#290. SNL 50: Beyond Saturday Night
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The main event is Peacock's four-part documentary SNL 50: Beyond Saturday Night, and the trio splits up the episodes: Mike covers the audition-tape episode (a parade of cringe-inducing early reels from Keenan Thompson, Pete Davidson, and a baffling Stephen Colbert audition nobody can explain being passed over) and the "weird year" finale on Lorne Michaels's disastrous, chemistry-free Season 11 comeback cast (Robert Downey Jr., Anthony Michael Hall, Joan Cusack, Randy Quaid) that nonetheless planted the seeds of the show's greatest era; Sonny takes the "More Cowbell" episode, walking through the sketch's evolution from a wood-block bit to Christopher Walken's Bruce Dickinson, the dress-rehearsal footage that shows how close it came to being cut, and Dave Grohl's unexpectedly poignant cameo comparing Walken's cowbell fatigue to his own with "Teen Spirit." Before any of that, the first third is classic Sub-Beacon sprawl: JVL frets about the safety of taking his kids to the Eagles' Super Bowl parade (greased poles, trampling risk, "the hangover but with your children"), and Mike delivers an extended trip report on Universal Orlando's Harry Potter World with his son — the wand interactivity, the Hogwarts Express, disappointingly disgusting park food, an uncanny-valley AI deepfake of Vin Diesel and Ludacris on the Fast & Furious ride, and a digression with JVL and Sonny about the economics of building billion-dollar theme parks around single authors (J.K. Rowling) versus more durable franchises. They close with a quick, dead Super Bowl-weekend box office check (Dog Man still number one) before diving into the SNL retrospectives.
From the show notes
50 Years of SNL! More Cowbell!
Full transcript
JVL00:00:00S&L is on the brink of cancellation. I didn't know that it'd be such a difficult year.
Guest00:00:05The weird year is the polite way to put it. Most people say to me it was the bad year. It was so bad that it could have been canceled.
Mike00:00:22Welcome to the Sub-Beacon podcast. I'm Mike Warren and you're not joining me as always are my two co-hosts who want to pump you up, Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at subbeacon.com. This place has everything. Ice sculptures, winos, germs, German Smurfs, a Teddy Ruxpin wearing mascara, an old lady wearing kitten play hair and none other than DJ Baby Bok Choi. You can also sign up to be a patron. It's the only place to listen to the Sub-Beacon. It's subbeacon.com. New episodes every Friday. We're going to even have some bonus episodes. If you're a patron, you've got to go to subbeacon.com. Tell your friends, tell your family, go to subbeacon.com. We are going to be talking about SNL 50, Beyond Saturday Night. Is that the name of the docu-series? It's a docu-series on Peacock. Four episodes in sort of in light of the 50th anniversary of the beginning of Saturday Night Live. Later on in the show. But first, JVL, let's check in with you because you are in the midst, right, if I'm not mistaken, of your lost weekend here, your bachelor weekend with the boys that's going on for two weeks.
JVL00:01:48Not yet. Not yet. It starts this coming Thursday. But listen, I want to devote almost all of the time to you because I want to hear all about it. But I have a question. Question first for the two of you. Sure. This is much bigger than just what movies should we watch? The Philadelphia Eagles won the Super Bowl, which is very nice. It would have been nicer if it happened not in the middle of a constitutional crisis. Would have been able to take some more enjoyment out of it. It's a little hard to enjoy a football game when, you know, the rule of law is crumbling. But, but what? Making signs at me. Just asking, should I take the boys to the parade? How dangerous on a scale of one to ten is taking the boys to Philadelphia to a parade?
Sonny00:02:34How many Poles are still standing in Philadelphia? Can they climb them?
JVL00:02:37On Friday, should I pull them out of school and take them to the break? That's the question.
Mike00:02:41I don't, I don't understand why this is even a question. The answer is absolutely yes. Absolutely yes. Like what? I feel like JVL, I feel like you knew the answer. I feel like you knew the answer when you asked the question because I mean, it's Philadelphia. By the way, the city will have it all out of their system by then. You know, it's just, you know, they've, they've got, they're over it. It doesn't sound like Philadelphia. It's not Philadelphia, I know. So what is funny about the pole thing is that, so my brother lives in South Philadelphia and very close to, I mean, you know, literally within walking distance of the Italian market on Ninth Street. And there is a pole in the Italian market, right? And there is a pole in the Italian market, right? And there is a pole in the Italian market, that they grease up once a year for the, for the Italian festival. I think it's around the feast of St. Joseph. I could be wrong. That, that people climb up. So it's like, it's like an actual part of like Philadelphia culture. Like they actively try to grease up a pole just for, just for fun, not even for winning a sports championship. So
Sonny00:03:51isn't this also like a thing at West Point? Like, I feel like climbing greasy, climbing the greasy pole is a saying for a reason. It's like, it's a thing that lots of people do. I just, I get the sense that Philadelphia, Philadelphia doesn't just climb the pole. They then remove the pole and then parade the pole down the street like a Roman triumph. Like they've got, like they've got a Cleopatra's body on it. And they're like, look at this, look at this vanquished foe. That's my, that, am I wrong JBL? Is that not what happens?
JVL00:04:24I mean, so many things happen. Horses get punched, horse poop, gets eaten. Uh, I mean, I guess my fears, fears, uh, G money getting trampled under a bunch of drunk mummers, uh, flash having his first beers in the middle of a muddy field outside of the art museum while listening to big daddy Graham give his victories. I mean, I just, I just feel like there's so much potential for like the hangover, but with your children, like, you know, has a face tattoo or something that that's all I'm saying. Like, it just seems like the potential
Sonny00:05:02for calamity here is high. I don't think that's, I don't think that's, that's all. I think, I do think worries about the children getting trampled specifically G money. That's legitimate. I think that's like, I would, I would stay away from like the main, I don't know. What is it? Broad street?
JVL00:05:17What's the, what's the main, like the big thing will be the art museum. So it will culminate at the art museum where they give the speeches. As you guys remember the famous Jason Kelsey speech, where he was dressed as a mummer and basically cut like a 30 minute promo on the city of Philadelphia. It was amazing. Maybe you don't remember the sunny. I'm seeing from your face. I don't remember this at all. Anyway, unimportant. I want to hear about Harry Potter world. In fact, I've already, I've already taken up five minutes of this show. I'd like you to cut all of that sunny. Mike, tell us about Harry Potter. Okay. So, all right. Well, where to begin? So we had a
Mike00:05:58great time. We had a very fun time. I want to preface it by saying this was for my son. We wanted, we were going to do what he wanted to do. Oh boy. It's always the best way these stories start. I would have liked it if he had been a little more adventurous on some of the thrill rides as in like going on them. Um, I feel like he left a lot of on the table, but I can also sympathize because I will say I was not a rollercoaster writer until into my teens. I just didn't like that. Like, so like my brother-in-law is the same way, but his sister, my wife was like writing them all, you know, as soon as she was tall enough. So like, it's a, it's a personal preference thing. Um, and, and so I feel like a pot calling the kettle black when I sort of was talking with him while we're at the parks and saying, look, we're here. I don't know when you're going to be back. And like Hagrid's magical, you know, motorbike ride is said to be the best ride in like the country right now. Like people, uh, wait in line for an hour before the park opens for early admission so that they can run when the park actually opens to the very back of the park so that they can get in line for a hundred minutes to ride this ride. So like when it's got like an 85 minute wait, like maybe we should get in line. And, and he just said, no, I'm not writing it. I, and I, I said, fine. Yes. JVL. Did you explain to your
JVL00:07:50son how the goal was to win the park? Did you explain him that he was engaged not in having fun but in a competitive enterprise against all of the other people to have the most time on ride? No. Okay. I knew I was forgetting something JVL. I knew there was something I was forgetting.
Mike00:08:11Right. No. So, okay. So this is all, I'm all making it sound, uh, so much.
Sonny00:08:17Wait, can I, I want to interject here and ask JVL a question here because you said, you said a very specific thing, time on ride. And I always assumed winning the park means most rides, most diverse, like you rode as many rides as you can, because I feel like time on ride is different. You could ride the same ride over and over again with like short lines, you know, the, the less good rides, but like winning the park for me is
JVL00:08:44like, I'm going to ride all the rides. No, I'm sorry. I, what I, I was imprecise. What I meant was your, you need to get the, your wins above replacement rides. And so the calculation for this ride is part of it, but also the prestige of the ride is a big deal, right? So the, you know, the higher ranking of ride, it's like the slugging average versus just, you know, hitting for average. Correct. Um, so it's obviously it's all very complicated. I don't want to do math for us,
Sonny00:09:13but Michael continue. Uh, there should be an amusement park war. Yes. There must be somewhere.
Mike00:09:22I'm sure there is. Somebody should be sure of this. I, I, I do think if I had just, just shown him all of that, he would have understood. And then we would have all those two R's W a R R. Exactly. There you go. Uh, so, okay. So let me back up and say, uh, we had a great time together. Um, we spent a lot of it. I mean, we just spent a ton of time together and that was wonderful and enjoyable. We spent a lot of time in the Harry Potter sections of both parks and I have to say it is incredible what they have done. Um, I mean, this, this is like not news. This is people have been saying this for 10 years, uh, or however long these parks have been there, but it's, it's unbelievable. The amount of detail, the amount of care that that is taken to sort of make it an enjoyable experience. Um, we, we loved getting the wand, uh, from all of Anders, which you, you know, you pay an arm and a leg and you get this wand and it will, um, and you can go around both sections of the park comes with a map, but you, they also have these little metal discs, uh, in the, in the ground that show you the direction, uh, the, the, the direction of the spell, um, that, that you make and magical things will happen. A quill will rise, a book will open, water will shoot out of the fountain. Um, it's pretty great. And honestly, that might've been his favorite thing. Like we went back to ones he had already done. That's cool. Again. Um, I did have the very, so like the very first day we were there, um, it was, it was kind of like, it was the, uh, it was a Wednesday. So it was sort of the lowest, uh, trafficked day of our three days at the parks. And we like walked right into all of Anders for the show. Like they do a show where they select one kid, to sort of test the wand. And I knew that when we got into the room as to wait to go into the show, I could already sense what was going to happen. And so I sort of pulled my son to the side and I said, look, they're going to pick a kid to, to, to sort of do the wand testing with in this thing that we're about to walk into. And I just want you to be prepared for the fact that it might not be And the reason I knew that is because there was a little girl about eight, nine years old.
JVL00:12:02Younger, cuter girl. Yeah.
Mike00:12:03In, in full, in full Harry Potter regalia.
JVL00:12:08It's like getting picked to go up on the prices, right? If you want to get picked there, you got to really be working it.
Mike00:12:14Totally. Exactly. So, and sure enough, I was absolutely correct. And in fact, afterward, he was like.
Sonny00:12:19You didn't go get him a wheelchair? So just, you didn't like put him in a wheelchair? Roll him up?
Mike00:12:24We're here with Make-A-Wish. I started. I started saying, well, you know, bud, um, six weeks to live. There's still a lot you can do. I said that very loudly.
Sonny00:12:34Get some tiny Tim crutches to kind of, you know.
Mike00:12:37Um, so, uh, anyway, but, so, but he, but that didn't matter. Like he had a great time watching that anyway. Um, so that was terrific. Um, he was in, so, so basically the, the, the, the, this, this vacation that we took was sort of bookended. Like at the beginning, he was kind of sick. And at the end I was kind of sick. And so that, that wasn't great. Um, and we were up late because we flew in the night before and all this stuff. And so like the first day he was kind of in a daze, I think part, partly out of like kind of being a little stuffy part of it, lack of sleep and part of it, just the awe of it all. Like he couldn't believe it was all really there. And so I was able to convince him to ride two of the thrill rides, which are not rollercoaster. Well, one of them is a rollercoaster, the green guts ride, which is an indoor rollercoaster. Um, and then over in, over in, I've heard that I've heard the green guts is amazing. It's, it's terrific. It's such a great rides and I convinced him to ride it and he doesn't like rollercoasters and he didn't really know it was a rollercoaster. Let's just ride it. Totally. Um, yes. And he did enjoy it and we had a great time. Um, he did not want to ride it again, even though there were, I
JVL00:13:57don't even get me started. Did you get Bob? I see. That's I, I blame you for not explaining war to him. I know. I, again, I, I, I dropped the ball. So your fault is apparent. That's
Mike00:14:09not what kind of ride is the Hagrid ride. It's a, it is a rollercoaster. Um, okay. It is a rollercoaster. Yes. Suspended seated. What sort of, so it's like, it's like a motorbike and then a sidecar. And I think there, I don't know how many, I think there's like four, in the train. Gotcha. Um, there's no inversion, like none of the Harry Potter coasters. There's three of them. None of them have inversions. Um, they're all like story based, you know? So there's a lot of, there's a lot of like places for the story to happen. Um, but that's fine. No, no inversions, no loops. Um, so, but that's okay. That's okay. Um, it's, it's, the presentation is incredible. The, there are people, you know, dressed all around to like help you with the wands, you know? So if your wand isn't quite working, in fact, we had one woman like after about a day with the wand and we were having trouble with some of the spells. She took a look at the wand and she was like, why don't you take this back to Ollivanders? Just go straight to the front and tell them your wand needs a repair. Cause there's a little scratch here and they'll repair your wand. And yeah, my son was like, see, he was like, they took it back there and they repaired it. They didn't give me a new one. They gave me the same one. I said, okay. Um, and, uh, uh, you know, but there's
JVL00:15:36like, it's, it's just all overwhelming the train, the, because the whole reason you, you booked this backwards is for the train ride. And I told you, you better ride that damn thing five times to make it worth it. Oh, we absolutely wrote it five times. That
Mike00:15:56was about three times too many. Um, Oh no, it wasn't any good. We're getting back on the train. It was, it was good because you go from studios to, uh, islands of adventure. It's one kind of show and experience. Then you ride from islands of adventure back to studios. It's another, and then you've done it. You know what I mean? And it is a convenient way rather than going to the front of the park. If you're, if you're wanting to stay Harry Potter, it's actually a, it's a great way to like cool off and get to the other park. And it's a, it's a cool experience to like get off and be in the other park. It's just, you know, especially if you're waiting in line for a really long time for a train ride, you've already ridden. It's fine. But it was, it was definitely worth it. It was definitely worth it, uh, to wait for it to
JVL00:16:51be open. Best ride. Um, or best experience. That's probably what, what part of the park was for you, the showstopper and which was for your son, the showstopper.
Mike00:17:02So Diagon Alley, uh, which is in studios, um, for me was the showstopper because it, it was quite, it was so immersive. You just felt like you were in Diagon Alley in the Harry Potter books and the movies. And it was, it was just, there were delights everywhere. Uh, my favorite ride was Gringotts. I loved the Gringotts ride. The, the, the Forbidden Journey, which is in the Hogwarts castle over in Hogsmeade, uh, was also terrific.
JVL00:17:32We also, Hermione's bedroom ride, the Forbidden Journey into Hermione's bed, bed chamber. You're not that far off. I know you're joking. You're not that far off. You are like kind
Mike00:17:46of sitting on a bench and Hermione's puts a spell on it to start the ride. Um, you know, she takes the wand anyway. Um, but there's a lot more practical stuff in, on that ride, which I really appreciated. There's most of the Gringotts ride is a screen. I mean, you're on a roller coaster, but there's a screen, the practical stuff in the Forbidden Journey was, was, um, incredible. Um, so that was great for my son on the other hand. Um, he, he loved all the minions stuff in universal studios. I mean, he loved the Harry Potter stuff. That was great. Two rides in the minions thing that like to death. And the first one is like the flight. This is like the simulator ride. It's basically you stand in line for a while. Then you get in this chair that rises up and you're turned into a minion and there's a cute little story and you, and you bounce around and it pushes you around and you're in grooves thing. And you know, it's a whole thing. We did that like three or four times and you know, the story gets old, the jokes get old, but he loved it and it's fun and it's funny and it's cute. Um, there is a ride across the way from that, uh, which is, it's called like villain con something or other to call it a ride is like, is very, uh, generous. It's a moving walkway. You get a, like a laser gun thing and you go through several rooms that have these. Giant screens in which your gun, you know, works to shoot things that are happening on the screens in front of you and you get points on your gun. And at the end, it's a video game. Basically, it's a moving walkway video game. And we wrote that effing thing five or six times. And you know why we were able to write it so many times because there was zero weight for it. Nobody wanted to do it, but you know, who wouldn't do it? My son,
JVL00:19:57so that's what every time we could have been on a Hagrid's motorbike. I wasn't thinking
Mike00:20:03that at all, JBL. I was thinking, I'm glad my son is having the time of his life. That's
JVL00:20:08right. That's right here. So about me. So it's about us. Exactly. No, but we had a great time relationship. We're making memories, making memories. It was it was great. It was
Mike00:20:20Mardi Gras. So there were like Mardi Gras parades going on while we were there. I will a couple of things about the parks. One, I'm not look, we cook at home a lot. So I eat a lot of home cooked food. I like to cook. My wife likes to cook. We like to eat like food that we make at home. But I'm not, you know, I am I am not unfamiliar with like bad fast food or whatever. Like I've been on the road for work. I've had to, you know, grab a burger from Burger King and scarf it down and eat like pizza. For a week while I'm out reporting on the road, like I'm not unfamiliar with it. But like the food at the theme parks and not just at the theme parks, but like at the outside, there's like a city walk, which is like the area outside that that's like whatever, like it's got all the restaurants and stuff like it's all such crap that makes you feel absolutely awful. Yeah. And I feel awful now, several days after having returned. I think in large part because of that food, like it's just so disgusting. It's it's gross. And I have a feeling that a lot of like for a lot of Americans, it's like not gross. It's like it's like, yeah, it's like it's like what they eat. But like, I just can't I can't do it. I can't do it. It's it's disgusting. The only the only consolation on that front
Sonny00:21:50is the fact that you're moving so much in the park. Like there is there is like a very real like. To consume a certain number of calories just so I don't carbs stop, stop moving, which like is kind of what got me through it in the various Disney adventures. But like, yeah, no, I'm totally with you. The food is like the second thing. And I want to be careful
Mike00:22:14here. I don't want to be insensitive. I don't want to be insensitive. And I've actually thought about like I've come up with this. I've I'm going to ask this question. I actually was shocked by the number of unhealthy large people in electric wheelchairs, rascals who rascals and rascal like, you know, conveyances up just everywhere around the park, like more than I've ever seen in the real world. You know, in terms of concentrated, like just like everywhere, getting on the buses, getting on the like, you know, and they're they're zipping around and, you know, again, some of them are elderly. They're not they're not, you know, overweight. Some of them, you can see they have, you know, a boot on their foot. So this is their way of getting around, maybe a family vacation that's been long planned. But I was sort of like I kept thinking, like, what what fun is being had zipping around one of these scooters? And my answer actually to that question is actually. Of all the vacations, this is actually probably the most convenient if you are of that size and limited mobility, because everything you need is you are catered to your food, every like your transportation to and from. Like, it's a lot easier than going to the beach theme parks and cruises in Europe are
JVL00:23:57both perfect for people with mobility issues.
Sonny00:24:02Theme parks in particular, right, because they are designed like they're designed for children and you want to make it so like any child, even the most handicapped, can enjoy the park. And I do think that that kind of bleeds over into my question is how many of these people like need this in their regular life versus are using it at the park? Not not good question, gain an advantage or whatever, just because just because like otherwise they simply cannot move for the eight hours straight required, you know, I
Mike00:24:33think that's a lot of it, frankly, because because a lot of them, I mean, again, I'm not trying to be insensitive here. It's just a lot of them. You can see like when they when it's time to get up and get in line for a ride or for the train or whatever, like they do. It's not it's not as if they are bound to the chair. I think it is a it is to help get on.
JVL00:24:50I just was I was sort of she's a big struck. She's a big she's a big girl, big fat girl.
Mike00:24:57Oh, there's definitely one more observation. One more observation. One of the last rides we rode was the Fast and Furious ride, which is pretty garbage. Actually, it's where the old earthquake ride. Oh, I was thinking.
Sonny00:25:12Are you on like are you on like individual cars on this ride? Is it like no, it's just like a train.
Mike00:25:18You are in basically a party bus and on a track and the screen is all around you. And it's like you're on a bus and you're trying to escape. Is it Shaw? Yeah. Is Shaw one of the characters? No, it's definitely Shaw. Shaw is Jason Statham.
Sonny00:25:38Deckard Shaw. Deckard Shaw. Jason Statham is Deckard Shaw.
Mike00:25:41Because because somebody on your bus is a is a is a witness and they're trying to kill him, even though isn't Shaw. I don't know. I was a good guy.
Sonny00:25:53At this point in the series shot. Well, Shaw Shaw's a good guy with an edge. Though, you know, he'll still kill a witness. Sure. I don't know.
Mike00:26:01But but you're like trying to. And so you're like basically on this big ride and it's like and it's been shaken. You're also moving. And but the screen also makes it seem like you're moving and they're shooting water at you because there's an explosion. Whatever. It's kind of it's kind of dumb. But what I was struck by was in the, you know, in the queue where they're, you know, where they have to, like, keep moving you into rooms as as the as the ones and as the as the group in front of you gets through the ride, they have to, like, move you through rooms and tell you the story like they are full on using AI representations of Chris Ludacris Bridges and and what's his name? Vin Diesel, like to do like where in the past they would have, like, recorded the actual actors like they would have as part of their contract would have done some like, you know, you know, a day's worth of like reading lines into a screen telling you Hey, we got to do this. Here's the mission. It's it's very obviously AI or deep fake or whatever you want to call it. And it was it was it was a shock because we had written the E.T. ride as well. That was another favorite of my son's. And it still has the old what I remember, the old video of Steven Spielberg introducing the ride where he's like a real person. And so, like, you can obviously see that what you're watching in this Fast and Furious Q is it's like it's ludicrous.
Sonny00:27:27But it's not ludicrous. That's interesting. That is really interesting.
JVL00:27:31Luda got to get paid. And so, you know, they want to save one hundred thousand dollars. They could just do AI Luda. But what's the contract? Like, what's the what's the agreement here to use his likeness? Well, what is the probably less than hiring him to come in and shoot for a day? Right.
Sonny00:27:47Yeah. Yeah. So was it was it like was it like the people were there? But it was like, no, it was like on a TV screen. No. Yeah. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand that. I mean, like, was it like but was it like animated in real life or was it animated?
Mike00:28:04Like what was the real life? It was uncanny valley territory polar where polar express, but like slightly, but like slightly better. Right. So like it was like it was not motion capture animation, but it was also very clearly not a real person on a camera. It was again, it was uncanny. It was weird. And I that was like all I could concentrate on and think about. And yeah, it was it was it was bad. So I don't know. So those are my thoughts. I don't know if you have any other questions, but I have a question for the experience.
JVL00:28:41I have a question for both of you, because I've been thinking about the economics of choosing a theme for a park. And the obvious thing is that your theme has to have a broad appeal and a very deep appeal. And you hope an enduring appeal. Right. And so I do think it's kind of ballsy to do a Harry Potter park. Harry Potter is a property is only like 20 years old, I think. But the most dangerous thing is that the author is still alive. And so what happens if you build this? God knows how many billions of dollars it costs to build a park like this. What happens if you build it? And then J.K. Rowling decides she's in it.
Sonny00:29:27I don't think I do not think it matters. Yeah, I don't think it is. You don't think it matters. The economic viability is so popular. People have been trying to turn J.K. Rowling into a Nazi. I understand that. But what happened if like J.K. Rowling became an actual Nazi? Yeah, I don't know. I as I mean, look, here's the thing. People have been literally trying to portray her as that. And maybe, you know, I like what if what if. But people have been trying to portray her as a Nazi. As that for the last 10 years now. And it does not work. The books are still enormously popular. They're still like on the bestseller lists on Amazon. Like, I don't know, maybe maybe it's maybe it's like anything like cars like they just built. They just built this Tron ride. Right. And Disney like what if, you know, what if Jared Leto, who is in the next Tron movie, gets arrested for like underage sex, sex crimes?
Mike00:30:27Yeah. Out of the realm of possibility with Jared Leto. Like, I would say that would be much worse for Disney theoretically. But at the same time, like Tron transcends that. Yeah. There must be a totally tipping point for IP popularity where it becomes independent of. Well, like, well, I think that's true. And Harry Potter has far left point has left that that that plane. So, you know, they're building. So there's a new Universal Orlando Park that's open. In May, the epic, the epic Orlando epic resort or park or whatever, which is sort of it's like almost like a reboot of the Islands of Adventure, but it's like epic universes. And so there is a Harry Potter section in that in that park as well. And it's going to be the Ministry of Magic is the right. The conceit is in studios ticket. You had to buy right. If you want the experience, you got to buy three tickets. Totally. It's also like nowhere close to the other two parks.
JVL00:31:27Um, it's like in a different part of Orlando. Anyway, it's a, it's a whole mess. Um, that's actually, so that, that is also really interesting because like it at Disney in Disney world, uh, like there are four different parks, right? But all this, all, all like the Star Wars stuff is in Hollywood studios. Yeah. Like this feels honestly kind of predatory on the part of it. Totally. Yeah. But kind of thing. We're actually like, but they're, they're not even pretending to not make it predatory anymore. Like now it's just like, oh yeah, no, we, we
Sonny00:31:57know that, you know, and we don't care because we have your children. Right. I mean, that's, that really is how big the Harry Potter stuff is too. Like I, like it's, it is so wild because again, there's just this total disconnect between the very online who are like Harry Potter. So toxic. Now, JK Rowling is so, why would anybody be involved with this new television series? And like all the little kids in my neighborhood in Dallas are still dressing up as fucking Harry Potter for Halloween and doing talent shows.
Mike00:32:27And like, they're all reading all the books and like, I'm sorry, that shit, that shit has not escaped, uh, internet velocity. Like it is very much an online phenomenon. Totally. But, but I will say like, I was struck going through some of the other, particularly in the islands of adventure, which I never, I had never been to before. I've been to studios and it was, that was also a funny experience of being like, oh, that I know what that used to be. You know, that used to be, uh, the, uh, this is where the jaws ride was. And this was, you know, now it's a Simpsons ride, but it used to be the, uh, the back to the future ride. Um, but islands, what I was struck by is how underdeveloped the other theme, the other themed areas are, um, or how much they could. So for instance, next to Hogsmeade is Jurassic park. And it's actually, they do it. They do a not bad job of it. But all I kept thinking was this could be, this could be even a lot more in a way. Like there there's, there's one roller coaster. There's one kiddie ride, which was closed while we were there. Uh, there's one like log flume type ride. Um, they've recreated the sort of headquarters of Jurassic park, um, as a kind of play area, but then also place to use the bathroom and all this stuff. Um, and it looks great, but it's like, this could be, this could be a whole lot more. Um, I mean, that's a legit universal franchise too. Like the Jurassic series is not going anywhere. They got another one coming out. Um, and that's not, that's not a dig on. It's just like, wow, there's a lot more. That could be done. And the Harry Potter stuff is sort of the, um, it's, it almost feels like it's just, it's a gold standard in terms of, um, what can be done in a theme park. Um, I was very impressed. All, um, I will say I really don't. Everyone talked about the butter beer. Yeah. Didn't do anything for me.
Sonny00:34:20What did it taste like?
Mike00:34:22It's cream soda. It tastes like cream soda. Lame. It's very sweet. Yeah. It's very, very sweet. Um, anyway, that's, that's all. We had a great time. We really enjoyed each being with each other. And, um, and the only thing, the only thing that would have been better is if I had not been there with my son, but I had been there with my wife just by my, by ourselves. Yeah.
JVL00:34:57Yeah. We went childless and it was amazing. And the spread between the oldest and the youngest is just too big. Same. Make the theme park work for everybody. Yeah. I saw people, I saw people with like, uh, with like babies, you know, walking around the theme park and I'm like, I'm going, it's stressing me out just to watch you walking around with the baby. I can't imagine doing it. I know. I can imagine. Anyway. All right, let's move on. Sonny, anything going on with you before?
Mike00:35:26All right. Should we, should we do a quick, uh, a quick look at the box office? Well, it's Superbowl weekend, so it's the worst box office. It is. It is really bad, but dog man, which we did see by the way, while we were there, we wanted to take a break and get out of the heat. We went and saw dog man, uh, once again, number one at the box office, uh, for the second week in a row. Um, huge drop though. Right. Well, everything again, like the problem is you lose all of Sunday.
Sonny00:35:56Yeah. No parents to take the kids out to the movies is the problem. Yeah. Like nobody, nobody goes to the movies on Superbowl Sunday because the whole day is you, you getting ready for Superbowl parties and then you go to Superbowl parties. Like it's just, it's a, it's a total lost day. So like nothing. And because of that, nothing new comes out except like this weekend there was a cheap horror movie, heart eyes, and then a love hurts like a cheap action movie. So like they're just, there's, there's not much new stuff in theaters. What's that?
Mike00:36:26It was a dumping ground for me. Yeah. It's a dumping ground. Bad movies. So it's always the slowest week of the year. Then, then let's move on and talk about, uh, Saturday night live SNL 50 beyond Saturday night. And this, uh, these four documentary hour plus documentaries in this docuseries that we watched on Peacock. So we all watched different ones. Um, there were four of them. I ended up watching both the first one and the final one. Um, the first one is about the, uh, auditions and like auditioning. It's actually not, there's not much really to say. You should just watch it. If you're interested in that, you see some new, uh, audition, you know, stuff that hasn't been released before. It's kind of interesting. And listening to some of the folks talk about it. Um, I have questions for you about it though. Oh, then what's, what's your question? Cause there's not much to say, but go ahead. My question is when the auditions, are they primarily looking for people to as performers or are they looking at their material?
JVL00:37:26So there is a real hazy line between succeeding there as a writer and succeeding there as a performer and the best performers succeed because they're writing a lot of their own material, bringing, uh, bringing ideas.
Mike00:37:39So the one, so, so the, the sort of centerpiece interview in this documentary is with Michael Shoemaker, who was a long time producer there. Um, uh, sort of from like the mid nineties through like maybe 2020. 10 or so um and and frankly that's like the most number of cast members that they had were kind of from that period they had a few from the early period and a few from recently but most of it was that chunk um but his point on this was were you doing something different or doing something that they'd seen before but from a different angle it's not rocket science in that way but it's it's like it's like a it's it's both uh as i've as i found like thinking about saturday night live and what works and what doesn't in general it's like a mix of of science and art in that way right like there's a science to it um but there's also this like well it's just that thing that you know so for so there's a good example of this actually where they have there's a fun part of this documentary where they have people watching their audition tapes sometimes for the first time and they're like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna never seen it before um and so there's this kind of you get to watch them cringe at themselves and like oh you know i think at one point p davidson's like watches like a clip of him and he's like why did they hire me like this is awful um it's great so the keenan thompson interview where he's watching himself and he and they play a big clip of his uh audition of course keenan thompson is now the longest lasted i mean you know he he will be on the show until it or he dies whatever comes his audition tape i have to say is terrible and he knows it too he's watching it and he's like this is awful like he's like i did not know what i was doing this is a guy who had been on tv since
Sonny00:39:33he was a kid yeah he's been on a sketch show had been on exactly yeah like but he's describing how
Mike00:39:39he he's like this is a kid who does this is a person who doesn't know how to build a comedy performance and like present it he's like he's like there's nothing in here that's good and i'm he does like his cosby impression and he says um what was bill cosby's wife not on the show but in in real life what was her name uh uh i can't remember uh alicia rashad no not felicia rashad no bill cosby the the person's actual wife oh i don't know uh camille camille camille is camille cosby and so as he's doing this like pretty serviceable like cosby impression he says camille in a funny way he says my wife camille like he says it like in a funny way he says in a funny way and then they they cut to michael shoemaker who says when he said camille i said there's like there's something there you know so it's literally this one word in an otherwise kind of shitty audition that keenan thompson sort of was like well that was pretty good and the producer who helped hire him was like okay that was it and so it's like this thing where it's like i don't even know why it's that good but it's like they all kind of understood there was something special with that and that that was the a seed of something that would create a really great cast member and it turned out to be correct but you would not know it from the from just the raw footage can i uh can
Sonny00:41:06i can i say so i watched the episode that's about the more cowbell sketch um and there's there's a
JVL00:41:12very interesting i'm sorry i thought that was the one i was supposed to do i'm sorry well that's okay
Sonny00:41:16it's all right all right uh well the uh we didn't watch the one about the writers writers who cares yeah fuck writers writers the worst uh the anyway the uh but there there's an interesting moment in the cowbell sketch where uh or in the cowbell sketch episode where dana carvey is talking about in the first iteration of the sketch it was not a cowbell this is one of the things you learned it was a wood block and so what the thing that dana carvey keys on is that it would it if you imagine the sketch as performed by christopher walken and originally the sketch again they they they did a read through they did a table read of it and norm mcdonald was the host and they didn't do it for that episode and they came back to it a season or two later um but the uh but but what dana carvey said and what i thought was really interesting and like a very fundamental way of understanding how these people think of comedy was that imagining christopher walken say wood block is is kind of funny you could see wood block like you could see him but then but the but of cowbell are just even like there's there's it's even funnier it has a funnier rhythm to it it's it would sound funnier coming out of his his mouth and i do think that that is like it's one thing to be able to construct a joke it's one thing to be able to think this juxtaposition is funny but then once you get start getting into the performance level of it it it takes on a whole different dimension that i just like i personally appreciate but can never ever replicate at all it's like what it's like what separates really funny people from
Mike00:42:56like kind of funny people i don't know absolutely absolutely um well jvl what did you so there's not there's not much more i don't know if you have any other questions about about the the audition stuff but it's essentially it's a it's a it's a it's a spark or it's a moment um and and here's the other thing i do have one more question but continue well the other thing is that they it's testing to see and they're looking to see is this somebody who can do the show as it is so it's not just that it's funny i mean they had one of the other segments in this documentary on the auditions they have steven colbert watching his audition in which he does a bit which he later did on the dana carvey show when he was a cast member there the waiter who gets nauseated by food which is which is so funny it's a classic he and steve carell do it on the dana carvey show he did it in his audition and um it's like you watch it you're like how could how could he not have been hired and nobody really answers the question and he even is sort of like he sort of jokingly but maybe not jokingly it's like he's sitting in the studio where he hosts his own talk show you know and he's like who cares about this why didn't i get picked for saturday night live that was a good audition um and it's just this kind of ineffable sometimes they get it wrong sometimes it doesn't fit with the cast that they've already got in mind and it just is it's it's this it's a mystery so but also also though because it's totally down to
Sonny00:44:33the whims of one mad canadian like correct like lauren michaels like i i think lauren michaels is a singular figure in the history of not just comedy but television like there's nobody else who has had a show on the air for 50 years that has been his brainchild and like it really is like did you strike lauren michaels's fancy that day right like that is right like i it's it's a it's it's an interesting thing because again it's like kind of ineffable it's hard to quantify as you say like nobody denies that stephen colbert is funny he's he's obviously had a great career in comedy but like that day lauren michaels just like not for me not no
JVL00:45:21not no but here's i mean i mean i want to talk there is a sense in which this is much more like filling out a roster than drafting the best talent right in an audition yes so i wanted to ask about the do they talk about how casting is done to fill roles because they're recurring types of people there's always a funny fat guy right there's always a horatio sands or chris farley or john type there's always a utility guy who can just like you know ken Thompson is both things like ken Thompson is both an impressionist and a utility guy so he yes he becomes like both a chris parnell and a uh daryl hammond type yep so do they do they talk about that and like i'm for instance i am convinced that will forte was hired because uh they lorne knew that will ferrell would leave soon because he was getting too big and he needed another will ferrell type and will forte would be that and i think he did grow into that um is that touched on at all or no it is it's interesting
Mike00:46:33because i find that question in that that sort of concept interesting as well and fascinating they don't quite touch on the ensemble part of it it was much more focused on individual what what's it like to go through the audition process gotcha um what's it what is it like there's a little bit about how do they build the show but not in that how do we build an ensemble um you know i can't fault it for that because it's an hour long it's produced for peacock i'm sorry and you know they they do what they could it's a very interesting idea and i mean when i talk about the other episode i watched about season 11 the weird the weird season they get into a little bit of that uh in in that episode but um no the the only other fun thing from from this is the uh from the one i watched the first one about the auditions is uh they it just tells you sort of what perspective how perspective can change things they have a great kind of side-by-side moment where they talk about bill hader and andy sandberg who both auditioned on the same day at the same time and bill hader came in and he sees this guy in fact he yeah he sees this guy on the elevator on the way up with him and he it's andy sandberg and he he looks at me because gosh he's got all these like props he has all these like materials he's really prepared for this audition i'm fucked like what like what am i gonna do i i have nothing i'm just going in there with nothing and then they cut to andy sandberg being interviewed he says i'm riding up the elevator and i see bill hader and he's got nothing with him and i've got all these literal props to prop me up because that's what i need to be funny he doesn't need anything to be funny i'm i'm screwed it is very funny to hear them both that is described their same feeling about each other and of course they went on at the same time and went on to great success so it's just it's um it's it's fun to listen to them and it's fun to see the old the old clips so um should we talk about we should talk about the cowbell let's go to cowbell yeah can you do a big boy review of
Sonny00:48:42the cowbell episode the cowbell more cowbell it's so uh again it's it's kind of a audacious thing to 50 minute episode about a single sketch but i do think it helps again if this documentary series is about like how you put together a season or series or episode of snl watching the evolution of this script is really interesting because i think uh jvl you mentioned that the best performers write their material right like the many many of the best performers write their own material they have their own sketch ideas and this is one that uh will ferrell had been working on he had he had you know he had his he has his little board up with like crazy ideas and he he pulls it off one day and he writes the sketch he writes the wood block sketch um which i what what do they call it rehearsal uh recording recording session recording session yeah recording recording session so initially the show the sketch is called recording session and uh it's a wood block not a cowbell and you we go through this like the process of writing it one of the funny things is they talk about how they got they basically they got all the names of the actual members of blue oyster cult wrong they like dress them up wrong because they just had some guy in the prop department came like got got a reissue recording not even the original and was like uh this is this is who and then uh and of course the the name bruce dickinson the producer bruce dickinson who christopher walken plays bruce dickinson i'm the bruce dickinson who of course is like not like actually a big deal in the music industry but like the uh but they chose the name because
JVL00:50:18they saw the the name is a bunch of different producers and his was the fun
Sonny00:50:21his was the funniest he had the funniest he had the funniest name and he was he was the guy who put together the reissue album like the other two producers are very annoyed uh who they interview they're like he had nothing to do with this and they're also annoyed with each other because they're fighting over credit for who actually put the cowbell in there and you know that's whether or not it was a cowbell one of them says it was a cowbell one of them says it was a woodblock so it's very funny uh just watching all that but then again and i've i don't think i've ever seen like rehearsal footage like the you know the dress rehearsal right so you know snl every weekend does before a live show they do a dress rehearsal show and that's where they make the final cuts the stuff that's working stuff that's not working um they they you know keep they they they figure out what they can fit into 90 minutes and and stuff gets cut and they're always worried that these great skits are going to get cut and you watch the rehearsal footage and and the skit is fine could have gotten cut it could have very easily gotten cut because it's like it's hard i mean it's hard to watch it because we've seen the real thing and we're comparing it to that and it's like ah this is fine i guess i don't know it's kind of funny but everything that makes the everything that makes the the actual skit a classic is what was missing from the practice skit and it's little things right jvl like
JVL00:51:46yeah the size of will ferrell's shirt so will ferrell goes after the dress he goes back to props and he's like i need a smaller version of this shirt what is the smallest one you have and uh the but the other thing is if anybody who's done theater even at like you know middle school or high school level knows that there is a level of emotional energy required to performance and when you're doing something twice in a night like you know if you have a it's a dress rehearsal and then three hours later you do the live show you you do have to pace yourself and so they are in this weird place with dress where they have to go far enough to make sure their skit doesn't get cut but you can't leave it all out there for the dress because you have to have something extra and so like Christopher Walken the they talk he he is totally different from dress too and and they're sort of when he comes out on the live show he is operating a level that they then realize oh he was he was holding back saving giving us like seventy percent and so but that we're dynamic of you can't I mean you can't just go through the motions address because then you might get cut it's a genius way for Lauren to to harness everybody's anxieties and fears to create
Mike00:53:14a better product well so did they talk about because I've heard the the the people on the show talk about like they you've used the phrase never peek at dress I don't know if they they use that phrase in the in the documentary but it's like what you you know it because they've they've I've heard cast members talk about when you have the absolute best performance address you just can't you also just create
JVL00:53:37it you can't you can't recreate that moment so I mean that that's that's so fascinating
Mike00:53:42what did they talk about the breaking because it's you know Lauren is famously against breaking
JVL00:53:51yes on Saturday night live because it was so they talked a lot about okay okay Sonny
Sonny00:53:56do you want to yeah well they like Jimmy Fallon is like I you know this is my first skit this is my first line on the show I'm gonna you know I'm gonna I'm gonna nail it people are gonna remember me because I'm banging the sticks in the background I'm gonna do that I'm gonna beat out the time and of course like in the dress rehearsal he fucks it up he like starts hitting the time at the wrong time but then in the in the you know in the just breaks all over the place it's just laughing like Will Ferrell is also laughing but you can't really see it because he's got that big they say because he's beard the beard he's yeah he's a little bit yes he's like the beard keeps me from being and he was like I was trying to get Chris Parnell to break but he's such a pro he's got ice in his veins I was getting right up in his face with that cowbell call me ice man on cast they called him the ice man so uh and then there's there's a there's a funny little there's they show a shot of you could see Christopher Walken in the like recording studio part of the set it's like behind him just cracking up back there like very briefly like just in the like through through the dark glass you can see him cracking up back there because it's so funny uh but no I like I I could not I could not imagine what it must have been like to work with Will Ferrell on a regular basis like that because he the amount of like him causing other people to break ratio has to be through if you're doing a you know breaking
JVL00:55:21ratio his his bar is very high his commitment I mean I've always thought the funniest thing about Will Ferrell is his level of commitment he goes all in in ways that almost nobody else I think in in comedy has me I'm sure there are like a couple other people but he's then that the perfect example is him leaning and looming over Parnell with the cowbell on the the third take of it and just his his whole body is sort of becoming concave on top of it and it's like a site gag because Parnell is so little and par now I mean and the other thing is Parnell needs to get so much credit because half of the skit is one half a third of the skit is funny because of him and because of his level of like slow burn frustration right and that if he breaks if he breaks there it lets all of the air out of it right it's funny because he's genuinely slow burning and his refusal to break you can tell is then what fuels Will Ferrell's kicking out and knocking over the mic like the whole thing just becomes funny because of because of the level of commitment he has and the level of commitment Parnell
Mike00:56:41has not breaking out well don't you think that will Ferrell also has a I mean he has a stage intelligence is the only way I can describe it as sort of an understanding and I think all the most successful people on this show do an understanding that right you're you're playing to a live audience in the studio you're playing to that the audience on TV who is watching this which is different right it's a different kind of way to play to that you've got to balance that you're also sort of playing to your other cast member yeah audience yep and and and it's all like a mix that the greats are understand all of it and and can and can and and can sort of react properly and get the right you know the right volume of their voice or the right beat a comic beat and that's what will ferrell sort of superpower was is he like he had an intelligence of all of those things in those moments the comedy equivalent of cork vision yes that's a good way
JVL00:57:51of putting a good way of putting him yeah can I can I there's just one thing I because I want to get to to Mike's I don't know Sonny if you do have anything else because I had
Sonny00:57:59like two things I'd wanted to mention the only the only other thing that I was wondering I like I don't did you guys see this get live Mike you were probably too young I or I think
Mike00:58:09I live I if I didn't see it live I saw it on a you know when NBC would run the replays over the summer yeah yeah it was like what it was like it was either live or like
Sonny00:58:21got a replay so I like this this 20 that so that was in the 25th season which was 2000 which was like I was like 17 to 18 right this is like the ideal time to be watching there's a joke that like the best cast of SNL is always the one that was when you were you know the senior in high school and this is it for me this is this is it and like I remember seeing that skit and it was the funniest fucking thing I'd ever seen like just rolling on the chair basements you know and like coming and like I don't this may all be apocryphal in my head whatever but like coming to school the next day and being like more cowbell you know I got a fever okay and like there was there's an interesting thing in the documentary where they're like it didn't catch on at first it wasn't until a couple years later when the best of Will Ferrell episode came out that it was everywhere I just like I don't think that was right but maybe it was and I don't know and it's hard also because I it's hard to remember a time before YouTube and video constant video on the internet where these clips were everywhere all the time so like I always had this sense that this was an instant classic that people were like constantly repeating it and you know but maybe not I don't know was that was that your sense JBL I don't know yeah but I also don't trust my
JVL00:59:42memory like in my memory I saw it live 25 years maybe I maybe I didn't like maybe this is like oh yeah I was watching the Challenger. When it blew you know like maybe like I I don't know right could be you know my I wonder
Mike00:59:56in a mass delusion I I I do wonder I mean like we're all deluded in different ways on these things and the the internet has a way as well of acting as if something wasn't a thing until the internet found it yes um yeah and and so I do wonder if because I remember Cal like I remember Cal Bell before YouTube like of course like it was yeah obviously existed before YouTube before you could watch videos online and I remember when people rediscovered it about five years later and and thinking as like a uh I was like a teenager college student uh sort of like well yeah I remember when that happened it was hilarious and I'm glad people recognize that it's still hilarious so I I do think the internet it works the other way as well where the internet's like nothing is nothing is uh everything is new to the internet so.
JVL01:00:51Just very quickly uh JVL uh it is disconcerting seeing how time is turning us all into monsters um is something wrong with Daryl Hammond is he sick?
Mike01:01:02Yes no no Daryl is I mean Daryl's uh an addict um I I recommend his his autobiography. He is? By the way um yes he was an addict on the show.
Guest01:01:13Are you thinking Chris Kattan?
JVL01:01:15Oh Chris Kattan also looks horrible and sounds horrible.
Sonny01:01:18Chris Kattan had like cancer or something Chris Kattan had like.
JVL01:01:21Daryl Hammond is like in a in a hat and I would say unrecognizable.
Mike01:01:26Well Daryl Hammond was was an addict while he was on the show like there were moments on the show so his his his autobiography it's um which is titled um I think it's something like God if you're there I'm I'm fucked or something like that.
JVL01:01:40Yeah something like that no if you're not there I'm fucked or something like that.
Mike01:01:43That's what it is if you're not there I'm fucked um it's uh I mean he is he was an addict he there were moments where like live on the show they basically like like propped him up sent him out there to say his lines and he would come like he was like cutting himself you know in his dressing room kind of thing and and and he had I mean there was some it was some rough he's very open about all this and like I'm a screw up um but like Lorne Michaels took care of me he still works at the show he's the announcer now since Don Pardo left um but yeah he's he's had a rough life. Yeah well.
Sonny01:02:21Chris Kattan uh Chris Kattan like broke his neck he like had on the show he broke his neck on the show and like and like that's why I like his voice is just so weird now like it's you know kind of high pitched and strained and I think I assume it's because of that.
JVL01:02:34Well it was tough but the most so Dave Grohl is is in this episode and Dave Grohl's in it I believe because Foo Fighters was the musical guest. Correct. And he is. Foo Fighters. Maybe not surprisingly the most thoughtful and maybe. The most interesting person in to have any comments on this like he's just great to listen to and uh there is a section where they talk about how Christopher Walken is no kayfabe like hates this thing because you know the cowbell has become the only thing that he's remembered for and the the interviewer says to Grohl is telling him about how you know he wouldn't come on the he wouldn't come on the documentary to talk about it and Grohl says that and he almost swallows it he's like oh it's his teen spirit yeah and I just fucking lost it that's oh I lost it at that because Grohl said it in such a way that it it wasn't
Sonny01:03:39even a bit you know no it was so genuine it's just it's at the front of his mind all the time which is crazy too because like Foo Fighters has been around for four times as long as
JVL01:03:51Madonna ever was I mean like you know maybe longer like an amazing fucking track teen
Sonny01:03:56spirit is teen spirit is an amazing I mean it's all by the way anyway all of that just
Mike01:04:00that just I died total aside by the way about smells like teen spirit have you ever heard Dave Grohl talk about the drums and how he came up with the beat for that for that song so he was talking with a kind of a black funk drummer from the late 70s about this and he like you know like that's just disco I was just doing disco drums and like all of all of the sort of black disco and funk drummers like know that about him and know that he was doing that but if you listen it's all four on the floor it's like did it did it did it did it did it it's all exactly what would be on a funk record and he's like that's my secret like it's it's grunge it's like angry white boy music but it's disco so anyway that's very cool all right that's all I had on so uh the final episode of this docu-series is called the weird year and it is about season 11 and I was sort of interested all year no no so uh so this is this is about Lorne Michael's first year back as executive producer of Saturday Night Live so he starts the show in 1975 he has a five year run and you know the cast Chevy Chase Dan Aykroyd John Belushi later Bill Murray but then and Garrett Morris and Jane Curtin and Lorraine Newman they all leave over the years Lorne Michaels leaves after the fifth season Gene Domanian takes over it's a disastrous six year but they hire this young stand-up comic named Eddie Murphy who comes in saves the show Gene Domanian leaves because she was a terrible producer they bring in Dick Ebersole to take over and he has the final run through season 10 Eddie Murphy Joe Piscopo they leave um you have people like uh Jim Belushi comes in uh Julia Louis-Dreyfus um and and the rest and then you have season 10 which was sort of a murderer's row brought in Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Jim Belushi are still there but then it's like um you had one year contracts for Christopher Guest and Harry Shearer and Billy Crystal and Martin Short and uh Rich Hall and anyway so that ends and they bring back for season 11 Lorne Michaels it's his return to the show that he started and so this episode is about that season and the episode of the uh of the documentary it's interesting it opens actually with the first moments of season 12 the next season and it's Madonna who was the host of the first episode of season 11 she's in the cold open of the first episode of season 12 and she reads a statement from ABC in which she says uh I'm going to read this statement for you um last season was all a dream and all it was all a terrible horrible dream and it never happened and then then then the show and the show goes on so it's the weird year because Lorne Michaels is back he's trying to rebuild his legacy and he does it in a way that just absolutely doesn't work and yet the documentary makes the case pretty convincingly I think that like the seeds of the longevity of the show are sown in this weird season that doesn't work but kind of almost could work um and it's a great look at how like creative minds sort of have to figure out like how something works by seeing how it doesn't work if that makes sense interesting yes so it sounds like it's a yes yeah it is a great episode highly recommend just to give you an idea of what this cast is like um you've got um they actually show the building of the cast and it's it's really interesting randy quaid random it's so weird randy quaid uh sort of the anchor of this cast they bring in um uh dennis miller john lovitz nora dunn okay those are three the three who survive by the way uh into the next season then you have um uh joan cusack like she's like a young unknown actress at this point uh terry sweeney who is an out gay very sort of flamboyantly gay uh comedian uh denitra vance who is a comedian who's like working at a at a department store uh at the time in new york and they just like kind of pluck her out of
JVL01:08:50anthony michael hall and robert downey jr i had forgotten that robert downey jr did here on
Mike01:08:58saturday night live yeah and they're like they're like 19 years old i think anthony michael was like 17 years old at the time um and i think that's it for the cast it might be one oh oh and damon waynes damon waynes um a great stand-up comic it's a weird cast it doesn't make any sense like they they make they establish early on the episode there was no gelling of this cast at all they are just all awkward and weird together and they have no internal chemistry the writers who they bring back to really like produce it are jim downey al franken and tom davis so like those are some original cast uh original uh cast writers uh who are brought back to produce it and what they what's interesting is lauren michaels kind of takes a back seat he's like playing impresario for this show but not like active for the very first half of the season and it's a it's all a disaster and it just walks through how bad it was it's like the second episode to save it like the first episode was so bad so they think oh the second episode the host will be chevy chase and he'll be a reassuring presence for the show and of course he's like a total asshole to everybody and it's a disaster as well yeah and meanwhile like nobody's popping the writers don't know what they're doing for the for the cast the the the first person to pop is not surprisingly john lovitz with his pathological liar tommy flanagan and like the and it's like all the seeds are there right it's like a catch phrase uh that they kind of run into the ground but it's like a guy who's very good on tv at like projecting uh funny and between that and dennis miller doing the the news the update it's like those are the kind of the only bright spots and it just goes through the season and shows you like it was a lot of the the crew and the writers like almost like testing out their you know getting their muscle memory back on how to make a comedy show um and lauren michaels realizing and basically being slapped across the face by brandon tardikoff the head of nbc at the time like you have to take control of this show if you want this show to survive you have to be the one making the decisions and so the whole like lauren michaels is really in charge begins in this season because of how badly it was going um and it's just it's fascinating to see a bad season and then
Sonny01:11:30figuring this kind of stuff yeah what one thing that's interesting about this that i don't think you mentioned was that two of the writers i think three of the writers but two of the writers who i'm more familiar with are john schwartzwelder and george meyer who would go on to be like the heart of the first 12 seasons of the simpsons like correct schwartzwelder had like 60 uh screenwriting credits for the or teleplay credits or whatever for the simpsons um george meyer was like the producer of the show for for a long time uh like that that crew there but they could not make it work for snl like or at least in this in this season al franken is
Mike01:12:09interviewed and he has a great memory of at some point during the show of george meyer who's also interviewed in the show he said that george meyer was like walking around at one point during the with his pulling his hair out and going show dying show dying um the other writer who i didn't mention that this is who's hired in this in the first year uh in this season 11 uh is uh robert smichel who everybody associated with saturday night live has said is the single greatest sketch writer in the history of the show and so this is his first season he has a lot of interesting say in this documentary as well about learning about what works from like people who had done it before but also from people like it's interesting for the guy who's like the best edit to sort of work through his formative year in in like figuring out how to do it and the failure and learning from that it's all very fascinating the season is weird like weird but you could also see all the things and they figure it out and i won't spoil it if you want to watch it but like the end of the season is basically lorne michaels um giving a big like middle finger to the season itself and kind of to the cast he's kind of uh he's kind of a jerk about it all but it was like necessary to make it work so he's dr evil yes he is dr evil um but no it's it's great to see like uh uh john love like john you know the the the thing that i was missing is like there is no there are no interviews with uh with dennis miller who i think is an integral part of this season and the and the era that follows which i believe is the absolute best era of the show um 80s 86 to 93 is the best um and that's just a shame i don't know why he wasn't interviewed for it maybe he didn't want to be i don't know but um it's it's it's it's it's terrific um tom hanks is interviewed for it because he hosted for the first time in the season and um definitely worth a watch yeah all right all right any any any final thoughts on saturday night live we've got a long time long show we could do
Sonny01:14:3315 more minutes make it a full 90 minute uh you know like an snl episode maybe i can splice i'll
Mike01:14:39splice in two musical acts there we go okay that is all the time we are going to give to this episode uh join us over at subbeacon.com tell your friends and family who wouldn't love this show uh and we'll talk to you next time
Sonny01:14:52all right all right wait a long episode we got sorry guys i think we got it's happened when we watch four episodes of a show i know or well yeah i i want to go back i do want to watch uh i want
Mike01:15:11to watch the auditions one because i always i find that fascinating that whole process it's it's it's watch themselves and and cringe like there's something i enjoy about that and they're it's it's it's endearing and and humbling in a way um but they kind of lose me there's a couple of them who start crying because they can't believe keep it together how lucky they are yeah and i was like
Sonny01:15:38it's disgusting disgusting emotional display shut up shut your shut your cry holes i'm sure it's fine
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