#239. 'Madame Web'
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Mike, JVL, and Sonny take wildly different positions on Madame Web (2024), Sony's Dakota Johnson-led Spider-Man spinoff. Sonny is scathing, walking through the plot's incoherence in detail and zeroing in on the villain's wall-to-wall ADR (his mouth barely ever matches his French-inflected line readings) and the fact that the three "Spider-Women" teased in every trailer never actually do anything super-heroic; JVL is the film's unlikely champion, calling it the best Marvel-adjacent movie since No Way Home, praising Dakota Johnson's deadpan comic charm, and arguing the prescience/motherhood plotting is genuinely thematically coherent even if he liked the villain's "evil Bruce Wayne" concept more than his muddled execution; Mike splits the difference, enjoying the central power gimmick and the chemistry between Johnson and her three proteges while conceding Sonny's points about the villain and the film's baffling sense of time. The argument escalates into JVL ranking Madame Web above nearly every recent MCU entry — The Marvels, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, Eternals, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness — which Sonny calls an insane opinion, and there's a long detour into Sony's Spider-Man-less "Spider-Verse" (Venom, Morbius) being a creative dead end, plus riffs on Pepsi product placement and a Britney Spears needle-drop Sonny insists proves the movie was originally set in the '90s. The first third, as usual, is pure banter: JVL's seven-year-old G-Money got too scared to finish Madame Web in the theater but immediately demanded to watch Jaws, sparking a parenting debate and a detour into an old story about young Vic Matus and beer; Sonny recounts a family bowling outing that turns into a riff on dive bowling alleys versus expensive gastropub-style ones; and Mike describes his birthday, highlighted by finding a rare 1975 first-pressing of Led Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti with its die-cut cover and playing his dad's old Les Paul for the first time in years. Box office talk covers Bob Marley: One Love's surprising crossover audience and a lengthy Sonny rant about Warner Bros. shelving Coyote vs. Acme for a tax write-off instead of releasing it into a family-movie-starved marketplace.
From the show notes
the cast sees the cinemascore for the movie
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00I've seen that man before. So who is he? Ezekiel Sims. He was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders right before she died. Wait, I recognize you. You live in my building. You're the paramedic. Yeah, you almost ran me over. You don't think this is weird how we're all connected? It's honestly like the least weird thing that's happened all day.
Mike00:00:30Welcome to another episode of the Sub-Beacon podcast. I am your co-host, Mike Warren. And with me, as always, are my two co-hosts who know that very memorable phrase, when you take on the responsibility, great power will come. Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at SubBeacon.com. SubBeacon.com. Tell your friends and family to come join us there. Become a patron. You can get episodes every Friday morning and bonus episodes when we do them on Mondays. You can be a part of the conversation, but you've got to be a patron over at SubBeacon.com. We are going to be talking about Madam Web later on in the show. But first, JVL, what's happening, my man?
JVL00:01:30So, G-Money is seven.
Mike00:01:32Yes.
JVL00:01:33Seven. And he has been obsessed for the last week with the movie Jaws. I take it to mean that somebody in his class recently saw Jaws, and so all the boys are talking about Jaws. And G-Money is just, he's like a little energizer. Can I see Jaws? Can I see Jaws? Can I see Jaws? I want to see Jaws. I want to see Jaws. So he hasn't seen it yet. What happens at Jaws? And when the charts... Now, what's funny about this is that G-Money is also an enormous scaredy cat, and I think it's now been a while since we have completed a movie that we watch in the theater, culminating this week when we left the, when we left Madam Web after an hour, because it was too intense
Sonny00:02:21for him.
JVL00:02:23And as we were leaving, and I, you know, he was very upset, and I feel so bad. I feel so bad that I'm making you leave this movie, and, you know, and you're going to have to go back to see it again, and it's such a pain, and I'm so sorry. I said to him, buddy, don't, don't you worry. Nothing is more important to me than your sense of safety. And if you're caught in a movie and it's not right for you, we'll leave. That's fine. One hour later, one hour. So, uh, can we see Jaws? Can we watch Jaws? I said, buddy, you couldn't make it through Madam Web. He goes, yeah, but that's because all the blood. I said, well, the blood, there was one scene where Cassie looked down at her hands and her hands were covered with blood. I said, Jaws has a lot of blood. He goes, yeah, but dad, that's all in the water. And when it's in the water, you can tell it's just food coloring.
Mike00:03:18I said, buddy.
JVL00:03:21So I have a parenting decision. Do I tell him, all right, you can watch Jaws. Asked for it. But unlike in the movie theater, we're strapping you down to the couch. You can't get up and leave. You said you want it. I'm telling you that you don't want it. But if you would like to substitute your judgment for mine as a seven-year-old, I'm willing to do it, provided you are willing to live with the consequences of your decisions.
Sonny00:03:46This is like, uh, this is like the old, if you catch him smoking, you make him smoke the whole carton.
Mike00:03:52Yes.
Sonny00:03:53Routine.
Mike00:03:53You watch the beginning, the end, the whole damn thing.
Sonny00:03:56It's like, uh, it's like. Bobby Hill in King of the Hill. Hank catches him smoking the cigarette and they make him smoke the whole carton.
JVL00:04:02Do you remember the Vic Mattis version of this story?
Sonny00:04:06Vaguely.
JVL00:04:06So young Vic Mattis was, uh, visiting their family in the Philippines as a five-year-old and his dad and uncles were sitting around on the porch having beers and Vic Mattis did a, can I have a beer? Can I have a beer? Can I have a beer? Can I have a beer? Until to shut them up, they finally were like, yeah, sure. Have one. I was thinking like any five-year-old, he would immediately spit it out. Five-year-old Vic Mattis was instead like Barney from the Simpson until they had to
Sonny00:04:37reach over and grab it away from him because he thought it was the greatest thing ever.
JVL00:04:42I'm kidding. I'm not going to let him watch Jaws.
Sonny00:04:44Starting a lifelong love affair with malted beverages. I think, look.
JVL00:04:49The job of a parent is to say no. And so that's what I do. I think you're right. That's what I do. Yeah.
Sonny00:04:54I'm going to disagree on this one. In the sense that like, well, I don't know. I mean, Jaws is a tricky one. So you know what Jaws is rated, right? Jaws is rated PG. PG.
JVL00:05:09Jaws is rated PG. Back in the day when PG meant nothing.
Sonny00:05:12PG. And this is a movie that opens on a nude woman in a pool getting eaten by a shark.
JVL00:05:21In a horrific way.
Sonny00:05:23It's not like Showgirls, right? It's not like Showgirls. You don't see everything, but you see something. So I would say he's just too young for it on a general content level. I am surprised because you had asked, is Madam Web too scary? And I like, there was nothing in it that I found even remotely scary.
JVL00:05:49Had I seen it in its entirety first, I would have said to him when he said, can I go see Madam Web? Absolutely. There is nothing in this that will freak you out. Right. I was shocked that it bugged him.
Mike00:06:03Yeah, that's weird. But my kids are weird about movies like that, too. It's like, it's like, it doesn't even have to be scary. It's the way the score might be building towards something. Oh, maybe that was that. That freaks them out. Like, it's even, it's not even what they're seeing. It's what they're anticipating will happen that freaks them out about. So I get it. And I agree. I agree with you that, that just Jaws is no, like, like there's a, there's a line like he, he, uh, you know, not like he's done anything wrong here. You know, you're not punishing him.
JVL00:06:38No, no. Instead, because he wanted to walk out of Madam Web, I'm going to teach him a lesson. I'm going to make him watch the voyeurs, the, the Sidney Sweeney movie.
Sonny00:06:48That movie, that movie does much more with Sidney Sweeney. Frankly, that movie does. That movie makes much better use of her talents as an actress, as a human, her talents.
Mike00:06:57Uh, how are you guys? Yeah. Sonny, what's going on with you?
Sonny00:07:03Not a whole lot. Uh, you know, three day weekends are always fun. Um, four day weekend in my house, you guys had a four day weekend.
JVL00:07:14God, that's the worst Friday off too. And Thursday was a half day. Thursday was practically summer.
Sonny00:07:20Thursday was a half day for us as well. And I didn't understand that.
Mike00:07:23I didn't, I didn't understand why of quarter that was, we had that a couple of weeks ago, I guess.
Sonny00:07:27I guess. I don't know. Uh, no, but you know, they're, they're always fun. So we went bowling, we went bowling, uh, with some, with some friends, you know, some of, some of Charlie's friends were, um, we were all there. And, uh, and that was a lot of fun, but it was, it's, it's interesting because there are two types of bowling alleys. Now you have like kind of classic, you know, big Lebowski style bowling alleys. Right. And this is, this was one of those. Um, and then you have what I can, what, what's that?
JVL00:07:57The new Jack ones with the lasers and the black lights.
Sonny00:08:01Yeah. No, well, no, no. Well, like that. So that's this, right? Like the, yeah. So, but then, then you have the new ones that are like, I can only describe them as like hot couture bowling alleys. So this, it's like, it's like a bowling alley where the, where it's like, it's laid out like, uh, I don't like a gastropub basically. And it's got like fancy food and it's got a bar with. Like 37 different micro brews on tap.
Mike00:08:31It's the Alamo draft house of bowling alleys.
Sonny00:08:33Kind of. Yeah. So like, you know, we, we, we, they're, we've now experienced both of these, but the children, uh, and, and I think they don't really, they don't really notice the difference in part because they're not throwing down their credit card at the end of the day. But this is, this is the thing is that like the, the like hot couture one is like five times as expensive. It's like, it was like $120 for, you know, two hours of bowling. Bowling and food and drinks and everything.
JVL00:09:00Um, I mean, it was like, I mean, it was, it was almost have taken a family to see a movie for that.
Sonny00:09:04It was, it was genuinely outrageous. It was, that was an, it was an enormous amount of money. It's not that expensive. Well, I, at the draft house, I guess it's different for, for, um, taking the family because, you know, I've got the, I've got season pass, so I don't pay for a ticket. Kids tickets are cheaper, but like the popcorn at the draft house is great because you just buy one bowl. It's, I should have said at the AMC. Yeah, at the AMC, maybe that's, that's more of a, it's more at the AMC or the Regal.
Mike00:09:31Isn't it, isn't it pronounced Oat Couture? Oat?
Sonny00:09:36I, I don't know. I'm, what, do I, I'm sorry. Do I look like a French person? Do I look like a, do I look like a.
Mike00:09:43That's the reaction I was looking for.
Sonny00:09:44Do I look like a frog? Am I sitting here talking about surrendering to the hated Germans? No.
Mike00:09:51All right. Continue. I'm sorry.
Sonny00:09:53Uh, so we went to, we went to like the old school, big Lebowski. Style bowling alley this, this weekend. It's, and I, frankly, it's much better. I prefer it. Like we ordered, it's funny. We ordered like, uh, chips and French fries and they didn't come for 50 minutes. And so we just asked for our money back. It was like, I, we're leaving. We're leaving the bowling alley. You didn't get us. And they were like, sorry, we're sorry. They decided to change the oil in the fries. I was like, well, why didn't you bring the chips? They're like, we bring it all out at the same time. She looked at me like I'm a fucking idiot.
Mike00:10:21What kind of establishment do you think this is?
Sonny00:10:23She looked at me like I'm an idiot. Like we want to bring it all out at the same time. And I was just like. I'm going to murder everybody. I got screaming hungry children here. Um, but, uh, but it was, but it was funny because, you know, like, again, it's like, it's like a, you know, there were like 60 lanes here. It's, it's enormous. Um, and, and the, the fair, the crowd on like a Sunday afternoon is pretty chill. It's like families. And, you know, there was a birthday party at one end of the alley, but it was funny. We were there with a, with people who go there on, on the regular, uh, one of the guys, the guy, the, the dad is like, I don't think it's currently. In a league, but as frequently a league bowler. And he was like, yeah, if you come here on like a Friday or a Saturday night, they want you. They like, they pat you down. They like, they make, they like, we came here with our, you know, with our baby who is, you know, in a, like a kid carrier and had like a blanket on top of her. They took the blanket off the child and like searched all around. And I was like, like, what are Alan Iverson's for what? Uh, I, I think, I think it's a combination. Well, I, um, yeah, the both, I think it's kind of, kind of a combination of both because this is, it's, it's, it's, it's an interesting part of town where lots of different groups of people are kind of mingling, but also I, but my question was, are they searching for like alcohol or weapons? Cause it could go, you could go either way. Uh, and they were like, yeah, just everything. They just want to make sure you're not bringing in contraband. It's definitely a rougher, you don't want to bring the kids. Don't bring the kids here on Friday and Saturday night. Like you want to do a daytime. Um, Sunday in the day, Saturday in the day, maybe is probably fine. Uh, but it was definitely just like it. There are just, there are two Americas folks. There are, there are two, there's, there is micro brew bowling and there is getting patted down.
JVL00:12:10Magnetometer bowling.
Sonny00:12:11There is, there is getting, there's getting patted down by Rico, uh, in the, in the, in the yellow security jacket bowling. Those are, it's just two different, two different experiences. I, I, I love, I love, I love. I love where I live. It's fascinating. It's a fascinating place.
Mike00:12:30How'd you bowl? How'd you bowl Sonny?
Sonny00:12:31I actually didn't even bowl. So we, we had two lanes and the, the, there were boys in one lane and girls in the other lane. And like the dad who is the league bowler, he was, he was, he was throwing strikes. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. And he was, he was throwing strikes tonight, Donnie. Uh, but the, uh, but, but it was all the kids. Like I stayed with the moms. I was like, I don't want to, I'm not getting out there. And I'm not, I'm not embarrassing myself on the, on the lanes today.
Mike00:12:56Do you, do you remember? I just saw this pop up like somewhere on my Instagram. Are you guys familiar with Pete Weber? He's like the, he's like the Michael Jordan, LeBron James of professional bowling.
Sonny00:13:07Well, isn't he? And isn't he the guy who like has the viral videos? Cause he's a real asshole. Yes.
Mike00:13:12And his, one of his quotes, uh, this just, this was from like 10 years ago, but, uh, is who do you think you are? I am after like getting some, like, after like winning something, which is like so funny to imagine. A bowler, but like, it's, it's a competition like any other, but who do you think you are?
Sonny00:13:31It's like, it's like Bill Murray and Kingpin, but real life. Yes. Yeah. That's a good movie. We should, we should do that movie.
Mike00:13:38So that's a good idea. Yeah. We may have to Michael. How are you? I am fine. Um, celebrated my birthday last weekend of last week. Uh, so we, uh, we took the day off. My wife and I did. Um, you know, we, we had the, the two older kids in school. It was a Friday, uh, the, the, the, the youngest one in the, in the daycare. And we're like, man, we got the whole day. Um, of course you don't actually have the whole day when, when you've got, um, it was your birthday when you, when you've got, when you've got like three 30, you have to be. And then like, and then my, my wife was like, oh, actually I have an appointment. I have to be somewhere. At three o'clock, a doctor's appointment at five hours. So exactly. So, so my wife came up with a very nice sort of set of ideas. So we went out to breakfast after we dropped the baby off and we're like, what are we going to do? And she knows I do. I like doing things like, um, like use bookstores and record stores and that sort of thing. And, um, she mapped out a whole kind of bunch of them and in some parts of town that we hadn't been to. So we could go check those out. Um, and then ended up, we had enough. Time to go to basically one bookstore, one record store, uh, and then pick up some, um, pizza from this place. I like to take home, to have dinner later that night. So it was like kind of, it was, it was fine. It was fun. And I got, I got some great books and I got a terrific, uh, uh, find at this record store, which was like upstairs in this small town in Northern Virginia, upstairs, uh, on top of this building. And it's just this guy, like this, like 20 year old guy. It was like sitting in this tiny little room with all these records splayed out everywhere, um, which is where you can find the good ones. And I found, um, a, uh, an original, I believe it's an original, um, 1975 Led Zeppelin album, physical graffiti, um, which is the double album. Um, that's the one that's got cashmere on it. And, uh, if you're familiar, if you're familiar, but what makes it, what makes it great and what makes it good to find and why I actually paid a little more. Money than I normally would have is it's got the, it's the original, which has like the holes. So, so, so the, the cover of it is like a picture of a building in New York, like a, like a four or five story building and the windows there's actually cut out in the, in the cover. And then on the inside, there are, um, there are like the, the, the, the sleeve has the letters of the name of the album, physical graffiti. Um, but then there's like these other sleeves. You could like use to interchange and they have like different pictures in the windows and on the back cover. And, um, you can't find them because like they started, they, they made them and then they like, it's too expensive. So like on the reissues, like three years later and afterward, you couldn't get it. It was just kind of all flat. And so I was able to find it. So that was a nice little find.
JVL00:16:44So this is like a first edition. Kind of.
Mike00:16:48Now it's, it's, it's used. It's not like in, in the best condition, but like I've listened to the LP itself and it's the LP is fine.
JVL00:16:55No, but I mean the pressing of it. So you think it's like a first edition of it?
Mike00:16:59It must be. It's hard to tell. I mean, if, if I were like an expert in these things, I would know, um, how to tell these things, but I do not think, and maybe somebody who's like a, uh, who's like a, you know, vinyl file out there, like knows these sorts of things. Um, I don't think they, I don't think they made this, this, uh, what do you call it? The cover like this, um, after like 1976 or so. Um, so it's, it's, it's, it's like a good little fine. Yeah. And, um, it did just like remind me, not that we need reminding of this, but like the modern music industry, like the whole idea of like some gimmick with the packaging of the record, like this is so, it is so sort of like far gone from where we are. Like nobody, you know, anybody who's buying like physical media for, for music, like it's because they have a turntable, you know, then they, and they, and they like listening to this stuff, but like for a mass audience, like they would have to come up with these like gimmicks. It's like, oh yeah, you gotta get, you gotta get this cover. Good. It's got the little holes in it.
JVL00:18:05Right. Just the art on the album cover was a big deal in that started going away when they moved to tape. Right. Cause it's just your, your real estate to do that was so much smaller. And the LPs are as the French call them, we'll be at start right there. There's right. And they're, they're beautiful.
Mike00:18:28Yeah, totally. Well, like there was another, there was a Led Zeppelin record that came out like a few years after physical graffiti. And it's, it reminds me of like the different endings of clue in the movie theater, because they had like four or five different covers and it was all the same shot, the same photograph from different angles. And so it was like this idea that like you would like, like, which one are you going to get? Yeah, exactly. So anyway, it was, it was. It was, it was, so it was a nice, it's a nice little Friday. It was fine.
JVL00:18:57Um, something like that set you back.
Mike00:18:59So that was a $50.
JVL00:19:01Ah, that's pretty good.
Mike00:19:04Again, not mint condition, totally reasonable, but like you're
JVL00:19:08not going to play it, right. You're going to have a graded and slabbed by CGC or PSA.
Sonny00:19:13Does CGC do vinyl gratings? They must. Right.
JVL00:19:17They must, but like co pops. Now, do you know this?
Sonny00:19:20So they grade, they grade VHS and DVDs. We talked about this on. The show.
JVL00:19:24Didn't we say this is ridiculous. No, Michael, I just assumed that what all good hipsters do is when you get a find like this, you immediately send it away to get graded and then you just hang it on your wall or display at some place.
Mike00:19:37No, no, because I'm not a hipster and because I'm a, I'm a big dork. What I actually do is I put the record that I just bought on the turntable. And then whatever child is in the room, I go, Hey, you want to listen to this? This is a really cool stuff. And they'd listen. They very politely go. Oh, that's nice. I think, yeah, good, good, good, good, good music.
JVL00:19:57Dad, I hope that doesn't, uh, reduce it from an eight to a 7.5.
Mike00:20:04My record collection started because my, my uncle gave me a bunch of like copies of records and like. It's just like the idea of like preserving any of them. Like nobody thought about this. They're like all warped and stuff. It's just, yeah.
Sonny00:20:16So anyway, my, my, my dad still has like, he must have like 500 LPs in. In his like, uh, media center that they got moved from Arkansas to Maryland, to England, to Florida, to DC, to like, just all over the world. Uh, God only knows in what, what shape they're in.
Mike00:20:40Well, um, I mean, it's, it's, uh, this, this will make me sound like, uh, a real prick about these things, but like you do notice the difference when you listen to it as opposed to the, well, just. It's like the way I describe it is, and this is like not a new insight because everybody knows about compression, digital compression and the music. Like you feel like you can hear the individual tracks, right? You could hear the, the, the drum track and the bass track, and it's like, they're all playing together, but you can hear them separately. So it's, you know, I was texting my brother who's like really into collecting records and he was like, he's like, yeah, man, look, go welcome. Welcome to the, uh,
JVL00:21:21there's a reason that people who like you who play guitar. Want amps that are made with vacuum tubes instead of the latest technology, right? You want a tube amp and not a digital amp that is made with all the latest technology because the, the stuff that's using vacuum tubes, vacuum tubes, which were used to build like the very first computers, right by, I, yes, yes, those things create the best sound.
Mike00:21:45Well, uh, the capper to this whole thing, and then we'll move on here is that, um, so I said that my wife had to get back so she could go back to the computer. I had to go to this appointment and I had like an hour between when she left, uh, and when the bus came, and so I did something on this day off of mine, on my birthday that I have not done in, I really don't know how long, but two years, which is I plugged in my amp and actually my, my dad, I haven't played this guitar yet. My dad gave me one of his, uh, Les Pauls, um, and, uh, like, like two, two, not the time they were here, but even the time before that, I still haven't played it. So I plugged that in and played for like 45 minutes, just like turn it up. Nobody's in the house. I was like, oh, this is it. And then I, what did you play?
JVL00:22:35What did you, what did you go to? Right to Guns N' Roses?
Sonny00:22:38No, no. I played Led Zeppelin actually. It was on my mind. Stairway.
Mike00:22:41No, I played, um, I played, uh, uh, 10 years gone, which is on physical graffiti, uh, which has got like a good, it's like stairway. It's got the quiet and the loud, the quiet and loud. So anyway, great. My God. It was great. It was great. And then, and then everybody got sick at my house and it's been just downhill fucking hell since then. But let's move on. Speaking of fucking hell, let's talk about the box office. Uh, it's an eight plus transition. Thank you very much. I just made it up right on the spot. Uh, so number one of the box office this week, Bob Marley, one love.
Sonny00:23:17People love musical biopics. I don't know. I don't know what to, I don't know. Like, I don't know what to tell you guys. I, I haven't seen this. I have no real interest in it. Maybe, maybe we can do an episode on it, but I like Bob Marley was never my thing. I never really, never really got into it. Um, uh, but it's huge head people, people love, you know what people like people like going to movie theaters and watching people who look vaguely like musicians sing songs that they recognize from the radio and their record collections. That's what, that's what people want. That's all people want.
Mike00:23:49They want to do the Leonardo DiCaprio in once upon a time in Hollywood where they went at the screen. I know that. I love, I love Bob Marley, but I don't want to see this movie.
Sonny00:24:00Yeah. It's, it's a huge, it's a huge, it's also, it's also a function of box office tracking has never been very good at figuring out what black audiences are, are going to show up to and are not going to show up to. Um, they always underestimate. I mean, I remember when the, the numbers for black Panther came out and like the weekend numbers went from like, ah, it's probably going to be like a 70, $80 million opening to like, oh, this is going to make 200 something. A million dollars.
JVL00:24:25So I was surprised at this though, because the, it looked like white audiences were the plurality for, for one love with 31%, which shocked me because I thought that this would be a, you know, 50% African-American audience or something, but Sean McNulty had this and I, I went and looked through it today because that's what I was expecting to see. And I was shocked at how big the white number was and the African-American number was like 31% or something like that.
Sonny00:24:55Um, I mean, yeah, that, that is interesting though. It also like the exit polling on that stuff is always kind of tricky. Like it, it, it, I don't know that their numbers are always that great, but wait, I sit there
JVL00:25:07and guess, or are they going up to people and saying, sir, that's, that's, so that's
Sonny00:25:13like the, they're not, they're doing, they're kind of eyeballing it. They're not, they're not, uh, um, I think, I mean, maybe, maybe these people are, maybe they're having people. Fill out the other, the other thing is like who sits in, like fills out the, the exit rent track, you know, stuff like whatever I wait. So wait, the number, it was only, it was only 20% black, 30% white.
JVL00:25:35Yeah. That's, that's what I don't think it added up to a hundred. I was looking at that.
Mike00:25:39That doesn't make any sense, but, but it does, it does not surprise me that this movie would have a substantial white audience of, you know, of, of, of boomer types. I mean, if just thinking about like Bob Marley, like Bob Marley. Tracks rock, if that makes any sense, like you hear him on classic rock stage. Exactly. So, so I think there's a, that, that makes some sense to me in a way that seven-year-old
JVL00:26:05white people who are excited that they can now just have gummies legally and watch a nice, nice young man singing reggae for peace, saying for peace.
Sonny00:26:18No, I have no real interest in seeing that, but I'm glad it's doing well. Good for, good for it. Hey, you know what? The last, the last movie for black audiences that overperformed and then tanked was The Color Purple. Remember, The Color Purple opened on Christmas Day to like $20 million or something, like some insane number. It was, it was like, it was the second or third highest Christmas Day opening of all time. And that rep, that ended up representing like 40% of its total box office take domestically because it was all front, it was like all incredibly front loaded. It's already on HBO Max. It's, it's, I turned on, I turned on HBO Max to watch the end of. True Detective, Night Country, and The Color Purple was already there.
Mike00:26:59And, and, and, and that, that was a musical, right? So I'm assuming people were just like, wait a second, I didn't sign up for a musical.
Sonny00:27:05But you know what, you know what held and what, what kept strong legs the whole, the whole time, despite being a musical that they hid from people was Wonka. Wonka, but that, that also benefited from there just being nothing for families in theaters. Like if you want to take your kids to the movies, you got Migration and Wonka. That's it. For the last. Two months.
JVL00:27:24Can I ask you to recapitulate your, uh, Acme versus Wile E. Coyote argument?
Sonny00:27:32So there's, uh, so there's a big story right now. Coyote versus Acme, which is a live action animation hybrid, like a Roger Rabbit sort of thing. Um, or Space Jam sort of thing that basically takes the Looney Tunes character, Wile E. Coyote, and it, he is suing Acme for constantly failing him in his plots to, and it's got this great human cast. With like John Cena and Will Forte and, you know, a bunch of, a bunch of funny guys. Um, I haven't seen it. I mean, nobody, nobody has seen it.
JVL00:28:01It's tested through the roof though.
Sonny00:28:02Well, that's, there, there have been conflicting reports about that. The people who want it released have said it is tested amazingly. And the studio sources have talked to the guys at Puck and been like, it hasn't tested that well. If it had tested amazingly, we would have put it in theaters. Come on. Um, so, so basically what has happened is that David Zaslav and the bean counters at Warner Brothers have said, it makes more sense for us to kill this movie, throw it in the digital trash bin and take the tax write-off, take like a $40 million tax write-off than it does to spend 30 or $40 million on advertising, put it in theaters.
JVL00:28:39They pulled a Batgirl.
Sonny00:28:41That's what we did to Batgirl. That made sense. And like they, they also, so, so they, they announced that they were going to do, or they, they word leaked that they were going to do this. People threw a fit. They're like, you can't do this. This is ridiculous. People got to see this movie. So they're like, all right, fine. We'll try and sell it. And what they did, I think, was put it on the market with no intention of ever selling it. They, they offered it, you know, they said like, Hey, we will sell it to you for $70 million, Netflix, Amazon prime, whatever. And when the, when the other streamers came back with a counter offer, they said, no, no, no. We, we said, we will sell it to you for this amount of money. Anyway, they were never going to sell it to another streamer because they want to, the, the whole reason they're doing this isn't just a tax write-off. It's, they're also trying to. Protect the Looney Tunes brand. They don't want to have something that they see as inferior, diluting the brand, whatever. So this is, this is a long way of saying, uh, this movie was supposed to come out like in 2022 at some point. And I got, uh, it got bumped to the, uh, or I'm sorry, it was supposed to come out in 2023. It was, it was, I was, let me start all the way back at the beginning. It was supposed to come out directly to HBO max. Somebody at HBO and Warner brothers was like, no, we got to put this in theaters. It doesn't make any sense to do it. Just HBO max. So then originally it was slotted in what became the Barbie release date. It was going to be the end of July, 2023. Um, they slotted that out. They put Barbie in, obviously Barbie did, you know, huge business. Um, and then they took it off the release schedule entirely until the end of 2023, when they were like, we're going to, we're going to scrap this thing. My point, the point, the argument I made on, on social media, um, and elsewhere was that if they had put, if they, if Warner brothers had put coyote versus Acme in theaters, like three or four weeks ago with a minimal, uh, ad spend, you know, you spend like 30 or $40 million, mostly online, just letting, like trying to let parents know that there is a, there is a movie for families in theaters. Um, this movie would have opened to something would have opened very soft. It would have opened like 15, 16, $17 million. And then it just would have stuck around and kept earning money for two months. Cause there's nothing, there is nothing in theaters for, I w I had, I, again, we're dealing with a three-day weekend. I'm like, what can I do to entertain, get my kids out of the house? It's cold outside. It needs to be an indoor activity. What are we going to do? And, uh, we went to the bowling alley.
Mike00:31:06If you put their lives at risk, I had to get them patted down by Rico.
Sonny00:31:13Uh, but the, uh, the, I would have taken them to see coyote versus acne, even though like, I feel like it's probably a movie that's going to go over the head of my five-year-old. He'll enjoy watching cartoons. Characters get hurt on screen that he likes that sort of thing. Um, but like, and I think there were a lot of, I think there are a lot of it. Look, just look at what migration has done. Migration opened a $10 million or something like that. It passed a hundred. It's done a multiple of 10 or 11, uh, Wonka again, Wonka opened Wonka actually opened decently and it has, but it has kept legs. I mean, it has grossed $200 million domestically. That's a big, that's a huge win for still, it's still in the top five of this past weekend, still in the top five. Cause there's nothing, there's nothing for family. Lays put, if you would put coyote versus Acme in movie theaters last month, it would grow, it would have grossed a hundred million dollars domestically. And there's, I'm sorry. Like, I don't know what sort of fancy Warner brothers math they've got going on, but there's no universe in which they, they make less money by putting this in theaters, getting 200 million worldwide, then putting it on VOD and getting the VOD money and then putting it on HBO max and getting the HBO max. Like there's just, there's no. No way the revenue waterfall doesn't work out in their favor from a $100 million domestic box office. The movie didn't cost that much money. It costs 70 million bucks. Like so spend, spend a little bit on advertising, put it in theaters.
Mike00:32:36So what is going on? Because the bat girl thing at least had some kind of bizarre pandemic associated logic to all of these things.
Sonny00:32:48No, all of these things were all of these, both Pat, both bat girl and coyote versus Acme were movies. That in the rush to create content for HBO max, the bean counters at Warner brothers were like, yes, we'll spend $80 million on a movie. That's going to go straight to streaming. This was always a terrible business plan. Like this was always dumb. They never should have greenlit these movies in the first place. You should not greenlight an $80 million movie that does not have a robust theatrical plan unless you are Netflix and you have more money than God to spend on all of the movies and TV. Shows you want like if you're, if you're a studio there, you have no business spending that sort of money on anything that is not eight to 12 hours long in a TV series or is going, is not going into movie theaters. Like there's just no reason to do it. So anyway, so like then Zaslav comes in and Zaslav like is, he's got all this debt he's got to get rid of. He is, he, he basically looks at, he looks at what I look at and it's like, why the fuck did we spend $80 million on this thing that is going to be on HBO max and that a handful of people are going to watch and then never watch again. And it's just going to sit there. We're going to have to keep paying residuals on it. You know, like why, why is this, why does this exist? Um, so anyway, that, that's the long and the short of it. This is all, all of this is, is a sin born of the, the streaming era rush to create rivers of content.
JVL00:34:19Yep.
Sonny00:34:20All right.
Mike00:34:20Thank you. Uh, shall we move? On to discuss the movie that we, uh, that we, that I guess JVL, you had to see twice or one and a half times. I saw it in halves. Madam web.
Sonny00:34:33Uh, did you only watch, did you, did you try to time it? So you just came back in to watch the second half.
JVL00:34:39I came back in roughly 60 seconds before I had left. I timed it. So when we got up to leave, I looked at my watch to see from, from like the posted time for the show. Then including trailers, pre-roll, et cetera, how long we were going to be. And so I was like, all right, I know exactly when I need to be in here for the next showing of this. And it was great.
Sonny00:35:07Yeah, it worked out perfectly.
Mike00:35:08Well, Sonny, you want to give us a big boy review of madam webb?
Sonny00:35:13Madam webb starring Dakota Johnson as madam webb. She's a show. She's Cassandra Webb, but we don't start. We don't start on Cassandra Webb. We start in the Amazon.
JVL00:35:26Cassandra Webb. Cassandra. Oh, like she sees into the future.
Sonny00:35:31What does Cassandra get turned into?
Mike00:35:34I don't know. That was arachne.
Sonny00:35:37Oh, yeah. Anyway, the point is, all right, so, all right, so. See, now I've totally lost my train of thought. We start in the Amazon. We start in the Amazon before Cassandra Webb is born. She's a fetus in her mother's stomach. And her mother's in the Amazon searching for a spider whose bites can heal. Magic spider. Whose bites can heal. And when she finds the spider, the guy who is there to protect her, the guy who she has hired as security, shoots everyone. Just starts shooting people. He's like, give me that spider. I want the spider because the spider gives powers. And I want the powers. And so he shoots her and takes the spider. And she is saved by a clan of what I can only describe as Targaryens. Tarzan Spider-Men. They're wearing like spider loincloths that look kind of like the Spider-Man costume. But they're natives. And they take her back to their mysterious cave where they let one of the spiders bite her. It doesn't save her. But it does give powers to Cassandra Webb who we smash cut to driving in an ambulance in Queens. And she's driving all around. 30 years later. She's taking Ben Parker, who everyone will know as Spider-Man's uncle. She's driving. Ben Parker around. And she gets in an accident. And then she hits her head. And then she can see the future. She can see the future. She dies for a minute. And then she comes back. And now she has access to web time, I guess. Sure. And as we go along, she starts to get more powers. She can see things. And she can change what happens. And then we see the villain, the guy from the Amazon who now has a gray beard. His beard has been dyed gray because he's older. 30 years older. So it makes sense. And nothing about him makes any sense at all. I don't know how the spider bite turned him into a billionaire. He wants to, his plan, because he's been having the same dream over and over again of three spider women killing him, is to take the vision that he has had of 10 years in the future, have a sketch artist make their faces, run those faces through a de-aging, machine, take the de-aged faces and run it through an NSA program, and the NSA program immediately finds these people in New York City, because that's how science works.
Mike00:38:03In 2003.
Sonny00:38:04That's how 2003 science works. And he says they have to die so he can live. Why it's important that he lives, I don't have any idea, other than he doesn't want to die, which fine. I guess that's fine, whatever, but I need a reason to care about him. I don't care if he lives or dies, whatever, this is a bad villain, because he has no motivation that makes any sense to me, except for like, I don't want to die, well, nobody wants to die, nobody wants to die. Alright, so, Cassie Webb saves the girls with her sight beyond sight, and then takes them to a diner where they dance on a table to Toxic, and then, which is the only 2003 musical cue in this movie, Mike, I don't know, did you pick up on the fact that N. Every musical cue in this movie is from like, 1994, it's like Cranberries, and Four Non Blondes, and Breakfast at Tiffany's.
Mike00:39:02Yeah, which is, that's later, that's like, what, 1998, but no, I agree.
Sonny00:39:05No, it's not, Breakfast at Tiffany's was 90, it was originally, I looked this up, because I wasn't sure, Deep Blue Something, it was originally recorded in 93, and then it was released, re-released at like, the end of 94, the beginning of 95, so anyway, not important, neither here nor there, the point is that- Everything in this movie feels like it's taking place in about 17 different times, like, there's no, there's no unity of any of that. Anyway, she goes back to the Amazon rainforest, where she is met by the guy who saved her, who's now just, like, wearing regular guy clothes, he's not Spider-Loyne, Tarzan, Spider anymore, and this guy gives the inverted, with great power comes great responsibility line reading that Mike alluded to before, and then shoves her into the pool, but like, Doctor Strange-
JVL00:39:53Really, he soul punches her?
Sonny00:39:54Right, no, it's like the Doctor Strange thing, and this is, this is when I realized that what is happening in this movie is actually just magic, it's just, there's no, it's not like Spider-Man, where you get the spider venom in your blood and it turns you into a radioactive Spider-Man, it's just magic, this is just a magic movie, where nothing makes any sense, and he tells her, he tells her, eventually, you're gonna be so good at your spidering, that you'll be able to be in multiple places at once.
JVL00:40:18You're gonna spider so hard.
Sonny00:40:20And, and what I, what I thought- I thought this was a metaphor, I thought it was like, she would see so many steps ahead that she would be able to, like, do moves that would, she'd just be able to, like, do things in sequence and save everybody, and like, I can see seven moves ahead, so I can do this, and then I do this, but no, at the end of the movie, she literally is just, like, astral projecting into all of the places at the same time.
JVL00:40:47How?
Sonny00:40:48How does, how does that work? I get it, doesn't matter, it's just magic. I didn't like this movie very much, and it's incompetent in so many different ways, but the biggest one, the weirdest thing about this movie is that it is very clearly, it's very obvious that they had to re-record every single line of dialogue by the villain. Like, everything, everything in this movie is, everything that the villain says in this movie is ADR, which is the process that they use to re-record dialogue after the fact, to the extent that, like, very frequently, he will be talking, and you won't even see the back of his head, you'll just see the person he's talking to, he'll be talking for like 15 seconds, and a character will be, like, nodding, or shaking their head, like Zosia Mabbitt, who plays the hacker that he hires, just the camera's on her, and she's like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, and I was like, what is, what is happening in this movie?
JVL00:41:44Does he like David Prowse's voice?
Sonny00:41:46And it, and like, and it like, I...
JVL00:41:49Is it actually his voice doing the ADR?
Sonny00:41:52And that's, that's...
JVL00:41:53That's a good question.
Sonny00:41:53The other question, it's, it, it's, the, the ADR is so extensive that I almost wonder if, like, somebody watched this movie and was like, I can't understand anything he's
JVL00:42:01Tahar Rahim. Yeah, he's French.
Sonny00:42:03I don't understand anything Tahar is saying. So. The biggest sin of this movie, the biggest sin of this movie is that all of the ads for it kind of teased these three Spider-Women. You got Sidney Sweeney as a Spider-Woman, you got these two other girls as Spider-Women, and they're gonna be doing Spider-Women things, and we got a, we got Madame Webb, and she's got her Madame Webb costume that is on the posters and stuff, and, like, it's, you know, none of that happens. None of, there are, there are no super heroics in this movie, really. Like, there's a 15-second flash forward at the very beginning of the film where we see the three Spider-Women murdering this guy, and that's it. That's, that's it for the whole, that's it for the whole movie. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it's a superhero movie without any actual superheroes in it. Until the very end when she does the astral projection thing. I, I don't understand, I don't understand what Sony is doing with these movies. They've now made four Spider-Verse films, the two Venom movies, Morbius and Madame Webb. These characters only make sense in relation to Spider-Man. They only make sense in, in their antagonism, mostly, sometimes team up with, but, like, mostly the antagonist. The antagonism that they have with Spider-Man. That's the only universe in which these characters make sense. And Spider-Man has appeared zero times in any of these movies. He shows up right at the end of, uh, Venom, uh, Maximum Carnage or whatever that, that was, Let There Be Carnage, uh, in a post-credits scene on a TV and Venom's like, ah, I know that guy from the multiverse that I've traveled through because I'm Venom and my, the symbiote has been everywhere.
Mike00:43:50I, like, I don't... No, he doesn't. Yes, he does. No, he doesn't. We don't even see the baby.
Sonny00:43:59We don't even see baby Peter Parker.
Mike00:44:01Oh, we don't? Okay.
Sonny00:44:02Also, the funniest read of that whole sequence. So, like, I'm sorry, I'm rambling now, but the, but the funniest read, so, like, there's a subplot where Ben Parker is with, uh, Mary Parker, who...
Mike00:44:13His sister-in-law.
Sonny00:44:14His sister-in-law, who he, uh, has to drive to the hospital because her husband is gallivanting about China or something. And I, like, it felt a little bit like the, the, the insinuation here is that Ben Parker isn't Peter Parker's uncle, if you catch my drift. Catch my drift.
Mike00:44:36Talk about great responsibility.
Sonny00:44:38Wasn't 100% sure. Not, uh, not entirely clear if he's the, if he's the sister.
JVL00:44:44I was not picking up on that at all.
Sonny00:44:47All right. He's, he's the one who's there. He's the Parker who's there. I don't know.
Mike00:44:53Yeah. Well, so anyway, that's, uh, that's so, so hold on before we move on to JVL. I do have to, I have to fact check you here a little bit, Sonny, on the, on the music because there were a couple of, cause when you said that, I said, but there were, there was one more than one or two more than toxic. And I looked at the soundtrack. There's a yeah, yeah, yeah. Song that plays at some point. I remember hearing that. And then there's scandalous by mystique, which is definitely of the time, uh, uh, 2003. So, um, but, but, but I will, I will concede the, uh, there, there were a bunch of, there was like, there was like a, an eighties song in it at one point in the, in the, uh, like a eighties cover of something. Anyway, uh, didn't make any sense. JVL. What did you think of Madam wet? Loved it.
Guest00:45:46I, I loved it.
JVL00:45:48It was, uh, look, love is too strong. Is it the best? Marvel movies since no way home. Absolutely. I'm not counting across the spider verse because while a it's animated and B it's not even tangentially part of the MCU. Um, I, I liked almost everything about this. Um, the, the final five minutes, which are not, which are really after the movie ends the, the story ends with her Dakota Johnson and the three girls defeating dark Spider-Man. Uh, that's when the movie should have won, should have ended. But instead we get this five minute Coda, which feels like a studio note. Uh, that, that entire thing feels like it's the product of reshoots and that doesn't work. And there are a couple of other things that don't really work about it, but on the whole, it's pretty great. Uh, it's funny watching Dakota Johnson be annoyed at the world. Cause I think she's a great comedic talent. I just, I just think Dakota Johnson's great. Uh, I loved her on Saturday Night Live, loved her in Persuasion. Uh, I love her all throughout this movie. I know she fired what her manager, her agent after her finishing filming this. And so clearly she does not like it. Did you see that line? You sent me that Sonny. Somebody, somebody's asked her.
Sonny00:47:10Yeah, no, she definitely fired her, fired her agent.
JVL00:47:13Somebody asked her about, uh, you know, like, Oh, you know, what was it like working with those three great young actresses and her, her response to something like, yeah, they got to bond, which was nice. And then, you know, there was me. I just love it. Cause she's, you know, been around. I think she's a, she's a wonderful presence and she's great throughout this. And the story is pretty good. I really liked the story. She's got this power, which is not like super useful. Uh, it is thematically coherent. I mean, when the movie begins in the Amazon with this month, this woman who is nine months pregnant and you're thinking to yourself, okay, this is already ludicrous, what is this woman doing here in the Amazon schlepping around? And she says something like, uh, I'm not gonna let this baby stop me from doing what I have to. Something real, which just all of a sudden I was like, boy, this woman is a terrible mother. And we get to Dakota Johnson and her thing is kind of that. She's made it to, you know, you can tell she's been through therapy. She grew up in the foster system. She's a paramedic, but she really hates her mom. And she, she, she, she liked the audience says, what the fuck were you doing in the Amazon when you were nine months pregnant, how fucking irresponsible could you be and the thematic element of this has, when she is soul punched and goes back to sort of see not into the future, but into the past, right, which is the opposite of what she can do, uh, that the reason her mother was down there was because her child was diagnosed with. Disorder that meant that she was going to die shortly after, after being born. And her mother also did not accept the future as given to her through this prophecy, and that's why she went to the Amazon to find the spider, which could say, cause she was already a biochemist or whatever, but the point is thematically. This all works really well. Her mother was doing the same thing that Dakota Johnson's powers are right. She was seeing a future. And then taking action to avert that future and do something different. And Dakota Johnson only accesses her powers of being able to fully see the future by taking herself all the way back and be able to see the past and understand that I think that all works thematically. And it's, it's quite beautiful. And I effing loved the villain because we love Spider-Man, right? Everybody loves Spider-Man and he's quippy and he makes jokes and he's sweet and some times he stammers and he really likes MJ and will they, or won't they, but this is like, okay, somebody said, what if, uh, what if Spider-Man had Bruce Wayne's money and it was really fucking evil and it would be terrifying, right? He would be a terrifying, terrifying villain. Sure. And, uh, it's really nice to see all of that Spider-Man stuff done in the service of like you were a villain with Bruce Wayne money. I thought it was great. I liked almost everything about it. The one thing I didn't like, the one thing I didn't like is that there, and I think it was a real missed opportunity. The character of Cassie should have saved Mary Parker's life. That should have been what she kind of sort of does a little bit, but there, there, that should have been written in a very clear way in the script. Because the only reason to set this movie in 2003 is so that we can know that she is responsible for Spider-Man being born. And the fact that she, the most consequential thing she does, then she does, uh, without knowing it, right. Is again, another nice little thematic nod to, yeah, it's super powerful to be able to see the future, but also you wind up doing super important things for the future without even knowing or realizing it. And so this was a missed moment, right? We should, the only reason to be there is so that she can be present. In or around the birth of Peter Parker. That's why she has been Parker's buddy and they should have, they should have connected those two dots.
Sonny00:51:31Otherwise it was great.
JVL00:51:33Hmm. Dory the Explorer. And now let me say, let me say one more thing. Oh yeah. The special effects that they did with Sidney Sweeney in this were unbelievable because if you were to just look at some of the stills from the movie and look at some of the stills from Sidney Sweeney's other work, you would not be able to guess that they had not done some incredible like CGI type stuff to her to make her look like a 14 year old. I'm just saying it's, it's like a feat of structural engineering. I don't know how they did it, but it was Jim's Cameron.
Mike00:52:15That's the movie magic.
JVL00:52:16And thought, wow.
Sonny00:52:18I think it's just baggy clothes. That's.
JVL00:52:20That is. I didn't think baggy clothes had that much power. Also, Dora the Explorer was in it. Did you catch that?
Mike00:52:27I never saw that.
JVL00:52:28Do you remember the Sub-Beacon episode where we did Dora the Explorer? That was a classic. Well, that girl who played sexy tween Dora the Explorer is the third girl.
Sonny00:52:38Oh, is that her? Yeah.
JVL00:52:39All right. I don't understand. This is, and audiences hated this. It's got like a C plus cinema score. And I don't, I honestly looking at this, I can't, I cannot for the life of me understand why people didn't enjoy it. Because it's.
Sonny00:52:52Bad?
JVL00:52:53I think they went in thinking something different. No, I, so I, so Sonny, you began your thing.
Sonny00:52:58I went, I went, I went, wait, wait, before you, before you, I went, I, you say you like this guy has a Spider-Man villain, right? This guy has like spider villain. What exactly is the nature of his villainy? Is he out there robbing banks? Is he out there? Like, what is he like? How did he, how is he using, how is he using his powers to, to do crimes? And why aren't people talking about this? Spider-Man villain ever? Like, I don't understand. There's nothing.
JVL00:53:27He used his powers to get wealthy. That's how he's living this. Yeah, we don't, he's got unnaturally long life. This is the other thing, right? This is why he's barely aged at all in 30 years. He's barely aged at all.
Sonny00:53:41Unnaturally long life. I could live to be a hundred. No, it's like vampire. Not, not be a billionaire in New York city.
JVL00:53:48If you could, if you were able to steal a bunch of stuff early, uh, because you were so strong and powerful and then consolidate that and they just park it on 4% interest for, for two decades, you, do you be, and what is his motivation? His motivation is that he's haunted by this. That's not that much money. That's not that much. You're ridiculous.
Sonny00:54:08This is ridiculous. He, like, I, again, like.
Mike00:54:10He went in with George Soros on Black Tuesday. That's what happened.
Sonny00:54:14If there, if, if there was, if like the, if he had the power of sight beyond sight and was using that to like make stock bets or something like, okay.
JVL00:54:22Bitcoin. It was. He taught him to buy Bitcoin very early.
Sonny00:54:24There's no Bitcoin yet.
JVL00:54:26I, I don't know what to tell you, man. I thought it was great. The only thing I can think of is, so you began your critique of the movie, Sonny. We'll get to you in a minute, Michael. I'm sorry. Oh, please. You began your critique by critiquing the advertising campaign. Now, I did not sing a single blessed ad for this thing. I don't even know if I saw the trailer before I went to it. So it is possible that the reason it has a C plus is because people are, told to expect something very different from the ad campaign than what they got, which was essentially a comedy, right? With some like some light action in it, right? It's, it's much more comic than anything else.
Sonny00:55:08It's not funny. It's not funny. I laughed all the way through. It's not, it's, I sat there stone-faced.
JVL00:55:15I believe that.
Sonny00:55:16I was, I was, I was so, I was so bored. And at first I thought.
JVL00:55:20Dakota Johnson is a delight.
Sonny00:55:21How could you? She's not, she's really not. She's a, she's a, she is a, God, what's the, how do I say this about something horribly sexist? She is a smug, too good for what she's doing. Don't care for, don't care for her attitude. Hard disagree. I think she's a, I think she's a, I think she's a real. Hard disagree. I think she's a real.
Mike00:55:45JVL, what do you think about the fact that she's a nepo baby?
JVL00:55:48I, you know what I thought? I thought to myself, am I supposed to? Because I initially was entirely surprised by how much I liked Dakota, Dakota Johnson. And then I thought, why am I surprised that I found her charming? Don Johnson was like one of the most charming guys in television for a decade. Like, why is it crazy that, of course, his, his actress daughter, Millie Griffith, pretty good actress, right? It was a lot of really fun screen presence. Yeah. Does it surprise me that their kid turns out to be pretty charming and delightful screen presence? No, not really.
Mike00:56:20Yeah.
?00:56:21Yeah.
JVL00:56:22What did you think? Michael, if you like Dargoyle and didn't like this, I'm going to lose my mind.
Mike00:56:29I was, I was among those who watched the trailer and was very disappointed that the line, he was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders right before she died, wasn't actually in the movie, which is kind of a disappointment. That was like the big line from the trailer that was like, so exposition heavy. So I do think the internet turned against this movie. Like from, from the word go. And I think that does have something to do with ma'am. Did they say that? I don't know. Okay. So here's where I, here's where I fall on this. Spiritually. I am with you JVL, but if you press me on it, I'm with, I'm with Sonny on this. So I liked the idea of this plot. I, I was fascinated. I was fascinated with this concept, like the way they were using this power that she had of, it's not clairvoyance. It's like, yeah, I guess it, I don't know what it is. It's like, yeah. Seeing the future, feeling like it's happening to her. Right. Like, that's the thing about it. She, she, she's like going through this as if it's happening. And then she sort of gets like pulled back to some point in the recent past and is now give, like, I thought this was a great device. To be able to explore in a superhero movie. And I did find, I did find the chemistry with the three girls and Dakota Johnson. That was pretty good. Actually, like you, like, I thought that was, that was all right. On the other hand, the execution of it was, was just not good. Like, I totally, I totally agree with Sonny on the villain. Like, he, he sucked. He, I couldn't, like, what accent did he have? Was it, was it French? Peruvian. Was it Peruvian? Peruvian. I guess, but it like fell out.
Sonny00:58:32He's from, he's from Peru. He's heard the legend of the Anaranas.
Mike00:58:36Anaranas. I was, I was also confused why Anaranas guy, like about what age he was. Because like we, we, we jump up to 2003. A naturally long life. And we see, but, but, but then. Confusing my simple brain. Then it shows him having this vision where he's got gray hair everywhere. And I'm like, wait, so is this like tomorrow that he's envisioning this? Or is this like 20 years from now? 20 more years. I guess. But then I was like, well, but Sydney Sweeney looks like the age that she is now. So there's no way that, that like, that's well in the vision she does.
Sonny00:59:19Once again, the vision where he, he. He draws their faces with, and then he's like, but what would they look like without masks? Oh, like this. And then they run that through the de-aging machine and then they put it, they just feed it into the NSA computer.
Mike00:59:37Also, also the whole thing, the whole thing with his hand that can inject the venom. Like I could have used something that, that showed me how it works instead of just like grabbing a girlfriend that he. How does climbing on the wall work? Uh, I don't know. No, no. Yeah. Remember when Peter Parker and the first Spider-Man, the same thing's come out.
JVL01:00:04No, they had him running around barefoot when they were in the, in grand central, which is cool. Answer me this. Okay. Answer me this. You don't have to like it. All right. That's fine. You don't want, if you don't want to like it, let's, let's, let's just start walking back. Was this worse than the Marvels?
Mike01:00:22So. Well, this is, this is what I'm going to say. You've, you've, you've anticipated my point, which is I don't understand the hate for this movie in particular.
JVL01:00:32Yes.
Mike01:00:32Because it's just as dumb as any of the number of these superhero movies. Let me just go through. It's not way better.
Sonny01:00:41The Marvels, the Marvels is terrible. I wrote that.
Mike01:00:44I agree that it's it, but it's no worse than the Marvels. And I feel like we, I feel like the, the hatred.
Sonny01:00:52I mean, I agree. I gave both. I trashed both of these movies pretty hard.
Mike01:00:55I'm not going after you, Sonny. I'm not going after you. I am not going after you. You'll know what I'm going after you, Sonny. You'll know.
Sonny01:01:03I'm going to bring the honor to us, to your house. I'm going to eat your brains.
JVL01:01:07The Marvels, Guardians of the Galaxy, Volume 3, Ant-Man, Quantumania, Black Panther, Wakanda Forever, Thor, Love and Thunder, Doctor Strange, Multiverse of Madness, Eternals, Shang-Chi, Black Widow. This is better than every single one of them. No, it's not. No, it isn't. It's not even close.
Sonny01:01:27It's not better than Black Widow. It's not better than Shang-Chi. It's not better than Guardians of the Galaxy, Volume 3.
JVL01:01:32And Guardians of the Galaxy, Volume 3 is garbage.
Sonny01:01:35Even Wakanda Forever is probably better than this, but I don't like that movie very much either.
Mike01:01:40No, but Madam Web is as good or maybe, I will say, Madam Web is on par with Quantumania and Multiverse of Madness. It's bad, but it's not any worse than any of the others. So what are we complaining about? And I feel like it is, this goes back to my point, which is I feel like the internet decided at some point that this was a movie that they were going to hate. And because of the clunky promotional materials. Because there's strong women in it. That's why. Yes, exactly. Exactly. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Because there's-
JVL01:02:21I only said that to drive Sonny Bunch.
Mike01:02:22They're attacking this poor woman, Dakota Johnson, who's brought herself up by her own bootstraps, went through three Fifty Shades of Grey movies, you know, and like made her way up the ladder and they're just trying to tear her down. Can I say, though, that I was so sick of her stupid fucking jacket that she wore throughout this movie. Like this, the long- Leather. I hated it. Red leather. I was like, don't you have any- Any other clothes in that stupid jacket? Anyway, that's my other thought.
Sonny01:02:55Between, look, between Madam Web and the Marvels and the Eternals, we're going to have to start having conversation about whether or not women should be allowed to direct these movies anymore. That's like, it's just, it's not working out. We gave it a fair shot. We gave it an honest effort. Not working out.
Mike01:03:16Well, isn't the bigger problem with this director is she's never directed a movie before. She's a TV director.
Sonny01:03:21She's a TV director. She's very clearly a TV director. I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing approaching an interesting visual sequence in this movie. I mean, it's... It's a good movie. It's a good movie. People should see it. It's a bad movie by every reasonable metric, but the...
JVL01:03:37I just explained to you in detail why it's good.
Sonny01:03:39But the, I just think it's hilarious that you think this movie is better than Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3, which is an insane opinion. That's an insane opinion.
JVL01:03:49Nobody likes Guardians 3. It's a weird animal. It's a good movie. Animal torture porn movie.
Sonny01:03:53Great movie. Great movie with winning performances.
Mike01:03:58Great movie. Let's run back to the tape on what you said on that show.
Sonny01:04:00Unlike, unlike this movie, which is a garbage movie filled with idiot actors who suck. And then like Doctor Strange 2 is, is a movie that I, I have a soft spot for because it like actually felt modestly like a Sam Raimi movie. And we haven't had one of those in 10 years. And I was like, I like this. I like the vibes of this movie. That's a movie G money would not care for because it's scary. That's a scary, that's a scary, you know, thing. There's, there's the horror elements there. I understand that. But like, uh, I, I, I don't see how you could say this movie is better than Shang-Chi, which is again, a very charming, uh, origin type movie with some good, some actual good action sequences. You know what I want from an action comic book movie? Action sequences. Oh, I'm sorry.
JVL01:04:52Didn't deliver in your lowbrow desire for, Oh no, you know what?
Sonny01:04:55This is the same Sonny who loved Aquaman. There's a giant, there's a giant us falling. I better send all my astral projections out to save everybody.
Mike01:05:04Can I make another complaint here about this movie, which is that the, the Pepsi product placement was out of control.
Sonny01:05:11I mean, I mean, it was, I mean, literally gutter soda, a gutter soda for a gutter movie. It is, this is the sort of movie where if, if a waitress came up to you and asked, did Pepsi? Okay. You say yes. Cause I love Pepsi. I prefer Pepsi to Coke. Who would want Coke? I want Pepsi. Sicko. This is a movie for sickos.
JVL01:05:31You know, when I go into a restaurant, I always order diet Pepsi, never a diet Coke. And when they say is diet Coke. Okay. I say, no, thanks.
Sonny01:05:40You're one of those people. I did. It's all coming together. It's all coming together.
Mike01:05:43I did like the, the sort of corporate synergy with having, uh, the, a, uh, a Britney Spears song, one of the most famous spokespeople for Pepsi. Uh, uh, play at the, uh, pivotal scene.
Sonny01:05:54Um, I'm convinced, I'm convinced that whole sequence was 80 yard in after the fact I'm convinced I'm 100% certain that this movie was originally set in 1993 or 1995 and they had to like add in a musical number with this. Cause you got the girls dancing on the table. Originally it was probably like salt and pepper or something. Yeah. Originally it was like, originally it was like TLC's waterfalls and like, instead it's,
JVL01:06:20you know, uh, fits that scene.
Sonny01:06:22So well though, you could put anything you could, girls will dance to any dumb song. They're idiots. Teenage girls, morons. So one reason I'm, I'm surprised this movie didn't pull better. Cause it filled with, it attracted an audience of did, did, did, by the way, did you guys
Mike01:06:39recognize Mike Epps? Cause I did not like when I saw his name.
Sonny01:06:44No, I didn't. I didn't.
Mike01:06:45Yeah. But when I saw his name on the credits, I was like, Mike Epps.
Sonny01:06:48I was like, who was, I saw his name on the credits and I was like, oh yeah, that's my guess. No. Yeah. It took me a second.
Mike01:06:53And then Emma Roberts plays, uh, plays, uh, plays Peter Parker's Emma Roberts, all grown up. Yeah. That's right.
Sonny01:06:59Ben Parker's love interest. Yeah.
Mike01:07:03Um, I did like, there was one more little like wink and nod to all that stuff, which was when Cassie and Ben Parker are talking and he's like, I've, he's like, I'm, I met someone and she's like, oh, what's her name? And he's like, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna tell you. And it's like, oh, that must be aunt may. Hmm.
Sonny01:07:28They also do that with Peter. Yeah. They do the same with Peter. They don't say his name.
Mike01:07:31Yeah. It was like weird to, to like signpost it, but then don't like, you don't, they kind of, they kind of edge, they kind of edged us. They kind of edge us.
JVL01:07:40They didn't want you to feel like you had to, they had to draw you a map. They were had, this is a movie that is, that is confident enough to let people figure out
Sonny01:07:49what's going on. You know who he's talking about? No, he's talking about, he's talking about aunt may. He's talking about, he's talking about aunt may.
Mike01:07:56That's Peter Parker because.
Sonny01:07:57He's talking about aunt may. Because. That's Ben Parker. He's the great responsibility guy. I bet he's gonna, I bet he's gonna say it. Say the line. Say the line, Ben Parker. Say the line.
JVL01:08:06I am sorry.
Sonny01:08:07This is actually, this is actually what the whole, I'm going to take a very hard left turn here. And this is what the whole movie, the zone of interest reminds me of. So like the zone of interest is set. What? The zone, the zone of interest is set in, in Auschwitz, but not in Germany. It's not in Auschwitz, like just outside of Auschwitz. And you never actually see any of the Holocaust happening. It's all like people's reactions to it and stuff. But there are like, there's like a sequence where representatives from Siemens, you know, the German manufacturing company come to the, to, to the camp to talk to Rudolph Hess. And like, and, and like, I just imagined while I was sitting there watching it, like, are there like, are there like Holocaust nerds? Like there are comic book nerds who like elbow their friend, like Siemens, you know, that company. They're still around. They helped build the crematoria at the Holocaust, but there's still, it's still a going concern. Like, that's what that movie felt like. And that's what I felt like the entire time here. This movie is the zone of interest of, of comic book movies.
Mike01:09:05Academy Award nominated.
Sonny01:09:07On the Blu-ray poster, on the Blu-ray cover. The zone of interest of Spider-Man extended universe movies.
Mike01:09:14No one's going to stop that. All right. I think that is all the time we're going to give to this. That crappy, but fun movie. I had a good time. I had a good time watching it. Thank you.
Sonny01:09:26I was so bored. Thank you. I was so bored. I like wanted to have a good time. I wanted to have a good time with like the Spider-Man Tarzan guys. I was like, this could be a weird, fun movie. And then it's just boring. And then it was boring for like an hour and a half after that.
Mike01:09:43Well, you seem to be having a good time trashing this movie. I still enjoyed it. But we're going to, that's, that's where we're going to have to cut it off there. So thank you for listening. Go to subbeacon.com. Check us out there and we will talk to you next time. Now that is a good theory, by the way, about did they want to set this at a different time? Because I was trying to figure out which, which Peter Parker is this is supposed to be in this universe.
Sonny01:10:18Well, so, so there was a, there was a story that, well, so there was a story about a story. It doesn't make any sense. No, because 2003 doesn't make it.
Mike01:10:25That's like almost, that's, that's like eight or 10 years after he was born.
Sonny01:10:30Because so Spider-Man homecoming, I think takes place in 2015 or 2016. So he would be 13.
JVL01:10:37It's about right. It's not far. No, it's not. No, no, no, no, no. It's not. He's like a high school freshman. I'm coming.
Sonny01:10:43He's not a high school freshman. He's like a, he's, he's going to, no, he's like a get ready to go to college or something. Yeah. He's got like, he's got, yeah, he's got like, am I?
JVL01:10:52It's not until that's, that's far from home or the, sorry, that's no way home. That's, that's no way home homecoming. He's, he's a freshman or a sophomore.
Sonny01:11:02Okay. Well, so, so there was a, there was a theory. So there was a guy reported and who knows how true this is. One of the, one of the gossip sites that originally it was set in 93 or 94 or something. And they were, it was going to be the, um, uh, the previous one, the Andrew Garfield Garfield, Spider-Man universe. But then they were like, wait, this doesn't work. We got to change it to the Tom Holland one for reasons.
JVL01:11:31But they're never going to explain the music cues.
Sonny01:11:34It would explain the music cues.
Mike01:11:35But they're never, they're never going to put, they're never going to put Spider-Man in these movies, right? Because, or, or will they do that?
JVL01:11:43I don't think I'm happy. Just hang with Madam Web, frankly.
Sonny01:11:48They're never gonna, they're never going to put Spider-Man in these movies because they're never making it. They're never making any more of these goddamn movies. But they're, they're, when Craven bombs, when Craven the Hunter, the R-rated Aaron Taylor Johnson, Craven the Hunter bombs in four months or whatever, that movie is supposed to come out. And that's in this universe? Yes. This is all, this is all coming to an end. This whole, this whole experiment is finished.
Mike01:12:09What is the Fantastic Four movie? What universe is that in? Is that in the X-Men? That's in the MCU. That's in the MCU? Have they even got a trailer for Craven yet?
Sonny01:12:19Yeah.
Mike01:12:21But Deadpool is still in the X-Men universe.
Sonny01:12:25Well, he's moving over to the MCU as well because this is, so 20th Century Fox owned X-Men and Fantastic Four rights, which was purchased by Disney. So they're, that all, all that's coming in.
JVL01:12:38I'm sure. I just hope that Disney doesn't go shoving their, their woke politics into the X-Men stories.
Mike01:12:46Yeah. I'm sure that'll be fine.
JVL01:12:50And that's a, that's a joke. Yeah, I know. I got it.
Mike01:12:54Woke politics. I get it. That is what X-Men is. Always.
Sonny01:12:59We're still recording. I'm just going to let this keep going.
Mike01:13:00We're still going? Okay. Just drag it out a little bit longer, Sonny.
Sonny01:13:04I'm sure it's fine.
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