#262. Quiet on Set (Max)
Listen to this episode ↗on Substack, where the show lives now
With Sonny "on assignment," Mike and JVL carry the show alone to dig into the Max docuseries Quiet on Set: The Dark Side of Kids TV, and both come away rattled. JVL, who never had cable growing up and expected a fun Blackberry-style corporate-nostalgia romp about Nickelodeon's rise, instead found a horror story: writer Brian Peck showing a 14-year-old cast member a clown painting autographed by pen pal John Wayne Gacy, and impresario Dan Schneider running a set with legally-mandated-but-ignored labor rules, glory-hole sketches aimed at ten-year-olds, and — per JVL's real thesis — a corporate-governance culture (illegally split writer salaries, Paramount lawyers clearing parents from the room to quietly tell child actors that Peck "won't be around anymore") so lax it let two convicted pedophiles work on Schneider's productions. Mike, who snuck in a third episode to JVL's two, traces his own Nickelodeon fandom (Kenan & Kel, The Adventures of Pete & Pete) and explains he mostly aged out before the worst Schneider-era material, including the deeply unsettling early Amanda Bynes standup and Kids' Choice footage that both hosts flag as sexualized far too young; he goes back and forth on whether the series is fair to conflate ordinary workplace/labor abuse with outright criminal predation, while JVL insists the two are causally linked. Both agree the takeaway is grim enough that they're not sure they can recommend anyone actually watch it. The first third is pure banter: an extended Olympics check-in (Mike is obsessed with every obscure sport down to team archery and speed skating, JVL is watching mostly through his kids and gushing over surfing at Teahupo'o), a long dead-reckoning of the 1996 Dream Team roster, JVL's confession that he's spent months mentally mispronouncing "Megan Thee Stallion" as "Megan Three Stallion," bewildered commentary on skimpy new Olympic swimwear trends, summer-break parenting gripes, and a quick, Sonny-less skip of Deadpool & Wolverine box office talk (a monster $211 million opening) in favor of waiting for the full trio.
From the show notes
With Sonny off on assignment, Mike and JVL sat down to talk about the Max docuseries Quiet on Set. It's about the beloved Nickelodeon shows of your youth. This is not a fun ride!
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00- These are three predators who worked at Nickelodeon, all in a short amount of time.
JVL00:00:05- All right guys, we're ready for you.
Guest00:00:07- It was a toxic environment. It made me trust people less. - We were there for so many hours. You get comfortable with people until you're not.
Mike00:00:21- Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast. I am your co-host, Mike Warren. Joining me is my one co-host, who I'm guessing was not a Nickelodeon fan growing up. Did Nickelodeon even exist?
JVL00:00:37Jonathan V. Last. - Dagger, dagger. Nickelodeon existed, but it didn't exist in my world because we didn't have cable in my house. I did not get cable until I was 22 years old.
Mike00:00:50- Wow, well, a lot to unpack. - We'll talk about that. - A lot to unpack with all of that and all of our experience with Nickelodeon. Sonny Bunch is on assignment, so it is another one and two, me and you JVL. Join us over at subbeacon.com. You can become a patron, tell your friends and family. You can only listen to the Sub-Beacon if you are a patron and that's at subbeacon.com. Come and join the conversation in the comments. And it's always a lively time at subbeacon.com. We're gonna be talking about "Quiet On Set" later in the show, but first let's check in. JVL, how are you, my man? - Are you an Olympic family? - It's interesting you say that. My kids have been watching the Olympics all week. So I had like, in my lone sort of let politics infiltrate my regular life sort of indulgence, I banned us from watching the ones that were in China a few years ago. And just out of my own self-righteous anger about China and the way, but I'm generally pro-Olympic and my kids are watching it. I'm not watching it, but my kids are watching it while they're home from school this summer. So that's my answer to your question.
JVL00:02:16How about you guys? - So we are a full-born Olympic family every time. It's so into it, so into it. All of the obscure sports, because for me, the juice is the stakes, right? I will watch, and I'm like Kramer in that episode where he's betting on planes landing in JFK. If there are stakes for the people involved in the competition and they're big stakes for the people involved, then I am all over it. Absolutely all over it. And so we're watching team archery. - Oh yeah. - And I care because these, these two teams who are doing this work, these people have spent, I don't know, a seventh of their lives preparing for this one 45 minutes. - For this moment, yes. - I, and that's, it's human drama.
Mike00:03:08- Mm-hmm.
JVL00:03:09- And, and I, I just, I'll watch all of it. - What is your- - The surfing has been amazing. - Which is in Tahiti, interestingly.
Mike00:03:16I love that. - In Tahiti. - I love that detail. - French Polynesia.
JVL00:03:18- Right, yeah. - You know, French Colonialism has its, has its upsides. - Well, it's amazing though, 'cause it is, so it's at Chupu. And that is one of the great breaks in the entire world. - Ah. - And so there have been just some unbelievable waves and rides there. It's been wild.
Mike00:03:39- What is your favorite sport to have, to watch this, this Olympics? There's always like new sports and some sports leave. So this Olympics, what have you enjoyed watching the most?
JVL00:03:50- Well, we're only a few days into it. - Right. - But I, you know, so far I have really enjoyed the surfing, the rhythms, of watching a surfing competition are just fabulous. It's 30 minutes, like the 30 minute heats. - Right. - And you got these guys and girls catching these amazing waves. And when they're not catching waves, you're just like floating on the water with them, right? The beautiful, it's just, it's a peaceful, it's really, that is a fun way to spend 30 minutes. Big, big fan of the surfing. - Question. - Yes.
Mike00:04:22- Which is your least favorite Olympic sport this summer to be watching? What has not wowed you?
JVL00:04:30- You know, I don't love watching crew. Maybe 'cause I really like the gymnastics. Love watching the gymnastics.
Mike00:04:40- How about, what's his name on the pommel horse? He's the nerdy kid who-- - The new Peter Parker? - Yeah, exactly. He's like a superstar.
JVL00:04:50- So here's the, I really enjoy the crap out of the US men's gymnastics team because they, they act like a baseball team. You know, like these guys are, they're shouting each other during routines and-- - Yeah, they're bros.
Mike00:05:06- These guys are such bros and they're just jacked
JVL00:05:10and pumped and they're like good time bros. You see them, they were rotating with the Italians during the team final and these guys are such bros. The Italians weren't really in contention. The Italians have like come off of an apparatus having done well. Like the US bros would be like, "Yeah, Giovanni, go!"
Mike00:05:31We're just, they've got this Asian kid from Stanford, Asher Hong, I think is the name.
JVL00:05:38This guy was just like, he was born, he might as well have been Ray Lewis. He was so into everything and it was like, I just-- - Oh, in that way, got it, got it, got it. - In that way. No, you remember Ray Lewis with his sermons before things.
Mike00:05:53- Of course, of course, yeah, yeah.
JVL00:05:54- And I just thought, man, this is great. I do have one question. - Sure. - Watching some of the swimming events
Mike00:06:04with the female swimmers. - Like Katie Ledecky and company.
JVL00:06:08- No, so this is why, I'm sorry. Some of the pool events with people who aren't swimmers. So specifically diving and like water polo. - Okay. - The swimmers are wearing like swimming racing suits. - Sure. - Which everybody understands. But there seems to be for the other aquatic sports, they're wearing these suits that like go right up their asses. And I, what worries me here is that maybe this is just how everything is anymore. And I don't even know because I'm an old man. Or maybe this is just new-ish for people who are doing like really competitive aquatics because it's more streamlined or something. All I know is it made me feel old and because it was new to me because like nobody even mentioned it. And not all the countries are using these, but I would say like 90% of the country's doing aquatics.
Mike00:07:05- You're saying there's a little more thong action going on
JVL00:07:08than in the past. - It's like a normal one piece, but then like 40% thong in the back or 30% thong in the back.
Mike00:07:18It looks uncomfortable as shit. - So I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe this is, I will say this and somebody will say, no, no, no. There is like some athletic related reason for this, but I think this is simply style, right? Like this is what like bathing suits are like. - That's what I was afraid of. - This is what bathing suits are for. - That's what I was afraid of.
JVL00:07:45But I don't know, like I go to our little community pool and I don't feel like the other--
Mike00:07:51- You're not gonna see it there.
JVL00:07:52- Parents and kids aren't wearing those. - You're not gonna see it there.
Mike00:07:56- But I'll be at the beach next week. - Oh, so will I, so. - Maybe. - Hey, you know what? I'll be at the beach next week. You'll be at the beach next week. Let's do a report.
JVL00:08:04- This is what worries me. I'm worried that we're gonna get there and that's actually gonna be what everybody wears and I'm gonna just be like, oh, this entire cultural trend happened without me. This happened today. We were talking about the Kamala Harris rally in Atlanta. - Which I was at. I was reporting it. - My colleague talked about, you know, it was a great performance by Megan Thee Stallion. - Mm-hmm. - And I said, Megan Thee Stallion? I said, do you mean Megan Three Stallion? - Oh, JVL. - I said, no, her name is Megan Thee Stallion. So I don't know who or what Megan Thee Stallion is. All I know is that over the course of the last six months, whenever I have read her name, my eyes, like the retina to medulla oblongata connection has turned thee into three, I guess to try to make sense of why somebody would make it. But also because it just sounds kind of bad-ass Megan Three Stallion. She sounds like she is like the leader of a warrior tribe of native Americans.
Mike00:09:03- No, Megan Thee Stallion. - Megan Thee Stallion has much more of a, you don't think Megan Thee Stallion. I mean, that's like, it's like a exclamation point at the end of that. Look, whatever we say here, we're just going to sound old and out of touch. - That's what it is. I felt so old.
JVL00:09:19- Well, no, it's- - So old, I feel that way about the bathing suits. I'm not saying I don't like them. Like, hey, it's great. I'm not complaining about, I've not reached that level of old where I, oh, can you believe these bathing suits these girls are wearing? - In my day. - I just, I don't like being surprised by cultural trends that I had no idea existed because that makes me feel old and close to the death. Well, that's all. I just don't want to be surprised by it.
Mike00:09:41- I hate to, I hate to let you down JVL, but there's going to be, there's going to be a lot more of that. - Tell me what, what are your favorite and least favorite Olympics? - So, so I think, so first, before I answer that, like, everything that I consume Olympics wise is seen through the prism of my experience in 1996 of being, of growing up in Atlanta and being in Atlanta for the, exactly for the, as we all call them now, the Centennial Olympics, the, the, you know, 100th anniversary of the original, not the original, you know, the modern Olympic games. And just the experience and excitement. So like when I got to go to two events, - That's awesome. - Yeah, it was great. It was like such a terrific experience. One of them was, I went to women's softball, I believe it was Mexico and Japan we played. And then I saw men's basketball. I saw Germany and Australia, perhaps I could get, I had that wrong.
JVL00:10:54- You did not yet have, - You did not have Dirk Nowitzki, right?
Mike00:10:58- No, no, no, no, no.
JVL00:10:59- This is like eight years pre Nowitzki.
Mike00:11:01- Correct, correct, correct. So this is, so it's post dream team. So there's no, I mean, it's that 96 dream team, which wasn't really, I mean, it was, it just wasn't the same. By the way, I got to educate my older boys about the dream team. And my wife was very impressed that I was able to name every single person on the dream team, except can you guess who I forgot?
JVL00:11:25- You forgot all of them?
Mike00:11:26- But I forgot one, I forgot one. Can you guess which one?
JVL00:11:29- You forgot Graham Hill.
Mike00:11:30- No, Graham Hill wasn't on that. It wasn't on the original.
JVL00:11:32- I thought he was the lone college player on that team.
Mike00:11:33- No, that was Christian Laettner. - Oh, it was Laettner.
JVL00:11:36- Oh yeah, oh yeah, baby. - Wow, I don't know. I could not name even six of them. - All right, let me see if I can do it now. - I go Bird, Jordan, Magic, Barkley. And after that, I would just be fumbling around and guessing. - AJ, Chris Mullen.
Mike00:11:57- So Chris Mullen was who I forgot.
JVL00:11:59- Oh really, okay.
Mike00:12:00- Yes, I forgot Chris Mullen. It was, hold on, oh, Patrick Ewing.
JVL00:12:07- Oh, yeah, obviously, right.
Mike00:12:10- David Robinson. - The Admiral. - The Admiral, indeed.
JVL00:12:16- Noah Hakeem Olajuwon, right?
Mike00:12:17- Noah Hakeem and Noah Isaiah Thomas, as we learned from the MJ documentary. Clyde Drexler. And, oh, Carl Malone and John Stockton. - Oh, right, obviously, yeah. - And I think that's it. I'm probably missing one or two, but-- - Fucking Christian Laidner. - Yeah, and Christian Laidner, of course. Yeah, no, it's like, oh, a boy among men, if there ever was one. - And a D-bag among men. - Well, that, needless to say. Anyway, but I, so I, in terms of what I like to watch now, I mean, I'm similar with you. I like the sports that you just never get to see, like the competitive shooting. Have you seen the way, like with these pistols? Like the guy from Turkey who I think won the silver medal, so he doesn't wear, like the others, any protective gear. He comes with no gear whatsoever. He's like dressed in like a polo shirt and with like old man glasses. He looks like, like a gangster from a Guy Ritchie movie. Like, and then they all stand there and they have like a hand in the pocket. - We call him the tech. - Yeah, exactly, they call him the tech. And so, and then they like stand there and like shoot, and they look so casual. And I know there's like a technique and all of that, but it's so weird and I just love that. I really, you know, I feel like the Winter Olympics get a bad rap, I really like speed skating. Like it's, it's so unnerving to me to, cause like, like the idea of like these guys skating that fast with like on the ice track.
JVL00:14:10- Short track speed skating.
Mike00:14:11- Yeah, I mean.
JVL00:14:12- It's fun, roller derby.
Mike00:14:14- Exactly, it's exactly a roller derby. And it's like, I like it because I'm like, what's, what's going to happen? Like, like who's going to like wipe out and same way with like the luge and the skate. - Skeleton and the, and the, and the bobsled. Like, like all of those where it's like you're going fast, there's blades and ice and it's just dangerous. And that's pretty cool. But going back to the summer, like I love, I do love the swimming. Like it's just, it, like, it's so, it's so great. - Swimming's great.
JVL00:14:44- Swimming's great. - Swimming's great in track. - Yeah. - Especially middle distance, right? Watching guys in like a 400 and 800. Oh, that stuff's, there's a lot of human drama
Mike00:14:54in the 400 and the 800. Anyway, well, good, good. - How are you? What's going on, buddy? - Oh, you know, so it's before I had kids and even when I had kids, but was what they were not, you know, old enough to where my kids are now. I remember JVL hearing from you just how awful summer can be. - I mean, that probably wasn't me. - Definitely not you. That was somebody else. - Probably Vic had talked about that all the time. Not me. - Yeah, definitely not you JVL. Somebody did. Somebody put this little idea in my head. - Who could say? - And now I understand.
JVL00:15:38- Right? - Now I understand. - It's the baton death march. - Well, it's the - You find yourself, you're like, I can do 12 weeks. I can make, it's only 12 weeks. It seems like it's a year and a half, but I can do it.
Mike00:15:50- We're more than halfway through. We're more than halfway through. It's just the, it's, it's, so our kids had a great system. My wife came up with a fantastic system where, so the, the, the toddler goes to an in-home sitter throughout, throughout the year anyway. So he's taken care of. The bigger kids, what she had was she had them going to tennis lessons, the six-year-old at, at 8:00 AM. And, or sorry, the six-year-old at 9:00 AM. The almost 10-year-old at, at 10:00 AM. And the, the tennis courts are right next to the pool. And so she would take them, they would do their thing. There'd usually be another kid to play with or to run around or a basketball court or something to do while the other brother was in their lesson. And then they'd go next door to the pool and nobody was at the pool and during the weekday, everybody's working. So it's very empty. Um, she would work, there's great wifi at the pool. She would work outside, the kids would swim around and that would be like, that would last until like 1:00, 1:30 in the afternoon. Great. - You get a good four or five hours out of that shit. - Totally. - Yeah. - Um, so tennis lessons ended late last week and it's only been a few days without that five and, and I mean, I, I'm complaining, but it's not really me, right? I'm going into an office or I've been traveling for work and different things. Um, so a lot of this is on, uh, my wonderful, uh, wife, alluring wife. But when I get home and it's just like, it's the, they, they have been at each other's throats and yet they're also like getting along better than they ever have. Like they're getting along worse and better than they ever have. And it's like, it's like they have some secret uncertainty and unspoken way of deciding which it's going to be at any given time. And you know, so like maybe it's when the toddler's trying to go down for, for the night and they are decided we're going to be really silly and run up and down the stairs and, and turn on Alexa and make her play songs at a loud volume. And sometimes it's, you know, dinnertime and they're yelling at each other about who's supposed to be doing what to get ready for dinner. And he didn't wash his hands. And yes, I did. And he said he wasn't going to do it. And it's like, it's the children were meant to be in school. That's all I have. Year round compulsory.
JVL00:18:38100%.
Mike00:18:38Boarding school. 100%. Oh my gosh. Anyway, but I, but it's, it's, it's, we're getting to the end of summer. I told, as I mentioned earlier, we're going to the beach for a week. We're going to have a great time and it's, we all need it, but like, I think we, I think we need more school and less summer vacation.
JVL00:19:04Right. Yeah.
Mike00:19:05More than 180 days. Yes.
JVL00:19:07I mean, I wouldn't mind like a four week summer break. Four weeks sounds perfect. I could get through four weeks. Four weeks. I can do four weeks standing on my head. Exactly. Four weeks is nothing.
Mike00:19:17Anyway. So that's, what's been going on in my neck of the woods. Should we, should we do any box office?
JVL00:19:24What happened? Was, was this the Wolverine Deadpool weekend? Yes.
Mike00:19:29No, no, no. That was this weekend because Sonny's not here. And for many other reasons, people are in and out. We're not doing Deadpool and Wolverine. We're going to wait till we're all together. Exactly.
JVL00:19:38How did it do?
Mike00:19:40It did pretty well. I got to say. Number one at the box office, $211 million and it's opening weekend. Is that a lot of money? Good Lord. Is that a lot of money? For an R-rated movie. For an R-rated movie. Yeah. Deadpool and Wolverine. Somebody, a listener texted me to say that Deadpool versus Wolverine would be a more appropriate title for the movie. But we'll talk about that when we, when we get to the, to watch the movie.
JVL00:20:07Michael and I, Michael and I, Sonny and I have said this, Michael, on the show, and I'm not sure if you quite clocked it, but this is, this is what Marvel comic books did in the 1990s as the industry was falling apart and they were hurtling toward bankruptcy.
Mike00:20:22Yes. So the comic book bubble. I did not zone out when you guys mentioned that on the show.
JVL00:20:25Yeah, I just wasn't sure if you sort of understood the context of it. And it was literally the case where you would go into your local comic book shop, as I did at that age, and half of the wall of new releases every week would be some form of Daredevil or Wolverine. They just, everything.
Mike00:20:45So, like, matching up with others or just on their own.
JVL00:20:49X-Men and Wolverine. Wolverine and the Avengers. Deadpool and the Avengers. Deadpool and the Avengers. I mean, just. Every fucking cover. And it was clearly the last gasp of a creatively exhausted studio. Right. That had bloated and expanded into ways which were absolutely not sustainable, either artistically or economically.
Mike00:21:11There's no parallel.
JVL00:21:14I'm just saying.
Mike00:21:15That's just coincidental, right? Just pointing that out.
JVL00:21:18Okay. Okay.
Mike00:21:18Yeah. You're just mentioning that has nothing to do with what we're talking about with the movies in 2024. Got it.
JVL00:21:24Okay. Right. To see this on the heels of the phase that was Shang-Chi, The Eternals, what were the other nonsense?
Mike00:21:35Captain Marvel 2. Marvels. That's what it was called. Marvels. Like all of these. Ant-Man and the Wasp, Quantumania.
JVL00:21:43Yes. Quantumania. These dog shit movies with terrible characters that nobody cares about in ways which are cookie cutter assembly line. I couldn't, couldn't happen to a nicer studio. Yeah. We need to destroy Marvel in order to save Marvel.
Mike00:22:02Oh, thank you, Hank Paulson. Interestingly, I want to, I want to actually go down to number two on the box office list. Twisters, which we talked about last week, down almost 57%, just 30, just under $35 million in its second week. It's still clocking in $154 million total growth. That's, that seems like a significant drop. No?
JVL00:22:28Yeah. I mean, it is and it isn't. It's in the old days, we would have said, geez, 56%, right? But I think the new days in the way have how wide things open. Anything that's under 60% drop on the first week for a mega tentpole like flick like this is probably okay. Okay. Okay. Good. Good. That would be terrible for a family movie.
Mike00:22:50Yes. Okay. I see what you're saying.
JVL00:22:52If Moana 2 drops 57%, people will... People will be, you know, opening their veins. Got it. Okay.
Mike00:22:59Well, we shall see when Moana 2 comes out. Among the many... I feel like I've seen so many more... Maybe I mentioned this in a recent week. I've seen so many more kids movie trailers that I normally do, which suggests to me that maybe they're getting it, that actually the kids movies are where the money's at and... There's so much money there.
JVL00:23:21Yeah.
Mike00:23:21But of course...
JVL00:23:21They're just leaving it on the table. It is left on the table. But you can't saturate the market. Because if you saturate the market... Fair enough. Then you blow it right... This is the problem, right? You want like a reasonable conveyor line of product. Not just... Right? Like what was it? Migration, right? Migration, yeah. Garbage. The endless string of garbage cash grab animation that is not...
Mike00:23:47But I don't think we're at that point yet. Because like while I agree with you that migration was... I wouldn't even call it garbage. It was just like nothing. It was a nothing movie. It was not terrible. It was not good. It was just there. That like... That's fine because like my kids still talk about that movie to this day. Like, oh, remember when we saw Migration? And like that's all that really matters. They still talk about the Despicable Me 4, which we recently saw. And so I just don't think we're there. Like, when it gets to the point where like the kids movies are coming out so often, it's a little different. But like as like the Marvel, you know, the Marvel superhero movies, yes, then I agree. But like just give us some. Like just give us some more. So we got Moana 2. What is it? The Wild Robot?
JVL00:24:44The Wild Robot.
Mike00:24:46It looks awful, right? It looks terrible.
JVL00:24:49Another one of these movies that is designed to make parents cry. Fuck you, animated filmmakers. It's not a Pixar. Well, it's a what made Pixar special was that they emotionally manipulated parents. So we'll just do that, too. No, pass.
Mike00:25:07No, sir. All right. Any other box office thoughts before?
JVL00:25:11No.
Mike00:25:12All right. Well, this week we are talking about a documentary. And I have to admit, when JVL and I decided to do this, I thought it was one documentary movie. Turns out it's a series. I've watched. Actually, I lied to you, JVL. I watched three episodes, not two. So I got a little edge on you. I'll try not to spoil it for you. Bad stuff happened. But the same.
JVL00:25:37I watched the third one.
Mike00:25:38Oh, you watch the third one, too. But the but the the series Quiet Onset. We're getting to it a little bit later. They came out last year or earlier this year. But it is you can watch it on Max Quiet Onset. The Dark Side of Kids TV. It's the subtitle. And I don't know. Should I? I'm not good at these big boy reviews. JVL, you want to tell us, like, give us an overview of what this series is about.
JVL00:26:05Quiet on the set. The Dark Side of Kids TV is a documentary series. And unlike Michael Warren, I was two times confused by this because, A, I did not realize it was a series. I thought it was a standalone documentary. And B, I thought it was about hijinks. And sort of, I thought this was going to be like the Blackberry of Nickelodeon or something like that. I went into this expecting a sort of wickedly funny movie about the machinations of the people who were behind Nickelodeon's rise. I thought it would be a brand movie. That's not what this is. No, sir. No, sir. That is not what this is. This is a movie about an unbelievably toxic environment in which I will simply say this. There is a scene in the movie where a number of people from one of these Nickelodeon shows, I think it was All That maybe. I don't know what the fucking names of these shows are. I never had Nickelodeon. They all bleed together to me, but they were all having a big party slash barbecue at the house of one of the not cast members. One of the like a P.A. Basically, no, no. One of the always not. He's he's a dialogue coach and he's an on air character. And but one of the adult cast members, whose name is Brian Peck. And this gentleman lives alone. And, you know, the whole the crew is there. The producer. The producers and the director are there. The kids are there with their parents.
Mike00:27:58Parents are there. Yeah.
JVL00:27:59And one of the kids who's 14 is poking around this guy's house and he finds a room in which everything is Planet of the Apes. And that's kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah. And posters. Yeah. And this gentleman, Brian Peck, wanders into the room with this this young man. And the young man says, what is this other? Because in the middle of all of this. This old room dedicated to Planet of the Apes is a painting of a of a clown. And this kid says, what's the story with that, though? And this gentleman, Brian Peck, says, oh, let me show you that. That was painted by John Wayne Gacy. Do you know who he is?
Mike00:28:43And and not just painted JVL signed to autographed to Mr.
JVL00:28:50Brian Peck, who then explains to this this young man. That he child, he's pen pals and buddies with John Wayne Gacy, a convicted serial killer who, among other things, sexually assaulted and abused before killing young boys. While dressed as a guy is like, yeah, yeah, let me show this to you. That is the level of fucked up in this thing. Oh, yeah. And again, I was expecting the Blackberry movie.
Mike00:29:21I'm sorry.
JVL00:29:22I got this instead. Holy shit. I tell you, tell you this. Yeah. I come out of this with a lot of things. And we can talk more seriously that the major figures in this are this guy, Brian Peck, and this other guy, Dan Schneider. Dan Schneider is an actor who, if you're of my age, you might remember from Head of the Class. He was like the fat guy on Head of the Class and the Meathead. He became a screenwriter and producer at Nickelodeon. And he was basically their Nickelodeon's Lorne Michaels. Yeah. He was an impresario. He was an impresario. He was like, I got an idea for this show. I got an idea for that show. And he would show run these things. And he, I don't know, six or seven, like, very successful, long-running Nickelodeon properties. He seems to be an abusive asshole in ways that are not criminal, but are merely unethical and enough to get you. Fired and canceled, but not sent to jail. Right.
Mike00:30:28Just this side. Just this side. I mean, it's this close. It's like, yeah, it's like. It's this close.
JVL00:30:35But in addition to that, he had on the set of his show, not one, but two, two pedophiles. Yeah.
Mike00:30:44That we know. He had adults working for him. Two people who wound up in jail for sexually assaulting minors.
JVL00:30:53And I, you know. I, you will never be a bigger believer in unions than watching something like this, because you see the, you know, Hollywood is a highly unionized system with guilds and very regimented rules about workplace, you know, hours and conduct, especially when it comes to kids.
Guest00:31:18Yep.
JVL00:31:19And you see in this that even with all those protections in place in the actual real world, of how TV shows are shot and made and how the product is put together, those rules get thrown out the door all the time. All the time. As one of the kids says, you know, they would come to us and be like, oh, yeah, hey, did you have time to stay for another hour or two? And unspoken is, you know, you as a child actor, you know that you're not supposed to by law stay for another two hours because you're capped at like six hours or whatever. But if you don't say yes, your contract won't be renewed. You know, and that's anyway, there's there's a lot of to talk about with like the economic violence and and the weird sexual fetishes of Dan Schneider, who, again, is not criminal, but like inserting glory hole sketches into a sketch show that ostensibly for like 10
Mike00:32:25to 13 year old children to watch lots of, you know, jokes that involve, you know, phallic shaped things and references to, you know, pornography.
JVL00:32:36I mean, it's bad. Yeah, it's really I mean, Michael, what was your level of freaked out by all this? So and are you first, I guess, set the table for me. What is your cultural relationship to Nickelodeon?
Mike00:32:52So this is interesting. So basically. The introductory part of episode one that kind of built up to the Dan Schneider era of Nickelodeon, what was my experience with Nickelodeon? So once once the events that's that kind of really start to demonstrate Dan Schneider's toxic influence on the network, on the kids, on all that is coincidentally is like the time that I tap out, I sort of age out and lose interest. So, for instance, all of the you know, I think they show kind of a montage of cartoons like Ren and Doug and Ren and Stimpy, which, of course, I was never allowed to watch Ren and Stimpy. That was because that was gross and weird and sort of and I'll get to that sort of like why why I think I aged out of Nickelodeon even maybe earlier than I than I than I would have normally or that most kids might have. The sort of very by the standards of what these the shows that the series focuses on very tame live action tween. They didn't call them that, but like tween to young teenagers sitcoms. Clarissa explains it all. I'm sorry. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. So I Carly is later. This is basically shows that ran from roughly like 1991 to 1998. Um, the, you know, uh, so the first iteration of all that, the one that Kenan Thompson starred in, which Dan Schneider was involved in and the spinoff sitcom, Kenan and Kel, like Kenan and Kel was sort of the last, you know, new show that I watched and it was geared toward a little older kids. Uh, it was sitcom me and Dan Schneider was involved in that. But as far as I can tell, there seems to be nothing involving that. Stuff. It's really when Amanda Bynes gets her own show. And by that point, the Amanda Bynes show, I did not watch. It was, I was, it was uninterested in it. It was, it was like, it was too much. I didn't like her. I thought she was too much. Totally, totally. But, um, but all the other stuff. So, so that was my relationship to Nickelodeon and, um, we watched it and we enjoyed it. And it was, there was gross stuff that my parents didn't like and all that stuff. But, um. And there was, and they, they hinted this a little bit. There's a little bit in Nickelodeon's DNA of like, um, parents are idiots. Kids rule. That, that is a huge part of Nickelodeon's DNA. And, and that was definitely something that I can see now. And I even could see that. What I picked up on, there, there was a sort of, there was something in, in the kind of the gross and the grotesque that Nickelodeon really leaned into. Um, the slime, the slime. Yeah. By the way, my wife, uh, when they were little, they went to, uh, Nickelodeon studios in Orlando, Florida. Uh, and she got slimed. She got picked to be slimed. And, um, it's basically like green food colored, uh, dyed, uh, applesauce is what it is. Um, oh, oh, and all the, all the game shows too, you know, like they had Mark Summers in the, in the very first episode. I don't quite know why they had him in there.
JVL00:36:21He peaced out. So he agreed when he thought it was just a documentary. About Nickelodeon. Yes. And he walked out like, you know, 30 minutes into his interview. Interesting. Nope. Um, none of this shit happened while I was there. I was there 10 years before any of this.
Mike00:36:35I'm not doing it. Yes. And, um, it's so anyway, the, the, the point is, is I did not recognize what the rest of the show does. Like I had a vague idea that those shows were on TV. Uh, the Amanda show, Drake and Josh, but like by then I'm a teenager. I'm not watching Nickelodeon. I'm watching Nickelodeon. It's not a part of what I'm.
JVL00:36:58You graduated up to MTV by then. Yeah. This is what Paramount was doing. Paramount was. It's like the makeup companies. VH1, yeah.
Mike00:37:04Right.
JVL00:37:05With their, you know, they, they have like the little girl line. They graduate you up to the more expensive makeup. That's what Paramount was doing.
Mike00:37:11Although I was, I was really not into, you know, what I was into was, uh, another Paramount, a Paramount, uh, network. I was in the Comedy Central. Like I, I like to watch the standup comedy, the reruns of. Yeah. Kids in the Hall and Saturday Night Live.
JVL00:37:24Because that's where they were graduating you up to by the time you were 20. College. Yes. Totally.
Mike00:37:29Um, but I did not like the gross out stuff and it was like always a part of the DNA, the gross out stuff. And I did not fully comprehend how hard into it that they went in the Dan Schneider era. Um, so it was, that alone was disturbing, but, uh, I think I go back and forth on this because there are times when, as I was saying, I was like, I'm not into it. I was watching this, uh, documentary series. I thought, is, is this series doing it right to conflate or are they incorrectly conflating the sort of what you described as sort of economic abuse or workplace abuse of the kids and the parents and the exploitation of them, like within the workspace of, of, of sort of conflating that with these like horrible, uh, like I can't, like I had to like look away from the screen while people were just talking about it, crimes against children by, by predators. Um, and I think I go back and forth because sometimes I think, well, look, it was in the programming. The stuff was in the programming of the, of the TV shows, the, the gross jokes, you know, the, the, the, the phallic stuff, all, all of that. But it, it also seems to me that it is, um, like different problems. Were happening that like, that, that needed to be dealt with in different ways. But at the end of the day, it all comes back apparently to this Dan Schneider guy. So maybe, maybe I'm wrong. So my point is I'm conflicted about whether or not it's, it's right or fair to conflate these two kind of areas where abuse was happening.
JVL00:39:13So I, I actually think the, I think the documentary series is very good. It's one of the few of these where the pacing is correct and there is no fat on the, on it. Totally agree. It's, it's lean. It tells the story in a very compelling way and it builds up like each episode actually you're like, holy shit, there's more, you know, it's not like they leave with the big thing and then everything else is backfill. Where I think it is a little bit, it doesn't go far enough is that this is ultimately a story about corporate governance and this is, this is a story about paramount. And the corporation, because so you, the point you make, you know, conflating workplace abuses and breakdowns of, you know, like violation of guild rules. They were, they were splitting writers salaries, which, you know, writers guild doesn't let them do, but they were doing it anyway. I just hoping nobody would get the whistle blown on them. The, that sort of thing, that is the culture which allows things like child predators to be hired as partners. You see what I'm saying? Like this, the reason people are tight asses about little things is because if you're a tight ass about the little things, the chances of a big fuck up gets smaller. This is, this is corporate culture. This is what office culture is supposed to do, you know, and you can't look, you can't guarantee that you won't wind up hiring some, some child predator because the world is full of bad people. Maybe you wouldn't have hired two of them if people were taking their, their job seriously. If, if people were acting like it was an actual workplace instead of like, you know, it's got Dan Schneider demanding that his writers come and massage him during the day or something like that. What the fuck? What the fuck is that?
Mike00:41:03So I, I think in the end, I agree with you on this. I think that's it. And the documentary does a great job of building that case because I think at first I had this, you know, idea, okay, this is going to be, this is going to be a documentary about these, um, like this, this fucked up guy with this, these fucked up, uh, you know, sexual fantasies and like how that hurt these kids. And we start off hearing about these two hearing from these two women writers on, um, on the Amanda show and, and they're kind of, uh, they, they're, uh, encounters with Dan Schneider early on in his kind of, uh, you know, in his reign, uh, at Nickelodeon. And I guess at the time I was sort of like, well, this is interesting and it tells you what kind of, uh, a terrible person he is and, and the corporate governance and corporate culture problem. But I was sort of like, well, what does this, what does this have to do? But I think actually the documentary does a good job of, of using that to demonstrate just how vindictive and how vindictive and how, um, how kind of to use the word, I don't love the word toxic, but it really does like apply here. Like the toxic culture where like touching, um, touching. Touching any of these issues is like touching the third rail, right? Like trying to bring something up is like, you're gonna, you're, you're done. You're, you are done. And, um, the show does a good job of that.
JVL00:42:37One of the things that, another thing that blew my hair back is how lax they were about parents. So, you know, the, the rules state that the parents should be basically standing next to the kid at all. Times on sets. And this was absolutely not the case. They frequently, the parents are told, no, no, no, you know what? Yo, don't be here. You know, you guys go out and get a sandwich or something. And, uh, as we find out from one of the child actors who, whose mom was a no bullshit, like she was, this is fucked up. No, that's not what the laws say on this. Uh, and he's a hundred percent not renewed after two seasons, you know, and it was, it
Mike00:43:24was like a mother, like, no, this is his break. Don't, don't rock the boat.
JVL00:43:28Don't do this.
Mike00:43:29Right. And it ruins the relationship between, between him and his mother.
JVL00:43:33I mean, his mother and he is, I mean, at that point, this kid is like 11 years old and he's the, he is the sole breadwinner for his family. Right.
Mike00:43:41And he kept saying, I'm going to get my, this is going to get my family out of the hood. Right. It's sort of like carrot and stick.
JVL00:43:46And that, that is what these things literally, this is the big difference between TV, movie, child acting and theater. Theater kids stage stuff. So if you are a theater kid, you know, in New York, trying to look all these love, you don't, your parents don't actually have to quit their jobs.
Mike00:44:05Okay.
JVL00:44:06But if you are in LA and you're a child actor, your parents can't work because they've got to be physically with you at all times, especially if you succeed. Right. And so their, their ability to provide is tied. To your ability to work. And then all that can be held against the kid, right? Because the entire family then becomes economically vulnerable. Correct. Yeah. And it's really big, but this is the big thing that jumped on. So, so the, the Monday after Brian Peck, who is the, the John Wayne Gacy loving, uh, creep creep, well, you know, sexual predator, the Monday after he is arrested, they have a table read just like normal for the week's show. And at the conclusion of the table read, there are a bunch of people there who are not, they said, uh, they said there are a bunch of grownups there who we'd never seen before. Yeah. And at the conclusion, these grownups who we can only assume, I think the only rational assumption is that they are from Paramount corporate or from Nickelodeon corporate, right? They are, they've been saying that from HR, from the general counsel's office. Lawyers. Yes.
Mike00:45:23Yeah.
JVL00:45:23Yeah. Right. They asked the parents to leave the room so they can tell the children, hey, uh, uh, Brian's not going to be around anymore. Okay. Good. Any, any issues? No. Okay. We're done. It's insane. They sent. It's insane. And again, this isn't Dan Schneider, bad boss doing this. This is, this is somebody from some C-suite who came down and sent the parents out of the room so that they wouldn't have to. Like deal with questions from them about their kids being on set with a, with, with a predator.
Mike00:46:01It's a, it's astonishing. It's it. As soon as they said the parents, like my jaw dropped, I was, I can't believe it. But of course.
JVL00:46:09And then it wasn't Schneider. It was like these other, these other actual grownup and adults, uh, the Amanda Bynes thing. Can we talk about the Amanda Bynes thing a little bit?
Mike00:46:18So Amanda Bynes went insane a few years ago. I don't know if you, if you remember this. Oh yeah. I'm very sad.
JVL00:46:24And I had never realized, I don't, I first see Amanda Bynes in her film work. I was entirely oblivious to her origins as a Nickelodeon kid, but what they actually show, they show a footage of her doing a comedy set at the laugh factory. Yes. In which a 10 year old Amanda Bynes is doing a standup set about, uh, having a pimple.
Mike00:46:53Yep. Pimple inside her nose, a pimple inside her nose.
JVL00:46:56Okay. So she's 10 years old. She does not have pimples. Right. And the manic energy that she displays doing this, it is like watching some, I mean, I don't know about you, but that freaked me the fuck out because it was like watching a broken human being trying to do an impression of what they think standup comedy looks like without understanding any of it. Um, and the reaction of the Nickelodeon people and Dan Schneider is, oh, this, this girl's going to be a star. She's got a ching and they, you know, bring her in and they sexualize her pretty quickly. They move her to her own, you know, they get a spinoff show that's just for her. And this guy, Dan Schneider is riding this relationship with this girl as she's like 10 to 13 to 14 years old in ways which are. Um, simply unconscionable, right? No, no adult who is not blood related to a child should be like that. And, uh, you know, and this girl's life winds up ruined. Like Amanda Bynes is just in and out of mental facilities at this point in her life.
Mike00:48:14And, uh, but it's terribly sad, but you get to something there at the beginning before she is picked up by Nickelodeon that I. I have been, I was unsettled by as well, which is this, like, she, she's like a wind up toy. Like you, like, like you, you, did they use that there? Did you use that? Did they use the metaphor in the, in the film? Or did I like just make that up? Because like, that is all I could think of every time I see her. It's like, like they, they got out of the box and they wasn't freaked out by her.
JVL00:48:48Like on every, it is uncanny if, if what we see of Amanda Bynes is performance. Is we're something we see in the movie, the joker and presented to us as a look at this creepy thing happening over here. That would play as if it scans, right?
Mike00:49:07Totally. 100%. Um, we haven't, I have, since we both only done three episodes, we have not gotten to what is sort of, um, uh, hinted at and, and, and montaged at it. The first episode, uh, which is later on, right with, um, Ariana Grande, it's show, which I don't even know what that's called. And like a couple of the others were like what Victoria justice. Yeah. What, what happens with Amanda binds is like turned up to 11 with her, with like, I mean, they show clips of it with like, I mean, it's, it is, it is just straight up pornography without, without the, without the nudity it's it's like, I
JVL00:49:47can't believe I'm watching wild Ariana Grande, like leaning back across a bed, dousing herself with water age, 10 is. I just can't imagine that this shit was being put on television.
Mike00:49:58I, and I can't imagine if, if I was a kid then, I mean, my, my mom was more, maybe a little more sort of, uh, attentive to these things than maybe the average parent, but not like, uh, extremely. So, but just like was always kind of looking for stuff that she didn't like and say, don't watch that show anymore. Uh, you're. You're not allowed to see that show anymore. Um, like I can't imagine what it was, what it was like, uh, to have these shows because I, I was thinking about, okay, what was different? Everybody always thinks when they, when they were a kid, when they were watching it or what they were doing, it was better. I was trying to think what, what is actually different about the quality or, uh, what is the quality besides just Dan Schneider? And I think a couple of things that stick out to me. Um, so, so one of my favorite Nickelodeon shows growing up. Was a live action, uh, single camera sitcom called the adventures of Pete and Pete, um, which, uh, was, I think, uh, I think a brilliant show, very smart. It was, it was what attracted me to it was it did not speak down to kids. It was, and that is like actually a hallmark of a lot of the shows that I really enjoyed on Nickelodeon. It was not speaking down. It was speaking. It was like, there were, there was almost aspects of it that were esoteric. It was sort of this absurd, these two brothers who were both named Pete and they lived in this town that was like a little Springfieldy in terms of like there were odd characters and their parents were a little odd and it was, it was sort of heightened reality. And it was like this brilliant show and they had this like kind of, um, jangle pop, uh, theme song to open up the, it was like everything about it was very nineties and very smart. Um, and I think if you like, if you were to look at it retrospectively, you would, you would sort of understand it was where, and the thing that strikes me about all these Dan Schneider shows, again, I haven't really seen much of them, uh, at all is like, they are so on their face, extremely stupid, extremely lowest common denominator on top of the gross sexual stuff. Like it, it is all, it feels less. Like it, it feels like, okay, this is the, the, the money starts to come in and it's like, just give us more crap, just give us more crap and we don't really care what you do and there's something about that they hinted at where it's like Dan Schneider and company seem to think, seem to almost get off on the idea that they were putting stuff that should not be on TV. On TV. Oh yeah. They talk about this all the time, right?
JVL00:52:49Cameron characters and last name is taint and they, right. You know, they can sneak it past us.
Mike00:52:54The sense and, and that is, it just makes me, it makes me incredibly sad. Not just for the kids who were abused or had to like work in that environment, but for like the kids who were watching it. Let me, let me try out a theory on you.
JVL00:53:13Try it out.
Mike00:53:13Let me lay it on me.
JVL00:53:16I was not a consumer of Nickelodeon, but from afar, the message I got about what the Nickelodeon brand. Was that it was kids rule and we're doing, we're the kids and we're doing kids stuff for kids and parents are idiots. First of all, the whole thing is a lie because these aren't kids doing kids things. These are kids being used as puppets, right? These are, these are children. These children are not getting profit participation. These children are not writing the shows. These children are not doing direct. These, these are fully adult productions in which the, the kids are literally just puppets. They're being, you stand there and say this, they are, they are no, no more the actual creators of the show than a drawing would be if the show was animated. Yep. But what, what is made very clear by. This documentary is that at least among the grownups we see who are the ones actually creating it, none of them are parents. It's a very. Did you pick up on that? Oh yeah. None of them are parents. Maybe they're parents later, but at the time that, that they are making this shit. Nope. And there's something particularly disgusting about these people, not only like expressing exploiting the kids as labor and then exploiting the audience kids by pretending that the product that they're, you know, stuffing down their gullets is actually really by kids, but then slagging off parents when they themselves have no context for any of this shit.
Mike00:55:13It's really.
JVL00:55:15It's bad.
Mike00:55:16It is bad. I will say that as certainly as a parent, as an adult. I don't like I can appreciate why parents like even maybe my own were not like thrilled that Nickelodeon existed, that Nickelodeon was all this kids, you know, kids rule, parents drool kind of attitude. I do think I do think they're like with everything there is going to go back to like what I grew up with. There is a there is a good version of of this that is oriented toward. Like entertainment, that's not cutesy Disney, right? Like that was a big part of Nickelodeon was like, we're not cutesy Disney, like there's a little edge to it, but the edge is like in in some combination of sort of like silliness and rambunctiousness, messiness and but even the house animation style for Nickelodeon,
JVL00:56:15everything is messy. Everything is messy. Yes.
Mike00:56:18And I don't think that that's always necessarily bad. What I see. In the Dan Schneider situation is a failed actor and comedian or comic actor, a child who never grew up, who saw an opportunity to be the big fish in a in a relative, you It's Nickelodeon and like to create his own world where he was in charge and and that is and you know, I can't speak and maybe the documentary goes into more detail about the sort of the corporate side of this like because clearly they were they were okay with it. He was probably just making money hand over fist and they were fine with that. But that's the part of the story. I would like to know is like like they eventually cut him loose. Well, but yeah. When did the grown-ups get involved and what is it to I guess it's me too, right? Yeah, it's me too.
JVL00:57:29It's 2017. I think the 2018 they cut him loose finally.
Mike00:57:33Yeah. So anyway, I it's it's it's depressing and I'm not sure I would recommend that anybody
JVL00:57:42watch this.
Mike00:57:42Yeah, that's the thing. It's a real downer episode. It's a real downer.
JVL00:57:46There's a lot to talk about and it's fascinating, but I don't know that you need to watch it. It's maybe just hearing us talk about it is enough. It might. It might be enough. Yeah, I don't know. Any any other. There is no fire festival schadenfreude going on in this. That's right. Is what I was walking in expecting. I was expecting to learn that Mark from Double Dare was secretly like banging producers two at a time or something.
Mike00:58:08No, nothing. By the fun like that. Maybe this be an outtake. OK, well, is there OK? Is there anything else? Anything else about this documentary series? Quiet on set that that people should know or it did make me think.
JVL00:58:24That at the series TV level. Everything should be animated in that they shouldn't. You shouldn't. It should be illegal to use child actors. In a recurring roles on series television.
Mike00:58:42So this actually does get to something I meant to bring up, which is which is like, how do you solve the problem of of of children in show business? Because it's it's all bad. Like even the success stories prove the rule, right? Like they're like, you can think of the children who like came out of being child actors. You could like name them on like two hands. Like it's like Elijah Wood or they went and fucked up anyway.
JVL00:59:12Like Macaulay Culkin and Drew Barrymore.
Mike00:59:14You know, it's it's it's bad. It is bad. And there's no solution.
JVL00:59:21OK, kid wants to be an actor. Tell him to become a. Theater kid who transitions to TV in college. Or tell him to tell him to do stand up comedy. That's no, that's it's the it's the only Amanda Bynes thing. I don't wait. Tell him to wait until they're in high school to do to do stand up comedy.
Mike00:59:40It's the only it's the only honest show business left. OK, well, this has been a thoroughly depressing episode. We need Sonny back. Thank you for joining us. Go to Subbeacon dot com and we'll talk to you next time. So, yeah, because I have one thing for you.
JVL01:00:04Well, you go first. You go first. Just a little follow up Olympic thing. NBC's production of the Olympics is in many ways incoherent.
Mike01:00:17Yeah.
JVL01:00:18So, for instance, their opening ceremonies were anchored by Mike Tirico. Great. Love him. Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kudumbu or whatever her name is. Great. They do the Macy's parade. Makes sense to have them.
Mike01:00:31They do the fourth hour of today show. Sure.
JVL01:00:34And then Kelly Clarkson and Peyton Manning. Who make absolutely no sense why they are there.
Mike01:00:42Do they not make sense together or they don't make sense in the bigger picture? They make no sense for being at the Olympics. Makes no sense. Wait a second. Peyton Manning. Let me defend this. Having not watched any of this, by the way. The only thing I saw was Mike Tirico interviewing Colin Jost in Tahiti, which was hilarious. But Peyton Manning has the has the Manning cast, right? Like he's got like he there's a sort of bro-ish fan perspective that he has experience bringing.
JVL01:01:13Well, what I was going to say, though, is that it makes no sense. And yet it kind of worked. Oh, OK. Good. I'm sorry. I cut you off. But the thing which really which. Made the least amount of sense is Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg is everywhere in NBC's Olympic coverage. And I think it's just because they're putting him on a bunch of NBC shows. And so that's why they are. But I am telling Snoop Dogg works like you would not believe as part of this thing. And he's always high. And and yet it's I'm sorry. It's great. He is great to having Snoop Dogg sort of. Totally baked halfway interviewing and mumbling through talking to whoever he's talking to for three minutes at a time. And then saying something incomprehensible at the end as he pieces out to camera. It's awesome. It's so G money is just like, who is he? He's amazing. And now every time Snoop Dogg is G money's like Snoop. It's Snoop. I just think that the the first time I ever heard Snoop Dogg on Dr. Dre's. 92 album, the chronic. Which I think might have been his like big label debut. Oh, yeah. Man, this guy is this guy's awesome. This guy's a real talent. Never in a million years. I think to myself someday Snoop Dogg is going to become so domesticated in American culture that he's going to be just a floating personality at the Olympics.
Mike01:02:47I mean, it all started with him and Martha Stewart, right? Like they like became this duo. They were doing commercials and TV specials. And stuff together. And yeah, you know, only in America, only in America. All right.
JVL01:02:58What do you got?
Mike01:03:00Well, now that you asked me now, I can't remember. I'm sure it's fine.
Spot something wrong in this episode? Suggest a correction →
Comments
Loading…