#289. 'Severance' Midway Bonus!
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This is a rare bonus episode, with JVL sitting out entirely (Sonny notes he doesn't keep up with episodic TV) while Mike and Sonny dig into the first half of season two of Severance, which both agree is firing on all cylinders. Skipping the usual opening banter, they dive straight into a spoiler-filled breakdown through episode four, marveling at how the show uses visual and audio cues (the elevator ding, subtly different acting for innies versus outies) to keep viewers oriented even as it splits its cast into innie and outie identities. They dwell at length on the big reveal that Helly R. has actually been Helena Eagan in disguise, on Irv's waterboarding-interrogation unmasking of her and the "loss of innocence" that follows, on the fraught reunion between Dylan and his outie's wife, and on Mark's arc toward wanting to reintegrate with his innie self, reading a lot of the season as being about severed people being fundamentally unwhole and children-like versions of themselves. Both hosts single out Tramell Tillman's Mr. Milchick as the MVP performance of the show, especially his deadpan "tallest waterfall on the planet" line and his forced cheerfulness around Natalie and the board, and they spend a chunk of time speculating on Helena's possible pregnancy and the mystery of Miss Wong. They close by praising Ben Stiller's direction and the show's relentless pacing compared to other prestige dramas that let episodes coast, then sign off pointing listeners to subbeacon.com for new full episodes every Friday.
From the show notes
The rarest of things: A bonus episode! Mike and Sonny are here to discuss the first half of the second season of Severance , a very good show. Hope you enjoy!
Full transcript
Mike00:00:00Mr. Milchak.
Guest00:00:02This is the tallest waterfall on the planet. You have followed the path of Kier and Dieter and reached Woe's Hollow. You stand upon sacred earth.
Mike00:00:17We're starving, Mr. Milchak.
Guest00:00:20Are you? I thought the waterfall's grandeur would satiate you. I'm teasing, of course. Lumen will always protect and provide.
Mike00:00:43Welcome to the Sub-Beacon bonus episode.
Sonny00:00:47Bonus episode!
Mike00:00:48We haven't had one of these in a while, Sonny. I'm your co-host, Mike Warren. My fellow co-host, Sonny Bunch. We are going to be talking about Severance, which is why JVL is not here. Yeah, JVL's not.
Sonny00:00:59JVL's not keeping up with the show. He does not watch episodic TV.
Mike00:01:03But this show is appointment viewing for me and my wife. I wasn't able to watch it on Friday last, so we watched it on Saturday. But we organize our weekends around when are we going to watch Severance so we can watch it and talk about it. And now you and I are going to talk about it. So we're halfway through season two of this weird, wild show. What do we need to, like, give any kind of summary, Sonny?
Sonny00:01:31I think I think we'll just throw a spoiler warning out there. We're going to be talking about everything that's happened through through episode four. So if you're if you're not caught up, you're watching, but you're not caught up or you're not sure if you want to watch. I would recommend holding off, holding off. But hopefully everybody's watching the show because it's very good. I don't know. Do we need to give a summary? What's so the the the first two episodes, the first one? The first episode back takes place entirely in the Lumen office with all the innies. A second episode takes place entirely outside of the office with all the Audis.
Mike00:02:07The third picks up right where right where it's right where the last season started. Right, right. Right, right. Yeah.
Sonny00:02:13So both both. Yeah. Anyway, the third episode is kind of more of a traditional episode where they're, you know, kind of going in and out. And, you know, we're we're catching up with all the different things that are going on. And then this one. This fourth episode was really interesting. And it's it's so fun. So it to put it in in context, it takes place entirely outside, but it's all the innies, you know, operating on the overtime contingency or whatever. Right there. It's all the innies. They're all outside. They're on a retreat, a team building exercise that has been put together by Lumen to, you know, both both help them because they want to go outside. They want to go. They've they've said they want to go outside. They want to experience the world, which, you know, is again, it's a weird thing to think about, you know, what is the name of entirely under flu? What is it?
Mike00:03:08It's you know, it's an orc bow. Isn't what is what is it?
Sonny00:03:11The name work bow or something like that.
Mike00:03:13Yeah. So it's like it's somewhat of these work bow.
Sonny00:03:15I don't know.
Mike00:03:17Anagram for robot clue.
Sonny00:03:19Go ahead. But I but what was interesting, what was really interesting about this episode was I heard from a bunch of people who were like, I was so confused. This whole episode and it's interesting because I am I'm never confused by what's happening on the show in terms of like where like who they are, what what they're doing, et cetera, et cetera. So people are like, I don't understand. They're all outside. How can the enemies be but like they're the show does an incredibly good job of using visual and auditory clues to let you know exactly what happening like so right at the beginning of the episode. You hear the elevator ding, right? Did you notice that? Yeah.
Mike00:04:01Oh, that's the first thing I noticed.
Sonny00:04:03Yeah, but they're outside but but the the Adam Scott character is outside and the Haley are characters outside. They're all outside you but hearing that ding lets you know that this is these are all the any characters even before any of them say anything even before any of them like you just you you should know you should know that this is what's going on.
Mike00:04:26No question about this. So because it opens with it opens on herb. It opens on John's character and the the ding and the look on his face. I mean, it's an achievement of these actors. I think that their innies and their outies look different even when they are wearing the exact same clothes and their hair in the exact same style like the amount of acting that their faces do to distinguish between their innies and their outies. For somebody who's watched the entire show, it's yes, there's the there's the audio clue, but I know exactly what who I'm watching in that in that moment and that's that's an achievement. And so I don't yeah, I don't understand how people can be confused.
Sonny00:05:10Yeah, but so anyway, I mean look the show is like it does have the whole puzzle box element to it. You know, why is there a dead seal in this place? You know, it's there, but like the everything is so is so perfectly calibrated. And that includes the surprises and the reveals right? So the big reveal in this episode was that Haley are is actually Helena. She's been secretly going to the you know, she's not her any self. It's her Audi self the whole time. She's the Audi Helena sleeps with Mark in this episode. And that's you know, it's sexual assault we could talk about the ethics of that. We could talk about the ethics of that because I think it is it is interesting to again think about but the but the but and like also what are the ethics of like if you if Irv kills Helena in an attempt to bring back kills are like what is you know? Anyway, so there's but the big reveal here is Irv who has known that Helena is there. I think pretty much from the start of the season as he says as he says in this episode Haley was never cruel and Helena is really yes Helena is frequently quite cutting in her behavior. The big reveal here is he essentially waterboards her into giving up that that she is who she is not who she has been pretending to be even though they are all the same people and again this gets into interesting theory of the mind stuff, but they are very different. They're totally they have these totally different. Different identities and and lives and this is the big thing about this season. I think that is revealing itself is how important it is to lumen and possibly also to the innies themselves to keep those lives separate and not not mix. I like I don't know. I think there's something I think there's something terrifying and like there is something terrifying and purgatory like about the idea of being an innie who never gets to leave that office space who exists entirely in a state of perpetual awake awokenness under the fluorescent lights and the drop ceiling and the white hallways but also if we are to start treating them as separate people like how does that even work in in the outside real world like how would you split time like that I guy you would essentially have like legit real split personality I think it doesn't really exist except in the movies but like this would be like a real two people in the same body situation and I like don't
Mike00:08:09know how you would manage that I mean the show the reason I think the show one of the many reasons the show is so good is because it it raises these kinds of questions and doesn't have necessarily or what doesn't yet have clean answers for them but to your point what I think is interesting is it is it is in the innie's interest as you said to keep these separate because the innie's feel or think or believe that if they are not kept separate than they're they do they stop existing which is true in the in the context of the show but it's interesting that it's the outie mark who is as we learned in episode 3 who is trying to be reintegrated who's trying to sort of come merge back with his any self I mean there's something I'm not willing to commit to this theory but there's something brewing about a conflict between the innie's and the outie's of the right sides of these same people like directly in a way that is like it just opens itself up for lots of interesting kind of creative paths but you know we've we've sort of seen how the innie's have a very childlike perspective you know like the things that that are appealing to them the little doohickeys that they win for good behavior at work and all this time there is all there's just a lot of but they are they're just very sort of immature and stunted in that way and there is a there's something in there I think I don't know what you feel about the sunny there's something in there about childhood and what how children seek out protection or almost imprisonment in a way that is safe and comforting for them and yet when they get some kind of a taste of the outside world or a sense of what the outside world is but there's a there's something that pulls them in that direction I don't know this it's yes there's interesting things about identity going
Sonny00:10:31on here with oh totally sorry I like it's by far the most interesting thing about the show and you're right I think there is there is a brewing there is a brewing discord amongst the the the individuals against themselves right so right so you know Helena obviously resents Haley are and how like how she has found love in this bizarre situation she's clearly like in some sort of weird loveless you know she's an Egan she's kind of above it all and like wants that sort of personal connection and tries to steal it essentially like I think her her seduction of mark is not I think strictly speaking a you know a power moves against mark so much as it is a power move against Haley does that make sense like totally I think I think that's I think that's what's going on there with with um oh what's his name Zach cherry his daughter Dylan with Dylan the the the conflict is between like any Dylan considers himself to be this awesome winner it's like I'm a winner I get all the I get all the prizes I get all the you know I get all the awards I'm the best at this and then he's confronted with the fact that his out he's a loser he can't keep a job he his his wife like it's it's the interaction in the third episode between Dylan and Dylan G and like real Dylan's wife is really interesting because he's very clearly disappointed in his Audi self like he he is correct and he's
Mike00:12:17like he's he's ashamed and and you know she is sort of intrigued or excited almost to meet this any Dylan like there's a there's something of the man she married that lives in this and it's it's disconcerting to her because it's not who she goes home to it later in the episode right she sees at least right on the couch seven to remind him to do all the things he doesn't have a job but there is a and I say excited it's like you know it's like she's remembering a part of the person that she loves that she hasn't seen in a while and that's what it gets to like these innies are are they are their part of their out is like it's like it is they are one person and they have been split they've been severed and that's unnatural right that like that's not that they are not they are not whole the outies are not whole and the outies have a I think outie mark has a sense that he needs to be made whole I think he's driven by than what the need to see his wife again he knows that she's alive and he wants to see her he wants to find the answers but I think it's all like what he's really he's he is not whole since she died a part of him died right and and like he's like chosen to sever more of him but it's it's it's not right it's not natural he needs to be it needs to be brought back together I think the Dylan G's wife seeing him down here and a kind of a glimmer of his old self his full self and that doesn't sit right with her either I I've been thinking about Irv and the end of Irv's arc in this in this fourth episode and there's something about there is a loss of innocence that Irv experiences by discovering Helly are as Helena and and his is sort of his death of his little kind of of his any of any Irv is a kind of there's there's something about growing up there's something about like adolescence and again I'm like obsessed with this child thing like they are children underneath here and like he he is leaving childhood behind in a in the way that teenagers often leave childhood behind and I kind of there's an anger there's a knowledge like right like he's sort of gained this knowledge and is remember he is like obsessed and committed to the Egan philosophy more than any of them and there's a kind of loss of that innocence as well that I just just this show is working a lot of levels sunny and I I just think it's really cool I'm afraid that it is a lost style you know mystery box that will be
Sonny00:15:26frustrating at the end but so far yeah well I mean even but the same thing was true with lost right you were unraveling what these what the these people were actually going through and like what their what their what their mental state was was always more important than the island itself right like that was that was like I don't know I know I just think it's I think it's really I think it's I think it's again just immaculately crafted and this is why I I keep getting frustrated by people who are like I'm so confused I don't understand what's going on well there's going to be some confusion like it's not it's not sitting there and holding your hand through the whole thing but the the show is so immaculately crafted that you should never be unsure of where you are at any given point in terms of geography or you know you know or who who the characters are and I we haven't even mentioned mr. milk check the shambolic Rube mr. milk shake who who is I think I think he is putting on the the best performance on this this show Trammell Tillman is is just absolutely killing it every week because he is also he is forced to walk a different kind of balance than the other actors the other actors have like any any character out a character and there's you know there's similarities and there's differences but like they they are two strict different things mr. milk track is essentially always on and there are these moments where you see it kind of cracking through that he is like so for instance in the third episode he is gifted with Egan's journey but Egan has blackface on it's like Egan it's like black black version of Keir Egan and he gets all of these lithographs and they're very nice they're very well made they're very they're suitable for framing as Natalie says but she she also gives him a look like you need to say that these are nice things so the board can hear you say that they are nice things and the look on his face is just priceless and again this is just really good work by Tillman and I and I I love watching him try to struggle through being a cog in the system and also kind of a true believer I think I think he seems to be another true believer of the whole Egan philosophy but also realizing that these people are completely deranged and have no idea what's actually good for him or for anybody else it's just it again it's it's really it's really wonderful work and I'm and he's doing he
Mike00:18:11in doing that he has I think some of the the funniest moments the funnest lines like it's certainly in this fourth episode right like like I could not stop laughing when they're hiking and he meets them and he says this is the tallest waterfall on the planet and like first of all that sentence is just in and of itself absurd yeah it's also like the shot then the turn the shot of the waterfall it's so incredibly unimpressive it's like you know it's like it's so the absurdities are stack up on each other and between that and you know it's his anger about the marshmallow you know with the with the marshmallows you know marshmallows are
Sonny00:19:05for team players Dylan like team players I mean it's it's it's such a it's such a well-written show yes it's it's such a well-written show he they do give it and they do give him the best lines too I like I like him so much more than I just enjoy watching him so much more than what's-her-name miss miss miss Kovac yeah I just I think he's I think he's so much better but also I think that I like here's the other thing is I think he is breaking the system he is like his I think he genuinely wants the innies to be happy right I think that I think that is actually a thing that mr. Milchik wants but I think the his desire for their happiness and the way he is going about it is going to actually break all of them irrevocably like I think it is I think this is I think taking them out of the you know look again I would not want to live my whole life in office you know building complex and never sleep and never see the real world at the same time once you start once you let once you let you know once you let them see gay Paris how are they supposed to go back to the countryside like I think I think it's I think it's like I just think it's I think it's very likely to destroy the whole the whole thing that they're working on although who knows who knows what they're actually working on the other thing about the tallest waterfall on the planet line it is an interesting line because he says the tallest waterfall on the planet he doesn't say the tallest waterfall on earth yes I want I'm just throwing this out there think about it
Mike00:20:44what all right so well since we're in this mode sunny so we're maybe they're not on earth some other theories so do you believe after sexy time in the tent that Helena is now pregnant with little baby cure that we see in the opening opening credits sure yes sure yeah oh yeah yeah she's pregnant she's preggers okay what is the deal with miss Wong what what is your theory
Sonny00:21:14about miss Wong okay because I'm not gonna speculate you're not gonna speculate I don't know come on I don't know why there's a small Asian child running around this this apartment or this by the way this department's office
Mike00:21:28complex I don't know I by the way I love how like the quest like the characters on the show keep asking that question like why are you a child which is great and then her response I think in the first episode right was like because of when I was born but no it raises like it that her presence there right so she's either severed which is insane or she's unsevered in which like what she's a clone she a clone of Miss Casey who can say all right okay well any other thoughts on this first half or we're halfway through right the first half of this season of severance Bravo Ben Stiller like he's
Sonny00:22:13done he's done a fantastic job I think yeah I mean I just again I think the show looks great it sounds great great performances it's it is the I would this this episode of television the fourth episode really is one of the best episodes of TV I can remember watching not just because of you know the surprises of the twists and turns but just like the that I I will say that like every if it feels like every episode could be the penultimate episode of any season you know like does that mean like this is like the in the way
Mike00:22:48that HBO shows like the penultimate episode is always the where everything
Sonny00:22:54comes to a head yeah and I like I I have to I have to admire that sort of pace and relentlessness for because a lot of time you watch a lot of shows and stuff does not happen on them correct and this is not a show it's not a show like that even prestige even
Mike00:23:11prestige TV shows like there's there can feels like there's a lot of padding being put in and yeah so far everything feels deliberate yeah so all right well that is all the time we're gonna give to this bonus episode remember to go to sub beacon comm tell your friends and family new full episodes every Friday morning and we'll talk to you next time
?00:23:36you
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