#284. 'Yacht Rock: A Dockumentary'
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The main event is Yacht Rock: A Dockumentary (Max/HBO), the 96-minute Bill Simmons-produced documentary on the soft-pop/rock scene of the late '70s and early '80s, and it's a rare unanimous rave. Sonny loves its structural discipline — no academic talking heads imposing a "morning in America" thesis, just musicians explaining the actual music theory, anchored by an early chart radiating out from Steely Dan into Toto, Michael McDonald, and Christopher Cross — and praises its rehabilitation of studio session players as serious craftsmen rather than overproduced hacks. JVL, who says the genre soundtracked (and irritated) his dentist's-office childhood before he fled into British synth-pop and then indie rock, goes in with rock-bottom expectations and comes out obsessed, marveling at how deep the musicianship runs (Toto's guy with thousands of session credits, a songwriting credit on Thriller) even though he still wouldn't choose to listen to any of it. Mike, the resident music-history nerd, is just as smitten, geeking out on the isolated Michael McDonald vocal tracks from "Peg," the Wrecking Crew lineage, a Beatles-vs.-Stones framework for where Steely Dan fits, and Thundercat's interview as the standout; he also floats a "butt rock" documentary of his own (Creed, Nickelback, Linkin Park) as the genre's spiritual descendant, and Sonny compares the yacht-rock scene's incestuous studio-musician camaraderie to the magazine-freelancer world of Shattered Glass. Before any of that, the first third is classic Sub-Beacon banter: Mike hosts solo-ish duties while JVL reports recovering from being sick, both Mike (Northern Virginia) and Sonny (Dallas) commiserate over never-ending snow days, and a detour into the LA wildfires (with Billy Crystal's lost home) spirals into disaster-movie riffing (Volcano vs. Dante's Peak, Armageddon vs. Deep Impact, an invented "Meg vs. Megan" B-movie). Box office chat covers Mufasa, Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (JVL begrudgingly softening on the Sonic franchise thanks to his son), and Nosferatu becoming Robert Eggers' highest domestic grosser ever — plus Sonny calling a second trip to Wicked, this time with his daughter, "the greatest act of parental love of all time," two drafthouse beers woefully insufficient for the runtime.
From the show notes
Takin' it to the streets!
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00It rocks, but it doesn't rock too hard. The singers all seem to be saying, hey, it's going to be okay. It's perfect sitting down dancing music. Also known as Yacht Rock.
Mike00:00:35Welcome to the Sub-Beacon podcast. I am your co-host, Mike Warren. Joining me as always are my two co-hosts who have a long way to go to make it to the border of Mexico, Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at subbeacon.com. Tell your friends and family that if they want to listen to this podcast, they've got to do it at subbeacon.com. Become a patron. Join the conversation in the comments. Get new episodes every Friday morning only at subbeacon.com, subbeacon.com. We're going to be talking about Yacht Rock later in the show, but first JVL, welcome back. You, you look and sound like you are feeling better.
JVL00:01:20It worked. I mean, sometimes when you feel your body getting sick, if you just stop everything and go to bed, you can dodge that bullet. And that's, that's, I did. So bravo. I'm grateful. Thank you guys for doing the show. It was a great show. I wouldn't have added anything. Anyway, you guys know so much more about, I honestly, I was thinking about it as I was listening to the show. I could not name a Bob Dylan song, not a single Bob Dylan song. And I'm sure I know, and I've heard dozens of Bob Dylan songs. Right. But I couldn't tell you if you played 10 songs for me and like three of them were Bob Dylan songs and the other seven were not, I couldn't tell you which were his and which were not. So
Mike00:02:04I, I think you're underestimating your abilities, but maybe not.
JVL00:02:09No, he's just, it's a, it's a, just a blind spot for me. Um, I'll tell you what I knew, know a lot of yacht rock. All right, well, this is the soundtrack of my childhood. I cannot wait to talk about this.
Mike00:02:25So, Uh, well, excellent. Well, we'll, uh, uh, that's a nice little tease there, Sonny, uh, what is going on with you? You, you have, you have snow on the ground in, in, uh, in Texas, correct? Yeah.
Sonny00:02:38We got some snow here. Uh, so kids are, kids are home for the next two days, which is fun. Uh, you know, every, every year in Dallas, we get like one ice storm. It feels like this is it. We get like one, one ice storm. One week stretch where it's like 20 degrees and icy and it's like, okay, I guess that's this week. Uh, I don't know. I think things are fine around here. Really? Uh, there's, there's been a, there hasn't been a ton going on cause the kids finally just went back to school on Tuesday. Of course you can't, you can't have kids go back to school after two weeks off on a Monday. Teachers need a planning day, you know, they need to plan what they, what they have to teach. So, uh, they, they didn't go back on. On Monday they went, they went back on Tuesday and then of course they're off for Thursday and Friday. So it's really, it's really great. Uh, it's really, things are, things are good here. Things are great.
Mike00:03:31Is that, is that any better than what I think the answer is? Yes. I'm answering my question before I finish asking it. Uh, then what we've had to deal with here in Northern Virginia, which is winter break has not ended, uh, because we've had the same one for four straight days of snow day. Three days. When the first day of school was supposed to be on Monday, uh, we're recording this on Thursday. It's likely that Friday is also going to be a snow day. So three full weeks of winter vacation, Christmas vacation. Love it.
Sonny00:04:04You love it. You love it. You love to have the kids around. Um, no, uh, it's not, it's not that bad. Look, it could be a million times worse. Could be what's happening in Los Angeles right now. What a nightmare out there. Uh, you know, I'm hearing from friends who were. Displaced and you know, uh, their, their coworkers have lost homes, et cetera. It's just a, a real disaster out there. Um, so, uh, you know, I, I should not, I, I am not complaining for the record. I am.
JVL00:04:36Okay. Can we, would it be, how tasteless would it be for me to say that? One of the many thoughts I have had after my horror and sympathy and empathy for all people affected by this granted, granted, this would make an amazing role in that movie.
Sonny00:04:59Well, the, the thing is it, the, the movie it actually reminds me of volcano volcano. Have you, have you seen volcano? I mean, it's, it's like the same, it's like the same basic thing, obviously. I mean, obviously not exactly the same, but it is very similar. Uh, it's a real life disaster movie, right? No, I mean, it's, it's mildly tasteless, but I think it's fine. I think it's appropriately tasteless. Um, the, the. Uh, where did you guys have a, did you guys prefer volcano to Dante's peak? Cuz I always preferred volcano to Dante's peak, Dante's peak was the poor man's volcano
Mike00:05:32in my, in my view, but they, they always do this, right? Right. There was, there was a lot of, a lot of sea and, um, what was the other, what was the better one? I prefer deep impact to Armageddon. Yeah. Deep impact.
Sonny00:05:43I mean, there were two shark movies. Armageddon was way better. Um, Armageddon understood what it was better than deep impacted. I think, uh, I think that's true. I think that's true. I think that's a rich sentimental blow shit up picture. Uh, I understand. I understand. The little Aerosmith. If you're not liking Armageddon. Armageddon, the thing about Armageddon is I understand the, that, that period of Michael Bay is very interesting. Cuz I understand people who don't like Michael Bay. I, I like, I disagree with them, but I understand it. Like I, you don't like the frenetic cutting and you know, all that stuff. Uh, but like the rock, people who don't like the rock are a mystery to me. I don't understand not liking the rock. That's a perfect action. Movie.
JVL00:06:22You know, I don't dislike the rock. It's good, but it's overrated. It's not. It's good.
Sonny00:06:30Not great. Uh, incorrect.
JVL00:06:32It's right. By the standards of Michael Bay. It's only good. Not great. Best Michael Bay movie might actually be transformers.
Sonny00:06:38No, it's ridiculous. It's not.
JVL00:06:40Haven't we had this discussion before?
Mike00:06:42Uh, by the way, the, the, the, the, the, the counterpart to deep blue sea that I was not, I was blanking on was Lake Placid. Those came back about the same time.
Sonny00:06:50Yeah. I think those are two very different movies though. Deep blue sea is a shark movie. Lake Placid is an alligator movie.
Mike00:06:56Yeah, but they're, they're, they're, they're crocodile movie monsters of the deep movies that came.
JVL00:07:01What we needed was about the same time. Lake Placid versus deep blue sea giant croc versus giant alligator. This is, this is what we need.
Mike00:07:11Lake Placid versus deep blue sea down river.
Sonny00:07:14I feel like that's basically the Meg too. Isn't it? Isn't that like more or less the plot? Isn't that like the Meg?
JVL00:07:21Something. Another giant thing hunting the Meg and the Meg too.
Sonny00:07:26I, I thought that maybe I didn't, I don't think I actually ever saw the Meg too. I saw the Meg one. I saw the Meg. I did not see Meg too. The Megening.
JVL00:07:35Uh, don't, don't call it the Meg versus Megan. Could you, could you do that? The doll?
Sonny00:07:43Is that the doll? Yeah. Oh, I will watch that.
JVL00:07:46Meg versus Megan.
Sonny00:07:48What if they retrofit Megan to swim under the water? Fight the Meg, like as like a suicide bomber doll. But then she realized she turns against Prince Namor, the Submariner. She turns, she turns against her human programmers cause she doesn't want to blow herself up and teams up with the Meg to wreak havoc. See now you're Jason Statham. That's a movie underwater base.
JVL00:08:08That's a movie that gets made in the late 1990s.
Sonny00:08:11That's a movie. That's a movie that gets made by the sci-fi network, uh, in the, in the late 1990s, Meg versus Megan.
Mike00:08:21Yeah. Before or after the Dune mini series. Well, okay. Let's not go down there. Right. Um, so, uh, okay.
Sonny00:08:27Well then anything else, Sonny, uh, no, I just thinking about our people out in California.
Mike00:08:32Very sad. Yes, absolutely. Um, I was devastated. I saw, uh, Billy Crystal lost his home and it was like, it was like the saddest, I mean, they're all sad. They're all very sad, but you know, it was like, he, you know, he's like he and his wife like have lived there since 1979. He's like, we raised our children, our grandchildren, all the memories.
JVL00:08:51Like, um, or to be clear, I am entirely sad as well. And I take back the, the, the terrible bad person thought I had about it being a role
Mike00:09:01in that. Oh, you know, somebody who, a producer who lives there, whose house is burned down has already thought about this.
Sonny00:09:07Yeah. I mean, it really is. It really is though. Uh, a like real life disaster movie. I mean, this is like, this is like the earthquake ride brought to life or, you know, the backdraft ride brought to life. I mean, it is, it's a, it is. It's a, it looks like it looks like somebody dropped a fucking nuke on the city. I mean, it like entire city blocks just wiped out. It's it's awful.
Mike00:09:32God. Um, all right.
Sonny00:09:34Well, anyway, downer, downer. Sorry guys. I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to send us into a downer. What are your quotidian problems, Mike?
Mike00:09:41Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, again, it all comes back to, to snow and, uh, the griping I have about our school system being closed. Now for four and probably five days in a row. Um, it has not snowed since, uh, since Monday evening at 11:00 PM Monday night, almost midnight. And, uh, it has not snowed since then, but the temperature is also not risen. And so, I mean, our street, which is not a special street, it is not a remarkable street. There are no, you know, important people who live on our street has been plowed, uh, and is, is clear. I can, I, I drove to the office yesterday, um, but, uh, apparently there are plenty of streets in the county that have not been. And so
JVL00:10:32The, the problem with Virginia is twofold. The first part is just the generic. They don't, they don't get enough snow to properly equip themselves to handle snow. And that's just a, a financial problem. But the second problem is that the state of Virginia is organized that all these decisions are made at the county level. And so school systems are, they get their snow day decisions made by the worst street in the county. Yeah. And so everybody is hostage to whatever, you know, and it's not done at the level of town because they're, you know, within your county or the county I used to live in Prince William, there'd be tons and tons of towns where everything was fine. But if there is a town like way west in the county where like things are terrible and impassable, yeah, that the county is, is bound to make their decisions countywide. So this is a, just an organizational problem for living in the south.
Mike00:11:31I would just, I would just like it if the superintendent of the school system pretended to be doing something about it. Like that, that's the thing that is opaque to me is like, like we got an email to let us know about the fourth day of a, of a snow day. And with like, kind of like a, a cheery, uh, tone, like, you know, we've got 45,000, uh, bus stops in our county and, um, you know, nothing, nothing is worse than that.
Sonny00:12:06Oh yeah.
JVL00:12:07That is like, I mean, a wildfire destroying a major city is worse than that.
Sonny00:12:13Well, I mean, I don't know. You give me the, just to bring us back, give me the option between that email and the,
JVL00:12:20isn't it a little, again, disaster movie trope, a little weird that in this country we have one region where everything is shut down because of like crazy snow and another region where you have major apocalypse by fire. It feels like, uh, like something from the day after tomorrow, like, you know, crazy way. It's, it's all, it all fits together.
Sonny00:12:45It's a big country.
JVL00:12:46I'm not, I'm not making any conspiracies. I'm just saying that it fits the plot. It fits the plot of the movie. It absolutely does. Yes.
Mike00:12:55Yeah. There were floods happening in Florida, you know, that would sort of, uh, be the cherry on top. Uh, not that I want there to be floods in Florida anyway. So bottom line is, uh, my kids are home once again. Um, my wife had the brilliant idea of asking, um, some of my kid's friends over. So they're now about 20 feet in, in that direction, um, doing a star Wars movie marathon because like they're done, like they needed to do something different than. Like go on the, on the hill and sled on the hill for like the fourth day in a row, which is like now getting iced over and like, not, not fun anymore. Um, so, so that's what we're doing. So if there are any loud noises as we record this podcast, that is what is going. Um, all right, well let's, let's move on and, uh, I guess we should do a little box office
Sonny00:13:42actually. No, I want, I want to go back to that email real quick because there, uh, because I, I have it. So my, my, uh, During the pandemic, my kids went to, I went to like a daycare slash private school and they're very insistent. Oh, it's schooled. Not day, whatever. It was daycare. Um, for, for, for the most part. But like, uh, during, during the pandemic in, you know, like things are shut down, kids are at home there. They're trying to get the, they're trying to do the, um, they're trying to figure out what they're going to do with, you know, virtual blah, blah, blah. Um, but also we're being charged this whole time. The charges have not stopped. Right. And so like eventually after, after a couple of weeks of this, somebody was like, Hey, what's the deal? What's, what's going on? You know, we're, we're paying for a service. We're not getting the service. It's not cheap. We're not, it's not a small amount of money that we're paying. And the, the head of the school sent out this email that was like, first off, I want to thank, I want to thank all of the parents who have reached out and asked us about our teachers and how they're doing in this hard time. Of the pandemic, you know, it's where, where we want to make sure everybody stays safe and you know, and, and there are a lot of very thoughtful parents who are concerned about our, our health and our, and our safety and the, the, you know, the people who work at our school, some of you have asked when school's going to start again. And I like, and I was like at this, before this, before this, I had been very much like, this is a hard, unprecedented situation. I would rather not be paying this also though. I like get it. We, nobody knows what to do. I was like, I was like, whatever, this is, this is not ideal, but it's not ideal for anyone. Nobody likes what's happening now. I I'm just going to suck it up and live my life. Cause that's what I do. That's how I, that's how I exist, right? After that email, I was like, I want all my fucking money right now. You, you open the school or you give me my money. Cause I am, I am infuriated by this email. I was so mad and it's that cheer. It's that like faux cheery tone. Like, you know, it's not our fault. I know it's not your fault. Just, just say, you're sorry. And we'll move on. Like I, oh, somebody really, there needs to be like a, some, like a professional who goes from school district to school district school to school. And it's just like, here's how you talk to people over email because so many schools cannot do it.
Mike00:16:12Right. Here's the problem though, with that, which is that there is a contingent and it's not a big contingent, but it is a vocal contingent. Who, who like here, that see those and go Bravo. That's you know, who, who, who are the parents who are like, go the other direction.
JVL00:16:32This is Sonny. I'm sorry, but you are speaking as a person whose professional life does not involve mandatory contact with insane people on a regular basis. And that's, I mean, there is a small, but vocal contingent of people. We're just fucking nuts. And we have built our lives to insulate ourselves from contact with those people. And we are lucky to be able to do that. Um, people who run like, you know, where they're with the general public all the time, they are constantly managing down to manage the most insane members of the, the people they have to serve.
Mike00:17:17And what that does is it annoys people like us because we're like.
JVL00:17:20Like just talk to me like a fucking adult, but it's not about us, but it's about the, these people have to deal with the worst people in the world who you and I would go insane if we had to spend an hour on the phone with them.
Sonny00:17:32I appreciate that. I appreciate that to a certain extent, but I can't imagine that that email is the way to deal with those people either. The, the, the way to deal with those people is not to say, Hey, uh, some of you are good people. The rest of you are, you know, are real assholes. Like I, like, uh, I, I, I, I simply, there simply has to have been a better solution than that. And they immediate, they like almost immediately received enough pushback that another email went out like the next day that was like, look, if you, if you, if you don't want to pay for the fines, we'll figure something out.
Mike00:18:09Like there were, uh, yeah, people, people have a limit to what, like, I, I get what you're saying JVL, but I think there's like, there's a, there's a limit to which you're like, wait a second. I'm the one following the rules. I'm the one being responsible. I'm the one even holding my fire a little bit. And then I get, I get talked to this way. Yeah. Anyway.
JVL00:18:30No, I get it. Believe me.
Mike00:18:32I understand.
JVL00:18:33I know you do, but it's, it's, we have, we have all worked the three of us very hard to not have to deal with those types of people who that email is intended to deal with.
Guest00:18:41Hmm.
Mike00:18:42Uh, all right, well let's, uh, uh, yeah, no, let's, we should move on. Uh, let's move on quickly to the box office. Yeah. So that we can get to yacht rock. Um, so, uh, number one of the box office, Mufasa, the lion King, number two, Sonic, the hedgehog three, number three, Nosferatu Moana two and wicked coming in at four and
Sonny00:19:02five, um, uh, Mufasa, the lion King, like who it's, it's the lion King and Sonic three are both, um, at the top and making roughly the same amount of money for the reason that, you know, kids are home from school. There's not a whole lot to do. You know, like what else, uh, what else are you going to do? But take your kids to see either Mufasa or the lion King. You see one and then you go see the other one. I mean, I, I bet the number of people who have seen both of those movies. Now I bet the overlap of like, if you did a Venn diagram with people who have seen one, the other or both, there'd be a lot of overlap in that.
JVL00:19:39So I hate the lion King and all of its forms, but I cannot imagine that it's worse than Sonic three.
Sonny00:19:46Did you see Sonic three? Did you go see Sonic three?
JVL00:19:48Did I go to? The special fan appreciation preview screening, which you had to buy for a month before and where they gave out, uh, Sonic movie posters and Sonic key chains. And then we bought the commemorative Sonic popcorn tin along with a Sonic t-shirt because these are things AMC now sells. AMC is like a toy store now. Uh, yeah, yeah, I saw it.
Sonny00:20:16And, uh, did your kids love it?
JVL00:20:18Yeah. Money loved it. He's since gone back to see it again with his friends. I have a soft spot for the first Sonic movie, which I think, again, it's not a good movie. Please. I'm not saying the first Sonic movie is good, but it's a fish out of water story where, you know, like the fish out of water has these human kind of parents and they're all getting in. There's a little odd couple-ness to it. Right. And, and then it's the odd. Odd couple and underneath the hood, it's just like a kid's action movie. Right. With existing IP. Since then, it has devolved into essentially, it's just like a cartoon. The human characters barely exist. And all we do is spend time with these animated creatures that interact with each other and fight or run around or maybe it's, oh my God.
Sonny00:21:12You also don't like Jim Carrey, right?
JVL00:21:15I don't like Jim Carrey, but I like, I understand what Jim Carrey. He's doing in these movies and like, I understand that what he's doing. No, but like what he's doing, like just plays for like the six to 10 year old set. Right, right. There's a band of kids for whom the rubber, you know, rubber faced Jim Carrey doing all the faces and the like that works for them. And I get it. So the Jim Carrey thing here isn't the problem. The problem is that they.
?00:21:49Oh, my God.
JVL00:21:50It is not good. It is not a good movie.
Sonny00:21:54I saw it. I'll say I actually have not seen the first or second one of these. I never I never actually saw them. My kids, for some reason, have never watched them, but I took them to see this. I thought it was fine. And I do think I like the reason it works for me is because of Jim Carrey. He's doing like he's doing, frankly, very bizarre things in this film in the first two. Is he like often? Like kind of winking at the fourth wall?
JVL00:22:21Yes.
Sonny00:22:22OK, is that so? That's like a thing that continues from from those from those two movies. Yes, I like I find I find it amusing. I mean, wow, it wasn't not great, not great or anything.
JVL00:22:37But the other thing is the Sonic series is kiddie fast and furious because the formula is you introduce two new characters. Per movie and the both characters are introduced as antagonists. But then by the end, one of those two characters joins the team. Well, yeah, it's like movie one of the antagonists from the last movie is part of the team. And and really like with the fast and furious Sonic, all about family.
Sonny00:23:10Sonic, all about family. No, that's this is like this is like classic anime storytelling is what it is. I mean, this is like every season. This is every season of Dragon Ball Z. Every season of Dragon Ball Z. You have like bad guys show up. Goku, Goku like kills one or two of them. And then one of them joins the team. Vegeta joins the team or, you know, Piccolo joins the team. And then the next season. It's like that.
JVL00:23:33Did your kid love it?
Sonny00:23:35The android joins it. What's that?
JVL00:23:37Did your kid love Sonic 3?
Sonny00:23:38My son loved it. My daughter was bored. She she really wanted to go see Wicked. I took her to go see Wicked. And what some are describing as the greatest act of parental love of all time. I went to.
JVL00:23:49I went to Wicked.
Sonny00:23:51No, I went to Wicked a second time. Well, she doesn't know the song. So like it wouldn't it wouldn't be any. So I took I took my daughter who had not seen Wicked and really wanted to see Wicked to go see Wicked. It's the second time for me. I went to the draft house. I had two beers. I was. That's a two beer movie. But it's also two hours and 40 minutes. It's like a million hours long. I had two beers. That wasn't nearly enough. I needed like six beers.
JVL00:24:19Why are we taking an Uber to the theater? You'll understand when you're older, kid.
Sonny00:24:23Daddy, my feet don't reach the pedals. I can't drive. Box office talk. Box office. My one my one box office thought is that Nosferatu at sixty nine million dollars as of last weekend. I think it's at seventy two or seventy three now with the week's gross in between is that movie has now grossed more domestically than every other Robert Eggers movie combined.
Guest00:24:48Best picture, right?
Sonny00:24:50No, no, no. I would I would actually be surprised if it even got nominated. We're going to it's either going to be wicked or a complete unknown.
JVL00:24:58Those are the two or not dark. I mean, the praise for Nosferatu.
Sonny00:25:04Nosferatu is God is getting some praise, but it's not getting a time. I mean, it's like seventy eight, 80 percent fresh on Rotten Tomatoes or something.
JVL00:25:11It's like you critical elite. Love it.
Sonny00:25:15Well, the smart critics out there like myself. Yes, but it's getting it's getting some pushback. It's getting some pushback. I know I like that. I like it a lot, though. It's very good. It's very it's very interesting looking. I forget. Did we do the Northman, JBL? Do we do?
JVL00:25:31I mean, who can tell? We've done so many Anya Taylor Joy movies.
Sonny00:25:35The Alexander Skarsgård. They all run together as a well. She's Northman. Super Mario. She should have been in this. I don't know. Lily Rose Depp, though. I got it. I got a thing for Lily Rose Depp. She's she's very as an actress. She's very she's very strong. She's very strong. Sure. She does. She does a thing. She does this thing with her face. It's very interesting.
JVL00:25:55I don't think she's able to move her face at all because she's from this class of of what are the Xennials? Is she a Xennial who are like, no, she's a plastic surgery and no, no, no, no, no, no,
Sonny00:26:09Well, I mean, maybe she's gotten fillers or something, but the but she she has Instagram
JVL00:26:14face. Isn't that what I think? It's literally. She definitely has Instagram.
Sonny00:26:17She definitely has Instagram face. Oh, but she's she's she's like twenty three or twenty four. She's not she's not old. Right. That's what I'm saying.
JVL00:26:24She's this class of of young Xennials influencer types. I don't know what generation they are, but they all all the girls start doing fillers and Botox and stuff crazy young and their faces converge. They all look the same.
Mike00:26:39I just I just Google search this Instagram face. It's it's it is disturbing. Yeah, it's very weird. It's very weird.
Sonny00:26:47Don't care for it. Don't care. But the no Xennials are the the Oregon Trail generation. That's like the older the older millennials. That's the X-E-N-N-I-N-I-L.
JVL00:26:57It's X-E-N-N-I-N-I-L. Oh.
Sonny00:26:59Z-Z. Maybe maybe they're maybe the younger generation, like the Gen Z to millennial bit is Xennials.
Mike00:27:07Maybe we should pronounce X-E-N-N-I-L as Xennials or something.
Sonny00:27:10Xennials? Xennials. Yeah, like it's like it's like it's like it's a Barcelona. Yeah.
Mike00:27:18Yeah, exactly.
Sonny00:27:19All right.
Mike00:27:19Let's let's move on because because like this is all, you know, this is all just gearing up for for really the main event, which is Yacht Rock, which I know JVL, you're very excited to discuss. Sonny, do you want to give us a review of Yacht Rock, a documentary?
Sonny00:27:36A doc doc spelled D-O-C-K. D-O-C-K. Documentary. Get it? Because yachts go into a dock. Yacht Rock, a documentary, the new documentary on HBO. Slash Max Max that is about the burgeoning soft pop rock movement from the from the I guess what late 70s, early 80s. I like JVL. I'm going to I'm going to throw most of this to JVL. I just want to say from a from a documentary structure point of view, I thought this was an exceptionally well done piece of. Filmmaking, because first off, like ninety six minutes. Too many things these days are like five hours, ninety six minutes, perfect amount of time. Number two, it doesn't do the kind of standard talking head documentary thing where you call in some professor from like UC Irvine who's like soft rock represents the morning in America of Ronald Reagan, the desire to get back to, you know, blah, blah. Yeah, there's none of that. There's none of that. It's like it's like they actually talk about the rock theory of it. Like they talk about the musical theory of how you get from point A to point B. There's this there's this really interesting kind of visual chart in the early going of the film that has Steely Dan in the middle and then lines kind of like radiating out from that, from all the the studio musicians and other folks who played with Steely Dan and then went into bands like Toto. You know, singers like Michael McDonald or Christopher Cross, et cetera, et cetera. So I like I actually learned a ton about the music of these of these guys and how it all worked. And one of the things I really appreciated about it was the the the way it treats studio musicians as like real professional music. Like there's there's I feel like there's a sense of studio music. Musicians as hacks like they're like the idea of something being overproduced is a big idea in the world of music. Right. You have this whole kind of like punk backlash to to this sort of stuff that's like, we don't need a studio and studios, just three of us and we can barely play instruments and and like, all right, like that sucks. That's not that's not ideal. You should have people who can play musicians and you should arrange the music well and you should make it sound interesting. So I like I just from. From a from a from a storytelling point of view, I thought it was really well done. It also helps that everybody who is interviewed like is very excited to be there. It seems like like even though there's this kind of there's this there's this kind of sense of antipathy about the term Yacht Rock itself, which like is is that it's, you know, depending on how we want to describe what a genre is just in general. Right. The guys who made this music are like, well, we don't have yachts. We don't we're not we're not, you know, that was a great line.
JVL00:30:56It is an artificial construct created in the early 2000s. So 20 years after this genre, a bunch of people my age who are comedians decided to do some YouTube shorts, basically. Right. And they're the ones who came up with the idea of it being called Yacht Rock.
Sonny00:31:13And like, again, the there's this tension here where the guys like think that I think for a long time they thought they were being made fun of as opposed to being appreciated. And so there's still some like vague resentment, like to the extent that Steely Dan, the only appearance by Steely Dan in the documentary is a guy at the end. I think it was Dan. Is it Dan Fogarty? Is that who it is? Yeah. Tells it tells him to fuck off when when he calls for to see if he wants, which was which
Mike00:31:44was laugh out loud.
Sonny00:31:44Funny, but it was very funny. It's very funny. But by the way.
Mike00:31:47By the way, who did you say? Did you say? No, Dan Fogarty. I can't remember. Don Fagan. Donald Fagan.
Sonny00:31:52Fagan. Thank you. Thank you. Don Fagan. Sorry, I'm not. I'm not Steely Dan guy, obviously. And to the extent that I actually thought Steely Dan was more like in the prog rock vein, like I didn't even realize that all these guys kind of like, oh, we can talk about
Mike00:32:06that.
Sonny00:32:06But yeah, I didn't I didn't realize that all these guys kind of owe their, you know, the the the existence of this kind of micro genre to Steely Dan. Anyway, I thought it was interesting. I thought it was great. Loved it. It was a lot of fun. I like the music. I like the people. I like how it was put together again. Ninety six minutes. Even if you don't enjoy the music, it's it's not it doesn't it doesn't drag. You're not stuck there forever. So a big, big thumbs up for me on Yacht Rock, a documentary.
JVL00:32:38So, Mike, I I went into I'm sorry, because I really want to hear your thoughts on this, Mike. So I just want to. Yeah, just sort of set you up here a little bit. I went into this with my ex. Expectations in the basement, and I could not understand why you guys had wanted to watch this. I had never heard it before, and I loved it so fucking hard that I can't wait to watch it again. And I am 100 percent going to rewatch it. And I think I am not. So this is the soundtrack of my childhood, and I hated it. Somebody says at one point, oh, these are the songs I always heard when I was in the dentist's office as a kid. And that's what it was. For me, you're at the dentist's office and they've got the music everywhere. And so you're getting a steady diet of of Christopher Cross and Michael McDonald and
Mike00:33:26Toto.
JVL00:33:28And I hated it. I resented it. I was very into music shortly after this period. So I started getting into music around like age 12, and I went totally the opposite direction. I was like British synth pop. I want to hear The Cure and Duran Duran and New Order. Yeah, the Sugar Cubes, who later became Bjork, which isn't it's Icelandic. Now, anyway, and eventually.
Mike00:33:53Orchestral Maneuvers in the Dark. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit of OMD. Go ahead.
JVL00:33:58And then once I got like three years beyond that, I went hard into like alternative stuff, like violent themes, like indie rock. So this is this is the best way I can explain this is. This is a documentary about the bands that were always in the bargain bin when I was playing tapes and CDs. And so you would see Steely Dan and Toto and Michael McDonald and and these are bands that
Sonny00:34:27I do be brothers.
JVL00:34:30Yeah, I you could not have if you had gone to my 12 year old self and said, I'll give you $20 to take this home and listen to it. I would have spit on you. Like absolutely no. And and I fucking love this documentary. And as you know. As you said, Sonny, like as a piece of documentary filmmaking, it is immaculate. Like it just it moves from place to place. You always understand what's going on. You always know who's there. Everybody who's there is contributing something interesting. And the these these artists themselves turn out to be just great. They're they're a great hang. I don't know how to say it, except that they are Michael McDonald. And Christopher Ross, Christopher Cross and Kenny Loggins and the Toto guys. They're just a great hang. And you are happy to be with them and to listen to them and listen to them talk. Christopher Cross talking about how, you know, he had a really good weed business. He was a he was a weed dealer before he became a professional musician. And they're all they're all serious musicians. I mean, these are the kids who in middle school and high school were in their garage doing, you know, band. And all that stuff and just got super into it. And a lot of them, I'm sure, were self-taught. And they're very, very heavy music nerds. They're all omnivores. They're all musical omnivores. They're listening to R&B. They're listening to folk. They're, you know, they're taking in country. They're taking in rock. The whole the whole nine. And I'm so glad you said that about session musicians, because I think what what normal people don't understand is that the the apex predator musicians in the music. Industry are the session guys. Right. It is it is very, very rare that somebody in a band on the regular is an absolute A plus plus level instrumentalist on what they do. They're there for other reasons, maybe for songwriting or because their look is good or because they were childhood friends with the front man or something like that. The session guys are the ones who just like walk in and do anything. And most of these guys. Our session guys at heart, Michael McDonald, Toto, which I never knew I thought Toto was a joke. Yeah, it's a band of session musicians who, when they weren't touring, were all off doing session work because that's what they just love to do. One of them was like, yeah, somebody's got like somebody in the band. I think they said, you know, I have 2000 credited tracks, but that and like the interview is like, what? And he's like, no, no. Well, these other two and one of them has 3000 one has 4000 credited tracks. I think we counted that up one time. I just. This is a love letter that I never knew I needed to read. And I, Michael, this is all before you, but you're a big music history guy. And so was this just like into your veins? Please tell me you love it. If you're going to laugh at me now after I've been vulnerable, I'm going to be really. No, no, no.
Mike00:37:35I can't tell you how happy it makes me to hear you say those words, JVL, that you appreciated this. Because before we had, before we watched this movie and you had, if you had said like, make the case for Toto, like I would have basically told you what, what this movie told you about, about Toto. And so it warms my heart that this movie exists because it's like, it, it, it says all the things that need to be said about this type of music, about the musicians themselves, the studio music. I mean, I agree. Like, you know, I went to college in Nashville and there's a, there's obviously a big recording industry there. And, you know, the, one of the great, one of the great things about going to school in Nashville is you go to a bar downtown or on the various areas. And like the live music is going to be played by somebody who does this as a, as a, as a job, as a work a day, very high to earn some tips. And they're playing at a high level and you're going to hear a great music. While you're like, you know, five or six beers in, you won't appreciate it because you're a stupid college kid, but it's, it's, it's amazing to look back at some of those moments. The, the, the particulars, it's like hard to explain everything that I loved about this movie without just going through the entire film. But I loved the, yes, the appreciation of session musicians and the appreciation of where this particular group fit into the music history, right? There's a, there's a. A reference to the wrecking crew, which is the mid, uh, early to late sixties, uh, community of, uh, session musicians in Los Angeles. And, um, these are sort of the next generation, uh, the ones who, who, who again, make up Toto, um, uh, you know, Steve LeCather and, uh, the Picara brothers and, uh, and, uh, patient, um, that just whole band really. But, but even, you know, and then Michael McDonald, um, uh.
JVL00:39:46Uh, does he seem like the nicest guy in the history of the industry?
Mike00:39:49Oh yeah. And, and I think he seems like that because he can, I think the movie gets into this, right? Like he can't believe that people still like his music, which is insane because he has one of the greatest voices in recorded music history. Like his voice is, uh, it, I mean, if you, there's a, there's a mini, I don't remember where it comes from, but there is a, you can watch it on YouTube. I watched it last night. Um, like a seven or. Eight minute kind of documentary, uh, segment of the creation of peg, uh, one of the hits from, from Asia, the, the Steely Dan album that they talk about a lot in this document in this documentary, um, where, uh, Walter Becker and Don Fagan explain how they recorded it and they break it down into the different tracks. And so they talk about, as they talk about in this documentary, they talk to the guitarist who actually does the solo, but that they had auditioned like seven or eight other guitarists for it. And they play, they even played some of the other solo. To demonstrate why they sucked and why this particular one, like got what they wanted. Um, uh, and then, but then they, they do the isolated vocals for Michael McDonald, which like, if you listen to peg, like Michael McDonald is clearly there, but you're, it's, you're like, I can't believe that's all the Michael McDonald there is like, it's just background vocals. And you're kind of like amazed that in 1977, you know, Michael McDonald sort of at the height of his powers is just doing background vocals. And then you realize that, well, what he actually did was he like, he like did all of the, his own harmonies and they like isolate those and they demonstrate like how he was layering. I mean, and this, of course they directed him to do this, but it's, it's his voice and it's just in, it's incredible, incredible studio work and incredible session work.
JVL00:41:42Like it's hard to overstate. These guys are all like performers and recording artists and producers, right?
Mike00:41:52Which is again, it's own, it's own art. Yes, they are, they are craftsmen and they're at the sort of the height that at the pinnacle of the, of their industry. I mean, Los Angeles, like it is, it is like underappreciated how much, how, how, how much of a music town Los Angeles is. Um, I mean, they talk about like Motown moving to Los Angeles. Um, which, which sort of, but the, also the community aspect of the session musician world in LA, like they were all playing, you know, with each other on different tracks. And that is something that this movie captures very well. Um, the, my favorite interview, um, interviewee in this, uh, in this documentary is Thundercat, um, who is always great, relatively young. I mean, he's like, he's like my age or Sonny's age. Um, but he's, he's young to all. These guys, I don't, I have no idea who he is. He's a musician. He's a contemporary musician. Yeah. And he does kind of, you would definitely call what he does like a 2020s version of, of yacht rock. It's, it's, it's, um, it's more R and B. Um, but his appreciation, his, his, like, you can tell, and Questlove has some of this too, but like, it's like Questlove, like appreciates it. Maybe, uh, from a bit of a distance, uh, who's also interviewed in this, uh, but, but Thundercat appreciates it and what these musicians were doing and the music they were making at a, at a, at a skeletal level.
JVL00:43:29Like it's spiritual, like it's part of, yes, part of him.
Mike00:43:33He, he, it's part of him and he, and he loves it deeply. And I just, I thought he had the best, um, insight, the worst, the worst insight were, uh, and some of them, this wasn't their fault, but like the journalists were like, the least interesting of the, of the interview or ease, uh, they just have the least to say, uh, that was, uh, uh, you know, novel or interesting. Um, I don't know. I don't know.
Sonny00:43:56A lot of those guys are clearly called in to like, give them like to serve essentially as transition narrators. Yeah, totally. We got to get to the next part of the story. So then, you know,
Mike00:44:07No, I think that's right. Um, yeah, look, I, I, I've been, uh, I love this music. I love yacht rock and I understand why they, they blanch at the term because it does feel like it's making fun a bit, even though it's appreciation. It's also, it's funny. The, the one thing that I didn't like about this was the, the, the little bit of obsessing over what is and what isn't yacht rock. Um, I mean, it's like fun to do and like a conversation, but Fleetwood Mac, not yacht rock. Right. But we're just like, well, I don't know. Like some of their stuff is yacht rock, but also like, what is it? What does it mean? It's like just all of that. Kind of. Kind of soft rock from the late seventies to the early eighties. Like it's all good. And just because it didn't come from Southern California doesn't mean, and, and from this core musicians, I understand why the documentary couldn't do that. But like, if for instance, they, they mentioned the Hall and Oates, um, oh, but they're from Philadelphia, they're from the Philadelphia, so that's different. It can't work, but like it does. And like, you know, um, if, you know, Atlanta rhythm section is another one. That's like, it's fantastic music, yacht rock, like to. It's core, but you know, it's, it's from a different musical, um, uh, locus, uh, and so it doesn't count, but it's like, it's all, it's all good. And, and I think that what the through line in at all is it is high level musicianship. And, um, as you said, JVL omnivorous, uh, musical tastes, um, all mixing into one. Um, it is bizarre that Kenny Loggins and Steely Dan are like in this mentioned in the same breath, like it seems weird and then it's like, but wait a minute, danger zone guy from top gun or, or Danny song from his previous like singer songwriter, you know, uh, uh, but like it, it all works. And, you know, it just, I'm so glad that people are appreciating this music for the high quality, uh, music that it is. And, um, I don't think I can appreciate what it was like. I, I cannot appreciate what it was like to grow up around it. Or to be around when it was coming out. Um, but as a music fan, I just, uh, I love it. I love this document.
JVL00:46:22And here's the thing. I don't actually, I still don't like it. Like I would not choose to listen to hardly any of this stuff, but I feel like now I can appreciate it. Does that make sense? Yes. Sonny, the moment this, this, this thing won me over, it's like we're, we're two minutes in and somebody, I think it's one of the guys from the ringer is, this is another bill Simmons production. Uh, says, I'm not saying that yacht rock doesn't rock. It rocks. It just doesn't rock too hard. And he's saying this totally unironically. Yeah. And I was just like, fuck, I am in, I am in somebody means that somebody has thought about this a lot. Yeah.
Sonny00:47:08No, I mean, it's, uh, I, I think everybody, it's interesting that, uh, you say everybody, uh, Michael McDonald, the, the, the, the, um, the whole reason that thing came together is because Michael McDonald called all those guys and was like, you got to come do this documentary with me and we're going to, we're going to tape it all. Um, I, I talked to Stephen Hyden on Bulwark goes to Hollywood a couple of weeks back, um, about this, uh, about this, this, this movie. And he was like, yeah, we, uh, what's in, he's in the documentary, right? He was the story. He's the story, uh, producer, which is basically like the writer of the documentary. Um, but the, uh, but he was like, yeah, you know, Christopher cross, his daughter called me up and was like, Hey, we want to do a documentary about, um, or called up the director of the movie called, uh, called us up and was like, Hey, we want to do a documentary about, you know, this whole yacht rock thing, you know, the serious XM channel and blah, blah. Um, and he was like, okay. And, and she was like, yeah, we, you know, obviously, uh, my dad will do it, but also like Michael McDonald will do it. And they got Michael McDonald on the phone and then he just started like calling or giving them, I think, you know, names and numbers was like, Hey, Michael McDonald said that you would do this interview with us. And everyone was like, okay.
Mike00:48:23Yeah. Get all those guys.
Sonny00:48:24I mean, and like Kenny Loggins is still busy. He's still like touring and you know, it's not like, um, no, the funniest, the funniest though was the, uh, the guy from Toto, the guy from Toto who was wearing like what looked like a fairly expensive sport coat and like a black turtleneck black, like mock turtleneck, you know? My, my, my wife's like, God, he still looks really good. He's still really put together. It turns out he has a songwriting credit on thriller.
Guest00:48:51Yeah.
Sonny00:48:53God only knows how much, uh, in royalties that has earned him over the years. I don't know how royalties work exactly. Like, I don't know if you, if you have a songwriting credit on an album, do you get like, I don't know, like 5 cents per album sold?
Mike00:49:09Like what's the, I don't know what the, what the deals are, but it's very good. It's very good. To get a songwriting credit like that is because that's what, that's what you, that's what you always money in the songwriting.
Sonny00:49:20Well, that's, and that's what, um, so when the, uh, what was the Tracy Chapman song? Uh, fast car, right? There was like a, there was like a country version of fast car that was a huge hit, uh, last year or four, but she's the one who got all the money from like all the, from all the plays on radio because it was, cause it's her songwriting, uh, credit. Like she, she, she got like some seven figure royalty check or something from, from the, all the spins that song got.
Mike00:49:51So, um, the, the only other comments, um, I want to have on this is that, um, perhaps it's the sign of a good documentary, but when it was over, I, my first thoughts were they should do an entire documentary on Steely Dan and an entire documentary on Toto, like separate, like those two bands alone. Could sustain. And so like, you know, leave you wanting more, maybe like that's what, that's what they done. But like, I would say particularly Steely Dan, like there is so much, there's so much there. And those two guys are so, um, deeply fascinating in the way that they, I think they are in many ways, a continuation of, um, of the Lennon McCartney approach to songwriting and studio work. Um, and I, so in college I took a, you're going to laugh. I took a history of rock class that was actually, uh, it was actually pretty great. Um, and, uh, and one of the sort of theories that our professor had was to like, there are basically two types of rock bands. Um, one is follows the Beatles, uh, approach and one follows the Rolling Stones approach and the Beatles are the studio. Uh, it's, you know, everything is perfect. Uh, and, uh, and, and, and. Um, precise and the Rolling Stones is like, you know, let it loose. It's, it's like where it's like where the jam band and the Allman brother, like all of that stuff goes from, from that, from the Rolling Stones branch. And, you know, from the Beatles branch, it's like everything from electric light orchestra to, um, Lynyrd Skynyrd, who actually, if you like go to a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert, it's like, it's played exactly as it is on the record. Cause it's all about precision. Um, and Steely Dan is like, you could like slot them in as like the replacement for the Beatles. Anyway, I just think it would be a great, uh, great for a documentary. And the last thing I'll say about it is we crap a lot on the boomers here and with, for good reason, but like, this is, this is the good side of the boomers. Like the, the, this is, this is, this is the boomers at their best is the, is the LA studio musicians. All right, I'm out.
JVL00:52:03I think so. You know, I'll say like with Dylan Steely Dan is something for me that I have never consciously put on a Steely Dan song. I've never listened to a Steely Dan album. I am sure that there are like 15 songs that I know and have heard and I'm deeply familiar with, which are Steely Dan, but I couldn't tell you any of them. And if you played it for me and said, is this Steely Dan? I would say, I don't know what the fuck does Steely Dan sound like? Because that's the level of disgust with which I held this entire genre as like a 12 to 15
Mike00:52:34year old. Yeah.
JVL00:52:35And now I appreciate it. And I love them all. Not enough to listen to it.
Mike00:52:40There's a great story about the 2001 Grammys. Um, when Steely Dan had released their like first album in like 20 years or something, uh, and they were up for album of the year, but like everyone thought it was going to be Radiohead's Kid A was going to win. Um, or the other album up there, I think was, I think was, uh, the Marshall Mathers LP from him. So it was like very, it was very like those two, maybe Beck had an album in there too. Like those were going to win. And then, and then at the Grammy thing that Steely Dan wins at the Grammy awards. And like, just like the shock of everybody was like, Oh, these two old, old guys, just one. No, Sonny, any, uh, any, any thoughts, uh, parting thoughts on Sonny?
JVL00:53:28Did you love the shot at Barbra Streisand where Christopher Cross talks about with his first album winning, you know, new artist of the year album, the year artist of the year. Yeah. And somebody says to him, he's like with a handler or something, he's like, Oh man, I'd love to meet Barbra Streisand. And I'm like, probably not tonight.
Sonny00:53:47Probably not today. What a hag.
JVL00:53:50What a hag she is that she would not like, you couldn't trust her to be gracious with this like 23 year old artist tracks though.
Sonny00:54:01Sure does. That all sure does. It's probably a whole chapter of it in her 800 page memoir.
Mike00:54:11Uh, just don't, just don't get a shot of her. Uh, if you want to go interview her about, um, uh, everybody should go watch this.
JVL00:54:18It doesn't matter if you like yacht rock or hate yacht rock, or don't even know what it is. I haven't heard it. Like, this is just a joy.
Sonny00:54:25Yeah. It's pretty good. Pretty good. All right. All right.
Mike00:54:28Well, that is all the time we are going to give to this episode. Join us over at sub beacon.com. Leave a comment. Tell us your favorite, uh, yacht rock song. And, uh, we will talk to you next time.
JVL00:54:42I feel like I really heard Sonny backing off of liking it once Michael and I liked it so much.
Sonny00:54:53No, I like it. I like it. I like it a lot. I just don't have, I don't have a ton to add about like music history and stuff. I know I could go on forever.
JVL00:55:02So what did you listen to? Age is 12, 15, 12 to 15. Tell me each of you, what were you listening to? So you were not listening to like pet shop boys the way I was.
Sonny00:55:12Um, what, let's see, what's that? So it's like green day, Pearl jam, uh, like Nirvana, I guess. All right.
JVL00:55:21So that's me in high school then.
Sonny00:55:24Yeah. So that's like, yeah. Senior high school grunge stuff.
JVL00:55:28Yeah. Michael.
Mike00:55:29Um, uh, this is, uh, this is going to be weird because I was listening to both contemporary things, but also like old stuff. So I was getting very into the Beatles at age 12. Um, I was, um, but you know, like the, but I would say the contemporary stuff was like Eminem, um, uh, three doors down, lots of, they will make a documentary in 20 years called butt rock, which is also a, uh, a term that was, uh, for a genre that was named long after it was popular, um, which is like, so butt rock is, it comes from the descendants of
Sonny00:56:07Pearl jam.
Mike00:56:08Yes. So it's like, it's like, it's like mainstream post. Grunge rock, like creed and Nickelback. No, no, no, no, no, not Jim blossoms. That's, that's, that's still in the alternative realm. Uh, we're talking about like basically from like late 1997 to 2003 Lincoln park, uh, that stuff. And, and it's like, and, and the name comes from, it's also kind of a joke, but it comes from the idea of like, um, you would be listening to this radio station playing this music and they would say, you know, 97, five, nothing. Nothing but rock. And that would be the music that you would hear is, is, but so, um, but they will make a documentary about that in 20 years and everybody will talk about how much they love.
Sonny00:56:53Yeah.
Mike00:56:54I mean, creed's having a moment now.
Sonny00:56:56Creed, creed, creed's great. Uh, love creed. Um, uh, nickel Nickelback has always, I thought gotten kind of a bad rap. They became like a poster boy for, you know, Oh, look at this terrible kind of corporate rock, blah, blah. And like, whatever. I, I don't, I don't, I don't love. I don't own a Nickelback album. I've never owned a Nickelback album, but also like, this is how you remind me as a perfectly fine top 10, you know, rock, uh, song photograph, you know, it's, it's fine. Uh, I, it is an interesting kind of micro genre. Cause again, it's like, it's, it's like the, uh, it's, it's like the vocal stylings of Eddie Vedder specifically that, that, uh, you know, people can. They're kind of like, like that sort of thing. Like it's, it's interesting. I don't know.
Mike00:57:48I, uh, none of the, none of the like classic rock, uh, music aspects of Pearl jam that, that are like clearly like infused it's it's there's no like major solos or anything.
Sonny00:57:59It's well, and this is, and this is the problem is that like none of, none of the, none of the actual, um, again, it's very specifically a vocal thing because I don't, I, like you say, I don't think there's any musical similarity between like Uh, between, I don't know, three doors down and like, I don't know, uh, stained, stained or I also Lincoln park, Lincoln park falls into a different category. I think, no, it's, it's still like the rap rock.
Mike00:58:28It's still about rock. It's my friends and I have drunkenly, uh, debated the butt rock. And there's a, there's a trunk of a tree and creed is the trunk and there are many branches and Lincoln park is on one of those bridges. That's all I'll say about that.
JVL00:58:46Would you think that those guys would be as much fun to hang with over the course of a documentary though, as these guys were? No, no. Cause I don't think so. No, I think they seem largely, I mean, contemporary, like, you know, Scott Stapp has always just seemed like a dick, you know, like all of these guys, like the green day guys, like, I don't know.
Mike00:59:08I don't really want to listen to this goes to your point, Jay, this goes to your point about like, those are all guys in bands and they're not like workaday musicians.
JVL00:59:16And I think that is, that's the, that's, I think the, the special sauce here with the, the yacht rock guys.
Sonny00:59:21Yeah, no, I think, no, that that's 100% the difference between like. That because it's a scene, right. It's like an actual scene. It's like a, it's like, I don't know, um, how to put it in. It's like the, it's like, it's like the, uh, world of magazine news writing around like 1996. You know, like it's like this, it's this whole thing where people are hanging out in parties and they're freelancing from magazine to magazine.
Mike00:59:48Can you write a review for me on that? Sure. Yeah. After I finish filing this big feature piece for this other place. Yeah.
Sonny00:59:54Right. I mean, it's like, it's like the whole first 20 minutes of shattered glass, except in, in music form.
Mike01:00:01I'm sure it's fine.
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