#314. Coming Right Now: 'Caddyshack'
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This is a rewatch episode marking the 45th anniversary of Caddyshack, and the three hosts split sharply: Sonny confesses he has never loved the movie, finding its "cocaine movie" looseness and country-club milieu less appealing than Animal House or National Lampoon's Vacation and singling out the Danny/scholarship A-plot as dead weight he barely remembers scene to scene; JVL agrees the Danny plot is the film's one flaw but insists that everything else — Bill Murray's improvised Carl Spackler bits, Ted Knight's Judge Smales, Rodney Dangerfield's chaos, the bishop struck by lightning — is "the finest gold ever refined in comedy," calling it a near-perfect movie if you mentally excise the A-plot; and Mike, who pitched the rewatch, praises the elder statesmen Ted Knight and Rodney Dangerfield as the real scene-stealers on this viewing. Along the way they dig into Bill Murray's meatballs-to-stripes-to-Ghostbusters career trajectory and his legendary on-set improvising (including JVL's retelling of the New Yorker story about Murray vanishing into a Vietnamese village), the Chevy Chase/Murray SNL rivalry and backstage fistfight ("medium talent, medium talent"), Ted Knight's real Polish immigrant background, and a shared ambivalence about Rodney Dangerfield's screen persona versus his stand-up chops. The episode opens with its usual long banter stretch: JVL processing big feelings about a college baseball recruiting trip to Maine with his son Flash, a lengthy digression into mixtapes and CD-burning courtship rituals of the hosts' youths, and an extended tribute/analysis of Hulk Hogan's death and cultural significance (Sonny drawing parallels to Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Gawker lawsuit) before Mike runs through box office numbers covering Superman, I Know What You Did Last Summer, Sinners' domestic-vs-international split, Smurfs, and The Fantastic Four.
From the show notes
Sorry, forgot to send the heads up. Luckily, you've all seen this movie, which is celebrating its 45 anniversary TODAY!
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00I want you to kill every gopher on the course. Check me if I'm wrong, Sandy, but if I kill all the golfers, they're going to lock me up and throw away the key. Gophers! You're a great kid, not golfers! The little brown furry rodents! We can do that.
Mike00:00:24Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast. I'm your co-host, Mike Warren. Joining me, as always, are my two co-hosts, who when they die on their deathbed, they will receive total consciousness. So they've got that going for them, which is nice. JVL, Jonathan V. Last, and Sonny Bunch, join us over at Sub-Beacon.com to listen to new episodes every Friday. Tell your friends and family, leave a comment, join the conversation in the comments. You can only do that at Sub-Beacon.com. We're going to be talking about Caddyshack on its 45th anniversary. When this episode comes out, it will be 45 years to the day since Caddyshack was released in theaters later on in the show. But first, JVL, what is going on with you? I got so many thoughts about Caddyshack.
JVL00:01:20Hold it, hold it. So I am hitting a life milestone that you guys will hit at some point. This weekend is our first college visit from being invited to a coach's camp. And so it is a coach's camp for a school, which I am praying Flash does not go to. And so we're going to drive to Maine.
Sonny00:01:50Maine? You're going to drive to Maine?
?00:01:53Yeah.
Sonny00:01:54What's a drive to Maine look like? Is that like a 17-hour drive?
JVL00:01:59It's...
?00:01:59It's...
JVL00:02:00Zero traffic, zero stops, according to Google Maps, six hours.
Mike00:02:05Is this Colby?
JVL00:02:07I'm not going to say which one it is. Oh, sorry. But it's one of those. Right. It's one of those.
Mike00:02:11There's not many in the state of Maine.
JVL00:02:12There's like four. There's like four of the, you know, the mini IVs in Maine. And I... I just... I don't want to go there. It's too far. If he goes there, a place that is 375 miles away or something like that, or something, and which doesn't have an airport nearby, the reality is I will never see him play baseball in college. Right. Like, I can just tell, like, I'm sorry. I know what my work schedule is like. I know that I have three other kids. And I know that if this happens, like, I just won't see him. And it's selfish. It's all about me. It's not about my child. Right. I'm with you. I'm really... I'm feeling a lot of feelings about this. A lot of conflicted feelings.
Mike00:02:58Plus, you don't want him to talk like... Like Fred Gwynn in Pet Sematary. You know, like, he's up there too long. Go down that road. Oh, y'all just come down the road, dad.
Sonny00:03:07Sound like a Stephen King character.
JVL00:03:10So, I don't know. I don't know, guys. I'm having a lot of big feelings right now. But hold on, JVL, because...
Sonny00:03:16We've got a baseball team here.
Mike00:03:19You don't want to hit the baseball that way. Not down that way. But this is a good opportunity, regardless of the actual substance of the visit. Right? Because, like, you know, you get to, like, go to this place with your son and, like, see this kind of next step of his life alongside him. And there's, like, a little bit of... It's not like he's going to experience college, but there's, like, it's kind of a cool thing. And you're, like, with him at this initial step. There's a lot to get out of it. No, there's a lot.
JVL00:04:01Just, again, anybody who's listening to this, who has done this, is going to be like, yeah, this is like somebody who's just had a baby. Right, right. Schmaltzy at the idea of their baby taking their first steps. No! Right? Like, this is a thing that everybody deals with. But I'm feeling a lot of feelings about it. All right. Well, we'll be... So I'm taking little E with us. So I will have some company while he is doing his thing. And we will walk around this little main town with its waterfalls and... I don't know. Maybe there will be a quilt store or a fabric store we'll go to. Or what else? I don't know what they have in Maine.
Sonny00:04:36Is Maine full of waterfalls?
JVL00:04:39Yeah. They got a lot of, you know, mountains in the western part of Maine. Yeah. A lot of changes in elevation. No, it's one of these... All these little towns, basically. Most of these little towns sprung up near rivers because of just, like, commerce. And so... Right, right.
Sonny00:04:57That's how you send all the... The beaver skins back.
JVL00:05:02Literally, yes. I mean, I'm not... And the apple cider.
Sonny00:05:04The trappers.
JVL00:05:06And so there's a lot of changes in elevation. Anyway. I don't know what we're going to do in Maine. Probably not a lot of comic book shops. Although you never know. You never know. It's a college town. College towns might have a comic book shop. I don't know.
Sonny00:05:18Look for a good used record store.
JVL00:05:21Vinyl. This is the weekend I get into vinyl. So that's all I got.
Sonny00:05:24You should get into vinyl. That's all I got, guys. You're too... You're too young for vinyl, really, right, JBL? Or were you into vinyl?
JVL00:05:33So when I was little, when I was a kid... You mean OG vinyl. Vinyl was a thing. Yeah, yeah. Not like the... Like my parents... My parents had records, right? Like they didn't do tapes. They had records. And I have... I mean, I remember like the first records I got, which is like as age six, there was like a Disney... A disco Disney record that we had that I loved. God help me. And that was a record, like, you know, and so, you know, I think I probably even had like a kid's 33 record player. But by the time I was, I would say like fifth grade even, everything was cassettes and tapes. And then by seventh grade, Chris Wershoven had a CD player because, of course, like Chris had the first CD player sold outside of Tokyo. And, you know, I would say I made the transition from CDs to cassettes. You mean like, you know, middle school, right? But but it was still mixed medium because you would have a CD and then you have cassettes and you you you'd have the mash together with the input output going in so you could record her to make tapes because you use your CDs to make your mixtapes to give your girls.
Mike00:06:48Yeah, sure.
JVL00:06:49Oh, yeah. That's right. And did you guys do mixtapes for your girlfriends when you were in like eighth grade or I did
Mike00:06:54not have the tapes already already. So well, you want to be growing the girls you were the girls you were sweet.
JVL00:06:59So when when I was you just played for them, you just played guitar for them. You didn't have to give them.
Mike00:07:05I did. I did do a little of that, but you play guitar at them.
JVL00:07:09I don't think I don't think I want to push you around. Yeah, I will.
Mike00:07:14No, I love that song. So no, the tapes will see what I remember is making mixtapes from like the radio. Oh, listen to that too. Pre CD and and doing all that by the time that I was like trying to woo girls and we're talking about girls here. We're talking about like the woman that I ended up marrying is was CDRs mix CDs. Oh, you were that was a wow.
JVL00:07:44That was MP3s.
Mike00:07:44You were burning CDs for them.
JVL00:07:46That was pretty.
Mike00:07:47Yeah, I mean that and that was like there was a lot. It's the same thing as the mixtape, right? Like you're you're very much like, OK, what comes next? You know, what do I really want to be saying here?
JVL00:07:58How many seconds do I want? Between them? How much is a two second pause?
Mike00:08:03That's that was solved by the by the computer program JVL that.
JVL00:08:08What did you do, Sonny? For for like the girls that you had a crush on in seventh grade?
Sonny00:08:15Again, this was not a thing that came up from this was not this was never a thing. I did that. I did the recording off the the radio. Certainly I did a lot of that, but that was all for me. That was just for me. My mixtape. My mixtapes were all for me. I was a very selfish. I was like when I when I when I got a CD, when I got a CD, I was like, yes, I could make my own personal mixes. So I had like a CD that was like no song shorter than six minutes. I had a long song CD and I had and I like I had I had a whole trove. I still have most of these.
Mike00:08:51I still have my mix CDs, too.
Sonny00:08:53I had a whole trove of Bruce Springsteen bootlegs, like all of the like major bootleg shows from the 78 tour and the and the 1980 tour I had. And I would I would like cycle through them. I'd be like, I want to listen to Passaic tonight. You know, I want to listen to Roxy. I like it was that that's how I used my CDR. Yeah, I did not. I was not I was not making a lot of like trying to get into ladies pants mixes. Well, I was not.
JVL00:09:26That was most of my major CD, Brittany. I think you might like it.
Sonny00:09:31No, that's really cool stuff.
JVL00:09:33You probably haven't heard of any of these groups. They're really dandy. They're big on.
Sonny00:09:37No, but this and but this is the other thing is that I'm not like I'm not a music guy. I'm not a music like my music. My music is very basic. And like, I'm not I'm not like, again, my my my my my mixes were often very logistical. It was like, I want to work out CD. So I'm going to like every song. It's fast in two minutes. Utilitarian. I want I've got a long drive CD where, again, it was like I think like the minimum track length was eight minutes or something like that. And it was like it was like it was only like eight songs because you can only put, you know, what I got nine songs because you could put 72 minutes.
Mike00:10:17Seventy minutes or 70, 70, 70, 71 minutes.
Sonny00:10:21Anyway, but that was not I was not I was not like, hey, here's slide. Away by Oasis.
JVL00:10:31Here's the gin blossoms.
Sonny00:10:33Yeah. Here's found out about you. Here's that.
JVL00:10:36I think you'll really like them.
Sonny00:10:38Queen of New Orleans. You're king of New Orleans. You like better than Ezra, right?
JVL00:10:43You go to the Springfield Mall together. They have a new Cinnabon Springfield Mall.
Sonny00:10:49God.
Mike00:10:50All right. So, OK, well, thank you, JV. How are you boys? What's going on with you?
Sonny00:10:57Do we want to do we want to talk? Hulk Hogan at all? Is that I think we should guys want to.
JVL00:11:03I would love to.
Sonny00:11:05I mean, I feel like we could we have to like, you know, JBL and I did a did a live stream about this earlier. So we maybe we're all Hulk Hogan out. But I do think it is. I he is such an omnipresent part of my cultural landscape for virtually the entirety of my life. Like there's there there there is no figure. There is no figure. Outside of a handful, I guess, of musicians, I mean, like Ozzy Osbourne being one of them also. But like there, you know, there are a handful of musicians, handful of movie stars, you know, guys like like a Tom Cruise, I guess, would probably fall fall into this. But there there are very few people who have been as omnipresent across multiple avenues of of reality, of American reality.
JVL00:12:05Tom Cruise has just been an actor for 40 years, right? This is closer to like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Sonny00:12:11But yeah, Arnold would be Arnold would be closer because Arnold Arnold, you know, is an actor and he's a politician. Yeah, but even but like but you know, there was but even even after he was a politician, there was like Arnold Schwarzenegger was like his. I don't know, there's some Arnold Schwarzenegger was classier, I guess, is the only way I could put it, because like Hulk Hogan was Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan was, you know, he was a wrestler, which is bad enough. But then he's also a reality TV star and he's like a constant pitch man. And then he's a he's like kind of a pseudo political figure. And I, I just I find I find him I find him to be utterly fascinating. I do not think you can understand America. Post 1980 without having some concept of who he is and how he helped create the enterprise that is the world where what is now World Wrestling Entertainment, what at the time was World Wrestling Federation. You can't understand like they're like niche things. You can't understand like the Monday Night Wars without understanding. But there's also like, I think, big, broader structural social things about America, about him as the avatar of the. 1980s, the post-Malay's Reagan era flag waving, I got big muscles and I'm going to kick the shit out of the Iron Sheik guy like that is it is such a it's such a particular thing, but he does this again and again where he kind of shows up as the avatar of what America is or is dealing with or kind of conceives itself as in the 19, you know, the mid 1990s, he does his famous heel. Turn and this is a moment when America is in the midst of all the Clinton drama and there's, you know, the biggest movie in the world is Independence Day, which is sold by to people by like blowing up the White House and I don't think those two things are unrelated precisely like I think there there was this like there was this real sense of unease about everything that lent that made it the perfect moment for like the classic archetypal good guy to go bad for the first time in
Mike00:14:33his career and a little a little boredom to write like a little boredom with where things were right like that reflect that was very much reflective of like we like we won the Cold War let's like what else we do you know what let's go bad and then
Sonny00:14:48and then just like on top of everything else you have you have every wrestler from that era dying you have every wrestler from that era dying Ultimate Warrior Macho Man the Bulldog I mean like Owen Hart in the ring but like you know like like all of these guys Sid Vicious just dropping dead one after the other yep and Hogan kind of like keep keep it on keep it on just like like he it felt like he if I did not think he would be there forever but it felt kind of like he would be there forever because all of these other all of these other figures from the same time.
JVL00:15:29They're dying right big John stud Roddy Piper King Kong Bundy Bam Bam Bigelow they're all gone Bobby he all gone and Hulk was just there and basically looking kind of the same.
Sonny00:15:43And that is I mean really like he's always looked old because he's always had that kind of like skullcap you know and and like he lost his hair so early that he always lost that he always looked old right so like I saw somebody sharing a video of one of his you know early 80s videos today and somebody was like he's 33 in this video and like he looks the same as he looked 55 or you know 60 so I don't know I like I'm and and you know there's there's the political stuff there's also the gawker stuff and this is this is the other thing that like again he kind of in he reinserts into the national conversation as the guy who destroys gawker. And it turns out he was a puppet like which again is like the most professional wrestling thing that could have happened like did Hulk Hogan Hulk Hogan being the puppet for Peter Teal the power behind the scenes is a storyline that could have come right out of Monday Night
JVL00:16:45Raw. It's Andre the Giant being secretly manipulated by Ted DiBiase.
Sonny00:16:50I don't know I like you we can we can discuss the ethics of a billionaire funding a journal jihad and anti-journalism jihad against a website that he felt had wronged them but like the the specifics of the Hogan case felt pretty felt at the time pretty straightforward and still feel pretty straightforward like he wasn't suing for defamation or slander or any of that he was suing for invasion of privacy and his privacy was invaded like I you know I'm with you and also like Gawker and Deadspin were bad this is and this is yeah this is like his return to to his departure from being a heel his return to being a heel a baby face like he did he beat the bad guys like Gawker and Deadspin were were bad organizations that were doing bad things and some of so and and and it was protected because it was journalism and it should have been protected because it was journalism but they should not have been let off the hook for every bad thing they did and somebody finally fucking blew him up and it happened to be Hulk Hogan like I don't know so anyway you didn't you
Mike00:17:59know the the reality TV show in the in the mid in the mid aughts Hogan knows best and I believe Brooke also did a reality show after after that yeah and you know again it wasn't the I mean it wasn't speaking of some somebody else Ozzy Osbourne wasn't the Osbournes level of like you know cultural penetration but it was it was definitely in that same universe of those early aughts ridiculous you know put a camera in this. Famous persons home and show them being kind of uh uh some ways against going against type you know they're with their family they're not the the person that they portray on on
JVL00:18:42stage but it has to be freak show correct it can't it can't be like normal lifestyles of the rich and famous it had there has to be a like look at this freak show element
Mike00:18:52to it totally which was the Osbournes in a way it was it was um the Kardashians too uh the Kardashians are sort of like. They they create they were living in the world that these other shows created and that's all and like Hulk Hogan is like you say Sonny the through line and all so rest in peace.
JVL00:19:07I have some questions for you guys um starting with you Michael correct me if I'm wrong but your entry point to Hulk Hogan is all or mostly long after his wrestling career is over right?
Mike00:19:22No so I mean I was I got into wrestling to the extent that I got into wrestling it was during the NWO era.
JVL00:19:29Um okay so you're catching Hulk Hogan at the very end of his wrestling career and so for you correct it's mostly as a cultural figure and not as a wrestler which is interesting.
Mike00:19:40Correct yeah correct but I mean it was also like he had he was so I mean he was like in movies in commercials on TV in the whole even before the NWO turn like in the wrestling in in the original Hulk Hogan character and so it was just he just existed. You know and so like he was just always there in my like Zsa Zsa Gabor right like one of
JVL00:20:06these you know these people who are always famous for being famous Charo Charo yes um
Mike00:20:13anyway well I got nothing going on in my life so let's just move on and what talk what I got nothing going on I got nothing just it's it's a workaday uh I'm a workaday guy you know just in and out just trying to it's trying to make my nut and get to get to my next vacation that's all I think about um but uh so why don't we move on to box office talk and just and just talk some box office uh number one again for the second week in a row is superman it is uh I mean it dropped a little over 50 from its first week um yeah it's it's in a few more theaters it's now up to what 236 million um strong number one um it's it's almost catching up with jurassic world um which is in its third week uh and it's at number two um and then we had I know what you did last summer which is is okay so is this a soft reboot of the original is this just a yeah okay I
Sonny00:21:16think it's I think it's it's technically a sequel because it takes place you know it has the I actually I gotta say I don't think I ever actually saw ice I know what you did last summer I don't I don't think I ever saw any of those movies yeah well Vic saw the first one 37 times so um no I don't I don't think I and I but this like a minute and then got very sleepy judging judging judging from the advertising campaign the trailers which I've seen a thousand times it's got it's got the cast from the original and they're they're you know I assume somebody's somebody's uh killing again and Jennifer Love Kiewit asks what did you do last summer well somebody knows somebody knows uh no I was you know what's interesting is um the well Superman dropped 53% which is an okay hold but not spectacular I assume it'll kind of fall off a cliff this week with Fantastic Four coming in um one thing worth keeping an eye on is the continued struggles at the overseas box office uh Superman has done 60% of its business domestically only 40% international which is a which is an unusual percentage usually that would be the other way around uh I mean for instance Jurassic World Rebirth and even this one is like kind of kind of a light mix but it it's only uh it is 43% domestic 56% international I mean it's not as bad as Sinners which uh Sinners again is just a very funny Sinners is a very funny movie because you know that the box office on that one is done and I it's one of these things where there was a big fight there's a big fight about Sinners and the box office and you know some uh some folks were like it's not going to perform and other folks were like you got to give it a chance uh but it did 278 million dollars domestic which is an enormous number it's a multiple of I want to say uh let me just it's a multiple of six or so um which is a huge number uh like twice as twice as good a multiple off the opening weekend as you usually see but the 278 million dollars domestically it only did 87 million international right so like the the you know both both sides the world is racist well that's the thing that is literally it's literally true and so like people said this when the movie came out like you know it's got it's got a pretty big budget it's gonna be hard for it to make its money back because international is gonna be soft because people don't go don't go see movies with black leads and a lot of like uh black journalists and writers were like that's you know it's just reinforcing stereotypes and that's why we can't get a lot of denzel washington movies and blah blah but it's just objectively true like the movies that right it's
JVL00:24:09not racist to say it it's it's it's racist preferences well no it's it's recognizing the racism that exists out in the world i mean like chinese audiences not interested in seeing
Sonny00:24:21black american leads but also also european audiences and like in south american audience like it just it's the movie the movie died overseas but it's doesn't matter because like this is the thing i keep this is the thing i keep hammering home to people is that the american audience uh shows up for african-american led movies because african americans are overrepresented in movies in movie audiences um and they like to see movies starring black uh actors and telling black stories and like that does cause some issues with budgeting because can't count on overseas blah blah blah but like i'm sorry the if you if you put ryan coogler and michael b jordan together um they're gonna make you money that's just what that's what's gonna happen and they're gonna make you money on the backs of the american audience not the not the overseas audience uh the the other interesting thing i just want to note is funny for me on a personal level um which is that uh smurfs yes smurfs came so smurfs came out and for months now every time the smurfs trailer plays in front of a movie my kids are like can we go see that can we go see that my son in particular is like i want to go see smurfs i'm like yeah sure we can go see smurfs so i thought like well there's maybe this movie's gonna really be big but no it grossed 11 million dollars um it did not it did not do very well uh and i and i asked him i asked him today because my daughter has a birthday party on sunday and i was like do you want to go see smurfs at the movies to get out of the house for a bit without hesitation i want to see smurfs did you go i want i want to see smurfs well we it's on sunday so we we will i am going
Mike00:26:11to see smurfs probably enjoy that so question question about i'm sorry what continuity is this with the previous smurf movies like this is a complete reboot mike i'm not an expert what's universe that's not what i mean i mean like is it is it supposed to be like just a new smurfs
Sonny00:26:36franchise or what how on how on god's green earth should i know this is your job sonny what do they pay you to do over there not to know this kind of thing i i would say i would say um this is not my job really is keeping track of you know what what iteration of smurfs we're on i'm just confused
Mike00:26:55because it feels like they just made a bunch of smurfs movies well they make them all
Sonny00:26:58the time there's like a smurf there's their constant there's smurfs movies smurfs tv shows coming out this is why he wants to see it it's because he watches it on fucking beacock or whatever is there a modern smurfs tv show there there's smurfs content out there man i don't know what to tell you um but i'm not i'm not watching it so uh anyway but i will be watching the new smurfs probably this week and i will let you guys know how it is if it it's as good as it's as good as every other iteration of the smurfs who would have thought where is who would have been tested for tracking uh you know the the numbers have been kind of all over on it we i keep seeing anything anywhere from like as low as 80 million to as high as 130 million um i would guess it's probably i would guess it probably comes in right around
JVL00:27:5190 or so um but that would be a very big opening for the modern marvel well this
Sonny00:27:58So, I mean, these things and these things tend to be front loaded, too. So, like, you know, I don't know. I the Marvel Universe, once again, is just kind of, you know, in a weird spot. I will say I think Superman is going to handily outgross it both both worldwide and domestic. If I had to guess, you know, I saw Fantastic Four. It's fine. And it's like it's it's a very it's a it's it's it's it's occasionally a very charming movie. It's it's it's very competent. It moves from beat to beat. It's absurd in in the way that a lot of the early Marvel stuff was where things just happen. Like, and you don't really question it because, like, Reed Richards is a super scientific genius. He can just do things. For instance, like, I don't know. Are we going to do Fantastic Four next week?
Mike00:28:50Maybe maybe we should.
Sonny00:28:52I don't know. No, but there there is this there's this one moment where they just kind of casually mentioned that the Fantastic Four have mastered faster than light travel. They just they just hop in a they just hop in a in a spaceship and zoom off to see Galactus at faster than light. So, you know.
Mike00:29:11All right. Anyway, remind me. Well, maybe if we do this next week, maybe we can have a discussion. I'm just trying to figure out where it fits into the into the MCU's multiverse thing. But let's. Let's let's save that for another.
Sonny00:29:24Well, it does. It does take place on an all. It's not the main earth. It's an alternate. OK, it says right in like there's an opening title card. It's Earth 828.
Mike00:29:33Oh, my favorite Earth. All right. Any other thoughts on the on the box office?
JVL00:29:40No.
?00:29:40No.
Mike00:29:41All right. Well, then why don't we move on and talk about a movie that hasn't been at the box office in 45 years? Caddyshack. This was OK. Just full disclosure. But behind the curtain, how the sausage is made. This was my idea to do this movie. And I don't know how you guys are going to feel about doing this, but I just figured it was like one of these good like rewatches that we could do. And I would just love to start, Sonny, with a big boy review of Caddyshack.
Sonny00:30:16Caddyshack. Caddyshack directed by Harold Ramis. I believe this is his first. Yes, his debut. His directorial debut and written by Ramis and Douglas Kenny, who he worked with at National Lampoon and Brian Doyle Murray. Caddyshack stars a kid who doesn't know what he's going to do with his future. He's he's bag boy at this country club and country club has a new member. It's some real jerk. Rodney Dangerfield is causing chaos and stirring up some yellow parrots. Carol, did you guys catch that? The whole yellow peril aspect of like, oh, yeah, which is why it's so it's so fascinating. So many movies from this time just kind of like kind of sneak that in. Anyway, so Danny is working, working at this country club and he is trying to get in good with Judge Smalls. Smales, smells, smells, smells, smells, smells. Judge, Judge Smales, because he thinks that that's, you know, the key to getting a good recommendation and, you know, getting the scholarship at the at the club and blah, blah, blah. Also, there's the groundskeeper, Carl, who is played, of course, by one Bill Murray and is the the kind of iconic character from this film. He spends the whole movie hunting that groundhog. Eventually, there's whatever the go for. Go for in a groundhog.
Mike00:31:53They're different animals.
Sonny00:31:55OK, whatever. Now I'm now I'm all now I'm thrown off. Now I'm sorry.
Mike00:32:02Sorry.
Sonny00:32:02Anyway, there's also there's also a love story and and Chevy Chase is there and he's a real dickhead.
JVL00:32:10Don't forget Lacey Underall.
Sonny00:32:12And there's Lacey Underall. Anyway, I'm going to be honest. I didn't rewatch the movie for this for this show. Because because I watched it. I watched it about about a month ago. I watched I was at I was at some event like some event, some school event at a country club. And this was playing on in the background, except it was like the VH1 version.
JVL00:32:37Yeah.
Sonny00:32:37So it was it was it was all censored. No. And and just which led to just some very funny moments like, you know, there's there's the there's the one girl whose nipples are like constantly kind of protruding through. Her shirt and like is really it's like her name is Lacey Underall. Lacey Underall. And and it was like they couldn't cut the scenes. So they just did like they did like pussies over them on the board. And it's not it wasn't blurred out precisely. And it wasn't like it wasn't like a black bar. It was like it was like they just put like the same color as her shirt over them. It was like, did you have you guys ever watched the. Showgirls VH1 version, the VH1 version. So if you ever have the good fortune to catch showgirls on VH1, the they can't cut lots of the scenes. Right. Because they're integral to the film. And and the characters are often naked in them. So what they did is they like painted on bikinis and stuff.
JVL00:33:44Oh, on to them during in post.
Sonny00:33:48And that's kind of that's kind of what's going on here. Anyway. I it was it was interesting to kind of watch this on mutant in the background because I. I I'm going to be honest, I don't love Caddyshack. I don't love Caddyshack in the same way that I love National Lampoon's Animal House and National Lampoon's Vacation. Like Caddyshack has always felt. Even looser and more episodic than those two movies, which are already very loose and episodic. And also, like, I just didn't. I didn't I didn't care about the setting. I didn't care about the country club setting. I didn't like I was not I was not interested. I'm not a I'm not really a golfer. I play golf, but I'm not I'm not a golfer. I don't I don't care about country clubs. The whole the whole scene and the whole vibe. And also, I've been a Rodney Dink guy. And so his whole his whole like kind of boisterous. I've always found him to be somewhat annoying. And in this movie in particular is just. Like kind of the the where all that that comes together. I would never dispute this, that this is a funny movie. It is occasional. It is often quite funny. It is just not to my taste. It is not to my taste. I have never I've never loved Patty Shack the way that I have loved other similar like kind of slobby snob type movies. And I know this is a great disappointment. JBL is JBL turn this camera. We're back on. He had turned his camera off. That's right. He wants he he want he wants me to see the disappointment in his eyes as I say this. But I yeah, I am sorry. I'm going to now bow out and let you guys really take over from here because I I just don't I don't have a ton to contribute to this episode. It's never been it's never been a huge a huge part of my movie repertoire.
Mike00:35:48Well, just because you don't care for it doesn't mean you don't have a lot to contribute. Here, Sonny. So we appreciate it.
JVL00:35:53JVL. Michael, do you do you want to do you want to do this or do you want me to? Wait, I feel like we're the two bobs in office space, you know, like the guy comes in and like, you know, they both want to rip him a new asshole. JVL, you you seem raring to go here. Go ahead. So, Sonny, I can tell you why you don't like it. I can explain it to you because the movie makes one utterly inexplicable choice. Was that the which is that the a plot. Is about a character that literally nobody cares about Danny.
Sonny00:36:30Yeah.
JVL00:36:31And the movie revolves. They sent that the that Caddyshack has a through line. The through line is Danny's progress through whether he can win the club championship, whether he will go to college, whether he can get a scholarship, whether he will sleep with Lacey Underall, whether his girlfriend is pregnant and will need an abortion, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And this is the again, Danny has more screen time than any other any other character in Caddyshack. He is not on the poster. Yep. Why is that? It's because nobody fucking cares about this character. And this is the to my mind, the only flaw in a movie that is otherwise an absolute classic in which is. I mean, it just how you say, yes, it's all very loose and episodic. But the stuff in it, which is loose and episodic and which is not concerning the A-plot, is the finest gold that has ever been refined in comedy. I mean, Bill Murray washing the balls while he's talking about the old ladies in the beginning. And, you know, the way they hide it. So you think like, holy shit, he's jerking off in public. Like, again, there are so many. Layers to the joke, right? Like what he's saying about the women is funny, but then you see that he's not Murray doesn't have it in for Lacey Underall. He's really into like these 65 and 70 year old women. That's funny that it looks like he's jerking off. That's funny that it's revealed. He's actually just doing the ball washer thing. Everything about it is just layer upon layer upon layer in the movie is filled with shit like that. It's just that absolutely nothing that has. To do with the a plot is memorable at all, and it mystifies me how a movie like this comes together and becomes such a classic, despite the fact that the script. Like I did, did Ramis not understand what he had? I think that's the answer is that Ramis didn't quite understand what he had and that a lot of this stuff wound up being serendipity. I mean, Murray famously improvised. Most of his dialog and well, I do other stuff going on, but all the great characters, Ted Knight, right? Judge Smale, everything with Judge Smales is hysterical. So funny. Everything with with Chevy Chase and Bill Murray and even Cindy Morgan is like very funny. The bishop hysterical, right? And I, by the way, can I tell you one of the great like little jokes in this is the Ted Knight is playing. The wasp, yes, wasp, whoever wasped Judge Elihu Smales. Do you guys know what Ted Knight's Christian name was? No. Tadusz Władysław Konopka. Real. This guy is as Polish as the day is long. Oh, that's funny. He is. He and his parents were immigrants, his Polish immigrants. He grew up. He's one of these kids. He was like when, you know, finished high school and volunteered to join, you know, just signed up to go fight in World War Two. He is as Polish as the day is long. And that in itself is just like a funny little side guy. He's so good in this. He's so great. So great. I don't like, again, everything about it is great. So long as you, if you could just cut out, if you could turn this movie, it's an hour 48, I think, or an hour 28. If you simply cut all. All of the Danny stuff out and made it like a 65 minute movie. It's perfect. And it's the funniest thing ever put to film.
Mike00:40:33By the way, I will solve the mystery for you, JVL, of how they how they made this movie. Lots of cocaine. Yes.
Sonny00:40:42That's the other. That's how that's that's that is another thing. This is a cocaine movie. This is this is a this is a scatterbrained cocaine movie. And I am not a user of cocaine. And I don't spend a lot of time around people who do use cocaine. And this is one of the reasons why I preferred National Lampoon's Animal House, which, although there was no shortage of cocaine on the set of that particular motion picture, that's an alcohol. That's a that's a booze movie. That is a that's like a hang out and get drunk with your friends movie, not a let's get high and, you know, run around.
JVL00:41:21So you boys want to know a secret? Go ahead. I've never actually seen Animal House.
Sonny00:41:27Really? Well, you can't see it now. It's too late. Yeah, it is too late for me.
JVL00:41:33The idea of a movie about college in which the college is funny and fun is so anathema that I just you would want raises all of the hackles.
Sonny00:41:45You would want Delta House expelled. You would be see you. You were like, see, I like double. Secret probation. Frankly, I emphasize I empathize with Judge Smales in this film. Like you got you got you got this this nouveau riche asshole coming in and with his loud pants and his loud manners. And he's he's messing the place up. And, you know, I don't know, man. But that's how you would be. That's how you would be with Delta House. I think you would be like, why are we supposed to cheer for these people?
JVL00:42:16They are awfully the bishop getting struck by lightning on the final hole. As he is about to break the club record because he takes the Lord's name in vain when he misses the final putt. I'm I'm sorry. And then loses his face is so funny. Yeah, the the Carl, you know, oh, the the heavy chef won't be coming down for quite some time.
Mike00:42:40It's it's like boring down, right?
JVL00:42:43Everything, you know, smalls, you'll you'll you'll play golf and like it to the nephew.
Mike00:42:49The grandson, the grandson is. So it's so like everything with the grandson.
JVL00:42:53I want a hot dog. I want a hamburger. I want to go. And even a little bit. I mean, I actually think this is Chevy Chase's most charming role. And, you know, he's a little like, do you do drugs, Danny? Danny's very quick, like response every day, every day. Good.
Mike00:43:15Yeah, there's a couple of moments like that.
JVL00:43:16Yeah, I don't I just so again, I. I'm so I'm not surprised, Sonny, but it is a weird movie because of this.
Sonny00:43:26Yeah, no, I look again, I I can.
JVL00:43:29Do you does anybody care whether or not the girlfriend, the Irish girlfriend is pregnant?
Sonny00:43:34I forget she's in the movie every time until I watch it again.
JVL00:43:38And this movie spends so much time on whether or not she's pregnant.
Mike00:43:42I mean, the whole thing feel it feels like that plot is just from another movie, right? Like this was this was. That's the Brian Doyle Murray part of the movie, because this is all based on Brian Doyle Murray's own experience working as a caddy caddy. And so his part of the movie is is that stuff and he's in the movie. So, you know, he's it's it's in there. But like it's the Doug Kenny. Just what is funny? Throw it in there like the scene, the scene with where where where Tom. I plays through Carl's house, Carl's little hovel that he lives in like that was written on set. But I think Harold Ramis like wrote it with Bill Murray and Chevy Chase like in a night before they filmed it, because Bill Murray and Chevy Chase had never been in a movie before and never would be in a movie together again, like on screen together. So it was just like, hey, let's we got to let's let's let's have these two characters be together and have this have this scene together. And like, what's that going to push out the boring, the boring A-plot? So in a way, it's like good that they had that A-plot that they could like shave stuff off of it, put the funnier stuff in. So have I frozen?
Sonny00:45:06No, you're there.
Mike00:45:07OK, good. A couple of other thoughts about this. So I rewatched this last night, the night before we taped it, and my wife watched most of it, not all of it, but most of it with me. And I mean, we've both seen it before, but like I was struck by how much we were just like organically laughing. You know, it's like, you know, what's coming, you know, the baby Ruth Barr thing is coming. But like, it's still so funny. All of the characterizations of everybody, like Judge Smales, his wife, she's so she's so perfectly cast. And I mean, Lacey Underall. Oh, Cindy Morgan. Cindy Morgan.
JVL00:45:50She's a formative. She's a knockout.
Mike00:45:53Yeah. Well, it's funny because you mentioned the VH1 cut because that's how I first saw this movie. It was just like on TV, like randomly. And then this memory, because this is like very much in like my my mom's wheelhouse in terms of how she was like, you know, in her in her 20s when this movie comes out. And she and at some point, I don't know, I was like 11. She's like, oh, let's rent Caddyshack and you can watch it. And like. We like all sit down to watch Caddyshack together. And also it's like, whoa, let's maybe, you know, fast forward through the full frontal nudity.
Sonny00:46:30But it was like a revelation when movies back when movies could be funny and sex.
Mike00:46:34That's right.
Sonny00:46:35You don't have to pick one or the other.
Mike00:46:38Can we talk a little bit about Rodney Dangerfield? Because I know Sonny hates or doesn't care for Rodney.
Sonny00:46:43I don't hate Rodney Dangerfield. I don't hate I find his stand up often very amusing. I just like I find him to be. I don't like his screen presence. I don't like I'm, you know, I just I don't.
Mike00:46:57All right. Well, but this is the movie that like that. I mean, he was working at this point as a on on the stand up circuit. But like this is the movie. This is the moment that makes Rodney Dangerfield like the legend that he is now because people knew who he was. And he was doing TV hits and stuff like that. But this like starts his movie career, right? Like this is back to school comes from this ladybugs, all those all those. And I mean, I just think like between it's so funny that this movie that's sort of like the young drug culture National Lampoon movie. And of course, Bill Murray and Chevy Chase like are fantastic in it. But it's it's so funny to me. That's the it's the two older leads who are, to me, the funniest in it. That was, you know, both Ted Knight and Rodney Dangerfield. Like they got the most like actual. Like belly laughs for me on this rewatch and just kind of interesting. Anyway, I don't know.
JVL00:47:57Ted Knight would be dead six years after this was filmed. That's amazing. No, not not six years. Didn't he make that?
Mike00:48:04Didn't he have that TV show? Too close for comfort. Too close for comfort.
JVL00:48:08Yeah, that only that only ran for three seasons. Wow. Yeah. I didn't cancer. I mean, it really is. Again, someday we someday not very long from now. We'll watch this movie again and every single person and it will be dead. Yeah. And that is a little a little much. But so is this the movie that catapults Bill Murray to stardom? So he is on Saturday Night Live at this point.
Mike00:48:38Correct. He's in the last season of being on Saturday Night Live. Right.
JVL00:48:43And then he's in this and he steals every saying. And, you know, the legend of Caddyshack is that. He is hired for a small part. He comes in. He improvises everything. And Ramis just keeps the camera rolling. And then eventually, like his stuff is so good. They bring him back like after here and do six more days of shoots with him just because they're like, we got to just like bottle this. He's amazing.
Sonny00:49:10Yeah.
JVL00:49:11And he is amazing. I mean, he is amazing in this movie. I just think it's one of the great comedic performances.
Mike00:49:19So before this movie. Uh, he makes meatballs, which is kind of his first. So meatballs comes out a year earlier.
JVL00:49:25Meatballs is first. Yeah.
Mike00:49:26But then, then, then just look at what happens like immediately after Caddyshack. You got stripes, uh, and then Ghostbusters.
JVL00:49:33Yeah.
Mike00:49:34Um, and like, he really just kind of hits, like hits the ground running very, very soon after this. And, um, I mean, you like, it's, it's also funny because while he's hilarious in this and it's a very, it's a specific speed of Bill Murray. It's, it's not the Bill Murray that kind of takes off in these later eighties movies. Right. He's, he's, he's not the sarcastic kind of like almost commenting on the fact that he's. The Scrooged version of himself. Yeah. Or even Ghostbusters, even the Venkman.
Sonny00:50:03He's an idiot. He's a, he's a, he's a moron in this movie. And that is not the Bill Murray character. It's, it's more.
Mike00:50:09What about Bob Bill Murray?
JVL00:50:11It's like more of that character. But this is the thing. It's not the character that takes off. It's everybody recognizing. That holy shit, this guy's funny. Yes. Right. And like it, he's going to, he's going to wind up creating a character that he can inhabit. And that character will not be Carl Spackler. But just again, it's the sheer weight of his talent, which I think shines through in this. And again, particularly because he's just ad-libbing stuff. And I don't know. Did you guys remember the New Yorker story about Ramis?
Mike00:50:50And Murray breaking up over, um, over a groundhog day?
JVL00:50:56Uh, I don't think so. It's just, it was like, you know, 30,000 words about their, their relationship with their
Mike00:51:03life. Cause they, cause they hated each other after groundhog day or like during groundhog day. So I don't know.
JVL00:51:08I think they made up eventually. Yes.
Mike00:51:09Eventually. Yeah.
JVL00:51:10Like Ramis tells a story about something they were filming in like Vietnam, I think. And, uh, Murray. Just like took off one day and, you know, like nobody knew where he was. And so they begin the process of tracking him down and, uh, you know, they got a village. Somebody saw him at this little place where they rent mopeds. And then, so he goes to the wrong bed rental. Where did he say he was going to go? Well, he said he was going to go down that road. They, they fall anyway. And they, they find him in this little Vietnamese village and he has the entire village outside around him in a. Circle, nobody there speaks a word of English and these people are on the fucking floor laughing and it's, it, it, you know, like, and, and Ramis like walks in to see this. It's just like, oh, this guy, you know, like the talent is just off the charts. Totally. Yeah.
Sonny00:52:11No, I like, I, I, he is, it's, it's interesting.
JVL00:52:16I said to Daddy Lama, I said, I said, I'm going to do something, you know, for the effort. So there won't be a number of times that I say that line in my daily life where I will say to one of the kids, Hey, have it a little something for the effort. You know, like it's, you will have this and like it.
Mike00:52:33Like I, there's a lot of great lines like that.
JVL00:52:36There, there are lines which are just part of my vernacular, which I don't even remember come from Caddyshack. And I think this is true. Like a lot, like in the world, you always, you know, oh, you'll take this and like it. Like that is a thing that people say and nobody knows where it comes from. It's like all, you know, all these lines that come from the Bible that nobody knows. Right, right. That's what it refers to.
Mike00:52:54It is Caddyshack, yeah. Totally. Caddyshack, the modern Bible, I think is really the way to think about it. So any other thoughts? Oh, just the last thing is just the, speaking of Bill Murray, it does, I mean, I think you're right, JVL, about Chevy Chase. This is sort of like his, his most charming. And there's something interesting about the, their, about Murray and Chase's kind of their stars passing each other. Obviously, Chevy Chase makes a bunch of movies after this and is, but there's something about, uh, I'm, I'm fascinated by the two of them because Murray's brought in to replace Chevy Chase on Saturday Night Live. And famously, one of the times that Chase comes back to host the show, he and Bill Murray got into like a fist fight before the curtain comes up. Yeah, exactly.
JVL00:53:45And do you remember how this is, how this ends? Um, I don't remember.
Mike00:53:50The best line.
JVL00:53:51So the, the, the greatest insult ever. So, uh, what has happened is the rest of the cast who hated Chase and didn't want him back. They were only, he was back because he was Lauren's pet. Uh, they are all week long sort of prodding Murray with like, you got to stand up for us. You got to show this fucking guy who's what. And then five minutes before curtain goes up, uh, he and Chevy start bumping chests in the back and things are getting really like. Things are going from like, Hey, two guys being dicks to holy shit, they might hit each other. And so they're getting pulled apart as they start like grabbing. Right. And Bill Murray shouts at him, medium talent, medium talent, which the best insult of all time.
Mike00:54:38The greatest insult of all time. Totally.
JVL00:54:42No, that's great.
Mike00:54:43Uh, I just think there's an interesting like dynamic where Chevy Chase is so Northeast waspy and, and Bill Murray is so Chicago, you know, like there's a dynamic there. It's like the, the, the sort of Midwest Irish guy, like kind of, I don't know, it feels like he wins in that sort of cosmic battle. And, and obviously like Chevy Chase is like, uh, this has so much to do with his personality, but I do think it also has to do with like, there was a bit of a slob versus snob fight between the two of them and, and, and, and the slob won out.
JVL00:55:20I think, can I ask you guys? Cause my sense is that Chevy Chase is not well-loved in the, no, no, no, he is. He is. Is that correct? Yeah.
Mike00:55:31Have you, have you heard that JBL? That's yeah.
JVL00:55:33So it is one of these things where he, he was very funny for a brief period of time, but like, it wasn't him. Like he was really, I mean, he's using other people's words, right? I mean, it was just, he was just an actor.
Sonny00:55:49He wasn't funny. He wasn't funny enough to be as big an asshole as he was. And he was, and, and right. Like he wasn't a standup guy. He couldn't just go out on the road and do his own material. There wasn't, there was no, he was an actor. He was, he was an actor and he was, he was a very solid one. And like, again, I, I prefer, I prefer animal house or I'm sorry. I prefer vacation to this movie, national lampoons vacation. At least in part, because I do think the focus of the movie is Chevy Chase. And that's like almost as funny. As any dad has ever been on a film that, that, that whole, that whole thing. I, again, I like, I even think, I even think Caddyshack would have been better if it had been focused on, if you could have found a story for him to follow him versus judge smells. I'm trying to, but like, man, it, no, it just, it just doesn't, it doesn't work.
Mike00:56:43Yeah. Yeah. All right. Any, any other thoughts JVL on, on Caddyshack or.
JVL00:56:50Um, or, or this kind of while we're, while we're at it, um, Chevy Chase has given name Cornelius Crane Chase born in New York city and educated at Bard college.
Sonny00:57:06Right. I mean, again, how is he never on Frazier?
Mike00:57:12Uh, yeah. And also I believe his, his, uh, mother's stepfather or something was a Vanderbilt. Um, something like that. Something like that.
JVL00:57:20So it's like, you can't father went to Princeton.
Mike00:57:23Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right. Uh, any other thoughts? All right. Uh, I think that's all the time we're going to give to this episode. Uh, join us over at sub beacon.com. Uh, tell us what, uh, your favorite line in Caddyshack is in the comments and we'll talk to you next time. Speaking of that, JV, I often use, oh, but it looks good on you or some version of that. It's one of the, oh, just so good. You get a hat like this, you get a free bowl of soup.
JVL00:58:02I, uh, I want to say to you, Sonny, about Rodney Dangerfield. I think you and I are in the same place on him. So I, Rodney Dangerfield's comedy and a persona are not to my taste. And yet I recognize he is an astonishing technician. Like he's like, you know, everything he does is really, really refined. Like it's not, it doesn't work for me.
Sonny00:58:28Right, right.
JVL00:58:29But what he's doing is intentional and like, it's, it's pretty impressive. Does that make sense? I think that's probably where you are.
Sonny00:58:35More or less. Yeah. I mean, like, again, I, I admire his standup work a lot because he, he has that kind of perfect, he has that perfect combination of writing, timing, and, uh, mannerism. Attitude. On, on stage that like sell him being the like put upon schlub like that, that like I'll watch, I'll watch five minutes of Rodney Dangerfield stand up anytime, anytime. I don't know that I've ever actually sat down and watched a full 45 minutes set of his. It just like, it, it, it's one of these small doses things for me. And this is, this is one reason why he actually works in this to the extent that again, I'm in. I'm in the minority here. I realize that. Uh, but to the extent that he works in this movie for me, it's that he is often just kind of popping in and being like, Hey, look at, look at what's going on with the, look at this guy over here. Eyes too tight. Oh. And like, you know, I don't know.
JVL00:59:35So, uh, I'm sorry. I just got to throw this at you while, while Chevy was at Bard, he was in a band. Yep. Do you guys know this?
Mike00:59:44Yes. Steely Dan.
JVL00:59:45The other two guys left and formed Steely Dan. That's wild.
Mike00:59:51Holy shit. I know. It's amazing. It's amazing. Uh, by the way, wait, so are you not a fan of, sorry, I keep going back to Rodney here. You're not a fan of back to school, Sonny?
Sonny01:00:02Don't care for it. Don't care for it at all.
JVL01:00:05Courtney Thorne Smith. Was that, do I have that right? No. I'm just doing that from memory.
Mike01:00:08No. Sally Kellerman.
JVL01:00:10Um, um, no, Courtney Thorne Smith is in the, the Mark Harmon summer school. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Sorry.
Sonny01:00:22The only, my favorite Rodney Dangerfield film performance is actually natural born killers where he plays the like Al Bundy character, the like curdled Al Bundy character. But again, it like, yeah, in part because it's riffing off of the, it's riffing off of not only like sitcoms and whatever, but also his own kind of persona, like a very curdled version of it. Like a, like a, uh, like what? What would it look like if Rodney Dangerfield was a real person, he'd be like actually kind of gross and terrifying. Um, and that is, uh, you know, that, that, that works for me, um, in a way that a lot, again, a lot of that movie doesn't work for me either, but I, he is very good in it.
Mike01:01:06All right. Well, I'm sure it's fine. Yeah.
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