#285. 'Den of Thieves' (Max)
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Sonny gives the "big-boy review" of Den of Thieves (2018, now on Max), pitched as "dirtbag Heat": Gerard Butler chews scenery as the greasy, corrupt LA sheriff's detective Big Nick, chasing a heist crew that includes O'Shea Jackson Jr. (who both Sonny and JVL keep marveling looks exactly like his real father, Ice Cube) and a supporting cast anchored by a scene-stealing, six-line 50 Cent. All three hosts land on roughly the same verdict — a fun, over-the-top, way-better-than-it-needs-to-be B-movie cops-and-robbers picture that is also about 30-40 minutes too long, weighed down by unresolved Gerard Butler family melodrama; JVL calls it a would-be TNT/cable classic at a tighter runtime and compares Butler's performance to Nicolas Cage in Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans, while Mike, seeing it for the first time, enjoyed it despite constantly being reminded of Ocean's Eleven, Die Hard, and The Usual Suspects. The review is prompted by Den of Thieves 2: Pantera opening at number one with a soft $15M, which the hosts use to riff on how disconnected "Film Twitter" hype for the original is from what audiences actually watch. The long opening stretch covers Sonny battling the same nasty congestion-heavy cold JVL had the week before (extensive chapstick and decongestant-shopping detail), Mike's anxious over-preparation for an upcoming father-son Universal Orlando/Wizarding World trip, and a lengthy box-office/pop-culture tangent about Better Man — the Robbie Williams CGI-monkey biopic bombing at $1M on 1,291 screens, its baffling marketing, and a debate over which American celebrity would be similarly unknown-yet-famous if the situation were reversed abroad; the Neil Gaiman sexual-assault allegations are raised and explicitly declined as a topic.
From the show notes
Big Nick's First Adventure!
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00Big Nick original gangsta cop in the flesh. What's your tally for dead six on the way to the hospital? I think he's a bad guy. I'm gonna make you a deal. Give me the names of all the guys got away I'll get your medic. I know snitch. Yo He's done son We got a problem this major crime get to know your enemy boys every big-time crew has been busted These are the guys who took him down
Mike00:00:30Welcome to the sub beacon podcast. I am your co-host Mike Warren joining me as Always are my two co-hosts who know that loose lips sink ships Jonathan V last and Sonny Bunch Join us over at sub beacon calm. Tell your friends and family. This is a great show We want more people listening to it And the only way they can listen to it is if they go to sub beacon Calm sign up become a patron. It's always a great time in the comment section Over there. We post new Episodes every Friday morning. So check it out at sub beacon Calm we are going to be talking about den of thieves Later on in the show, but first guys what is going on JVL? Let's start with you. What's happening?
JVL00:01:25Nothing for me. Just a question whether you guys want to do the Neil Gaiman thing or not Or what I don't know you tell me Or or do you want to talk about better better man or best man because we were talking over text about this and just the idea
Sonny00:01:39I think that that's a good. That's a good. Let's say let's save that for box-office talk
Mike00:01:43Okay Well, then JVL were we're moving on from you Sonny. We don't want it. Wait. We don't want to do
Sonny00:01:49Talk we don't want to talk about Neil Gaiman Sex sexual assaulter. We don't want to do that minutes on that's your prerogative. So that's not what we want to do
Mike00:01:57Oh, okay. So Sonny, that's your prerogative. That's What you want to talk about in in your little segment here go for it
Sonny00:02:04I mean, I don't I don't have much to talk about myself because I've been I've been sick like whatever JBL avoided I caught he sent it to me. I got it via the the video. You have it too. Okay good. Yeah No, I whatever it is Yeah, it's it's like it's this it's it's interesting because you know knock on wood Yeah, hopefully you can hear me now, but my kids have not caught it, which is which is which is interesting They have not they've not yet got it I'm sure It's coming since I have had it for the last four days, but you know It's some sort of weird cold kovat mild flu. Would you say it's concentrated up here? Oh, yeah, or oh you're down here in the church. It's all it's all it's I've got seven pounds of snot in my sinuses And it is great. It is just it is it's just like you know You know that the scene in The Exorcist where the girl pukes green everywhere all of that is in my nose It's in between my my nose and my brain And it's putting pressure on all of the parts of my face that don't it's the worst. I hate a clip. I hate Congestion I hate congestion more than I hate fever because at least fever is like kind of fun It's like hey, I got this. I'm having these weird dreams. I can't control my body temperature. I'm shaking. I'm gonna get some blankets now I don't need blankets It's like a fun little game where you try and figure out how to how to make yourself feel better with congestion is just like here's a box of books on your face for 24 hours a day. How does that feel? Do you like that? Is that good? Is that good for you? Should we put more books on your face? Can we can we step on you a little more? Is that oh and by the way?
Mike00:03:46Continue to live your life Right like there's no like there's no like well I have to stop working or I need a break from taking care of the kids. Yeah, because I have some congestion
Sonny00:03:58No, no and I can't sleep I can't sleep because I start like I like I have to breathe through my mouth and Then that leads to like snoring depending on how I'm I'm laying I've got to put on I have to put on like chapstick at night like a like a Podcast content like a fancy lad. I'm wearing chapstick at night to keep from from my lips hurting It's the worst Anyway, my the my my only my only real thought here is I spent an unusual amount of time yesterday Trying to figure out which decongestants don't have acetaminophen in them and I as best as I can tell it's like Sudafed That's not it. That's that's like that's like the only but I didn't have any
JVL00:04:42If you get the well, there's a there's a motion
Sonny00:04:44So I eventually I eventually I had the like eventually I went to the CVS and I I tried to buy Sudafed They didn't have any Sudafed because everybody's got whatever this is right see the minivan So I got what's that? Are you allergic to acetaminophen? No, it's just that I have four of decongestants that all have acetaminophen in them So I don't want to I don't want to just take like six doses of it a day I don't want to max out it's on the I want to I want to stack my I want to stack my Pain killers, you know for I'm allergic to NSAIDs JVL. Oh, have I ever told you that? Yeah, isn't that well, isn't that like all of them? Isn't that like except for acetaminophen?
Mike00:05:23interesting so like Advil Aleve aspirin I one time I was I had a headache. I was driving across Nebraska for work for a story and I took some aspirin and my throat started to close up And it was a dis I was like, oh, I guess I'm allergic to this and the doctor was like, yeah You you're later was like, yeah, you're allergic to it. So don't take that stuff. Did you die? I did and I came back I Came back in and then as I always thought I would I resurrected in the middle of the plains of
Sonny00:05:59Nebraska, so well, that is and I lived to tell the tale. That's a proper American resurrection right there That's why I hope I hope you feel better something. Yeah, exactly I I do. I also hope I feel better. Thank you. Mike. Thank you
Mike00:06:15No, all right Well, I guess I have I guess I have stuff going on. I should I should talk about before we Mike what's going on, buddy? What so what is going on? I? Believe I Talked about this on the pod before my oldest and I are getting ready for our one-on-one Dad and son father and son trip to Orlando And we're gonna be there in two weeks time From from where we are now to do the Wizarding World of Harry Potter and other Universal stuff and I I'm of course in the comments if you want to share any of your advice about Going to these parks. I'm open to hearing it. But I'm in a situation where I've like gone down these rabbit holes of like looking up too much guides and advice and YouTube videos of how to do it because it's the kind of thing where like for me it's like a big expenditure of money on something that I don't really know anything about and I Really want to make it work because it might be the only time that my oldest goes to Orlando like as a as a kid and So I'm intensely worried about it, but I feel like I've I've over prepared for this for this trip in a way where like
Sonny00:07:45It's sunny. You're shaking your head. You think there's no way not over prepare for these you cannot over there to cut They're all complicated as hell All of these parks have become like all of these parks have become low-key IQ tests to like figure out to Like separate the like dummies who just kind of come in like oh, I want to see Mickey and the people who are like I'm doing 17 rides a day. I'm getting up at 6:00 a.m. Going to bed at 10:00 p.m.. And I you know I don't I don't know what the Universal parks are like But the the Disney parks have like have have they just have hit this like I don't even know what I don't even know how to describe it, but it's it's super complicated
Mike00:08:26We actually have a barrier to entry. It's a barrier to entry
Sonny00:08:29Isn't it well, it's not it's not a barrier to entry you can you can buy a ticket you can go But it's a barrier to it's a barrier to getting the most out of your experience if the thing that you value So here's here's the question like if the thing you value most is time Right if the thing you value most is I only have two days here So I want to do as much as possible then that means you value money less So you spend more money to do more things right? That's basically how it works That's that's it's one of these situations where you throw money at the Problem in it it kind of might even say except it doesn't use money It doesn't except it does not go away because like it's not even after you throw the money at it It's insanely complicated. I don't know what the Universal parks are like but we so we went to Disney World right? And we had a we had a woman like a travel a Disney travel guide like it does I don't know like a Disney concierge or something who like Walked us through the whole process of like alright. You're gonna get your bands. You're gonna go here You're gonna go to the park at this time. You're gonna do this ride first. You're gonna do blah blah blah I don't know if Universal
Mike00:09:29Harry Potter is like that is it they they they probably do have that I have not availed myself of it because a couple things one It does seem to be much simpler than Disney The the whole setup the whole kind of I mean, it's certainly they're smaller On on the whole they're smaller fewer rides. There's fewer parks. There's basically two parks plus a water park They're building a third park. That's gonna open maybe later this year, but For right now, there's there's there's the the Universal Studios and the Islands of Adventure and It turns out actually that like chat GPT can actually do a fairly decent job of Just kind of sifting through all of the ridiculous like guides that are online and kind of actually come up with We're all written by chat GPT. Yeah
Sonny00:10:24So so what what's gonna happen here is Mike's gonna wind up at the Florida project hotel For his did you guys see the Florida project? Is this no, I know, but I know what it's about I know the Florida project is a movie by Sean Baker about one of the like ghetto hotels outside of Disney World Not not a Disney property. It's like a it's like a motel that is how that is There are prostitutes and stuff living in there and and the story is a the story is about this this mom and her little girl and they live in the in there and Willem Dafoe is like the but like there's a very funny sequence where a A newlywed couple shows up to the ghetto hotel and is like the wife is like you promised me We were staying at a Disney hotel and and we're here and I'm I'm angry at you We're getting divorced and like that is that's basically what Mike is gonna
JVL00:11:13Like to alibi. I would like to alibi the theme parks here Because I think what has happened is not their fault. It's the fault of society. We have taken Yeah, visiting the theme parks and turned it into this Competitive gamified idea where you have to win the visit By getting the most things done and the only way to do that is to spreadsheet it and research it and then I feel like We are better than all these suckers walking around who don't know how to get the most fun Out of this we're gonna get so much fun here in disney
Mike00:11:52Yeah, there are like mba types who who have like, yeah Who have arbitraged it
JVL00:11:59Just just go to the go to disney and walk around and be in wonder and if you get on seven rides instead of 13 rides Like I don't know. Nobody's keeping score. You didn't lose So I funny you are looking at this
Sonny00:12:15Is losers losers talk right there? That's that's fucking you have fun with your seven little you do aladdin's carpet ride three times All right, i'll uh, i'll make sure I get on i'll be on space mountain again
Mike00:12:29bitches I don't even like space mountain jvl's just on the teacups the whole time. Um, so no, I like the mad hatter teacups There you go. Uh No, I would say that my approach is probably I'm trying to be closer to jvl's. Uh Mindset on this which is the one thing is we have a lot of time. We're going to actually end up being there for three almost three full days um In my son or in the parks in the parks We're staying at A universal official universal hotel. Yeah, um We are you think sort of
Sonny00:13:05According to chat gpt According to chat gpt chat gpt assures you that Mr. Mr Uh, michael j fox's back to the future hotel is number one hotel in universal area
Mike00:13:19Anyway, uh, but we're We're uh Like my my son is like not Like this is going to be a Test to see if he's going to be into like roller coasters And things he's not expressed an interest in the past and Situations where we've been and we've been to dollywood and uh, lego land and and and things the whole family. Um so like the rides may not be as important but like the Experience of walking through the two particularly the two wizard areas Which is again It's just a small It's just one part of each park um like it we I feel like We will have the time To just be together and just be in this place. Um, I just want to make sure that i'm not Leaving something out Or like not taking advantage of something Mostly because of all the money. I'm I feel like i'm spending on this trip
JVL00:14:18So, but if you don't know what you're missing, then it doesn't matter does it?
Mike00:14:22But I know that I but see it doesn't work that way. I know that i'm Not knowing what i'm missing If I don't know what i'm missing, do you know what i'm saying? So i've never been to the i've never been to the universal parks
Sonny00:14:35Um, what what is the what is the harry potter world? Like it's like it's like diagon alley and uh, Is it hogwarts?
Mike00:14:44Let me tell you so the um in universal studios the section Uh that is harry potter themed is london and diagon alley Um, and so there's like a ride there There are several shops like In diagon alley, uh, and then where the gringotts ride is Uh, correct the gringotts ride. Um, that looks pretty cool It does look really cool. Um, and then that is the king's cross train station And the king's cross train station is where you can get on and take the train Which is basically a ride in and of itself if you've purchased the correct pass the park to park ticket Yes, jvl. I know you got the park hopper. I got the park
JVL00:15:26You gotta buy it's gonna buy two entry fees To get to both sides of harry potter. They're not idiots
Mike00:15:32Yeah, totally. Um, it's fine, but like I know that that's what they're doing Anyway, then you can take it across to islands of adventure Uh, and that is hogsmeade And hogwarts castle and so that's where there's a couple of other rides over there Uh, and there are some other kind of shops and things. Um And and that's kind of it. I mean, you know, it's not very big but there's apparently hermione's grotto is
JVL00:15:59Hogwarts, I forget what rick said the hermione grotto Hermione ranger grotto is right. I I I don't know. I will i'll report back club
Mike00:16:09I'll i'll report back. Um Anyway, so though so it should be good and they're in a bathrobe Specto patronum, uh, all right. So, uh, anyway, we're we're looking forward to it. Um, and it's just it's that it's that thing where I feel prepared I hope i'm prepared, but i'm also hoping I can just let go Be in the moment man with my son exactly live in the present That's how I do it. Anyway I I that that that surprises me a little bit jvl does not sound right that sounds
Sonny00:16:46Something doesn't sound like fake news to me, frankly
Mike00:16:49Uh, anyway, all right. Well, that's what's going on with me. Uh, Shall we talk quickly box office because number one at the box office? is den of thieves No, oh den of thieves 2 pantera. We can talk about better man here real quick. Um den of thieves 2 pantera Is number one at the box office this week and we're talking about later in the show den of thieves one Uh a new a new hope of den of thieves, um, the original film from 2018, but den of thieves 2 Getting number one at the box office. Sonny jvl. Are we surprised by this?
JVL00:17:26What I had never heard of this movie until you guys texted me
Sonny00:17:29say so den of thieves is an interesting movie because it was uh It was it was it was not it was not like a big hit It didn't flop exactly, but it was like kind of one of these like mid-budget mid-range, uh actioner movies from lion's gate star gerard butler It's like kind of a typical gerard butler movie gerard butler plays a greasy cop, you know We're gonna talk more about that Movie in a minute because we're doing we're reviewing the first one not the second one. Um uh, but den of thieves has become kind of a uh cause Celebrity on film twitter, right? So like movie movie people really there. There's a segment of movie people who are very vocal and Uh, really love this movie really like it's basically like they're miami vice um, and uh, it is It's well like look it's it's a it's a fine The thing about this movie is that it does a couple things very very well. It's like 30 minutes too long um, uh, but like it's it's 40 minutes But it's but it's also but it's also it is also literally This is the the the partisans of this movie get very mad when you call it this But it is it is either meathead heat or dirtbag heat depending on how nice depending on These are these are not pejoratives. These are just descriptives like it is it's uh, it's it is it again We'll talk about this more in a minute Um, but anyway, it's become this like big thing a lot of people really champion it it opened to 15 million dollars In I'd open it. I'm sorry. I opened a 15.2 million dollars in 2018 when it was released and it opened this weekend, you know, there's all this buzz There's seven years of excitement building for Den of Thieves 2 everyone is can't wait to get back to Big Nick's adventures
Mike00:19:14With Donnie feel it. You could feel it out there in America could feel it in the world
Sonny00:19:19this and it opened a 15.0 million dollars in in 2025 Den of Thieves 2 so I like the the lesson as always is that Twitter is not real and that and there
JVL00:19:31There is a limited market for this sort of thing, but also like a straight-to-dvd or straight-to-vod movie Nothing about this looks like either of them nothing about this looks like it should like it would be a mainstream theatrical release This looks like it would be Robocop 7 or any number of the you know, Universal Soldier 15
Sonny00:19:55I think I think the movie I think it's actually Better than that. I think it's better than that But it's definitely like it's a B movie. It's it's it's a B movie. It's a it's a B Cops and robbers movie which is like there's nothing wrong with this is like the sort of movie that Gerard Butler's made To make right like anyway, so anyway, Den of Thieves 2 opens top of the top of the charts good for it I you know, this movie is gonna make most of its money on VOD and DVD slash blu-ray sales anyway, Nosferatu Is creeping up there 80 81 million now? It's headed towards a hundred billion, which is a big number frankly for that movie again I like I'm I'm pretty surprised by how well it's doing
Mike00:20:41And then there's can we talk about sorry? I don't mean to derail us Can we talk about better man now because yeah, and then there's and then there's better number 13
Sonny00:20:49There's better man, which opens opens at number or well opens wide It had been playing in limited release for a couple of weeks, but it opens wide at number 13 with One point zero six million dollars for an average of eight hundred twenty four dollars per screen Repeat that. It's what was one million one million million dollars with a million dollars Which is not a lot of money for a motion a major motion picture to gross on I think it's on twelve hundred screens thirteen hundred screens something like that 1290 screen 1291 1291 That's Not a very good number And this whole movie is incredibly baffling to me. So I'm gonna explain to you. I've seen it I've seen it we get where I can tell you if the movie is any good or not But here's the setup of the movie. The movie is a musical biopic in the style of Rocketman Or something like that Except it's about Robbie Williams the the British pop star Robbie Williams. Yeah and He plays himself as a CGI monkey That's that's that's the it's it's opening I'm in how's this not opening a hundred million dollar It's a biopic. Well, so here's so here's here's the problem with the movie, right? They pitched it to audiences as again It's it the the trailer for this movie has a monkey looking into the camera saying I'm Robbie Williams as if that's supposed to mean anything to American audiences, it doesn't mean anything to American audiences because American audiences have no idea who Robbie Williams is that does not does not exist to us. He's not a person as far as we know He's one of these fake celebrities from he's curtains for Zuchka but in the pop pop star form Uh and and I find this marketing choice Baffling I find this marketing choice baffling because there is a way to market this movie and the way you market this movie is look at this CGI monkey doing loads of drugs and getting handjobs and clubs and Fighting versions of himself in a giant stadium full Like there's there's a version of this movie that leans into the wackiness of the concept and it's just like look at how crazy all of this stuff is and that movie I think opens a little better than this I don't know that it opens well enough to justify the 110 million dollar budget for this picture now Paramount only paid I think 25 million for domestic like an Alibaba production or something It is one so it's one so I went to see it and again my main thoughts on the movie going into it We're a the marketing is bad and be who spent this much money on it and the first two title cards in the as the movie started were for production houses that are very clearly China based So this is so this is an elaborate so one of two things has happened somebody Has gone to China and said look at this great pop star. He sold 75 million Records around the world look at look at the success of Bohemian Rhapsody We can make so much money with this movie, and it's got a really interesting hook. He's gonna play a month CGI monkey That's why I need to be so expensive blah blah blah and some Chinese person was like. Oh, yeah, this is great Let's do it, or it's an elaborate Money laundering scheme it's one of the two it might be both or they might be both at the same time It's entirely possible that it's both at the same time so yeah, better man is um I Don't know man. It's it's not very even with the wackiness of the monkey. It's not very good It's really it's a hundred and it is a 135 minute ode to parental neglect The the movie the entire movie is about Robbie Williams being sad because he His parent his father abandoned him. He doesn't doesn't love him. So like that's basically so JVL go ahead now
JVL00:25:05I just wanted to know because again we talked about this on text a little bit Who is the analog a person who is so unbelievably famous in America that they are a household presence? somebody who we have known through music and reality TV and tabloids But who if we were to go over to England this person could literally Just walk through the street and know we totally anonymously So it'd be like Oprah
Mike00:25:35Billy Joel, so the the problem is the problem with that. This is that America Exports its pop culture all over the world. So like if it's popular in America, it's hard to find something That's popular in America. That is also not popular Somewhere else and especially in english-speaking countries, even if it's not the most popular thing. It's at least known Enough right like like American musicians go over to England For for tours all the time movies are, you know, American movies are played every now, but there's gonna be something like American talk TV Culture is why I said like Oprah maybe because I don't think the upper Winfrey show Ran on BBC one. Yeah, but Oprah is I feel like Oprah is too big of a personality to not be
JVL00:26:25Maybe an American football player. Maybe like Tom Brady could like
Sonny00:26:29Well, that's something maybe maybe it would have to be like a it would have to be a football or a baseball player But like even then I like it's funny because I was just thinking like try some walk around
JVL00:26:40New York City and nobody would know who he was well
Sonny00:26:42That's that's the thing right is that like there are very few baseball players who would like stop traffic in America Like I guess Tom Brady probably would or like I don't know Gee, I I don't know. I was I was somebody so somebody on social media because I had posted
Mike00:26:59I had sent this screenshot of this question somebody had asked on social media and somebody had mentioned George Strait the country music star It would something like that, which is kind of niche anyway But like like ever like you can go anywhere any state in the country and like people will know who George Strait is He sold a gazillion records like has no footprint in England Unlike say Garth Brooks or Dolly Parton who who have toured in England and it's not as if country music is in entirely unpopular there, but We have to be something like that or like Jerry Springer. Maybe go back to talk show hosts
JVL00:27:37Like yeah, right knows who Jerry is a pretty good ball
Mike00:27:41It might have to be sort of it's like it's like somebody who's ubiquitous Kim Kardashian. It's like it's three tiers lower
Sonny00:27:48No, everybody knows Kim Kardashian. Is she an international thing? Yeah, but Instagram she's on Instagram, which is pretty pretty exactly Global through the English-speaking world, I think all right, so
Mike00:27:58Sorry, I'm gonna back up to real quick before we move on to Robbie Williams himself So like so I did not know about this movie until I saw the trailer when I went to see the Bob Dylan movie And I was baffled and I was like, oh, yeah, Robbie Williams and it brought back these memories of of First hearing about Robbie Williams when I was a kid Because I don't know if you had this if you guys had this but like our our so our class yearbook company at the end Of every yearbook would have like several years. They had like an insert That was that was like produced for yearbooks across the across the country it was sort of like a yearbook for like world events and sports and pop culture and that sort of thing and I remember In you know, whenever this was like 1998 1999 in the music section this giant picture of Somebody I'd never seen before named Robbie Williams Thank you, Justin Rob Yeah, Justin sir, whoever it's like Robbie Williams sold Some number of and I was like, I never heard of this person in my life and it was always like For for a couple of years after that. I was always like fascinated because it was like I wasn't going out Where did you find wasn't going to buy Robbie Williams? I was just sort of like well, I ever Well, I ever know who this person is and the answer was no and I even after This movie came out. I was like, what was his biggest hit? Let me go YouTube that millennium some song millennium Some song called angels. It was apparently his biggest hit not in America. Not in America in America
Sonny00:29:42In America his biggest hit was a song called millennium which came out like right around 2000 and I remember I I saw that I saw that I used to see that on like TRL, right? It was on it was on Total Request live That's the only place I ever saw it and I was like, oh that's kind of yeah All right. That's an interesting song. I had no idea at the time that Robbie Williams was an Enormous enormous head and it's so funny It's so funny when you tell The rest of the english-speaking world that Americans have no idea who Robbie Williams is because they're like what do you mean you have no? Idea who Robbie will what how do you not know who Robbie Williams is? It's like I don't he's just not he didn't he didn't make It here. He's not he's not a he's not a big deal. He's like blur, you know, it's like we don't we don't We don't we have Oasis. That's we have The Spice Girls, you know the other thing that's very funny in this movie is that like there's there's this whole sequence where he he is married to a Singer from the band All Saints, which is like a British girl group there was like a girl a girl band like Spice Girls, but shitty and They and like the whole sequence is like You know these two people and they're and they're in and there's like a brief moment where they interact with Oasis and it's like Oh, I know them those people I know Liam Gallagher, Noel Gallagher. I know those guys, but the rest of these pikers who the fuck are they?
Mike00:31:05Alright, well, I will I will just the last thing I'll say about this is like two weeks after I saw that trailer I started seeing on my like Instagram targeted ads for better man that were like Like you they were basically like leaning into you've never heard of this and you probably think this is weird but you'll be surprised that you would like this movie and I just thought that's that's that's that's the absolute best case that can be made for it
Sonny00:31:34You know this guy is doesn't matter monkey doing drugs monkey. You got drug monkey Should have called the movie they frankly they should have called the movie drug monkey and then and then just been like just had our like the red band trailers of monkeys doing lines of cocaine and Chugging bottles of vodka and being like look at the silly monkey singing his songs the Brits the Brits trained up Monkey, can you believe it that would have been a much better much better ad campaign is better man a song that he sings How on earth would I know that how on how on earth would any American know the answer to that question you could put any Two words together look like I guess Robbie Williams saying that song
JVL00:32:17What's that JV? I said does Sonny look like a limey? He lived there he lived there
Mike00:32:26Yeah, let's let's let's let's move on here and Talk about Den of Thieves the prequel the original to the number one box-office movie Whatever, you know the original the OG of the number one movie That these one Sonny you want to give us a big-boy review of this 2018? movie Den of Thieves
Sonny00:32:49Den of Thieves written and directed by Christian good a guest who I Will talk more about him in a minute Anyway, Den of Thieves is as I said before essentially you could elevator pitch this as dirtbag heat, right? The the Setup is very similar to heat you have it's basically for people who shop at Walmart Let's not let's not cast aspersions. I'm sorry. Is it is that wrong?
JVL00:33:21The you know what I mean when I say there's a machine I bought something at Walmart and I shop at Walmart. All right
Sonny00:33:28Okay. All right. All right. Let's let's keep it. Let's keep our snobbery and check here the the the The set up here is again. It's very much like heat it's 50 it's basically 50% from the perspective of the robbers a group of Thieves who in the opening segment just like in heat rip off an armored car Massive fight for different reasons and there's a massive gunfight It's really a combination of the the opening sequence of heat and the street shootouts that comes about two Thirds of the way through heat, right? Yeah and Trying to track down these thieves who the gang of thieves which is led by Knock off Colin Kaepernick. Did you did that did did that guy look exactly like Colin Kaepernick to you guys? Cuz he looks nothing like you don't think it looks like anyway I always I so I think that guy looks like knockoff Colin Kaepernick and then there's this there's this guy with this massive Bulbous forehead who looks like knockoff Michael Kelly the guy from House of Cards Yes, and a Man of Steel he played a Jimmy Jimmy Olsen or somebody in man. I can't oh, yeah Anyway And then and then you have O'Shea Jackson jr. Who's knockoff ice cube because he's literally ice cube son
JVL00:34:42Oh, is he that's funny because I kept saying that that dude looks just like ice cube, right?
Sonny00:34:51This is my point like all of all of these guys are like different looking like slightly different looking versions of similar guys anyway uh They they are being chased by big Nick Who's played by Gerard Butler and his team of cops, but these are bad cops guys. These are cops with an edge They they bad guys. They're there. They're the real bad guys. They're a clique. They're a gang They're gonna come after the criminals and they're gonna get them big Nick is drinking a swillin Pepto at the crime scene He's putting his doughnuts on bodies. He's it's just a it's just a you know, he's a tough guy. He's kind of greasy He's greasy and straight his hair's all stringy like you can tell he means business. He's serious He's willing to slap a guy around if he needs to get some information. He's not he's not playing by the rules There's no good cop bad plays by his own rules good cop left for the day guys. Well, you just got bad cop now So anyway, um that movie is a series of cliches. It's a series of cliches on top of cliches
JVL00:35:53And he's so damn much sunny. He loves love so damn much
Sonny00:35:58But he loves his kids, but you know, he messes up sometimes and his wife leaves him bitch That you know, and we're never shut up, you know, you know Anyway Then the movie and then a there's there's a fairly intricate heist again much like heat There's a fairly intricate heist that they really go in depth into explaining. There's no like you're not you're not gonna like Get lost in the plot of this movie like heat is a movie where some time like a lot of people have to watch heat a couple of times to catch exactly what is happening with the big heist at The end like Mike some of our slower friends who shop at Walmart they they're the the they need they need a couple of watch this movie does a very good job of Going through point by point I was stealing this truck and we're gonna go here and we're gonna go but then there's a big twist at the end like the Usual suspects like you basically see the cup of coffee fall out of Gerard Butler's hand as he puts it all together
JVL00:36:58Because throughout the entire good Detailing of how the heist is going to work all I could think about was the scene from the instigators Where Matt Damon says to the guys laying? Oh, how do you know all this? Like what are you on Zillow? Where'd you get these floor plans from you? Do you know this guy isn't gonna pull a gun what he's done a full psychological profile
Mike00:37:18Because there is a moment there is a moment where somebody a character does ask how do you know all this?
JVL00:37:23And he's like he says don't worry about it. It's solid How because he's got reams of data and can tell you every single piece of procedure And where they wait a minute, man. How do you know all this? Don't worry about it. It's solid Okay Gotcha. Gotcha
Sonny00:37:46Anyway, anyway the movie so so there's this big action sequence at the end and then there's a lot of like hanging out and talking and investigating for like an hour and a half for like an hour and 40 minutes there's talking and an investigating and Baba and then there's a big action sequence at the end Which again is like it's it's once again. It's like a redux of the heat street shootout But also with like a little bit of the way of the gun alley fight. You remember the where they go like car-to-car the I Like this movie fine there again there there are people who really love den of thieves There are real den of thieves partisans out there who are very very into this movie I think it's fine. I enjoy it fine. It is a perfect b-movie cops and robbers action thriller with just enough action to Pay off that again interminable stretch in the middle where they're just Just a lot of talking and hanging out and they're not like again. These are dirtbags, so it's not like real smart talk It's it's not clever the dialogue here isn't really clever, but it is but it I Like I do enjoy the little set piece sequences like when the gang is they're all at fake Colin Kaepernick's or no They're at 50 cents house. They're 50 cents. I forgot 50 cent is in this movie. He's great Curtis Jackson 50 cent in this movie He is the he's his daughter is going off to the prom And he takes the date back to the room where all of the gang members are lifting weights And there's like a bunch of guys never even seems But a bunch of guys who like don't show up anywhere else in the movie and And they intimidate him and I like that I like watching young men be intimidated by one of the best scenes of the movie There there are a bunch of great little scenes like that, and that's why I don't mind that it goes on a million hours too long It is what it is. I like I like this movie fine. It's great. I'm it's it's fine again It's fine. I'm glad that they made a sequel the sequel has even more talking guys the sequel the sequel Let me tell you the sequel does not have that Big action scene at the beginning and that action and the action scene at the end is like very perfunctory It's almost like you need an action scene huh fine. We're gonna throw one in instead. It's just two and a half hours of Russell Crowe and O'Shea Jackson jr. Hanging out together. It's almost a buddy comedy. It's Russell Crowe I'm sorry not Russell fake Russell Gerard Butler
Mike00:40:28It's because Gerard Butler is seven years older than when he made the last one I mean, there's as we saw with Russell Crowe like it's a lot better to do your acting sitting down and talking Rather than like running around, uh Okay. Well, well, there you have it JVL. You have thoughts about this movie share them with us. I mean, it's it's terrible
JVL00:40:51And yet awesome At it at an hour 45. This would be an absolute cult classic as It is I think it's it's too much - it's too much to watch more than like twice You could probably watch this movie twice and get everything you'll ever get out of it But the what you're leaving out here Sonny is that Gerard Butler is Playing his character like he's Nick Cage in Bad Lieutenant Port of Call New Orleans Remember that Werner Herzog movie? Where Nick Cage is giving this absolutely unhinged performance as a cop gone wrong And he's just it's a study of ham and cheese and that's what Gerard Butler does Throughout the entire I've never seen Gerard Butler do this this like absolutely over-the-top Like normally he's America's sad dad And not in this in this he is just like why what about 300 he was over the top in 300
Mike00:41:58like this
Sonny00:42:00There's a lot of scene. No, have you ever seen gamer?
JVL00:42:04No
Sonny00:42:05So gamer gamer is a movie where he gets to be kind of again greasy and dirty and over-the-top. He plays anyway a
JVL00:42:12Similar type role. It's a it's a pastiche. And so here's how I would I would describe it it is If somebody said I want you to make heat but make it with the Consent of the first Fast and the Furious movie
?00:42:32and
JVL00:42:33I want the whole thing to be written as if it was written by Nick Cage In What was what was the movie with him and Pedro Pascal where he's playing himself like the unbearable greatness of one weight of great talent or whatever, but it's just it's insane and And yet it's way better than it should be it's very competently directed and the cast of supporting characters I Just think it's great casting because every supporting character even guys you only get like four lines from They have interesting faces and interesting voices and that's enough Like that really is enough just interesting faces and interesting voices So you just think to yourself? Oh that guy over there Bob's oh or whatever his name is the guy who looks like flea Bosco Bosco, he's interesting. I would like to see a little more Of him he's interesting right the where did this Cro-Magnon come from yeah? The whole the big dude who is the foster dad in the Shazam movies is in this says yes He's great. You're like yeah, that guy seems interesting. I want to spend more time you want to spend more time with ice cubes kid He's a very interesting character and the whole thing I don't know like it's again I An hour 45 this would be an absolute go to hey. I want to watch a wheels-off crazy Bat shit movie let's put this in it's gonna be super fun at 220 it Just is too too big for that role to slot that into your life And the extent to which it the parallels to heat I mean again The the lead cop is on the downslope of a marriage with some troubled troubled daughters who he doesn't quite know how to save and though the wife is Has an effete I forget who played the effete boyfriend in In heat remember like you know Pacino shows up, and there's a guy with the TV like The it is the amount of time spent with the private lives of the bad guys and their gangs You get to see their home life. Just like you It's It's shocking it is it is like somebody saying let's you know in 1979 or something I want to make a real space opera with I don't know they'll have some big gigantic floating battle station that can blow up whole planets and the guys use laser swords Let's do that Can imagine someone saying yeah, somebody made a great movie like that once let's do that again
Sonny00:45:17Yeah, yeah, yeah, Xander Berkeley is who you were thinking of Great Berkeley That's that's who the that's who the effete. Oh, yes. That's right Xander Berkeley does play that guy
JVL00:45:28Yep, yeah, great great character actor loves. Oh, I don't know Michael. Did you did you enjoy it?
Mike00:45:35Again, I had never heard of this movie before same So let me let me say I have a couple of like just disparate thoughts First of all Sonny. I I didn't have time to look this up. So how many acting awards did 50 cent? Win for this role because I mean he is just in he's incredible in this I mean what he was he was
Sonny00:45:58Six with this he was nominated for an Oscar. I don't think he won
Mike00:46:02With the six lines that he had in this movie. I mean he made those work
JVL00:46:05Oh, hey, I'm sorry hold the phone the guy who you said was dime-store Colin Kaepernick He's actually leaves Scriber's half-brother. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say he's good They don't really look alike they couldn't be oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, he's
Mike00:46:25He plays the main One of the main characters in the second season of the wire. He's one of the sabaca got a brothers the the young Polish Longshoremen Union guy anyway Yeah, so that's that was my first thought 50 cent I Guess that's the extent of his acting abilities is like you can get six lines out of it. I Thought the LA that they depicted in this So on the one hand, I love that. We saw parts of LA that I don't feel like show up in a lot of movies Just suburban LA. It's suburban LA, but it's like it's like South LA right like Sam. That was it Sam Pedro or I can't remember the the neighborhood. It's like down. It's down like on the bay kind of near Long Beach So I did love seeing that I was it felt to me like there weren't enough cars For it to be LA like Until the very end when there was a scene where they need there to be a traffic jam I was like, where are all the cars like where's all this traffic? I hear so much about in LA. Um, I Agree JVL about the length like I think there was like 56 minutes left when I paused it to see how much time was left and I was thinking there were like 20 minutes left and It was I began to question a lot of the choices I made that that led me to like Having to sit through another hour of this movie
JVL00:48:02But I I loved it too like I was having a great time the whole time. I love this would have been a TNT instant classic a thousand percent
Mike00:48:14It's exactly what I thought up. This is cable movie classic written all over it And it's just a little too flabby for it The only thing they they the only thing they need to do was just like just strip out all the family Stuff like I don't care. I do not care about About Gerard Butler's family like I don't care Don't need it also never gets resolved right like the the he like says goodbye to the one daughter At the fence at the school rise in his car and then he cries in his heart. It's a minute 15
JVL00:48:50That is a minute 15 of screen time with him sitting too much in his car. I'm just like
Sonny00:48:56because that what that's Happening that's the movie christian gouda guest wanted to there's a there's an extended cut of this movie that has 13 minutes more family stuff
JVL00:49:06In it like they're not not extra shootouts or anything like that a little kid from the the Hollywood I would tell whatever that was the the Quentin Tarantino, Hollywood
Mike00:49:20That's some of the best acting I've ever seen
JVL00:49:24Somebody that little girl came up to Gerard Butler after he cried in the car and she said That was some of the best acting I've ever seen
Mike00:49:31The the the problem also with this movie as you guys have alluded to with heat and the usual suspects is it? Like the whole time I kept thinking of other movies that it reminded me of like the whole the whole sequence in where Where you know little ice cube it gets out of the thing reminds me of Ocean's Eleven You know where he gets out of the thing with the cash and it's like trying to maneuver his way out and And and even the stuff I was even thinking of Die Hard when he's like in the For the air shots, you know walking. Yeah, exactly. So And it does everything is telegraphed, right? Like it's like again a dum-dum knows what's going on in this movie. So But I still loved it it was fun. I did something so you boys
JVL00:50:22Yes, I did something. It's not quite a ranking But I put together the list Down which people go for casting Before they hit Gerard Butler So you are gonna make a movie and in your perfect world. It's like a B action movie. Maybe it's a Netflix movie Maybe it's a premium VOD. Maybe it's maybe could even go theatrical Chris Hemsworth is your guy, right? If you can't get Chris Hemsworth It'd be great to get Jamie Foxx or Will Smith Right. Those guys are really Really great. Can't get them maybe Mark Wahlberg Can't get Mark Wahlberg. I mean the cage is a little old but he can still do it Can't get Nick Cage Jason Statham will do anything right Jason Statham He's got a brand and people know what they're getting with a Jason Statham movie and they'll they'll do it And if you can't get Jason Statham Then you called Gerard Butler And if he says no you go to Liam Hemsworth
Sonny00:51:28No, these are these are these are all different types of movies These are all different so like you go you go to Chris Hemsworth you go to Chris Hemsworth for like the big franchise movie that's what that's where you go to Chris Chris Hemsworth for for the for the Like for the for the second tier of like 30 to 40 million dollar action movie You don't do Nick Cage anymore. He's doing like the 10 million dollar VOD movies, right? He Right, I would say I would say like I would not say Jason Statham and Gerard Butler Are interchangeable Jason Statham is I think a a safer bet he has better Box office, but like Jason Statham is one and Gerard Butler is one a you are under you are under rating Gerard Butler's draw between between the between the has fallen movies Greenland plane Kandahar was was a my like he he gets he gets enough people in seats to justify what is probably a 10 million dollar salary
Mike00:52:27Yeah, can I can I say something about that because when I was suggesting? To my wife. Hey, do you want to watch this movie with me? I've got to do it for the show She was like, what is it about and I was like, I have no idea what it's about and she's like, well You need to look up what it's about to tell me a little bit night told her It's like cops and and bad guys and stuff and she's like, well who's in it? And as soon as I said Gerard Butler She goes. Oh, yeah, I like him. I'll watch it like So like Butler first, they do love Gerard Butler So and isn't he also in the how to train your dragons like didn't he cash in on on the how to drain your dragon? as well, so like but like that's like a that's like That's bankable that they just speaking of Universal They're they're doing a how to train your dragon land in the new Universal Orlando theme park. So I can Add things like pretty thin. There's like three or four of them. I don't know. I've never watched any of them But but he's in that so personally It's cute. Um, that's boring All right. Okay. All right. All right. Well any other thoughts on den of thieves? Or do all of our favorites come back sunny in den of thieves 2 electric boogaloo
Sonny00:53:41In den of thieves 2 you get big Nick big Nick is back Ice Cube jr. Is back And my favorite character who returns is the FBI agent who Gerard Butler like bickers with the whole time They're like friends now. They're like, you know They're They're like, you know casual enemies their frenemies, you know, it's it's it's very cute It's very cute when he comes back in the scene, but I think that's basically it they abandoned like all his family stuff is gone It's all good. That's all do they go to that's all gone To make space for the hanging out in Europe with they don't get outer space in the second sadly. No, okay
Mike00:54:22Okay. Well that is all the time that we're gonna give to this episode Remember join us over at sub beacon calm new episodes every Friday. Tell your friends tell your family leave a comment and we'll talk to you next time JVL JVL it's funny that you mentioned Jamie Foxx and Gerard Butler because they were in the competing Olympus has fallen and White House down. Oh, yeah, that's right
JVL00:54:53They were on either side that Olympus is fall, which I always get confused
Sonny00:54:57About Olympus fallen is so much better than White House down white White House down was like Emmerich. Yeah, it was it was emmerich. It was like too jokey. I'll go like I'll go you one better Olympus It's fallen is actually pretty good. I think I have long argued that Olympus has fallen is a very is is a great high concept Action thriller. I mean it it does what it does perfectly. Yeah, I think that's right. Like it's a very well executed diehard Yeah, yeah, it's it's diehard in the building
JVL00:55:27I'm sure it's fine
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