#275. 'The Terminator'
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For the 40th anniversary of The Terminator, Sonny calls it "a perfect film" — one that sets out to do a specific thing and does it with total efficiency and no false notes — praising James Cameron's miniature and stop-motion effects work, Arnold Schwarzenegger's surprisingly funny deadpan performance, and the deep bench of future character actors (Rick Rossovich, Bill Paxton, Brian Thompson) padding out the cast; JVL agrees it's a perfect, unexpectedly art-house-feeling movie he first saw on VHS at his friend Jeff Dinsmore's house, and Mike, admitting he actually prefers the original to T2, praises its unusual pulsing score, its escalating "false ending" horror-movie structure, and Michael Biehn's artfully deployed exposition dumps, dinging only Linda Hamilton's cheesy closing line. The three also dig into the franchise's central time-travel paradox — Sonny argues the whole series depends on an unresolved tension between fate and free will, and reveals the existence of a scrapped alternate T2 ending with an old-age-makeup Linda Hamilton as a future world senator. As usual the front third is consumed by tangents: JVL relitigates the Mookie Betts fan-interference call and Austin Capobianco's instantly-memed Yankees-fan meltdown from the just-finished Dodgers-Yankees World Series, plus Gerrit Cole's five-unearned-run meltdown inning; Sonny recounts his son's sixth birthday, a playground head injury requiring two "people staples" that got wildly embellished by classmates, and a horror-movie-villain digression on Terrifier's Art the Clown; and Mike gets ribbed for shoddy home-office WiFi and shares video of his son's best-ever baseball hit, a triple he missed while traveling for work. Box office and the "woke Pope" movie Conclave also get quick treatment before the main event.
From the show notes
Sadly it's not streaming anywhere, so Sonny watched his 20-some-year-old DVD. It looked great! (No, seriously.)
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00Listen and understand that terminator is out there, it can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with, it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop ever until you are dead.
Mike00:00:30Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast, I am your co-host Mike Warren, joining me as always are my two co-hosts who don't feel pity or remorse or fear, Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at Sub-Beacon.com, you can become a patron over there, tell your friends and family, join the conversation, post comments underneath our shows which are released every Friday morning only at Sub. Sub-Beacon.com, we are going to be talking about The Terminator later on in the show, but first, how is everyone doing? JVL, let's start with you, what is going on my man?
JVL00:01:15I need to talk about the World Series, because there were two, the World Series is over, it was won, four games to one last night by the Los Angeles Dodgers, but there were two seminal moments in this series. The first came in game four, when a ball was hit, drifting, out of play, foul on the right hand side of the field, and Mookie Betts, did you guys see this? Oh yeah, I saw this live. Yeah, yeah, goes over and jumps up against the wall and grabs it, and there are two gentlemen, Yankee fans, sitting there. The one... One gentleman grabs Mookie's gloved hand, and leans back to pull him as hard as he can backwards, and starts trying to like, open it and pry it open, and then his buddy next to him, Mookie's like, you know, Mookie's gloved hand reaches up, and his other hand reaches up and like, what the hell's going on? And his other buddy reaches down and grabs Mookie's free hand, and lifts as if he's just going, oh don't worry, I'll get him! And while the first guy then, who's wearing his Yankees... jersey, of course, finally gets it open, and pops the ball out, and sort of lets it dribble back onto the field, as if Mookie didn't actually catch it, and make the out.
Sonny00:02:43It's safe, no out.
JVL00:02:45So, Mookie does a what the fuck, and honestly has the most calm reaction, I would never have reacted that calmly. And an umpire, the umpire on the... The baseline there, sees it, and immediately makes the motion for fan interference and calls him out, at which point, these two gentlemen begin arguing with the ump, as if they were players in the game, coming out to say, what do you mean he was out? Oh, you're no good, Blue, look at that, you need glasses, when they're like, no, no, man, he, his hand was over the line into the stands with us, that makes him fair game, no, no, no, so they are... They are escorted out of the stadium, and ESPN reporters catch up with them, a couple hours later, in a nearby bar, and the name of one of the gentlemen is Austin Capobianco. That's the guy who grabbed the, he's the one who grabbed the glove.
Sonny00:03:49Is this the one who's friends with Gronk?
JVL00:03:52Yes.
Sonny00:03:53It all tracks.
JVL00:03:55He is a season ticket holder, and says that... But, you know, the ESPN reporter is like, so, you know, I mean, heat of the moment, crazy things can happen. And this guy, Mr. Capobianco, says, oh, no, my buddy and I have been talking about this for years. I mean, we're out there to D it up. You know, you got to play defense for your team. That ball comes over there. We got to do whatever we can to help the team. We knew exactly what we were doing. And I just thought, this is peak Yankees fan.
Sonny00:04:26Can I, I want to, I want to interject here, because I saw this happen. Live. And of course, I, the Orioles fan, have flashbacks to Jeffrey Mayer, right?
JVL00:04:34I thought to myself, is that Jeffrey Mayer grown up?
Sonny00:04:37What's that?
JVL00:04:37I did think to myself, is it possible before we knew anything about it? Is it possible that that could be Jeffrey Mayer now at middle age?
Sonny00:04:45No, it was not. No, it was not. But I saw this happen in real life. And my first reaction was those people, those two gentlemen should be arrested and they should be beaten by the police on the way to the jail. That's number. That's my number one thought. The least. My number two thought was like, baseball is not going to have the stones to do what it needs to do with these people, which is to not only revoke their season tickets and ban them from the stadium, but to ban the next seven generations of their family from the stadium. To ban not just them, but their bloodline.
JVL00:05:21No, Capo Bianco, will ever be allowed. Your entire bloodline is banned from Yankee Stadium?
Sonny00:05:26Your entire bloodline shall be forbidden entry into. Any Major League Baseball stadium.
Mike00:05:32No MLB.TV subscriptions.
Sonny00:05:35There has never, there's, the problem, the problem with baseball is that there has never been a commissioner who has the power to do what really needs to be done here. If even, even a Giamatti, even a Giamatti type would not have the power to do what needs to be done here. What you need is a David Stern style figure who would send a team. Of hit men to their house and have them murdered in the, as a, as a lesson to all of the other fans out there.
JVL00:06:05I wouldn't start a war with the Capo Bianco family. This is not how you behave.
Sonny00:06:09This is not how you behave at a, at a baseball game. You respect the game. You respect the field, respect the players.
Mike00:06:17You know what? I, I think, I think all the other sports are laughing at baseball. They're, you know, they're laughing at it. We need strength in our commissioner is what we need. We need somebody who's. An iron fist. Exactly. Exactly. Cause they're all, they're all laughing at us.
Sonny00:06:31Everyone says they don't want a Ron, our test situation, a malice in the palace. And then something like this happens and you realize you need one or two crazy people to really ensure behavior from the fans. If you don't have, if the, if the fans are not cowed into submission, this is what you get. You get the fucking New York.
Mike00:06:52But can I say this would never happen in, uh, you know, at a Milwaukee. Brewers game. This would never happen at a Texas Rangers game.
Sonny00:07:04It would happen at a Red Sox game.
Mike00:07:06A thousand percent. There's, there's something, there's something a little regional here going on.
JVL00:07:15They're like three cities in America where this is, where this could theoretically happen.
Mike00:07:19Yes. And it's, it, they all happen to be on the Acela court. Um, yeah, I, I don't know. It was, it was unreal. And the, the, the, the, the funniest part of this was, was that, which we mentioned already was that the guy is like old friends with, with Rob Gronkowski. And like, it's like this story was so heightened already. And then it just added this level of like, oh, of course, of course he's friends with
JVL00:07:49Gronk. Like the look on this guy's face. Like it is just, you couldn't have cast it better. No, no. And I, I gotta say we. On the one hand, this can become wonderful because they didn't sprain Mookie's thumb. Right. You can see a version of this in which they like tear a ligament in his hand. And this is not like a funny conversation. And, you know, so it's only luck that we don't get, but we do get to have the funny conversation and you could see where this could be just one of like Steve Bartman, like Jeffrey Mayer becomes part of the lore of baseball. And, and we like that. I just wish that the Yankees could have gone. To game seven, because had they, then I guarantee you, as sure as I'm sitting here, there would be a cadre of Yankees fans who said the only reason they turned that series around was because of Austin Capo Bianco.
Mike00:08:43And I think that's, I think that's cosmic justice right there.
JVL00:08:47I went onto threads and I, when he was, uh, when he was revealed for his name and I said, I just tweeted out, of course, his name is Austin Capo Bianco. And the number of replies I got from indignant people say, Oh really? Oh really? What does that mean? What is that supposed to mean? And I was just like, Oh, we're still doing that. We're still, we're still pretending to be outraged on the behalf of our Italian American.
Mike00:09:16It's Italian American discrimination is what, um, that was the first one.
JVL00:09:20But the second one was last night in game, game five. Yeah. When Garrett Cole had the kind of inning, which I believe he got. Six out during the course of this inning and gave up five unearned runs in a single inning, which is very hard to do in the final, final one of these was a soft hit ground ball to first Anthony Rizzo fields it cleanly and is ready to shovel it to first base because the pitcher is supposed to cover first base and Garrett Cole in his defense had run halfway to first base, but then he inexplicably stopped and just stood there and pointed to it. And that's where you go. And so another run scores and I just, I find Garrett Cole to be a tragic comic figure because he is the most talented pitcher of his generation. And he's not a heel exactly, but he does find himself in the middle of situations in which kind of looks like a bad guy. And he is the only baseball player I have ever seen who winds up with Eli Manning loser face when things are going bad. He doesn't get angry. He doesn't trash. And the face he had basically from the moment that, uh, Aaron judge booted the, the line drive catch, which he should have got was just, he just suddenly, he didn't look mad. He didn't even look exasperated. He just looked like he wanted to be anywhere else in the environment. The entire universe, like maybe I, can I go play squash? Do I have to stay out here for this? And they're just, it's hysterical.
Sonny00:11:05There are a lot. There were a lot of like Tim Robinson. I think you should leave moments. I can't remember if we've talked to him Robinson, but like the, uh, but like the, the, the face you described as the, I don't, I don't even want to be here.
JVL00:11:17Right. I mean, it like, it's fascinating, isn't it?
Sonny00:11:20And the guy, the guy, the guy who the co Austin Copo Bianco or whatever his name is, uh, looks like. He looks like Tim Robinson. The face. He's like, I was like, I was like that. Is that Tim Robinson? Did he, is this, is this, which universe have we slipped into? I feel like I, every day something happens where I'm like, we got, we got off track into an alternate timeline and we are like the background of a fucking Robo cop.
Mike00:11:51All started with the cubbies when in the world series eight years ago, it was just, it was
JVL00:11:55wild. And I, I. It was just wild. That's all. That's all I wanted to say. Uh, sonny, what's going on with you, man?
Sonny00:12:03I, uh, I had a fun week, had a fun, exciting week. Uh, so, uh, let's see, when's, uh, no, Tuesday was my son's birthday. Very exciting. You know, he's turned six. We, we had a, we had a, uh, party the weekend before at strong fitness. I don't know if you guys have strong fitness, but it's like a, it's like a kiddie American Ninja gym where like they have like a bunch of like. Obstacles they can do, but they also, they have like curved walls. They have like kid sized curve walls, but also like adult size curve walls and, um, all that, all that sort of stuff. It's, it's, it's a fun spot. They, the kids all had a good time running around. Uh, and we, you know, we're doing basic, we're doing, you know, whatever. He goes to school Monday, he goes to school Tuesday, Tuesday is his birthday. Uh, and on Tuesday at like 2:00 PM. So about an hour before the end of the school day, uh, my, my wife gets a call. We were driving back from, I can't remember where we were. We were driving back from my wife and I were driving back from something and she gets a call on her phone. That's like, uh, now don't worry. And you, you know, that's always, when you hear that, when you hear that, that's always the best. That's always the best thing to hear. Uh, don't worry. This is the nurse from, from the elementary school. Uh, your son has, uh, has he's, he's had a little bit of an injury. He's had a little bit of an injury. He, uh, he was on the playground and he, he bumped his head. And he's bleeding and it's kind of bleeding a lot. And I looked at it, you should probably take him to the urgent care to get some stitches or staples or something. And sure enough, we get him and there's like blood all down the back of his shirt, just like, like all down the back of his, his shirt. Uh, and we, we, uh, my, my wife was like on the phone pulling up the like children's urgent care, you know, uh, sites before we even got to the school to schedule an appointment. So we, we go straight there, we go straight there. Uh, and we take him in and he gets, he gets two staples and it's, you know, there's crying and yelling and whatever. Uh, he's fine now. He's fine now. And, and it's a fun story, but it was, it was the, everything surrounding this is kind of hilarious. Like the, the way the injury happened. So he was on the playground, he's running around and I know exactly what happened because this almost happened at the camp out. We were at the other day, we were at the camp out and there was this, uh, there was this kayak rack. Yeah. Where like the things holding the kayaks and we're just like steel tubes that are probably three inches in diameter, just like cast iron steel tubes. And at one point he was running, you know how kids run and they kind of look to the side while they're running and he was going literally directly into one. And I yelled his name as loud as I could and said, stop. And he pulled back just enough. So when he hit it, it like. Barely hit it. He like he was like going backwards when he hit it and it like surprised him and scared him. He cried a little bit then, but he was fine because it. But I know exactly what he was doing. He was doing that again. He was looking to the side and running. And what happened was he he did this right at the moment as he was going under a sign that ironically is all about playground safety and how to be safe on the playground. And as he's doing this. As he's doing this. So he does the thing where I'm sure again, I don't I don't have video or anything, but I can just see it in my head as he's running and going sideways and trying to duck under the sign. Maybe at the last minute he catches the bolts, the bolts that's under the and it just like boop. Oh, there's a big chunk out of his out of out of his scalp. So we got to get that stapled. But it was also funny, too, because like we start getting text messages from the parents in the class that are like, is Charlie OK? Is he OK? We heard. We heard. You know, we heard he had an injury. One of the.
Mike00:16:00He was decapitated.
Sonny00:16:01Right. One of the kids.
JVL00:16:03To the other. One of the kids said. His injury was like the scanners guy.
Sonny00:16:06Yes. No, I mean.
JVL00:16:08So what other six year olds and seven year olds seeing something like that, it's like his head actually exploded.
Sonny00:16:14One of the kids. I think I have part of his brain on my nose and told told his mom, yeah, Charlie hit his head and he went to any and then it was bleeding. And they he got in an ambulance and the ambulance took him to the hospital and the hospital did surgery on him right away. And it was I was like, I guess I guess it's not wrong. Exactly. It's there's some details that are that are missing there. But it was like all the kids had had various stories. The closest the closest was one of them was like Charlie hit his head on the playground and he was bleeding and he had to go. And they they sewed his head up. And I was like, that's again, that's the very that's almost you're very close. It was. But he but my son has been very he's been very specific with people when when somebody says you got stitches. He corrects them. He says, no, I got people staples. I got I got people not paper staples, not paper staples. I got people staples. And it's like, yes, he did. He did get people staples. That's what he. So anyway, that's what my that's what that's what my week has been.
JVL00:17:34It's serious. Save Ferris. Right. Ferris Bueller. I hear he's in the hospital.
Sonny00:17:39He needs a new kidney. Right. Yeah, that's that's the that's what the kindergarten class is going through at this point with my my son.
Mike00:17:44I do have to say that the like there is a kind of hierarchy on kid injuries in terms of like what is cool. And I have a memory. I have a memory of being so I had an injury when I was a kid like summer at the pool. Bottom line is I had to get my I still have a scar. I had to get my chin was like busted open. And I remember at the time being so disappointed that instead of getting stitches, they were giving me the starry strips, the butterfly strips that sort of hold the skin together rather than because it's less invasive. It made perfect sense. But like when they said, oh, no, you're not getting stitches. It is like a part of me was like very disappointed because like stitches are cool. Like little white band aids going on your chin are not cool, not bad. And what's what's even cooler, of course, is that is it is a cast which I never I never had the fortune of breaking my arm. So but like when a kid came in with a cast at school, it was like that was that was big news for like the next three days. Yeah. So he's got a good story to tell.
Sonny00:19:02Yeah. Anyway, so that's my head. That's been my week. All right. Mike, how is your how have you cake? Mike, can I yell at you for a minute? Can I yell at you?
Mike00:19:13Go.
Sonny00:19:14Why? As we were asked, as we were starting this show, you were like, oh, my Internet's kind of kind of funky. I don't understand what's happening. And I was like, oh, well, what's going on? Are you not at home? You're like, no, I'm at home. I'm just in a different room. Why would you change? Why would you change anything? Change is bad. Just do the thing in the same room as always.
Mike00:19:34OK, listen, I just got back from a trip for work on the road and I get home and my wife has begun to move out and change things. Oops. I'm sorry. Has begun to move out and change things in what used to be her office. Because she is transitioning away from from working. And so she's getting it ready so that it could be my office so that I am out of the my office also works as our guest bedroom, our main guest bedroom, and it'll be upstairs rather than down in the basement, all these things. And so I wanted to give it a shot. There's clearly some kinks I have to work out. I should have been testing before I just jumped right into this.
Sonny00:20:26This recording so might be my I'm telling I'm telling you, like, you need to spend spend $200 by that mesh, that Eero mesh that I sent you it is it is when I moved into my house, I had an extender and it sucked. It didn't work at all. I had to like move all around the house. I put the mesh system in and it immediately everything got better. So you just do that. Just do yourself a favor and do that.
Mike00:20:53This is this is really this is really great podcast content. You.
Sonny00:20:56It is great podcast content. This is fantastic podcast content. People want you to be yelled at. They they're like, we need more Mike getting into trouble with the boys content.
Mike00:21:08I bet I'm in so much trouble. Let's see. Well, can I talk about what I was going to talk about before before you do chat and segment? Well, I already sent you guys what will take the conversation back to to baseball. I sent you guys the video of my ten year old hitting the. Best hit he has ever hit and may have may ever hit in his baseball career. And of course, I was not there. I was working out of town, unable to see it live. And I'm wondering if I had been there in a sort of butterfly effect situation. He would not have gotten that. So I am. I am split. I'm of two minds about it, but I've got the video because we use the Game Changer app. JVL.
Guest00:21:55You might be familiar.
Mike00:21:57And and so I was able to watch it. And I have watched the video, the one that I sent you guys no fewer than 25, 30 times since since it happened.
JVL00:22:09So but it was a great hit.
Mike00:22:12It was a so it was it ended up it's now the second to last game of the season. It was originally gonna be the last game, but then a rain out is now being made up on on Saturday. But it was. Two, so so they were up, but it was two outs bases loaded and and and my guy gets up there. It's a like like a perfectly placed line drive through the gap into the outfield. Have the the left fielder like like just run into the fence to chase it and scores in the three runs, gets a triple and the video you cannot tell. My wife tells me that apparently so there's a moment at the end where he's on third base and like everything's kind of settling and he like waves at the dugout. Apparently they were all like chanting his name. It was. It's like it's just like a dream moment for a kid. So you know he he's he's he's a kid who doesn't have like the the best batting average and you know he's he's sort of consistent. Yeah. For getting on base at least once a game, but usually through a walk, sometimes like a nice little, you know, single base hit. This was a big deal. This was pretty great. And and I just, you know, I'm just a proud dad bragging.
JVL00:23:38Well, let me bring it down. All baseball players are superstitious. This probably means you can't ever go see another one of his games. I know I thought about that, but I mean, that's just obvious. Yeah, he was great. I was so excited when I saw the video. Yeah. And I loved his foot speed. That was a standup triple. He didn't even slide into third base. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike00:24:01He was, he was, he was about to lap the, the, the base runner in front of him.
JVL00:24:05He, uh, and honestly, had he gone home a better than even chance that he, that the catcher doesn't handle the throw and that he's totally, totally. It was great. I, uh, I have, if you want to spend some money, I have some training implements, which I could recommend that you buy for your son. Uh, to help him work on hitting through the off season, cuz you know, the winter is where championships are made.
Mike00:24:32Sure. Um, I may take those under consideration. He's at a place in his baseball career where he talks as much about maybe I'll up when I'm old enough, uh, rather than keep playing. So he's sort of lukewarm about it. This may have boosted his. His interest in playing along, but, um, I mean, it hit me with a J are you just gonna text it to me?
JVL00:25:02I'll, I'll, I'll text it to you. Okay. There are a couple of, uh, a couple of weighted bats that, uh, that keep the weight, they keep the weight in the center of the bat. So it is not like getting a weighted bat where the, you know, all the, uh, the weight is out at the end. And so it messes up your swing. You can swing them just the way you would a normal bat, but there's a little more weight. And one of them is a one-handed bat. So you can work on just your bottom hand, right? You wanna really focus in on the bottom hand and, uh, there's a type of tee, which has a guard in it. That'll help you avoid casting cuz you, you don't wanna cast your arms out, right? You wanna stay inside. Right. Exactly. Punch it, punch it. Yeah. Yeah. That'll really help. Anyway, if you, uh, if you'd like to spend 300 bucks on some tools to, to help your son get better in the box, I'm here to help you.
Sonny00:25:53If you spend $200 on a Nero, I was gonna say, so I'm $500 short expensive show.
Mike00:25:59Yeah, exactly. Jeez. Um, all right. Uh, tell your friends and family to subscribe. Um, all right. Well, that's all that's going on. Uh, should we, should we, uh, should we talk box office? Because this is, uh, a big, you know, Hey, the, the, the, uh, super or I should say the super villain movies are back. Venom, the last dance, number one of the box office, $51 million. Is that, how is that bad?
Sonny00:26:26Is that good? That's bad. We think that's bad. That's bad. It was tracking for in the 70 to 80 range. Uh, it only did 50, uh, the, the previous one did 80 something I think in its opening weekend.
Guest00:26:39Uh, so they're not back.
Sonny00:26:40No, they're not. They're not back. I, all, all of the like Sony extended Spider-Man universe movies have, uh, have been real disappointments the over the last couple of years here. Adam Webb and, uh, Morbius, I assume Craven will turn it all around. Craven will be a billion dollar blockbuster.
JVL00:26:59Oh yeah. It looks really good.
Sonny00:27:01Um, Craven. It's funny. I saw the trailer, I keep seeing the trailer for it in theaters and like the thing about Craven is that it looks like the sort of movie that should cost $40 million and should be like just a one, just like a schlocky high concept action movie. And instead it's like $130 million and it's directed by JC Shandor and like, I, I don't know. I don't understand any of this. It's none of, none of that makes any sense to me, but someone, someone somewhere seems to think it makes sense. So I don't know the big, I, I, again, I, I continue to be, uh, surprised by the performance of Terrifier three, which is, which is still doing very well.
JVL00:27:39I saw Terrifier merch at spirit Halloween. Oh yeah.
Sonny00:27:44Oh yeah. It's all over spirit Halloween. Terrified. Terrified. So art, the clown is that's when you cross over.
JVL00:27:50Right. When you're at spirit Halloween, you've crossed over. Yeah.
Sonny00:27:53No, I, I would say art. The clown is the first iconic horror movie villain since like the little puppet thing from the jigsaw movies.
Mike00:28:04Yeah.
Sonny00:28:05Jigsaw.
Mike00:28:06I would say that I'd say that's probably the saw movies in the characters jigsaw.
Sonny00:28:11Right? Well, like the character is, is the guy, but like the, the, the iconic visual element of that is the little puppet on the tricycle. Yeah. The purge mask.
Mike00:28:23I want to play a game. Purge mask is a good, is a good alternative. Yeah.
Sonny00:28:27Yeah. But the purge mask is like kind of generic. It's not like that, that that's not a, that's also like the mask from the strangers or a, you know, it's, it's like that, that is, that's more of a, that's more of a, a generic thing. I really think that like the, that art, the clown is the first movie villain that people are like, oh yeah, that has like broken containment because you know, there's always, there's always like. Yeah. There's always niche cults, uh, horror stuff that, that, you know, goes, that goes like that's big in the community.
JVL00:29:01Is art the clown? Like what, can you explain to me the in universe biography of art?
Sonny00:29:06The clown art, the clown started as kind of a generic serial killer type, but he has always had, uh, he's always had, what's the, what, what do you call the thing where it's like space where he reaches into the bag and there's like infinite space, hammer space, he's always had hammer space as a, as a thing. And so like, as the series has gone along, the backstory here has gotten more and more convoluted. Basically, basically he's, uh, some sort of eternal demon that is doing battle with our Christ like final girl figure. Uh, but that, that is, there's the third movie is explicitly Christian in its, in its, uh, iconography in ways that are interesting. And if I was, if I was more versed in, in Christian iconography, I think you could have a real field day with, in terms of like breaking down what is actually going on.
Mike00:30:07Because I like on the one hand, you should watch it and it sounds like it's up my alley.
Sonny00:30:12It's it's on the one hand, it's probably like straightforwardly blasphemous, but it, but it is also like, there's a lot of like Virgin Mary, like a lot of the scenes take place. For reasons that for, for reasons they don't need to at all take place in churches and in like, um, uh, there's like a weird shot of a nativity scene where the Virgin Mary is holding, uh, uh, black, uh, some sort of demon blacksmith by a chain as he makes the sword that kills our, I don't know. There's all sorts of stuff.
Mike00:30:41Memento Mori. Memento Mori.
Sonny00:30:43It's a, I don't know what that means. I, so anyway, there, there's all sorts of interesting things there. Uh, I, but again, it's just, it's an, it's an enormous. Enormous, enormous hit the, you know, the outlay on this was probably less than $5 million all told between production costs and advertising and it's gross 44 million domestic, something like that. It'll probably, it'll probably get, it will probably gross almost as much as Joker Fale Adu.
JVL00:31:08How long, how far are we from the crossover version of this movie, which is art versus Jason versus Michael Myers?
Sonny00:31:17I don't know. Well, I.
JVL00:31:19Versus alien.
Sonny00:31:20Yeah.
JVL00:31:21Versus Freddy Krueger versus Freddy Krueger.
Sonny00:31:24Uh, I think still probably a pretty far way off because you know, those, those, those movies are well, so like the Friday the 13th movies are in a weird sort of rights purgatory right now. Like there's a, there's a serious intellectual property dispute over who owns what, like the guy who made the original movie has basically made a copyright claim on the original movie, but the original movie doesn't have the hockey mask Jason that comes in later sequels. So like this, so like the guy who has the claim on the original movie has the rights to Friday the 13th, the name, but the character is owned by somebody else, which is, it's, it's actually weirdly fascinating, but also has, has totally made it impossible for, uh, anything to be made. Cause nobody wants to give up, you know, their, their piece of the pie on this.
?00:32:14Sorry.
Sonny00:32:15I have more, more horror stuff than you need.
Mike00:32:18Yeah. I, I have a, I have an entry for. A, an iconic horror image or, or character between jigsaw and this one, which is maybe a little bit of a cheat. The new Pennywise from the new it, like, I feel like that's just Pennywise that's Pennywise though, but it's a different, but it looks different than Tim Curry's.
Sonny00:32:39So I, I, I see what you're saying, but again, that's not, that's not an original property. It's like it it's, you know, it, okay, well put, put up, put these, uh, you know, I don't
Mike00:32:50know, you know, is, uh, script strictures on how we're defined, but I, I take your point about Terrifier. Um, anything that needs to be said about Conclave, the, uh, you call it the woke Pope movie woke Pope, a bunch of white, uh, by the way, a bunch of my young, well, this, this movie,
Sonny00:33:07this movie is about, so the, the basic setup of this movie is the woke Pope dies and they have to pick a new Pope. Well, no. So like it, this would be like if, if the current Pope died and like the squabbling in the Vatican was between the liberals who were like, it's got the, I, I wish I, I kind of do wish you guys would see it so we could, we could do an episode on it because it, it is hilariously the, the, the politics of this are, uh, are so hilariously secular. Like what you have one, one set of Pope, one set of Cardinals who are led by Stanley Tucci. And he's like, I think we should have women priests. And, and then there's the conservative, uh, you know, Italian Cardinals. Cardinal who's like, fuck these black Cardinals. No, I don't want any of them to be Pope. And then there's the black Cardinal who has his own issues. And then like the whole thing is the whole thing. But the, the end of the movie, the last 10 minutes is where I was, where I was like joking about, you know, where, how it is woke Pope. But I, I don't want to spoil it in case we do end up, end up doing something with it.
Mike00:34:15Maybe, maybe we'll, maybe we'll, we'll take a look cause it's interesting. My, I have a bunch of young. Catholic coworkers, young, being younger than me who all went to see it together. And when I, I just kind of casually mentioned, oh, you guys saw the woke Pope movie. They looked at me like I, they were like, what are you talking? So
Sonny00:34:32They didn't, they didn't think it was woke Pope.
Mike00:34:35They were sort of, they were just there. Maybe they had like a more, a different, I don't even, you know, it sounds like there's a lot more going on than just simply a woke Pope story.
Sonny00:34:47So Yeah, no, I mean, it's. It, it, the whole thing plays like kind of a trashy airport novel, really. I mean, it's like, it's all, you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of ins and outs and what have yous. But
Mike00:34:59Yeah. Um, all right. Well, uh, there's your box office. Why don't we talk, why don't we go back, uh, in time here, 40 years to talk about the movie we're going to talk about this week, the terminator, which came out 40 years ago, but this week today, I don't know.
JVL00:35:14Uh, I think last week, last week, sure, whatever, 40 years, uh, give or take a week.
Mike00:35:19Uh, Sonny, you want to give us, I mean, do we need a big boy review of the original James Cameron, Arnold Schwarzenegger film, the terminator,
Sonny00:35:29the terminator starring Arnold Schwarzenegger as the titular terminator, uh, and Michael bean as Lieutenant Sergeant Sergeant Kyle Reese. I forget. I forget what his title is. Uh, uh, and Linda Hamilton as the mother of the, the future of humanity. She, she is speaking of Virgin Mary's. We got a, we got a, we got a savior situation here. She's going to give birth to the JC that will save us all. John Connor. Uh, but the, uh, I, uh, I love this movie. I consider it to be a perfect film. And when I say a perfect film, I don't mean like everything, every, every single thing about it is 100% perfect. There are no mistakes, blah, blah, blah. What I mean is it is, it is, it sets out to do a thing. It does that thing efficiently. And it has no real false notes to it. Um, it is, it is a perfect movie, 105 minutes or so, uh, in it, uh, it zips right along. The premise here of course is very simple. Uh, in the future, humans are at war with robots. The robots are trying to exterminate humanity. A Skynet came, came alive and, and tried to wipe us out because we tried to pull the plug on it. Uh, the, the robots however have lost. They're war. John Connor has led humanity to the brink of victory. So they, in a last ditch effort to save themselves, send a terminator back in time to kill the mother of John Connor before she is born a sort of, uh, is retroactive abortion, the right, right term here. Sort of.
Mike00:37:07That's literally what they use in the, in the, in the movie.
Sonny00:37:08A retroactive abortion, uh, of, of John Connor. Uh, and to save John Connor's wife, or sorry, to save John Connor's mother, uh, Sarah Connor, the humans send back their own champion, Kyle Reese, played by Michael Biehn, uh, who is, uh, who is just delightful. And I wanna, I, I, we, we can talk about Biehn and we can talk about Schwarzenegger in a minute, but, um, you know who I would like to discuss very quickly is a character by the name of, or, I'm sorry, not a character by the name of, uh, an actor by the name of of Rick Rossovich. You guys know Rick Rossovich?
JVL00:37:51I love Rick Rossovich, Slider from Top Gun.
Sonny00:37:54I, I love, I love Rick Rossovich because there's this period in like, from like 1983 to about 1986, where if you needed a generic meathead white guy to show up in a role, Rick Rossovich was there. He, uh, he is in not just the Terminator, but also, um, uh, Terminator 2. Uh, Top Gun. He's one of, he's one of the, the pilots in Top Gun and Streets of Fire. There's a, if, if you've ever seen Streets of Fire, which I love, I find Walter Hill's Streets of Fire to be a fascinating, fascinatingly messy, but also just like really good and entertaining rock and roll fable is what it's called. Rick Rossovich shows up and I, and I remember the first time I saw it like four or five years ago. I, I only saw it for the first time relatively recently. I saw it and I was like, Rick Rossovich, I know that guy, he's in everything from this period. I do. I like, he's one of those guys who like, I wonder how, what he thinks of his career because I find his career to be fascinating and he's in so many good movies, but he's all, he also just never quite made it. He never, he never made that second leap to like leading role star status.
Mike00:39:05He, remember he was in, he was in, which I've forgotten. And once I looked it up, I remembered he was in Roxanne, the, uh, Cyrano de Bergerac.
JVL00:39:13He was the, the, the bad guy in that that was as close as he got to leading man status. Yes. Uh, and he was in the original cast of er, the TV series, uh, I'm, I'm doing this by the way, without looking it up because I am super into Rick Ross, pitchers career in which he was cast as the third member of the love triangle. That was Juliana Margulies, George Clooney, and him, George Clooney, of course becomes his generations. Cary Grant, Julia, uh, Juliana Margulies becomes a. Bankable TV star after doing like, you know, a ton of work in the movies and Rick Ross of itch got written out after five episodes and that is basically his career.
Sonny00:39:59It totally, that's his ads, everything. So like, uh, you know, another movie he is in, he's in the Lords of Discipline. Have you guys ever seen the Lords of Discipline?
Mike00:40:06No.
Sonny00:40:07No. So the Lords of Discipline is a fascinating movie. It's it's the, the very short, we're going to do like 20 minutes on Rick Russovich and, and everything aside from the terminator. Before we even get to it, but the Lords of Discipline is it's a, it's based on the novel. It's based on a novel by the guy who also wrote the Prince of Tides. I forget his name, but it's, it is a, it is an amazing movie because you look at, you look at this movie and it has, it has, uh, it's, it's kind of like the outsiders except it's, it's a different group of like young stars, all of whom basically have this same career trajectory. So it has David Keith, not it has white. David Keith, not black Keith, David white, white, David Keith, uh, Rick Rossovich, uh, Michael Bean is in this movie. It's one of his first movies. Uh, judge Reinhold is in this movie. Bill Paxton is in this movie. I like, it just has all of these guys who like, you keep seeing people you're like, Oh, I recognize him. I recognize him. I know who that is. And it, it keeps going and like, it just is. It's a, it's this, um, but again, this is like the sort of thing Rick Rossovich did. He makes this movie, there's like four genuine leading men that come out of this movie and Rick Rossovich is still like second fiddle to everybody in every movie he's ever in.
JVL00:41:21Yeah. He is mentioned in the Val Val Kilmer's self documentary that we watched. And I, I now can't remember, but there was a detail about Rick Rossovich in it that tickled us. And I want to say it's like that he and Val Kilmer are still close friends or something like that.
Sonny00:41:39I'm, I mean, it's no good for me to say, I remember there was this really great nugget,
JVL00:41:42but there was something really great in, in the Val Kilmer movie about him. And I, now I can't place it. Yeah.
Sonny00:41:49Yeah. Anyway, the terminator, the terminator is, uh, it is, it is a perfect movie and it really is the, uh, it, I, I don't know, I don't know how to put this exactly without discounting the rest of what James Cameron does, but it is James Cameron's absolute, it's the vision of everything that James Cameron will do going forward. It's all of his obsessions and interests, both, not only, not only in terms of, you know, what the stories he wants to tell about the future and, you know, uh, humanity and all that, but also his obsessions with technology. Right? Like, so there, there's a lot of really interesting miniature work that's done in this. And they're the, like all the stuff with, um, all the future sequences with the hunter killers and, uh, the likes, the like roads of skulls that they're going over. If you look closely, you'll see, like, it's all miniature work. It's all, these are all, these are all. Um, and he does, he does it more and better in aliens. A few years later, um, the, the miniature work in that is, is amazing. And again, it like kicks it up a notch in terminator too. Um, but like without the work he is doing here with, with miniatures, with kind of early CGI laser, you know, show stuff, uh, and blue screen work. And then, um, the stop motion stuff, cuz there is, there's like the, uh, you know, the, um, oh, who's the, uh, who's the famous stop motion guy, uh, from the what's that Harry
JVL00:43:21Housen.
Sonny00:43:22Yes. So there's like the Harry, uh, the, the Harry Housen, the Harry Housen stuff, um, with the actual terminator exoskeleton endoskeleton, right. That like is, is again, like you, you can see him developing skills that he has obviously worked on for years with Roger Corman before this, that's where he gets his start, uh, and is like bringing it all to the screen. The screen and doing it in a way that is both cheap and effective. That's the thing about James Cameron. Now he's, he's kind of gotten away from the cheap as years have gone along, but he's still very effective and cost conscious. He does, he does things very well, um, and they are more expensive now, but he got his start doing them good and cheap. Uh, and, uh, you know, what can you say about, uh, Arnold Schwarzenegger in this movie that, that hasn't been said before? It's not just that he is, um, it's not just. It's not just that he is perfectly cast in terms of his size and stature and, uh, and it's not just that he's perfectly cast in terms of like understanding the limitations that he has that James Cameron kind of worked around in terms of his robotic delivery of certain lines and like, and that sort of thing. It's also that he's surprisingly funny, even in this, even in this role where he is playing a murderous robot that has no emotions and no, no feelings. It's dead pans there. The reason, you know, I'll be back became a classic line is because that is like a straight up dead pan joke that he tells and he tells it perfectly. He tells it perfectly. Um, the other thing I always forget about this movie and remember when I'm watching it is that he doesn't put the glasses, the sunglasses on until about halfway through and it changes the whole tenor of the character. You know, it changes, it changed like when he is the, when he is the robot, you know, just the robot guy. It's a different character almost than when he puts those glasses on when he puts the gargoyles on and like starts, uh, kind of blankly mowing people down. I don't know. I, uh, I love this movie. The last thing I'll say is that I watched this on DVD. I don't know. I don't know how you guys watched it, but I have owned a DVD of this movie for 22 years, 23 years, and I threw it into my 4k player. That thing upscaled to not quite 4k quality, but very close. It was like somewhere between somewhere between high def and 4k. And, uh, I gotta say I was, I was pleasantly surprised by this to the extent that I like kind of want to just throw in some of my old DVDs and see how they look.
Mike00:46:04Um, just to, was this a special edition of DVD of any kind?
Sonny00:46:09I mean, it was like, it was, it was the D again, it was the DVD that came out 22 years ago. So it's, it's, it's an, it is an old disc. I've had this since I was in college.
JVL00:46:17This isn't even a Blu-ray.
Sonny00:46:18No, it's not even a Blu-ray. Let alone a 4k Blu-ray.
JVL00:46:20Right, right. This is a standard def.
Sonny00:46:22Just a standard def disc and between, between the, between whatever algorithms my 4k player and my 4k TV are using it again, not 4k quality. It's still a little bit soft. You can especially see it in any writing on screen, a little bit, little bit soft, a little bit fuzzy, but it looked great. Whatever, whatever magic they are running through those machines is pretty, pretty impressive. Anyway, that's what, those are all of my thoughts. Those are all of my random interconnected, unconnected thoughts on the terminator.
Mike00:46:57Thank you. Thank you, Sonny. Uh, JVL.
JVL00:47:00It is a perfect movie. It's it's so perfect. I can even tell you where I was the first time I saw it. I, uh, I watched it. My buddy, Jeff Dinsmore's house when I was in high school and just, you know, like three or four guys, we got together. And, you know, walked up to the Hollywood video, wasn't called Hollywood video, whatever the, the video store in main town was Ritz movies or something. And we, you know, rented a copy of it on a VHS and threw it in. None of us had seen it yet. And we were like, this is great. This is a really great, um, it's nothing in it tells you the kind of filmmaker the camera would become though, because this feels like an art house movie in a way. And it doesn't, I, I, well, maybe it did not suggest to me that this is a guy whose imaginatory scope would be come as, as wide as it, it did, uh, like weirdly tender things. The only time we ever see boobies in a Jim Cameron movie.
Sonny00:48:02Not true.
JVL00:48:03Oh, that's not true.
Sonny00:48:04Kate Winslet and Titanic, right? Titanic, but also the abyss.
JVL00:48:06Well, I guess that's right. There's a little bit of femininity there too. Um, and it's just stuff full. It is stuffed full of people who have become character actors that we all know, right? Not just Rick Rossavage, but like Brian Thompson and Bill Paxton, Bill Paxton is in it. Um, who's the, the guy who eventually who we'll see in a total recall, uh, what's his name? Earl bone. Boone. It's a, I mean, it's, it's just a wonderful, very taught movie and it's as much a thriller as it is an action movie.
Mike00:48:45Yeah. Oh, and it's, it's, it's a horror movie in a lot of ways.
JVL00:48:50Yeah. Yeah. I guess I would, I have, I would have this question for you guys. First of all, Cameron clearly understood that the terminator itself was the star of the movie. That's why he calls the movie, the terminator and not like the, you know, the time assassin is like, it calls it that of why he put Arnold's face on the poster. But do you think. I think he understood that the character would be embraced as the character that the audience loved and identified with most does that.
Mike00:49:24So I I'm coming at this without the real time, not like in my memory, the terminator only existed with both terminator and T2 because of my age. And so I don't know. So, so I'm, I'm, I'm not a good judge of this. But it, it wasn't the case that, that he figured this out after the terminator came out. Or was it that Arnold himself had become such a beloved actor that to make T2, he had to
JVL00:50:01make no, I believe that he and Arnold, when they wanted to make a sequel, they realized that the sequel had to have the terminator, but also he couldn't be a bad guy this time because the audience. Loved the character so much. Okay. And so they had to figure out a way to do the movie in which that character became a, a face. Right. But my question is just, do we think that he knew going in that that's what would happen or not? Like he clearly understood the centrality of the character, but I think he maybe didn't understand that it would be much more like Darth Vader.
Sonny00:50:37Then I don't, I don't think anybody could have understood that until you see him being played by Arnold Schwarzenegger. I do. I like Arnold Schwarzenegger is like, he has that star quality thing that is so hard to define and discover. And he, he like, he imbues that character with a, with a, you know, there's always been rumors of like OJ Simpson was going to play him and like maybe OJ Simpson is able to do that character the same way, but I don't think it has the same kind of cultural impact, you know?
JVL00:51:11No, I totally agree. Um, I guess the last question is philosophically, like, doesn't this run counter to the argument that there is no fate, but what we make, because the, the setup is the problem is the machines don't understand how the paradox of time works. And so the machines don't understand that by sending back in time, the Terminator, they cause John Connor to be born. Right, right. Um, but that lesson is counter to the, I mean, Sonny, you have had deep thoughts about this in the Terminator series and how Cameron sort of embraces and then unembraces this idea of fate.
Sonny00:51:58Well, the, the, the series has always been kind of at war with itself, which is, is so, you know, the first one ends with Sarah driving off into the storm. The storm's coming, storm's coming. Right. But, you know, you're right. The storm was. Caused by the, the, you know, the machine sending somebody back who then led to the human sending somebody back, which, but the, but then in this, in the, in the sequel, they try to get away from this, right? It's the, the final shot is driving down. So I, have you guys ever watched the secret special, uh, edition ending of Terminator 2? No. The Linda Hamilton old age makeup?
JVL00:52:38No.
Sonny00:52:38And so if you, if you own. If you own Terminator 2 on DVD, the, the special edition, there's a, there's like a little, uh, Easter egg that you can punch in that will take you to a, uh, an ending that James Cameron shot of Terminator 2. So again, like Terminator 2, the theatrical ending ends with them driving down a black road and the voiceover is for, for once, the future for me is unclear. I don't know. I don't know what is going to happen. I don't know what is going to come. Linda Hamilton says there is an ending. That was shot with Linda Hamilton in old age makeup on like, as like in like future clothes. And she is like Senator of the world or something. And she's like, we saved it. We saved everything. Everything is good. We did it. We, we made our own fate and it's good now. Um, and it's probably for the best that they did not, uh, they did not use that one. The ending they have is better, but then the series, the series, uh, itself, of course, like is reverts back to actually there is fate and we were, we're always headed to, uh, self-destruction, which is Terminator three Terminator three. And this is the smartest thing. Terminator three did. I think, I think, I think you, like the series does not work without imminent robot apocalypse. Like it, it just doesn't, it doesn't make any sense. There's nothing, there is no series without that. And, um, uh, as a result, you know, the, the, the third movie ends with the, the bombs falling and judgment day happening and everybody dying and John Connor taking his rightful place as a leader of the free world. Um, which, you know, I don't know. Again, I, I like, I, I, I have various philosophical qualms one way or the other about what, what the difference between fate and free will is. And if we, you know, have it. Or whatever, but the, but the, uh, but like as a film series, it does not make sense without that. You cannot, there is no terminator series without fate. Like fate has to exist for the terminator movies to, to work.
JVL00:54:56Michael, this is, you hate to say Michael, you're like, Oh, that's overrated.
Mike00:55:00Yeah. I, yeah, I, uh, I just think it's garbage for morons. Exactly. No, I love it. Uh, it's been, it's been a while since I'd seen it. Um, and, but it's always, I, I, again, going back to, to my age, right? Like T2 is the terminator movie for, for me and my generation in that way.
Sonny00:55:22Um, yeah, I was, I was nine when I was nine, when that came out and it was like the ads were everywhere. And like, I, I did not even realize that there was a like first terminator.
Mike00:55:33I didn't see it until well, you know, it's so, it's so interesting how like these movies had such a long tails in the culture where I feel like we don't, maybe we have that with like the Marvel movies. I don't know, but it just like, like, you know, by the time I was sort of like paying attention to this stuff, like kids were still doing like terminator stuff, even into the mid nineties and late nineties. Like it was a thing. Um, but, but I will say like, I always preferred the first one to the second one. And I feel like that's like, that's not. That's not normal. That's like not the normal view. I like, don't get me wrong. I love it. Robert Patrick, like all that stuff is great in, in T2. Um, I just love the, what you described something like the tautness of, of the original of the first movie, um, the score, which I've always loved, but like on this rewatch, like it's so, it's so it's, it's, it's sort of presages the, like the, uh, the Nolan, you know, kind of, um, the, the Nolan movie scores where like, it's more about atmosphere, um, but just this, like the pulsating, like the drive of it. And it's got like a, it's got like a weird rhythm to it where it's not like a straightforward, like, like four, four time kind of thing. Right. It has.
Sonny00:57:04Yeah. What is that? It's not syncopated exactly.
Mike00:57:06It's like, there's some syncopate, but it's, it's got. I mean, it's got like, I'm sure if I looked at the score, it would have something, some kind of bizarre time signature or something because it, it doesn't fit in any, or like multiple time signatures go, you know, but it has this kind of, I mean, there is a rhythm to it. There is a, but it's, it's mechanical and it's terrifying. And just like that whole, the whole time it's just driving, uh, it's, it feels almost like it's driving Arnold forward and, and, uh, and of course at the end, like the whole, the whole end scene is just so, I mean, it's just the last 10 minutes of this movie are just straight up horror and I, I love it. It's, it just, that's so good. And, and the, the sort of, um, the, the, the, the false endings, right? Like there's a couple of them, you know, where it's supposed to be over, right? The, when the, when the truck gets blown up and, oh, you can see he's like struggling, but he's on fire and then he falls down. Okay. Everything's good. Oh wait, no, it's not. He's still, he's still coming. He's still coming towards you. And then, oh, uh, Michael bean blows them up. And of course, like it's over. Oh wait, no. Like, like the, the, the machine still keeps going. It's just, it hits all of those beats perfectly. Uh, and I, I, I love that. Um, I love, I love the way that the movie unveils the backstory and the sort of textural ruins of, you wouldn't call it textural, you know, but like the, the, the, like everything that the later movies like fill in, like about what's going on in the future and the war, like it's all kind of just there in the background. And I had actually forgotten. I didn't realize there were that many flash forwards. I guess there would be to the war. I had forgotten that there were that there were as many as there were. Um, but you still like, you don't really see a lot and that is so, um, uh, that, that really gets me into this movie. Like, I love that feeling that there's a, there's so much more to the story that we don't see. We just see this like very limited, uh, vantage point of, of it.
Sonny00:59:24And, um, I love that aspect of it. Well, this is also why, I mean, this is also why the series, so like there's, there's a fundamental paradox at the heart of the series, right? Which is that the series only works. As you were driving to the, that fateful moment after you hit it, it's kind of stops working. Like there's a reason, there's a reason that all of the, that dark fate and Genesis and, uh, you know, whatever, uh, what was the, what was the salvation? Like there's a reason that there, there's a reason those movies don't work is that because once you have done the thing, uh, once you have crossed the threshold, uh, where John Connor, takes over and is leader anymore and can no longer be retroactively aborted. It's not, it's, it's just not as, it's not as interesting.
Mike01:00:17Like then it's just sci-fi action, right?
Sonny01:00:19Then it just becomes kind of a generic, like, okay, they're, they're humans fighting robots. All right, that's fine.
JVL01:00:24But it's, it's, this is like a, in the matrix where, you know, people, the Wachowski is sort of lost side of the fact that we only, we, the audience want to spend time inside the matrix. We don't want to be in the real world in the Terminator movies. We want to be in the now. We don't want to be in the future.
Mike01:00:41Correct. Yes. That's, that's so true. Um, I think the way a couple of other thoughts, I think the way the exposition is, um, rolled out through Michael beans, just, he does these just monologues as he's driving around with, with Linda Hamilton. Um, like it, I don't know if it's Michael bean himself or the writing or whatever it's so bad and it's, it's so good. Like, like there's a, there's a, there's a purpose to him telling her all this stuff, which I think that's ultimately story, right? Like this is ultimately like this, it's the story that, that drives him to do this, but you know, like otherwise, like in another movie with another plot, like it would be just annoying exposition, but like she needs to know all of this stuff because that's why he's there. And he's got this, and he's also got this. It's kind of like, like he's meeting the mother of his hero. And so there's a, like, he has to inform her of all this stuff for the time reasons, all this stuff. And it's just a very, it's a very, uh, useful and artful marriage of like needing to tell the audience, uh, all this exposition and need, like, it makes sense within the story. And this character needs to hear this stuff. I just thought it was, I was reflecting on that, thinking about it, knowing what the story is. Oh, they do a really artful job of, of dispensing this. Information.
Sonny01:02:09And it, and it helps, I think that, uh, that in a later scene, the reason, the reason we kind of excuse all this is because in a later scene, you have the psychiatrist character who dismisses it all and says, look, there's no proof of any of this. It's just like, it's just him telling a story. And then you kind of like, you know, that this isn't true because we see them come through time. But at the same time, you're like, Oh, I guess that is true. He is just talking and saying, saying things. Maybe there, you could see why it would, would lead to some confusion.
Mike01:02:38Um, by the way, to go back to the beginning of the film, they also do a great job. Like you don't know why Michael bean is there. And like, we know it cause we seen this movie, but there's, I had to put myself back into the, in time to people watching this for the first time. And, and the movie does very little, there's no handholding in this, uh, particularly the beginning. And all, you know, is there's two naked guys who have appeared with lightning. And they're both looking for this woman and, um, you just, I, I just, I thought, I thought that aspect of it was, uh, must've been, must've been thrilling for audiences in 1984. Um, the only sour note in it is the very last, uh, line I thought, like, I just, I just cringed at Linda Hamilton saying like, you know, I, what does she say? Like, uh, I know, I know. It's coming. Right. Cause like the little kid says it in Spanish and the guy's like, he says storm is coming. And she's like, she's like, I know. And like, I just thought that was so cheesy.
Sonny01:03:48What does he say?
Mike01:03:50He says a storm is coming.
Sonny01:03:52How does he say it? What? That's what he says.
Mike01:03:56I'm just doing the impression from the movie of the Mexican gentleman.
Sonny01:04:00Did he run away real fast? Like a little mouse?
Mike01:04:07You know, I just, I have an ear for these things. I just, I, I hear it and I just have to repeat it. And I, I don't, I don't see any, any sort of.
Sonny01:04:16No, he does sound like that though. That is. Thank you. Thank you very much for backing me up.
Mike01:04:20But no, it's when she's like, I know, you know, and I just thought like it, it just, it felt like a studio note ending. So that's, that's my only, that's my only gripe. Love it. Any other thoughts, guys? No. Yes. Good movie. Great.
Sonny01:04:39Thumbs up.
Mike01:04:40Yeah. Thumbs up. Thumbs up to the Terminator. I think it's, I think it's going to do really well.
Sonny01:04:44If you've never seen the Terminator, if you, if you're, if you need something to watch, go watch the Terminator.
Mike01:04:49Yeah. All right. Well, I guess that is all the time we are going to give to this episode. Join us over at subbeacon.com. Tell your friends and family, leave us a comment and we'll talk to you next time.
Sonny01:05:08Yeah.
Mike01:05:11Man, that scene with the punks, with Bill Paxton as the punk at the beginning.
Sonny01:05:15Bill Paxton. Who's, who's the other guy who was, he was one of the.
Mike01:05:20Brian Thompson. Yes.
Sonny01:05:21Brian Thompson. Yeah. Yeah. I always think of. What's that? You know his face. He's just one of those guys.
JVL01:05:27You absolutely know his face.
Sonny01:05:29I always think of him as one of the alien assassins from the X-Files. That's where he, he like shows up in the X-Files for, for a movie. For a bunch of episodes.
JVL01:05:39He's like a bizarro world. Arnold.
Sonny01:05:44Yeah, totally.
JVL01:05:45Right. If, if Arnold had come out 11% differently, he would have looked like Brian Thompson.
Sonny01:05:52Yeah. But he just had, if he had like one or two genes just in the wrong place, it was.
Mike01:05:58He was, he was in, he was in Cobra. The, the terrible Sylvester Stallone.
Sonny01:06:04Well, and he, another, another kind of interesting. Uh, guy that's in this is, um, the, the, the, the future Terminator, the one who shows up through the tunnels.
Mike01:06:15Oh yeah. Who was, uh, what's his Franco Colombo.
Sonny01:06:18He's a, he's a, who was a bodybuilding guy with, uh, with Arnold. He's in, um, he's in the, the weightlifting documentary. That's, that's so good.
Mike01:06:26Public iron. Public iron. Um, uh, all right. Well, uh, though there was one other thing I was going to say about this. Uh, I love the. The psychologist. Right. And like the, the, the whole, the whole part, uh, where he like checks the beeper and like, oh, like I just, that everything in that scene is, is, is just fantastic. And the way Arnold like looks at the, at the window, you know, judging the sides of the window before he leaves. So great. Um, anyway, sorry, this, this movie is great. This is a really boring.
JVL01:07:03I'm sure it's fine.
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