#317. 'Americana'
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The main event is Americana, Tony Tost's long-shelved modern Western about a stolen Lakota ghost shirt, and it splits the panel: Sonny (with an assist from Mike, who gives the cleaner pitch) explains that Lionsgate buried this SXSW-2023 leftover with no screener links and a stealth day-and-date VOD release, but he genuinely liked its go-for-broke ensemble — Paul Walter Hauser and Sidney Sweeney's chemistry, a scene-stealing Toby Huss, and a terrific Zahn McLarnon as the AIM-style "Ghost Eye" chasing down the shirt — even while conceding the Pulp Fiction-style structure and the film's careful ideological hopscotching (the abused women, not the Indians, get to kill the compound's men) undercut it as drama. Mike, who also loved it, pitches the movie as "Blood Simple meets Reservoir Dogs meets Wes Anderson" and singles out Halsey's surprisingly strong supporting turn, while JVL sat this one out entirely, having talked himself out of watching after the trailer's Coen-brothers-by-way-of-Wes-Anderson whimsy turned out to hide a hyper-violent shootout he wasn't in the mood for on vacation. Box office talk covers Weapons holding the top spot for a second week on a strong 44% drop, Nobody 2 flopping into third, and Superman and F1 landing within a hair of each other at nearly $600 million worldwide. The episode opens with its usual long check-in: JVL reports that a bear tore apart his trash cans while he's out of town and shares happy news of friends Matt Robarts and Katya's new baby; Sonny narrates a whole geography-and-logistics saga about taking his kids to a Cowboys preseason game at AT&T Stadium, complete with a lengthy digression on how to correctly pronounce Knott's Berry Farm; and Mike details his ordeal buying a new bottom-freezer refrigerator, from an unfamiliar Chinese brand, via Costco.
From the show notes
Some good actors in this one!
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast, I'm your co-host Mike Warren, joining me as always
Mike00:00:29are my two co-hosts who told me before we started that they are the reincarnation of the Lakota chief sitting bull. Which one is right? Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at Sub-Beacon.com. Tell your friends and family if they want to listen to the show, they've got to do it at Sub-Beacon.com. Join the conversation in the comments. Every Friday morning you'll see a new episode, but you can only listen to it at Sub-Beacon.com. We are going to be talking about Americana later on in the show. But first, JVL, what is happening with you?
JVL00:01:06Two things. Very quickly, first of all, congratulations to our friends, Matt Robarts and Katya just had their first baby. Mazel Tov. They're on day three. Hey, Matt and Katya. She is adorable and I'm very happy for them. I can't wait to meet little Sylvia. Secondly, I'm still down in but I received an alarming text message from my brother-in-law who stopped by my house to check up on things. Yes. And discovered that there was trash all over my driveway and that one of my trash cans had been pried apart, including with the fancy steel plate carabiner buckles that I the bear defeated my trash can. But it does seem that he has beaten me in in my absence. Yeah,
Mike00:02:06this was predictable. I feel like I feel like that bear is has has a has been sort of leading you along here and and it knows more than we were giving it credit here. I'll have a report for you
Sonny00:02:19next week. That's all I mean. It sounds it sounds like the bear used his bear strength, you know, just pulled it apart like a Wookiee.
JVL00:02:28Going going at it. Maybe we'll see. I'll report it next. How are you boys? What's going on?
Sonny00:02:35Uh, not much going on on my end. We are going to we're taking the kids to their first Cowboys game. This this weekend, this Friday, it's actually the preseason game this Friday. And we this is like, tickets to Cowboys games are very expensive. Like it's it's actually it's not cheap to go to a Cowboys game like even very bad seats are hundreds of dollars, right? So you're looking at like $1,000 outlay. Basically, if you want to go to if you want to go to like a regular season, NFL Cowboys game. The preseason, however, is the preseason and everybody you know, the preseason joke, nobody cares about preseason. Sure. Which means which makes it like the perfect, the perfect opportunity to actually go to the game because like, my kids, my kids don't really care about the Cowboys that much like they you know, Charlie has like a Cowboys jersey but does not it's he is not like a Cowboys fan number one or anything. But this will be fun. It'll be a fun trip to just go to AT&T Stadium Jerry world to Jerry world to do to do the whole thing. And it's still I mean, it's not it's not cheap, though. amusingly, like the parking costs more than any of the tickets by far like the tickets themselves were only like 35 bucks or something. It was like it was it for that for like 300 level club level seats. It was like 30 $32 or something like that. Sonny, have you plus
Mike00:04:07taxes? Have you been down to that complex before? Like have you been to a Rangers? Okay, I've been
Sonny00:04:12down so I've been we've been to several Rangers games with with Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. And we have been to we've actually been to AT&T Stadium before because that's where they do Monster Jam. They they do Monster Jam there. So like we've been we've been to AT&T Stadium before it's that is not that is not in and of itself, you know, huge, enormous deal. But it'll be fun to it'll be my daughter's also very into the cheerleaders. She's she's watched the Cowboys cheerleader show on Netflix. So there there is that whole thing. The one problem really the only real real problem with all this is that the game is on a Friday night. It's Friday night, which like that means we're going to by the time by the time we it it will be it'll be like annoyingly tight getting from from, you know, from our house after work and everything is done to the stadium before the
Mike00:05:10before the game actually starts. But it's almost like you've got to carve out your entire afternoon just to sort of prepare to get down there early. Right. Because it's not close. I mean, it really,
Sonny00:05:22you know, for folks who don't know, Dallas-Fort Worth is essentially Dallas-Fort Worth is a little bit like Baltimore-Washington in the sense that they're there. Dallas is the bigger city, but they are they are similarly sized. They're not just they're not dissimilar in size and they are about I don't know what, 40 miles apart, something like that. Forty forty five miles apart. And they're connected by a couple of highways like it's it's you can get to get to you get to Fort Worth and Dallas. Not not that hard. But Arlington is kind of like smack in between the two of them. I don't know. I don't know precisely what the equivalent in Baltimore would be. There isn't really one. There isn't like a Columbia or something. Yeah. But like there's there's like I mean, there's there's there's a whole there. That's what. So that's where the that's where the Rangers Stadium is. That's where the Cowboys Stadium is. That's where like Six Flags is. Six Flags is in the same the same little, you know, kind of.
Mike00:06:20Hold on, Sonny, Sonny Park area. I have to ask you about your pronunciation. Of Six Flags, because you put the emphasis on flags, but I was always led to believe it was the emphasis was on six. It's six flags, not six flags. Sorry, that's maybe we don't flex. Maybe we don't know. I don't know. I don't have
Sonny00:06:41no I don't have strong feelings about this, but I do have strong feelings about Knott's Berry Farm. Do you guys do you guys know not? Do you know what Knott's Berry Farm? I'm familiar with it. I don't. I've never been. So not Knott's Berry Farm is a it is like an actual farm where they make they make preserves for jellies and stuff. If you go to a diner in California, you will be offered like Knott's Jelly, right? Knott's, Knott's, Knott's Farm Jelly. But like Knott's Berry Farm is like it's not it's a berry farm. It's not as berry farm, but it's also like it is also like a Six Flags style amusement park. There is a Six Flags style amusement park. It's not it's not as nice as like a like a Disneyland or a Universal Studios or anything. Again, it's much more it's much more in the Six Flags sort of vein. And I have always like it's it's it's interesting to listen to Southern California natives pronounce it because I have always found that they pronounce it wrong and I'm not even going to be able to do it here. But I like it's like it's it's like nuts, nuts berry farm, like almost one word. But it's not it's two words. It's Knott's Berry Farm, not their berry
Mike00:07:54farm. Is it Knott's Berry Farm or is it not berry farm? I see. I think it should be. I think the
Sonny00:08:01emphasis should be on the berry, because for all I know, there are multiple nuts farms. Maybe there's a nuts wheat farm. Maybe there's a peach farm, but it's but it's specifically Knott's Berry Farm, which I feel like. So I feel like that is where you should put the emphasis on not very not not. It shouldn't be Knott's Berry Farm or, you know, Knott's Berry Farm, maybe Knott's Berry Farm. I could I could live with. How about not Berry Farm? No, maybe. No, because even then, because I am putting the emphasis on the farm doesn't make any sense. Again, you're there's like a different it's a different. It could there are again calling it the Berry Farm specifically implies the existence of multiple different kinds of Knott's farms, not if you call something Knott's Berry Farm, I am assuming you have like Knott's Dairy Farm and a Knott's Knott's Wheat Farm. So Knott's Apple Archard. You know, I'm glad I derailed this conversation. Have fun at the at the Cowboys game. Thank you. It should be a good time. I'm I'm excited to go. My plan is right now to try and figure out how we get out of there at halftime so we can beat the beat the traffic home. Because again, it's gonna be late. It's a
JVL00:09:15late night for the kids. That's, you know, wait, if you're only going to stay for half of the game, why are you even going? Why would we stay for the whole game? It's because you've paid the money to to go with the kids.
Sonny00:09:27But it's not but it's not again. It's not even a regular season game that will affect the standings.
JVL00:09:33Like, you know, like if you're going for the kids, not for you, if the kids want to stay the whole
Sonny00:09:38time, fine. OK, kids want to stay the whole time. Fine. I'm I'm not it's I have nothing to do that night. It's not like I have things I need to to accomplish on Friday night. It's not like I don't questions. I don't really have anything going on on Saturday. But I also like I don't really I don't really feel like being stuck in what is, you know, not it's not a cheap place to go. It's not it's Jerry.
JVL00:10:03Right. And so you will have spent the money to go there. You might as well stay
Sonny00:10:07at time, get your money's worth. No, but no. But when you're in there, it's continues to be more expensive because they want to buy snacks and they want to buy shirts and they want to you know, we want to get peanuts. We want to get, you know, whatever.
Mike00:10:19So you're also anticipating probably correctly that like there will be a moment where your kids are like, can we go home? And you want to you want to time when you go home to as close to that moment as possible so that it's not too but but that it's not too late where they're saying that. But you're you're already like well in the third quarter and people are maybe starting to leave and now you're going to be stuck in a lot of traffic.
Sonny00:10:46I get. Yeah, I mean, it's all it's all about traffic. Yeah, that's what it comes. It's all about traffic maintenance. I don't want to get stuck in Cowboys exit traffic if I can avoid it. I would be surprised if I am able to avoid it,
Mike00:10:57but we'll we'll see. We'll see what happens. Anyway, Michael, buddy, I am fine. We are receiving a new refrigerator tomorrow. What did you get? We ended up going with Costco. Can't go wrong with Costco. Yeah. I mean, so like this whole search for a new refrigerator has taken like a couple of years off my life. And just because I didn't know really what I wanted until like three hours before I made the purchase, like I just wasn't quite sure what I was looking for. And then it kind of came down to, okay, I know we want the bottom freezer refrigerator because I'm done. I haven't had to do this in a while. You know, I've had a bottom freezer refrigerator for a while, but like, I can't go back to top freezer, even though it's cheaper. Like I can't bend down to the refrigerator anymore. I'm not doing that. Can't do the French door because of the way things are in our kitchen. It just, it doesn't work. It's up against a corner, et cetera. But then it was like, we're severely limited because of the way the cabinets are. Uh, there are cabinets above where the refrigerator goes severely limited on height. Um, and I'm not talking like, I'm not saying that it's really short. It's just that like, there are quite a few refrigerators on the market that are like an inch or two too tall for the space. And so it, it, it just limited everything. So I ended up going with a brand I'd never heard of, which is a little scary at first, um, called media, which is Chinese, I believe. Yes. No. Um, and, uh, and they, and Costco had like inventory they were trying to get rid of. And, uh, uh, it was at a really, really good price and Costco will deliver and hallway the old one, uh, for no additional cost.
Sonny00:13:13It just makes sense. Got to get the delivery in the hallway. That that's the, that's the key.
Mike00:13:17100%. Anyway. So that's that I don't have to deal with this old refrigerator that I told you guys, right. What was going on with the, um, computer system, not like defrosting it all the time. So, so I'm, I'm just hopeful that I made the right call with this Chinese treat you, treat you good. I mean, there's one thing we know about Chinese manufacturing. It's of the highest quality. I mean, you laugh, but it is getting
JVL00:13:45better. No, it is. It is. It's better. Um, people forget that there was, there was an entire like 40 years in which the idea that made in Japan was a knock on things. And in America, they'd be like, oh yeah, you got one of those, one of those Jap made radios.
Mike00:14:03This is, this is a joke about this in, uh, back to the future, right. Where he, he, uh, uh, where he mentions to doc Brown back in 1955. So then about the Japanese making, making cars, it's like, what, who would buy a Japanese car? So, uh, anyway, that's all that's going on with me. Uh, shall we talk box
JVL00:14:20office? I hear that, uh, weapons held really well.
Mike00:14:25Uh, yeah. Down number one, again, for the second week in a row at the box office down just under 44%. Um, it is, uh, total total now nearly $90 million, uh, after its second weekend, uh, freakier Friday at number two, once again, um, back, uh, second week at number two. Uh, and then in third place, uh, nobody to nobody to at number three, um, in case that's not confusing enough, uh, followed by fantastic four first steps in the bad guys too. Uh, any thoughts on weapons holding really well and holding this top spot in, uh, in the box office? Uh, I mean that, yeah, that is a very
Sonny00:15:10good hole. The 44% on a horror movie is very, very good. It's not, you know, it's not get out good. And it's not sinners good, but it's very good. Uh, and there is not much competition in theaters coming up over the next few weeks here. It's kind of a, kind of a dead, dead period. I would not be shocked if weapons is number one again this weekend. Uh, honestly, I, I don't, I don't think there's anything else that's gonna, that's going to, uh, uh, come close to dethroning it unless, unless there's on light weapons too. Well, there, there's actually talk of, uh, weapons prequels that Kregger, uh, said he had, he had an idea for, uh, for, uh, aunt Gladys, uh, movie. Um, if you, if you've seen weapons that, that makes some sense. Um, but the, uh, no, it's a, it's a, it's a big hit. I mean, it's, uh, what's, what's it at? It's like one 50 million, 154 million worldwide, which is, uh, which is, uh, that, that is, that puts the money that, that puts it into profitability. I think already, I mean, it, you know, the movie cost about 39, $40 million to make. Something like that. You figure another, probably they only spent 20 or $30 million on advertising, you know, divide that, divide the worldwide by two and you're well over 70 million. So,
Mike00:16:30I mean, I would say this, this movie, I have heard more word of mouth stuff about it than just about any movie that doesn't have a recognizable like star. Like, yeah, I know Josh Brolin's it, but he's not on the poster, you know, that sort of thing. Um, like I'm hearing as much about it as I was about, um, uh, about the, the, the black vampire movie, um, sinners, sinners, sinners. Um, I knew it was like another, uh, plural noun, uh, uh, uh, title. Um, but like that had Michael B. Jordan in it. Like that, like he's like on the poster. He's a, that guy's like, you know, pretty close playing two parts, playing two parts. Yeah. Um, uh, Norbitting it as it were.
Sonny00:17:12Um, nobody calls it that don't ever call it that again. Um, and, uh,
Mike00:17:19and, uh, it's just like, it's incredible to me that like weapons has had that kind of, again, where like people who I'm friends with who are not like movie obsessives, like, uh, like the folks on this podcast are like, it's, it's remarkable. It's remarkable.
Sonny00:17:37That is, that is interesting. Can I ask what sort of person is it that is recommending it to you? Is it like your coworkers? Are you hearing it from random friends from like back? I'm always fascinated by word of mouth. Cause I don't, I don't get word of mouth on any of this because nobody comes to me and says, Hey, you got to see this thing. They say,
Mike00:17:53Hey, what should I see? Yeah. I mean, that is kind of what I get as well, but I would say the word of mouth I'm getting is people are talking about it. Friends from back home. Um, I'm hearing about it from, uh, uh, you know, on sort of social media talk, like with like, you know, not, not Twitter, but you know, like Instagram people are, are, are posting memes and stuff. So it does seem it is just in the, in the talk and the ether in a way that is surprising to me, uh, again, for something that's like not a, not a, uh, franchise. I mean, I guess it will be the start of a franchise, but, um, and, and, and no like recognizable stars and like, and it's not even, you know, the, the director is not like somebody who is known, um, either, you know, it's not like a Jordan Peele type of, uh, of movies. So, yeah. Well, I mean, I would say I would, I would
Sonny00:18:48disagree with that slightly in the sense that I do think, well, I mean, again, it's hard to disambiguate between general audiences and you know, what, what I see film Twitter folks talking about, but I do think, I do think that there was, there was a lot of buzz after barbarian for like, Oh, what's this guy going to do next? What's this Zach Craig or guy going to do next?
Mike00:19:07Yeah. And I'm saying the people that I'm hearing about this from are not aware like at that level.
Sonny00:19:14Yeah. Yeah. Um, no, I mean, I like that. That's interesting. I, I do kind of wonder again, what the legs on this movie are. If it does a four X, you know, that's about what? $170, $180 million, something like that domestic, which would be a huge, a huge number. Um, a couple other interesting things. Nobody to, uh, doing nothing at the box office is kind of interesting. I felt like people liked the first nobody, but I, I, that also came out at a weird time. Like, remember, do you remember, you guys remember nobody? It was like, one of the, it was one of the, first movies that came back to theaters after the pandemic. It was like, it was like one of the, just one of the absolute first. Uh, and I feel like people were kind of excited for it, but again, it's hard to disambiguate a general excitement for going back to the movies with excitement for that movie in particular. I did not love the original. I thought it was okay, but, uh, the second half struck me as kind of a mess. I didn't love the action in it. This one I think is slightly better, but still not particularly good. Uh, the director, the director is a favorite of people on Twitter. He's on Twitter a lot and people, people have been kind of given this one a pass, but I don't think it's very good. I think it's like a mess as a piece of storytelling. Um, the other one, one last thing that's kind of interesting, uh, Superman and F1, the movie have grossed almost an identical amount of money worldwide, which is a, which is a fascinating thing to me. Uh, you know, Superman, Superman has done much better domestically, uh, than F1 did, but F1 has done much better overseas um, than, than Superman did. Uh, so it, it all kind of balances out. They're both right at just a hair under $600 million. So Superman is streaming and Superman is, Superman is hitting VOD this, this, did it last week? I bought it last week, hit VOD last week. So like that is, that's on, you know, it's, it's on, it's on digital now. And F1 was back in IMAX. They, they put it back on some IMAX showings. Uh, this week. So it's still, it's still hanging around. It's still in the top 10. Um, at the box office in week number eight, uh, down just 7.4% over last weekend. But again, that's cause they put it back on some of the PLF screens. Um, I don't know. I, you know, it's kind of interesting. The one last, I'm sorry. One last thing. We always talk about horror movies and you know, you make a horror movie cheap enough and you can't lose too much money. And that is basically the, I know what you did last summer. The situation, which, you know, not a good movie has not done particularly well. I haven't seen it. I hear it's not a good movie. Uh, it has not done particularly well, but it still has grossed 32 million, which is, you know, probably two exits budget. You know, it's, it's, you know, it's not, it's not going to lose a ton of money, uh, even after marketing and, and the such. So,
Mike00:22:09all right. Uh, well, why don't we, uh, move on then and talk about the movie that we are going to be talking about, uh, which is not, I'm looking at it now on the, uh, the box office. It is not even on the list, uh, for, uh, the box office, uh, releases this, this past weekend Americana, which was made two years ago and has been kind of, I guess, sitting on a shelf looking for distributors. And now it's, now it's out for a short time. Um, uh, Sonny, you want to talk to us about, uh, this movie we saw this week, Americana. Yeah, it's on VOD.
Sonny00:22:48Now, uh, Americana, Americana day and date, uh, VOD and theatrical release, which is an old trick that the studios will use to put it in a higher cat, a higher pay category on VOD. This, this costs $15 to rent. Maybe, maybe you can only buy it right now. Um, but, uh, it, it, that's because it's in theaters. It's a theatrical release. In addition, uh, Americana is kind of an, you mentioned the release strategy. I do, I wanted, I do want to highlight that just a little bit, cause I think it helped illuminate what I, what, when I discuss about the, the actual plot here, but the, uh, the film was, it was at South by Southwest in 2023. Um, it did okay there. People were like, oh yeah, we like Paul Walter Hauser. You know, we like Sidney Sweeney. This is kind of an interesting revisionist, modern Western sort of thing. Why not? Uh, but then it did not get picked up out of South by Southwest. It didn't get picked up by Lionsgate until like a year later. And then Lionsgate, uh, kind of sat on it until this last week, this, this weekend, last weekend, um, uh, to release it, uh, via, via the day and date strategy. They did not do really any advertising for this. This is, uh, this is, they, they did not send out screening links either, which was, you know, I, I had some, some friends who review everything and were like, we were begging for links to Sidney Sweeney's latest movie. Cause we wanted that to be like the top item in our thing. They couldn't, they wouldn't even send us links. So they, they, they kind of buried this movie. Um, and I can understand why this is a hard movie to market, right? So the, the, it is, it is structured kind of like it, not precisely like, but kind of like a pulp fiction, um, where you have discrete chapters and they kind of weave together. They're slightly non-chronological. It's not, it's not as wonky as, um, as, uh, either Pulp Fiction or like Kill Bill in terms of the chronology of it. But there is, it does start kind of in media res, uh, with, uh, this, this, uh, this sister and brother who are living with this kind of scuzz bag and the scuzz bag gets killed and we're trying to figure out why. And then it, and then it gets to like kind of the, the meat of the story, which revolves around, uh, this guy lefty who's played by Paul Walter Hauser and, uh, heavy Joe. And Penny Joe, uh, Penny Joe Poplin, who is, uh, played by Sidney Sweeney. Um, and they, she is a, she's the waitress at this, at this bar and she kind of comes to long story short, she comes to Paul Walter Hauser with a plan to, you know, try and, uh, to rip off a robbery. Um, the robbery involves a Lakota ghost shirt, which is a rare artifact. The Lakota believe that these shirts would stop bullets, spoilers. They did not, uh, a lot, a lot of Lakota died. Uh, and the, the shirts are fairly rare, very expensive. Uh, the Eric, the guy played, uh, by Eric Dane, uh, I'm doing a terrible job of describing this movie because it is, it is like kind of convoluted and it's actually very straightforward, but it's structured in a way that's kind of convoluted. And there are so many characters. Uh, this is the joy of the film is that it is a really good ensemble cast. And if I, to recommend folks watch it, it's because I did actually really enjoy watching all of the actors in it. Long story short, very long story short. Um, there is a shirt that is being stolen, uh, a band of American Indian movement. Indians want to steal it back. They're led by a guy played by Zahn McLarnon. Um, who's this great kind of indie or a great kind of character, Indian actor. Um, uh, and, uh, yeah, I don't know. I, I, I really, I'm really doing a very,
Mike00:26:58very bad job explaining. Here's how I'm sorry. Here's how I would explain it. It's a, it's sort of a crime heist movie where the object is this ghost shirt and this sort of wacky, uh, kind of cast of characters are all trying to get it or hold onto it. For various reasons. And there's a, um, there's a sort of series of events that all lead them
Sonny00:27:24to the same place. And it's, yeah, that's better. You did a much better job of explaining it than I did. You should have done the big boy. I, uh, I, um, uh, the, the, again, the structure of the film is unnecessarily convoluted in a way that I think is kind of designed to make it feel a little more clever than it actually is. But if you look at the actual chronology of the movie, it basically starts and stops with the same speech delivered twice by Paul Walter Hauser's character. He's delivering a, he's delivering a, um, a PR he's practicing a wedding proposal in the first, in the first version of the speech. And then in the second speech, he's giving it again in a slightly different context. Um, but the whole movie is, is, is about this speech. It's about the desire for happiness, what happiness means, does happiness mean just having a normal regular life in South Dakota somewhere with a little farm and, you know, pony ride establishment, or does it mean being a singer in Nashville, which is what Sydney Sweeney's kind of stuttering waitress character wants to be? Um, does it, does it mean escaping your abusive home and finding, you know, your own way in the world or whatever? Um, and I, I, the, again, what is, what is the, the, the, the best thing about this movie? The thing I enjoyed the most was just watching all of these characters do their work. You know, uh, Toby Huss, who is a, who's a character actor. He's kind of been in a bunch of stuff over the years. He has this great scene stealing moment in the middle of the movie where he's talking about America as a land of artists and that sort of thing. And it's just, it's a really interesting moment. Zahn McLaren is, uh, one of my favorite actors. He's so good in this as the kind of, uh, as the Marxist, uh, native American, tribe leader, um, who, uh, is very annoyed with this kid, uh, who we meet and like kind of starts the movie, who is saying that he is the reincarnation of Sitting Bull. Um, and the movie also kind of gets into ideas of cultural appropriation, et cetera, et cetera. Um, it is, it's, it's a movie where I think the screenwriter had a lot of ideas he was really playing with and, and kind of obsessed with that. I don't necessarily think work as drama. Um, but, uh, I dunno, I I'm gonna, can I, can I, can I spoil the end? Can we talk about the
JVL00:29:56ending a little bit? Yes, absolutely. Nobody who, nobody who's listening to this, who hasn't already
Sonny00:30:02seen it is ever gonna watch it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably true. All right. So th there's what, what I, what I mean when I say the movie's kind of wrapped up in ideology is there's a moment at the end of the film where, uh, this, this woman who's played by Halsey, the pop singer has gone I guess, polygamous maybe compound in Wyoming where her abusive father lives. Uh, and she, uh, and, and she is there with the ghost shirt and the Indians show up and the Indians kill a couple guys. And there's a, there's a brief gunfight between, between the two of them. And then the women inside of this, uh, abusive compound kill all of the abusive men because the abusive men don't want them to have the guns to fight back against these Indians or right. And there's this, there's this weird thing where I can just, I can just see the, the screenwriter, the writer director, a guy named Tony toast, um, who you, I, you can see in his head what he is thinking. He is thinking, okay, we have a modern Indians versus cowboy shootout, except I can't have the Cowboys kill the Indians. Cause that would be problematic. And I can't show the Indians to be killing the Cowboys because that would also be problematic in a different way. But I also can't have the Indians save these abused women. Because then they're, then they're, they don't have agency. So I'm gonna have the women kill the men in the midst of this, in the midst of this shootout, they're going to kill half of the people who would fight off the invading forces. Sure. Why not? Uh, in order, in order to give the women their agency while also not having it be a standard Cowboys versus Indians fight, but then they can't actually fight each other. Cause that would also be weird and problematic. So we're gonna bring in a third character. Who's gonna show up midway through and he's gonna pop out and he's gonna do a lot of the killing. And it's just this weird, it's such a, it's such a weirdly convoluted way to tell this story. Um, that I can't, I cannot think that it is done for any reason other than ideology, which gets in, it just gets in the way of the storytelling. It just gets in
JVL00:32:07the way of the storytelling. Um, that said, I still, I still, I found I, I enjoyed watching
Sonny00:32:11this. I, and I, I found, I found the end of the film very moving. I actually found the end of film uh, fairly touching. Tell people what happened at the end. I'm a big softy. Uh, well at the end of the, at the end of the movie, it's revealed that the, the young, the, the, the sister and brother, that's actually the little boy's mother. And she goes back and finds them and grabs them on the street and there's hugs and tears, et cetera. And also Paul Walter Hauser dies, uh, saving Sydney Sweeney and the little boy from the shootout proposes to her. And he proposes to her. This is the second, this is the second reading of the proposal. He doesn't actually finish the proposal. He dies mid proposals. One imagine she would have said yes. Yes. Cause it's that sort of it's, but it's not that sort of movie. It's the sort of movie where he dies giving the proposal. So anyway, uh, I don't know. I'm sorry. I've done a terrible job of explaining and promoting and defending this movie, which I actually like. I actually, I actually enjoy, I actually enjoy this movie. I just have a hard time explaining why it works and why
JVL00:33:16it doesn't work JVL. Yeah. I got a level with you guys. I didn't watch it. And that's, that's because I'd never heard of it before we decided to do it. I watched the trailer for it and was super excited because the trailer makes it look like a Coen brothers movie by way of Wes Anderson. Yep. So very, very highly detailed costumes and sets weird things like this little boy claiming to be the reincarnation of sitting bowl and like shooting a bow and arrow. Like every, I mean, even the shot selection for the trailer is everything is like with a locked down camera, right? You know, cameras totally locked down shot next shot. And it's all, it's all the ensemble is very prominent in the idea of like, Hey, look at all this whimsy. And they're all looking for a, they're all chasing this ghost shirt. And the, the guy who's the original owner of the ghost shirt, we get a little thing with him in his living room, trying to explain the ghost shirt to his friends. And I just thought this looks awesome. I can't wait. And, and then somebody told me, Oh no, this is like crazy hyper-violent. Yeah. And I, I just couldn't, I, I could not get myself to do a hyper-violent movie this week. I just was like, what do you mean? He's like, everybody kills each other. And it's like, it's like full of gunplay. And I was like, really? Really? Because I was interested in a movie with like this fun cast that is exploring this weird MacGuffin. That's like kind of a heist thing, but is really a commentator. And I, do we really have to go back to like the nineties grittiness of everything ends with everybody dying? Like, I just
Mike00:35:16I'm on vacation, man. I just couldn't do it. Okay. I couldn't do the violence. So it's, it's very interesting the way you described the trailer, because I would say that if before either of you guys talked about this my, my pitch on it, or my sort of a distillation of the movie is it is blood simple meets reservoir dogs meets like directed by Wes Anderson. Like that was going to be how I described the movie. And it ha it's like, clearly like those are, you know, Tarantino and the Coen brothers and Wes Anderson are who Tony toast is sort of, I don't know, is channeling in this, in this movie. So like, you're not, you're, but so like you weren't wrong or in the trailer JVL wasn't wrong. It's just, it's like throw in quite a bit of, uh, I don't know, like the hateful eight or, um, The trailer left out the hateful eight. Yes, exactly. You know? So, um, I don't know. I'm, I'm with you, Sonny. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was, um, in terms of the cast, like I just enjoyed watching everybody on screen. Uh, pretty much, I mean, pretty much everybody from, uh, from obviously Sydney Sweeney and Paul Walter Hauser, who I think, I mean, there it's like, they have this great chemistry with each other and it, it just is a joy to watch them sort of, uh, get to know each other and, um, give each other like a little back and forth of, you know, as they kind of find out a little more about themselves, but they're also these kind of, um, sort of for sad reasons, like broken people. Um, you know, he's got the brain injury from, from when he was in Afghanistan and, and she's got the stutter and the kind of abusive mother that she lives with. Um, and you know, so they're fantastic, but I was surprised by Halsey, uh, and how good of an, of an actor she was and kind of how I've seen
JVL00:37:23her in some other stuff. Yeah. She's been another, I was shocked by how good an actress she was. Right. Yeah. Like she should do that. Very good. She should, she should act. She doesn't need to be a pop singer. She could just act.
Mike00:37:33Right. Um, uh, I agree with you on, I, I can't remember his last name Zahn, uh, who plays, uh, who plays ghost eye McLaren McLaren. Yeah. It's like, it's not a, it's not a Nate last name. Rolls off the tongue. Um, he was like, he was terrific. He was in Longmire, which was that procedural Wyoming, uh, like cop show that I re I really liked the first couple seasons of, um, and, uh, and I just, I mean, everybody, Simon Rex is great. Um, uh, Toby Huss was like, was just such a, I was like, oh, I didn't realize he was in this movie. And he was, he just kind of pops on the screen and he's in and out very quickly, but extremely memorable kind of moment. One of the moments where, because the whole thing really does feel, and it's kind of framed as sort of a modern Western and there are, but there are a couple of moments, um, that, that shake you out of that. And, and the scene in his house is, is one of them, um, because it's so modern and so sort of, uh, different than, than, than the rest of the South Dakota landscape. We see, um, uh, I, I was just along for the ride and had a good time. I don't think it works, uh, for the reasons Sonny that you, uh, mentioned and, you know, it had that, it had that thing, which I've noticed now for several years, which is, um, movies don't end when they should. And, um, I feel like it really should have ended basically as they pull out of the, of the compound when everybody's been killed and those people escape. I know we wanted to give closure and all these things and the reveal of Halsey's brother being her kid is, is, um, and, and, and, and having them come back together is fine. Um, I just, it felt like the movie was over and yet I was still sticking around for 10 minutes and I was like, why, why are we sticking around for this? Like, let's, let's get in and get out. So, um, but that's like my, that's my biggest complaint about it. Otherwise I just, I loved it and it looked great. And if there's something about that part of the country, you know, that, which is the sort of high planes, uh, moving into into the front range of the Rocky mountains, it's just so it makes for such great scenes and scenery. Um, for, for a movie, it just looks great, uh, for, from, from a movie making standpoint. So
JVL00:40:01obligatory Sydney Sweeney discourse or no. Uh, I mean, it's funny because like,
Mike00:40:07she's so she's playing against tight Sonny, isn't she?
Sonny00:40:11Yeah. She's like kind of, she's like kind of a mousy. Yes. She's got a stutter in this
JVL00:40:15movie, which same as in a madam web where she's the little bit smart one. Yeah. A little bit,
Sonny00:40:20but like hotter than that. Better, better wardrobe. I would say I, the, the, the mountain west of it is kind of interesting because I, I did not think that they used that landscape as much as they could have, frankly, uh, a lot of this movie. And, and I think this is intentional too, because it's like a lot of, most of this movie takes place indoors. This is not a Western in the, like, we're in a Russell cows around the, the, the, the planes. We're not having gun fights out in the streets of our town. Like most of this movie takes place with roofs over people's heads. Uh, which I think, again, I think is kind of a reflection of how life is actually lived now. It's not a, we don't, we don't live in a, a, a society that roams the planes and, you know, has big open sprawling ranches anymore. That's just not how people, uh, how people live. Um, which, you know, kind of, kind of interesting. The, uh, there, there were a couple of nice little touches I did. I did enjoy, I enjoyed, um, uh, I enjoyed McLaren's character talking about how he gave himself the name, the name ghost doc, where he's like, I, you know, I, because I like, I like ghost dog, the samurai and I like, uh, killer his, his, his songs. So I just, I called myself ghost die instead of Alvin Harrison jobs or whatever his name is. Um, which I thought was, I thought was kind of amusing, but again, it's one of these things where like, it's, it's like a pseudo commentary on, uh, cultural appropriation, except not. And like very, the movie is very explicit. Like this only goes one way, um, which, uh, you know, again, it's like, it's, it's an ideological thing. Uh, you know, if you were to separate
Mike00:42:07that stuff out, I thought a really good moment in terms of undermining what you expect. Is right. The whole time the movie, the kid is like, keeps repeating this almost like a mantra, right? Like I am the reincarnated spirit of, of the Lakota chief sitting bowl. Um, and you know, everybody is sort of rolling their eyes at this, especially the Lakota. Um, you know, and he's even warned, like, don't say that or to the wrong person or you'll, you'll be in real trouble. And then he does, he sort of proves himself right by getting the shirt and saving the shirt and bringing it back, um, kind of on his own to the, to the Lakota and to, uh, to ghost eye. And you would kind of expect that to be this moment of acceptance. And the fact that it isn't, I guess, in the context with all the, with all the ideology, it, it, it, it has a different meaning, but if you kind of zap all the rest of that out, are you sort of looking at it without that in the, in the ether that in which you're watching it? Um, I thought it was like a nice moment of like, uh, subverting expectations, but maybe I'm wrong.
Sonny00:43:19No, but it's, but it's not because I like the point of that scene, the point, the whole point of that scene in that sequence is it doesn't matter what this kid does. He still can't do this. And there's, there's a version of this movie that comes out in the 1980s where like Zahn McLaren and invites them into the cabin and they have a nice, they have a nice little moment, but that's very problematic. Now you could never do that, uh, these days. And uh, and, and there's another version of this movie in which we would take McLaren and shutting him out as like an asshole move as like, he is, he's being a real dick here. And instead I think we're, I think we, I think the language of the film is very clear that we are supposed to like, take his side on this. This is, this is a, this is the right thing to do. Um, and again, like,
JVL00:44:09okay, fine. We take his side. That's the right thing to do because the kid needs to fucking grow up and stop playing pretend.
Sonny00:44:14Yes. I, there is, there is also that, that element to it, but I don't think that that is, uh, that is, that is like explicitly not the, the thing that is said to him throughout this movie is explicitly like, you cannot do this. This is our culture. Yeah. I don't, I suppose there's
Mike00:44:31another reading on that, which is, which is probably incorrect as you say, Sonny, given the, what the film is trying to tell us, but you could also take away a kind of like, he needs to in the same way that Halsey sort of needs to accept that, not that she'd never accepted it, but she, she was sort of outwardly saying, this is my brother. Um, you know, that she needed to accept that he was her son and that he needed to accept that he was not a sitting bowl, that he was Hall. He was Halsey's Mandy's, uh, son as well. I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm looking for something that's a little less ideological just to, cause I enjoy the movie so much, but no, I think you're
Sonny00:45:14that is also, that's part and parcel of it too. I think, I think that's probably right, but also like, did you buy the reveal? Uh, what does it make it, did it make any sense to you in the action of the film, particularly given that first scene? Uh, it did not because I was thinking back
Mike00:45:31to like, why would she have told this boyfriend that it was her brother, not her son made, made
Sonny00:45:38no sense except that makes. And so that could make sense. Right. Which is like, uh, which is like, you know, she doesn't, she, she doesn't want to be like, uh, yeah, she doesn't want him to think like, Oh, this is, you know, some other man's kid that I'm going to have to take care of. Right. Uh, I could, I could see that. No, I like, I'm thinking just specifically like her leaving her son there with, so in the, in the movie JBL, it is revealed that the, the little boy is the, is, is her son and not, not her brother. Um, but like leaving her son there with the man that she just cracked across the skull with a hammer. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean,
Mike00:46:20but, but she kind of had to grow up, right? Like she kind of, right. Because she was taken off with a shirt. She was going home to daddy, the daddy that she ran away from because he was a crazy guy. And, uh, then she had to grow up. He was pimping her out. That's, that's like the, you know, all right. Anyway. Yeah. Um, okay. Well, I enjoyed it. Uh, Sonny,
Sonny00:46:41you enjoyed it. JBL. Yeah. I mean, I enjoyed it too. All the, all the nitpicks aside, I can, I can totally understand why Lionsgate buried this movie. Frankly, this is, this is a hard movie to market. It's a hard movie to sell to people. And, uh, you know, it is, it's not, it's not a very straightforward thing. Uh, so, you know, but I feel like it,
Mike00:46:59it suggests he could do a lot of great stuff. Like it, it, well, he's, he's the showrunner
Sonny00:47:06on the new season of, uh, poker face, which is, which is not bad. Uh, and, uh, I think he actually, I think he actually worked on long Meyer. He may have been a writer,
Mike00:47:14Oh, okay. That was a, that was a, that was a elevated police procedural, uh, show. So, uh, JVL, you would have, I think you would have enjoyed it had you watched it. Um, despite all the shooting different, different time. There we go. Not while I'm on vacation. Um, all right. Well, uh, I think that is all the time we're going to give to this episode. Join us over at sub beacon.com. Uh, and we will talk to you next time. Um, yeah, the, the only, the one question I had Sonny in this movie is what were we supposed to make of the woman who falls asleep after thinking she sees the, the Robert? Like it was like the whole, that whole kind of her character was odd to me. She was like the bored wife, I guess. And
Sonny00:48:06she falls asleep and then, yeah, I mean, I, it was a, it was a weird moment. I was like
Mike00:48:10expecting it to go somewhere and it didn't, but I couldn't,
Sonny00:48:14I couldn't quite tell what was happening on the fade out in that scene. Was he putting the gun in her hands to like frame her? No, he, no, he was shooting her. He was shooting her. Okay. Okay. Uh, because I, I, I was like listening for the, you know, for the, for the, no, no, no. I think it was pretty clear. That's what he was doing. I, I, I assumed that was what was going to happen as well. Um, but it was, uh, again, it wasn't, it wasn't 100% clear. Um, yeah, no, I mean, I, she just seemed like she seemed like she, what she was, was an audience surrogate at this like insufferable bougie, uh, art, art, pretentious art dickhead, uh, party. She was just kind of drunk and passing out cause she was, she's either heard all this before or is, you know, it doesn't
JVL00:49:01care. Uh, and you know, did you guys, uh, I, one of the other movies we talked about seeing was called Eddington. Also something I had never seen and, or heard of. And so I pulled up the trailer for that as well. Sure. It looks remarkably like this tonally, uh, and in like terms of artistic pretension, but what really struck me was the one sheet design for both Eddington and Americana look like they're advertising the
Sonny00:49:35same movie. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is a pretty, yeah. Uh, hold on. Let me actually, um, cause I know exactly what you mean with like the kind of red sun and all the character heads, character heads arranged in a triangle. Yeah. Uh, let me just, yeah. Yeah. I could, I could see that. Yeah. It's like, yeah. And that, that, that is also kind of what the, uh, um, if I remember correctly, that's also kind of what the driveaway dot, like that's a very common poster design. Oh yeah. Once upon a time in Hollywood's is like that.
JVL00:50:11Yeah. Yeah. But I mean the, the fact of both of them being like, commentary on America through the lens of the Southwest and a neo-noir Western kind of black
Sonny00:50:21comedy. Eddington is, Eddington's a much better, much more successful, uh, movie. I think it does. It is also kind of more narrowly aimed at specifically like, Hey, you know what drove everybody crazy is, uh, is phones and COVID like that, that has like a more narrow, this is more Americana is more about like the broad scope of like what American, the, the broad grand sweep of the American pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness. Eddington is more like, Hey, things went kind of nuts in 2020. Didn't they?
JVL00:50:54Yeah. I, uh, I gotta say I have zero interest in seeing movies about the pandemic. Like, totally agree. Just can we, we lived through it. Can we put a moratorium on pandemic movies
Sonny00:51:04until like 20 years out? Well, this is like the only one there's like, there's this and there's that. What was it? Easy money or whatever. The GameStop. Yeah. The GameStop movie.
JVL00:51:13No, there's this dumb money, but there was another one, uh, with Brad Whitford in it
Sonny00:51:19and, uh, Alexandra did REO. Ooh. Oh, uh, mockingbird or something. What was the one
JVL00:51:27that was produced by Michael Bay? Yeah. And Paul Walter Hauser. He was also, yeah. Yeah. He was in everything. So yeah, I'm sure it's fine.
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