#220. 'A Murder at the End of the World'
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The main event is the first three episodes of A Murder at the End of the World (FX on Hulu), Brit Marling and Zal Batmanglij's Agatha Christie-meets-AI-thriller starring Emma Corrin as hacker/true-crime author Darby Hart, Clive Owen as reclusive tech billionaire Andy Ronson, and Harris Dickinson as her doomed ex Bill — and all three hosts are largely smitten. JVL loves it without reservation, calling Darby Hart a rare genuinely original detective character (in the lineage of Jack Reacher) and the show "what Knives Out would be if Knives Out was good," and singles out Emma Corrin's subtle lead performance and an early, dialogue-light Eurythmics-scored car scene as proof the show's atmospherics are earned rather than padding. Mike is equally enthusiastic, watching along with his wife and comparing Darby to Lisbeth Salander of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo books, and he specifically praises the flashback sequences — especially a wordless scene of Darby and Bill's online courtship — that Sonny openly doesn't share his enthusiasm for; Sonny likes the show overall but says he's only there for the present-day Iceland mystery and simmering AI paranoia (is the couple's precocious kid secretly a robot?), copping to a general allergy to true-crime content. All three relish having Clive Owen back on screen and detour into his mid-2000s run (Children of Men, Inside Man, Sin City, King Arthur), and they speculate at length about whether other retreat guests are secretly "alternative intelligences." The episode opens with a long stretch of banter before the review even starts: JVL recounts interviewing journalist David Grann for another podcast, complete with an extended Michael-Jordan-doing-TPS-reports metaphor for Grann's hidden talent, and marvels resentfully at Brit Marling's absurd résumé (Georgetown valedictorian, Goldman Sachs, a Johns Hopkins M.D.); Sonny rants about a dumb IndieWire piece claiming Oppenheimer's VOD/4K success disproves theatrical windowing, then digresses into Amazon Prime Video's new ad tier and the collapsing online advertising market; and the trio spends a solid stretch on condiments — a Sriracha shortage, the supremacy of Heinz over Hunt's ketchup, Chick-fil-A's proprietary sauce, and the history of McDonald's switch to made-to-order burgers. They close things out, as they periodically do, with an extended riff on the word "cunt" and how much more comfortably the Brits deploy it than Americans do.
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Full transcript
Guest00:00:00The first life that a serial killer takes it tends to be someone he knows. That's how he gets a taste for it. Hello Darby, aren't you going to invite me in?
Mike00:00:28Welcome back to the Sub-Beacon podcast. I am your co-host Mike Warren. I am joined as always by my two co-hosts who prefer the term alternative intelligence, Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Join us over at Sub-Beacon.com where you can become a patron. Comment, get those episodes every Friday morning. First thing on Friday morning when you become a patron over at Sub-Beacon.com. Join the comments, become a part of the Sub-Beacon community. It's a lot of fun over at Sub-Beacon.com and tell a friend. We'll be talking about a murder at the end of the world later on in this episode. But first, JVL, what is going on with you, my man?
JVL00:01:18I want to jump right in and talk not about a murder at the end of the world, but about Marling. The Brit Marling is the director of a murder at the end of the world and the
Sonny00:01:35showrunner. She's the creator, showrunner, creator, showrunner, right? The co-writer
JVL00:01:40and also an actress. She looks like a slightly hotter Captain Marvel. Bold. She bold went where she graduated as valedictorian, then went to work for Goldman Sachs before deciding that she really wanted to follow her passion for film. And I am sorry, but you can't fucking have all the things she can have it all. Did did she also decide to, like, hit medical school and law school on her way through like that? No, no. She actually got her M.D. from Johns Hopkins. That is too much. Not fair. I don't like it. I know. No, no, no, no, no.
Mike00:02:43So I was kind of expecting when the credits would roll at the end of these episodes for it because she's all over. Right. It's like to be like, you know, starring, created by, directed by, produced by, you know, like it. Right. She's she she is like kind of all over this thing. And I've never heard of her. Before we started watching the show for for our show. And I guess what what has she done before? Because she did. I looked her up. She did like a Netflix series that everybody loved. I've never seen it. Never heard of it.
Sonny00:03:15So she she made the show called The O.A. or the O.A. I forget exactly said the O.A. is a Green Lantern show. Yeah, well, that's what that's what this that's what the show is. Was it really? That's what it was called. No, no, no. Right. So she so that show was critically acclaimed, but not well watched, which is why it only lasted two seasons. And it was when you say everybody loved it. That's that's a stretch. It was it was much like by the chattering classes and by critics. But it was not it was not well liked. I frankly didn't care for it. I watched a couple episodes and turned it off. Wasn't wasn't my bag. She's interesting. I don't I forget what what movie is it that she has done that
Mike00:04:02I kind of like. I don't know. I never heard of her. I'd never heard of her because like everything about the show and like when you look at it's like the her name was thrown about as if it was somebody I should know, like, you know, like for instance, Greta
Sonny00:04:20Gerwig, the sound of my voice. That's what that's what sound of my voice. What is that? It's a it's an indie thing about. Oh, OK. So she's like an indie darling. Yeah, she's she's she's an indie person. Got it. She's an indie. She's an indie individual. I don't OK. All right. Well, I mean, I just I did not realize that she was she went to Georgetown
JVL00:04:42though. I did not. I did not. Yeah, that was a I and I would like to say that I would not carry resentment against her if she was either a bad actress or a bad director or a bad writer. My my seething resentment is because she is very good at all three of those things. So in addition to being Little Miss Hoya, top of her class and beautiful and Goldman
Mike00:05:09Sachs, like right now. OK, so JVL, JVL, I have to I have to. You have to resolve something for me here, because ever since I've known you, one I think one thing that you've done one principle of yours is that it is it is wrong for people who sort of rise to the top or even out to the top, but like to the to the upper middle on on lack of talent like that. That's bad, right? This is a bad element of our society that somehow these people sometimes float to the top and we should be mad at them for that. And I don't disagree with you on this. How can you also. be mad at someone who is hyper-competent and it's achieving.
Sonny00:05:58Oh, wait, can I can I handle that? Can I handle this? Because because I can I know exactly where JBL is coming from. It's two different kinds of mad. The first is about is about, you know, anger at the society that we have created. It's it's it's anger at the system. The second anger is more of a cosmic anger, an anger at the injustice that goes along with the allocation. Of God given talent to individuals like some people can have it all. She probably sleeps like two hours a night. She's probably one of those people. She probably like, she probably sleeps like two hours a night and the rest of her time she's reading or like doing maths and like writing her show.
Mike00:06:43Something like that. So I should, I should have done, you have a PhD in JV ology, so
Sonny00:06:48I should have, I mean, that's just, I, well, this is, this is something I think all of us share on some level. We, we all, we all. All, all, all. I don't just mean the three of us. I mean, all people on a certain level, all people have resentment against the system and they hate God for making other people better than them. Those are, those are the two universal truths.
JVL00:07:10So I want to share, I want to, I want to share something that I was very pleased with myself for coming up with. I, for another podcast, got to interview David Graham today. Oh, David Graham, who, uh, who I. Believe is the best living nonfiction writer in America. And I don't think it's particularly close. Okay. And I was trying to explain to the audience who David Graham was and where he came from. And when I met David, uh, through pickup basketball, funnily enough, um, he, I was at the weekly standard and he was at the new Republic and at the new Republic, he was writing like 1500 word politics stories about Capitol Hill. And like, they were, they were very good 1500 word politics stories about Capitol Hill, but they were just politics stories. Oh, right. And then he left the new Republic and he went to the New Yorker and I didn't understand it. Like I didn't understand, I don't know. Why is David Remnick hiring David Graham to go like the, none of the, and why is David Graham going to the New Yorker when his next step should be like the New York times or, you know, reporting desk or something anyway. And, uh, like a year passes and David finally publishes a piece for them and it is a 25 or 30,000 word piece about the hunt for it to find a live giant squid, which is a thing which had never happened before. Right. And it's seeing this, the analogy I tried to make was like, imagine, you know, 1500 word politics stories. This is something that all of us do. Right. And it's like having an office job and you've got this guy, Mike at the desk next to you. And Mike's a great guy and he's good at his job and he, you know, he files his TPS reports just like you do. And then one day Mike says, you know, I kind of always wanted to try basketball. I'm going to go join the NBA. And this guy, Michael Jordan turns out to be the greatest basketball player in the history of like, what the fuck was he doing? Sitting in your office doing TPS reports. And that is David Grant. Like this guy who was the great. Non-fiction reporter of our time was just like sitting, doing the same kind of jerk
Mike00:09:29off pieces we were all doing, but see, I, I actually think those, those jerk off pieces, as you call them, like they, they are, they are a foundation, right. A foundation in terms of, uh, you know, from a reporting standpoint, you know, which is what I do is, you know, it's all the same muscles, you know, uh, that you're, that you're working out there. It's, you're, you're doing it on a grander scale. Oh, and then throw in some, you know, incredible talent to be able to, to, to scale it up to, you know, a New Yorker features.
Sonny00:10:08That's not, that's not, that's not, I, I, I don't think that's right exactly because I do think there's, there's a fundamental difference between writing a process Capitol Hill story or writing a standard campaign story.
JVL00:10:24Or a profile, right?
Sonny00:10:25Or a profile, or, so I would, I would take these in steps. There's a difference between writing a standard campaign story and a, to put it in, in the parlance of the weekly standard, you know, so the way the weekly standard was broken down, you had short, short reported pieces at the front of the book called the log. Then you had big, longer reported pieces in the middle written by like Matt Labash, that sort of guy called the well. And then you had the back of the book, but like the, I would argue that there is a real difference between like a good log piece and a good well piece. There was, there was a, there's, they are not the same muscle and like reporting is the foundation of all of this, but it is, it's, it's a, you, you have to make a leap to get to that one, to, to the next thing. And I, I think there's a huge difference between, uh, between writing, you know, the, the standard 1200 word, um, here's what's happening on Capitol Hill with this piece of legislation this week. Story versus the, like, I get like a David grand style lost city of Z.
JVL00:11:29I'm going to go to the Amazon for three months and hike into the Amazon.
Mike00:11:33But I think maybe, maybe I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't clear about what I meant when I said that, which was because I agree with you and, and, and the, in the, the sort of categorical differences, my, what I was alluding to is, um, you know, everybody and anybody, anybody who wants to be successful in, say in sports. And professional sports needs to be doing, uh, pushups and sit-ups and lifting weights and, and, and running and, and doing all of those things. And anybody can do those things. They are the foundation for being a professional athlete. And so I would say that David grand doing those stories at the new Republic is, um, is, is, is cross training, you know, is, is sort of being him at the gym.
JVL00:12:20And then where he was before TNR, where's that?
Sonny00:12:23He'll yeah, that sounds about right. No, no. I mean, that's, that's like a logical, a logical progression of the hill to the new Republic to, as you say, like the New York times, the Washington post or the Washington post or like the Atlantic, you know, like those are that that's a more there.
JVL00:12:40I mean, not the Atlantic back in two, like 1998 though. Right. The 1998 Atlantic was just a monthly magazine of long form. It was not what it is today. Right. Yeah. Anyway, all this to say, I, I was very pleased with my metaphor, uh, but also it was great to talk with him. And this is a guy who, what about you? I'm sure maybe, maybe you buy are both better people than I am, but I have a very high opinion of myself as a writer. And I am often jealous of the few people who I think are much, much better than me. See, not grand. He's great. He's the one guy I'm like, you know what? That's just awesome. Fist bump. Yeah. I just like to sit and bask in it.
Sonny00:13:23Um, we guys, so you guys were talking, I assume killers of the flower moon.
JVL00:13:27We're talking everything. We talked a lot about killers of flower moon, some lost city of Z, some of the wager, which is his new book, some just about biography and process and what it was like going from TNR to the New Yorker. I asked him, I asked him to explain to me his pitch to Remnick for lost city of Z. I was like, so tell, tell me when you sat down with Remnick to pitch that story, how did that work? He was like, yeah, it was funny. I was, you know, I was in his office and I was like, so there's this, uh, the city that might not exist in the Amazon and this, you know, these guys went and tried to find it and they died. And Remnick was like, so what, did anybody try to find them? And he was like, yeah, you know, some people went and tried to find them, but they, they disappeared. They never came back. And anybody else? Well, yeah, I mean, a bunch of expeditions have gone. Most of them just disappeared into the Amazon, but, uh, but I want to go down there for three months and see what I can do. Also, I'll need some more life insurance because they just had a baby and like, in case something happens to me. Amazing. I just thought of lay bash.
Sonny00:14:30He put, he put, I just want to point out that he put the Amazon three month story in his back pocket and waited for a baby. Be like, I'm out three months. Sorry. Got to do it. Got to do it. The story of my life. It's for work, honey. I gotta, I gotta go.
JVL00:14:49Remember lay bash pitching the, going to the, the academic porn conference. In, in Vegas, like it's, it's that level of, I don't know, for people who never worked at a magazine, right? When you, when you're thinking about a feature story that requires travel and expenses, gotta sit down with some, some editor there, who's got to sign off and say, yes, and you got to pitch to them. And it's hard to do because you don't really know, you know, if you knew what the story was, then you wouldn't have to go to report it, right? So you've got to like shine up what it is. And it just made me laugh because that's the world we all come from.
Mike00:15:23Yeah.
JVL00:15:24A lost world.
Mike00:15:25How are you boys? Really? Yeah.
?00:15:28Sonny, what's going on with you?
Sonny00:15:29Not a whole lot. Uh, big, big news in the world of movies this week, guys, uh, Oppenheimer out on 4k discs sold out everywhere, all over the country. Not, you can't get it on Amazon, target Walmart, any of these best buy it's all, it's all sold out everywhere. It was the number one VOD movie.
JVL00:15:46Are people flipping them on eBay for three times the street price?
Sonny00:15:50I would put it, yeah, two, two to three times right now. You know, people cause you got, you gotta get it before Christmas. It's Christmas present. Everybody wants Oppenheimer on 4k. Uh, but the, I, I, I bring this up because there was a, there was a very funny piece in IndieWire where the guy, like the guy writing the story breaks it down. He's like, yes, Oppenheimer gross, nearly a billion dollars worldwide. And yes, it's, it's sold out on 4k. Yes. That's at the top of the VOD charts, but this all proves that they should have put it in. They should have taken it out of theater sooner and put it on VOD. Sooner.
JVL00:16:24And I was just like, I was just like reading the story.
Sonny00:16:26I'm like, you, you are a complete fucking idiot. Like I, like I, like, was this Bob Iger? No, it just some dickhead on IndieWire. But like, I, I'm just like, I'm, I'm reading the story and the headline, I knew what I was getting into. Cause the headline was Oppenheimer success doesn't disprove the idea that it should have been on VOD sooner. I'm just like, you are, this is, you were, you are. You're driving me to distraction here. You're going to make me do bad things to someone. Um, and I, I, uh, but this is like, but this is like a, you have, you have to, I bring this up because there are two sorts of people in the world. There are the, we need to obliterate the differences between theaters and home and like it needs, you know, we need to get everything to everybody as quickly as possible. And then there are the people who believe very strongly in the windowing system. I am a windows person. I think the only way Hollywood, the only way theatrical feature films can work is with a strong theatrical window, right? Because like, sure, unless you are, unless you are Netflix and have $30 billion of revenue to play with a studio, cannot afford to put a $200 million movie straight to streaming. That doesn't, the economics of that do not work in any way. It doesn't work for a hundred million dollar movie. It doesn't even really work for a 40 or $50 million movie. Like the, the amount. The number of people who sign up for a service to watch a feature film, I remain convinced is incredibly low. I think people sign up for TV shows. I think people, uh, you know, will hesitate to, uh, get rid of a service of the library is very good, but almost nobody signs up for movies. And if you want streaming to work and you want feature films to exist, which are two things I actually want, I actually like streaming. I like a lot. I like a lot of things about streaming. I like having HBO shows to watch all the time. I like having Netflix, whatever. I like streaming, but I also really like movies. I like the two hour feature film. It's a good form. You know what you sound like, Sonny? What's that?
JVL00:18:39You sound like back in the early two thousands, there was this whole crush of people who were like, no, we want to keep our publication behind a paywall and make people subscribe to them when, when everybody knew was that the internet wants information. To be free, man. And that you would die if you took your publication and tried to put it behind a paywall. What you need to do is take all of the stuff that you make and put it out into the internet for free for everyone. Cause that's how you get all the eyeballs and that's, and it, it just, it has to be that way. It has to be that way. That's what you, you sound like one of those sticks. Oh, wait a minute. Yeah. Cause we're all back.
Sonny00:19:17Didn't, didn't work out. Did it? I, I, it's the same thing, isn't it? There was, there was, there was, there was another headline. Here's another headline today. There's this, uh, this, there was this thread that went viral on Twitter and this guy was like, I stole 5.3 million unique views for, from 400,000 users by using AI to create SEO terms that would get people to come to my website to read my things instead of at the New York times or the Washington post or whatever. And I can scale this up and it'll be a revenue. And I was just looking at that and I was like, yeah, that's because advertising is a bad business. Advertising, advertising on the internet is a bad, bad business.
JVL00:19:59And it is infinite because the supply is infinite.
Sonny00:20:03Well, this, and this is going to be a really interesting thing. I was, uh, I'm hopping all over the place here. I'm sorry. But the, but there was another story, uh, this week about how, so Amazon's prime video service is changing from, uh, from essentially what is a free add on to prime, right? It's, it's you. You get it. If you have Amazon prime, Mike, I forget. Do you not have Amazon prime?
Mike00:20:26I think we do now. Yes.
Sonny00:20:28Okay. Uh, so if you have Amazon prime, you have access to prime video and prime video. Prime video has like a certain number of movies for free, and then they have a large VOD selection and they have original series for free, you know, things like Bosch and, uh, uh, Reacher and that, and the Jack Ryan show. Right. So they, they've got, they've got the, this, this whole, this whole thing set up, but in a month or two or three. Months sometime soon, they're switching it from being free for everyone to being free for everyone with ads, or you can pay more to get the ad free experience.
JVL00:21:03Yep. How much more?
Sonny00:21:04And I, I, I don't, I can't remember what the number is. It's, it's something fairly nominal. I think like four or five bucks. So if I watched a lot of prime video, it would be a thing that I would probably pay for, but I don't. Uh, anyway, neither here nor there point is they are switching to, uh, they are switching. It's not like Netflix. It's like Netflix where Netflix has like tears and they, and they offered people a discount to take the ad tier. Like you pay 1299 a month. They said, you can pay 699 a month and you can with ads, or you can keep paying 1299 a month. Instead, they are just keeping the, they're keeping it free and putting ads in front of everything. And then they're also going to, uh, have an option to pay more if you wanted to do that. But what this is, what this instantly does is it creates a hundred. Million hours of advertising. I mean, it just like it, it floods, it floods the zone. So it's, what's going to happen is it's going to lower all the advertising rates for everyone because there's so much more supply, uh, and probably the same amount of demand in terms of people placing the ads, which is going to crash ad rates across the board. And like Netflix is already having trouble with their ads. HBO, my, my understanding is max is not doing very well selling ads. The Disney. With ads. Like they're not, they're all, they're all kind of having trouble trying to figure out how to, to, to do. So like Amazon's coming along and just being like, we got, we got 80 million ad hours. We got to fill here. Who wants to buy some ads? And it's just like, what happens? What happens to the ad market there? Because the ads are a bad business. You need to get people to pay subscriptions and that's how you make money. Yes.
JVL00:22:48I think in the future, honestly, the only ads that do make sense for this are DTC like direct to consumer stuff, which is the, you know, buy gold Ingalls, the gold Eagle coin is your only hedge against inflation, right?
Mike00:23:01The that's the only, it's the only thing on cable news, right?
JVL00:23:05The only thing on cable news. It's the only thing on podcasts with podcasts. It's like, you know, get the, the beard box with the products for your beard. Every month, those are everything, nothing else. You can't justify the expense of video ads, or you can't measure the ROI for your brand lift.
Sonny00:23:23The, the only, the only thing ads, you know, I, the only thing ads really make a lot of sense for at this point. And this is why networks by NFL packages is for live sports. Yep. So you can't skip them and it's for, they get them so they can advertise the rest of their network lineup. You, you, you, if you are CBS, you get the NFL package. So you can advertise NCIS to people and CSI. Whatever I, whatever is a, I don't even know Chicago fire, whatever, whatever,
Mike00:23:57whatever's on it's like, it's like with a fourth down, that's four nights of survivor, you know, coming up on CBS.
JVL00:24:05And, and also with sports, like, you know, 20% of the ads at this point are online gambling, sports, betting stuff, which is essentially direct
Mike00:24:14to consumer, right?
JVL00:24:15I mean, that, that is a direct to consumer style ad. It's, you know, here's a code to get $20 in free bets. Or something like, yeah, good luck. Good luck, babies.
Mike00:24:27All right. Uh, well, what's going on with me?
JVL00:24:31Yeah. What's going on with you? I did ask earlier. I said to both of you, I'm sorry. I'm drinking for three tonight.
Mike00:24:37I'm having a, what are you having?
JVL00:24:39It's a, we're almost an advent. So I'm having a Hardywood gingerbread stout, my favorite beer in the whole world. And, uh, from Richmond.
Mike00:24:49There you go.
JVL00:24:49And I am RV. 9.2%. And it's a big can. It's a full pint. Look at you. And I am, I am crushing your ass by the end of this. By the time we actually get to the, to the movie, I'm going to be just loopy, but Michael, how are you?
Mike00:25:08All right. Well, let me see how long I can stretch this out. Uh, fine. I was, I was telling Sonny, uh, before we started, um, that I don't know if you've heard JVL about the, the Sriracha sauce shortage. That is, uh, is plaguing the American market. So, uh, Sriracha, the rooster sauce, the actual official sauce, you can't find it for like less than like $9 a bottle. Um, it's just like Pico de Gallo.
JVL00:25:38What is Sriracha? I don't actually know what that is. I've heard the word before, but I don't know what it is. It's like a spicy ketchup.
Mike00:25:43Yeah. It's a spicy ketchup, but it's, it's, it's less, it, it, it is a hot sauce that is mildly hot. And has a sweetness to it. And it's different from Tabasco. Yes, it is different from Tabasco, but it is a hot sauce. Like, I mean, it is like Tabasco. It is like Frank's. It is, you know, it is just a, another type of hot sauce.
JVL00:26:05Is this what the little packets, the Taco Bell give you?
Mike00:26:08No, no, no, no.
JVL00:26:09Um, sorry.
Mike00:26:10Comes in, it comes in a bottle, comes in a bottle. It's got a rooster on, on the front and the big old cock on it. You want the exactly big old, big old, uh, big old cock on it. And, uh. Rollercock. Uh, and, and the, and it was created by, by an immigrant, I think from, from China. Um.
Sonny00:26:28I'm pretty sure I'm like 99% sure he's Filipino.
Mike00:26:31Oh, is he Filipino? That's right. That, that, that, that's right. I was trying to, um.
Sonny00:26:34That's like the most offensive. Is that offensive? The only way that could, the only way that could be more offensive is, is if you're like. I think it was invented by a Japanese guy.
Mike00:26:43Anyway. All right. Well, we're, we're going to edit this out. I don't know if we're going to have said Filipino from the beginning, um, a Filipino immigrant, and he's sort of like guarded. The recipe and, and it became this, you know, in the last like 15 years, it's become kind of a cult, uh, uh, hot sauce, um, uh, hit anyway, the price has gone up considerably. We are a sriracha sauce family, and we have just finished in the last week or so our bottle and, and, and this economy, and thanks to Bidenomics, I'm not going to Joe Biden. I can't, I can't afford to pay nine, $10 a bottle. It's a bottle for sriracha. So how far does a bottle get you? Like, is a bottle something you go through in a week? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. A bottle, a bottle in our house. We go through in probably six to eight months. Um, just a little $9 on your, uh, on your pad tie is all you need, you know? Okay. Okay. Um, you know, get it on my eggs in the morning, you know, it's great. Um, yeah. So, but normally you can buy a bottle for like, for like, $5. Um, so this is like, you know, almost, uh, you know, uh, a hundred percent markup. So it has to do with some kind of, um, supply issue, uh, that, uh, that, uh, some ingredient. And I don't even know what, and I guess I could research it, but the only thing that matters is that for the moment I'm looking for a, a cheaper alternative. And I have to say the one I got at the giant food is God awful.
JVL00:28:21It is a weapon version of Sriracha is not good.
Mike00:28:25Uh, I can't tell you what brand it is. It is just chicken on it instead of a rooster. It does have, it does have, uh, some Gallia form bird on it. I don't, I can't tell you what kind is it.
Sonny00:28:40Sambal Olek.
Mike00:28:41No, no, it's not Sambal Olek. I Sambal Olek is something completely different. Um, that's a, that's a Charlie. That's a Charlie. That's a garlic chili sauce. We also have Sambal Olek. This is a completely different. You said you, you have thoughts on condiments, Sonny, but you need to get your condiments straight. Okay.
Sonny00:28:58Well, here's the thing. I don't like Sriracha. I think Sriracha is disgusting. I think people who, yeah, I think the whole cult of Sriracha is weird and gross. I agree.
Mike00:29:06The cult is weird.
Sonny00:29:07And I, I don't care for it, but I also just don't like the sauce. I don't like, it doesn't, I don't, I don't like the taste of it. I will say that I do, I use Sambal Olek in a, uh, I make a, a, uh, broccoli and chicken stir fry in the Sambal Olek, uh, is a key ingredient and that gives it a nice kind of sweet spice, which like, I feel like, I feel like that would be a good, a good substitute if you're using it as an ingredient, not as like a, not as like a ketchup style sauce on the top, but if you're like making a dish instead of Sriracha, you can put a little bit of Sambal Olek.
Mike00:29:40Well, and honestly, like what I got is fine. What I got for my Sriracha, uh, uh, substitute is fine if I'm using it for cooking, if I'm making some kind of. Um, sauce and I'm adding it in to give it a little kick. Um, but on top of food, it's just, it's too sweet. And what I realized is like, so some people think Sriracha is too sweet and that's why they don't like it. Like I have friends who are very into hot sauces and oh, Sriracha, it's, it's not hot enough and it's too sweet. But to me it hits the perfect, it's like the perfect medium. Um, but apparently like whatever, whatever this, uh, great Filipino, uh, American who, who created it. Like he got the perfect balance of sweet and spicy and it, and it can't, it's, it's like, it's like if you run out of Coca-Cola and you try an RC Cola, it's just not the same, you know?
Sonny00:30:32So anyway, that's, well, this is what I was, what I was saying before the show is that this is a very much a Hunts versus Heinz sort of thing. If I go to, if I go to a restaurant and they have Hunts ketchup on the table, I, uh, my apples are immediately up because it's like, it's like. Like, do you not respect me as a consumer enough to get the good ketchup? Like Hunts, Hunts, I, I am sorry, JBL, you look very suspicious here. Hunts is not a good ketchup. Uh, Malcolm Gladwell did not write an 8,000 word piece about Hunts ketchup. He wrote about Heinz. Heinz is the best of the ketchups. It's the, there's no debate over this. It is, it is a perfect food. It hits all of the different flavor, uh, centers in the proper combination. It's literally like the Heinz ketchup is the thing that appeals to the most people in the world by science.
Mike00:31:28Look, Chick-fil-A uses Heinz proprietary Heinz ketchup in their little packets. Like, like lots of fast food restaurants just go with fancy ketchup. That's right. But, but, but, uh, I, I think that's, that says all it needs to say.
JVL00:31:45JBL, you look very confused, perturbed. That all condiments that is do not like them will not eat pickles, mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup, sriracha.
Sonny00:32:03Uh, how do you, how do you, how do you eat a burger?
JVL00:32:07Just like bread and meat, bread, meat, and cheese. I don't count cheese as a condiment. It's an ingredient.
Mike00:32:13So a friend of mine, my, my longtime best friend who is a sometimes listener to the show. Um, it's like you JVL. He does not like any condiments and disgusting. Our joke is how he used to order burgers at like a fast food restaurant. As he would say, um, you know, I'd like a cheat. I'd like a cheeseburger, just the meat, cheese, and bun. Yeah. And so that became like a, like we would just like make fun of it.
Sonny00:32:40Just order it plain.
Mike00:32:41No, no, no. But like he has to be drew. If you're listening, you have to be specific meat, cheese, and bun. So there was no, there was no question about what belonged and did not belong.
JVL00:32:51You know, as a, as a child, I had a real problem with fast food because in the late seventies and early eighties, when you tried to customize an order for a burger at McDonald's or, or, or Burger King, where their system was that the person had a microphone that like went back, I need a burger with just cheese and tomato, please. And the chances of you getting the customized order that you want were precisely zero. It was never once in the history of Burger King. For a cop microphone system of customization work.
Sonny00:33:25Remember? So like I worked, I worked at McDonald's before I worked at McDonald's before and after the switch over to the, to the custom. So like, if you go now and you order a cheeseburger, they make it fresh. It's there's no, but when I, when I started, I mean, fresh, I mean like they, the stuff's all there in, you know, various compartments, they just put it together. But like just in time delivery is when I, when I, when I started there, if you went into a McDonald's, there would be a row of sandwiches behind, behind the counter. And you, and, and there were like, there were, there were little sheets behind the, behind the thing. It said like, all right, from, from 11 to 12 PM at all times, there should be six cheeseburgers and two big Macs and three quarter pounders. And like, and like two fly of fishes. And like there, there was like a whole system. And that was, that was a great system for speed, but it was terrible for waste so much waste. If anything that was in the bin for more than, you know, 30 minutes, you're supposed to throw away.
JVL00:34:26Now, how much I got thrown away, how much that stuff cost in the aggregate, those, those burgers for like 15 cents of cost a piece.
Sonny00:34:34Yeah. But, but it's the same, it's the same cost now. I mean, like the, it's not like the ingredients got better when they went to, you know, making it, you know, uh, uh, I think the ingredients are better now.
JVL00:34:45I think there's less pink slime in the frozen patties that McDonald's uses now. That's why they don't taste. In the late seventies, early eighties, nineties. I love that.
Sonny00:34:54But anyway, the, the, the, there was, so there, the, the switch over caused a lot of controversy because what we would do with the, the food, instead of throwing it away, we would put it in a bag and we would give it to people. We'd give it to our friends or whatever. Like, you know, it, it wasn't really stealing because it was waste anyway.
Mike00:35:09You're throwing it out.
Sonny00:35:10Got to throw it away. So like, I, uh, so, you know, I, I would, I, I would turn a blind eye to my compatriots doing this because I would obviously never.
Mike00:35:21You were an upstanding. I would never do it. McDonald's.
Sonny00:35:23But I, but it, but it like, it, it's like, you're going to throw it away anyway. You might as well give them the old food.
JVL00:35:31Because your 15 year old friends don't actually care that it's been sitting there for 35 minutes.
Mike00:35:38Teenagers, teenagers, teenagers don't care what they put in their body. Yeah.
Sonny00:35:42But then, but then when, when we did, when you made the switch over, it changed everything and it like there were, there was, there were several months of chaos where like people, you know, did. Did not understand that the customers did not understand. The customers did not understand coming in and being like, wait, I can't immediately have a burger in my hand.
JVL00:35:59You can't reach back and slap a burger into a bag for me.
Sonny00:36:03And the reason, the reason I bring this all up is because once that changeover happened, everything became made to order. And it, it, it, it actually made people like JBL's life much better, much better because they, they would just say like, I'd like a cheeseburger, but without onions. And since it's all being made fresh anyway, it's not a special order. It's just like. Right. That's what it is.
Mike00:36:23Did they put the little sticker, um, which is what they used to do when I didn't like onions on my burgers, the little sticker that's like got grimace on it, smiling to indicate that it was a child who was ordering it.
Sonny00:36:35I, I was, I, you know, I can't remember.
Mike00:36:39I always felt patronized by that, even though I was the child ordering it my, my way. I was like, really? Like, well, you should have just learned to eat the onions. Well, I did. Now I love onions.
JVL00:36:48You don't never get that customization wrong. So Chick-fil-A, that's right. You order your chicken sandwich without pickles. Like they fucking know that you don't want pickles. That's right.
Sonny00:36:59It's really Chick-fil-A is the, is the most efficient and best of the fast food restaurants.
Mike00:37:06It's not even a question. It's like, why are we even, it's, there's, there's nothing else to say.
Sonny00:37:10Yeah, that's right. I've never, I've never, I've never, I have never had an order. Uh, I've never opened up an order once I got home from Chick-fil-A and like, been like, where's my ex? Yeah.
Mike00:37:21I have a couple of times, but, uh, but you know, but you know what? You it's because you sinned like, like you're, you're, you're paying, you're paying for some sin. Yeah. I just assume it's my fault. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Sonny00:37:34So, uh, Marling was in the car in front of you.
Mike00:37:38I'm going to, I'm going to speaking of Brit Marling, see how we did that. Play a sax or what rock? Uh, we, we are talking about, I guess we're lying right now.
JVL00:37:49You are really fly. You're like, I'm flying.
Mike00:37:51You're like, uh, way up in the air there. A little too close to the sun, Michael. I know. It's good to take a step back. JVL. Uh, we are talking this week eventually at 35 minutes in, uh, about, I guess the first three episodes of a murder at the end of the world, a, uh, show, uh, on Hulu created by Brit Marling and this other guy, uh, and, uh, starring his name, the Georgetown. Sal Batmanglish, Sal Batmanglish, uh, something like that. Sal, Sal, good old Sal, ZB, uh, and, uh, we're talking about this show this week. Uh, Sonny, do you want to give us a, um, review or a, uh, overview of what the show is?
Sonny00:38:40Sure. A murder at the end of the world is on FX on Hulu, uh, FX. That's how, you know, it's good. Uh, it's the, the hallmark of quality. Um, it stars, uh, let me pull up the. Actual, uh, I am.
JVL00:38:52Emma Corrin. Yeah. Clive Owen. Yeah. Yeah. Britt Marling. Uh, keep going if you want.
Mike00:39:02Harris Dickinson.
Sonny00:39:03All right. Harris Dickinson. All right. Uh, so it stars Emma Corrin as Darby Hart. She is a, uh, she is a hacker slash, uh, true life murder author. Uh, she and her, uh, boyfriend at the time, Bill, uh, who was played by Harris Dickinson. Um, yeah. Solved, solved a bunch of unsolved murders and she turned it into a book. And, uh, as a result of her dedication in the book, uh, to the, like, uh, I don't know, a lady hacker. Her name is Lee Anderson played by the aforementioned Britt Marling, um, uh, has been invited to this, uh, retreat hosted by Andy Ronson, who's played by Clive Owen, who is a, uh, uh, a, a tech guy. I basically imagine Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk type, right? Tech guy. They, they have, have built this hotel in the middle of Iceland and they're, uh, discussing the future of the world, AI, uh, global warming, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, at the end of the first episode, uh, Bill, again, played by Harris Dickinson is murdered and all of the people there, um, well, it really only Darby is trying to figure out who murdered him because everybody else believes, uh, the story put forward by Andy Ronson that he, uh, he, he overdosed accidentally. Um, and as such, uh, anyway, that's, that is, that's the, the, the, the very short version of the story. It's basically like an Agatha Christie. Uh, it's like a modern Agatha Christie story. I JBL, have you watched all three of the first three episodes? Yeah.
JVL00:40:38I didn't realize until just now that Harris Dickinson is from triangle of sadness. Yes.
Sonny00:40:43Yes.
JVL00:40:43Fucking amazing in this.
Sonny00:40:45Yeah. Yes. He's, he's, he's very good. Um, but, uh, so he, uh, so anyway, um,
Mike00:40:51but, but I will say, can I say it's not just an Agatha Christie murder mystery because it's interspersed with this very interesting personal character story, which is the, the past, uh, uh, the, the, the story, which is the story of her novel, right?
Sonny00:41:09I, uh, for, for, I, I don't find that that actually was so, all right. So, so Mike is right that the, this is kind of inter it's intercut with flashbacks to her, uh, and, uh, Bill solving these murders, figuring, writing, writing the book, figuring it, or not writing
Mike00:41:25the book, but, you know, living what the, what happens to the memoir.
Sonny00:41:29Um, and I don't, I gotta be honest. I don't find that stuff as interesting. Frankly, I, I find the, the stuff set in modern times kind of around AI and, and that sort of stuff. And you had mentioned, you mentioned earlier, uh, Mike, the there's, there's a moment, uh, it's a recurring moment now has happened. I think in each of the first three episodes where somebody will say artificial intelligence, and then, uh, Clive Owens, Andy Ronson will be like, we prefer alternative intelligence, which I want to, I just want to say, first off, it's great to have Clive Owen back in my life. I love some Clive Owen. He's, he's so good. Uh, and he should be in everything. And I'm glad, I'm glad he's in this. But, uh, second of all, the, the repeated, the repeated, uh, mantra here combined with some of the stuff we've seen. Happen already leads me to believe that at least one and possibly multiple of the people in this, uh, little, little group that they have assembled are, uh, alternative intelligence, maybe, or cyborgs, or like I, I, if I, I told, I told my wife after watching the first episode, that kid is a robot. There's the Andy Ronson.
JVL00:42:44Don't give him bread. Don't let him have bread.
Sonny00:42:47Andy Ronson, uh, and, uh, Lee Anderson. They have a, they have a child who's five or six, uh, and is running around and is very precocious and is 100% a robot. I'm, I'm just, I'm convinced of that already, but maybe not. I don't know. There's, there, there are other little fascinating, um, I will be upset if that is what happens
JVL00:43:07because we are living in a, in a world that is really grounded in like current culture, current technology, and in fact, even some past stuff. Right. There's a lot of like iPods. Uh, if all of a sudden we have robot children, well, that will feel like genre cheating,
Sonny00:43:29but, but JBL. So, all right. So we're going to talk spoilers here. Cause I want to talk at least through the first three episodes. Sure. Um, and you, you, you've seen all the, the first three JBL. All right. So at the end of the third episode, another person at the end of the first episode, Bill is killed at the end of the third episode, another person, another, another character is murdered. Earlier, we saw him communicating with somebody in the distance in the snowy Iceland distance. Um, but after that communication before the murder, we also took a sojourn out to the, the wastes of Iceland. And we saw what I would describe as an ant colony of robots, right? The, uh, which 100%, it was one of those ant colony robots that was signaling to this guy before he was murdered. So like, we're already in the realm of like, not quite. Not quite present machinery and tech.
JVL00:44:24Yeah. Fair enough. There is a little Blade Runner, like jump ahead to it. Yeah.
Sonny00:44:30So anyway, I liked, I liked this show a lot. I don't like, I really don't like reviewing and writing about TV shows before they're done. I like to have the whole thing there to kind of grapple with. I very much agree with David Simon, who always got frustrated with TV recappers who would be like, where is this going? And he's like, uh, you haven't watched the whole fucking thing yet. Of course you don't know where it's going. Like it'd be like reviewing a book, a chapter at a time. Like that doesn't make any sense. You gotta, you gotta have the whole thing. So I don't like doing that, but I, I, I'm glad we're talking about this show because I do enjoy it quite a bit. And I am, uh, and I love, I don't know if you guys watch devs, the, uh, the, it was also another FX show, another dealing with AI and, and robotics in the future and stuff. Um, I like that a lot as well, but this is, uh, this is also very good. I'm, I'm interested in. And curious to see where it goes.
JVL00:45:22JVL, your thoughts. Uh, you know, it's so one of my complaints about series TV is that there's too much running in place and everything is longer than it needs to be. And there's too much atmospherics, but maybe my complaint is really that the atmospherics aren't done well enough because this has a lot of atmospherics to it. And I fucking loved it. And, you know, so there's, you are not.
Sonny00:45:50Not a TV guy. You like watch very little TV, right?
Mike00:45:53Almost not. To be fair, this is a miniseries. Like, I don't think I think they're pretty much like this is one and done.
JVL00:46:00Yeah. I mean, it feels more like a BBC production in that way. Like, you know, whatever it's gonna be six episodes, I think seven. But, you know, so as a for instance, we get a scene early on of Darby and Bill driving in a car together and they begin. Listening to a Eurythmics song that he starts singing to. And then she eventually said, this doesn't sound like much, but it is. And it's Annie Lennox. It's Annie Lennox solo. Yeah. Oh, it's Annie Lennox solo. Okay. Yeah. Uh, it, it's fabulous and it gives you, it's, it's the perfect like show don't tell. Right. It, it shows you so much of the relationship there and it's a joy to watch. And is it strictly necessary? Does it need to go on as long as it does? No. Uh, but also I luxuriated in it and thought it was wonderful. Right. I, I, I didn't mind the, the atmosphere because it was so elegantly done.
Mike00:47:07Yeah.
JVL00:47:08And she, I don't know, Emma Corrin is doing really nice work here as the lead. You know, she is super self-contained, uh, and she's, it's very subtle acting work, right? It is not showy at all. I just looked at this and I thought to myself, this is like, this is what Knives Out would be if Knives Out was good. Right. I mean, this is, this is original murder mystery stuff that is heritage in the sense that it does. Oh, you know, its legacy is Agatha Christie, but it's, it's original and it's interesting and it's also character driven, but also plot driven and it has ideas behind it. Uh, and like, I, it's great. It's great. And I, I already want to spend more time with Darby Hart, the, the, the protagonist of it, even though I don't know that there is more time to be sat with her. I don't know that you could have another Darby Hart mystery series or movie. Maybe you could. Um, but the character. The character is original enough and interesting enough that I would like to spend more time with her.
Mike00:48:25Yeah. I mean, did you, did you like it, Michael? Yes. I'm we're, we're, my wife and I are both watching it. We're, we're loving it. And, um, I mean, it's, it's not just Agatha Christie. There's a lot of, um, uh, there's a lot of the, uh, um, what's his name? Uh, the girl with the dragon tattoo series, uh, Stieg Larsson, Stieg Larsson. There's a lot of Elizabeth Salander. In Darby, um, which is a lot of damages.
JVL00:48:54Did you watch damages on effect? I didn't watch it.
Mike00:48:57I know the show.
JVL00:48:58I, I've heard of it, but it just in the, in the, the time shifting in the, the, the way the story is told, jumping forward and backwards, it was a little bit to damages, which is another FX show.
Mike00:49:12Well, well, unlike Sonny, I really enjoy, um, the flashbacks and I do too. I, I find the. I find the character building there and the character character development in those scenes. Um, very enjoyable. You mentioned the, the Annie Lennox, uh, scene in, in, in the car in the first episode, JVL. Uh, that was terrific. Um, all of the, the, the, the whole sequence, I can't remember if it was the second or third episode. I think it was the second episode where she is meeting rather. She is. Talking with bill online for the first time in the whole development online of their relationship. And it's so much of her sitting in a chair. You can hear the creaks of the chair and the floor as she's sort of moving and, um, this glow of the screen on her face and the darkness of the room around her as she's sort of sharing this information that she's picked up in her investigation. And, uh, and, and finding someone online who's sort of, uh, not just as shares her interest, but kind of pushes her a little bit like that whole sequence. It's just, there's no dialogue in it. And, but you could sort of, I thought it's the first time I've seen sort of an online relationship depicted well in, you know, like in a, in a, in a movie or TV show. Um, and, and then it, it works so well. I mean, it's amazing that at the end of that, I think it is the second episode because at the end of that episode is the two of them meeting in person for the first time. And Bill turns around in the, in the, in the bar and smiles at her. And that's the end of the episode. I mean, it's like for a murder mystery to end on that, on one of the episodes, I just thought it's like, okay, this is a show that's very much interested in the characters, at least of these two, uh, people very much. So I, I just, I think. Um, I think that's an, a sort of an under, uh, heralded part of the show.
JVL00:51:26Sonny, you look like you're not convinced.
Sonny00:51:28No, I mean, I, it's just, I, I just don't care about them or their relationship. Like, I, I just like, I like, I, I, I, I, and I think part of it is just, I've always been vaguely annoyed by, uh, true crime stuff, like true crime podcasts. I can't stand them. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't like it or like the, you know, the Netflix. Uh, documentaries on, on true crime stuff. I just don't, does not, does not, uh, appeal to me. Um, so I'm, uh, I just, I just like, I want to, I, I, I, I want to be in Iceland where they're solving this murder. And part of me also feels that like they are part of what they are doing here is not just, it's not just the character development, uh, of Darby and Bill. It's also like proving that Darby can be a detective. By showing her do all of these other things. And it's like, you already did it in the first episode. Like she's, she's got the book. I believe you, she showed us her at the, the, the first murder house. Like I, I'm like, you know, I don't need any more convincing. I don't need any more proof that she's lady detective Darby, you know, whatever like that. I, I, it feels, it just feels like there's a, there's a lot of it and I don't care about it. I care about, I care about the, I care about the like philosophical AI part.
JVL00:52:50So normally I don't care about that stuff, right? Like in Andor, every minute that they jumped back into like, you know, his past, I, I just tuned out because I, I don't care about this. I mean, but it is, I really liked it. And part of it just because it was so well executed. Do you guys agree or disagree that the character itself of Darby Hart feels like really original? Like I, you know, so much of. Of detective fiction, the detective character feels derivative of, you know, somebody else, whether it's Hercule Poirot or Miss Marple or Sherlock Holmes, right? Um, and sometimes like in the, the series house, uh, it, it's intentional, right? I mean, Gregory house is Sherlock Holmes explicitly. Uh, and I just, you know, and then you, sometimes you get like the box. Gosh, character doesn't do anything for me. Like, you know, it is sort of inert, but this feels Darby Hart feels like something new and something really interesting. And, uh, as somebody who loves detective fiction in the same way that Reacher felt like, right. You know, when Jack Reacher appeared, he felt new and different. Like this idea of like, yeah, he's a detective, but he's also just this enormous violent man. Right. And that was new and exciting. And Darby Hart feels new and different in a genre, which is so well-worn, uh, that it's hard to come up with something new.
Mike00:54:30You know, I mean, again, Lisbeth Salander jumps out at me and it's not just the tattoos. It's the sort of like, you know, she goes out into the snow to follow the person she sees because she's sort of insanely committed to, to it without a care for her own health and safety and, and. Whether this is Mark, but I, I, I do think she's, I do think the vulnerability of, of, of Darby is new, is a new element to that, to that kind of character. So, um, I will say that, uh, the, uh, the both Darby and Bill have the worst haircuts. Yeah. The clothes that she wears. I said to my wife, I said, these, she, she dresses like a fucking idiot. Like, and I guess this is true. It's not just like Gen Z fashion or whatever, but like she dresses like an idiot.
JVL00:55:24She's clearly on the spectrum.
Mike00:55:26Is that what it is? The character is clearly on the spectrum. Okay. But no, no, no, no. But I think she's, I think, I think this is like, she, she's sort of a, this is fashion for, for the Gen Z set. And because you see it also, you guys probably didn't watch it, but the, um, the show, the second season of the white Lotus, um, there's a character, a Gen, a very. I watched it. Yeah. The, the, the, the Gen Z assistant. Yeah.
Sonny00:55:49No, it's, it's, yeah. It's, it's.
Mike00:55:50It's a good thing.
Sonny00:55:51Yeah. It's, it's, it's ugly modern clothes. Yeah. Anyway. Um, but kids these days, brutalisms, right. All the shit in their face and their, you know, you know, garbage clothes, terrible haircuts.
Mike00:56:02She wears like these like flared pants, you know, and she's like running around to solve a mystery. I'm like, come on. Like, like. Yeah. She's a wonderful actress. She's, she played Diana in, uh, one of the, one of the seasons of the crown, I believe.
Sonny00:56:14Yeah. The, the, not the one that's out now, not the one before that.
Mike00:56:19Well, which.
Sonny00:56:19Diana. Diana. Before she got married to.
Mike00:56:22When she was like 16 or 17. Yeah. Um, and she, whenever she has a hood over her, all I see is Diana like that. Like I can't see, you know, um, so anyway, she's, she's terrific, but I don't know who mentioned it. Clive Owen. Love Clive Owen. And he's so.
Sonny00:56:40So good.
Mike00:56:41He's, he, he does such a, he's such a, something great here, which he always seems to do, which is, uh, you don't think you don't find that, uh, sunny. No, I think that's about right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, he's doing a great job with that here. It's like, there's that scene where he's like talking.
Sonny00:57:01He's got a very particular British accent that is both like the, as you say, it's like both like can be soothing, but it's also like, there's like an under current of threat and menace. Yes. Yes. Like nasal.
JVL00:57:13That like his voice has a nasal quality to it. I mean, do you remember when Clive Owen, like Hollywood took a. Minute of giving him at all, you know, they gave him like two years of all access pass to be a leading man and it didn't work out in the same way that like, it didn't work
Sonny00:57:29out for Jude law, but he, he was not into it though. He did not like, I think that's the thing. Yeah, no.
JVL00:57:36And, uh, and I have to say, I really, I, I missed the Clive Owen didn't do what Jude law did, which was just retreat into very accurately supporting roles because he's a wheezing in everything he touches, but I'm grateful that he didn't do what Gerard Butler did, which was just become like a dime store knockoff of a leading man, uh, because he's a real actor and he's great. Yeah. Would have made a great James Bond.
Sonny00:58:05There was, there's that stretch in like 2004 to 2006 where he's in, he's in like the big King Arthur movie that was directed by, uh, Antoine Fuqua, but then he was in sin city, uh, inside man, children of men. Um, the international, remember the international duplicity duplicity. That was another, God, I'm just looking at his IMDb now. It's great.
JVL00:58:27Inside man is such an underrated movie.
Sonny00:58:29Great, great movie.
Mike00:58:30Children of men is, is like this top tier for me. Um, anyway, it's nice to have him.
JVL00:58:37Has he been working steadily since? Like, I feel like I haven't, I haven't seen him in a very long time.
Sonny00:58:42Not really.
Mike00:58:42No, I mean like, uh, I'm looking, wasn't he doing, he was doing a lot of Gemini man.
Sonny00:58:49He was in Gemini man. I think is the last thing we would have. Oh, he was, he was, he had a small part in Valerian in the city of a thousand planets. If I remember correctly. Okay. He was like a villain. Maybe.
Mike00:59:01Was he doing British movies? No, no, I guess. I don't know.
Sonny00:59:03No, I just like, wasn't working. Maybe he was doing some TV, I guess. I don't know.
JVL00:59:08Britt Marling is also very good in this.
Mike00:59:11She's interesting. Like that.
JVL00:59:13He was Bill Clinton.
Sonny00:59:15He was Bill Clinton in impeachment, American crime story. Yes. Yes. god so the american crime story ryan murphy yeah that's right the one where um uh where uh what's his name it was the follow-up to the oj simpson one correct remember they did like the oj simpson american crime story then they did the andrew cunanan american crime story the the murder of uh or was it the no i'm maybe i'm the guy who the guy who killed uh versace oh whatever i forget i forget who that was uh but that and then it was impeachment uh american crime story and then um
Mike00:59:55the impeachment one had jonah hill's sister as uh as uh monica right um uh what's her name maybe from uh i didn't watch it yeah i didn't i didn't i didn't either but i was sort of intrigued by who was playing all the all the people um i don't know any other thoughts on a murder at the end so here's here's a question for you before we wrap up here do you watch this trying to figure out the mystery or do you watch this and just go i'm just along for the ride this is interesting and fun and i
Sonny01:00:26like the show i almost never watch trying to solve it as i go and i will say that this is one of the few times where i've been like watching it being like okay alternative intelligence that clearly means something and or like or like the bit where uh again where you see like the the communication via the flashing lights and then in the next episode we see like all the little the little worker robots with their flashing lights and that's how they communicate i'm like okay that's there's something this is part of the the robots are coming to tell this guy what's going on or what to do and i'm uh i am i am like but i'm also i don't know i'm not actively like it's funny i'm
JVL01:01:10the opposite i don't have i'm always trying to figure out who done it and on this one
Mike01:01:15i'm just along for the ride look at this this is actually this is a this is a uh mind and experience expanding show for for all of us yeah i i try to figure it out but mostly it's because i'm trying to keep up with my wife who is like insanely good at predicting correctly how things in movies and tv shows go and like she it's like i'm like are you watching something like do you have extra notes that you're like reading it because like she sees things i'm like how did you how did you see that oh well so and so said this and this like i can't my mind cannot can't do that while i'm watching i'm like oh the pictures are moving the bright colors and the sounds isn't this amazing so it always makes me feel like an idiot and that's what i do feeling watching the show uh any other final thoughts on a murder at the end of the world
JVL01:02:08i know they say fuck at one point can you do that on fx now it's cable
Sonny01:02:15yeah it's cable you've been you've been able to drop an f-bomb i mean i thought like in the shield
JVL01:02:20it was a big deal that michael chiklis could say shit it so i thought it was a big deal when you
Sonny01:02:26could see his ass there's been there's been uh f-bomb creep uh it used to be like it used to be like you weren't really allowed to say it on fx and then you get like one or two per season uh so i think i think we're i think it may be a little bit c word can they say the c word on fx yet
JVL01:02:44is sunny in our continuing quest to make the c word acceptable to normalize the c word in america which is important for american comedy i don't think we can truly have parity with the brits
Sonny01:02:56in comedy until we can use the c word like funny things it's it's a great it's it's a it's a it's a great word to generate some some shock and uh you know really really dry but like the thing is normalize we have to normalize men using it against men right specifically yeah that's when it's funniest if you if you don't if you if you if you go around calling women the c word i'm gonna
Mike01:03:24say that's that's your problem 50 of the population in america is not going to go for it that's the
Sonny01:03:31problem but but if you're if you're using it to describe men that's fine it's men can call each other whatever we want i feel like there there should be a pretty wide latitude of what we
JVL01:03:44i agree and you know what the fact that we have this taboo you look disturbed you look disturbed only encourages us to when we break it use against women as bill burr did in old dads and he called that woman a stumpy cunt right whereas if we were like the brits the brits never use it that way right the brits are always using it just guys talking to other guys right that because it's
Sonny01:04:08just another word for jibber you know you know clive owen has called hundreds of people the c word yeah hundreds of men the c word 100 chance i know it's comforting and menacing at
Mike01:04:19the same time uh no i find the word itself i actually like it it makes my skin crawl like i find it so and i it's i'm i don't know i can't explain it it's just it's just so dirty to me you need to watch more guy ritchie but here's the thing but when a brit says it in a british accent
Sonny01:04:38it doesn't sound dirty that's my point they can get away with anything anything this is such
Mike01:04:43yeah you know we have we have we still have empire you know they don't they don't have an empire anymore so it's like it's like a nice trade you know they get the they get the c word we get
Sonny01:04:51to be you know the the the hegemon we can have it all we just like brit marling we can have a choice we can we can we can have we can have empires stretching the globe where we deploy the c word at will just like our tomahawk missiles all right well that's all the time we are giving that was
Mike01:05:10a bit of a good outtake uh that is all the time we're giving to this episode we've run over long again join us at subbeacon.com and we will talk to you next time
Sonny01:05:20gonna get some angry comments uh yeah we are from the listeners i'm sorry i i i just think it sounds so much better your squeamishness your squeamishness i'm surprised i'm surprised at you
Mike01:05:37it is that but i'm telling you it's that one word it is that one word and i can't i'm sorry
Sonny01:05:43it's just that one word there's no other word that makes you feel that way mike when you watch
JVL01:05:47the gentleman and uh no comment uh colin ferrell is calling guys the c word you don't laugh you
Mike01:05:57don't guffaw it's great it's it's funny it's just it is it has to be used sparingly and there are a couple of instances i can think of in like comedy tv shows or movies where it works and it's because it is not commonplace that is my view um it is it is the shock of it and if you take away the shock of it because it becomes commonplace then it's not as funny anymore there that's my view i'm sure it's fine there is a there is a
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