#286. 'Severance' (AppleTV+)
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This is a TV-recap episode built around the premiere of Severance season two, so there are no Quadrant grades — instead the trio dig into the show itself, with Sonny walking through the innie/outie premise, Mark's grief-driven decision to sever, and where the finale left Helly/Helena, while Mike praises the show's mid-century office production design and its satire of corporate culture, and JVL — who openly admits he doesn't watch serialized TV — says the few episodes he's seen struck him as tonally whipsawing between comedy and real bleakness, though he's glad everyone else loves it. The conversation spins off into an extended, admiring appreciation of Ben Stiller as director/star, tracing his career from the Ben Stiller Show through Tropic Thunder, Zoolander, Dodgeball, The Royal Tenenbaums, and his cameo on Extras, with the hosts arguing he sneaks sharp social commentary into broad comedy, before Sonny and Mike each offer half-serious predictions about where the "innie nesting doll" mystery and the Lumon/Kier cult mythology are headed. As usual the movie/show talk doesn't start until well into the episode: the opening third is dominated by a long, deeply nerdy JVL monologue on jigsaw-puzzle brands, cut quality, and puzzle tables, Sonny's grim account of a night spent violently vomiting from food poisoning, and Mike's saga of nearly having his family's Universal Studios trip ruined when he discovered the Hogwarts Express ride would be shut for maintenance during his visit. A short box-office segment covers One of Them Days topping the MLK-weekend chart and Wolfman underperforming, which sends Sonny into a detour on Universal's failed "Dark Universe" monster-movie franchise and its infamous cursed group photo of Tom Cruise, Russell Crowe, and company. The episode closes on Sonny's recurring riff defending Robert Downey Jr.'s Tropic Thunder blackface performance against periodic online outrage.
From the show notes
Don't be a shambolic rube. Watch Severance.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00What you all did was one of the most painful moments in the history of this company, but the four of you have become known as the face of severance reform.
Sonny00:00:18Okay, so we're not in trouble. I don't think so. Milchick said we're famous. All of us equally or one of us is like the star.
Mike00:00:30Welcome to the Sub-Beacon podcast. I'm your co-host, Mike Warren. I'm joined as always by my two co-hosts who, in the words of Keira Egan, let not weakness live in their veins, but instead drown it inside them. Rise up from their deathbeds and sally forth more perfect for the struggle. Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at Sub-Beacon dot com. You like that, Sonny? Good.
Sonny00:01:00I'm cracking up at the look on JBL's face, who I would be willing to bet has watched zero seconds of Severance. Is that right, JBL?
JVL00:01:11No comment. You know, Senator, I don't I don't I can't comment on hypothetical questions, Senator. We're looking forward, not backward.
Mike00:01:21We'll go to Sub-Beacon dot com to get new episodes. You can only listen to new episodes at Sub-Beacon dot com. Tell your friends, tell your family. To sign up and become a patron there, you can join the conversation in the comments. Always a lively discussion only at Sub-Beacon dot com. We are going to be talking about Severance season two, episode one and other Severance things and other Ben Stiller things later on in the show. But first, JBL, talk to us, baby.
JVL00:01:53Are either of you guys puzzle families?
Sonny00:01:57You mean like like. Jigsaw puzzle?
JVL00:02:01Yeah. Yeah.
Sonny00:02:03We have occasionally done jigsaw puzzles. My wife, my wife is much more into jigsaw puzzles than I am. The kids kind of get into it, too. But what usually happens is she throws all the pieces on the table. The kids do it for like three minutes and then she does the rest of it. I'm not a puzzle guy. I like to swoop in. My favorite thing to do is swoop in at the last minute and put like one one of the last ten pieces.
Mike00:02:22And I'm like, oh, yeah, we're we do puzzles occasionally. I grew up doing puzzles with. Like like grandparents houses and usually like around Christmas, we'll do like a Christmas puzzle that will sort of be out for the duration and people will will engage. We're really into like with the toddler. We're into the the wood puzzles again.
JVL00:02:48So like, oh, yeah, our big thing.
Mike00:02:50So what about what about puzzles?
JVL00:02:52So I, you know, as a kid, I hated puzzles and it struck me as the most useless thing in the world. Like running on a treadmill. Like why? Why would you create something to take it apart to then spend time putting it back together? It's like the definition of insanity and how to get through this life somehow. And yet, gee, money got really into puzzles like three years ago, I think, like as a five year old. And so we all just started doing them with him. And we're now like we're now one of those families that has an entire bookcase full of puzzles. We go to puzzle stores. I have very strong thoughts about puzzle brands. Oh, yeah. And when I get a poorly made puzzle, like as a gift for some from somebody who just like doesn't know anything about puzzles. And it's like, oh, I thought I'd get you this thing. Judge target.
Mike00:03:56I totally judge them.
JVL00:03:58Yeah.
Mike00:03:58And question. Yes. Question. Give me some of your hallmarks of a. Well, let's start with this hallmarks of a poorly made or designed puzzle besides just being cheap.
JVL00:04:13So, for instance, the pieces will be very thin. They will be cut in such a way that multiple that it is very easy to make a wrong match. So you can put a piece, put two pieces together. And they'll basically fit like ninety nine percent instead of there being like no clear near matches. Right. Another thing is that on the picture side, it will be a very glossy finish so that in the lights, you know, your overhead lighting, it will actually be hard to see. You want like a very matted finish on the puzzle. And there won't be any sound or. Feel there won't be any tactile feedback when you make a match. And so when you get a good like a Ravensburger puzzle, you will feel that little click. It's it's almost like a haptic on your phone. Yes. Right. The feedback of like, yes, this is a click. This click means that this this matches in place. And I can we've worked up now, you know, when we first started out, I was like, oh, 250 piece puzzles are great. And five piece puzzles are great. We now knock. We now knock out thousand piece puzzles in typically two days. And I don't want to become a 2000 piece person because those puzzles are enormous. I feel like a thousand is about a good, good size for us. But it is. I can't even. I just get satisfaction from doing it now. And, you know, you sit around and it's like you're imposing order on the universe in this life. There's so little we can control. But we. We can control making the fucking entropy disappear in this puzzle, Matt. Right. And especially with a good white mountain. We did a white mountain puzzle last night. White mountain makes good puzzles. You want a good puzzle. You got to go to a puzzle store, a puzzle specialty shop where they are not just, you know, bringing shit off the boat from China.
Sonny00:06:19Question.
JVL00:06:20Yeah. You want stuff made in America, made in England. Yeah. Made in Germany. Sonny.
Sonny00:06:25So this is. So this is. So first off. My, you know, my, my wife used to work at a place that was dealing with American manufacturing things. And one of the one of the items she would always put in, like the year end gift guide was puzzles, because like there are there are great like American manufactured puzzles. Like you get like there are the cheap ones that you get from China at Target or whatever that are like stamped on a press or whatever. And then you get, you know, you get the good ones. I mean, you're talking about build quality. It's just build the build quality on these things is not just build quality.
JVL00:06:58It's also cut design. So the cut design, because you need the cuts created so that, again, the pieces are all the links are unique. And so you don't get near matches. And that's not build quality so much as like the design of the cut.
Mike00:07:15Yeah, sorry.
JVL00:07:15Is that done with a jigsaw with an actual jigsaw these days still? OK, it's not. OK, now these things are my other. I mean, I think I know I'm saying like I know what the manufacturing process is. I have no idea. Sorry. Fool me if you did. But also materials. Like you want that blue felt back, right? The blue, filthy cardboard back, which is there's a name for it. It's like you're a French felt, I think, is what it's called, maybe. And that's like another marker of a good quality puzzle. Sorry. Continue, Sonny. Sonny, go ahead.
Sonny00:07:44Do you have a puzzle table that is just permanently for puzzles now? Do you have like a dining room size table that you just have set up all the time with whatever puzzle you have going at any given time?
JVL00:07:57Oh, no, no, no. No, we have an actual puzzle table, which is a puzzle table, a table for puzzles, which is big enough to accommodate fifteen hundred or a thousand or fifteen hundred piece puzzles. It has the base of the table is felt, which is important. It has a wooden lip all the way around it to keep things from falling off, slide off it. It's on rollers. You can move it around and it tilts. So that if you are the type of person who likes putting the puzzle up at, you know, maybe a very shallow angle, maybe just like fifteen degrees up to you. You could do that or maybe more extreme so you can have almost like an easel.
Mike00:08:44So it can be like, you know, facing you like this if you wanted it. I mean, not like really because then the pieces slide down, but the felt prevents pieces from sliding. And it's a little bit of friction. Yeah.
JVL00:08:56Yeah. And it's really it's a nice space for you could put. Four people around that thing working very, very, very, very easily without getting in people's ways. Do we have dedicated puzzle sorters? Yes. Yes, we do. I don't know what that means.
Sonny00:09:10What is what is that? What is a puzzle sorter?
JVL00:09:12Oh, just little trays to as you're sorting pieces, because, you know, I don't know about you guys. We have a very edge piece. We have a plan of attack when we hit a puzzle. Right. You know, G money starts with the frame while I just like a little like a little chip. Chipmunk sorting through acorns. I just go through poking out frame pieces, frame pieces, frame pieces, put middle pieces over here. Then you then you sort. Oh, yeah. And and I can imagine the feeling I wind up getting is not dissimilar from the feeling I used to get from playing civilization. Where it would be that one more turn. I just, you know, one more turn. It's like 830 at night. I should be putting G money to bed. And he and I are sitting there like. And he's like, I just want to finish this section with the Ninja Turtles in it. Yeah, sure. No, we'll just finish that section with the Ninja Turtles. 15 minutes later, you look up and like, oh, now it's 845. Well, let's just finish this section over here. Question. It's so satisfying. Yes.
Mike00:10:15Question. What about what are your thoughts on the picture itself? The design printed on the puzzle. Is there is there no design? That's not that that is not, you know, worth doing a puzzle of or are there some you avoid? I have a lot of thoughts about this, too.
JVL00:10:38And there are hallmarks of a picture that will make the build enjoyable versus annoying. And so pictures with too much space that is all dedicated to a single color without a lot of gradation in it. Can be annoying.
Sonny00:11:00The most satisfying for me, and I'm sure everybody has different.
JVL00:11:05This fetish manifests itself in different ways for different people. No judgment. I really like puzzle faces where there are clearly defined breaks between things that are going on. So, for instance, G and I did this week a thousand piece. Very nice. I forget who the brand. It was DC Comics. It was the DC Universe branding on it, but clearly they subcontract to somebody with a very, very nice quality puzzle. I forget who the point of origin was on it, but it was a thousand pieces with Batman comic book covers. And they were all sort of, you know, so you could there were probably 30 different covers of various Batman comics through, like, the last 80 years on this. And so as you're working the puzzle, after you've gotten your teeth into a little bit, you'd be like, oh, I know that this piece is going to go with this cover, this Joker cover from 1948 that's up here on the left. And I find those puzzles the most satisfying to get into. They're not the hardest, right? I mean, the hardest is the ones with no gradation. Right. But I'm not there for one single color.
Sonny00:12:24Yeah, I'm not there for the challenge.
JVL00:12:26Although we did a puzzle. God, over Christmas break, we had a puzzle for which it was a Sherlock Holmes themed puzzle. The idea being that you don't the trick of it is you don't know what you're building. And so you are not given any picture to start from. Right. You're just given a thousand pieces and told, figure it out. That I did not like, but also I couldn't stop. Yeah, I didn't care for it, but I couldn't stop either.
Mike00:12:56I've always felt like we try a new strain of heroin.
JVL00:12:58You should be like, I'll just throw this in the toilet. No, you got to finish it. Finish it, snort it all. Is this a common thing? Do people like this? Because it does feel like living in the 1820s or something. Like, oh, we shall sit by the candlelight and do a jigsaw puzzle together.
Mike00:13:16No, it feels like it's the 1990s and you're my grandmother. That's what it feels like to me. Dagger. But my grandmother was awesome. Take that for what?
Sonny00:13:29You're the cool grandma.
Mike00:13:30Yeah, exactly. So, but I have more. I have so many questions. What is your, what are your views about completing a puzzle again? Doing a puzzle that you've already completed again?
JVL00:13:44Yeah. So we have a handful of puzzles, which we have done multiple times because they are so satisfying. Which is really fun puzzles to do.
Mike00:13:53And the satisfaction is not, does not diminish considerably. Not really.
JVL00:13:58It's like rereading a book, you know? Right. I mean, of course, it's nothing like rereading a book. This shows, again, sickness and compulsion. I'm not proud of it. But I, in general, my general view, and we do not do this, but I believe what you should do is that when you finish a puzzle, you should very soon take it apart or leave it out until you start another one. And then before you start your part, and then you should give it away. You should give it to somebody else. Because otherwise, you wind up with what we've got, which is, again, a bookcase full of puzzles. Stacks, yeah. 95% of which we will never do again, but we're not quite sure, like, well, what should we do with it? And I wish we had another puzzle family that we could just, like, send our puzzles to. You could trade puzzles.
Sonny00:14:47Maybe you could start, like, a next-door group, like a puzzle.
JVL00:14:51Yeah, that sounds like a little free puzzle library.
Sonny00:14:54Puzzle swap. You get a lot of weird. Weird requests. Don't have any pineapple puzzles.
JVL00:15:00But I feel like there must be a lot of people like me, because there are puzzle stores, and a puzzle store couldn't exist unless there were puzzle people, right? This must be, like, trained. Big puzzle, unless it's a front.
Sonny00:15:11Big puzzle has cracked down on the puzzle swaps. They won't, they're not into this. They're not going to let a library situation come up.
JVL00:15:22I mean, do you guys notice when you do puzzles, do you notice the difference in quality?
Mike00:15:28Oh, yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about, particularly with the material. You know, it's like those ones that are essentially just paper. Those are garbage puzzles. I have one more question, and then we can move on. But I'm curious about puzzle structure, because there are, like, three-dimensional puzzles and all kinds of, like, interesting, like, just, you know, not just your square or rectangular puzzle. Have you dabbled?
JVL00:15:58Do not care for those. Do not care for anything that goes three-dimensional. I want it flat. The one thing I do like, there is a company in Seattle called Mosaic Puzzles. They make wooden puzzles. And so these are wood puzzles. And these things are, they're expensive. I'm not going to lie. But the quality of them are, like, your grandchildren will be doing these puzzles. And they are beautiful. Really, really beautiful. And the pieces are all unique. And so when I am fast, I would love to get inside their factory and see how they do it. Because you're doing a puzzle that's like a zoo. And the pieces themselves, many of them, they'll be, like, recognizable shapes. They'll be like a star or a balloon or a lion. And the puzzle, they're thick. They have beautiful wood. The printing of the picture on them is gorgeous. And these puzzles you can do over and over and over again. And they're unique. So when you get your puzzle from them, the cut of the pieces that you have for that puzzle will be different than the cut of whoever buys the next one of those off the assembly line. And that must be an absolute feat of computer programming. To come up with cut designs that are so scalable and interchangeable. And if you go to, while you guys talk, I'll send you, it's really something. Mosaic Puzzles, two thumbs up, five stars. Recommend. All right.
Mike00:17:49All right. Well, thank you, JVL. Sonny, what's going on with you?
Sonny00:17:53No, all the puzzle talk. It just reminds me that one of the nice. Nicer gifts I got for Christmas for me was a little daily New York Times crossword puzzle calendar that I don't, I don't have time to do every day. Unfortunately, I just, I don't, I don't.
Mike00:18:07Is it a mini crossword?
Sonny00:18:09Yeah. I mean, no, it's like, it's like the, it's like the daily crossword. It's not like the big Sunday one, but it's like, it's like the full daily crossword. But this has also led to me rediscovering my love of pencils. Like I've, I haven't really used pencils in many, many years, but you need a little, you need a sharp point. You really got to be able to. To get, I don't know. I don't, I don't have any.
Mike00:18:30It's the real anal retentive podcast here.
Sonny00:18:32I don't really have any, I don't have any strong thoughts on puzzles or frankly crossword puzzles at this point. I have spent the whole week getting over. So last week I had cold or flu or something. This, this week, Sunday, Sunday night to Monday morning, I spent the entire like 11 PM to 6 AM stretch vomiting. I had food poisoning of some sort. Just, just an awful. Uh, an awful case of the sort I have never quite experienced. I mean, I've thrown up before, obviously. Um, but it was like, it was, it was one of these, like, everything's got to come out of the stomach and we're not stopping. We're not stopping until it all.
Mike00:19:14There may have been an organ somewhere in there. You have no way of knowing.
Sonny00:19:18I, let me tell you, I like, I don't know. I, I w I was snorting things out of my nasal cavities for two days after it was, uh, it was bad. Uh, so I like.
Mike00:19:27I'm just, I'm still trying to, uh, look at sound better than you, than I would.
Sonny00:19:33Well, I feel, I feel fine now. Cause again, it was, I mean, it was like, at first I thought it was the flu. Cause I was like, I guess I was like, I guess that thing I had was the flu. And this is now the, the throw up part of the flu, but it wasn't at all. I don't, I don't like, I, I feel better than I did last week. I feel, um, I feel much better than I did Monday or Sunday there. I had no fever or anything like that. It was just like, it was just like, everything's gotta, everything's gotta get out of stomach right now.
JVL00:19:59So that was, uh, gotta go home, but you gotta get up on out of here.
Sonny00:20:03That was a, you gotta go in the toilet bowl, preferably. Uh, so that was a fun seven hours. Um, that was a fun set, but I, I like, again, I'm, I am fine now. I am, I am fine. But I, again, it has kind of like messed up my whole week. So I got nothing. That's drag. Nothing except vomit and crossword puzzles.
Mike00:20:25Yeah. Well, um. I mean, I feel like I've already, uh, I've already, uh, I, I went to you guys with my crisis lat late last week. And, uh, I guess I need to, to talk about it briefly here on the, on the pod, because as listeners will know that, uh, I'm preparing to go on this, on this, uh, trip. Oh yeah. My oldest to universal studios.
JVL00:20:49People haven't heard the, the real update. Cause we told, we talked about that over text, right? That wasn't on the show.
Mike00:20:54Exactly. That's what I mean. So I've, I've, I've talked about it with you guys. We're text and I'll, I'll give the, uh, I'll try to give a brief version of here. Um, so yeah, so the plan was actually to be gone, uh, as we were recording this next week, like the original plan at this time next week, I was to be in Orlando riding, I don't know, the flight of the Hippogriff or something, um, drinking a butterbeer. And, uh, so I'm just, you know, closing out the week at, uh, at work, go grab something to eat for lunch. And because. I'm an obsessive about like checking things like, am I getting the best deal on my hotel? You know, can I find a better, a better rate and, and go back and, and, and rebook? Um, I'm curious about such and such ride. Let me check out the app and I'm scrolling on the app. And I happened to notice that the Hogwarts express train ride is at the time was, was shut down. And I was like, Hmm, that's odd. It's a Friday. Like, why would it be? It's shut down now. Um, so I click on it just to see what's going on. Uh, and I am glad I did because I happened to notice that not only was this attraction closed down, uh, at that point, but it is going to be closed down through the month of January, including the up until and including the last day that we were supposed to be there. And just, just to explain, I like this attraction is like a huge chunk of why my 10 year old and I are going to this thing. It's a, it's the only reason that I bought the park to park tickets, because it's the thing that you have to have if you want to ride the Hogwarts express. And it's a unique ride depending on which direction, all that stuff. So I, all, you know, I have been planning this thing. I had gotten my plane tickets and hotel and all that stuff like months and months ago. Um, only to figure out like two weeks before I was to go. So like I might need to blow up this entire trip and, uh, I, I, I will say I kind of low key freaked out a little bit and, um, called up a few, you know, made a few phone calls, tried to figure things out. Uh, the it's, it's essentially closed for scheduled maintenance because this is a low traffic time in the park, January, uh, in Orlando, not a, not a popular time to go. Um, and so, uh, but I will say they, there's no. There's no advertising of this, right? There's no advertising that, Hey, just so you know, just so they gave you a discount
JVL00:23:33on the ticket because they were going to be shutting down this incredibly popular ride.
Mike00:23:38Oh no, JVL. Oh no. Far, far from it. They were like, Oh, do you, do you want to buy the ticket that the only reason anybody buys ticket is to ride this ride? Um, for, Oh, for those dates. Oh, absolutely. Sure. We will, we will gladly take your money for that ticket.
JVL00:23:53Oh, well, I'm sure when you called them to say you were surprised to see this, they offered to make it right with you.
Mike00:23:59Uh, I mean, I, the truth is I didn't have to do that. The only thing that mattered was that the only thing when I went to change this, which I, all I did was push it back a week. That's all I did. Um, the only thing that, that ultimately made a monetary difference was I had to rebook the hotels and the hotel rates went up, um, from when I booked it back in whenever that was September. Um, you know, which is understandable. Um, and, uh, and it's like, it's like the first week of universal is like Mardi Gras celebration, which is like people come to the park. It's like, anyway, point is it all turned out fine. It was, it was a, when it comes to what I will end up spending on this trip, like the, the, the, the fee, uh, that I am paying for having to change this is negligible essentially. So, uh, it will happen.
JVL00:24:58Uh, but it was riding the Hogwarts express 15 times so that we get our money's worth.
Mike00:25:05You better believe we're right. That thing. Um, I don't know. It's just, it's one of those things where you think you can like figure all this stuff out, get squared away and like sit and feel good for weeks and months that you did everything right. And then you just happen to like see something. and i mean i keep thinking at least i didn't get there and learn that this thing was good because i i might i might have burned that mother down like i might have just like pull clark griswold totally wally world is closed
Sonny00:25:42sorry sir park's closed um beaver out front should have told you or moose out front should
Mike00:25:50moose out front should have told you um yeah so anyway so that's uh that's uh that's where i am all is well all is good the uh when i told my 10 year old that we were going to have to push this back a week um this trip which he is very excited for his first reaction was oh his second reaction was okay i get to miss an extra day of school yeah yeah exactly yeah so i have a question i
Sonny00:26:19haven't i haven't yes curious question that i've never satisfactorily gotten the answer to what is what precisely is
JVL00:26:25butter beer like what what what is it i don't quite taste like no cream i don't quite know tastes like cream soda yes bullshit i mean at least the butter beers that i bought when they were selling these things at barnes and noble for the harry potter book release parties now i don't know how official those are i don't know if they actually came from hogsmeade maybe like with guinness the the guinness you get over in ireland is different than the guinness you get here in america and there's subtle water it's in the water you know yeah yeah i don't know it's i don't know
Mike00:27:03what it is is there alcohol in it no there's no alcohol it is um so it at universal it comes in three versions there is a like fizzy essentially a soda which i think is like cream soda um there is a hot version um sort of like a coffee or like a hot buttered rum but without the rum exactly kind of uh and then there is a frozen one um like a slushy version so i'll report back and apparently there's also like butterbeer like flavored stuff like it's like how many ways can we separate you from your money um you know can we figure out another way to do it and i'm sure they i'm sure they're coming up with all kinds of new schemes to do that as
Sonny00:27:55we speak when i when i was at disney world when we went to the star wars land i got one of the alcoholic star wars drinks it was terrible it was just one of the worst things i've ever had i mean um that is not it was it was it was it was like a terrible terrible drink
Mike00:28:09um i mean it's it's it's it's alcohol i'm let's let's be honest it's alcohol for disney adults you know like it's it's gonna it's gonna be sweet it's gonna be it's gonna be
Sonny00:28:20overly sweet we had lunch at the brown derby that day and i got a manhattan that was a proper manhattan that when you go to a restaurant you go to a restaurant and get alcohol at disney they understand the adults that are doing that it's not it's not it's different from the disney adults who are just wandering around the park you know and they don't judge and they don't judge uh well i don't know about that but uh you know uh it was uh that
Mike00:28:44was that was that was a proper drink um well at any rate uh shall we move on i think we uh no no no more questions all right uh sunny i feel like you're you're you're flagging a little bit here uh something coming back up all right uh let's go and move on to box office talk uh very shortly here number one this was an extended right martin luther king jr weekend uh extended weekend box office number one of the box office move foster the that is and number three wolfman i know what that is because that's a horror movie right um yeah
Sonny00:29:26one of them days is a uh it's a it's a black comedy it's a it's a a tyler perry no it's it's um oh that yeah you've seen you've probably seen the ad for it like a hundred times but it stars kiki palmer and sissa i believe is how you pronounce that sissa sissa yeah the sissa no yeah but like when i i always just pronounce it like the rizza i assume it's the same thing i think it is i think it is that's different from lizzo different from lizzo lizzo is l-i-z-z-o lizzo look lizzo is easy to pronounce that's you just and different from sia different from sia right again sia though like makes sense as a phonetic exchange totally totally letters sissa the rizza cza i don't know um yeah i haven't seen that uh the uh wolfman under underperformed i believe the invisible man which was so this this film was directed by lee winnell who is uh also the guy who made the invisible man starring elizabeth moss that came out uh like it came out right around the time of the pandemic i think i think
Mike00:30:40that was like one of the last big releases is this a part of the the new monster no well kind of
Sonny00:30:46kind of so remember remember universal wanted to do a dark universe and the first one was the mummy the first one was the mummy starring tom cruise and and that was gonna and it had uh it had russell crowe was dr jekyll and mr hyde exactly russell crowe was dr jekyll and mr hyde and like it was gonna be a whole he was like that's the nick fury of the dark universe the the dr jekyll and mr hyde because he's very smart you know he's collecting all of these monsters um uh and that movie bombed horribly the mummy the mummy the mummy bombed horribly uh which but it did lead it the one good thing is that it did lead to the funniest pre-production still of all time which was like it was tom cruise and uh it was tom cruise and russell crowe and sofia butella who was in the the mummy she was like the the female mummy at the start of the movie um but also like uh uh johnny depp and javier bardem who were scheduled to be i believe johnny depp was going to be the invisible man and javier bardem was going to be the wolf man i think i might be i might be misremembering and then somebody who was going to play dracula somebody somebody was going to play dracula and then so they had this production still it was like welcome to the dark universe and it was just all of them sitting around in a room together which like imagine coordinating the schedules of all those guys to get them in the same place at it wasn't photoshopped i don't think i think it was it was all of them together at the same time imagine like the amount of effort that went into that photo happened that instantly became the greatest punchline of all time to the to the dark universe but the idea behind that universe was always dumb it was like we're going to spend 200 million dollars on a bunch of monster movies and people are going to come watch them because
JVL00:32:33this ip is in the public domain we don't have to come up with new ip on our own well no no but no
Sonny00:32:38but these are specifically the universal monsters they are not in the public domain which is why universal was like universal was like we can do this because we have we have the rights to these characters these beloved characters like wolfman and mummy that are totally unique to us nobody else can make a mummy movie nobody else can make nobody else can make a where nobody can make a frankenstein movie i think that's in the public domain now anyway um or a dracula movie or a dracula movie can't make a dracula so uh but the uh anyway uh that that all bombed horribly but it was always missed it was always it never made any sense because they the whole plan for this was we're going to spend 200 million dollars on these monsters and we're going to spend 200 million like they're marvel movies and people will love them and we'll we'll make a whole universe out of it um when the whole point of a horror movie is that you make horror movies for cheap you make horror movies for very little money you make them for very little money and then they either they either don't do well like wolfman like wolfman cost i think 25 million dollars was the budget on this movie so even if it doesn't gross another penny it's not going to lose that much money and it'll it'll probably end up breaking about even after you factor in pvod and uh streaming uh but if you spend 200 million dollars on these movies you're going to lose your money that's
Mike00:33:56stupid stupid idea uh so so i have a i have a question about the original this original idea of the universal monsters because yeah my understanding is that they were just making these movies there wasn't a sense that they were like all in the same universe like our modern
Sonny00:34:16sense of what a yeah but then they eventually were right but then they eventually were yeah i mean it was like a natural thing i mean and this is the other thing if it had just been a natural thing if they had made one movie and it was a big hit and people people really liked it and then if you had done what marvel did they had done what marvel did you make one movie and it's a hit you make a sequel to that movie that expands that universe a little bit and then you make other movies that are successful on their own both storytelling and business propositions and then you combine them all into the avengers at the end and after you do that then you can tell the interconnected stories for the rest of time right but you can't do you can't just start off doing that people reject it people reject it they don't like it
JVL00:34:59uh so yeah do you feel wasn't universals mistake conceptual in that they should have combined the dark monster universe with the fast and furious universe because that would have been the type thing that idiot fast and furious lovers would have just gobbled up i don't know frankenstein is about what's his face uh fighting the creature from the black lagoon i think it could that could have worked that could
Sonny00:35:31have worked i don't know i was just seeing today that like there still is no movement on fast x
JVL00:35:36part two so we'll see what happens they left us with a cliffhanger i mean we all need to know what
Mike00:35:42happens after they blew up the dam vins going down that damn fast x part two so like it would have to be fast 11 but part two would make it look like fast x fast 12 this is there's a problem here in
Sonny00:35:58the in the marketing that really i would assume i would assume they'll call it fast 11 i don't think they'll because all of them have just been the next one it's not oh oh okay okay i don't i don't think it's actually going to be called it might be although everybody has gotten away from the whole part one part two structure now so i don't know like the new mission impossible the new mission impossible is not mission impossible dead reckoning part two anymore it's mission impossible the final reckoning i believe final reckoning yes the final reckoning one more time gonna get gonna get in that sub with tom cruise i'll follow tom cruise in any sub all right uh with tom cruise for hours on end okay yeah all right good uh anything else on
Mike00:36:41the box office before we move on no that's it okay well let's move on and talk about severance severance season two launched uh last friday was the uh first episode um it's been a minute since uh severance season one which uh was produced during the pandemic uh released like what 2022
Sonny00:37:06uh either the end of 2021 or the beginning of 2022 yeah i don't think my wife and i discovered
Mike00:37:14it until like a year or so after that so it's not been as long um sonny do you want to give us kind of how do you want to do this i mean i feel like jvl needs a
Sonny00:37:25little bit of guidance well we should we should make it clear to everybody that jvl jvl doesn't watch tv he doesn't watch streaming tv correct right that's you you have a basic i don't have
JVL00:37:35time for that you're doing too many i can't do series devil i'm sorry i can't do series television yeah i can't do it it doesn't fit in my life it's and it's not this is not a moral judgment i'm not saying i don't like series television i would love to watch series television right i just yeah you just have other things it's logistics got a lot of things running a business got four kids trying to get flash into college i mean it's you know there's a lot
Sonny00:38:00happening this is not this we're not i'm not saying this to i just want everyone to understand so i'm just gonna i'm just gonna talk about the show and jvl i'm not gonna worry about spoiling you i will say if you have not watched the first season before i start talking about any of this you should watch it because it's very good and we'll we'll have to discuss a plot points here that are revealed that are revealed later on so if you if you were if you're if you're severance curious allow mike and i both to say you should go watch it you should watch the first season pause this come back in a couple weeks when you're done and we'll talk we'll talk more we'll talk more later um so uh and be ever the setup of severance is basically this right the um uh there is a guy who uh works in an underground basement level of a giant corporation the lumen corporation um and he has undergone what is known as the severance procedure which basically uh is a little microchip you put in your brain and it separates your life it separates your life by spatial dimension right so basically like you don't remember anything when you go through a certain door and your memories start again when you come out the other side right but when you go through that door you remember everything on that side of the door so like the the idea here is basically he doesn't want to remember who he is at work he doesn't want to remember who he is at work because he uh has suffered trauma his wife has died he doesn't want to he doesn't want to like sit at an office as an office drone somewhere punching numbers in a terminal thinking about his wife he wants and he wants to do something that is easier so he undergoes the severance procedure uh this is adam scott he's he's adam scott um and i had forgotten this but i re-watched i actually re-watched the first season it's one of the few shows during the whole streaming era that i've actually re-watched a season of um and uh i had forgotten that the first episode actually starts with uh adam scott's character mark mark r mark r right mark mark yeah yeah mark r um uh starts with mark r training a new severed employee heli uh as as and so he has like a manual he's running down he's explaining to her what is going on it really it walks the about heli coming to grips with so the show is split into two halves you have the half that takes place in the severed office space that's about their work and the like weird mysterious cult-like atmosphere of their work at lumen mike you you gave a whole spiel at the beginning of the kier egan's thoughts and principles and one of the running gags in this thing is that there are folks who there are folks who work in the severed floor who like treat this like a religion who like consider this to be like the holy writ because it's the other thing the thing you have to remember with the severed folks is that this is the only life they ever experience they are
Mike00:41:00essentially wake up they wake up when they get off the elevator yeah in the basement office and then at the end of their work day they get in the elevator and the next thing that they know is the next day right when they're when they are walk back off the elevator to do another day of work right so
Sonny00:41:19they don't they they don't have downtime right these these uh the severed the severed had the innies they're called the innies the innies do not have downtime they don't sleep they don't go to baseball games they don't like you know they don't they don't go to movie theaters right they have like their life there's no books there there's no entertainment it's very it's like it's it's one of these things where you think to yourself oh yeah i'd kind of like to do maybe i want to do that maybe i don't want to you know i just want to like experience all of my life as as
JVL00:41:49the 16 hours where i'm not literally asks for this in the beginning of office space when he goes to the hypnotist yes yeah give me something so i can just sort of zone out and work and not
Sonny00:42:00even know that i'm there that's basically so that's basically what's going on anyway so half of the show takes place in in the lumen offices and it's about like these these four individuals it's uh mark helly and then um irving and dylan irving irving and dylan irving is played by uh and uh dylan is played by zach cherry um and uh my favorite zach cherry is my favorite actor on the show maybe he's so funny he's he's so funny and this the other thing about the show is that it is it's both the puzzle box lost type show but it's also a workplace comedy kind of except it's the most deranged workplace you've ever seen um anyway so half the show is that half the show is uh mark out in the real world uh living his life trying to like deal with his his problems but also like like dealing with folks who are opposed to the severance procedure and also like trying to unravel the mystery from the outside of what he's doing on the inside after one of his co-workers from the any space comes to him on the outside and says we got to stop what's going on down there it's all wrong evil blah blah so that's that is that that's the elevator pitch for the show it's the longest elevator in the world this is the that's that's the show it's kind it's it's it's almost too complicated to explain in a brief way but it is it's incredibly funny it's incredibly entertaining um it is again to look at it's it's incredibly well so the you know the budget on this show for the second season was like 20 million dollars an episode or something 25 million dollars an episode but it like for again for a show that takes place mostly in white office space um uh but then also kind of out in the real world moving around it looks great it looks great it really uh it's got it the acting is wonderful the acting is amazing and there is there is again this kind of lost element to it this puzzle box we're trying to solve the mystery of what's going on etc etc that is that is uh entertaining and always kind of a warning sign you never you you can never you can never be sure how far ahead the actual showrunners have planned right like is are they just gonna wing it is it is it gonna be anyway the second the second season started uh last week by the way the time this goes up the the second episode will be out we've only watched yeah we've only watched the first episode so far um but the uh the the first episode uh takes place entirely in the any space and it's all of the characters who so at the end of the first season are four heroes well three of them break out of like they send their they essentially send their uh their any consciousness to their outie body as it's wandering around in the weird real world and so the the film the the the series ends um with mark discovering that his wife is still alive and is in the several is in the any office space she's the like hr employee essentially the uh the one of the heli learns that she is actually the daughter of an egan she is an egan heir and she is she has been like the company family the family that owns the company so she she she has severed to demonstrate to the rest of the world that it's actually great and you know it's it's it's and when she goes to she goes to give a speech to this effect but it's actually her anybody talking out of her audi see like this all sounds very schizophrenic but uh her anybody talking out of her audi mouth and she says we are miserable we are being tortured down there stop severance we gotta stop all this uh so anyway uh second season picks up and it's entirely in the any office and it's these four characters all trying to figure out what happened while they were gone because they have no conception again like all they remember is like entering like exiting all they all they understand is entering the elevator and exiting the elevator for the office for the office floor that's like they have no conception of how much time has passed in the outside world any of that they could miss a day of work they don't know unless somebody tells them when they come back they've been told it's been five months the the insurance procedures have all changed they have new rules about interacting with the outside world things are better things are better at work now things are you should stay severed things are better and they got to figure out how much of this is real whether they're all still severed mike do you think heli do you think that's heli or helena down there i think it's helena i think it's the unsevered heli uh and then uh anyway again show very good very entertaining very mysterious and also very funny i it is it is there are like every episode has three or four laugh out loud funny moments in it and anyway and and i would say uh while what you just described
Mike00:47:02sonny is like very it's very plot heavy and very very much uh it sounds cumbersome um i think the appeal of the show are um is the comedy and frankly is the design like i the the whole mid-century office decor look of the lumen severed space is just a dream to look at um like it's it's all of those kind of i i don't know what you would call it it's like sort of like that space age you know 50s to 60s kind of office space decor is how i would describe it you know and the the colors are that kind of muted 60s 70s color scheme greens and uh sort of natural tones um the weirdness of it all like the package as a whole is so appealing and i find it to be and i hope this is going to be the case as the show goes on but i find it so far to be such a um such a interesting satirical look at office culture at corporate culture at um at like work-life balance like it sort of delivers on those things so far in a way that i feel like a lot of these shows sort of aspire to but but can't deliver on and and i think i personally think that's ben stiller and um sort of his i i don't think we talk enough about how how great of a kind of um like filmmaker i guess you would say ben stiller is or it can be i don't know what your thoughts are on that guys but um i just think there's there's a lot of his uh his fingerprints obviously he's the executive
Sonny00:48:55producer and all that and creator and he directed a bunch of the episodes and he directed correct and he's very adult yeah my my understanding from the reporting is that the so the second season they had filmed a bunch of it and ben stiller was like this actually sucks we have to stop and start and rewrite it and start again and that's one of the reasons why the the budget was so high is because they they uh they they they basically re-shot half the season or something um which again like it's nice to it's nice to have that sort of power that you can that you can do that um uh jb i'll tag you in here in a sec here because i i i think you have thoughts on ben stiller but like i for my part ben stiller is between between the cable guy and tropic thunder and zoolander all of which are packaged as you know kind of like zany comedies he he actually sneaks in some of the most precise and cutting cultural uh social commentary of any mainstream filmmaker i mean like tropic thunder is a perfect example of this right like whenever somebody thinks about tropic thunder they think about robert downey jr and blackface right they're like this is and and there and then there's often like a fight about like oh you know is it appropriate for him to be a black but the whole the whole point of the joke is like it's not appropriate for him to be a black face this is you know this is ridiculous etc etc but there's a second level of that joke which is that the the actual black character who is in the who is one of the actors who is in this team is himself wearing a form of blackface by pretending to be this gangster rapper when all he wants to do is like hang out with lance bass and you know knit or whatever right like he's he has to like he has to like he has to put on this this uh this visage for the public that is that is just as just as ridiculous and like nobody ever really talks about this nobody ever nobody ever gets to that second level and that's kind of the where all of his stuff is operating on like the running thing and i'm sorry i'm still talking to you but the the whole thing in the cable guy where there's like the running thing about the menendez the like fake menendez trial in the background is just like it's very it's smart and subtle and interesting and i don't know what do you what do you make of it well i mean i i mean confession
JVL00:51:09i was gonna try to fake my way through this book report but uh i'm i'm just not going to severance it's such a i mean it's the concept is really so interesting the way that the idea i mean are are we ever truly ourselves when we are at work man i i would say this for like the three episodes
Mike00:51:35i watched when we did this show the last time i found it interesting good like nothing bad it
JVL00:51:42left me cold though in the way that almost all series television leaves me cold um but but for different reasons the tone it tonally it was a little all over the map like there's like funny laugh out loud things but then you see adam scott's character like sitting crying in his car in a way that is you know you really feel like the clue this guy's had something terrible happen in his life and then one of the characters hangs herself you know it's there's a lot of whipsawing right in tone to it which that's modern tv baby i guess it is and i mean it's funny you say that there's still comedy in it because the ads which i see all over the place now all all lean on the lost side of it like it's like you know there's there's some big mystery what's the mystery of severance you know so i don't know i i don't know what to say about it other than i'm so glad that people love it i'm just it's not a season of my life where i can take on a puzzle box you know god god forbid something that you have to watch the the thing twice you have to watch two the first season twice just to understand what the fuck is going on when you come into the second season well that was more that was more
Sonny00:52:58because it's been three years it was like three years between season one and season two that was
JVL00:53:03yeah you wanted to catch up yeah i want to say about ben stiller what i find interesting about him is that he is as an actor a very broad comedian like you know the work he's doing in dodgeball or zoolander it's not subtle stuff right it is not subtle stuff at all it's funny i'm not saying it's
Sonny00:53:27not funny but it's very primary colors very bold and as you say like as a as a director and a
JVL00:53:36producer he actually has a very subtle sensibility and i just find him fascinating like i didn't like
Mike00:53:43ben stiller early in his career like the you didn't like the ben stiller show i
JVL00:53:49never watched the ben stiller show but like the meet the parents version of ben stiller right didn't didn't do much for me um so but can you explain to me to what extent is he part of the judd apatow owen wilson will ferrell verse because he's he seems like he's part of it but more as a guest player than like one of the well the repertory troupe well he's more his own apatow
Sonny00:54:19judd if i remember correctly judd apatow was the showrunner on the ben stiller show correct if i remember if i remember that is that is how their relationship began and so it's all it's you know they're they're all kind of in the same um you know was ben stiller on snl was he on like
Mike00:54:37yes he was on snl for five five episodes yeah him and julia louis dreyfus were on at the same time yeah were they no no no no no no julia louis dreyfus was on several seasons earlier ben stiller at the same time as mike myers um and they were the first new cast members in like three seasons it was that core cast of like dana carvey john lovitz uh jan hooks etc etc and they join both at the same time and ben stiller left and he's talked about it since he's like he goes he always says i think it was the right choice for me to leave like it wasn't a good fit for me but he could have i could have done it better but i was too young and and and foolish it's like again he's he's very um he's very intelligent about show business and he he has i think part of it comes from growing up in a show business family and like seeing it and all that um but uh but yes he was on
Sonny00:55:36there for a half a minute so he was yeah so he was he was part of that troupe and then like he uh so he's in heavyweights which i think was maybe co-written by judd apatow um uh and then like it's a but he's he's like in that whole he's in that whole universe he's definitely part of it um but he had a cameo in anchorman he's been able he's he's been able to do his own thing that's that's
JVL00:56:00more separate from yeah like tropic thunder and yeah yeah i i mean you could do like the the it's all connected board with him and will ferrell and vince vaughn and owen wilson and apatow and the
Sonny00:56:19how i met your mother guy yeah i i i mean i i don't it's like i just think he's very funny
JVL00:56:25and very smart and i i have come i mean not not recently but you know starting probably around zoolander to really appreciate his comedic sensibility that was like 20 years ago right that's what i'm saying like i've been like meet the parents level i was just like uh he's a sort of an annoying screen presence and then i i stopped finding him and said i'm this is like the stupidest thing to say hey this guy who everybody loves as a comedian i also love him and think he's very funny well i also think i also do great show he
Sonny00:56:59he got he got he got more interesting as he got when he's at his broadest is when he is most interesting so like i love his performance in heavyweights where he plays the sadistic fat camp counselor this is like a very very funny but also again very broad it's like he's like he's like an evil richard simmons like it's it's uh you know it's that sort of vibe um and then percus and then and then zoolander obviously but in dodgeball as you mentioned but like he when he when he really leans into the kind of like wide-eyed
JVL00:57:30manic um you know he's part of the sandler verse too isn't he like he's in happy gilmore right
Mike00:57:36he's in more than one adam sandler movie i think yeah he he is just he is in he is spread throughout comedy and and like movies in a way that i wouldn't say is entirely unique but i mean he is he's he's there
JVL00:57:57throughout our generation's comedy kevin bacon sure do you see where i'm getting at like all the different comedy universes he sort of sits at the center six degrees of six degrees of
Mike00:58:10um yeah i can see that yeah like by the way oh all i was gonna say is go back and watch some of the so the famously the ben stiller show um was like oh i think it won an emmy after it had been canceled uh as like as like the best best comedy show or comedy variety show or something um like it's it's also like a great like killer you know a murderer's row of uh of folks in there judd apatow um bob jenny garofalo which like she was which oh yeah great right um and uh andy dick uh got his start on the ben stiller show um and there's there's so many great like again his satiric eye he he does like a fantastic uh uh commercial for like i don't know if it's like selsun blue or head and shoulder some dandruff shampoo uh that's like clearly a direct parody where like he just keeps saying dandruff over and over again again it's very broad but it's also it's like it's like very cutting and and he's
JVL00:59:19i just think he's he's smarter than we give him credit so yeah i and uh royal royal tenenbaum there's another this actually cuts against this so in royal tenenbaum he is not broad at all he is very buttoned up he plays that movie incredibly tight uh in a movie where other people are doing broad stuff like owen wilson is very broad in that and he's great but there there is an
Sonny00:59:41exaggeratedness to the tightness too like there is like a little bit but it's yes i don't know
JVL00:59:49there's a thing he does where he slaps somebody's hand away in this and i'm forgetting who it is who like goes to hand him something or touch him something and when he slaps the hand away like he never even lets his elbow come up above like his hip like which is just again like his whole body his whole physicality is so tightly wound it's just this little tiny piece of business that is so good like i again i feel like an idiot like ben stiller he's great
Sonny01:00:19but he is like he's have you guys go ahead sonny do you remember his turn in extras do you remember
JVL01:00:25the the ricky gervais show extras where i do remember i never saw that i never i won't really
Sonny01:00:30watch it i was only a handful of those it's it's i i love extras is i think better than the office i know it's very controversial but i i'm pro i'm pro extras in a way that that is not often shared but the uh but there's the the the bit the the like running gag on the show is there's always a like a real famous person interacting with these extras who are played by ricky gervais and in one he plays a he plays a director who is making a movie about like uh serbian genocide or something and he like and and you know he's like he's like the total nice guy he's like uh but then like one of the one of the actual serbians starts like contradicting him and he flips out on him and that's that is like again it's it's like it's it's subtle but also like kind of broad and uh and and just and also just a very smart critique uh like i don't even know how smart the critique is it's just a very amusing critique of
Mike01:01:23like hollywood and in a in a based in real like this it's this is coming from experience or reality that he has witnessed or been around enough to to see uh my last two very quick uh ben stiller recommendations um he hosted saturday night live sometime in the last 15 years and does a great little pre-tape bit uh where he plays bruce springsteen by the way ben stiller is a great mimic uh he does he does great impersonations and he does bruce springsteen it's like a dvd compilation of all of his stories all of his live stories before they play the songs and every single every single one the story ends and it cuts off right before the song starts right right when he goes one two three four it's just great uh the second recommendation is those just the first like three and a half minutes of tropic thunder uh the the the trailer for all the actors movies like i i will just go watch that if i need like a break in the day and to go laugh the the jack black like uh nutty professor type movie where they're all like farting around the table they're doing um the booty sweat at outside it's just so great oh love ben stiller all right any other thoughts on severance or what do you think's gonna happen
Sonny01:02:44this season on severance mike predictions make some predictions to the puzzle box
Mike01:02:48uh here's my prediction uh it's gonna get wild it's gonna get crazy things that we never expected are gonna happen wow there's your prediction very bold i will say only go ahead
Sonny01:03:04sonny i only have one prediction which is i my prediction is that all of the audis are actually innies for some even broader circle there's like my my guess is there's there's like a nesting doll of any and then we're gonna find out that this is like something some some sort of experiment where they're trying to create a whole new society and they're they don't yeah i think it's i think it's i think we're i think i think we're gonna really blow people's minds in the as this season expands and we we learn we learn the truth about the audis who live we don't even know what state they're in pennsylvania maybe
Mike01:03:38i don't know work i don't know no it's that's that's a good oh by the way the other thing i was going to say is there's just like a hint of this i love the drawing on the kind of 19th century um millennial millenarian or whatever you call like all those movements millenarian is that what they're called like all those movements of like people like people in like 19th century who are going to like remake the world like the oneida people like i find all that stuff like it's a nice little pull uh yeah there's a there's a there's a
Sonny01:04:10element of the show that reminds me of the video game series bioshock i like i assume either of you guys have yeah you guys you guys haven't played bioshock but there's like the concept of bioshock is that like essentially this guy creates an underwater randian universe but in the third one there's like an there's like a a city in the sky that is based on like 19 19 like i don't know turn turn of the 18th 19th uh i'm sorry turn of the 19th 20th century american um like religious expansionism that like is is like is kind of what the egan mindset new religion
Mike01:04:48is what they call it new religion is that is that catch-all term for all those things so yeah um yeah it's uh it's it's pretty uh and i've been enjoying listening to ben stiller and adam scott's podcast where they go back this because it is interesting to hear about the production so i highly recommend what do you listen to our podcast listen to that podcast uh that is all the time we're going to give today to the show remember to tell your friends and family about uh subbeacon.com and we will talk to you next time
Sonny01:05:18buddhist sweat that always cracks me up i love that movie i love that movie so much great movie i love that movie and uh it's uh every every like six months or so some idiot zoomers like oh my god have you seen this movie where robert downey jr plays in blackface and and then everyone like melts down and when everyone laughs at the young people like ha ha ha you idiots you're not the future you're a bunch of more your time has passed the bum's lost i'm sure it's fine
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