not a lot of equipment to be, to be distributed for basketball. Like, I just don't understand how this was screwed up.
JVL00:23:46So custom jerseys for your team and just have them be bad-ass. No, oh, that's what the cost. No, you can't do it through like T public or cause you're just t-shirts. Right? These jerseys are just t-shirts. They're T they're T-shirts. So you could get, I mean, through, uh, custom ink or T public or one of these, uh, cafe press probably 25 bucks each. You could get super cool t-shirts that the kids could keep. You come up with your own team name. You could put their names on the back.
Mike00:24:19We have a, we have a great team name. So, um, it was voted on the shooting sharks because it's like blue. It's like, it kind of looks like great white shark color. Um, And, uh, my, my wife came up with, uh, an AI logo for the, um, for the snack signup, uh, page. So, I mean, it's all right there. It might as well just go ahead and, and print them out.
JVL00:24:41But does the shark have three eyes and six fingers?
Mike00:24:44It's very good. It's Google Gemini. I mean, that's, that's high quality. Um, anyway, uh, that's, so that's all what's going on with me. I just think it's weird. I like, I've never like experienced this in a, I hope you write a strongly worded letter.
JVL00:24:57To the leak office.
Mike00:24:59Yeah, that's not, that's going to get, you know, where that gets me. Absolutely. Nowhere. Um, that, that, and $3 to give me a cup of coffee. Um, all right.
Sonny00:25:09So cup of coffee.
Mike00:25:11Well, all right.
Sonny00:25:11Where I come from, a cup of coffee costs a nickel.
Mike00:25:15Uh, can we, can we please go ahead? Go ahead.
Sonny00:25:17I like the, the, the wristband things, uh, the wristband thing is what my, my son's team does as well. And it's really interesting because like, on the one hand, you just throw everybody in a wristband and they go out there. And they play, but if you're a competitive coach, one of the things you do is start clocking, which of the players is good on the other team and start trying to match wristbands with like player to player. And, uh, it gets, it gets amusingly, like it gets amusingly psychotic very quickly. I like it. And then, and then at the same time, at the same time you have, and then the other coach would like counter by like, Hey, Bobby switched with Jay switch with Jay, you guys switched wristbands. And then it's like, yeah. So that, that happens. Um, but the other thing that's, that's interesting. I don't know how your, how your, what your rules are, but for our rules, you can only play man to man defense and you can only, uh, you can't like block shots. You're not allowed to like, you have to like, or you're not allowed to like steal. You're not allowed to steal and you can only block shots. If you have your arms, like straight up in the air, you have to have your arms. You can't like lean over and like, you know, try it.
JVL00:26:23Right. Right.
Sonny00:26:24Which, which in turn like creates all sorts of drama. Cause like every time the coach, like the parents on one side or the other is like, he's reaching in, he's on the wrong wristband. He's got his arms and it's just like, oh God damn it. Just let the fucking kids play.
Mike00:26:39So I dealt with this last season. So this season they can steal. So my, my, my middle son's a little older than your son, Sonny. So like, it's probably going to change when it gets up to second grade or third grade or something. Um, because the, the rule in, in first grade, when I was coaching last season was very explicit. It was like no stealing.
JVL00:26:58Yeah. Um, and you know, there's no sound like a conservative crazy person, but this is the craziest shit I've ever heard. I agree. Stealing. You can steal. You did not grow up when Coney Island's public housing courts with a, well, nope, no stealing.
Sonny00:27:17Got to wait till you're seven till you can do stealing. Yeah. Well, you, you can, you can get in front of a pass and get it that way, but you can't reach in.
Mike00:27:25You can't reach in. Well, I, but I will tell you why that would be the, because we have a kid. He's on my team this year. He's on my team last year who like, if he were allowed to steal, nobody else on the entire court would have ever have the ball.
Sonny00:27:40Yeah.
Mike00:27:41Would ever have the ball. The other. And like, yeah, that sounds great, but it's not. You should learn.
Sonny00:27:44That's how they learn. That's how they learn that sometimes life isn't fair, but there's winners and there's losers. This kid's a winner.
Mike00:27:51I had the, I had the, the very unenviable position of like, okay, I'm first time coaching basketball. Like I want to make sure we play by the rules and do right by the kids and they're all learning and all this stuff. So yeah, I'm the problem, I suppose. But like, there's no, at that level, there's no refs. Sonny, I don't know about you guys, but like, yeah, we have refs don't start until second grade. So like we have refs. Yeah. Well, ours don't start till second grade. So like first grade and the kindergarten development league, which is not even a game. You're just like kindergarten coaches. Yeah, basically. No, it's called development. Um, it's the. But, uh, white people are crazy.
Sonny00:28:29Mike, who do you send to scout out the kindergarten D league games to make sure that you, you know, those kids are going to be feeding into the good teams next year.
Mike00:28:39I sent my 11 year old. He's he knows ball. So, um, anyway, uh, no, but anyway, it's just, I would have to be like, I would have to like tell my own kids to stop stealing the ball. And like, it was like, which was like terrible to be like, Hey, stop stealing the ball. And now for me to tell this. The same kid, cause it's the same kid be like, yeah, steal a ball. Like get that ball, like get in there. Um, a year later it's, it's, it's well, it'll be fine. Everybody, everything's going to be fine. So why don't we move on though? Uh, move on to the box office real quick. The first box office weekend of 2026. Number one, once again, avatar fire and ash. Uh, it is total gross domestically over, over $307 million. Number two. Zootopia two, uh, in, uh, that's six weeks in theaters and it's still number two. It's impressive. Um, with the housemaid and interestingly, Marty Supreme coming in at number four, uh, the eight 24 movie about, uh, about ping pong. Um, uh, by the way, another, another specific brand name that, that became a engineer. Um, so, uh, and then Anaconda at five, any box office thoughts?
JVL00:29:54I just have a question for you boys. Cause I was listening to the show you did with that. I mean, last week was fantastic. Um, so avatar is over 300 million domestic. It's going to do over a billion internationally.
Sonny00:30:08You, it's already, yeah, it's already over.
JVL00:30:10It's already worldwide. I have no, oh, you mean just the international? Well, I'm just total. So the global gross will be over a billion, right?
Mike00:30:19Yeah, it already is. Yeah.
JVL00:30:20Uh, I have yet to meet anybody who has seen this movie and I. Have not heard a single person or read a single thing about it. That sounds about right. It's like it exists in some weird phantom zone of the culture. And it's wild to me, even more so than the second avatar movie. Because in the second avatar movie, there was at least like, well, this high frame rate is really new. It's sort of immersive. And yeah, people talk about one more. This is just, it's like it doesn't exist. And yet somebody somewhere is going to see it. It's a front.
Sonny00:31:03So I think there are several different things going on. First off, many fewer people are going to see this one than the previous one. The box office. So if you look at the 19th day of box office on Avatar Fire and Ash, it's at $315 million. On the 19th day of the previous one, The Way of Water. It was at $457 million. That's without adjusting for inflation. That's without adjusting for inflation. So it's basically running a third behind of the previous one.
JVL00:31:42Which means they can't make another one. This is the last installment then.
Sonny00:31:45Which means, well they can because look, it's still going to get somewhere between $1.5 and $1.7 billion. $1.6, $1.7 billion I would say is the kind of. Target end zone here, which would be again about a third less than the previous one. $1.6 billion is, you know, that's still a lot of money.
JVL00:32:07Disney doesn't get a huge percentage of the foreign grosses, right? Disney's percentage of the foreign grosses is small.
Sonny00:32:11Right, well it depends on the market. You know, it gets a lower percentage in China. It gets somewhat higher percentages elsewhere. But yeah, no, look again, this is not a runaway hit. It will make money, but it also probably costs $350 to $400 million.
JVL00:32:26But if number four, theoretical number four, were to do another 30% decline? That would be, yeah, that would be hard. That would be $1.2 billion, $1.1 billion. That maybe doesn't make money.
Sonny00:32:42Yeah, so right. So look, I agree that another one is not a slam dunk. And this is still going to end up being, you know, it'll end up being the highest grossing movie released in, certainly the highest grossing, American Hollywood movie released in 2025. Once you include all of the 20, 20, 26 box office and everything. But like, you know, it's really, it's really struggling domestically. Like compare again, comparatively speaking, it will still probably end up being the highest grossing movie of the year domestically. But it's going to be a very soft $430 to $450 million, something like that. Why is it so light cliff here? What's that? Why is the cultural footprint so light? It's a movie that only exists in movie theaters. Yeah, I mean, that is like, I think that really is the long and the short of it. It's a movie that only exists in movie theaters. Nobody watches these. I saw somebody, somebody made a very funny point that I think was a joke, but I think is actually probably true. There's also like the Avatar movies do not appeal to. What we would broadly describe as the queer subculture, right? Like, so like there, there's no Avatar drag shows. Like there's no, there's no, you don't, there's not a lot of other shipping.
Mike00:34:01There's not, you know, that stuff for other properties.
Sonny00:34:05Yeah. Oh yeah.
JVL00:34:06Yeah. Like, I don't know. You've seen Avatar stuff at like the cosplay stuff at the comic cons. I've seen as very, very rare.
Sonny00:34:15It's hard. It's hard to cosplay because you have to be, you have to be built like a supermodel to even like remotely pull it off. And most cosplayers not built like supermodels. Just going to throw that out there. Not on my.
Mike00:34:26I'll go.
Sonny00:34:27Well, it depends. I mean, again, uh, that's a joke. I, I, now I started thinking about it and it's now I'm thinking about Mike and what he's looking up. It's not, not good. Um, but it's, but it's, uh, it's, it's interesting. It's interesting that this is, this is so soft. Um, I, uh, I do think that you, that Disney would be, I wouldn't say Disney is a definite no on, on, uh, another one. But I do think that. They would have to really, the problem for Disney though, is that they've got like a whole avatar theme park integration. Yeah. So, I mean, it's like, it's not, it's not quite a whole world, but they have like a big, big part of animal kingdom in Disney world is avatar themed. Like it's, it's, uh, it's, it's not unlike the, uh, the star Wars galaxy's edge.
Mike00:35:16I had no idea. Kate Winslet was in these movies.
Sonny00:35:20Oh yeah.
Mike00:35:22She was not the first one.
Sonny00:35:23Kate Winslet is in. No, she's in the second one. She's the, um, she's the, the like queen of the water, uh, the queen of the water, uh, avatar people, the water, uh, the Navi, the Navi.
Mike00:35:38I remember the Navi. That's as much as I remember.
Sonny00:35:41Uh, okay.
Mike00:35:42All right. Bizarre.
Sonny00:35:44Anyway, the, the, the only other thing that's kind of interesting about box office right now is that it looks like, I would say, I'd say there's a very good shot of, um, uh, the housemaid. Breaking a hundred million dollars, which I don't think anybody thought was going to happen. Uh, that, that's going to make a hundred million dollars domestic. I don't know. I haven't seen it yet. I, I, I really, uh, some research next week show need to do some research here. If so, no, but this is no, but this is a movie that's aimed at women. This is a movie for women. This is a movie for women.
JVL00:36:17Want to see them to women.
Sonny00:36:20Women want to see women want to see Sydney Sweeney get her comeuppance. I think because she's like the villain, right? She's the housemaid. She's the.
Mike00:36:26The titular house and Amanda Seyfried is the, is the protagonist, right?
Sonny00:36:30Yeah. She's the housewife. Well, I don't know. She's the housewife. I don't know that she's the protagonist. Do we really want Amanda Seyfried to win over, uh, Sydney Sweeney?
Mike00:36:38I want them to fight.
Sonny00:36:40Not a hundred percent clear to me. The other, the other last thing I'll say is Marty Supreme, uh, has done about $60 million domestic. It, it could also get over a hundred million, depending on what the Oscar nominations look like in a couple of weeks here. Um, which, uh, would be, which would be. An enormous win. It really does kind of cement Timothy Chalamet as like, Hey, here's a, he's a star. Uh, and it would be the highest grossing, uh, the highest grossing, uh, a 24 film domestically of all time. So like that, there's that, there's that. Well, there you go.
Mike00:37:14All right. Um, no more box office thoughts, I guess.
JVL00:37:17Let's get to the Catholic stuff.
Mike00:37:19Yeah. Let's, let's, let's talk about this movie. Sonny, do you want to give us a big boy review of. This movie, which is called wake up dead man. And I think it's subtitled a nights, a knives out mystery, but that's not actually the title of it. Anyway, sorry. I don't mean to step on you. Give us a review of wake up dead.
Sonny00:37:39Wake up dead man, a knives out mystery directed by Ryan Johnson, starring Daniel Craig as Benoit Blanc featuring an ensemble cast that stars Josh O'Connor, Glenn Close, Josh Brolin, Millie Kunis, Millie Kunis, by the way, great, great surprise seeing her in this movie. I was like, Oh, Millie Kunis. I haven't seen her. I haven't seen her in forever. I love her. Jeremy Renner, Kerry Washington, Andrew Scott, Kaylee Spaney, Daryl McCormick, and Thomas Hayden Church. Thomas Hayden Church. Haven't seen him in a long time either. So don't forget Jeffrey Wright is Jeffrey Wright is also in this. There's a, it's a good cast, good cast all around. All right. So the, the premise, I look, this is like all the rest of the knives out movies, right? It's mystery, right? It starts with, there's a murder. There's a, there's a dead body. There's a dead body. In this case, it is Monsignor. Wicks who's played by Josh Brolin with just the, like, I love it when Josh Brolin goes hammy and he is a little bit hammy here. It's a, it's a fun, fun turn from him. He plays Monsignor Wicks, who is a, a very conservative minded Catholic priest. It's us against the world. We have to fight. We have to fight with Christ's power against the decadent outside world. And Josh O'Connor comes to his parish after punching out a clerk. What's what are they? Called Deacon Deacon after he punches out Deacon. He gets, he gets sent off to this Catholic church because you know what the Catholics like to do with their problems. They just send them somewhere else. You know, Hey, go, go hang out over here for a while. That's my, that's the only bit of Catholic bashing I'll do here. I, that's it. That's it. The, the in, in the course of doing this, he finds that the church is, is, is run down and we learn all of this through the dramatic device of a letter that we, we learned that Joshua. O'Connor, the Joshua O'Connor character, father Judd has written to Benoit Blanc, the Daniel Craig detective. Uh, we, we learned that the, the, uh, the parish is collapsing. It's just a tight little core group of parishioners who are the only ones who have been able to tolerate, uh, Monsignor Wicks's, um, nastiness and bigotry over the years. Uh, and when Monsignor Wicks is killed, uh, Benoit Blanc comes in to solve the, uh, the mystery and everybody thinks that father Judd did it. Part of me kind of, well, I won't, I won't, we won't spoil anything just yet. We'll, we'll spoil, we'll, we'll get spoilers in a minute and they solved the mystery. That's, that's all I want to say about that. We, we can break down the mechanics of the mystery itself in a minute. There's some interesting stuff about impossible murders and, you know, uh, the, the various forms that the murder mystery takes that this, this movie is doing interesting things with. I just want to talk about, I want to talk about, uh, I want to talk about two things. First is that this movie looks great. This movie looks fantastic. It is, it, it, it looks so much better than the second, uh, the most beautiful movie to
JVL00:40:35ever, the most beautiful content ever made for Netflix. I think that's, would you guys agree? That's, it's totally, it's right up there.
Sonny00:40:43It's, it's, it's like an actual film and a beautiful, if we're not including things that they picked up, I don't, I, you could, I, you could also make the case for Alfonso Cuaron's Roma maybe. But this is a, this is a, this is a, it's a great looking movie. It is, it is soaked with color. The, uh, it's shot by, um, the longtime cinematographer for, uh, Ryan Johnson, Steve, Steve Yedlin, who's worked with him on a bunch of other things. Uh, like, like everything he's worked with him on everything, including the previous two Knives Out films. Um, uh, and the first Knives Out film also looked very good. I rewatched it before I saw this, like, I don't know, a month ago. Um, and, uh, and that, that movie looks really good. Really good. Cause it's, but it's also like shot essentially at, in one location. It's at a house. It's got this cool kind of gothic-y house and it's, you know, shot all darks and lights and great. The second one did not look very good. The second one looked bad. I don't, I don't know if you guys remember that one. It looked like CGI.
JVL00:41:40It almost felt like it was shot on the volume.
Sonny00:41:43So much CGI. It just, the whole thing looked fake and felt fake. Um, but this, this looks good. It feels good. And it, it feels like a real movie. It doesn't feel real. It feels like a real movie. And there's a difference there, right? Like there's this great shot where we're learning the backstory of Monsignor Wicks's mother, where she like bursts into a church hall and she's all, she's drenched with, with sweat and rage. And there's this giant kind of like Italian giallo moon behind her, this blood red moon. And it just bathes the whole thing in red light. And it looks, it looks fantastic. The whole thing looks fantastic. Um, the whole movie frames so many shots.
JVL00:42:21Interestingly, Benoit Blanc. Flipping through the, the square, the diamond shaped window with red and blue on it.
Sonny00:42:29And it's, it's, it's amazing. Yeah. And it's, and it's lit really well too. And like this, you know, no one will accuse Ryan Johnson of subtlety in anything he does. And this is, this is a movie that does not use light in a subtle way. There's a lot of like beatific sun beams coming in when, when father Judd is talking about the true meaning of, you know, faith and confession and priesthood, et cetera. And then the light goes away when it gets a little more, you know, a little more, what's the word? Rational. Ironic or rational. It's, it's just a, it's, it's, it's a great, it's a great, great looking movie. I will say, I like this the most of all three of the Knives Out films for this second reason that I'm going to mention, which is that I, we've talked about Agatha Christie before we've done, we've, we did the, before Mike was on the show. We did, um, uh, the murder on the Orient Express, the Kenneth Branagh one, and we did the death on death on the Nile, I believe. And then did we do the, did we do the third one?
Mike00:43:35I think we did the third one when I, we did the third one.
Sonny00:43:37Yeah, we did the third one, but I, I have always, I've always preferred those to the Agatha Christie books themselves because they, they treat the murder less as a game and more as like a fracturing of humanity. It's like, there's like real pathos. In those, uh, in those movies that I, I have always found absent from her books. I'm not a big fan of her novels. Um, but the, but those, those movies do. And the other two, the first two knives out films have done the kind of like murder as a game thing before it's, it's all like, Oh, look how clever we are. Look at, you know, everybody. And you don't really empathize with any of the potential victims because everybody's so terrible. Um, and this movie, I think does a much better job of treating the murder. Uh, of Monsignor Wicks, not because Monsignor Wicks is a good person who will be missed. Um, but treating his murder as like a real violation of human order, a real, a real violation, uh, like a spiritual, it's, it's a violation of the spiritual order. Um, and, and that is, that is made all, that is all made possible by the fact that Johnson, who is himself an atheist, never treats it. We're never, uh, at risk of Benoit Blanc having a conversion himself. He does not, he is not going to come into the faith, but he understands the importance of faith to these people. And that is why the final revelation, I, there was a guy on Twitter who was like, I didn't like that movie because Benoit Blanc doesn't do anything at the end. Somebody else spills all the beans. And I was like, you are the worst movie watcher I've ever seen in my entire fucking life. Like that is, you, you, you don't know how to watch. You literally don't know how to watch movies. You should stop. You should just stop watching movies. Um, go to your tech talk. I was, I was like, and I, like, I found myself in the weird position of defending a Ryan Johnson movie. Cause I'm, you know, I'm, I'm hitting miss. Like, I think brick is very good. Uh, I think looper is interesting and kind of fun. Obviously the last Jedi is, is a big miss. Uh, and the, the, the other knives out movies are kind of hit and miss for me. Um, but I thought this was, I thought this was very good, even as it relies on a lot of his, again, unsubtleties. It is, it is not a, it is not a subtle politically. This is not a subtle film. Uh, ideologically, this is not a subtle film, but in one very specific and I think important way, the treatment of religion, the treatment of faith, it is very subtle and it is very supple and it, and it, it just, it's, it's really, it's really kind of marvelously done. Um, and I, I have to salute him. Uh, I have to salute Ryan Johnson for that. Cause it's just. It's just very, it's very, uh, it's very good. It's very moving. Um, and, uh, yeah, so. Thank you, Sonny JVL.
JVL00:46:30I, I, I loved it so much and I am very lukewarm on the first knives out movie. And I really did not like glass onion. I had no idea. Ryan Johnson had a film like this in him, uh, both as, as the director, but more so as the writer. So you'd say it's, it's not subtle in any way, except the hardest way. Which is the religious way, which is funny. Like that's the, the hardest aspect to pull off. Subtlety is on the faith stuff and he nails that. It is so funny. I can't believe you didn't mention the humor in it. It is very funny. Yeah. I mean, but it's funny about, it's funny about star Wars. It's funny about writing. I don't know if you guys catch it, but, uh, one of the characters, uh, Andrew, what's his name? Andrew Scott, Andrew Scott's character is a writer. And there is a split second where we see his, his manuscript, his draft. And if you pause it beneath the title says approximate word count, 783,000.
Sonny00:47:39I did see that. I saw that. I saw that. And like my honest response to it was that's not nearly enough pages. When I, when I saw what I, when I saw like, the actual manuscript, I was like, that's like, that's like one hundred, the number of pages he needs.
Mike00:47:57He had other stacks all around.
JVL00:47:59I, I was on the floor. It is funny about social media and the influencer culture because I, so the, the son, so Kerry Washington's son, who is who he's black and he is a failed congressional candidate. I think he talks about it. He was the Republican golden boy. And he takes through all of this, this stuff.
Sonny00:48:26Like, you know, I, I tried the Rhino. I tried the, you know, the QAnon. I hit the race thing. I hit the gender thing. I hit the, everything is the thing.
JVL00:48:34Right. And so that is not actually a piece of political humor. That's a piece of internet influencer humor, right? This is, and it's hysterical. It's so funny. Benoit Blanc's character is amazing. I am sorry. Did we, just as an aside, did we realize that Daniel Craig has morphed into Robert Draper?
Mike00:48:56He does have longer hair like, like Rob.
JVL00:48:59He looks like Robert Draper. Now it's very, very strange. The New York times reporter, anybody who's met Robert will know what I'm talking about. Um, uh, the, the, um, my lacunas, his character is really sort of channeling Francis McDormand from Fargo. Uh, it's just, it's like very, no nonsense. Like what the fuck is going on here? She's great. And it, uh, Glenn Close is amazing and everything. My main, I've always maintained that Glenn Close is what we all pretend that Meryl Streep is. Yeah. I do not care for Meryl Streep.
Mike00:49:35Totally.
JVL00:49:35I think of Glenn Close as the great American actress of her generation. Um, and it is, and then there's beautiful writing. There is a moment where Kerry Washington is being accused by her son of just being, uh, bitter over not getting the money or something. And she has a line, I wrote this down, um, because the line was so good. She said, that money is one Psalm in the Bible of my bitterness. Oh, that's like Faulkner-esque. It's so good. Yeah. Um, uh, I, I would say, so I, I have a pantheon. I think detective murder mystery movies are very hard to do well, um, and I think very few of them are done well. I have now three that I believe are truly great. Uh, and this might be number one. I need to let it sit for a couple of years to see what I, what I, how it ages with me. But, uh, Gosford park, which is amazing. The David Souchet version of death on the Nile, which was a short film done for BBC. And, uh, and then this and the cap. The Catholic humor is so good. So good. My, my buddy, uh, Katie McGrady, who has a Catholic show on Sirius XM. Um, she interviewed the priest who was the consultant on the most.
Mike00:51:08Oh, I knew there had to be a priest consultant on this movie.
JVL00:51:12There had to be the Catholic stuff is all so dead on, dead on, dead on. And, uh, it's so I, there's a
Mike00:51:21moment JVL to the, to this, to this specific point, there was a fantastic moment, um, and I guess we'll get into some spoilers in this, um, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, um, so near the end, when, uh, when Glenn Close's character is confessing, uh, as it were, um, and so there's sort of a flashback to what, what, what is happening, uh, with the, so she walks in to put the flask in the, in the little hideaway, uh, to hide it and the panel in the hideaway. Yes. Um, and this is, this, this is her, this is her kind of first moment of like, of sitting, of doing something bad. She's basically on done the first step of like her murder of this, of this priest. And she turns around and walks out and just in the background, genuflects to the altar, which was. Brilliant. It was like, of course, that's what she would do. 100% is what she, she wouldn't, she didn't even think about it. She just did it. And it's, it's the, it's, it's the kind of thing that if you're not Catholic, you're, you're not, you, you like, well, you, you might clock it, but you're not gonna like kind of appreciate what that means, but if you are, it's this attention to detail that just adds to this. It adds to the verisimilitude of the portrayal of Catholicism. In a movie that is outside of all that just kind of bonkers campy murder mystery stuff, and it brings me to my sort of the reason this movie works for me. I did not see glass onion, but I did see knives out and it really left me cold. Frankly, I, I didn't care for it. Um, and, uh, but what, what, what makes this movie work for me is that everybody, everybody who's acting, even Glenn Close, who I think is, does, uh, has a phenomenal performance here, everybody in the town, um, certainly everybody in the, the parishioners, they're all sort of like some degree of camp or some degree of sort of almost like overdoing it except, and I, I, except for Josh O'Connor, uh, as, as so good, isn't he, he is, he is so, um, so real in, in, in this and, and, and is sort of plays it. Straight while everybody else is playing it, uh, heightened and it's, that to me was the, the, the key that unlocked this, this movie for me, it, it was, it felt like he was, he was from a different movie, but in a, in a good way, in a, in a way that's sort of like, and you, there were, there are these moments in the movie and the big one is the, is the, the, the phone conversation, um, which is, which, which won the movie won me over on the movie. It was a conversation with Louise and like, and, and that, that was sort of the culmination of this, I mean, it's, it's sort of the murder mystery version of like, of, uh, Bob Newhart, you know, like everybody else around me is crazy and I'm sort of driven crazy by them because I'm normal. Um, I, I, so I, I loved Josh O'Connor in this, in this movie and I love how they wrote him and there is, I don't even know if Ryan Johnson even under, maybe I should give him the benefit of the doubt here, but I don't even know if he knew what he was doing in this portrayal of, of the faith and this portrayal of this debate. And it's the best, it is the most honest portrayal of a priest in a Hollywood movie that I've ever seen by far.
JVL00:55:08Yeah. Maybe the greatest Catholic movie of all time. I don't, I mean, that can't be true. I'd have to think about it, but certainly the best Catholic movie of recent memory. Yeah. It's me. So I, Sonny, I think I'm wondering. How this yeah, I found myself wondering how this plays for a non-Catholic audience. Can you, can, if you're not Catholic, can you get anything out of it? Is it funny to you still?
Mike00:55:33Is it meaningful to you still? It must be.
Sonny00:55:36Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I feel like, look, you guys joke a lot about me converting to Catholicism, it's not gonna, it's not gonna happen this week or any other week. Probably. But, um, but I would say, but, but, but no, but I mean, look, this is, this is he, I, what I found watching the movie was my own feeling about religion. Um, in, in a very key way, which is that there is, I have a lot of, I have a lot of respect for the religious and for religion and for the power of faith and the idea of faith and like what faith does for people, it's just not, it does. It's not me. It's just not, but, but. Understanding that. And, and this is why I do think Blanc's character is so important to this because Ryan Johnson is able to, I mean, as much as Blanc exists as anything, he exists as a Ryan Johnson stand in, he is like the super clever guy, right? But he is also the man who does not have faith and yet understands the importance of faith to everybody else. And he has like, I, I, I saw somebody else complaining. I'm like, oh, well, Blanc is such a, he's so, he's so dismissive and he's such a jerk at the end of the movie. He should have had a, you know. A road to Damascus moment of his own. And like, that would undercut the whole power of the film. That the power of the, the power of the film is under, is, is his understanding of the power of this for everybody else. And again, this is how I have, like, you know, again, this is how I have always looked at religion is, uh, you know, it, it, it is, it is, it is not for me, but I admire what it does when it is working properly for others.
JVL00:57:18Like Monsignor Wicks.
Sonny00:57:20Um, well, he's got, yeah, he's got, you know, different, different view of the faith.
JVL00:57:27By the way, so the, the shots in the forest with the trees where you have those lines of trees and the mist and the fog behind it again, just, oh, looks like a million bucks.
Sonny00:57:40I, I, I remember watch I, so I've, I've seen the movie twice now. I watched it again last night before, before the show, uh, and watched it like a month ago. Um, and I, uh, I. Both times thought to myself, did he though, how many of those trees are real? Like, is that in a real forest? Is that, is that, was that all?
Mike00:58:01So I, I don't know about the real forest. I looked up however, cause I, there was something, something about this movie that is very interesting, um, to me was that, yes, it takes place in some sort of, you know, a fictional small town in upstate New York, uh, but it doesn't look. It almost feels alien. Like it doesn't feel.
JVL00:58:20Like it, it actually feels like the city, the town in twin peaks a little bit.
Mike00:58:26Yes. Yes. It has exposure. Yeah. 100%. Like, yeah, like it's not real. And, and, and it turns out that this was filmed in, um, in England. It was filmed at, uh, that church. The exterior of the church is a, is a real church. It's a, um, it's an Anglican church in, um, in some place in, in, in Essex. Is the interior of the church real? No. So that's, that's a. Set.
JVL00:58:50Oh, wow. That's a really nicely designed set.
Mike00:58:53Yeah. Um, and, uh, but the, the effect of it is like, yes, it takes place in New York. You know, it's in America, but it's, it, it feels like it, it feels like a storybook, uh, location. And that was, again, even the setting itself felt heightened and that had an, a great effect on when the movie stops cold with that, I just keep going back to that phone call with Louise or Louisa or whatever her name is. Like it stops the movie cold in, in a good way. And it, it, it, it brings everything. I mean, you even see Josh O'Connor's character becoming, becoming manic. And there's that, there's a, there's a shot where, so they've right. They've sort of been coming, becoming manic and searching this, you know, knickknack essentially for something and they've broken it and they've taken it apart to try to find some clue and they've broken the cheap little plastic Jesus figure that's on the top of it. And he's talking to this woman and he ha he has this moment where he is brought back to his, I mean, they talk about Catholic movie, like a reminder of his vocation, his, his, his vocation, not only literally, right. His vocation that he's taken with the church, but his, his true, his calling as a, as a person, right. What does he call to do is it's called to be a priest. And he, and he just, there's a brief look at the broken Jesus figure. And it, it, what was, what, where we, as the audience are sort of like also kind of manically wanting to know what happened, how did it happen? What's what's going on? What's what's the mystery. Um, I, I think, or certainly this is, this is how I experienced it. I was sort of brought up short as well. And like, gosh, what have, what have they done? What have I been doing? Like watching this movie, trying to, you know, and here's this woman and the, the actress, I don't know who she is, who plays Louisa, like. It, it, she's incredible. Um, and the, and some of it is, you know, she's talking about a mother who is, who has dementia and she said things and not directly, but like, I, I am aware of this in people in my own life and the pain that, that, that she's expressing and, and the, the fear of being alone in that moment, I mean, it's just also real. And it just, it's like, it's like a, it's like a Dolly zoom shot where you're just like, oh, wait a second, this is, this is, um, there's more here.
JVL01:01:21It's like the one real piece of suffering in a movie. It's all artifice, right? They said that is a real thing that happens in the real world that we all hear about and we all know about.
Mike01:01:32So true.
JVL01:01:33We don't have murders, right? We don't have priests being killed for $80 million diamonds, but we, we all know that. That's what it's movie. Yeah.
Mike01:01:41And that's the, that's his vocation. That's, that is what he is called it. That's what we are all called to do is to like be present in. In the real world and you know, we, I'm sorry, I can go on forever, but like just be present in the real world and, and not fight the world, but to, I mean, he, the things that he says, the words that he says in this movie, it's like, I'm like looking around, like, uh, did, is this, is this some sort of like secret did the Vatican fund this movie to like secretly like get, uh, just straight up Catholic, uh, ideas and catechism into the best Catholic
JVL01:02:17recruitment movie ever.
Mike01:02:19Totally. It's I, I was, I was, uh, impressed by it. I, I don't like some of the other choices in this movie. Um, I was unimpressed with Jeremy Renner. Um, I just found him to maybe he wasn't giving anything to do.
JVL01:02:32Can I, uh, can I just give you guys a little dagger? I was watching Shannon favorite and I were watching this and about a third of the way through the movie favorite says, you know, the guy is the doctor. Looks weirdly like a fat old version of the arrow ball. Oh, bow and arrow guy from the Avengers movie. Well, I said, sweetheart, that's Jeremy Renner. He's the actor who played Hawkeye in the Avengers movie. And she looked at me with this look of horror. She's like, what happened to him? I was like, what happened to him? Is it just, he got older. That was 20 years ago. And she's like, yeah, he almost died.
Mike01:03:07Yeah. Really? This is his first movie back from, from the snow movie or was it snow black?
Sonny01:03:12Remember he got like run over by his snowmobile. Uh, no idea.
JVL01:03:17Yeah. He got, he got like run over by a snowmobile.
Sonny01:03:18He almost lost his leg. Like he, he was, he like almost died. Uh, and that, that's, that's probably, that's probably why it doesn't look great. Well, I'm going to go shame her with that. You should, you should be like, oh, you know, he looks sick with that pop up.
JVL01:03:32Cause he looks amazing. Suffered amazing for a guy who almost died.
Mike01:03:37Well, I didn't, I, I was, I was sort of bored with his character. Frankly, I was, I was not, he did not have a lot to do.
JVL01:03:43Like he, he registers less than every, everybody else. Kerry Washington is fantastic.
Mike01:03:48Um, yeah, I, I was, I was less impressed also with Mila Kunis. I just, not with her, but I didn't think she had much to do, frankly.
Sonny01:03:56Um, so I, well, they're, they're both plot. They're both plot devices, but yeah, which is fine.
Mike01:04:01That's what there should be in this movie. I get it.
JVL01:04:02I just, I also love the way that, so the, the mystery takes two distinct turns. Yeah. And the pacing of those turns is perfect. Like the, the, you know, it, it reorients the entire mystery twice.
Mike01:04:18And at the exact right time, the first turn, I was like, it happens and, or it begins to happen. And I like paused it. I was like, there's no way this movie is like at the point. And then it was like halfway over and I was like, wait a second. Like, you know, and that really threw me.
JVL01:04:35So, uh, but in a good way, um, I loved, uh, the rig, the guys, uh, the guy's phone rig
Mike01:04:42that he's got, uh, like walking around with hilarious. I just, I like everything about that.
JVL01:04:48There's like, you know, one of you needs to tell me what they said. And I'm like, we'll never tell you. And he's like, I taped the whole thing. Want to see it?
Mike01:04:54Like, it's hysterical. Okay.
JVL01:04:56Was it, was the Benoit Blanc character this funny in the first two movies? Cause I don't, I thought of him as like wry, but not laugh out loud. Again, I was just on the floor throughout this entire movie.
Sonny01:05:09I thought it was so funny. Well, this movie, this movie is definitely funnier than the first two though. The first one's pretty funny too. Like, no, the, the best line, the best line from Cy, who was the influencer character, is when he's like, uh, I, I taped all this father. I'm going to tag you on Instagram. Is that all right? And father Judd's like, I'd rather you didn't. He's just like, I'm probably going to do it anyway.
Mike01:05:28Yeah, that's great.
JVL01:05:29That's great.
Mike01:05:30It is a real, truly a set, a send up of, of that influencer culture, right? Cause it's like, he doesn't, I mean, that's the thing. It's like, I think people will make a big deal about, or maybe have, or maybe won't care or whatever about like, oh, this is, it is truly like a send up of kind of the, the right wing, uh, fever swamp stuff, you know, and the, I mean, quite literally the one guy has a moat around, you know, fortress, but like, but it is, but, but the satire is, is also kind of, it's, it's, it's, it's a little off from the, the obvious here. It's, it is about the, that the, the nihilism really of like influencer culture. It's like, okay, like whatever, whatever I can be, whatever I need to be, to be famous. Um, it's a really great center. So, um, yeah. I enjoyed it. I, it was fun. Um, I just love, I love the Catholic Catholicism of it all. Even the stuff that was like, kind of like that, the sort of, um, where he, where he stands, it's like a ship prowl. Yeah. Uh, which is like, be very kind of out of place, frankly, in a, in a Catholic
JVL01:06:37weird in a Catholic church.
Mike01:06:39Totally. The lack of the cross, you know, all of that was like, you know, it sort of sets you up to think the movie is going to be kind of an anti-Catholic and it's really not. And, um, it's, it's great.
JVL01:06:50I, I posit to you gentlemen, that it's possible that only a non-Catholic could make a movie like this because, uh, a Catholic who tried to do this, it would have become ham handed somehow.
Mike01:07:09Well, there's, there'd be too much of the known, um, the known battle lines would sort of need to be.
JVL01:07:17It would have been, it would wind up like the chosen or something or saccharine.
Mike01:07:24Well, like Josh O'Connor's character would have sounded like James Martin and he doesn't. He doesn't right. Like, like, like, uh, yeah, I don't mean to cast dispersions, but like he's, he's a young
JVL01:07:37Martin, the editor of America magazine is that he's a priest. He's a, he's a lit priest, Sonny. Yeah. He's a, he's just like, what's happening here. I've lost control of the show you're talking, you're talking about
Sonny01:07:47you're talking, you're, you guys are, you guys are getting deep in the weeds here. I like, I'm like, okay, he's a, he's a very famous Jesuit.
Mike01:07:54I understood what was going on, but he was like, he, you know, anyway, so he's, he's not a caricature of like what a young priest fighting against this gut. Cause like, in a way, like Josh Brolin's priest character is also, he's like two or three ticks away from kind of even the real world's like extremists. Like he's like, he's like a psycho. Path version of extreme, you know, like, yeah, he's totally, he's like the psycho
JVL01:08:24version of a def a defrocked priest. Like, you know, even the priests who are so bad that they wind up getting, getting the rub strip from them. They're not like this guy, even they are not like this.
Mike01:08:39And, and, and I think it's, that serves the movie anyway. Sorry, we could rain on about this. We should probably wrap it up. Any other thoughts we have about. Uh, wake up dead man. Um, I, I called the, okay. Um, no, I was just gonna say, I called the, um, the thing with the door. Anyway, uh, I won't, I won't say, um, that was like a rare moment where I like predicted something out loud, like 40 minutes before it happened. Um, okay. Any other thoughts? No. All right. Well, that is all the time we are going to give to this episode. Join us over at sub beacon.com. Uh, tell your friends and family, and we'll talk to you next time. So, um, yeah, let me see what's, uh, we got to find JVL the closest, the closest parish to Sonny and see when there are CIA signups Catholic movies.
JVL01:09:41Yeah. Go ahead. Just do one other thing of the, the side character there is total lack of self-awareness is what he says to the priest needs to, to, to, um, Monsignor Wicks and he's trying to get him to, to like, you know, we're going to go take this thing on the road and become famous and he's like, with your story and my political instincts, which is good, so funny because all we've seen in all movies and he is, it's, it's so hard, it's amazing.
Mike01:10:07Zero.
Sonny01:10:08Sorry. Yeah, that's go ahead. That's great. All of his YouTube videos have like 18 watches. Yes.
Mike01:10:14So yeah, there's God in, in Doge. I love that. Yeah. Oh my God.
JVL01:10:18That was so funny.
Sonny01:10:21The, uh, again, that, that, that's where it gets like a little close to like, uh, it's a little on the nose. It's a little on the nose. I'm doing, I'm doing my lib stuff. Uh, the, uh, but the, um, did you, did you guys ever see silence? The Martin Scorsese?
Mike01:10:35No, no, no.
Sonny01:10:37I couldn't bring myself to again, very, very Catholic. And there's this whole thing about trampling the Fume. I don't know if you got it. Yeah, like basically like the, the, the plot of the movie, the, the big struggle at the heart of the movie is the Japanese want the priest to step on the face of Christ to show, we talked about this during the score. Says he, uh, uh, yeah, um, to, to show their disrespect for Christ, uh, and save the, you know, save the other Japanese from being tortured, blah, blah. Um, but that, that shot of the broken, that shot of the broken Christ is like, it's a good, it's a more skillfully done version of that. Problem like executed, frankly, better than Scorsese did it. Cause it's not just, he doesn't just say out loud, break the Christ to show, you know, how little faith you have and how little it means to you, like he does it. And then he regrets it. And he's like, ah, fuck. Uh, and that is that it just is, it's more, again, it's like subtle. It's better. It's subtle. It's, it's a subtle mo it's, it's a subtle movie, but it's, it's not a subtle movie, but it's subtle in that specific regard, the, the treatment of faith. Which again, I think you, I think you guys are right. I think you could only make this movie as a non Catholic, but as an admirer.
Mike01:11:55And I mean, if you literally, I've read some of the things, uh, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Yeah. Uh, put over where do you want to use? He apparently Ryan Johnson had apparently intended for this to be sort of more initially as like a mega church type of scenario. Um, and decided to make it a Catholic church because of the aesthetics, because it was just, you know, it was like, as a movie, as a filmmaker, it was like better in a Catholic church with the, with the, with all the flying buttresses and all that stuff. Um, which again, you have to, that comes out of respect, uh, for, for a faith, even if you're, you're not a man.
JVL01:12:35No.
Mike01:12:35Yes, sure.
Sonny01:12:37I'm sure it's fine.
Spot something wrong in this episode? Suggest a correction →
Comments
Loading…