#268. Greg Maddux and The Sphere
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This is a main-show deep dive on One of a Kind: The Story of Greg Maddux, the MLB Network documentary that JVL and Mike watched (and adored) while Sonny refused to sign up for MLB TV even for the free trial, leaving him to react from the sidelines. JVL and Mike rave about the film's charm — a surprisingly delightful Barry Bonds cameo, the "finding outs" philosophy that made Maddux a puzzle-solving artist rather than a power pitcher, Chipper Jones's story of Maddux calling his shot on a third-pitch popout, and the infamous shower-room peeing prank Maddux later downplays on camera — while also noting where the hagiography-adjacent doc falls short (skipping the "chicks dig the long ball" Nike ad entirely) and debating whether a craft-over-velocity career like Maddux's could even exist in today's data-saturated, pitch-count-obsessed game. The episode opens with an extended Sonny travel report: a 36-hour Vegas trip that included paying $90 to see Darren Aronofsky's Sphere nature film, which Sonny dissects at length as a jaw-dropping technical achievement wrapped around what he calls "anti-human Gnostic" content, plus a saga of nickel-and-dimed Frontier and Spirit flights out of DFW. From there the banter drifts into Mike's reflections on his oldest son turning 10 and kids' boundless birthday enthusiasm, which spirals into Sonny recounting the horror of his 18th-birthday surprise party colliding his separate high-school friend groups, and JVL and Mike comparing notes on their own roles as social bridges between cliques, before a quick box-office check-in on Beetlejuice Beetlejuice's big opening and Alien Romulus unexpectedly breaking through in China.
From the show notes
(Image via Wikipedia) Long episode this week! Sonny went to Vegas. JVL and Mike watched a documentary about Greg Maddux. Much to discuss, so little time to discuss it.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00We were regular season and we were winning like 8-0. It was easy game in the eighth inning. And he told me don't throw anything inside on Bagua. Call everything outside. I said okay. I think it was somebody odd. And he wants to go inside. And I'm like okay. You know it's your game. So I went inside, called inside and Bagua healed like a thousand miles. And I was mad. And I was like what are you doing? And he goes they got a good team. We got a good team. We're going to play them in the playoff. He's going to wait for that pitch. Three months later we're in the playoff. Base is loaded in the seventh. We threw three straight changes and struck him out. And I was walking to Doug. He goes hey. And I look at him. He said you remember? Three months ago, two months ago? And I said no. No, I don't. He was looking for that pitch, the homer that he hit. And I was like this guy. It's how smart he was.
Mike00:01:19Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast. I am your co-host Mike Warren. Joining me as always are my two co-hosts, a couple of Cy Young winners over here. Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at Sub-Beacon.com. Join the conversation in the comments. Listen to new episodes every Friday morning. And you can only do that at Sub-Beacon.com. Tell your friends, tell your family, tell your enemies. Why not? Sub-Beacon.com. We're going to be talking about one of a kind later in the show. But first, Sonny, what is going on? With you.
Sonny00:02:01All sorts of stuff. But what I wanted to talk about today was, so I went to Las Vegas. Went to Las Vegas for like 36 hours.
JVL00:02:12Did you see Greg Maddox while you were there?
Sonny00:02:15I did not. Does he live in Vegas now?
Mike00:02:17Yeah, he lives in Vegas. That's where he's from. He's a Vegas native.
Sonny00:02:21I did not watch, well this is one reason why I did not watch this documentary is because I was kind of gallivanting about Las Vegas. Okay. Um, but the, uh, but, uh, I want, the thing I want to discuss is not really Las Vegas itself, which is fine. I, again, I was there for 36 hours. I went to the Sphere. I went to the Sphere. Oh, you did? I saw a movie in the Sphere. I saw a movie. It's the ultimate big screen experience.
JVL00:02:47Did you see Oppenheimer inside the Sphere?
Sonny00:02:49No, no. Uh, I, it's, it's interesting. So, all right, I'll talk about this just for a minute. So the Sphere is interesting because it is in, it's like, it's insanely expensive. It's expensive to go see a movie there. It was like $90. Right, right. I mean, it was, it was, it was, but the, the experience itself is fascinatingly intense and immersive. Like, so the, the thing that is showing, the thing that I went to go see is, uh, this, this, it's essentially a nature documentary with like a little bit of fictionalized stuff packed on to either side of it. Um, by Darren Aronofsky, the guy who made, you know, Requiem for Humanity.
JVL00:03:26Yeah, The Wrestler and Pi.
Sonny00:03:28And The Wrestler and a bunch, a bunch of other stuff. And it, like, it's interesting because this thing does hit on a bunch of his ideas and obsessions, like death and rebirth. And it's very Gnostic. It's very anti-human, frankly.
Mike00:03:41Numbers and numerology and all that.
Sonny00:03:42It's anti, this movie is like, you know what's a plague on planet Earth? Humans. You gotta get the fuck out. That's literally the point of the movie. Um, anyway. Uh, but the, the experience itself was kind of, was kind of amazing. I mean, the, the screen is obviously, I mean, it's enormous. It's like the biggest IMAX you've ever seen times 20. Um, and it, and it, it's, it's on the inside of the sphere. So it like curves up and around. And there are like, there are shots in this thing where you're walking into a cave and it really does feel like you are going into a cave, you know, because the, you know, the, the resolution is, I think 16 K or something like that.
Mike00:04:22Yeah. Was this film made specifically for the sphere?
Sonny00:04:26Yes.
JVL00:04:27And it has, it is shot. So it is immersive all around you.
Sonny00:04:32It is immersive all around. So like it starts, it's the opening segment is it like basically is like a, you know, standard 16 by nine screen. And then once you get into the, the nature documentary part of it, it like expands. It does, it does, you know, it does, it does the trick that some movies do in IMAX where it like expands the, you know, to really.
JVL00:04:53This is how IMAX movies, when IMAX first started, they would have these like 20 minute hang gliding.
Sonny00:04:59Well, no, so that's exactly what this is. This is the world's greatest IMAX museum movie. I mean, like, you know, it's, it's, it's amazing. It is amazing. And again, so like the resolution is 16 K and it's, uh, and it's, and it's in super high frame rate. It's probably 120 frames per second, maybe higher. So it is, it is immersive and it's like, you're there. I mean, there, you, you go to places and it feels like you're there and you know, there's some, there's some warping because of the curve screen. But it's not, it's, it's not bad. And it's, it's sometimes intentionally used to create, you know, weird effect. Anyway, it was, it was fascinating. The whole thing was, the whole thing was kind of amazing. I don't know. I feel like it makes, what's that?
JVL00:05:44How long is the movie? It's not long. It's like 16 minutes.
Sonny00:05:46No, no, it's, no, it's longer than that, but it's, it's 50 minutes or so, 45, 50 minutes. Oh, that's good. So it's like a full, that's a great experience. It's, it's the perfect amount of time, frankly, any, any longer than that.
JVL00:05:58I would a hundred percent pay. $90 for that.
Sonny00:06:00It's, it's 100. Well, so, and this is the thing is like, on the one hand, I'm like, is this worth $90 on the other hand? I'm like, yes. And then on the third hand, I'm like, will people go to see this? And then on the fourth hand, I'm like, well, it's Vegas. So they got to do something. It's like the thing that you do for a night. It's like your, it's your Vegas. It's your Vegas.
Mike00:06:18It's like going to see a show or, or. Right.
Sonny00:06:20And like, frankly, I would rather go see this than Cirque du Soleil or something.
Mike00:06:24Will they, will they show the Minions movies?
Sonny00:06:27I don't, I don't know. I, that's what I want to see. I'm, I am curious what the, what the broader, because I don't think, I don't think most movies, even something like Oppenheimer, I don't think would really work in this. You have to really shoot it for the like giant curve screen. Otherwise, things are going to be weird.
JVL00:06:45You need multiple cameras to shoot that, right? Like when you, when people shoot film for the Oculus, like they, the kit, the setup is multiple cameras at all. Right. All time.
Sonny00:06:57Yeah.
JVL00:06:58So it must require that. What does this sound like? I mean, it's a concert hall, so I assume the sound is.
Sonny00:07:04The sound's great. Amazing. The sound's amazing. And this is the thing is I bet it, I bet I would, I would like to see a concert there. I would like, I wish I could have gone to see like the U2 shows there. Those look amazing. I'm not really a Fisher Grateful Dead guy, so I, you know, I don't, but like, I imagine those are also pretty fun in terms of, but it was, it was a, it was pretty, it was, it
Mike00:07:24was pretty cool. So the, the sphere, I saw the sphere. When a year ago, he flew into Vegas on our way to Hawaii for vacation. And like, it's, it's so wild to see it from the air as you're landing at McCarran. It's like, it's this, it's, I mean, it is exactly what as described, it's just this giant sphere in the middle of the desert. And it's the whole thing. It's like, it adds to the effect of Las Vegas being this bizarro place. And just like. In comedy, they often refer to as like, don't put a hat on a hat, you know, don't put a funny hat on top of something else. That's funny. But like, that's what the sphere feels like. It's like, oh, let's, let's make it more Vegas. Let's make it more adult theme park.
Sonny00:08:14Well, and again, the fascinating thing about this movie is that it is like, the whole point of the movie is humanity is a, is a plague on earth that has created monuments to itself. And like, and there's, there's literally a moment in, there's literally a moment in the, in the, in the film where Aronofsky does a hard cut from, from nature to, to what is a, like an opera hall, like a, like a Mozart era opera hall, except it's not, it's not, but it's just like, it's like, it's like an opera hall of people in white tie and tails and they're staring directly back out at the audience. And it holds on that for like an uncomfortable, it holds on, it holds on that for like an uncomfortable 20 or 30 seconds. And then, and then it reverses angle and you see it's a, you know, the, the, the, the they're looking at a person doing a performance and like the, the over the narration over it is like, and then we started, we stopped building monuments to the earth. And again, like the, the whole section before this is Aronofsky describing churches and houses of worship as monuments to the earth. We built monuments to mother nature. And I'm like, that's not what those are. That's, this is, I understand there. You could make a, you could make a case, right? That the cathedrals and the. Great spires are, uh, monuments to God's creation and the wonder that, but I'm like, I'm like, this is, this is pure pagan Gnostic nonsense.
Mike00:09:39It's, it's, it's, it's about the looking up to heaven. It's like looking away from earth. That's the whole point of the sweeping.
Sonny00:09:45And this is the thing about Aronofsky is that he is actually, he is not, he's not. He's not an atheist. He's a Gnostic. He's a Gnostic. Yes. He like is there. There's a really interesting breakdown of the movie, movie Noah that is, that is if you, if you read it as a Gnostic, I'm pronouncing this right. Right. Not Gnostic. Uh, if you read it as a Gnostic religious text, it's actually like, it's like, it's a one-to-one like from, from Noah, like wrapping the serpent skin around his hand and the opening moments to the, to the death and rebirth and everything. But also that's what mother is. Mother is about the cycles, the like death, the constant death, rebirth. And that's what this movie is. Literally. It is. It is.
Mike00:10:27Anyway, like it's Darren Aronofsky. It's the guy who says I'm not religious. I'm spiritual.
Sonny00:10:33Yeah. Except I, but except he's also like, he's like, he was raised, I think Orthodox Jew, uh, but very Jewish, like pie is all about pie is pie is about Kabbalah and numerology and, you know, and, and, and the confluence of numbers and religion. Anyway, it's fascinating. I'm still like working out. I'm going to write something about this and I'm still trying to work out exactly what it, what I'm going to write, but like it's, it's fascinating anyway. So the sphere was. I've done 10 minutes on the sphere. Now I didn't want to talk about that at all, but the, uh, but the, but the, what I want to talk about right now, what I want, what I wanted to talk about, no cheetahs, please. What I wanted to talk about was, uh, the, my, my flight experience. So like long story short, I had to, I had to truncate this trip. It was originally going to be like a full two, you know, two to three, I guess what three, three days, two nights trip, you know, standard, the amount of time you can be in Vegas without wanting to kill yourself. Um, uh, And instead it wound up being, I was there for about 36 hours. So I like, I had to cancel my Southwest flight. I fly Southwest everywhere. Now I love it. Southwest is great. I had to cancel my Southwest flight. I got my flight credit and the only flight I could get that worked with the times I wanted to go and come back were, uh, were frontier and spirit. Have you ever, have you guys ever flown frontier and spirit?
Mike00:11:51Oh yeah. It's it, it is a Sophie's choice.
JVL00:11:55If there ever were, I flew frontier once in there. Post no, no. Cause I used to fly it a lot. Right. It used to be back when it was a, we've talked about this before, back when it was a nice carrier before they decide to in shitify it. Yeah. And spirit has always been in shitified. Yeah.
Sonny00:12:13But, uh, yeah, I, so I, I re keeping all of these conversations in mind, I was like, all right, what are, what are we, what are we looking at here? Because the thing about spirit and frontier is that they nickel and dime you on everything, right?
Mike00:12:24The, the whole point is like the Ryan air, it's the Ryan era model, the
Sonny00:12:29base fare is incredibly cheap and then they get you by like you, like if you want a soda on the airplane, it's like $5, right? Or if you want, if you have, you want, do you want, do you want to, you want the air in the cabin because that's no, but it's, so the, the, the big thing is bags, right? So if you want to bring a carry on bag, it's like $60. If you want to bring a, if you want to check a bag, it's like actually slightly cheaper. It's like $50. Um, uh, and then, you know, you, you pay a little more if you want to choose where you sit, et cetera, et cetera. So I, the, the flight out was frontier air. I was flying out of DFW. This is the other thing about frontier and spirit is it's out of DFW, which is a fucking nightmare. But the, so I, I, uh, I was frontier out in spirit back.
JVL00:13:13Oh, frontier. I took to both worlds frontier.
Sonny00:13:17I took, I, so I, I had the frontier finger cuffs. The frontier flight was, uh, was, uh, was a red eye. Basically it was 11. The flight took off at 11 PM, landed in Vegas at 1159 PM. Love that time.
JVL00:13:29Oh,
Sonny00:13:29takes off at 11, gets it, gets in Vegas at 1159. Um, and it was nonstop. And because it was, because it was, uh, because it was, you know, the latest possible flight, there was nobody on it. It was like, there were like 40 people on the flight. But of course, if you don't pay for your seat, they put you all together in the
JVL00:13:47same row to make you then pay because fuck you.
Sonny00:13:51That's why. And so if you want to get out of that, you have to, you have to pay to. So I was going to, I was going to try and I was going to try and, I was just going to, I was going to, I was going to, I was going to go and I was going to do it the cheapest way possible. I literally don't like, hold on. I've got, I got, I got, uh, I'm showing them a bag that is like a flight bag. You see how it's kind of like square, like narrow or wider at the bottom. And it kind of opens up like a, like a doctor's bag and like an old West movie. Right. It like kind of, but I was able to get, I was able to get enough clothes for the two, the, the, essentially the, I w you know, I was going to get in at midnight, so I didn't really need to change clothes that day, but I got a change of clothes for the next day and then something to fly back in that was essentially like I, uh, anyway, I, uh, but I was able to get all of my clothes in what amounts to a laptop bag. Um, and so I was like, I'm not paying for any bags. Fuck you. I'm not paying for any bags. Uh, got it all in there. And I was worried that when I got there, they were going to be like, sir, that's too big for a personal, but nobody gave me any. Reef because there were people there who were trying to bring on like straight up, like carry on bags are like, no, this is my personal item, sir. That's not, you have to pay, you have to pay a hundred dollars now. Cause you have to check this at the gate.
JVL00:15:11Uh, just slip them a 20.
Sonny00:15:14I don't, I don't know.
JVL00:15:14You just give the gate attendant cash.
Sonny00:15:17I would bet, I would bet those guys are working on like some sort of commission. Like they have like a bounty where like, if you, if they get a number of certain, they have to get a certain number of fake personal items.
Mike00:15:29No. You know what this, this, this, no, the, the answer to your question, JBL is like, this is like the scene and the last season of the Sopranos where the, the two wise guys go to, to, to rough up and get their, get their
JVL00:15:42payment from like the, the Starbucks, right.
Mike00:15:46Or it's not Starbucks, but whatever. And, and the guys, that's right. And, uh, the guy's like, I mean, if like, I can't give you anything like everything's every, every bean here is, is, uh, is measured by corporate in Seattle. So. Uh, and, and like the, the mob, like we don't live in a world where like slipping a 20 to like a S uh, an airline employee is going to work.
Sonny00:16:07No, that might work in Vegas. You might be able to get away with that in Vegas, but not, not in DFW. Uh, so anyway, so I, so I was able to, so I had my one personal item. That was it. It was, it was fine. But when I, when I saw the seat assignments and I saw that I was like in the middle of two other people already, I was just like, well, I'm going to pay the, I'm going to pay the $30 to get a window seat somewhere. So I did that and, and that was fine. So, so, so.
JVL00:16:29Question.
Sonny00:16:30Yes.
JVL00:16:30What happens if you had sat down like that? Yes. Great. You take off, you excuse yourself to go to the restroom and on your way back, you just sat in a different row.
Sonny00:16:38The whole point of the, the airline, the flight attendants will drag you out of that seat and put you back.
JVL00:16:44Is that really? So there's nobody else sitting here, but sir, you have to go back to your middle. I'll get to this.
Sonny00:16:49I'll get to this. We're, we're not, we're not. So I, so I paid the, and the flight out was fine. I mean, it's, it's an interest. It's an interesting clientele, the 11:00 PM, Monday night flight. Out of DFW on Frontier to Vegas, interesting group of people. Give me rough demographic, not my normal, uh, flying companion folks.
Mike00:17:11It was drunk folks, old drunk, anybody who, who could be a degenerate gambler. Like just put that kind of person in your mind, I it's characterize them for me.
Sonny00:17:22And just a few views, just sketch me, there's no way, there's no way to do it without coming across as like a terrible, awful elitist, but it's definitely like, look, these, the people who are flying this flight flight, because they can't afford to fly another flight. Oh, I'll just put it that way.
JVL00:17:34And like that, and, and, but they can't afford to go to Vegas to gamble.
Sonny00:17:38This comes with, but it was also, but it was also like, it was also like a lot. I mean, it looked, it was like families and, you know, like it, and this, and this comes with other attendant things, like lots of people listening to their cell phones, play music in the waiting area, whatever, whatever, luckily, once we got on the airplane, the, the attendants put a fucking stop to that. They were like, if you want to, you can watch your phone and you put on headphones, you cannot listen to, cause they are like stop. Oh, if you, if you try and sit in a wrong seat, they will drag you back to the other one.
JVL00:18:10So these are not friendly attendants. Like you get on South.
Sonny00:18:13Oh no. Oh no, it is. It is.
JVL00:18:16There's no hearts. There's no hearts.
Sonny00:18:18There's, there's a, the, the, it's not just the clientele that's different on the 11 PM flight out of DFW. The crew is also like the corrections.
JVL00:18:28Officers then flight attendants.
Sonny00:18:30Yes. It's like the corrections officers and orange is the new black, not even like friendly. All right. Uh, so the, um, all right. So, so the flight out, the flight, the flight, I was fine. Honestly, it was, we took off on time. We landed on time. I, I sat in my aisle. I like tried to sleep. I couldn't really, cause I didn't, I didn't have anything I could use as a pillow. Like I was like kind of stretched. I was, it was miserable, but that was just because it was like, by the time we landed, it was two in the morning and I don't stay up till two in the morning, you know? Uh, so. Uh, so flying back, flying back was kind of the same thing where like, all right, I, I, I just decided that I was going to get, uh, the, uh, it wasn't direct. It was two legs. I decided I was going to get the, um, the, uh, the exit aisle or the, yeah, the exit. I was, I was going to pay a little extra for the exit row and it wasn't that much. It was like $11 per leg. So it was like, I paid like $22. I paid $22 to sit in the exit. And the first exit row was like a normal exit row where, you know, there's like an extra, probably two or three feet of space. Yep. The, the second leg of the flight from Phoenix to Dallas, it was like, there was like six feet between me and the other, the next row. I mean, it was like, I could have done yoga there. I mean, it was, it was like, it was an enormous space. So anyway, I paid, I paid the extra money there. Uh, so both flights cost about 130 bucks. It was like 260 round trip, which is, which was like, I, I, it was pretty cheap, relatively cheap. Um, I did not buy any drinks or anything, but so I'm sitting in the exit row on the flight from Phoenix to Dallas back and somebody, somebody did this, somebody switched to the exit row. Oh, somebody switched the exit row and the flight attendant came in and was like, sir, um, you can't sit here. This is a, this is a premium area. This is a premium seat. You cannot, you cannot sit in this, in this space, uh, unless you would like to pay to upgrade. You can do that. You will do that right now. She pulled out a little iPad and the guy was like, the guy was like, well, how much is it? And first she said off the top of her head, she was like, it's like a hundred dollars. And he was like, what? And then she was like, hold on, let me check. And then she looked and she was like, it's like $50. He was like, what? And so, and I think he, I think he like negotiated her down to about $35. And I was just like, I was like, this is like flying out of the like in
JVL00:20:51Jersey, if you pay cash, we could do a little better.
Sonny00:20:56It was, it was, it was really. It was, it was something else. It was, it was something else. But again, again, but again, this, the flight, these, my flights from, from Vegas to, from Vegas to Phoenix and Phoenix to Dallas were both great because I paid a little bit extra. So I had the row all to myself and like, it was a beautiful thing and it, and, and it was, you know, they're, they're, they're the awful thin chairs that don't have any padding and don't recline. And like, I'm not a recliner on airplanes. I never recline, but I would. On this one, because there was nobody else, like I would have reclined and like taking a nap, but I, of course, you know, they're the shittiest chairs imaginable, so I couldn't do that. But I will say, so I will say Spirit and Frontier were totally fine for me on these weird off times that I was flying and I, and I was willing to spend just that little bit more to get like the seat away from everybody else. It, it, it all worked out. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it if I was going on a trip where I would have to bring a bag. Yeah. Because once you start flying, you're like, I'm not going to be able to start paying for bags. It's like, it's, it's, it's as expensive as anywhere else. You might as well just fly Southwest. Yeah. But anyway, it was, it was kind of, it was, it was an interesting experience. I don't necessarily want to do it again, but it was an interesting experience.
Mike00:22:12So all of this tells me, Sonny, that, um, you, you lost money in Vegas. If your two big stories are about the sphere and, and the flights in.
Sonny00:22:21Oh, I lost like a hundred bucks. We didn't, I didn't even gamble that much. I didn't, I didn't, I did not, I did not gamble, uh, very much at all. Honestly, it was.
?00:22:32Okay.
Sonny00:22:33All right. I just wasn't, I was here for a bachelor party. And the guy who, whose bachelor party it was, is not like an inveterate gambler. He, he's like the sort of guy who puts in like 20 bucks at video poker and plays video poker and gets drinks from the bar. And like, okay, that was, that was great.
JVL00:22:48Where'd you stay? What hotel?
Sonny00:22:50We stayed at the park MGM, which was, uh, which is nice. It's like, it's, it's almost like a boutique casino. It's like the smallest MGM property. And it's, it's like, it's pretty, it's, it's nice. We went to, uh, we went to, uh, this really good Korean barbecue place for dinner on Tuesday night called, uh, I think best friends. Um, but it's, it's, uh, it's by some like celebrity food truck chef. Um, who, uh, some AJ Choi, I think is his name.
Mike00:23:19Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know him.
Sonny00:23:21Uh, yeah, but it's, um, yeah. Roy Troy. I'm sorry. Roy, Roy Troy. Uh, best friend at park MGM. Um, which is, it was like, I, the food was amazing and there was a lot of it. We paid.
Mike00:23:35Sorry. KJ Choi is a, is a professional golfer.
Sonny00:23:38I was like, I knew that was wrong. That's why I looked it up. That's why I looked it up. Uh, Roy, Roy Troy, uh, uh, was, uh, Roy Troy's best friend is, and, and we got, we got like the prefix, you know, menu, but it was like, it was like 75 bucks and it was more food than I've ever eaten at a restaurant in Vegas. I mean, it was, it's like, it's like, you know, you pay that much for the buffets now, like 75 bucks. And I would rather get this like very good curated Korean barbecues is terrific. Korean barbecue, uh, plate, you know, it was good. It was, the food was, the food was great. Uh, the, the hotel was great. I, we, we had a very good time. I went to, all right, that, that's it. That's it. I'm, I've done talked for 23 minutes. I got it. I got to stop.
JVL00:24:22All right. JVL what's going on? No, I ceded my time to the sphere talk. I, uh. Ah. Okay. I really, I, I, I just wanted to hear all about this. This was all I needed.
Sonny00:24:31We should go, we should do a, we should do a live show from the sphere. We could. I love that idea. There's like a, there, there's, so the, the inside, like the actual venue is very nice too. It's very clean and modern looking and they have these dumb robots talking to people about like the future and how we're all going to live to be 200.
Mike00:24:46It's like Epcot.
Sonny00:24:47It really is like, it really is Vegas Epcot. I mean, it's 100% Vegas Epcot. That's all it is.
Mike00:24:53The world of tomorrow. Uh, all right. All right. Great. Well, uh, I'm fine. Uh, this, so we're recording this on, on the day, uh, my oldest turns 10, which has sort of put lots of, yeah, it's, it's like, I'm going through a lot as he turns 10, you know, just like reflecting and thinking. And it's like, it's that, that feeling, which every parent knows where it's like, you can't believe it's 10 years, but also like it, you absolutely can believe it's 10 years. It's just. Uh, a lot has happened, but you, you go back to that, to that point. Um, and, and even before you had kids and just reflecting on that, but what I wanted to bring up was just the way in which my oldest, uh, treats birthdays, um, which is so different than the way I feel about birthdays or certainly the way I feel about my birthday. So, you know, he's the, his birthday is the event of the year for him. He's, and he's like, he's talking about, he talks about his birthday like six months before. Uh, and, and, um, the, just the excitement has been building and building. And so like last night he had, he had a baseball game and I could hear him in the dugout, like talking about his birthday to all of his teammates. And like, just like, he's just like walking, you know, six inches off the ground and, and then we're driving home from the game and he's like, you know what? You know, birthday, it's kind of like the night before your birthday. It's like the night before Christmas. You just can't wait to wake up. And, uh, and he's just, I kind of love it. It's so, it's so infectious. Um, you know, he, he, uh, woke up this morning and he was up early, like just like Christmas and, you know, we gave him, uh, he opened some presents from us, uh, and, um, and they just had a birthday party tomorrow and blah, blah, blah. But, um, it's so, it's just. It's just so the opposite of even as a kid, the way I thought about my birthday, which I was so I was, I was almost, and I still feel this way. I'm like embarrassed about celebrating my birthday. There's something very, that makes me very uncomfortable about it.
Sonny00:27:11And don't like it. Don't care for it.
Mike00:27:13Okay. Sonny, you're, you're with me on this. Really? Yes. And I always, this makes me so sad. Well, it's still don't feel sad. I feel fine.
Sonny00:27:22Like you should feel nothing. Just another day.
Mike00:27:26Well, it's, it's like, it's, it's, I'm not saying it's not nice, you know, to get like a, you know, a call from my brother on my birthday. Hey, happy birthday. Yeah. That's very nice to hear that. You know, I'm not saying I don't, but, but, but I even remember as a kid, this is just me. I think I'm just weird, but I was always like, like we're too old to be, to be celebrating my birthday. And like, I felt this way at like age eight. Like I was just, I was just a kid who was just always like ready to be an, a grownup, I guess. And, um, but I always, so, so I'm enjoying the way my son is enjoying his birthday because he's enjoying something that I could, I never could. Um, and yeah, so I, again, I don't mean to say I'm, I'm certainly not ungrateful for, you know, birthday parties and stuff when I was growing up or birthday presents from my gray mom or whatever, but it's just, so Sonny, you feel this way. This is like, it's kind of, it's kind of, and it's certainly, I just don't like to be
Sonny00:28:26the center of attention. I don't, I don't like to be the center of attention. I dislike it. It's not a, it's not a thing I like. It's one reason I don't love going on TV, frankly, I don't like the idea of all these people looking at me. Um, making jokes. It's why I do a lot of podcasts, but I do a lot of, I, I'm okay with being kind of silent and being, being heard, but not seen, but, uh, I, I think I've told you guys this before about my 18th birthday, my, so my 18th birthday, my parents did the loveliest thing. My parents did. They did the loveliest thing. They planned a surprise party for me. They, they had all my friends show up, they had all my friends come to our house and we're hanging out and, and I didn't know I went out like I went, it's, you know, this is how clueless I am. My, my dad was like, Hey, let's go pick up pizza. I was like, okay, sure. Let's go pick up pizza. So we go and we pick up pizza. We come back and, uh, you know, all of my friend's cars are like on the street. I like, I just did not notice right over my head. So I didn't, uh, happy birthday. And I almost had a fucking stroke because the problem, the problem, the problem is it wasn't the surprise, like whatever the problem was, I realized that all of my different groups of friends were there together. So like, I don't know about you guys, but growing up, like I straddled many different friend groups. Sure. Sure. I was friends. I was friends with athletes. I was friends with smart kids. I was friends with, you know, kind of the nerds and like, you know, basically you could find us. If you could, I like, I like covered like three of the breakfast club groups, basically
Mike00:30:00sportos, motorheads, geeks, sluts.
Sonny00:30:03Yeah. And I, and like, I, it was, I was basically friends with the Molly Ringwald group, the, uh, the, um, Anthony Michael Hall group and the Emilio Estevez group. Those are like all three. And that's, and that's fine when I'm dealing with any of them individually and I can do, I can code switch with them and you know, talk, but when they're all together, it's like, it's like, I got to talk about the fucking Marvel collectible card game next to, uh, you know, the, the, you know, the cool kids and the jocks like, what am I supposed to do with this? How am I supposed to handle it? So I like, I, this was literally my nightmare. It was, it was, it was like the nicest thing they, they, they did for me in high school. It was like 100% my nightmare was just like, this is, I hate this. I hate all of this. Um, so that's, that's, that's my relation. That's that's me with birthdays. That's me with birth.
JVL00:30:54Got it. So this, this may surprise you, but in high school I was the bridge between all of these groups and not, not just between the groups in my school, but between my school and the other high school in town, the little Quaker school where my best friend went. And so, because he would come and hang out with my public school friends and I would go hang out with his private school friends, like our two friend groups even sort of started to a tiny bit of commingling and it. So I, I love bringing, I mean, interesting groups together. Now you could not pay me to be around other human beings who aren't my family.
Sonny00:31:33That is, that is, that, that is surprising to me, frankly. I thought you were going to say, I did not like to be around anyone.
JVL00:31:38No, I know. I loved, loved, loved bringing different groups of people together.
Mike00:31:45So it's interesting. It's interesting that you've brought that, this idea of bridging the friend groups, because I have been thinking about this a lot. So I have a group of friends. That we still talk, we've talked like daily. Some of them listen to this podcast. I think we talk daily over text and there's, there's seven of us and some of them I've known since we were practically in diapers or, or like toddlers, some of them since like middle school, roughly, but core group, most of us, almost all of us went to the same high school. One went to high school down, down the road. But we all have stayed close to this day and that. So that was like my core friend group, but I w w with you guys also had groups of friends in other places. I had sort of, uh, I did not do marching band in high school, but I, I was in the band in the concert and like jazz band and stuff. So like I had a lot of band friends, um, I did lots of other extracurriculars at friends. And so, and there were some crossover with the, with the core friend group and all this. And then there was the, but our, our real bridge was one of my friends. In this group is a twin and his twin brother's friends, uh, were a completely separate group. And so I recall there were these sort of moments where we would kind of all to get, get together. And a lot of these kids, like we're going to school together since elementary school. So it wasn't like they were that it was that unfamiliar, um, but it was sort of always an interesting mix. Cause our group of friends was like, we were all like in the sort of the, the accelerated, the, the AP classes and the other group kind of weren't. And so we really didn't see each other a lot. It was just like kind of, they were a little more, they're a little more country. We're a little more rock and roll, not rock and roll, but like they were, they were kind of, they were kind of, uh, just from a different, different interests. Um, and it was always kind of interesting to me, even to the time being like, this is like an interesting mix here. What, like what, what, what kind of, what kind of, uh, we did get into like shenanigans, but they were like, they were like, it was just. It was just, it was a very weird. Yeah.
JVL00:33:55So I remember helping my jock friends lose their virginity with the drama girls and vice versa. And you know, I did a lot of matchmaking between the different groups. Ah, matchmaking. Yeah. It was good. Everybody came out happy.
Mike00:34:08All right. Well, as long as none of these friend groups tried to celebrate my birthday, I was, I was then it was cool. Anyway. Uh, all right, well, uh, why don't we move on and, uh, talk about box office. Cause we got to talk about the number one movie in. Uh, at the, at the theaters this, uh, this past weekend, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, uh, number one, uh, I guess dethroning Deadpool and Wolverine, uh, which is now at number two. Uh, we're not watching Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. We talked about the original last week. Um, any thoughts on where we are in the box office guys?
Sonny00:34:43No, I mean, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice is an enormous head, $111 million. I mean, like, I don't know, this is why they make movies like this. Do you, do you remember? Do you remember Beetlejuice? You'll probably like Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, and everybody showed up and it's more Beetlejuice. You got double the Beetlejuice Beetlejuice times two people who made Battleship are probably
JVL00:35:05looking at this going, what the fuck? This is what we did. Why didn't our movie make money? We took this thing that everybody kind of knows about and likes from their childhood. We turned it into a movie. You're supposed to be able to make a lot of money when you do that.
Sonny00:35:19That's how it works. Why? Why can't Hasbro make this work? I don't have a ton to say. It's an enormous hit. It'll probably hold okay. Everything else is about, nothing else was in double digits, millions. It was all Deadpool and Wolverine is seven months. I don't know. Alien Romulus will hit. Is the box office back? Alien Romulus will hit a hundred million domestic this week. What's interesting is that that has been a huge hit in China, weirdly. It's the first real big Hollywood hit in China since, uh, whatever the most recent Godzilla movie was. Um, which is kind of fascinating.
Mike00:35:59I don't know. Did we talk about this? What is it ends with us? We talked about this already.
Sonny00:36:03Am I, am I crazy? Uh, Colleen Hoover. Oh, that's right. That's right.
Mike00:36:07Okay. Yeah. Chicklet. All right. Well, let's get onto the main show then, man. Should we do that? Should we talk? Should we move on from the box office? Talk main show here because we watched well JVL and I watched a one of a kind on MLB TV a documentary that got a ton of hype, uh, uh, in, in sort of, they're showing clips on social media and that's how I got on my radar. This is a documentary about the professor mad dog himself, Greg Maddox, the, the, certainly the smartest pitcher ever, uh, maybe one of the greatest pitchers in major league baseball of all time. Um, JVL, you want to, you want to sit again since Sonny didn't watch it, JVL, you want to give us kind of a overview of.
JVL00:36:50Yeah. So the, uh, one of a kind, the story of Greg Maddox, uh, so this is a very, very, very niche interest and I understand that. And to see it, you have to have MLB TV. I believe you can buy a one month subscription for $7 to watch this thing.
Mike00:37:10They have a, they have like a five day free trial, five day free.
Sonny00:37:14I just do it. I just want to, I want to stop you guys there because I like, I, I, I would have rented this on VOD if I could, but I'm not signed. Not risking signing up for like a $30 a month baseball TV package.
Mike00:37:25Uh, you know, it is a hundred percent worth doing you literally sign up Sonny and cancel it immediately. And it's like, you still have access for the next seven days.
Sonny00:37:34I forget. I forget. And then like three years later, I'm like, why have I spent $500 at MLB TV this year?
JVL00:37:41It is a hundred percent worth doing just to see this thing. It is an hour 10. I think it is a perfect documentary. Uh, it, it, you know, it's very much an authorized documentary. It starts with his, his young life and then goes through his career for the Cubs and then with the Bravos and then back with the Cubs and sort of bouncing around the league in his later years. Uh, it has participation from the, uh, the other two members of the triplets, Tom Glavin and John Smoltz Chipper Jones is in it. His catcher, Eddie, Eddie Perez, Eddie Perez is in it. Barry Bonds makes the most charming cameo I have ever seen in a documentary ever. I mean, literally just like, clearly Barry came in and sat in a studio for one hour. Yes. And this guy who is a taciturn, I mean, his entire legacy is as this, this grumbly grumpy asshole who cheated and did steroids. And one of the things I never understood is that players loved Barry. Oh yeah. The players genuflected before Barry and on the outside, I never understood it. And now after watching this documentary, I get it. I'm like, oh yeah, no, I understand why everybody loves Barry Bonds. He's fucking amazing.
Mike00:39:01Well, and also the same way they love the same reason they love Greg Maddox, which is like they, I think they recognize in both of those players, the intelligence and, and I think that is such an, that's so appealing to baseball players because they, they see. Cause that intelligence is what we can talk about this, but like. Intelligence is what elevates, uh, a great athletic talent in a game like baseball to sort of God-like status. And I think that's what they say. We also, we got, we got Randy Johnson, Randy Johnson, Leo Mazzoni, professional photographer,
JVL00:39:34Randy Johnson, professional photographer, bird killer. The entire thing is more charming than you can possibly imagine. And uh, Maddox himself is a fascinating figure because he is. He is a huge contradiction. He, uh, you know, for, for a great pitcher, he does not look like a great pitcher. His stuff does not look like a great pitcher. You could watch him for one inning and if you knew nothing about baseball and nothing about him, you just saw him for an inning, you would just, you wouldn't even look twice at him. You could watch him for a single game and not think anything about him. You have to see his career in totality to truly understand how great he is. This is very different, right? If you just watched Randy Johnson pitch for an inning, you'd be like, holy shit, look at that guy's stuff. If you watch Michael Jordan for one game, you would understand, oh, that's Michael Jordan. I get it. Maddox isn't any of that. And he is at once incredibly cerebral, but also incredibly competitive, but also incredibly juvenile. Yes. And like, he's like, if Dennis, the menace was. A exceptional athlete and also incredibly intelligent, but also ultimately sweet inside, but was still Dennis, the menace. Right. And I, I just wanna, I just wanna tell two stories and I will hand it over to you because you grew up with him. Oh yeah. Oh yes. Oh yes. I did. So there are two, two stories that are in this, in this, uh, thing. The first is, um, told by Leah Mazzoni, who is the pitching coach at Atlanta. For all of Maddox's tenure there. Right. Yeah. And before. And, uh, so Maddox is at Atlanta. He is sort of at the height of his powers and we're in the middle of a meaningless game. And I think it's Tony Gonzalez. Agon is up to bat and Tony has no, it's Lou.
Mike00:41:39It's Louise.
JVL00:41:40Gonzalez is Louise. Gonzalez. Okay. Uh, he has C his career numbers against Maddox are quite good. And uh, Bobby Cox decides that he wants to walk him in this situation. So Bobby sends Mazzone out to tell Maddox to walk him. It's a Mazzone gets out there and says, yeah, you gotta walk this guy.
Mike00:41:59And Greg Maddox says, no, no, he says, he says, give me two pitches.
JVL00:42:04He says, what do you mean? No. And he says, just give me two pitches. Just give me two balls. And so he says, what do you want two balls for? And he says, I'm going to pop them out to third. I'm going to throw a, I'm going to throw a change up in the back corner. And then I'm going to hit him with the cutter and he'll pop up to third.
Mike00:42:20And she, and Chip will get them out.
JVL00:42:22And right. Right. And so they brought the guys in and, and Mazzone's like, wait, you, you want two pitches because you know that she'll be able to pop him up to third base on the second ball. And uh, and Maddox is like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so Mazzone goes, all right, well, I gotta see this. He turns around, walks back to the dugout, Maddox goes to pitch and Cox loses his fucking mind. Like what is, what is he doing? What are you? He's supposed to, you know, you didn't Mazzone, he's like, no, no, he said he's going to pop out. And son of a bitch. He pops him out to third base and chipper is recounting on the second ball as typical. He says, you know, I'm w I'm out in third and I'm, you know, floating out to pick this ball up. And I just thought to myself, can't believe the son of a bitch did it.
Mike00:43:07The best part is they go shoot to Bobby Cox. And I think as either Mazzone or Jones is saying unbelievable, they, they sync it up with footage of Bobby Cox sitting in the dugout. Saying unbelievable.
JVL00:43:20So that is, that is one side of Maddox, right? This is incredibly cerebral guy. And another side is a story from chipper Jones about how after some, you know, his early in his career, uh, after some game winning hit, they're in the showers, the communal showers and Greg Maddox comes up to him while, while they're in the showers and just starts telling him and chipper, you were great today. Am I? Chipper is just like flusting, you know, because Greg Maddox, the best picture of the game is telling him that he's, and then he knows like the rest of the room is quiet and people were laughing and chipper's like, what, what, what's going on? And it looks down and Maddox is like shining him up and peeing on him like, like I said,
Mike00:44:13it's the most juvenile. Yeah. Oh, and the best thing is whenever they go back to Maddox in, during this sequence of talking about the prank. And Maddox is like, I'm not that big of a pranker.
JVL00:44:22You know, that's like, you're like totally like, oh, so much of this stuff is just made up.
Mike00:44:27People just make up these stories. Oh, which, which interestingly, like, well, uh, let's finish JVL, but that, that is hardly the most outrageous prank that, that Maddox.
JVL00:44:38Yeah. Yeah. It's he's this amazing figure for all these ways in that, like that he is not larger than life. Right. I mean, this is what the, he's so, there's so many contradictions. Like he's the best picture of his generation, but where the best pictures of a generation typically are like the Nolan Ryan's or the, the Roger Clemens's of the world, like these giant gruff overpowering guys who are like Ryan, like he really is just this impish kid who is smarter than everybody else. Yes. He's five foot 11 or five foot 10. And uh, but he's also very competitive, but he's also, and again, like as smart as he is, he has the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy. And uh, I just, everybody in America should watch it. It's fit. It's, it's an hour 10 of your life and you will love the crap out of this thing. If you have even a passing interest in baseball, yes, Michael, uh, I totally, I, I, I agree
Mike00:45:39with you. Um, I don't think it's like a, I don't think as a documentary, it is great in the sense that it's, it is hagiography. It's like, you know, it, it, it is the last dance, uh, effect of, yeah, well, it's MLB TV, right? Made by MLB. Yes. Um, and I actually do think most of the stuff about his youth is sort of uninteresting. Um, and it's kind of a slow start to the, to the documentary. It's fine. The best, the best stuff is from, is from Greg's older brother, Mike, who's who was also a major league pitcher, um, telling the story is game worn jerseys, a Mike Maddox Jersey. Look at that. Um, and well, when he was with the Phillies or no, when he was a pitching coach with the
JVL00:46:25nationals, got it. I have a post-season Jersey from when he was a pitching coach, the nationals.
Mike00:46:31Yeah. Um, but Mike Maddox, the only, like, there's a good story in there where, where Mike talks about, I mean, he's like four or five years older than Greg about like pickup games in, in Las Vegas where they grew up, where like Mike is 15 and it's he's captain and he gets to pick the player. He said. I always pick Greg first and kids would be like, why are you picking that little squirt? Like short 10 year old kid. He's like, cause he's the best player out here. And, and like that, that was, would have been enough. Actually. I didn't really need to know all the other details.
JVL00:47:03Um, it's interesting to know about like the state championship in basketball. Yeah. Yeah. Like he was a four year letterman in basketball, even though he was five 11 and was he a point guard? Uh, he dunked. Yeah. They talked about him dunking. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's probably a shooting guard. I guess he could shoot the lights out as my bet. Yes. That is, that is my bet.
Mike00:47:24Uh, I was most interested in the technical stuff. So like I wanted to get to that.
JVL00:47:30So some of the stuff about, were you jerking it when they were doing the back and forth doing him and bonds sitting, sitting, watching the same at bat talking from either side.
Mike00:47:40To me, this was the most brilliant part of the documentary. This is the, so, so they stick Sonny, they stuck Barry bonds in a room somewhere with an iPad. They also gave Greg Maddux and iPad separate rooms, separate days, probably. Um, uh, and just had them look at three at bats and they set things up very well because the whole time we're hearing about how great Greg Maddux is, how great the best ever, and nobody can hit off him. And then it's like, but Barry bonds, Barry bonds is actually the guy and, and, and bonds has been a part of the story because there's that there was the whole interesting. What if, what if bonds had gone? To Atlanta? Atlanta. Yeah. That's the other thing. They were both free agents the same year, same year. Um, and, and it raises all these interesting questions. Um, and also I don't really buy, I don't know, they, they could have done a little more with like, why did Maddox pick Atlanta instead of the Yankees? Just what he wanted to face nationally batters still, I don't know, anyway, um, but then they bring bonds in to watch these three at bats and Maddox watches them too. And they. They, they talk about how bonds is basically the, the worst hitter from, for Maddox pitch terms of stats. Like it was, it was sort of, it was his one sort of Achilles heel was facing bonds. So they have both of them watch these three at bats and call the pitches as their, as they happened. And like, okay, so, you know, like, okay, he's going to throw this to me next, or this is what, this is probably, you know, Maddox is like, this is probably what I threw next. Cause I was trying to get him to, to, to, to reach. For this one, but he's not going to, you know, and like, and they both independently, like basically call every pitch as, as they're watching it. And some of them I'm sure maybe were, they may be Maddox actually remembered that actual at bat, uh, because he is a psycho like that, but also it's just. They understood and understand the game better than anybody and had like this, like three dimensional, um, uh, understanding of like what was going on and why a pitcher would need to pitch this and why a batter would be thinking this.
JVL00:50:01And they're talking about it from both sides. So Maddox would be saying, so in this situation, he thinks he's looking for this, but he knows that I want to do this. So I, it, I mean, there's a little bit like the, the princess bride Vizzini and you know, I can't have the IO cane. Powder from that point, because surely you would do this, but they were literally, and then it's, they would have the same thing with bonds where bonds would be like, all right, so he thinks that I'm going to do this, but I know that he knows that. And so he's going to do that. And so I'm not going to, I'm not, I'm not going to reach for that one.
Mike00:50:32Cause I know it's, yeah, it's, it was amazing. So it is amazing. And I think it's actually, it's, it's the best way to make accessible what Maddox was doing. Yes. Because they talk about it in the documentary and, uh, you know, I've done enough, like, watching Maddox and reading about Maddox to like, understand kind of what they're talking about, but the bond segment really demonstrates it in a way that is very, like I said, accessible and, and digestible. Um, so I, I love that. That was terrific. Um, the, I think, I think what comes across so well in this documentary is the way that Maddox, um, th th they, they talk about it, right. He would talk about finding outs. And I think Randy Johnson maybe mentioned this. Somebody was like finding outs. Like, what does that, what does that mean? And, you know, because what, how does, how does baseball is getting outs, right? You have to get out. So, okay. They got next guys up and we got to figure out a way to either strike him out here, pop him in, into the field, or, or can we, can we hit it? Can we have him hit into a double play and all that sort of thing. And for Maddox, it was like, it was like every batter was a puzzle and all he had to do was figure out the sequence for the puzzle and then execute that sequence to find where the out was like, you know, when the final door lifted up out of the, out of the maze. And it's like, Randy Johnson's like, look, I can throw hard. He's like, I know how to. Throw hard pitches and pitch what you did. He was, it was an incredible hall of famer and he's like, but I couldn't do that. And I, I thought was so, that was so great to hear that articulate.
JVL00:52:30So, so Randy Johnson, power pitcher would manufacture out. So he would go out and create out for a team. Yes. And what this is for, for people who are listening, who aren't like, you don't really understand or remember Maddox, he was a, the greatest ground ball pitcher of all time, right? This is what I'm saying. You would watch his stuff and his stuff didn't look spectacular. Big, you know, his, his top speed was like 92, correct? Maybe 95. If he really like put all the mustard on it. Um, but what he was doing was he was playing this dance with the strike zone where he was not only trying to, what he was really trying to do is not only trying to get people to, to take strikes or swing strikes, but he was trying to keep the ball off of the barrel of the bat. So when he's throwing to a spot, the spot is not designed just to get the, you know, the first level of it is I'm going to fool the batter and get them to either swing at something that's a ball or take a strike. Right. But, but the second level is that if he is able to get, get wood on that on ball. Yeah. I don't want it to be on the barrel, right? Cause the barrel is where you give up hits because they're able to, you know, but, and he would just create weak contact. All the time, all the fucking time. And that's why I said, you know, you watch him for, you watch him for an inning or for one game and you just like, yeah, well anybody, you know, that happens sometimes, right? Sometimes a pitcher just, you know, forces guys into weak contact that day. And he forced guys into weak contact for like 25 fucking years, which of course enabled
Mike00:54:07him to be, uh, you know, one of the greatest gold glove, uh, pitchers in the game at the time. Right. He won like, like 14, 14 gold gloves and like you. They, they do a great job of demonstrating that where he's just, I mean, he's just getting these grounders right to him and, and, and the toss him into first before the batters like even realize what's happened. I mean, it's, it's, it's so the, the documentary does such a good job of, of kind of laying this out again, like in a, in an accessible way, but also, um, uh, you're right, JBL, they, they don't make him out to be this God and, and in his interviews, he comes across as very sort of like, well, this is how I do it. Um, you know, this is, uh, this is what I had to do. This is, this is the way to pitch or this is the way I pitch. And, um, uh, that makes it very, it's not false humility either. No, it's no, it's not. It's like, it's, it's, it is, it is charming. And, um, and he comes across, uh, he comes across very well, you know, and there's like little things like, you know, he's, his wife is like, uh, his high school sweetheart, his kids seem to be like. Like really nice, well-adjusted young adults. Um, like there's a great part of the interview at the end with the kids where, um, where the daughters kind of like, like shrug off, you know, like, oh, yeah.
JVL00:55:30People find out that like, he's my dad and they're like, that must be awesome. I'm like, not really.
Mike00:55:35Have you heard, they didn't get into this. Have you heard the story about how, uh, Joey Gallo took, uh, uh, took her on a date? Uh, yes. And, uh, I'm trying to remember what the exact story is, but, uh, you take her to like the prom or something. Um, uh, oh, that's right. He pitched. That's right. He pitched a no hitter in high school and then took, took Greg Maddox's daughter out to the prom that night. Um, just like a great little, little thing. So yeah, the, the, the, the prank stuff. I love the camaraderie with, with Glavin and Smoltz. Um, the three of them together. Um, it's, it was just, it was nice to see that, like, you can tell that they all really like each other. And, um, I, I appreciated that as a, as a Braves fan who watched that 95 team win the world series and saw them kind of pitch together. It's, it does, there's no way for the documentary to do this, but just to, you know, underscore how dominant that, you know, greatest starting rotation in baseball ever maybe. Um, and amazing. And, and, and yeah, and it's, um, I was always, I was always to actually kind of more of a Glavin fan growing up, just in terms of, I liked watching, watching him pitch the best. Um, and he's the most athletic of the three of them, uh, in terms of like, he's just, he's a tall, he was a tall athletic guy. He was actually got drafted. Did you know this JBL that Glavin was drafted by the LA Kings, um, to, to, to play hockey. And he was also drafted by Atlanta.
JVL00:57:14Uh, I feel like I did know that.
Mike00:57:15Yeah.
JVL00:57:16So Sonny, you haven't gotten to talk and I, I promise I'll let you, but one, one more thing that the, the, the doc does not discuss this final aspect of it though, which is that Maddox's career is no longer possible in the current era of baseball. Correct. Um, I mean, so one of the things is that he comes of age at a point where all major league players are basically getting drafted out of high school. Uh, that is no longer the case. You are signed. If you are a Latin player from. The Caribbean, you are signed normally at like age 15 or 16 with your, you know, you're down with a club there. If you're an American player, there are a handful of guys who will get picked in the first or second round, but almost everybody else goes to college and most of the time for four years. And because what, what baseball has done is they have offloaded having to pay for and coach and train those farm system years for their, their American players to the college game, you know, because you don't go straight from, you know, with a handful of exceptions, you don't go straight from age 18 to the bigs anyway.
Mike00:58:25And so unless you're from the Dominican Republic, right.
JVL00:58:27Unless you're from the, the DR. So, uh, this is, I mean, it is unbelievably charming, you know, so he's Greg Maddox. He's going on his senior class trip during the baseball draft. And he, you know, so he like calls his calls home to his parents each night to say, did I get picked? Did I get drafted?
Mike00:58:43No, no, no. It was even better than that. It was, he was getting ready to go. This draft was starting and there was talk that he was going to be a first round pick, but he had to get on a plane like an hour, the hour after the draft started. So he gets a call, he calls into his parents and he like doesn't get drafted in the first round. So then he just hops on a plane and flies to Hawaii for his class trip.
JVL00:59:03Uh, so he, I mean that, that career is impossible as a, as a pitcher anymore. Um, because you just don't, you don't come in as an 18 year old. You don't learn the craft that way. Uh, it's, it is. It is different learning the craft at the college level. It's different because a guy with a 92 mile an hour fastball isn't going to be led anywhere near the bigs anymore. Yep. Um, the game is, is so much about power. He used to throw complete games with under a hundred pitches. Oh yeah. This doesn't happen anymore because everybody is working count. I mean, this is, you know, even the most dominant pitchers are, are trained to go deep into counts because hitters are so dangerous. You can't give them. You can't give them anything that they might touch. Yes. And, uh, and then just, you know, on wins the number of innings because guys don't go past the fifth or sixth inning anymore. Very often. I mean, it is, it is basically received wisdom that you don't let a lineup look at you a third time because again, modern hitters and, and all of the, with all of the data, all of the metrics, it's just too dangerous to let a hitter see a pitcher a third time in a game. So all of this makes it. The Greg Maddux story, like improbable to start with, but also on, you know, unduplicable unduplicatable. I don't know. Whatever the world.
Mike01:00:25It's like, it's like fantasy now. It's like this other world where, uh, the rules were different.
JVL01:00:30Yeah. Except that it was like five minutes ago. That's good. We're not talking about old Haas Radborn, right? You know, we're not like talking about, wow, back in the day, like this thing just happened. I mean, it's not true.
Sonny01:00:42To be fair, like his heyday, like 90, 91 to 95. Right. His best, his absolute.
Mike01:00:48Actually, 91 to 99. Like even after 95 years ago.
Sonny01:00:53That's 30 years ago. It's not, it's not a short time ago. It's, you know, it is, it's been, it's been, it's been a minute. And yeah, you're right. I mean, his, his, like, he was still an extremely good, like Cy Young caliber pitcher up through 2000. Right. Like, oh yeah, that, that's just, he was, he was great. I mean, I'm just looking at his baseball reference page right now. Like his 95. Season where he had an ERA of 2.26 and a whip of 0.811. Like I, I just, I look at that and I think, my God, that's the greatest fantasy season of all time for a pitcher. You know? I mean, it's like that, that's the sort of thing that you, you kill for. I like, I, he, he's great. He was, you know.
Mike01:01:36So one thing that I, they sort of touched on it a little bit, but I wanted a little more was the, the, the way that Chicago let. Maddox go in, in, in, you know, after his, his he was up in, in what was that 92, the end of the 92 season. And they just like, they just, they just said, no, like, I guess Chicago was kind of tight fisted. The, the front office was at that, at that point, you know, there wasn't, this was before Theo and all the, all that, but like, it's, it's kind of incredible. And you could even hear Maddox kind of say like, like, really, like, you're not going to give me. That's the. It's like they offered him like a three-year contract, not much money commensurate commensurate to what he was doing and what everybody was saying. So that was just fascinating for me, but you get the sense, you know, he has a young Scott Boris client funny.
Sonny01:02:31Yes. Oh yeah.
Mike01:02:32They got a shot of Scott in the, uh, in the, in the, in the stands there. Um, I don't know. I, I loved it. Um, it was, it was good. Sonny. I don't know any, any questions about, about the dog.
Sonny01:02:44No, I, I, I always, I mean, I remember. I watched those guys a lot because I lived in Florida and then Virginia around this time. So we, and you know, I'll also, the Braves are on TBS. So like, uh, you know, the Braves are on TBS, the Cubs are on WGN. So I like, I, I saw a fair amount of Maddox over the years. I love it. And it's funny because you, you know, you mentioned liking to watch Glavin more and I, that's, was also my recollection kind of like, yes, Maddox is like obviously the better pitcher, but Glavin was definitely more of a traditional.
Guest01:03:15Yeah.
Sonny01:03:16Uh, guy, I, uh, the, I don't know. I don't, I, did they, did they do, did they do 10 minutes on chicks? Dig the long ball? No.
Mike01:03:23So this was the big, this was the big like missing part of it. Uh, which was the, which is the greatest, uh, Nike commercial sports related commercial of all time. This, uh, which I was telling my wife about it and she hadn't seen it. So we had to watch it of course. And it's like, it's so good. And it, and it really does play into like everything JVL that you were describing about Maddox, right? About the, like the playfulness and the juvenile, you know, uh, sort of juvenile sense of humor, but also the, the competitiveness. So anybody haven't seen it go on YouTube, it's essentially, uh, it's, it's, it's also fascinating because it's like the other star besides Galavina Maddox of the ad is, is Mark McGuire. And like, who, who would you rather, who would you rather be? Whose legacy would you rather have? Uh, those guys or, or McGuire's at this point, but this is like what, 98, I guess around the big home run race. It's chicks to the long ball is such, it's so perfect.
JVL01:04:18Great ad. Do you guys remember when they converted Smoltzy to a closer? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He was such a great closer. He was so dominant.
Sonny01:04:26Is Smoltz in the hall of fame?
Mike01:04:27Yes. Okay. So he is. All three of them are, right? All three of them are. But, but he was a year, his, his rookie year was the year after Glavin and Maddox who were the same year.
JVL01:04:38Gotcha.
Mike01:04:38And so he was not, and he had also stuck around longer. So he was not eligible. Yeah, he played later than both of them. Right. He was not eligible for the. For the hall until the next year.
Sonny01:04:47Because he, I mean, he was, I, like he had, he had a great two-part career and I, like I would sometimes get into fights with, or argument, you know, friendly, friendly arguments with, with guys who would be like, well, you know, he was good, but he was clearly the least of those three and blah, blah. And like, okay, fine. He's still like, he was still a, you know, top of the staff starting pitcher and like the best closer in the game for four or five years. I mean, he was like, those were like crazy dominant. Closer years.
Mike01:05:17And, and he talks about this. This is another guy. I mean, Smoltz gets, Smoltz gets a bad rap these days. People say he's, he, there's too much like old man yells at cloud about his like commentary on, on games and, and, and stuff. Um, and you know, that he's too, you know, he keeps hitting the same point, but the problem with those critics of Smoltz is that Smoltz is right. He's right. That they're, they're training pitchers to throw too hard, too. Young before, uh, before they're, they are actually physically fully developed. And, um, his, what he's lamenting is JVL. What you were describing is like a, a, a baseball that can no longer be played. He's lamenting that because it was better. I think, I mean, I, I think it was more fun to watch and maybe that's just cause I was a kid and I had, I was a fan of a great team, but like that kind of baseball was so much more fun. And, uh,
JVL01:06:15The problem as much as anything else.
Mike01:06:16Yeah. So the data too.
JVL01:06:18Yeah. The data, the data. I mean, this is, we could do five hours on this, but my a there's the, they in this, it's like arguing against the culture. Like, I mean, the correct, like you can't not, as I say, as a kid, who's a pitcher, like you, this is the way all of it is. And there is no alternative path. Uh, but B, I believe that the root of all of this is the existence of data, which is like, you know, the, the Apple. From the tree of knowledge. And once that is there, it changes everything about hitting and then pitch construction.
Mike01:06:55And I mean, I think, uh, yes, I take your point JVL, but I think the, I think this is not to sound like John Smoltz here, but I think this is like the end of baseball in the sense that like, it's, it's, it is. He was saying this just the other day, I think on Buster only. He's podcast, uh, that like, if you don't protect your pitchers, like you don't have a, you don't have a game anymore. And I think that is, he was sort of outlaw all data collection in major league park,
JVL01:07:28except for, uh, the radar gun for real. I'm with you for real. I just wouldn't let them collect the video and like anything else you guys want to do video of your own players and your practice sessions go right ahead, but you don't get to create books on everybody else. And, uh, you don't like all the Amazon webcast that like revolve that shit because once it exists, it changes the way it's like the Heisenberg principle, right? You can't like total stuff and have it be the same thing.
Mike01:07:58And, and, and it, it makes baseball into a science instead of what, what Maddox was really doing was, was kind of art. I mean, it was, it was, it was art when he was, what he was doing and he was doing it in his mind. And he was, I said, it was like a puzzle and that's kind of what it was. It was not, it was not this like zeros and ones that, that's my old man, the spreadsheet
JVL01:08:20and a painting. Yes, exactly.
Mike01:08:23All right. Uh, any other thoughts on, I can't believe we went so long, but it was very indulgent.
JVL01:08:31Very indulgent. Please, if you're listening to this and you are even like 10% interested, just spend the $5 or the do the free sign up. It's a free sign up and they cancel. It's an hour and you'll love it. We're talking to Sonny here, really.
Sonny01:08:44I'm not going to do Sonny. I'll give you my login on VOD. I will watch it on ESPN. If I give you my login stuff, that's, that's, that's piracy.
Mike01:08:54All right. That's all the time we're giving to this episode. Join us over at sub beacon.com and we will talk to you next time. Uh, yeah, the, the Eddie Perez, uh, I love to sing Eddie Perez, by the way. He was great. And, and the, so the, the whole sequence where the, where Eddie's like, he called his own pitches. Um, like then, like that was the sort of thing where like some, a mystery from my childhood, like clicked in and it was like, cause I was always like, why is, cause Javi Lopez was the starting catcher for most of the Braves during that time. But of course they had a second, but with Maddox, it was always Eddie. And I was, I would always ask, like, I asked my dad, like, why is Eddie? Why does, why does, why does Javi never catch for, for Maddox? And I think my dad's answer was, I don't know. Um, but like, but like now I know, and like that, that was brilliant. Oh, it was awesome. Um, and by the way, Eddie Perez is, uh, is different than, uh, the, the player who became known as perimeter Perez. That was Pasquale Perez, um, who for a time played for the Braves during, during the lean years, I think in the eighties. Um. And he famously got, he was, he missed a Braves game because he got on I-285, which is known as the perimeter, the, the, the loop highway in Atlanta and couldn't get off. So he became known as perimeter Perez, not the great Eddie Perez, Pasquale Perez.
JVL01:10:33Sure, it's fine. Um.
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