#215. 'Midnight Run' (Netflix)
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The main event is Martin Brest's 1988 buddy comedy Midnight Run, newly on Netflix, and all three hosts land in the same enthusiastic place: Sonny calls it a charming, near-flawless hangout movie even while grousing that it never really explains bail-bond mechanics or why the fugitives drive to Amarillo instead of taking a more direct route west; JVL, seeing it for the first time, marvels that it's essentially a comedy without jokes that becomes hilarious purely on the strength of Robert De Niro and Charles Grodin's chemistry, with De Niro sounding like he's ad-libbing the entire film; and Mike, who belatedly realized mid-viewing that he and his wife had already seen it years earlier, calls it a near-perfect movie and singles out Yaphet Kotto, Dennis Farina, and John Ashton's supporting turns. The trio also digs into the film's straight-to-video sequel franchise, Charles Grodin's oddball CNBC talk show, and his role in The Great Muppet Caper. Before any of that, the episode opens with its usual long banter stretch: Sonny recounts taking his kids to a theatrical screening of The Nightmare Before Christmas and spins out an extended theory that the film's real message is "know your place in society and don't try to change it," which leads into a Paw Patrol villain bit, a Pee-wee Herman/Blippi tangent (JVL has never seen Pee-wee's Big Adventure and can't stand Tim Burton), and a riff on CoComelon as "the crack cocaine" of kids' TV. Mike then walks through his own déjà vu experience of forgetting he'd already seen Midnight Run, plus his childhood habit of confusing it with Midnight Express, which spins into a long detour on Danny Elfman's surprisingly un-Elfman-like score, his Oingo Boingo origins, his marriage to Bridget Fonda, and his #MeToo settlement. There's also a box-office check-in on Killers of the Flower Moon's $23 million opening, with Sonny giving a mixed-positive, not-quite-masterpiece verdict on Scorsese's "slow cinema" epic and a tangent on Apple's willingness to spend $200 million as a prestige loss-leader.
From the show notes
Dudes Chatting, Action-Style.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00Why would you eat that? Why? Because it tastes good. But it's not good for you? I'm aware of it. Well, why would you do something that you know is not good for you? Because I don't think about it. Well, that's living in denial. Living in denial? Yeah. I'm aware of that. So you're aware of all your behavior, yet you continue to do things that aren't good for you. That sounds sort of foolish, don't you think so, John? No. Stealing $15 million from Jimmy Serrano sounds foolish. I didn't think I'd get caught. Now that's living in denial. I'm aware of that. Oh, so you're aware of your behavior, and yet you continue to do things that aren't good for you. Sounds kind of foolish to me, don't you think, John? It was foolish.
Mike00:00:53Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast. I am your co-host, Mike Warren. Joining me as always are two guys who are unpopular with the Chicago Police Department. Why are they unpopular with the Chicago Police Department? Why are they unpopular with the Chicago Police Department? Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Sonny did not like that one at all. We're going to be talking about "Midnight Run" later in the show. You can join us, by the way, at subbeacon.com. If you want to become a patron, join us there. Get first access to these episodes every Friday morning at subbeacon.com. Become a part of the Sub-Beacon community. And let's just jump right into it. Sonny Bunch, what's going on with you, big guy?
Sonny00:01:40Sonny Bunch: Not much. I took my kids to see "The Nightmare Before Christmas." No, I've already had to go see the "Paw Patrol" movie twice. And, like, the first time I was like—
JVL00:01:54Is the sequel even better than the first one?
Sonny00:01:56Sonny Bunch: Let me tell you guys, I don't know how to assess such a thing.
JVL00:02:02Does it have the weirdly coded gay villain like in the first one?
Sonny00:02:06Sonny Bunch: Who? The mayor? The mayor of— Sonny Bunch: Mayor Humdinger? Mayor Humdinger has always been the villain. He's the villain in all of them. He is the villain in this one as well.
JVL00:02:15Oh, really? He's the villain in this one as well?
Sonny00:02:17Sonny Bunch: Yeah, he's never not the villain. Mayor Humdinger is the—
Mike00:02:20Sometimes his nephew. Nephew, by the way. Nephew is the villain. Sonny Bunch: Yes.
JVL00:02:26Isn't that also code? Isn't that like Matt Gaetz with his nephew who like, you know, the adopted son?
Sonny00:02:33Sonny Bunch: You know, I never put all this together, but it's making a lot of sense now, frankly. It's, you know, no wonder the little boy who runs the dog police outfit is worried about this mayor coming for him all the time.
JVL00:02:46Groomer. Mayor's a groomer.
Sonny00:02:48Sonny Bunch: No, we went to go see— Groomer's the new Paw Patrol. Sonny Bunch: We went to go see The Nightmare Before Christmas. Sonny Bunch: I love this movie.
JVL00:02:56Sound of freedom/Paw Patrol mashup, isn't it?
Sonny00:02:59Sonny Bunch: I mean, we're done with that. We're done with the groomer Paw Patrol. Stop talking about groomer Paw Patrol. You're throwing me off my rhythm here. Anyway, Nightmare Before Christmas. Love this movie. Kids love it. We're very excited to go see it in theaters. Of course, my son didn't take a nap and it was at four, which is like right after when nap time is supposed to be. So he was fucking fidgety as fuck the whole movie, whatever. Neither here nor there. I have a question about this movie. I'm curious to get your guys take on it because I, again, I like this movie a lot. But it is, it's a, it's kind of a fascinating kids movie in that the entire, the entire thematic argument being made by Tim Burton and Henry Selick, who's the actual director. Tim Burton is a, I think he has a story credit and was like visually, you know. He designed all the characters and stuff. But the actual director is a stop motion guy named Henry Selick. And the whole, the whole thematic arc of this movie is, hey, kids, the universe has a place for you. Society has a place for you. Never try to change your place in society. Just do what you have been assigned forever. Because if you start, if you start mucking about with the natural order of things. If you. If you start trying to improve your position and do something you want to do as opposed to what you have been assigned to do, what you are frankly good at, what you've been created to do, you're going to destroy everything. You're going to break. The whole system is going to break down. Everyone's going to hate. You might die. Your friends might die. Christmas will be ruined. Right. Specifically, Christmas will be ruined. But, you know, it's a broader. So just be happy with, be happy with what you are. Just be happy with what you are. And accept the life. And accept the lot that you've been given. Yeah. That's basically it.
Mike00:04:57Right. I mean, it's I would put a I would put a more positive gloss on it than you did in terms of it. You hit it, I think, on the head when you said, like, do what you are created to do, like what you are. What is your what's your calling or what is your.
Sonny00:05:14But it's not it's not really a calling. It's like you. You are. You have a role. Right. You have it. You have a place in the hierarchy of society and do that thing. And that's it. Just don't don't muck muck about. Don't don't try it. Don't don't let your reach exceed your grasp. You know, just.
Mike00:05:34Right. Because because Jack is. Stay where you are. Jack is a dreamer and is a dreamer. The dreams get him in trouble and.
Sonny00:05:43Well, they destroy everything. They destroy. They destroy. They destroy everything in Halloween town and everything in Christmastown and everything in the real world. I mean, like it's. It's actually it's just very interesting to me that this is like, you know, this is like the goth kid movie that like was basically 80 percent of Hot Topic gear for my entire childhood was like Nightmare Before Christmas shit with like Jack Skellington and what's Sally and Sally and the dog, the dog, the dog and the dog. And like, it's just like the actual lesson of this movie is kids do what society tells you to do. Stop trying to do other things. Just like. Listen to the man. Let the man tell you what to do because he knows better. And I frankly, I think that's a great lesson for kids. I think that is actually.
Mike00:06:30This is now required viewing every.
Sonny00:06:32I mean, I've always I've always liked this movie, but it's just I just recently put together why I like it. And it's because it represents the natural order of society. Things are how they are. Don't try and change them because you're going to ruin everything.
Mike00:06:45JVL, you look skeptical. No, I just I've never seen it.
Sonny00:06:50What? You've never seen it. You've never seen it before Christmas.
Mike00:06:53Well, to be fair, I had not seen it until a few a few years ago. Really?
Sonny00:06:58Yes. And this is a zero in classic.
JVL00:07:01Zero. Less than zero interest. Everything about the visual aesthetic of it just said to me, strange energy. Do not like it.
Sonny00:07:09What do you like? Beetlejuice.
JVL00:07:11Hate it.
Mike00:07:12Then. Yeah.
Sonny00:07:14Then it's not.
Mike00:07:15Yeah, you're not going to like. You're not going to like this.
Sonny00:07:17Yeah. Do you like? Edward Scissorhands?
?00:07:20Pee-wee's Big Adventure?
JVL00:07:21Uh. Didn't see it. Didn't want to see it again. Every everything about. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait.
Mike00:07:27You didn't see Pee-wee's Big Adventure?
JVL00:07:29No. Again, I am older than you guys. So Pee-wee's Big Adventure was. No, there was no like reconsider. It was the point where we we did not have the ironic distance to be like, oh, well, actually, we were just like, this shit's fucked up. No.
Sonny00:07:50Yeah. You were probably what? When that came out.
JVL00:07:53Something like that. Yeah. Nineteen. Eighty five. Much of Tim Burton is lost on me. Well, I love love the first Batman. Yeah.
Mike00:08:03Right. If you don't like that, this is kind of the peak nightmare before Christmas is kind of the peak of even though it's not Tim Burton directed, it's kind of peak Tim Burton. And then it is.
Sonny00:08:12It kind of goes downhill. It is like it is the most distilled version of Tim Burton. Certainly. I mean, it is like it is like a bunch of storyboards. No.
JVL00:08:22I guess because it has people in it.
Sonny00:08:24Edward Scissorhands kind of is, but it still takes place in what is recognizably the real world in a way. Tim Burton doesn't like that.
JVL00:08:30Yeah.
Sonny00:08:31Yeah.
JVL00:08:32Didn't didn't work for me.
Mike00:08:33So I've never seen it, but people love it. The thing about Pee Wee's Big Adventure, by the way, and because Paul Rubens died recently, I was sort of on this following all this and then podcasts I listen to did like a retrospective on Phil Hartman. I mean, Phil Hartman and Paul Rubens created that character. Paul Rubens created that character together. And it Tim Burton is very much like, you know, a collaborator with them on that, which makes it better in every single way. Like, like it is there. Tim Burton has to adapt something that is not his and look at Batman as well. I mean, like you could like the it's almost like the more creative control Tim Burton has, the worse it is. But like, keep them, keep them restricted.
JVL00:09:23But, but Pee-wee's Playhouse distinct from Pee-wee's Big Adventure was not an ironic like it's actually for adults, right? Correct. So, so yes. Am I wrong about this? When I was in high school and that thing was on, we were all, we just looked at, we were like, yeah, this looks like a creepy ass kids show.
Sonny00:09:42There was, there was, there was a, there's a, there's a kid show version that was like, it was like a creepy kid show. Kind of. It was like a Fraggle Rock-ish sort of thing. I think. In terms of like. Yeah, but they played cartoons.
Mike00:09:54In terms of the aesthetic.
Sonny00:09:55But like the, but no, the original Pee-wee was very much like an adult oriented thing. Like the original specials ran on HBO, I think. Which was adapted from a live show. It was a live show. That was definitely not like, it was not showing, they were not showing that to kids, the live show. It was like a, it was, you know, it was definitely.
JVL00:10:12We were like, I'm going to go watch Commando. I, I do not want to, we'll watch Predator or Commando. We are not interested in Pee-wee Herman.
Mike00:10:20Pee-wee's Big Adventure though is, it's one of my favorite movies. And it's so, it's so, it's like perfectly, like everything is perfectly, uh, uh, toned, you know, like it gets in it and it's, it has this sort of, uh, obviously like the whimsy of Pee-wee Herman and all this stuff, but like there's a, there's a slight edge to it. It's like a, it's like a dulled edge. As well. And, and Pee-wee is not always like the hero in it. And I that's, you know, like he he's, he's kind of like a dick sometimes. Anyway, it's just like the whole thing is I love, I love that movie. I like could analyze that movie down to the second Pee-wee's Pee-wee's relationship to
JVL00:11:05Blippi. Give me, give me that. Cause Blippi is Pee-wee for our children. No.
Mike00:11:13Is that wrong? No. Look, Pee-wee Herman comes out.
JVL00:11:17Is Blippi less disturbing than Pee-wee Herman or more disturbing?
Mike00:11:20More disturbing. More disturbing. Pee-wee Herman is a character born out of Los Angeles sketch comedy world. Like, like that is like, like it is, it is a joke. It like at its core in a way that Blippi is just, well, I don't know. My kids never watched Blippi. I like saw it once and it was like, F this.
Sonny00:11:42No, I don't, I don't let my kids watch things that don't have plots. This is, no, it's a, it's a, it's an actual rule I have. They would turn, like they turned on Coco Melon or one of those fucking things once. And I watched about, I watched about five minutes of it and I turned it off. I was like, you guys can watch literally any cartoon you want. I don't, I don't care what cartoon you watch, but it has to have a plot. They have to be trying to accomplish a thing. It can't just be colors and shapes on the fucking screen because that, that is bad for your brain.
JVL00:12:13That's a movie recently where I didn't like it because there was no plot, Sonny. And you were like, but it's atmospheric and it's characters. We're adults. You violated your own rules.
Sonny00:12:26No, no, no, no. There's a difference between things that adult, adults watch and like the way art works for adults than it is for kids. I know, I know. Which is just like, like putting, putting goggles on their face with like flashing colors. Like the Blanca, the Blanca goggles. Putting the Blanca goggles on their face. And it's just like weird men and blonde shapes.
JVL00:12:47You will learn about narrative structure, child. It must have three acts.
Sonny00:12:52It will have three acts. At the end of the second act, you will hit your lowest point.
JVL00:12:59And if you're lucky, you'll get the denouement.
Mike00:13:01The, you know, like the difference between like Coco Melon and anything else scripted is like, it's like the difference between like crack cocaine and any actual nutrient, you know, like heavy food. Like they do not give your kids the crack cocaine of Coco Melon because literally they will. There was a time when the, uh, the, the au pair with, with my number two would put it on. And like, if you played the song at the beginning, didn't it do to do Coco Melon? Like it was like, Oh, I got my fix.
Sonny00:13:31It's it's it's their, their brains are it's it's actually like Coco Melon is actually probably the most valuable thing that Netflix has. Like I say this, I say this, I, and they don't even own it. They just, you know, they, they, they actually don't own it. They, they just have the, the broadcast broadcast rights to it. But like every single Nielsen's charts is like, it's like Coco Melon. It's like Coco Melon and Bluey. Like those are the two most things.
JVL00:13:56You know how, uh, in the gaming industry, uh, there is a lot of money and research put into making slot machines as attractive and addictive as possible. Sure. From the, the color scheme and the, the way in which they pay out of the sound. The sound. Yeah. Clearly people have done the exact same thing for like child animation. Totally. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Mike00:14:25Uh, all right. Well, I'm glad you're, you're, you're educating your children, Sonny with, uh, with the classics, uh, like nightmare before Christmas. Um, so were they scared by the way, before we move on, were they scared because it's, it's kind of that grotesque. Yeah. Creepiness, you know, there's definitely.
Sonny00:14:41Yeah. But it's, it's like, uh, it's so, it's so cartoony and so not real. Like, I'm like, my kids are such scaredy cats.
Mike00:14:48I haven't shown it to them.
Sonny00:14:49We were coming out of the theater and one of them saw a poster for Beetlejuice. They're like, Ooh, we should see that movie. And I was like, uh, that's maybe in a few years. I don't know. What do you think of this? Um, all right.
Mike00:15:03Uh, so let's move on before I do more Beetlejuice. Uh. What is going on with you buddy? Just one thing. Just one thing.
JVL00:15:13Uh, I would like to stand up for again, the deep comedy of the Barbie movie, because I came downstairs mere moments ago, uh, and flash was FaceTiming with his girlfriend. And what was he doing while he was FaceTiming his girlfriend? He was just playing guitar for her. And I gotta say that I, I saw her face. She looked like she was dead. She was in hell.
Sonny00:15:40Was it, was she playing, uh, Matchbox 20? Was he playing Matchbox 20?
JVL00:15:44He was not playing Matchbox 20. But it was so per- it might as well have been Matchbox 20. And I was just like, yup.
Mike00:15:51It's funny because it's true. I'm sure she loved it.
JVL00:15:55That's what my girlfriend said in high school. Michael, how are you buddy? Oh, I'm fine.
Sonny00:16:00Wait, wait, do we need a cross country update? Did you kick the, the winner off?
JVL00:16:04No, but she's basically done like showing, I heard her. In fact. Leaving school on Monday before practice. And one of the other kids was like, aren't you going to practice? And she said, no, I don't feel like it. And she's like, she won't come to any of the other meets.
Mike00:16:19This is bizarre actually.
JVL00:16:20Guarantee you she won't show up to another meet all season long. And, uh, weird. No more practices.
Mike00:16:26But like she's paying to be on the team, right? Like there's a, there is a fee to be on the varsity sports team. No.
JVL00:16:33I mean, I think you had to pay like $15 to help cover it. Like it's not a. It's not a. It's not a heavy nut. I mean, she's her parents that I take out a third mortgage for it. Okay.
Mike00:16:44All right. All right. Okay. Uh, me. So actually, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to do something a little meta here. I'm going to go meta with the dude's chatting and, and, and sort of meld it with our movie chat because did you lose me?
JVL00:16:58Have you ever had potatoes? Leone's Michael?
Mike00:17:01Yeah, I have.
JVL00:17:03I have.
Mike00:17:04Um, so I texted you guys. So Sonny, I believe this was your idea to watch midnight run. Yeah. For this week. And I texted you guys. I said, um, yeah, great. Want to see it. I've never seen it. Same. So last night, uh, the kids are asleep. Uh, and, uh, Melissa and I fire up the Netflix, get it going. We're watching it. And then like about 10 minutes in, she goes, we've seen this before. And I was like, I knew we had seen this before. No, we couldn't have seen this before. No, no, no, no. I don't remember this. And literally like within two minutes of that, like it was, it was like, oh yeah. And the thing was, is like, we had seen it. We had watched it. We don't remember when we watched it, but we've watched it. Like within the past two years, probably when Charles Grodin died that like, I like was like, oh, I've never seen this. We should watch this. And, uh, yeah. He died two years ago. Oh, dagger.
Guest00:17:59Yeah.
Mike00:18:00Sorry. Um, but I think it was like in the, it was like in the fog of COVID when we watched it and certainly was when he died. So like it just, it, we watched more movies like on streaming than it, you know, at any time before or since like in that, you know, nine to 18 month period. And so, but the thing about it was, was it's like, we remember, it was like, it was that phenomenon of, you don't remember how the movie goes, but then like the next scene happens and you're like, oh yeah, I remember how this goes. And like, so, so we kept watching obviously, because we were going to talk about it. We were going to talk about it here, but it was also like, yeah, how did it go? Like, what was the next part? And then as soon as it starts like, oh yeah. And then the thing and the, and he goes and they fall in the river and blah, blah, blah. And, uh, and so it was an odd way to like watch a movie. Uh, and I don't know if you guys have experienced this. There's been a few times where I've Sonny, maybe not for you, cause you see everything, but like where I forget I've seen a movie and then like it, there's a moment, there's a moment when you're watching it, where you go, have I seen this before? And I feel like it's like 10 minutes in before it's like the point of no return where you're like, well, I have seen this before, but I'm already, I'm, I'm pot committed. I've got to like, keep watching this, but maybe this has never happened to you guys.
JVL00:19:21Not me. No, I've done this like several times. Yeah. Of course I don't watch as much stuff as you do though.
Mike00:19:29Uh, so the Wolverine movie where he's in Japan, this happened to me several years ago.
JVL00:19:34The Wolverine.
Mike00:19:34The Wolverine. Yeah. Yeah. That, that one. So like, I was like, oh, I've never seen it. I've never seen the Wolverine. And then like, again, about 10 minutes. I was like, oh wait, I have seen this.
Sonny00:19:42I've definitely seen this.
Mike00:19:44Um, so, okay. Well, yeah, it is a good flick. So was this, I mean, so like it wasn't, I don't know. It just, it was a, maybe this is not that interesting if you guys have ever experienced this, but this is like happened to me maybe about five times in my life.
JVL00:19:56Movie deja vu. Yeah. But do you ever have the opposite where you are watching something that you think you've seen and then midway through you realize that you've actually never seen it?
Mike00:20:05No, that's never happened. It's, it's all, it only goes one direction. Um, but I don't know. Okay. So this is maybe, maybe nobody does, maybe nobody has this experience, but I, I feel like I certainly have. And it's like, it's oftentimes with the, here's the way Melissa put it. She was like, have we seen this movie before? Or are all these movies like this? And what she meant, I think was like that, like eighties kind of realistic buddy comedy type movie.
Sonny00:20:36Well, no, it's definitely. Like, it's definitely like a buddy cop slash road picture. And it is, it is like the, or iteration of this. Like every week, we'll talk about this. We'll talk about this. Yeah. But it definitely, it definitely is like, it is a, it is a buddy comedy slash road movie slash chase movie done at like about as good as you can do it about as about pretty much
JVL00:21:03the height with one exception, which is. Yeah. The score that Danny Elfman scores, absolute trash. Well, here's what's so weird. Yeah.
Sonny00:21:13It's, it's, it's very interesting to me because like, I think it's fine. I actually think, I think the score is fine, but it is, uh, it is so if you would, if you had given me 10 guesses to guess who had done the score, I never would have gotten it because it sounds nothing like a Danny Elfman score. I mean, we're talking about Tim Burton, like Danny Elfman has like a fairly specific sound. It's like when I, when I'm listening to, you know, when I'm watching the, when I'm watching the Spider-Man, the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies, I'm like, Oh yeah, there's Batman. And also like, or like, or the Joss Whedon Snyder cut, uh, or the, I'm sorry, the Joss Whedon Justice League, uh, movie, which they called in, uh, Danny Elfman to do the score for that. And I'm like, Oh, there's Danny Elfman. No wonder Zack Snyder wanted to die when they, uh, took it away from him. Um, and I, and like it, he has a very specific sound, but I, I never in a hundred years would have guessed like, is the like blues. The, um, whatever, whatever.
Mike00:22:10It's kind of, it's kind of almost country blues. It's very, there's like a twang to it. Yeah. It's very odd. Well, I mean, he was, so he was in, um, he was in Oingo Boingo, right. And, um, or am I, no, no, no. I always get Danny Elfman and Mark Mothersbaugh mixed up. Um, right. One of them was, one of them was in Oingo Boingo and one of them was in Devo.
Sonny00:22:33I'll, I'll look up.
Mike00:22:35Ever that. Cause like one of them, like. They were both in bands in the eighties. And I think that's how they got their start. Am I wrong on that?
Sonny00:22:43I don't know. I'm, I'm looking it up now. Oh, he was in Oingo Boingo. How about that? Danny Elfman. That's what I thought. Yeah. I had no idea. No.
Mike00:22:49Yeah. So he was in back to school as, as they were, uh, in that movie as well. Um, I think Mark Mothersbaugh is also a composer is he was in Devo. Um.
Sonny00:22:58After, after returning to Los Angeles from Africa in the, in the early 1970s, Elfman was asked by his brother, Richard to serve as the musical director of the street theater performance art troupe, the mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo.
Mike00:23:10Yeah. That was their original name. Yeah.
Sonny00:23:13Every time I see a picture of Danny, I'm looking at the Wikipedia page right now. Every time I see a picture of Danny Elfman, I'm like, that's, uh, you know what? That's exactly what I imagined Danny Elfman would look like. Ridiculous red hair. JVL looking.
JVL00:23:25I'm looking at that right now. He's an Elfman. God almighty.
Sonny00:23:28He looks so ridiculous. Uh, anyway. I had never seen Danny Elfman before. Exactly. Every time, every time I see him, I've, I have forgotten that I've seen him before and I see him a new and I'm like, Oh, he's a ridiculous.
Mike00:23:40It is kind of interesting how. Oh, go ahead. JVL.
JVL00:23:43Uh, uh, who? Uh, the, the comedian from the, uh, news radio, gay comedian. He looks like he could be Andy Dick's brother. Yeah.
Mike00:23:55Yeah.
JVL00:23:56Yeah. Um, sorry. Go ahead.
Mike00:23:58No, no. All I was going to say is that there are some of these like kind of interesting paths to film, uh, score composers. Um, like Howard. Sure. Of course was the original, uh, music director on Saturday night live. Like when it, when it, when it first started, which is like a weird, a weird also like direction for his career to go.
Sonny00:24:17So, um, he's been married to Bridget Fonda for almost 20 years.
JVL00:24:21Daniel.
Sonny00:24:22Yes.
JVL00:24:25Well, I would not have. He contains multitudes. Apparently.
Sonny00:24:28God damn you, Daniel. Apparently he is. The reason I saw him recently though, in the news is because he got, he got me too. And, uh, had to pay out. Like a, like a, a, like low six figure, uh, settlement to somebody for, uh, I don't know, sexually harassing or something, something, um, he did, he did, he did the bad things.
Mike00:24:50Um, that's, that's, that's unfortunate. See, I think, I think he kind of looks like, I think he kind of looks like carrot tops uncle. Um, I could see that too. Yeah. All right.
Sonny00:25:00Um, well anyway, so it's a good visual comedy bit we're doing right now. Anybody who's, if you're listening to this, pull up your phone and just Google Daniel
Mike00:25:06No, no, we've just given enough description for you to know what Danny Elfman looks like without looking him up. Uh, okay. So that's all I have to say. That's all that's going on in my life. And, uh, is I'm forgetting movies that I've seen.
Sonny00:25:19So why don't we talk about, you have early onset Alzheimer's. Apparently. Congratulations.
Mike00:25:24Yes. Um, uh, yeah, you thought you were getting somebody young when Vic left and I came in, but apparently I'm just, I'm also like old and my mind is going. Uh, so why don't we just talk about midnight run? Then there's nothing to talk about with the box office. Move on for the box office.
Sonny00:25:39So you don't want to talk about the box office, big box office news, Taylor Swift, number one, again, 67% drop off. Okay. You know, but number one, number one, again, uh, killers of the flower moon, number, number one, number two at $23 million. But it's interesting. So like on the one hand, you look at $23 million for killers of the flower moon and you say, well, you know, that's, that's accurate. Actually, this it's, I think it's the third best opening of Martin Scorsese's career. It's a three and a half hour are rated slow cinema, epic sort of film. So the $23 million isn't that bad on streaming in two weeks, right? It's going to be on, well, it's going to be on streaming. And I think, I think there's a 45 day window, uh, at least so, so it's like, it's not going straight to, it's not like Netflix with the Irishman it is. Uh, and it was in 3,500 screens. I mean, it was, it was the widest opening of Scorsese's career. So like there's. You look at it, you look at this and there's, there's, there's some, some good and bad, but like the, the, the other thing you have to consider here is that it's a $200 million movie. It's a $200 million movie. Geez. Now here's, here's the third thing you have to consider is that Apple doesn't give fuck about $200 million. You know what Apple, you know what $200 million is to Apple? It's like six hours of revenue.
JVL00:27:00I mean, it's, it's not the Apple pencil revenue for a week.
Sonny00:27:03I mean, it's literally, it's nothing, it's nothing. And so the, the whole. The reason they, they spent $200 million on this movie is because they wanted to be in the Martin Scorsese business. They were hoping to get Oscar, uh, buzz for the Apple, uh, TV studios, brand, whatever Apple studios, whatever it's called, um, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's essentially a giant loss leader for them. It's a, it's a way to get people into the Apple TV plus ecosystem. It's a way to, again, be in the Martin scores. Look at us. We're making the prestige movies just like Netflix did. Maybe we'll win an Oscar. Who can say? Right.
JVL00:27:38Um, I'm sorry. How did they spend 200? Where did that money go?
Sonny00:27:42They basically re rebuilt an entire Oklahoma town from the 1920s, including like the infrastructure and the system, the water and power city rebuilt, rebuilt the whole town and like vintage cars and God only knows what else. I mean, they, they weren't there. No expenses were spared. No expenses were spared.
JVL00:28:06If James Cameron spends $200 million, you see more of it on the screen. But I don't know. I haven't seen this, this movie.
Mike00:28:12So maybe, maybe not, but you were, you were kind of lukewarm on this, on killers of the flower moon. I would say Sonny.
Sonny00:28:19It's funny. I'm, I'm, I'm positive, but I'm definitely like more mixed positive than most critics who have just been rapturous over the like masterpiece, but I don't think it's a masterpiece. Um, and I think it does, it has some definite issues. I, my, my issue is I just don't like slow cinema. Slow cinema. Like there's a whole kind of sub genres, slow cinemas, a thing of quote, slow cinema. What is it? Um, it's just, it's, it's, uh, it is a, a movie that is less focused on narrative details and more focused on getting you into the vibe of a setting. You know, the, the kind of classic example here is the, the movie that's at the top of the AF or the BFI, the site and sound top 100 list, which is this movie, John Dillman, street, um, which is like a, a, it's a masterpiece of slow cinema, three hours of a woman in a kitchen cooking basically, and then she commits a murder. So, so this, this movie is not that slow, not, not that slow, but it is, uh, it's, it's, it's in the, it's in the same ballpark, um, which I don't love. Uh, but I do find, I find what he is doing in this movie very interesting. Uh, and it is, uh, you know, look, it's a movie about how. A society comes to accept and live with and benefit from evil. Just like at the, at the behest and the prodding, the only very mild prodding of people above them in the ecosystem, in the food chain, who they respect, who they look up to, who they listen to. I don't know why this sort of thing would appeal to me, frankly, uh, after the last five years. But, uh, um, uh, anyway, it's, uh, it's, it's, I, I liked it. I didn't love it. I, I prefer things like Wolf of Wall Street. Or the departed or Goodfellas, uh, to this, or like the Irishman or, uh, silence this, you know, the, of, of the two modes that Scorsese works in, I prefer frenetic action, lots of camera moves, you know, snippy, snappy, boom, boom, boom, not this. I like fast cinema. I don't like slow cinema.
Mike00:30:28All right.
JVL00:30:29Okay. Says the guy who thinks that Michael Bay is one of the great orators of his time.
Mike00:30:36Oh, that that's, that's boom explosion cinema, um, movie goes boom, boom. Okay. There's the box office. We're not talking about the box office. This is like Sub-Beacon classic movie week here. It's because we are going 35 years in the past to midnight run Sonny. You want to give us a big boy review of this 35 year old classic, uh, comedy.
Sonny00:31:03I don't know that we need to accept. We probably do because here's, so I have a funny story. I have a, I actually have a midnight run story. So when I, and my last, my last gig, uh, I was, I was running this movie website called rebeller. Some folks may remember it. Uh, and one of the, one of the guys who I had writing for me was doing this kind of regular, uh, he had this regular column and one, and one day he was like, Hey, you know, uh, I want to write about the straight to video sequels of midnight run. I was like, oh, I didn't, I didn't realize there were straight to video sequels of midnight run. I'm not really sure how you could make straight to video sequels about that movie. But okay. Uh, yeah, let's, uh, I'm, I'm excited to read about these straight to movie, uh, straight to straight to video movies. And so I'm sitting there and I'm expecting what I'm expecting are, uh, a, it's a review or is a review of a series of films about, uh, a Turkish prison. Because for the first 38 years of my life, I had mistaken midnight express for midnight run. People would be like, so you've seen midnight run, right? And I'd be like, yeah, of course I've seen midnight run. Everyone's seen midnight run, you know, but we, but I, but for some reason we had, I had never talked with anybody about it and like, and, uh, and anyway, long story short, I had not seen midnight run. So I get this, I get this review from him and it's three, it's three, it's a review of three movies starring shooter McGavin, the guy who was Christopher McDonnell or whatever in the, in the Robert De Niro role. He's he's, you know, he's a, he's a bail bondsman, he's tracking guys down and I'm like, what the fuck is this? What am I reading here? I don't understand what, what, what have they done to midnight express? Where's the Turkish man on man? What is happening? Uh, so anyway, uh, that was my, that, so at that point I actually then watched midnight run. I was like, oh yeah, this is nice.
JVL00:32:53This is nice. This is very funny because my misapprehension was exactly the same. It just didn't last 38 years. Mine lasted like 15 years in which I had no interest when people would say, do you want to see midnight run? And I just thought, I know. Thanks. Pass.
Sonny00:33:07No. Yeah. So I, anyway, that's a, apparently it's a common thing, apparently it's, but I, uh,
JVL00:33:12so anyway, well, it isn't come out within just a couple of years of each other. They, I know.
Sonny00:33:17I think it's about 10 years, 10 years apart was about 10 years.
Mike00:33:20Yeah. It's like a seventies movie.
Sonny00:33:22Um, yeah, it's, it was either like 79 or 80 or something like that because Oliver stone then made, uh, Salvador and platoon in 80. What was that? Four or five, something like that or say platoon was five. Yeah.
Mike00:33:35So, um, anyway. Well, that's fine. I mean, it's again, not the same thing as my thinking. I hadn't seen it sort of situation, but like it does, it does strike me that midnight run is not a very descriptive or even memorable title. It's a terrible title.
Sonny00:33:51Well, I still don't, I still don't even really know what it means in the context of the movie. Like Joey pants, Joey pants at one point says, so you're going to make a midnight run. And I was like, I don't under, he said the name, he just said the name of the movie.
Mike00:34:03Did you point at the screen? I don't understand.
Sonny00:34:05I still don't understand. I still don't understand what that means.
JVL00:34:07What is it?
Sonny00:34:08What is a midnight run? I don't know what that. I don't know. I actually, the one thing this movie does not do well is explain the basics of bail bond jury in a, in a way that I found satisfactory for it. All right.
JVL00:34:21So, all right. So, uh, give her a view for anybody who hasn't seen it, which I imagine most people have not.
Sonny00:34:26I feel like this is actually a pretty popular movie. I think people, I think a lot of people, anyway, midnight run, midnight run, uh, starring Robert De Niro as a hold on. I'm actually gonna just pull up the, the, um, Jack Walsh, uh, midnight run, uh, stars Robert De Niro as Jack Walsh. Uh, he has been hired by Joey pants to find a Charles Grodin, uh, who is on the run because he has stolen money from the mob. And if he goes to prison, the mob will have him killed. Uh, the, uh, he's got a, the, the bail bondsman, Joey pants has to get him back to LA before midnight. I think it's six days later or something like that, because if he doesn't, he's gonna sacrifice his, I think it was like $400,000 bail or whatever, a $400,000 bond that he put up for bail. Right. So, and he offers, he offers, uh, Jack, um, uh, $100,000 to, to get him back to Los Angeles on time. So, okay. So that's, that's the, that's the very basic story here. Robert De Niro has to fly to New York to find Charles Grodin and get him back to LA, uh, before either the Chicago mob or Yafit Koto, uh, playing FBI agent, uh, Alonzo Moseley, uh, before, before one of them gets him. And here's what I mean when I say, I don't quite understand the mechanics of bail bondery. If the FBI gets Charles Grodin before the midnight deadline, shouldn't that still secure the bond? Cause he's still then in custody. Different custody.
JVL00:36:07Yeah. It's different custody. Because he's wanted in LA County. Correct. Okay.
Sonny00:36:14So he's wanted for an LA count. So they're not all trying to get him for the same.
Mike00:36:19No, the FBI wants him because they want to get him to get close to Serrano. Like, because it's a part of building their case, the FBI's case against Serrano and that's
Sonny00:36:32separate. What does LA want him for? For that? What's he wanted for Alonzo? What's he wanted for Alonzo in LA?
Mike00:36:37I mean, it's doesn't have anything to do with Serrano. They never tell you.
Sonny00:36:41Crimes. Okay. Well, see. All right, good. So I'm glad you guys don't know either, because this is what I was like. I was like, why don't I don't understand what's happening here? Why don't they just give them to the FBI and then problem solved?
Mike00:36:50No, they, they, but they do make clear that the FBI wants him, uh, for different reasons. Right. Which was enough for me. Like it was like, okay, like, and, and I think the, the ending bears that out, right? Like when they, oh, go ahead.
Sonny00:37:04Go ahead. I just, I just took that as part of the whole thing, which is like what, what this really is, is a series of chase movies. You have, you have three different people all going after the same guy and they all have different motivations. Um, and you even have two different bail bondsman trying to get the guy. Um, uh, so the, anyway, uh, the, the, the, so that's the very short version. The longer version is that in the midst of all this, uh, Jack and Charles, two very different people, uh, get to know each other and they, they learn about themselves and blah, blah. It is a top tier, uh, buddy comedy relationship movie where the, the, you know, the, the kind of hard-boiled, uh, cop turned bail bondsman, uh, is won over by the, uh, nebbish nebbishy. Yeah. Thank you. That's a good word for it. Nebbishy accountant, uh, who, you know, wants them to live a better life, a little, live a better, healthier life and blah, blah. And I look, it's just charming. It's just charming from start to finish.
JVL00:38:06When you say comedy, people should understand it's a comedy without jokes.
Sonny00:38:09Yeah.
JVL00:38:10It's not very funny, but there are no jokes in it.
Sonny00:38:14Yes. That's yeah. It's not like airplane.
Mike00:38:17It's not, this is not, you know, not, not a lot of gags, but also, also no comedians, right?
Sonny00:38:22I mean, so, um, anyway, uh, I, I look, I like this, I like this movie a fair amount. It's just a fun hangout movie. Um, and it is a fun driving across America movie. I have, I have like another separate question just about logistics here. So there's a moment where they get from, they get from New York to Chicago, they're in Chicago, they get a car and in the car, they decide to drive to Amarillo, Texas. I don't know if you guys know where Amarillo, Texas is, but that's much more south than it is west from Chicago. Why wouldn't you just go, just go, you take like 80 to 78, uh, I don't know, 15 or something like that.
Mike00:39:03I don't know. Does it, I mean that, that kind of, I don't, I don't know. I've never driven across country. I can effort this while anyway, it doesn't matter.
Sonny00:39:11I'm, I'm just being, I'm just being persnickety here. Uh, the, uh, but I look, I like this movie. It's, it's fine and fun. I'm glad we watched it. Uh, and it really is like the or 1980s buddy high concept buddy comedy, like not quite buddy cop, but close-ish, uh, sort of movie that they made a ton of and they really don't make it. You do not find a movie like this in theaters. Anymore. They, they simply don't exist, um, as a, as a genre, it is totally disappeared. Like everything, everything like this, like movies, like, I don't, I don't even know what would be similar. Exactly. Like 48 hours, I guess, kind of, or, um, Beverly Hills cop, uh, Beverly.
Mike00:39:52I mean, again, those are the same lethal movie, like the Shanghai, uh, right.
JVL00:39:57Right.
Mike00:39:58Uh, or, uh, uh, planes, trains and automobiles. I mean, it is sort of, it comes out a year after planes, trains and automobiles and it's, again, it's not. It's not comedians. Um, and it's buddy cop, but it has a very much the same kind of formula, uh, by the way. Uh, so when you Google search driving from Chicago to Los Angeles, the main route does cut across Omaha, Denver, Las Vegas, LA 29 hours, but the alternative route, according to Google maps takes you down south across you hook up with I 40 in Oklahoma city, uh, drive right through Amarillo and that's 31 hours. So I could see 35 years ago. That being the preferred.
Sonny00:40:42Yeah.
Mike00:40:43Maybe.
Sonny00:40:44So if you don't, if you don't have a Google, they're telling you exactly which way is if
Mike00:40:47you don't want to go over the mountains.
Sonny00:40:48Anyway. Sorry. Yeah. If it's winter, you don't want to go over the mountains. All right. Look, whatever. Point is point is, um, anyway, I, I get it. I like this movie. I love every performance in this movie. Every performance. We haven't even talked about Dennis Farina who plays the mob boss, um, who is, um, I, I see a very early Phillip Baker Hall performance, right? I feel like this is one of his must be one of his first.
JVL00:41:11I'll look at this. So do you know, this is the, here's a little bit of piece of trivia. So Phillip Baker Hall, uh, star is the star of Paul Thomas Anderson's first feature movie, right? Which is we all know as heart eight, which is the, the title of the studio gave it. That is originally, uh, called Sydney. And I believe the character. Is basically pulled from midnight. I believe he's playing the same character just sort of, you know, pulled into a, a different universe, right? He is a, this guy, Sydney is a, he's in Vegas and he's kind of like a consigliere. It, it, it's just fantastic.
Sonny00:41:55Um, interestingly, he also played a character named Sydney in, uh, cigarettes and coffee in 1993. It's a short film. And Sydney Hughes. 1996 is I for an eye.
Mike00:42:08So Sydney, common name, uh, he looks like Sydney, by the way, Sydney and midnight rum spelled S I D Sydney in the Paul Thomas Anderson films. S Y D. Yeah.
Sonny00:42:21So that's exactly, that's how, you know, it's an alternate universe. Exactly. Uh, that's how, that's a different part of the multiverse season. Um, the, uh, uh, Joey pants, Joey pants is, is, uh, fantastic.
Mike00:42:32He's got his most Joey pants in this.
Sonny00:42:35I mean, it, it is. And like, again, when I say this is a kind of the or 1980, like it, it has all of this, it has very obvious screenwriting ticks and tricks that you can notice immediately as you're watching. Like for instance, in the first five minutes or so, we see Robert De Niro twice shake his watch and like, listen to it and you're like, okay, the, the, the watch clearly represents something in his, his whole psyche that he is going to resolve later with Charles Grodin and we'll find, we'll find out all about that. You can either, you can either love or hate that sort of thing, but it just is like, again, it's like you have three minutes to introduce a character and let the audience know what his, uh, his, his personality is like and everything else is, you know, you got to build, build along the way. And it was, it's, it's just so obvious once you have settled on, uh, that sort of picking up that sort of thing. But anyway, but I like it.
Mike00:43:36It's like, um, JVL you, this is the first time you saw this movie, right?
JVL00:43:41First time. And I mean, so here's the funny thing. So I watched it in two halves and after watching the first half last night, I was so charmed by it and I was trying to explain first the flash and then to Shannon, how great this movie was. And as I tried to, they both looked at me like I was just, they were like, this sounds great. And it's the kind of movie that does not sound, I mean, it does not sound like much on the page. Yes. Yeah. And it succeeds entirely because the pairing of Charles Grodin and Robert De Niro is so pleasurable and charming. As you said, Sonny on screen, you were just happy to hang out with these two characters and these two actors. Maybe one of my favorite, this is one of his first comedic performances and the thing I love. About it so much is that he is in a way that I, I don't often say about De Niro. He's not acting so much as behaving and he feels as though, you know, that thing that Robert Downey jr has like Robert Downey jr's great gift as an actor is the ability to say dialogue as if he's improv-ing and so, you know, he can be reciting, you know, 400 words verbatim from the page, but it sounds like he's just ad-libbing and De Niro sounds like he's ad-libbing throughout the entire movie. Like, he just sounds like, you know, it's so loose and, and he's, he's pre, I mean,
Mike00:45:14he's obviously so pre self-parody and, and yet he is like, he is the, he is so much in this movie, the thing that will become the self-parody, uh, you know, you do see it, but it's like, but, but that's not that, that, that I think is, is a, as an act, like it works really well.
JVL00:45:36Because it's so, it's so self-contained. I mean, he's, he does half the movie with his own, you know, with his, uh, in handcuffs and that just does a lot of look up to the side type. It's a very, very subtle performance. And I don't know. I mean, it's like Matthau and Jack lemon. They are so good together on screen. And I just, I love the crap out of it. I just, it feels like a. A perfect movie, the kind of movie that everybody would just loving and see, oh yeah, people must've fallen in love with this thing, which sounds, it's got this generic title that has is tells you nothing about it. You wouldn't think Charles Grodin is not a big star. Robert De Niro is like a serious actor, but it's supposed to be a comedy, but it's not really a comedy, but there are action beats, but you know, like everything about it just feels like it shouldn't work. And then it goes and works. And then you've Yafit Kodo. I don't know what. So my first experience with Yafit Kodo was actually late in his career with Homicide Life on the Street, in which he plays the captain of the police precinct in Baltimore. He does it all as if he's Italian.
Sonny00:46:58Okay. Okay.
JVL00:47:00Like in Homicide, he is constantly like, you know, talking about like, you know, the I got to get the bolognese and stuff. And there's a little bit of that in this, this, this predates Homicide by a few years. But he, there are beats in this where he almost feels like Brando in as, as, as the godfather. And I just, I love it. It's such a, a mannered performance in that way.
Mike00:47:30It's great.
JVL00:47:31It's great. I don't know what else to say. Michael, did you love it too? Oh yeah. I, I, I mean, again, it's like. The second time you liked it even more the second time?
Mike00:47:40Well, it was like the kind of thing where I probably could have turned it off, but I just wanted to keep watching it. It, it had, it had the feeling of actually watching, like catching a movie at the beginning on cable, you know, where you're like, oh yeah. And like, you just want to keep going like through the commercial breaks. There were no commercial breaks, but you know, it's like, yeah, I do remember this. I'm watching it. And like every, so all the scenes with, with. De Niro and Grodin together, like talking are fantastic. You just want them to go on. It, it really clicks when they are on, in the dining car on the train and they are talking. They're just going back and forth and Grodin is trying to sort of coax out of him some information about, about, about De Niro's character. And that there's like this, there's this whole thing about the smoking and, well, you know, and Grodin just like you say, he, like he's so, he's so, um, restrained and he kind of like his mouth stays kind of, his jaw stays kind of, uh, still and clipped. And he sort of, you know, what does he say? He's like, um, you know, well, don't you, you know, you know, it's bad for you, but yet you still do it. That seems pretty foolish to me. Like that whole, like it, the restraint, the kind of waspy restraint that is, and then at the, you know, you can kind of see it coming, but like the later in the scene when De Niro throws it right back at him, like, it's just, it's so like you get the feeling they're talking about
JVL00:49:13stealing from the mob. Same thing.
Mike00:49:14Right, exactly. Exactly. Uh, and, and like he repeats the same words back to just the whole thing has like a, um, uh, has a rhythm to it and, uh, and a chemistry to it. That's like watching sex with animals. Did you want to fuck those chickens out there?
JVL00:49:31Like it's so good.
Mike00:49:34It's so great. It's so great. So I, I just, I think it's, it is like a near perfect movie and the Sonny, you said this, right? Like no jokes and it's hilarious. Maybe you said that JVL, but like it's like a constantly, like even just watching Yafit Koto's like face, just, you know, like boiling over every time there's two idiots who work for him at the FBI, you know? Um, ah, it's so great.
JVL00:50:00And, um, Dennis Farina and Dennis Farina too. How about the, how about, so the two button man. For the mob who are government and the one, the one has something going on. Like he has clearly developed an entire backstory for his character and we never really get it. Like there's that, you know, he's the one who keeps like looking weird at De Niro and then he's like posing with a cowboy hat.
Mike00:50:24He calls him somebody says the Sundance get each. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JVL00:50:32Yeah.
Mike00:50:32It gets real close to De Niro.
JVL00:50:33Yeah, we get through like everything, by the way. But you people, you guys thought I was crazy. Yafa Cotto's character in homicide life on the street was named Al Giardello, Alphonse Giardello. And he, uh, the character is, uh, his, his mom was Sicilian and his dad was black. Uh, and so the, the carrots of the, the not Yafa Cotto's, but, uh, but this is the character in Baltimore. And so he like, he's this giant imposing black man. Who's like really into his. Italian heritage. That's great. That's great.
Mike00:51:09Uh, but, but can I say for Dennis Farina, by the way, like, it's so, it's so interesting. I mean, look, there's, I know there are other movies about Chicago mobsters, but like to like, like to, uh, it's, it was, it stuck out to me because he has such that distinct Chicago accent. You know, like to have him as like the big heavy in this, it just, it like, I, I, I just loved it. It felt, um, it felt different. You know, then, then like your standard mob movie or a certain, like, you know, your, even your, you know, De Niro mob movie. So I love Dennis Farina is great. Like the, has the perfect amount of like simmering rage and then it boils over, you know, at the right times. So great. Can I also say the, um, the beats that this movie takes, like when, when they go visit the ex-wife and the eight, eighth grade daughter walks, like that whole scene, like does. Should not belong in this movie, right? Like it should, it's, it, it doesn't belong. It's like it, it, it, it is, it is like a little slow and it's, um, it kind of builds and it's perfect. It, it, it just gives you this extra, you know, texture to, uh, but there's no hugging and learning, right?
JVL00:52:26That's like, there's no, no, no, no, no. This is, you know, so he has stopped in and what happens, people haven't seen it. The character is Robert De Niro's character was a cop in Chicago and. He got run out of the city because his entire department, like in Gotham, his entire department was corrupt and on the payroll and he wouldn't, he wouldn't take the money. And so they framed him and said, you know, you, you should get out of town or we're going to put you in jail. And his, so he left his wife and they got divorced and she went and remarried one of the cops who was on the payroll and there is no getting back together. Like, it's not like they see each other and, you know, like, oh, he realizes what he's missing out on. There isn't a happy ending there, you know?
Mike00:53:07No, but there is, there is, there is, it's not love, but there's something there, right? That, that, that still connects them and it's the daughter and it's the, you know, he's there, he needs the money. She gives him the car and a little bit of money and. I can't take his kid's money when she. Oh God. That wrecked me. Not right. And it, but it, it works. It's so great. And, but my favorite part of that scene, we're going to break down every scene here, but my favorite part of that scene. Is when he walks over to the daughter in, in the room and she's sort of speechless and, and he goes to hug her. There is hugging. And, um, you can see in the background that, uh, the ex-wife, like she has started crying and they don't linger on it, but, but it's like, it's just like a little, there's a little detail there that, uh, I, I, I don't know. I love this movie. I thought it was, uh, it was so much better than it has to be. And Charles Grodin was just. Uh, he was just great.
JVL00:54:07Martin breast is really like, this has to be his best film and he is like the perfect touch, right? And he's got such a light touch throughout.
Mike00:54:18Well, it's interesting because I, I, I was reading afterward. I think you have at Cotto said that, uh, that it was kind of hell making the movie because Marty breast was like demanding take after take after take. Um, and it was like, like to a ridiculous point.
JVL00:54:35So I don't know what that means, but Sonny, can you tell us about the sequels? Because one of the things I was thinking about as I was watching this is that this is the kind of movie which gets made and becomes a huge success. And it was a pretty, pretty successful film. And then sequels get made of it, even though there shouldn't and couldn't be a sequel to it. Right. In the same, we get like Beverly Hills cop to Beverly Hills cop three, like this is the, the, the 1980s demanded sequels to. These things. And so the fact that there were direct to video sequels is fascinating to me and I would love to learn about it.
Sonny00:55:11Yeah. I mean, I like, I would have to go back and reread that piece, but basically what happened was there was a moment when TNT or USA or somebody was going to make a midnight run TV show. And they hire Christopher McDonald again, who plays shooter McGavin from happy Gilmore. And, and they're like, all right, you're going to be, you're going to be James. We're going to, we're going to make, you got to shoot a pilot. We're going to, and the, the, the show doesn't get picked up, but they turn the pilot into a movie and the movie is like pretty, pretty well received and pretty successful. And like people, people liked it. So instead of doing, instead of turning it into a show, they just did several of these. And then like this, I mean, this is the golden age of DVDs, right? So like you, you have this business model where you can make a movie like this for five or $6 million or whatever, and then you sell it on DVD. You put together three midnight run, three more midnight runs. I think they called it the midnight run action pack or something like that. And you, and you, you sell them for, you know, 20 bucks, three movies. Maybe you, you, you wrap the original in there too. So you have like Robert De Niro on the cover. It's like Robert De Niro and midnight run. And then three more midnight run movies. And you're like, wow, there were four Robert De Niro midnight run movies. No way. It turns out now.
Mike00:56:31By the way, the other, the other cast members of note in. In, in another midnight run, uh, Jeffrey Tambor. What? Yes. And Dan Hedaya, Hedaya, Hedaya, um, uh, who plays, who plays, uh, Joey Pants' character. Uh, yeah.
Sonny00:56:51So I, I don't think, I, I think Christopher McDonald was only in two of them. So hold on. I'm, I'm pulling up the Wikipedia now, uh, just to refresh my memory. I don't. Maybe he is. I don't know.
Mike00:57:07The last one.
Sonny00:57:08I can't remember if he was in all three. Uh, but the, anyway, long story short, it was this weird, it's this weird moment of like, you, you can make tons of money on DVD. Uh, you know, the, the cable networks are all want extra stuff and it just, it comes together. Um, the, if I remember correctly, the, uh, my, my guy really liked them. He, that's why I wanted to write about them. So there, you know, they're still out there somewhere. You can probably get them for, you know, 60 cents on.
Mike00:57:35One, one question I have going back to the original. Um, so the other, the other bondsman, uh, door Dorfman, door floor door floor. Um, who is he like the, that act? Like, I don't think I've ever seen him. I mean, he's, he's very good. He's very entertaining in this role. Like, I feel like he, he makes the most of it.
JVL00:57:57Um, if Martin Mull had been a B movie action star, maybe he's still working.
Sonny00:58:05He's still making, I'm looking it up.
Mike00:58:07John Ashton, you know, I don't know, but like, it's like, it's like even he like is, is terrific in it. So I don't know.
Sonny00:58:14It's just, it's, it, there's a lot of great actors and, um, uh, he was, oh, he, you know what he was where I remember him from now is, uh, he was in little big league. He's like the, the manager, maybe little big league, little big league.
Mike00:58:29Oh, I remember a little big league.
Sonny00:58:33Also Dennis, Dennis Farina also. No, he's the pitching coach. He's the pitching coach.
Mike00:58:37Oh, wait, no, I'm mixing it up. I'm mixing little big league up.
Sonny00:58:39No, that's, that's rookie of the year. The rookie of the year.
Mike00:58:41Oh, okay. Well, okay. They made a bunch of, they made a bunch of baseball movies for kids.
Sonny00:58:45You sure it wasn't the Sandlot that you're thinking of? You son of a bitch. Golden age of baseball movies. Yeah.
Mike00:58:53But can we just say though that nobody, you're to repeat what you guys have said. Nobody makes movies like this anymore. You can't even imagine them making movies like this and the sort of like exploiting. Explosion of high end television, like doesn't actually supplement or, or, you know, like it doesn't fill, there's no, nothing in TV that fills the role of a movie like this. Like it needs to be a movie. It needs to be a, you know, a hundred and 10 minute movie to do something like this. I don't know.
JVL00:59:27Netflix could make 10 of these a year. I've never seen them because I never know about them. They choose to do red notice instead.
Sonny00:59:35Well, where, where Netflix spends that money is on romantic comedies for women. I mean, like that, that's their actual bread and butter.
JVL00:59:43Like they make B movies, right? I mean, they're making the, the romantic comedies they make for women are not like actual, they are Hallmark channel level productions.
Sonny00:59:54Yes.
JVL00:59:55Whereas for, you know, to just go and find two, two actors with a lot of chemistry and give them a movie like this that does not require. $80 million of CGI, right? You, you could, they could just make these, they could choose to make these and instead they go and they're like, well, the algorithm says people like Gal Gadot and the rock and Ryan, what's his face. And so we'll just put something together and put them in front of green screens and, you know, we'll spend $250 million on that and that'll be a, we'll do that instead.
Mike01:00:29Yeah. I mean, look, even what you just described of like, let's get two people, like I, as far as I understand the movie didn't even, I mean the movie, the origin of the movie is like, it is like the script came first and then they like found like, like everybody kind of found it to like, even like the process of making this movie, it doesn't even work that way anymore. And I just, I don't know. It doesn't seem like it could work.
JVL01:00:53I can say, I have to, man, I can't imagine reading this script and thinking that there would be a movie in it though, because I think on the page, this doesn't feel like it works. Right. Yeah. No, but it does. No, but it's because of in your own red works.
Sonny01:01:11You know what that, you know what, you know, what is great stars, movie stars, actual, you know, actors of renown, they can, they can carry these things. Right.
Mike01:01:20Anything, anything we want to say about Charles Grodin before we, uh, before we finish this,
Sonny01:01:26the one thing, I mean, the, the way he delivers his lines throughout, uh, it's, it's the only reason why the freak out on the airplane works. Yeah. You, because like, he's so subdued and like, he's just like, he's very Zen really through so much of the movie up till then. And then when he starts freaking out, it's like, okay, well this, maybe this is real. And then it turns out, obviously not.
JVL01:01:48He steals the plane after that. It took me a minute to, to like, for it to click into me why that is so funny. And then, then of course I realized that he, he's a pilot.
?01:02:00Right.
Mike01:02:02All right. Well, uh, I guess that's all the time. We're going to give to this episode, go to subbeacon.com, not to Midnight Express.
JVL01:02:11Midnight, Midnight Express is not a very fun movie that succeeds on charm.
Sonny01:02:17No, right. Different sort of movie. Yep.
JVL01:02:21Exactly.
Mike01:02:22Uh, okay. Let's, uh, or Midnight Cowboy, right? The Midnight Trilogy.
JVL01:02:27Yeah. The seventies slash eighties. They should package that in it.
Sonny01:02:30Three DVDs. Midnight Action Pack.
Mike01:02:35All right. Uh, okay. We'll, uh, yeah, we'll, uh, see you next time. Um, I, so Charles Grote, it was funny. Um, uh, Melissa said there were a couple of times where she was like, which I think tells you like our age. She was like, oh, he's, uh, it's, he's, he's Beethoven dad. Like there, but it's like that. Like there are like moments at the end where he's like started to lose his mind. lose it where he is that like you know because that's the whole thing in the movie beethoven is he's like oh this dog um but i loved i loved um that dog got into everything what a wacky dog hey
Sonny01:03:19we should make several more beethoven that talk speaking of straight to dvd franchises beethoven's
Mike01:03:26like 17th or whatever that's ridiculous um but uh you know that they started that just so they could get to beethoven's fifth you know it was like we we we got to do four more of these movies we get to beethoven's fifth because that would be awesome um but i love uh so my favorite muppet movie the great muppet caper charles groden is in that and uh he's terrific in that movie because he's like he's the american accented brother of diana rigg who was the who was like a british actress and like is like the star anyway and like and then he like falls in diana rigg he falls in love with miss piggy like it's so ridiculous and it's so funny and he plays it straight and then um
Sonny01:04:06what am i misremembering did charles groden have a talk show yes on ms on cnbc on like on cnbc on on one of the you know one of the the late night what was that like i never watched it i i never watched it either i don't i don't know many people did which which is why i was like
JVL01:04:24kind of i couldn't quite remember but it was a cult thing like people loved it i guess i think it had a cult following but i didn't
Mike01:04:32i don't know why because i think it was just it was so odd like to have him hosting like to have like this guy like this i don't even know what you call he's not a movie star but he's like this like well-known actor like hosting uh like issues you know talk about the issues of the day show on it's like weird but i don't know i never watched it i'm sure it's fine
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