#302. 'Havoc' (Netflix)
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This week's movie is Netflix's Gareth Evans-directed action pic Havoc, starring Tom Hardy as a dirty-cop-with-a-heart-of-gold caught between crooked partners, a Chinese mob, and a mayoral candidate (Forest Whitaker) whose son is mixed up in a drug heist — and the hosts are unusually united in disliking it. Sonny, who pitched the episode because he loves Evans's The Raid films, found the plot murky and unmemorable and grew more annoyed with the movie the further he got from it, complaining about the CGI-and-squib blood overload, the shaky-cam car chases, and Hardy's near-unintelligible mumbled line readings (Timothy Olyphant, playing a charming villain, is the one performer he liked). Mike was even more bored, couldn't follow the tangled plot involving an ICU'd ex-partner and an uncle passed over for a promotion, and was thrown by the movie's fictional-city look (it turns out it was filmed in Wales, not any real American city). JVL is the lone dissenter, arguing the gunplay-heavy action is overused but that the "indecipherable" plot and the Hardy/Timothy Olyphant/Forest Whitaker performances are the most interesting thing he's seen in a made-for-Netflix movie in a while. The back half turns into a fun tangent on great Tom Hardy performances (Bane, Inception, Fury Road's Max, Locke, Layer Cake) and JVL's theory that Hardy is a rare "eye actor" who commands the screen without conventional star swagger. Before any of that, the opening banter runs long: JVL raves about a trip to Cooperstown and a lengthy ode to his new Weber Spirit grill (assembled for free by his beloved local Ace Hardware) that spirals into a debate over smash-burger technique with Mike and Sonny; Sonny recounts attending a 25th-anniversary Dogma tour screening and Q&A with Kevin Smith, praising Smith's DIY roadshow business model even while lamenting his post-Clerks II filmography; and Mike tells a long Little League umpiring story about a blown "out of the base path" call and a successful hidden-ball trick, which prompts Sonny to relive a childhood hidden-ball-trick controversy of his own. There's also a box-office detour on Sinners's historically small second-weekend drop and the surprisingly huge 20th-anniversary re-release numbers for Revenge of the Sith, plus speculation about whether Disney will ever re-release the original, un-CGI'd 1977 Star Wars cut once George Lucas dies. The episode closes with a bonus tangent, after the formal sign-off, about Anne Hathaway's 2005 dud Havoc (not the one under review) and a mangled recollection of its infamous train-pulling scene.
From the show notes
Not the Anne Hathaway one.
Full transcript
Mike00:00:00My son is not a killer. This kid is public enemy number one.
Guest00:00:05Your son just started a gang war. They just want to shoot him dead. That's the end of the story.
Vic00:00:08I make one phone call. You go down for life. Get him back.
Mike00:00:24Welcome to the Sub-Beacon podcast. I am your co-host Mike Warren. Joining me as always are my two co-hosts who were involved somehow in a very complex, some might say indecipherable corruption plot involving the child. I don't know. Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at Sub-Beacon.com. You can get new episodes every Friday morning. You've got to be a patron. So tell your friends and family if they want to listen to this show and they should go sign up at Sub-Beacon.com. Join the conversation in the comments there. It's Sub-Beacon.com. Today, we are going to be talking about Havoc. But first, let's check in to see what is going on. JVL, what is happening with
JVL00:01:12you? I went to Cooperstown last weekend and it was everything I dreamed it could be. I really I cannot recommend it highly enough. The boys and I have pledged that we are going to go back there twice a year every year.
Mike00:01:28So I have you guys done it? It's on my list, but I've never I've never done it. I really want to it's really so really great. What are the highlights like give give us like, like, what's the one thing that it's like, that that sold it for you? I mean, everything it here's it is a
JVL00:01:49perfect museum, in that it is big enough to have enough to hold your attention for an entire day. And for you to miss a few things, like you can't do the whole museum in an entire day. But you could get 90% of it. And if you just wanted to come over two days and do like half a day, half a day, you could do that. But but it's not so big that it's unmanageable. So you like that, you know, museum sizes, they tend to be either too big or too small, like, you know, mama, great, what do you do? Pick pick a wing, and you go to that wing for 12 hours and maybe see half of what's there. It's, and it's, it's ever changing. And the earnestness of it is really something. Like it is, it's a, it's a place for believers, as earnest as a church.
Mike00:02:46I would say it's like a cathedral.
JVL00:02:47That's not what I want to talk about. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I will, if you guys have questions about it, I'm happy to field it. What I wanted to talk about was a new purchase I made. I, after 50, I've just bought my second grill. My first grill, which was a char broil from Home Depot, lasted me 15 years, which I think is a pretty good lifespan for a grill. Yeah. Propane grill? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I had to replace it. Finally, it broke to the point where I could not fix it. And even the replacement parts were no longer being made. So I, uh, I settled upon a four burner Weber spirit. And let me tell you why I settled upon the Weber spirit. Because the fine people at ACE, ACE is the place with the helpful hardware face. Those fine people assembled it for me for free and dropped it off at my house. And I remember losing an entire fucking afternoon to building that charbroil. And so I got back, no kidding, eight hours of my life. ACE, ACE, the helpful hardware place gave me eight hours of my life back for the same price that the thing is being sold at Home Depot and Lowe's at a big box at an impersonal big box store. My local hardware store said sir, sir, they said with tears in their eyes, we will give you that grill. We'll bring it to your home and we'll build it for you so you don't have to spend a single minute on
Sonny00:04:37it. You just go right to cooking your hot dogs and your burgers. I felt like I was the
JVL00:04:42luckiest man in the world. The the only ACE is the best. I am so into the cult of ACE.
Mike00:04:50I got to tell you. But the only thing that doesn't make sense is that they were selling the grill for cheaper than at Home Depot. Right. I mean, same price. Oh, it's the same. Okay. Same price. But they just got themselves a loyal customer. Do they? I'm loyal to ACE
JVL00:05:07anyway. I mean, I buy if I can buy it from ACE, I will and I will pay more. Sure. Did
Sonny00:05:13do they not assemble it at Lowe's and Home Depot? I haven't bought a grill in a long time, so I don't I don't know really what the prices on these things look like. You
JVL00:05:20can pay for assembly, but it's not cheap. Hmm. Is that definitely?
Sonny00:05:25I may not be getting someone who knows what they're doing. I definitely did not assemble my last grill, but I also don't remember spending a great deal. Maybe it was included
JVL00:05:35in delivery or something. I don't know. It was my charbroil was I mean, it's a large grill. I assume the bigger they are, the more pieces like it was just it was a pain in the
Sonny00:05:44ass. And this it's just it's done. How how often do you grill? A fair amount. Like I mean, like weekly, like every week. Oh, a couple of times a week.
JVL00:05:54Once we hit real interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you grilled on it yet? No. And I mean, the reason we will often grill is because there are, as I have stated previously on this show, there are there's only one food that all four of my children can be guaranteed to eat on the same day, which at the same time, Chick-fil-A chicken nuggets. Right. Everything else at best, you can get three of them to eat it. I mean, pizza. Nope. Can't do it. Macaroni and cheese. Nope. Can't do it. Hot dogs. Hamburgers. Nope. Can't do it. And what the grill allows is for zero cleanup, basically. And you can do hot dogs for one people, set of people, chicken for another set of you. Just throw it on there and lets you do the multiple meals for again, is the key. Zero cleanup.
Mike00:06:48So that's why we grill a lot. That's great. Now, we we the thing that I that that fits that bill for my family are smash burgers, which my picky middle child is the like, it's the it's not only something that he will eat. He's declared it is his favorite food and everybody else is just like the chain, the chain store smash burger. No, no, no. Like like homemade smash burgers. Mike, Mike, can I I want to stop you here
Sonny00:07:18for a second. Could you define what a smash burger is? Because I went I took the my youngest camping this weekend and like the dinner, you know, the big camp dinner for all the kids there was smash burgers, which I was like, OK, I mean, they're just hamburgers,
Mike00:07:34right? But you smush them down. Correct. I mean, so so the way the way that I make them is I set up my my griddle, which sits on my grill. Right. It's a griddle grill,
Sonny00:07:49not like a like, you know, grill.
JVL00:07:52Line grill. Is there a reason you don't do it on the on the grates?
Mike00:07:59Yes, I'm about to explain. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. Please. So you you set up the griddle and rather than forming patties, you form balls of ground beef and then you can take I mean, I have a press that I can use a heavy press and you put I put like wax paper over it and you smash it until it's exceedingly thin. Like sometimes I've made burgers that are so thin that there's like a little hole in the ground beef in the middle of it because it's been smashed that thin. And then it cooks very rapidly. It gets very, very crispy. And that's kind of it. It's not like rocket science or anything. Right. But the key, the reason you don't do it on the grill grates is because you want it to cook in its own fat. Oh, OK. And frankly, that's like it's kind of how you should almost always do beef, whether it's ground beef or steaks. Like actually state beef should not be cooked over grill grates where you lose the flat fat, which is the flavor. It should be cooked in its own fat. So either in a skillet or on a griddle, something where it can be sort of where that fat isn't lost.
Sonny00:09:17Totally. And this is this has always been my theory of the reason McDonald's works and remains beloved is because they I mean, it's it's different because it's you got the frozen patties, you put them on whatever, but like they cook it on a griddle like with two griddles. It's like a griddle on the bottom and a griddle on top. And it like it keeps it down there, keeps everything right there. And it's delicious. Even if the meat is not even if the meat is a lower quality, even if it you know, it's still very good.
JVL00:09:46So smash, this does not mean that you are taking things like the cheese and the bits of bacon, and smashing it in so that it's baked inside the
Mike00:09:59burger. It is not the Cold Stone Creamery of because my understanding was that that that
JVL00:10:05smash burgers were Cold Stone Creamery hamburgers. That may be like what the what the what the chain
Mike00:10:13restaurant does. I don't know. I've never been to a smash burger chain.
JVL00:10:16Oh, I'd like some avocado and some onion and some bacon. And some cheddar cheese, please.
Sonny00:10:23It's like a Mongolian barbecue.
JVL00:10:24Yes, they put all those things in with your meat, and they reach in with their hands they and then they put it on the griddle and smash it down.
Mike00:10:34Now, this is more this is more akin to a Texas burger, frankly, like, like, what is sort of recreated at Whataburger. And the variation on this is the Oklahoma burger, which is a smash burger, but you smash yellow mustard and onions like on top of it. That's that's how they do it in Oklahoma. So but no, it's it crisps it up. It's it has a very kind of it's like a different. It's a different experience than like you're just a grilled burger or a griddled burger that is better try. Yeah, yeah. So this this gets my question,
Sonny00:11:14though. So it's just it's simply about the cooking technique. It's it's just about the
Mike00:11:19the flattening of the thing. It's that's you're getting that Maillard reaction on the maximum amount of surface. So you get that crispiness. So, yeah, well, that's all I got excited about
JVL00:11:32my Weber spirit. Do you have some people out there have thoughts about the Weber spirit? So long as they're positive, tell me. Please don't tell me that I've just bought a terrible girl because I'm stuck with this thing for hopefully 15 years for another 15 years. I will be approaching 70 the next time.
Sonny00:11:49I have to buy a grill. Yeah, no, I it's funny. We I've we must have bought our grill when we moved to the the townhouse in Alexandria. And that was probably about 10 years ago, 10, 11 years ago. But I also don't. Yeah, we brought it to Texas. We shipped it. I got to be honest, though. I don't use my grill as much anymore because I've like I've transferred so thoroughly to. To cast iron skillets and like broiling in the oven that I and then like slow cooker meals when I when we're, you know, during the week that I almost I almost never use. I used to use I used to use my grill like three or four times a week like you guys. I would I would do I would grill salmon and chicken and and hot dogs and sausages and everything. And now I almost never use it anymore, which I don't know. Like I don't I feel bad. I like I wish I used it more. Honestly, it's almost wasted space out there.
JVL00:12:53Do you have a Weber Genesis? No, we just I looked at that Genesis.
Sonny00:12:58I just have a I have a I have a charbroil broil as well. It's like a charbroil for birdwood. I have the side thing, you know, that you put the you can put the skillet side
JVL00:13:07burner. Yeah, I had a side burner. And in 15 years, I used it precisely zero times.
Sonny00:13:13That's interesting. Well, because you because you want no cleaning. Right. That's like a thing you you would have to clean.
JVL00:13:19I guess I would. Right. Yeah. Don't make me clean anything.
Mike00:13:24How are you? God forbid. Sonny, what's going on with you?
Sonny00:13:28Not a whole lot. I did. I did a fun thing on Wednesday that was like a combo fun slash work thing because I'm going to write about it for my newsletter this week. So I don't want to spoil too much. But I went to go see there. There there is a tour, a dogma twenty fifth anniversary tour, the Kevin Smith film and Kevin Smith. Himself is going on tour with the film and he's doing his Q and A's after the the the event. And it was an enormously fun. I like it's hard for me to talk about Kevin Smith in a rational way because he's a very important filmmaker to early like film lover Sonny Bunch. People like us, people our age. Like like just objectively that that clerk small rats chasing Amy dogma. Jay and Silent Bob strike back clerks to run. You know, that's a solid like 12 years or whatever. The latest of which was about 20 years ago. And it's just very, very formative in a in a bunch of a bunch of different ways. But the thing about Kevin Smith is that he is like he is a great natural raconteur. He just like that dude can talk. That dude can talk and talk. He does not shut up. And so like it was. It was fun to go to. It was fun to go to the screening because, you know, it's a good raucous crowd. Everybody's very into it and cheering and clapping and laughing at all the right places and stuff. But then also like he comes out and he does he does 80 minutes or so of Q&A's and like does not he there? He does not have like a an interlocutor with him. He just goes up to the front of the theater with his mice tapping his like pink, pink, pink. Hey, everybody, who's got a question? Hand shoot it up. And he just like starts calling on people. But the funny thing is, I mean, like, again, he's like just he's just called. But the funny thing is, again, 80 minutes. He took maybe 10 questions, maybe nine questions, like in terms of real questions. Like there were there's somebody was like, can I get that poster for the movie? And he's like, yeah, you can go to the website and get it. We don't really have it here. And she's like, oh, I just wanted to know if you have it here. He's like, shut up. I'm telling you where you can get it anyway. So but it was it was it was a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. And again, like I have complicated feelings about Kevin Smith because I do think he has he has regressed badly as a filmmaker since Dogma 2 or not Dogma 2 since Clerks 2. Like the stuff he makes now is not very good. But I find I find his whole business model fascinating because what he does is he makes movies. He makes he makes these cheap movies and then he takes them on the road and does the. Roadshow thing and he goes to theaters like he goes to like this was at an AMC. So it's a relatively it's it's it's not like the Texas theater that has like an 800 seat auditorium, right? It's it's like a three. There's probably three hundred two hundred fifty to three hundred seats in this place. But, you know, he goes and it's 50 bucks a ticket and like he sells the thing out and that's, you know, 15 grand or whatever. And he does that. He does that. You know, he takes it around the around the country. On tour, making money that way. And then he puts it out on, you know, home video. He puts it out on VOD, VHS, whatever. And then it goes to Amazon. But like he is he has created a like self-sustaining, fully independent production and distribution vehicle for his films. And granted, they're all aimed at like the same. Three hundred thousand people in. The country. But it's enough. It's enough. It's enough to make it work. It's it's it's a really like I for all of my for all of my quibbles with him as a filmmaker and kind of the the unrealized promise of a lot of that. He is one of the smartest film businessmen that I have ever seen in terms of again, just in terms of being able to do what he wants
JVL00:17:47to do. Yeah. No, he was doing. The creator economy, but on film. And I say I early on, I'm curious about what you guys thought. But early on, like after Clerks and then Mallrats, I had thought, huh, this guy could be like a JV version of Quentin Tarantino. Like or, you know, or Richard Linklater. And he just seemed to. Be much more interesting. He's doing a lot of screenwriting on the side and script doctoring. He seemed more interested in just getting high and running a comic book shop. And I think that that's kind of awesome.
Sonny00:18:32Yeah. Well, it's interesting, right? Because he is part of that whole Miramax scene. Right. So he's in there with Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino. But like he was never part of that group. Like, you know, he wasn't cool enough.
JVL00:18:48He was.
Sonny00:18:49He wasn't. He wasn't. But also he just like wasn't. He's not a visually talented filmmaker is the like. No, he just he just isn't. And like, I don't I don't think he would dispute that. I don't think that's a Kevin Smith is very open to him is. It's very funny. He's like if you listen. And again, I like growing up, I listened to all the commentary tracks on the movies. I own still a copy of An Evening with Kevin Smith, which is just the the like documentary movie. I don't know what you would call lecture film. It's not even a concert film, right? It's like him just talking to people. It's him doing what he was doing last night. Right. Which is just like taking questions from people and talking and talking about his career and stuff. But like there's this there's a very funny there's a very funny moment in Mall Rats where there's what is the most basic shot in filmmaking history? It's just a it's just a simple tracking shot down the hallway of a mall. And he's like, look at this. This
JVL00:19:47is my first tracking shot. We put.
Sonny00:19:49We put down rail. We put down rail and we had a camera on it. We were moving around and it's just like it's he's not he's not he's not Tarantino. He doesn't he doesn't think visually. He's certainly not Robert Rodriguez or even Richard Linklater. But the no, it's again there. He was he's very comfortable doing a very specific thing. And he has a very he is a child grown old. He has an arrested development. And, you know, that's good and bad. That's good and bad. But watching Dogma last night again, I like I've seen this movie a bunch of times. I saw it in theaters when it was out in theaters originally 25 years ago. And the thing I love. What's that? Yeah, it holds up fine. I mean, it's it's very clearly made by it's very clearly made by a guy who was like. Who or at least at the time was like religious, but also like really kind of rebelling against it. Against all of that. It's like, what if Jesus was black? What if God is a woman? Oh, did you think about that? And like and it's kind of oppositional. There's this oppositional defiance disorder to a lot of a lot of what what's going on in that movie. But the other thing that really jumps out watching it on rewatch is that like. It is like all of his movies where they're the scripts have certain strengths and they're funny in certain ways, also very juvenile, but they're at their best. When the actors are like actually very good. So like Alan Rickman, you know, Alan Rickman has three scenes in the movie and they're the best scenes in the movie. And and it's it may be my favorite Matt Damon, Ben Affleck movie, like the two of them together. I mean, you know, like it's really this Goodwill hunting and air kind of are the three options. And I enjoyed this one the most just because it's so it's like the the the the idea of them as like. Avenging angels who also are like, you know, like a big rose, kind of a couple kind of bros. It's very funny. They're very funny in this movie. And yeah, I don't know. It was just it was just a great time. It was it was a it was it was very amusing. And it really and like, again, as as annoyed as I am by basically everything he has made since Clerks 2, it's still a lot of fun. To revisit these things and watch them with people who really like it and just to listen
JVL00:22:22to him talk because he's the world's a better place with him in it. Totally. Totally. Michael,
Mike00:22:29how are you, buddy? Fine. I just have a quick story about how, you know, about how I believe in in the Jerry Seinfeld way that everything kind of evens out, you know, the things kind of even out. And here's a here's a great story about that. Just from last night's little triple a little. Game. So again, we've got like maybe 13 year olds as as as umpires in these games. And anybody with lots of experience is umpiring the majors or the juniors, not the triple a and certainly not double a. And we had two umpires, which for a weeknight game is pretty impressive. Right. Got a home plate umpire and an umpire in the infield. And there was a a moment where, OK, so runner on first guy up gets a base hit right up to the second baseman. So our second baseman scoops it up and goes to tag the runner running from first to second base. And the runner just like I mean, it's like as if they're playing tag, like he just runs way out of the base path. And so our side, all of our coaches were going right out of the base path. Like he was like he was like five feet out of the base path. And the umpires did not call it. And our coach looked fine to me. Right. I saw nothing, sir. They don't pay me enough to do this. But like our coach went out and our coach is not a yeller. He's not like a confrontational. But, you know, we sort of went out and pointed this out to them. And this was a close game, too. So like this was like things were on the line. Here. And then later on in the inning. And I will say at the end of the day, neither of the umpires saw it. Right. So like nobody saw it. And so they couldn't really make the call. But it was also obvious everybody's everybody else saw what happened. So in the
Sonny00:24:38same inning. How did the umps not see it? Because they're 13 years old and they were
Mike00:24:44there was a lot of other activity going on and they just they just missed it. I don't know. OK, I don't know what more you want. Like you get what I want. Competence. I want baseline competence. Well, you're not going to get it in Little League umpiring. So same inning, same, you know, so so I can't remember. Maybe there was another batter in between or maybe it was the next batter. I can't remember a I was keeping score on Game Changer JVL. So I should be. Yeah. But so we have a situation. We have a situation where the the there's a runner on third and a runner on second and the runner on third steals home on a past ball and scores the runner on second gets the third. The catch goes to third like the catcher gets the ball, throws it to third to try to get the out. Not what our coaches were telling him. Just tell him to eat it, eat it, get it back to the pitcher, throws it. We have our best player basically on third base, catches the ball. The kid is safe and then throws the ball back to the pitcher. Or does he hit the ball? The ball trick didn't work trick. And he tagged the kid out because the kid came off the bag. And I'm pretty sure the umpires did not see it, but everybody went, oh, oh, hit ball trick. And then the home plate umpire went, boom, called a nice. So it was like, all right, like it all worked out. Like we got the out that we needed. And, um, it really should've been two outs, but, um, it was a nice little, the, the universe balanced itself in that.
JVL00:26:26So flash sent me this week, a play video of a play from the Mets, Todd Frazier in 2018. I don't know if you guys saw this where there was a foul ball that he Frazier's running to get, and it's like into the stands. He falls over the fence, trying to get the ball. Okay. The ball goes into his glove. It comes out, but there is a practice ball, like a white practice ball right there on the shelf, which he grabs with the other hand as he's falling. And he pops up, shows the practice ball to the hump. The ump calls him out. Frazier gets in and then immediately tosses it to the crowd. So the ump can't see that that's not the regulation game ball.
Mike00:27:13And that might've been the greatest hidden ball trick ever done in a Major League Baseball. So much to the hidden ball trick as like cheating.
Sonny00:27:21That's just cheating. That's just cheating. You very much have triggered me right now, Mike. You have called up a repressed baseball memory.
JVL00:27:31Did you get caught with the hidden ball trick as a young fella?
Sonny00:27:34No. So it was, I don't know, eighth or ninth grade rec league baseball, but it was the all-star team. I was on the all-star team. So I was an exceptionally good baseball player. Baseball and tennis, they go together. And we were getting blown out, but we weren't winning, certainly. It was not a great game for us, but there was this kid who had been just running, running, running, running. And I was the second baseman, and so I was tired of this. And he was not respecting our pitcher's ability to pick him up. He was taking these big leads. So I called timeout. There was a hit or something, and I'm walking the ball back up to the pitcher, and I'm like, I'm going to hold on to this just for a second. Just go back to the mound. And he does this. He goes to the mound, and he's kind of standing around the mound. Because you know, you can't be on the rubber without the ball. That's the rule. You can't be on the rubber without the ball. So he's kind of like, he's getting the rosin bag, whatever. And I just will mosey on back to second base and I've got the ball in my glove. And this kid, of course, like takes his five steps off the bag. And I just walk up behind and go boop. And everybody sees it. Refs see it. Everybody sees it. And they called a balk. They called a balk. They said, what? Your pitcher is on the rubber. And he's standing there clearly like, I mean, like this. I'm making 12 inches, 18 inches with my hand signed for the guys. He is not on the rubber at all. And the umpire said, the rubber area includes the whole divot in front of the rubber because, you know, there's like a little indentation there. And I almost got kicked out of the game because I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Blue? This is not the right. He's not on the rubber. This. How is this a book? My coach had to be like, Sonny, shut up. But it was I was so I was so I had pulled it. We did it perfectly. We did it perfectly and got totally screwed.
JVL00:29:49Fisk, I had to pull you off of the ump.
Sonny00:29:51I was I was I was livid. I was livid. So it was a memory. Jeez. That was that's my that's my hidden ball story.
Mike00:30:01All right. Well, we could say the universe balanced out for you eventually, Sonny, you know, possibly. Why not? Let's just say why don't we move on regardless of whether things are bouncing out to see how things are bouncing out in the box office. This week, once again, Sinner's number one at the box office. But I guess, Sonny, we should we don't really want to need to talk about that. We can talk about that a little bit. But the the incredible story in the box office is the 20th anniversary re-release of Star Wars Episode three, Revenge of the Sith, which we talked about on last week's show. Impressive. Almost twenty six million dollars at the box office. That's that's a lot, right?
Sonny00:30:47Yeah. Well, I mean, we should. We should mention that Sinner's dropped just five percent in its second weekend, which is unheard of. That's like that's a number that does not happen if you're not in a holiday weekend. That is like Passion of the Christ.
JVL00:31:04Passion of the Christ and Titanic did numbers like that. They were like five and eleven percent. That's amazing.
Sonny00:31:09Yeah. You don't you don't see you don't see numbers like this ever. Like even that, like I think Twisters was in the single digits its first weekend. The second weekend without being in a holiday. But like usually if you see if you see a drop like that, it's because something came out like the weekend before Christmas. And then the Christmas weekend was, you know, was was very strong.
Mike00:31:32There's some extenuating circumstance.
Sonny00:31:34Yeah. And and this is this is this is just this is just a phenomenal word of mouth hit. There's like there's it's it is. We'll see what happens when we'll see what happens when the when the. The new Marvel when it loses the IMAX screens as it's going to do this weekend. But I it's funny, I just got an email from the the flax at Warner Brothers who they sent out. They sent out a press release saying that the the that Sinners is going to be returning to the IMAX 70 millimeter screens on which it was playing from May 15th to Wednesday, May 21st. I can't remember the last time I've seen something get a re-release like that. And like, again, this is like nine theaters in the country. It's not it's not all the IMAX screens. It's just the it's very specifically the the IMAX theaters that are equipped to play the 70 millimeter 15 perf film film stock. But the but that you again, you just don't really see things like that happen very often. So it's an enormous hit. But yeah, I like Revenge of the Sith doing twenty five and a half million dollars 20 years after the fact is an enormous. Number and like, you know, it's it's one of these things where this Revenge of the Sith, along with Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, really is Star Wars for an entire generation of like younger millennials, older Gen Z.
JVL00:33:05So when I went to the theater for this, it was a very, very crowded showing in what shocked me because I did not know that people like this existed. There were. I would say everybody there was there because they were jazzed and they legit loved the movie.
Sonny00:33:25Yes.
JVL00:33:25And I just it was like if you if we went to a re-release of Empire Strikes Back or something. Right. And I just thought there are what? Yeah. There are people who like this. Love it. There are people for whom this is, as Sonny said, this is Star Wars. And for them, this is amazing.
Sonny00:33:48Yep.
JVL00:33:49Totally. How sad.
Mike00:33:50It's a big country. A lot of different people.
Sonny00:33:53You guys are overly harsh on Revenge of the Sith. It's a fine movie. It's big, operatic, silly, exciting, full of emotion, full of emotions.
Mike00:34:03Full of something.
Sonny00:34:05So I don't know. But it's an enormous. It's funny. I was I was talking with a friend. I really wonder what sort of business Disney could do if it re-released the original version of Star Wars, the like de-specialized version of Star Wars, like the version that was in the the the VHS THX improved box set that came out like 93 or whatever. So like before they added all the CG shit to the foreground of the the Mos Eisley scenes.
Mike00:34:37And it came with Leonard Moulton interviews with with George Lucas at the beginning of
Sonny00:34:41it. But like including including the fixes like the thing is, if you go and watch the actual theatrical. 1977 print of Star Wars, it's got all those like kind of boxy like shading things with the X-Wings and stuff.
JVL00:34:56It just looks, you know, I wonder if the terms of sale allow them to do that.
Sonny00:35:03So this I asked a friend who would be in a position to know this. He is thinking he doesn't he didn't know for sure. He he is pretty sure, though, that there is not a specific. There is no prohibition on it, but there is a handshake deal between Lucas and Disney.
JVL00:35:24So we have to wait for George to die.
Sonny00:35:26So we we will not see this until George is dead. Once George is dead, it'll it'll it'll come out.
JVL00:35:31I'm sure it's an opportunity to make money, sell another version of it.
Sonny00:35:34I mean, what this and here's the here's the thing is that George Lucas likes money like George. George Lucas likes money a lot.
JVL00:35:42He likes controlling his fans more.
Sonny00:35:46Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
Mike00:35:50They're they're they're they're in contention. Those two impulses for George Lucas.
Sonny00:35:54Those are two. Those are those are two. Those are two things that are very much at loggerhead sometimes making money versus controlling the fans. No, but I think I'm grumpy. My sense. And again, I don't know. I don't have any. I don't have I haven't looked at the contract. My sense is that the reason they don't do that is because George Lucas has asked them not to do it and they still need George Lucas to do Star. Wars things for them, but not that there is some sort of contractual prohibition against doing it is my understanding.
Mike00:36:30Imagine imagine the discourse when they release when George Lucas dies in five years, when they release in like seven years, the the one where Han shoots first in in in the first Star Wars movie like that. That that will be right, because that's that's nothing. You can't get that version on Disney Plus, correct?
Sonny00:36:53You cannot legally acquire that version. No, it is. It is fairly easily available on the black market. And, you know, you know how I feel about piracy, guys. You know how I feel about piracy. But I I do. You're just informing us. I do occasionally continue like I wrestle inside me. There are two forces wrestling against the because I own it on I own it on multiple formats. I wouldn't be stealing really to get the the despecialized 4K. Would I write that?
Mike00:37:26No, no question. Have you ever seen wasn't it? Was it was it Topher Grace who like to put it together? Yeah. Have you ever seen that? Right. It's like never. It's only been seen by a select number of people.
Sonny00:37:39I've not. I've not seen that. I don't know. I feel like that's another thing that was available on on bootlegs for a while, but maybe not. Maybe I'm just thinking of.
Mike00:37:50I thought that was it was there was like a screening he held of it one time.
JVL00:37:54So he showed it one time to his friends. They rented out a theater. I am certain that after that, some nerds went and created their own version of what they assumed he must have done and that that could have been torrented. But it would I would doubt that it would be his actual cut.
Mike00:38:12Yeah. So it would be if I if I were to find it, it would be like when I used to download music and it would have. Like a gazillion things in the name of, you know, it would have like, you know, all of the the song name, but it would be like misspelled or with like uppercase and lowercase, uppercase, lowercase letters. And then it would end up being like a really bad cover of that song. This is basically what what I would basically not the actual. All right. Any other box office thoughts, guys?
JVL00:38:43Not for me.
Mike00:38:44Let's move on then to talk about Havoc. Not the.
JVL00:38:48Anne Hathaway Havoc. Bijou Phillips is so hot. She's so dirty.
Mike00:38:53Sonny, give us a review of Netflix's Havoc.
Sonny00:38:57See, you ruined my bit because I was just going to read the Wikipedia by Wikipedia plot summary of the 2005 film Havoc here.
Mike00:39:04I was going to, you know, let me back up.
Sonny00:39:07Havoc starring Anne Hathaway and Bijou Phillips directed by or in a screenplay by Stephen Gagin of Traffic fame. That was written by the guy who made who wrote. Traffic. He was. Anyway, but I guess I can't do that now. Thanks, Mike. Ruin in my.
JVL00:39:26See, my movie was only seven minutes long.
Sonny00:39:29What's that?
JVL00:39:29Yeah. My understanding was that that movie was a short. It was a film short, not a theatrical.
Mike00:39:34Got really interested, really interested, really interested. They're not interested.
JVL00:39:37Took a nap.
Sonny00:39:39It's the the plot summary on Wikipedia for this movie is incredibly long. It's like it's like 12 paragraphs. I wouldn't have been able to read it anyway. All right. So Havoc. The twenty twenty five film starring Tom Hardy directed by Gareth Gareth. Wait, is it Gareth Evans or Gareth Edwards? Hold on. I got to actually look.
Mike00:40:00No, it's Gareth Evans because Gareth Edwards is the Evans.
Sonny00:40:03Gareth Evans. Gareth Evans. Right. Because Gareth Edwards is the Star Wars Star Wars guy. Gareth Evans directs. He is the guy who made the raid and the raid to redemption, the kind of big martial arts. Indonesian martial arts movies. Havoc. Mike alluded to this at the beginning of the show. The plot of this thing is I wouldn't describe it as indecipherable. It's not it's not it wasn't hard to follow precisely. It's just that I didn't care about any of it. I didn't I didn't actually care about anything that was happening in this movie. So Tom Hardy plays. He's a cop who has run afoul of his former partners and there are they are ripping off the Asian mob bosses.
JVL00:40:58He's a dirty cop with a heart of gold.
Sonny00:41:00He's a dirty cop with a heart of gold, who is how most dirty cops are, who is my understanding is sure, of course, who is under the thumb of a candidate for mayor who was also a real estate developer played by Forrest Whitaker and Forrest Whitaker's son is involved with these. Robberies kind of tangentially I I'm not going to I'm not going to try to explain the plot because frankly, I don't I was kind of falling asleep during the plot portion of this movie. The plot portion of this movie is not what's interesting about it. What's interesting is that it is directed again by Gareth Evans, who is the the the guy who did the raid and the action is I could only describe it as frenetic. It is frenetic. A lot of shooting shaky cams. A lot of. A lot of both practical squib blood explosions and CGI edition blood explosions. There's there's a lot of blood in this movie. Nobody nobody ever really reloads a gun. They're just pulling the trigger all the time. They're just shooting and shooting and shooting with the occasional hand to hand fight. And this is this is my I like the further I've gotten from this film, the more annoyed I am with it. When I when I was done watching, I was like, yeah, that was fine, I guess. And now I now I actually kind of actively. Dislike it because the problem with Havoc. Havoc has a lot of problems, one of them being, again, the like overly convoluted nature of the plot. The the the second of them being that Tom Hardy speaks every I could not understand a thing Tom Hardy was saying. I don't know about you guys. I like could not make out his dialogue. I couldn't tell if there was a there was a sound mix issue on my end or what. But I was having a great deal of trouble understanding what he was saying. Because he was doing fine. He was. I for me, he was very mumbly. It was very mumbly, Joe. But the big problem for me is that Gareth Evans's style of action in in the raid films in particular is is mostly hand to hand. There's there's there are guns and there's gunplay. But what's interesting about it is like it's a very kinetic hand to hand martial combat style of action. And this movie is all about guns. It's all gun. Play. It's it's I mean, there are there are a couple of hand to hand fights and sometimes they get in to close contact with the close quarters with the guns. But the but but this is all guns and shootings and, you know, blood splattering. But and I did not I just it didn't work for me. I wasn't I again, I was just kind of bored by it. I was kind of bored by the relentless unending action in a way that is unusual for me. Usually I like this sort of thing. It's like. Oh, big fun shootout. This is great. I didn't I didn't care for the camera work. I didn't like I didn't I disliked how he shot the car chases kind of zooming in. And, you know, like I don't know if he was using a drone or if that was CGI or what, but like the kind of driving close to the vehicles and going zooming down the roads. I didn't like any of the performances in this movie, with the exception maybe of Timothy Oliphant, who I thought was very. He was trying who was always charmingly evil. I like it when he plays bad. Timothy Oliphant's a good bad guy. I don't know. I really nothing about this movie worked for me. I I'm I'm shocked. I'm again coming out when I when I stopped watching. I was like, oh, that was fine. I guess two days later, I'm like, that was not good. That was not good. And I'm annoyed by it. But I don't know. How would you guys make of it?
Mike00:44:44JVL, what did you think?
JVL00:44:45Yeah, I was sort of the opposite. I. So the action stuff. Exactly right. It's just too much. The gunplay and not like imaginative in the way that like the John Wick movies are imaginative. Right. I this part I liked weirdly was the indecipherable plot. Like I and I thought the acting was always intriguing. Timothy Oliphant is intriguing. Forrest Whitaker is playing Saul Guerrera. And Tom Hardy is doing. Eddie Brock like his his his crooked cop with a heart of gold is Eddie Brock and he and his partner May Lee are she's sort of a charming presence on screen and the two of them are kind of fun together and like he's not a bad guy. I mean, he's a crooked cop. He's not a bad cop. He's a pretty good, pretty good investigator. And I I could have just spent more time with indecipherable plot. Less time with. I mean, the problem is that like 80 percent of the movie is shooting and that's the stuff that I was kind of tired of. And I just thought, I don't know, give me time with these other characters and actors who are. Interesting ish. It's a mess. I mean, it's an absolute mess. But on the other hand, it's like the most interesting Netflix made for Netflix movie that I've seen in a long time, I think maybe certainly the most interesting Netflix action movie. I've seen in a while. We've seen some good documentaries.
Sonny00:46:21Yeah. Yeah.
JVL00:46:22Yeah.
Sonny00:46:23It's no electric state. That's for sure.
JVL00:46:25It's no electric state. It's no red notice. Right. It's not a red notice. It's it's got more going on than the typical big budget. I don't know. You guys didn't like Tom Hardy.
Mike00:46:35So. No, I didn't like I didn't like any of it. I was even more bored than Sonny was. I feel like I was so I could not. So I went downstairs to our basement to watch this and I came back up and either that evening or the next morning, my wife said, oh, well, at least at least the movie didn't take that long. And I was like, what are you talking about? That was the one down there for nine hours. It felt like forever. She's like, no, you were down there for like an hour and a half. I was like, I couldn't believe it because it just dragged on and on for me. I want to read you what I texted. So I was texting my brother. We're just texting stuff. And I mentioned that we were watching this movie and he was like, he's the kind of person who like would turn on a Netflix action movie if he heard something good about it. And he said, is it that bad? And I said, I said, there's a gazillion things going on. And I want to see if my summation of the plot is close enough to what's actually happening. Hardy's a crooked cop who's also trying to stop this other group of crooked cops, who are working with his old partner who was in the ICU the whole movie from following this truck involved in a drug heist involving the son of the corrupt mayor who Hardy has some past business with and who's accused of killing the young leader of the Chinese mafia whose mother comes from China to find and kill the mayor's son at retribution. And Hardy has to like figure it out. That's that's the plot, right? More or less.
Sonny00:48:11More or less.
Mike00:48:12Close. It's confusing as I could not figure out who was doing what until the very end. When it was like, spoiler alert, the the guy who the older guy who is her brother and was the young Chinese kid's uncle was behind it or something.
JVL00:48:30He's behind it because he'd been passed over for the past. Right.
Mike00:48:34Just I could not figure out the the thing that I got stuck on at the beginning was what was the deal with the partner who was in the ICU Hernandez or Gonzalez or whatever it was. And Cortez Cortez. That's what it was. And like what? So he witnessed the thing that the flashback where he witnessed. I just didn't understand what the big deal was and why Hardy and Oliphant were on the opposite sides of things. It made no sense to me, except they didn't like each other. And then Hardy finds out. It doesn't matter. So decipherable.
Sonny00:49:12Timmy Timothy Oliphant kills the undercover cop, which Tom Hardy doesn't want him to do in that flashback.
Mike00:49:21That's that guy was an undercover cop. See, I missed that.
Sonny00:49:24Well, or or like an undercover source or so he had wire. I thought it was an informant. OK, OK. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was a cop. Right. JBL. Was he a cop or just an informant?
JVL00:49:34I thought he was Chinese.
Sonny00:49:35OK.
JVL00:49:38Didn't he work for the Triad? No, but he wasn't Chinese. He was.
Mike00:49:42OK, OK. It's all very hard to parse. OK, so I couldn't get over that. I also couldn't get over. So I looked this up after work because I was so confused. I was like, so where is this? Like, I've got enough movies. Well, I've watched enough movies to like, no, like I'm talking about the where they actually filmed the thing because because I know what New York looks like. I know what L.A. looks like. I know what Chicago looks like. I know what Atlanta looks like.
JVL00:50:06I assume that's a second tier city in Canada. No, no.
Mike00:50:10Wales. So it was filmed in Wales, which explains why it looks so weird. Like, I couldn't. I couldn't get over that. It doesn't look like a real place and it doesn't even look like a fake Canadian place trying to look like a real place.
Sonny00:50:25It's like, does it doesn't look like a real place? Looks like Wales. Nobody. Exactly. Nobody's ever been there.
Mike00:50:32Cardiff. That can't be a real place. No, it's like it doesn't look like a real movie. It doesn't look like a real American city. And so that through because like, where is that? Like what? It took me out of the movie that and the confusing plot. And I was just bored by the whole thing. And I just hated it. And the CGI was bad. I just hated it. Didn't like it. Didn't like it.
JVL00:51:00I have a question about the hook because I was interested to hear you say something that they were using squibs because I one of the questions I had jotted down was, did they use a bazillion squibs or is this fake blood?
Sonny00:51:12I think it's both. Yes. I'm pretty sure it's both.
JVL00:51:15So you lose the fake blood then. You lose the CGI blood because it makes it look, I don't want to say fake, but it's too much.
Sonny00:51:27I might be wrong. I might be wrong in my assumption that they used. There's definitely some CGI blood explosions. Totally. 100%. I'm pretty sure there are also actual squib blood packs going off, particularly in some of the slow-mo. The shot where they're gunning down the Chinese mob, they break into the place. I'm pretty sure those were actual squibs, I think. Again, it can be hard to tell. I do think I'm, I wasn't on set, I don't know, but I'm like 90% sure that they had some squibs and then they augmented those with CGI blood, I think.
JVL00:52:11That's what it looked like to me and I kept thinking, just turn that dial down. We don't need that. It makes it look weird. Yeah. And not like fun weird, just weird weird.
Sonny00:52:23Well, this movie has a real almost Sin City quality to it, which is what I thought of when I thought of the city, right? Like the city is not a real, it's not a real place. It's like, it's a fictional idea of a city. You say Gotham, JBL, I was thinking like Sin City, but you know, same basic idea where it's like, it's a den of iniquity with crooked cops and you know, people try to-
JVL00:52:48Crooked cops, but the gang is Chinese and the mayor is black. Like it's a, like it doesn't make sense as a whole.
Sonny00:52:54None of it makes, none of it makes any sense, but like it, and that's fine. And, and, and the, the, the, the over the top, you know, blood splatters, et cetera, are like its own kind of style. Again, like Sin City that has its own, you know, its own particular style. This is, this is the same sort of thing. And again, you throw in the very frenetic, uh, shaky cam camera work, which I, I never love, but can work in some circumstances better than others. I don't think it works here. Um, and the, the car chases with the kind of zooming up on the side and what, um, it's, it's interesting. At least I, I, I, maybe I need to just like sit down and watch it when I'm not tired. Cause maybe I would, I may have just gotten tired while watching this. I'm not going to lie. I may have just been watching it at night.
Mike00:53:43That could have been me too. And gotten, I don't think so. It's not that good, but yeah.
Sonny00:53:48It, it, it just didn't just did not work.
Mike00:53:50But here's my question. Why did Tom Hardy do this movie? Like it felt a little beneath Tom Hardy or am I wrong? He did Capone.
Sonny00:54:02He does, uh, he does interesting things. He does weird and different things. Um, you know, and working with Gareth Evans is interesting. Like Gareth Evans is considered one of the best, you know, uh, particularly on that, like kind of not, not the like big mainstream tier, but like the second tier of like better than VOD action. But, but, you know, still like stylized and different enough that it's, uh, that it, that it doesn't work with mainstream audiences. Um, so, you know, I, like I can understand. Also it's a, it's a role where he gets to do a lot of grunting and kind of gesturing with his, with his eyes and his head, um, more than like, you know, he's not doing a lot of monologues here.
Mike00:54:47Right.
Sonny00:54:47Right.
Mike00:54:48But yeah. And, and, and his weird, I think maybe the reason you couldn't hear and understand him Sonny was because his accent was bizarre. Like it was like New York, Brooklyn cop, but not really. It was not a good choice.
Sonny00:55:04Yeah. Also, maybe, maybe I just had the volume down too low. Cause I didn't want to all the bullet noises to wake up the kids. I don't, I don't know. Part of this is on me. I think I, I'm, I'm willing to accept that. I have not given this movie the fairest of shots, but. I, uh, I did not, I did not love it. And I, I, I'm the one who suggested we do this. Cause I like Evans. I think the raid, the raid is a pretty good, pure action movie. The raid two redemption is, is interesting. Cause it's like the godfather part two of Indonesian action movies. It's like this very convoluted plot about family struggling against each other with all their, with all these weird care. It's like two and a half hours long. It's crazy. Long. Um, but it's, but it's, it's better than this. This just, uh, did not, did not work for me.
JVL00:55:53Do we have a favorite Tom Hardy performance that isn't Bane?
Mike00:56:01That's a good question. Um, I mean, I'm assuming yours JVL is, um, is what's his name from layer cake.
JVL00:56:11He's very, very, he's Clarky and layer cake and Clarky barely in the movie.
Mike00:56:15I mean, he's, he's good for the little bits. But he's got like, that's the first time I saw him.
JVL00:56:20He's got five lines in it. Um, he's handsome Bob and rock and roll. Uh, right. What's your favorite JVL? I don't know. I, it might be, it's cause again, it's a very, very small part, but he is in the Gary Oldman Tinker Taylor. Yep.
Mike00:56:38And he plays all together. JVL.
JVL00:56:40I think, I think we did in New Hampshire. Yeah. Yep. Um, and he's, I mean, he's really, really good in all these things. He's really good in, in Dunkirk. Yes. He's really good in Fury Road. Like, and these are movies where he's not really, he's not the lead in any of them. He's not even really the lead in Fury Road, but he's just so good. He does so much with so little.
Sonny00:57:05Well, he, he is, I've, I've, I think I've written about this before, but he is the great eye actor of his generation. Like he does more with his, it's why he's always in masks. It's why he like in Dunkirk, you barely see his face. He's got the pilot's mask on most of the time. Bane obviously is a, is another one. Um, uh, but the, uh, but yeah, no, he is like, he can do more with his eyes than voice.
JVL00:57:31I mean, he's really, and his voice is the voice. Yeah.
Sonny00:57:33Yeah. Uh, no, my favorite is inception. I, I still like his, his, his turn in inception is so good and like, so kind of perfectly calibrated for that, um, that, that role. Uh, that just did it. It is, it is always stuck with me.
Mike00:57:52Yeah. I was going to say inception, but I'll say max in, in fury road. Like, um, I mean, he just, to your point about his, his eye acting and, um, just the, he's, he's, he's, he takes this iconic role, I guess you can call it iconic role from Mel Gibson and like makes it its own thing. And I enjoy it. And frankly, a lot more than, than. Then, uh, then Mel Gibson's, um, so that's mine.
JVL00:58:21How does he even have very many lines in fury road? I don't think so. Very, no, he just, this is the thing he does on screen, which is so powerful and different from what most other actors do. He is incredibly laid back on screen. Like there's a casualness to him that is not, he is both casual and determined. Demanding of your attention, if that makes sense.
Mike00:58:51Yep. You know, like he's 63 lines, by the way.
JVL00:58:55Yeah. He fills the space without really trying, you know, he's like, even his Bane, like Bane is like throwing away lines and, you know, he doesn't really swagger. He sort of slinks around and does his thing, even though he's a large physical presence. Um, and in, you know, he's like mashed into the chair and inception, you know, when we first meet him. He's got the opium. It's not, I guess the bar, right? And he's like in his big overstuffed club chair.
Sonny00:59:23He's got the, he's got the chips that he's forged.
JVL00:59:26And, uh, he does that in role after role. And that to me is just a sign of a movie star. Like he doesn't open movies in the way that movie stars do, but you put him on screen and you can't take your eyes off them.
Mike00:59:42So does he, what does his career look like from here? Is he just doing like action? Action movie type stuff for the next few years and, and grows into some kind of, uh, I don't know, like he, you know, he's, he's around like into his eighties doing British roles. Like what, what does it, what does it look like?
Sonny01:00:04I don't know. I feel like he there's, there are a lot of different things he can do, which leave leaves the door pretty open. I like, do you remember, uh, did, I don't know if we, that may have, this may have come out before we even were doing the show, but the, um, the, uh, the, the movie legends, legend, legend, or legend where he plays the twin.
JVL01:00:22Well, he's twin gangsters and I've never seen it. Is it good?
Sonny01:00:25No, it's, it's, it's, I would not say it's great, but it's interesting cause it's, it's a lot like sinners actually, where he's playing like, uh, he's playing twins and one of them is very different from the other. And it's, it's, uh, you know, it's, it's amusing. Um, uh, but yeah, no, I, there, there are just a lot of different things he can do. He's in a TV show right now. He's in, uh, he's in. He's on, um, hold on. I'll, I'll look it up real quick.
Mike01:00:51Oh, mob land.
Sonny01:00:53Yeah.
Mike01:00:54Mob land. Yeah.
Sonny01:00:55Mob land. Um, which is supposed to be fine. People seem to, he was also in a TV show called taboo, which was, uh, kind of an interesting, um, which, oh, you know what? No, the, the, the best Tom Hardy, the best Tom Hardy role is lock where he's just him
JVL01:01:11in the car, him in a car, a car on the phone, right?
Sonny01:01:14Him in a, him in a car on the phone, talking to people. So working his construction crew through the laying of cement, um, the foundation of this skyscraper. It's, it's just, it's, it's a perfect little movie. It's like 85 minutes long. It's great. Um, but again, it's like, it's a one hander. It's him in a car and occasionally gets on the phone with his wife or his business partners.
JVL01:01:37Havoc is a one hander too. I mean the, the other hand of it.
Sonny01:01:40Right. The 2005 hand. Yeah. All right.
Mike01:01:45All right. Uh, that is awesome. All the time we are going to give to this episode on that note. Uh, and, uh, you can check us out over at subbeacon.com. Tell your friends, tell your family, and we'll talk to you next time.
JVL01:02:05All right. I'm Kim. I'm sorry, but I, we have to talk about it. Were either of you shocked that Anne Hathaway made that movie when she did? Cause she was America's sweetheart. She was, uh, you know. Was she at that time?
Sonny01:02:19I think so. That was, that was also right after Brokeback Mountain, I believe, which she was also, uh.
JVL01:02:25I guess there's a difference between like taking her kid off and Brokeback Mountain for an arc movie. And then like, you know, Hey, I'm going to pull a train with Bijou Phillips.
Sonny01:02:35Well, that was a, that was not quite this. Those were that scene. You're misremembering slightly. I think it was, uh.
JVL01:02:42I mean, Bijou Phillips is the one who winds up pulling the train because Anne Hathaway decides like halfway through. Like, oh, I don't want to do this. And then Bijou Phillips is like, I'll take them both.
Sonny01:02:52No, that's not. Again, that's not. You're misremembering the scene slightly.
JVL01:02:56You'll have to ask Michael Goldfarb about that.
Sonny01:02:58Yeah, you would know.
JVL01:02:59Michael Goldfarb, who is the foremost student of Bijou Phillips in America.
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