#295. Severance: One Episode Left
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This is a stripped-down bonus episode with JVL traveling and absent, so it's just Mike and Sonny diving straight into a full recap of the second half of Severance season two, covering through episode nine ahead of the finale. Both are largely defending the season against online complaints that it's "spinning its wheels" or turning into Lost 2.0: Sonny argues the Cobell-centric bottle episode was terrific world-building even with only one real plot beat (revealing she invented the severance procedure), while Mike singles out the Mark-and-Gemma flashback episode as the season's highlight for finally showing what Gemma's life is like on the testing floor. They dig into Milchick's unexpected depth this season (Sonny defends it as consistent with a true believer who thinks he's helping people; Mike is coming around after resisting it), the rushed-but-effective Dylan/Dylan G/his wife love triangle, the escalating innie-versus-outie hatred embodied by Hallie R. and Helena Egan, and Irving's send-off on a train in a shot both agree looks like startlingly bad, oddly bright CGI for a show that otherwise never does bright sunlight. They also puzzle over the unresolved Ms. Wong subplot, the ambiguous setting/timeline of the show, and what "Cold Harbor" and Gemma's promised "death" might actually mean, with Sonny pointedly refusing to make any predictions since he doesn't want to "solve the puzzle" as they go. There's essentially no separate opening banter here — the whole brief episode is the Severance discussion itself, bookended by jokes about Mike being called a "fetid moppet."
From the show notes
OK, so, this is a bonus episode but also it might be the only episode this week. Apologies, Mike and JVL are traveling. Sonny might try to do a tight 30 on Star Wars Unlimited (or failing that Steven Soderbergh) for Friday all by himself, we'll see.
Full transcript
Mike00:00:00Welcome to the Sub-Beacon podcast. I'm your co-host Mike Warren. I'm joined by my co-host who told me just before we came on to devour feculence. Well, to be fair, I just called him a fetid moppet, Sonny Bunch. Join us over at subbeacon.com. Tell your friends and family they can become a patron at subbeacon.com to get episodes every Friday and or most Fridays and bonus episodes like this one. That's right. This is a bonus episode. That's a big part of why JVL will not be joining us. Sonny and I are returning at the near the end of the second half of season two of Severance to talk about the second half of season two of Severance. Just before the final episode airs in, uh, in just a few days, a couple of days. Uh, Sonny, um, yeah, we, uh, we watched the first half and we talked about it in a bonus episode. Um, what, uh, what are your thoughts? Uh, let's just dive right in on, uh, on the second half of this second season of Severance.
Sonny00:01:24Uh, yeah. So, I mean, we're, uh, we're doing this episode cause there's probably not going to be a lot of people watching this episode. So, uh, we're going to be doing this episode. It's not going to be a Friday episode cause, uh, you, you and JBL are traveling. So just to give folks a heads up, it's, it's like, it's, it's kind of a bonus episode, really more of a, it's a replacement episode for Friday. Uh, but we wanted to do it cause we want to talk about it because, uh, I, I, I don't know how you have felt about this second season of Severance Mike. I know there's, there's a lot of people out there who think there's been too many filler episodes that they're not moving things enough along that there's, there's some, there's some you know, discussion of the lost problem, right? That there's a, there's, you know, they don't know exactly where they're going with this thing. Um, and I don't know, that could end up being true. That could certainly end up being true, but I have, I have enjoyed every episode of the show so far. Uh, have you enjoyed them all equally? Uh, well, I don't know about that. I mean, I, I don't know. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that necessarily, but I don't think anybody
Mike00:02:23enjoys every show equally. Lumen, Lumen expects you to enjoy every episode equally.
Sonny00:02:28Why? I can't do that. I'm not, I'm not the slave to Lumen. Uh, the, the, the severed employees. Sorry. Go, go ahead, Sonny. So I, I, but like, you know, there were some, there were some complaints after the, uh, there were some complaints after this week's episode that they're spinning their wheels, that they're not really, you know, getting things done. And like I, anybody, anybody who remembers the first season, the, the, the, the episode before the penultimate episode for this show is not like, is not like penultimate shows, uh, on HBO where you would, you, you would often get somebody
Mike00:03:05getting killed or, you know, whatever. All of the big action of the end of the season happens in the penultimate episode and the Sopranos or the wire. Right. That was typically, that was typically
Sonny00:03:17the case for the Sopranos, uh, you know, or, uh, I don't know, other, other shows, but the, the, the penultimate episodes of several, or at least the penultimate, the penultimate episode of the first season of severance really set up a crazy finale where they were, they were all out of the, they were all out of the basement for the first time. It was great. It was fascinating stuff. Um, and I thought this episode did a good job of getting everybody to the place they needed to be, to really kick off something crazy for this last 75 minute episode. There were people
Mike00:03:49who complained. We should real quick, just say we're, we're talking about all the way through episode nine of season two. So yeah, there's going to be spoilers alert up through the
Sonny00:03:58through before the finale. Cause we haven't seen the finale, but, uh, you know, everything, everything up till then there were, there were people who did not like the cobell centric episode. It was a shorter episode. It was like 35 minutes or something like that. Um, that takes place entirely in a miss cobells, you know, childhood home area. And I like, I understand not wanting to spend one episode focus that really only had one key plot point, which was revealing that miss cobell is the, creator of the severance, uh, uh, product, the creator of the severance, the severance procedure. Um, but at the same time, I thought it was a, I thought it was a great world building episode where they showed us the real world effects of this place outside of the interpersonal effects. You know, like the, the, it's easy to kind of compartmentalize Lumen as a company that just, you know, messes with these people for God only knows what reason. You know, because of the numbers, the, the, the macro data refinement, the numbers, but the, uh, but like seeing the effects on a town, um, and the effects it had on these people, the kind of cult like, uh, attitude that it, that it instilled, I think is very,
Mike00:05:16I think it's important. And the, the sort of, um, the, the carry on effects or the, you know, the way in which this company sort of hollowed out that town otherwise, right? That with, uh, the people's, you know, Huffin ether, you know, uh, while they're freezing their asses off in a bar. Yeah. It's like from the ether factory that, that's here again himself, uh, founded. So, okay. So it's interesting. You mentioned the, the sort of negative reaction that's been sort of in the, in the ether, no pun intended in the ether, uh, in the discussion show. Um, I'm, it's interesting that there was all of that frustration or consternation about the Cobell episode, but none for the kind of bottle episode, if you will, uh, that came before it about that sort of went back in time and looked at Mark and Gemma's relationship where we actually get to like meet Gemma a lot, I guess, because there was a lot of plot development in that one, because we find out a lot about what Gemma's up to.
Sonny00:06:28Yeah. Um, but yeah, that, I mean that, that episode, I don't think anybody who is complaining about like, well, what is, what is lumen doing? What is it? They, those complaints were silenced for a week because there was a lot going on there. Um, and we may not, we may still not know precisely what's going on, but it's very clear that they're doing like pretty extensive stuff with the severance procedure. Like she is severed a hundred different ways, which is fast, which again is, is kind of fascinating. And, you know, uh, and the, the, uh, you know, again, the reason I think the show works beyond the general mystery of like, what are they trying to do? Blah, blah, blah. Is that it, there is like with lost you had, why are they on this Island? What is the Island? What is the, what is the mystery of this Island here? It's like a legitimate psychological theory of mind question of like, if you are, if you have cut somebody into a hundred percent, a hundred different pieces and you know, one part of their soul spends its entire existence getting dental work done. Um, at the behest of some, you know, crazed, uh, drill wielding dentist, like that's pretty miserable. That's pretty miserable. That's a, that's a miserable
Mike00:07:49existence you've created. And it, and it raises all kinds of questions for the viewer and, and maybe we can get into a lot of those. I, I am also struck. It's interesting. And I'm glad to hear you say, Sonny, that you are as frustrated with the discourse about this season as I am, because there have been parts of this season, moments of this season or decisions, uh, with this season that I haven't loved. I may have mentioned it in our first episode, uh, that we talked about severance in, but I, I haven't loved what they've done with Milchick this season. Um, I think he, he worked great as kind of a pure corporate monster and the sort of. The sort of breaking of Milchick as well is I'm coming around to it because I can see where they're going with it, but I've been sort of annoyed by the, um, by the way they've taken a guy who was like pure middle management and given him some depth. Um, I want all my middle managers to be monsters. This is what I'm trying to say in, in, in, in all, in all cultures, understandable for
Sonny00:09:02good. There are the worst. Uh, no, I see. I, I just disagree. I disagree with that characterization of him. Um, overall, even from the first season, because like, who was the guy who did all the party stuff with it? Like, I, I think there's a, I think there's a case to be made that Mr. Milchick believes so thoroughly in the Egan Lumen. Philosophy, ideal, whatever, that he's been so, he's been so brought into this world that he actually thinks he can make these people's lives and experiences better. I think he, I think he is actually, uh, I think he is actually concerned for them, um, in, in a way that is, uh, in a way that I think has always been there for the, for the character and I think has shown up particularly well. This season in little flashes of humor, like in the, in the, in the first or second episode where Milchick is like a shambolic rube. Is that what you think of me, Mark? Uh, and like that, that's a, that was just a funny, that's a very funny bit. Uh, and I, I enjoy it.
Mike00:10:16All of the sort of, uh, the, uh, the elevated diction of, of Mr. Milchick, right? Like all of the big words that, that his bosses don't like him using. Like that's almost every time he uses big words. It's, it's just funny to me. Look, I I'm coming around to this, to the way that they were using Milchick. My bigger point was saying that whatever my little quibbles here and there, um, I really have enjoyed every episode and I don't understand what people, what people want from this show. If they don't want the kind of world building that the show was doing, um, in a, in a, on top of, or maybe underneath all of the psychological questions or the philosophical questions really, um, that, that the show raises, it's also got this incredibly weird, but, um, organic and organically revealed world, um, that I'm like every time, every time I'm in it, I enjoy learning more about it. And I, but I think people have this idea that well, it was a workplace comedy with a twist and now it's not that anymore. And I just was never my impression of the show. I mean, I, I, it had those, it had many of the parts of a workplace comedy with a twist, but it was also so many other things too. Um, and it just seems like people are complaining. Well, I just don't know why, why aren't they,
Sonny00:11:53what are they complaining about? I just, I think they, I think they want, oh, they want it to be lost 2.0. I think there, there's, I think there's an element of, you know, of the viewers who are like, I want this to, I want this to belly flop, like lost belly flopped because you, you can't do TV shows like this. They don't work. I, I, I dispute anybody's ability to pull this off. And like, I don't, whatever. I, I don't, I don't want to read anybody's mind. I mean, I, I like, I wouldn't say it's been a perfect season. I think there are things that are not perfect. I think there are things that they are rushing. I think there are things they are rushing through. Um, and maybe you don't need to linger on, for instance, Dylan G's Dylan G like any Dylan and Audi Dylan basically having a, a, a love triangle with Dylan's wife, which like I think has basically worked in how they have sketched it out, but it does feel a little bit rushed here at the could have, could have maybe been built out over another couple of episodes to really get into why she's frustrated with Audi Dylan, why she is so, uh, attracted to any Dylan and like Dylan's always been a fascinating character because his, his whole persona in the room has been, I am the, I'm better than the rest of you guys at this stuff. I got, I've got all these rewards. I'm so good at this. I'm so, I'm such a, I'm such an awesome, awesome up there too. And I bet I'm up. I'm bad. I'm great up there too. I'm probably a bodybuilder up there. Like, I mean, he knows what his body looks like. It's, you know, it's not like his body changes up there. Like he should know, but he, but he has so much, he has all this self-confidence and, and again, I like, they have done, they have done a good enough job sketching it out that I didn't find it unbelievable. Um, I just, I just want, I wanted a little more of it. But maybe I look again, maybe this is why the show actually works because they don't linger on these things, uh, too much. I could, I could use more Rickon. I need more Rickon this season. There's very little Rickon.
Mike00:14:09I know it's, it's kind of a shame and especially, um, especially how much the first season, even the beginning of this season sort of teased that Rickon would be a big, a big part of this because of his book and Lumen's interest in the book, um, and all these things. Um, uh, but I want, I want to go back to the Dylan G stuff, the Dylan storyline, because, um, I agree with you. Well, I think the time has been fine. I think the, um, there's even a sort of a story, uh, explanation for it, which is right. These, these innies are going through, uh, you know, human development, right. Very, very quickly. There's something uh, infatuation with his wife, with his own wife. There, there's something adolescent about it. Um, and it's, uh, it doesn't mean it's not real. It just, in fact, it makes it in a way it makes it even more real, right? Because this is, this is a Dylan who is much closer to the deal, the Audi Dylan when, when the, when his wife met him or, or fell in love with him. Right. And that's, that's why she's falling in love with this more adolescent Dylan. Um, and there's something very sweet about, I mean, there were even raises all these great ideas about like, well, what would it be like if you could sort of fall in love with your spouse again? Um, and, and have all of the life experience that you've had of the knowledge that of the ups and downs, but also kind of experience from a one way direction. Um, uh, the person that you initially fell in love with, uh, and kind of doing that it would be weird. It would, it would raise all the kind of issues that, that the, the show has raised, but it's, I mean, again, it's, it's one of these things that's, that's, that's a fascinating and only in this show could they really kind of explore that, those kinds of ideas. Um, and, and I, I, I just think if you're not appreciating how unique the show is at raising some of those questions or raising some, making people, making you think about that, I just don't think you're, uh, I dunno, like I can't tell you how to engage with a, with a piece of art, but I, I don't think you're, I don't think you're doing it right. Yeah. I mean, what's, what's fascinating about
Sonny00:16:37this season in particular, uh, is the, the ramping up. I, we, I think we discussed this a little bit in the last bonus episode, but the ramping up of the hatred of the innies and the Audis for, for themselves, for each other, like the way, the way the, like when, when Audi Dylan, here's that any Dylan has been seducing his wife. He's like, I'm going to kill him. I'm, I'm going to never go down there again. He's going to, he's going to disappear. Uh, and, and, um, and again, like you see this more, most explicitly in the, the, the split between Hallie R and Helena Egan, who, you know, uh, Hallie is like, Helena stole my body. She stole my, she came down here and she stole my life and she stole my body. And like, this is, uh, this is a incredible betrayal and I hate her and I'm not her. I, I reject her. Uh, and that is, again, that's, uh, that is interesting and fascinating. And like Mark trying to meld the two and, you know, possibly killing himself in the process. Uh, again, it's interesting. The only person who seems essentially at peace with both Innie and Audi is, um, uh, Oh, what's his name? Uh, Irving, who, uh, at the, at near the close of this episode is sent off in the worst CGI train I've ever seen into the, into the, the, the distance of whatever, wherever they are. Yeah. I did that. Did that not jump out at you as well? That, that train going into the sunrise, it jumped out at me in part
Mike00:18:18because it's, there doesn't seem to be a ton of CGI in this show. And so it had this look, you know what? I don't want to give them too much credit here. Um, but it had the appearance almost of one of Bert's paintings, um, down, down on the, uh, on the severed floor. Um, just in, it was, it was realistic ish. I don't think that was intentional. It just, that was what, that was what occurred to me when I saw it. You know, what really jumped out at me about it was
Sonny00:18:57the, the brightness of the sun, the bright, this is a show that has never done bright sunlight like that. I don't think. Cause I mean, you know, the flashbacks of the Gemma
Mike00:19:10episode, there was sunlight, but it was muted. It was, I mean, it was on film. So yeah,
Sonny00:19:16it's always been muted. And you know, a thing I was thinking about, and I can't tell, I think it's just because we've only really known these people for a month or two, right? Really? Like, that's the amount of time that has, uh, elapsed from the, from the first episode to now we are, we're actually not sure really, we don't actually know for sure, but I, but it's, it's, it's not long. And the reason, the reason I was thinking about this is because it's been winter the whole time there for both seasons. Now, again, maybe it's just because they're in Minnesota or someplace or, you know, and it's, it's, it's cold for a long stretch of time there, but it did it, but like, anytime they, anytime we have seen the outside, it's either been nighttime or it's been like a, kind of a pale winter sunlight. It has not been, you know, the bright sunshiny here is the, you know, here is the beacon of hope that he is taking train off to, which is, which is again, I understand the symbolism of that. I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, pretend I don't get what they were going for. It did jump out at me as a very weird looking shot. I did not love it. I'm going to be honest. I did not love that shot.
Mike00:20:30Yeah, no, no, no. I agree. I agree. Okay. Well, what else here? Because I mean, do we want to get into like predictions? I feel like predictions will be, you know,
Sonny00:20:41moot in a, in a few days. I don't do prediction. Can I, I, I've never done predictions on shows like this. I don't like predictions on shows like this. I'm not trying to solve the puzzle as we go. I'm not, I want it. I want, I want the mystery to wash over me. I, I, I accept the mystery. I want it to, I want it to, to come to me. I'm not, I'm not journeying to it. I'm not trying to sniff it out and, uh, prove how smart I am.
Mike00:21:08All right. Well then let's talk about, um, well, let's talk about one of the threads that I thought would be, there would be some more interesting things and maybe there will be, but so far it doesn't seem to be, which is, um, Ms. Wong, the, the like child, uh, who ended up, you know, was, we, we find out was in the winter tide fellowship that Harmony Cobell herself, uh, was, uh, was in when she was in the salt, what was it called? Salt lick salt, not, not salt, like salt, like salt neck, salt neck, salt neck. Yeah. Um, and, uh, I don't know. I thought there was going to be more to it. And at the end, she just sort of became the, um, sort of the object of milkshakes frustration with his own position in, in the company. And, um, and then she kind of gets sent off to Svalbard for the next, but I don't know. It's like, I mean, on one hand, it's, it's a great insight into how creepy this whole company cult is with like children and the way it sort of grabs children early on and, and puts them through, through their, through their process. Um, I don't know. I, I, I was, I really enjoyed Ms. Wong and the actress. I thought she did a great job. Uh, so I hope we don't like, I hope this is not the last we see her, but it felt like good. It felt like we were no longer going to see her anymore. She's going to
Sonny00:22:43be, she's gone. Yeah, it definitely, uh, again, this is one of these things where like, I wish maybe this was a 12 or 13 episode season instead of a 10 episode season or a nine episode season. And yeah, I could, I could, yeah, I, I feel you. I, I don't know. It's, uh, I, I thought she was, I thought she was great. She's great in that role. The character's fine. I do think that the point is to drive home, you know, look at, look at how weird these people are. Right. And, uh, this is, you can imagine Milchuk himself going through a process like this. Yes. Is the thing, right? It's, it's not entirely meant to show you what it is like to be Ms. Wong. It's meant to show you what it's like to be Mr. Milchuk or Ms. Cobell. Um, that is, that is what we're really getting here is a glimpse at the previous lives. What, what made Ms. Cobell, Ms. Cobell, what made Mr. Milchuk, Mr. Milchuk. Um, and I, I think that in that regard, it works, it worked pretty well. I think that was a, that was a successful, uh, that was a successful rhetorical gambit on the part
Mike00:23:57of the show. Yeah. Um, any other, any other thoughts on, on the whole, the whole Gemma thing? I mean, that episode to me, I thought it was the highlight of the season. Um, the episode where we see what Gemma's life is really like under, under the severed floor, whatever it, what, what is the, that's the testing floor, right? Is what they call it. Um, I mean, again, it raised all these questions for me about, so who is the real Gemma, right? So when Gemma goes down on to the severed floor, she is, um, Ms. Casey, the severed floors in-house psychologist. Right. And then she goes down to the testing floor and she's back to being her Audi is, is my, is what I gathered. She's, she's her Audi because she remembers being married to Mark. Um, she seems to not be there. She tries to escape. Uh, and then she goes into these individual rooms and becomes a different person. Yeah. And she's not the Ms. Casey from the several. I mean, it, it, it sort of, it just, like, I keep thinking about this aspect of the show and like, what, uh, you know, what would it be like to have your mind shattered into a million pieces and, and like, what is left of you? Uh, you know, what effect does this have on, on your Audi? Um, you know, is, is there a finite amount of your mind? No. And, and then this is really kind of chipped away. I don't know. It's, it's just, I, I thought it was an ingenious, uh, plot point. And, uh, I just can't wait to see where it goes.
Sonny00:25:44Yeah. I mean that, that the, the big question that remains is what is cold Harbor? What are, what is Mark actually working on? What will happen when he completes it? Because I think Cobell says something to the effect of when it's done, Gemma will be dead. Um, and I, you know,
Mike00:26:03is that, does that mean they kill her? Does that mean she will actually, is it a physical death
Sonny00:26:08or is it a mental death? Is it a, is it a erasing the Audi itself? Right. Because, you know, uh, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's a real, I think it's a real interesting question. I think I've, I'm very curious to see what the, the actual, uh, the actual, the outcome here is. Um, and I, you know, again, there, there are little threads here and there that I would like to see tugged at a little more. Um, like, you know, precisely what is it that, uh, that, that, um, like precisely where does the, the woman who has been helping Mark come from? Like, where is she going? Like, what is, what's her deal? Yeah. Yeah. What's her, what's her deal? Uh, or I don't know.
Mike00:26:57She from like a rival company. I mean, these are all the questions I'm like,
Sonny00:27:01yeah. I mean, I, I, I still think, I still think there's like an actual legitimate question as to where are they? Like where, where, what, what precisely version of the United States is this, that all of this is happening in? Um, cause I don't think it's a hundred percent clear that it is intended specifically to be our, modern day ish America, but I don't know that that will be right. It's like, you've got the
Mike00:27:33cars that are all, you know, there does not seem to be a car that was made before 1990,
Sonny00:27:37but they've all got iPhones. Yeah, exactly. Um, uh, and, uh, and there's, you know, I,
Mike00:27:46I know for a fact that the, the Colbella episode in salt neck or whatever was, uh, filmed on the Island of Newfoundland. Uh, so there's, you know, couldn't, couldn't actually drive there. Um, but, uh, there, there's something great lakes about it, you know, and there was, I think there was a painting. One of Bert's paintings, uh, shows, um, here, like looking like looking off a cliff, uh, onto these lakes that look vaguely like the great lakes. Um, so, um, finally, uh, I did want to ask you the, the train, not withstanding, I mean, this show is great to look at too. Um, it's all shot on, uh, you know, on these great locations in New York and New Jersey. Um, I mentioned, um, uh, Newfoundland. Uh, I, I, I don't know. I, uh, it's, it must cost an arm and a leg for apple, not that they care, but like it just, I, I love how this, how the show looks. And that's a huge part of the appeal to me. It's just, it looks better than almost anything you can watch on TV.
Sonny00:28:52Yeah. I mean, I, I think this season costs something like $25 million an episode or some, some crazy amount of money. And like, again, this is not a show with episode. It's not a show like game of Thrones with big battle episodes or like heavy CGI dragon work. Right. Like, uh, you know, it's, it is, it's just a show that's, uh, I, they spend a lot of money and a lot of time building it out and making it look right. Which, you know, good
Mike00:29:20for them. Yeah. Uh, all right. Any other thoughts on, uh, the second half of season two? Of severance, uh, any, um, you know, we're not making predictions, but any, any kind of final thoughts as, as we look back, is this, is this a successful, has it been a successful sophomore season for the show? I've enjoyed every episode. That's all. I
Sonny00:29:42mean, I don't know what else you, what else you want from a TV show. I don't want anything
Mike00:29:47else. What do you want? Internet? What do you want? You tell me, tell me what you want
Sonny00:29:51from the show. You know, the internet, a bunch of assholes out there is what, what the internet problem is. Exactly. Uh, all right. Well, that is all the time we're giving to this
Mike00:30:01bonus episode. Join us over at sub beacon.com. Uh, leave a comment, tell your friends and family, and we'll talk to you next time. Bye.
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