#199. 'Oppenheimer'
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This episode covers Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer against the backdrop of the record-shattering "Barbenheimer" opening weekend ($162 million for Barbie, $82 million for Oppenheimer, together one of the four or five biggest weekends in box office history), and the hosts split sharply on the film itself: Sonny calls it a "staggering piece of work" and an early lock for his best-of-the-year list, marveling that a three-hour, R-rated, largely black-and-white biopic with no true movie star in the lead could work at all, and singling out the ensemble (Cillian Murphy, Robert Downey Jr., Matt Damon, Macon Blair, Emily Blunt, Florence Pugh) and the propulsive editing and score; JVL is far cooler, saying flatly "it's fine," complaining the film is overlong, that the score tricks you into thinking things are happening, and that despite Sonny's defense the movie is too soft on the real communist infiltration around Oppenheimer — JVL admits he found himself rooting for the "villain" Strauss (Robert Downey Jr.) throughout; Mike lands in between, saying he couldn't stop turning the film over in his head afterward and read it less as history than as a psychological character study of a brilliant man losing control of the consequences of his own genius, and pushes back on JVL's read of the Truman scene and on how "whitewashed" the communist material really is. Along the way they dig into Matt Damon's Groves as the film's most decent figure, RDJ's career-best turn as Strauss, a lukewarm take on Florence Pugh feeling too modern for a 1930s communist, the Teller/Strauss "they were right about mutually assured destruction" argument, and the WWI-rooted origins of interwar communism and fascism that JVL wishes the movie had gotten into. The first third is dominated by an extended, increasingly outraged saga of Sonny's broken HVAC system — the repair fan motor is blocked by a water heater installed just twelve inches from the access panel, forcing him to schedule plumbers and AC techs in a precarious same-day sequence while recording in an 88-90 degree room, cooling himself with a frozen Gatorade bottle at his feet — plus Mike recounting a softball injury, a golf-ball-sized swelling on his wrist after a 350-pound base runner barreled through him at home plate (which he insists he tagged out before the run scored), leaving him in a compression glove and forcing his team to forfeit their remaining makeup games.
From the show notes
It's a boppenheimer. (Damn you, Mike.) Also, for illustrative purposes:
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00I have a 12 month head start 18. How could you possibly know that? We've got one hope All America's industrial-minded scientific innovation connected here secret laboratory Keep everyone there until it's done Let's go recruit some scientists
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Mike00:00:32Welcome to the sub beacon podcast. I am your co-host Mike Warren I'm joined as always by my two co-hosts Jonathan V last who was not a card-carrying member of the Communist Party and Sonny Bunch who despite his best efforts did not become death destroyer of worlds We'll be talking a little bit later about Oppenheimer But first go to sub beacon calm become a patron Join the community you can get episodes when they come out first if you're a patron at sub beacon calm You'll get access exclusive access to our bonus episodes when we do those drafts you get to vote and have your Opinions sometimes wrong opinions about who wins those fun drafts we do for the bonus episodes So join us at sub beacon calm. Like I said, we're gonna be talking about Oppenheimer But first we We got to figure out what's what's going on with everybody Sonny? Why don't we start with you? What is going on in your life right now Sonny much bad things bad things bad things are happening
JVL00:01:42Oh, man So, uh, you know, can you as the image for this show on the website Sonny make it that picture? You sent us of your utility space. Yeah, I'll include that short
Sonny00:01:54No, it's it's bad. So, you know, I I have had kind of an ongoing struggle with My air conditioning system over the last, you know, almost four years since I was three and a half years now lived in, Texas at first there was a there was there was an issue that it was tripping the The Circuit breaker out in the back in the backyard, right? This so the separate circuit breaker just for the air conditioner was being tripped and a guy came out This is the first year. We lived here guy came out and was like, yeah, you need a new fan Little little we'll put in a new fan little Motor it's covered by your warranty this cell phone So that that was fine that that was a day or we had a day or two in the middle of like hundred degree weather With no air conditioning, but that you know, whatever it happens new house stuff So then earlier this summer that happened again guy came out was like, oh, yeah, your circuit boards all loose in here So he put the circuit board back into everything worked fine again. It was like no no more issues and then this Sunday evening or either late Sunday evening or early Monday morning At some point the HVAC system inside the house, which again these were these were outside problems These were the condenser outside right, you know the big thing in the in the outside the the The HVAC system inside the house It runs the heat and the and the cooling starts making this terrible the fan inside. It starts making this terrible noise I mean like off like Like that sort of noise right not not what you like to hear not ideal So we turn it off we turn the system off. I turn it back on On in the morning, and it was still making that noise And I was like all right well we got a we got to get somebody out here
JVL00:03:34So we get we get somebody out that the sound was that was the sound of money burning
Sonny00:03:39Basically more or less well so we get we get the guy we get a guy to come out the the again though the home warranty company which I foolishly continued paying you know like the the like $400 a year or whatever in in in fees and premiums, but like it's gonna pay off because this is gonna Be like a $1,200 repair, so you know the the guy comes out, and he's like yeah That sounds like your motors bad. Let's take a look at it so he goes to the he goes to this the the closet where my Where the it's it's basically off of my bedroom not it's not in my bedroom. It's like off of my bedroom in a walk-in closet Like off of the walk-in closet anyway sure um he looks at it, and just like his shoulder slump, and I'm like oh no That's not a good. You never like to see that From your from your repair guy, so he's just looking at he's like Okay, let me let me see if I can get the the litter because what has happened And I knew I kind of knew this I kind of understood this cuz I've been in there And I've seen what's what's going on in that room, but I hadn't quite understand the severity of the issue The the I don't know how to describe this you'll see it in the picture I guess if I if I put that up, but the the water heater is literally like 12 inches 12 inches from the the front of the HVAC system where you know you guys have a picture of this the access you have to say Sonny is not
JVL00:05:04making not even I Get not exaggerating it. I think Sonny is under playing like it's literally I mean it may not even be 12 inches
Sonny00:05:13I mean it may be less than that But like if you take the panel off to get into where the motor is it's you literally Could not you could not get the motor 1/3 of the way out without Like it just simply wouldn't I frankly don't know how they Got the hot water heater in there. I like I don't think I got it in there second because what they did Yes, they did, but I don't know how honestly it's like almost tuned I don't I don't think there's enough space in there to put it. So anyway, the guy's like, yeah Well, he like tests the motor. He's like, yeah, it looks like this needs to be replaced. But like I can't do it man I literally I can't I literally physically cannot do it. So I was like, okay, he's like, yeah You got to move this water heater. I mean we can you we can't do this We're not we're not set up to do this, but you could have somebody come out We'll move the water heater will replace the fan and you can put the water heater back water heater back in
JVL00:06:03Just like musical chairs. I was like just a musical chair. I was like, that's that's a dumb idea
Sonny00:06:08That's and he was like, yeah. No, that is a dumb idea. I wouldn't recommend doing that You could do that. You could do that, but I wouldn't recommend doing it. So I was like, all right Well, let me get a plumber out here. So Then later that day actually this is all still on Monday later that day We get a plumber out and he's like Yeah There are a couple things we could do we could we could move we could move this existing water heater into another closet That's that's kind of off the hallway that old thing. You know, you'll have to thankless water heater You'll have to pay or you can put in a tankless water heater and and And and do that that way, you know, those are those are Higher maintenance. We don't we don't love them necessarily are more expensive, but like they're smaller they so anyway That's on that's Monday again But he was like you could also put an electric water heater in in here in this new closet And we'll have to run a little bit of extra We'll have to run out. We'll have to get an electrician out here to run a new line anyway long story short It's now Thursday midday, and I have just finally managed to schedule getting a Getting a plumber out to come on Friday To remove the water heater Remove the water heater and put it in this other closet Also on Friday Hopefully between the hours of 1:00 and 3:00 p.m The air conditioner guy is gonna come back and see if he can either repair or replace that fan motor, right? So I'm I've now I've now created this situation that is incredibly dicey incredibly dicey because I have to I would not only do the Do the plumbers have to show up on time and remove the water here before like 1:00? The air conditioner guy has to show up between 1:00 and 3:00 and replace it. Hopefully fingers crossed We'll have air conditioning again Friday night. I am NOT getting my hopes up because this is all Sequencing this is so much sequence This is a sequence of events that almost certainly will take as I said as I again if you see the picture you look at The picture you'll see what I'm talking about. I I am NOT I'm not entirely convinced They're gonna be able to get that water heater out. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen. I
JVL00:08:24I have a couple questions here sure and I'm sure Mike I do too that you also have many questions Yeah, my first question is did you do a home inspection? Did you bought the house we did a home inspection and when you saw that well, I was the first time
Sonny00:08:40I was not there for the home inspection. So it was remote
JVL00:08:44That's did the home inspector not look at that and say I'd have to go back and look at the look at the
Sonny00:08:51Report it's the sort of thing that would not have stopped us from getting the house Anyway, because we had submitted a bid that was later. We're taking we're taking the house, you know fair Either we're either taking the house or we're not taking the house, but we're not gonna do any
JVL00:09:03I understand that Texas's state motto is live free or die or something like that. Mm-hmm. No Remember the Alamo No some it's something but they love their freedom in Texas. Yeah Do they not have building codes because I cannot imagine
Sonny00:09:23There's this is to code zero percent chance. This is up to code. There are building codes We had inspectors come out when we remodeled our bathroom and they your house is not a hundred years old, right?
JVL00:09:33It couldn't have been grandfathered in like no no that water chose to build this their water heater is a
Sonny00:09:402017 model so that was put in three years somebody looked at that and said yeah, let's just keep rolling with this
JVL00:09:47Yes Michael were you as but you're just quiet over there. I expected you You as a man who understands plumbing and all these things much better than Sonny And I do to be outraged that somebody would have done this to Santino. I'm you act like I'm Bob Vila
Mike00:10:03I'm not Bob Vila, but I Was I'm more just like first of all like I can actually see how this happened, which is just a homeowner who didn't know any better got a contractor who Didn't have any scruples to like put all this Where it is like like cutting corners like obvious like that is what people do in In in this world like like you you do have to pay a little bit Right to get somebody who actually like does the right thing you have to know a little bit I guess but like this is insane like I can't imagine I can't imagine Like somebody looking at homeowner looking at that being like ah, I'm pleased now. Thank you. Good job. Here's your check. So The other option I thought of is Well, look, I don't know. I mean, I don't have a full orientation of where it is in the house
Sonny00:10:59So it's so it's upstairs. No, I one floor one one-story house. You have a ranch
Mike00:11:05Like mine, okay, and so but this is not it doesn't have a basement either. No base. No basement. So So your HVAC is So is there any other utility? stuff in the house
Sonny00:11:22No, I don't I don't think so. I don't know what you mean. I like the power the power you know Panel is in the power panels in the garage. Oh the electricity panels in the garage. This is there's no furnace There's no no, there's no furnace. There's there's this again. There's some pump cuz you don't have a because I don't have a basement
Mike00:11:41Yeah, all that stuff Yeah, I mean I just this looks to me like a classic case of corner cutting by somebody but now you're I don't
Sonny00:11:51Even understand why you would cut that corner like I don't it doesn't even make it couldn't have possibly have been easier to put it There then somewhere else. What is the age of the house? When was the house built? 1960 something
JVL00:12:04So it was built without central air. Yeah, almost certainly. Yeah. Yeah, and so they introduced central air Do you know when this HVAC system was put in well that HVAC is dated?
Sonny00:12:15But they must there must have been AC in here before 2013. Maybe not
JVL00:12:20Was the house renovated and and like gutted and flipped in 2013. I don't think so. I don't think yes. I wonder if They that's where the water heater always was right, but then somebody decided okay We're gonna we got to renovate this so we can sell it into a hot market We got to put AC and they put the AC there and they were gonna replace the water heater Anyway, or something like that and so just like put it in here and it'll be the next owners problem, right? Cuz 2013 you're still in the throes of the housing bubble when nobody can Can accept condition right? No buyers can impose conditions on right that that makes that makes sense to me
Mike00:13:01When is there are there signs that the wall has been has been rebuilt or newly?
JVL00:13:08Added or can you get stuff out of there without demoing that wall? I?
Sonny00:13:14I hope so Like I said, it's very so the guy the plumber who was out here Yes, Wednesday Was like yeah I think it looks like it can it's just big enough to get like the space is just big enough to get this out We'll be able to get it out, but But he was just looking at and shaking his head too. So this is the second plumber we had come out
Mike00:13:40He was just shaking his head like what is the where is that? Where's the one hot water heater going?
Sonny00:13:46It's going in a it's going in a closet in the hall It's probably where it should have been in the first place So there's there it's gonna be like it we're gonna have like a utility closet off the main hall
JVL00:13:54Basically is where is where it's gonna where it's gonna end up. Okay. I gotta say when you sent us that picture I got viscerally angry
Sonny00:14:05Done this to you. It's insane. I just don't understand. I don't understand how it how it happened. I really don't it's an affront
JVL00:14:12To God and nature. Would you agree Michael that somebody would do like what?
Mike00:14:18Does this I you know who does this this is what I'm trying to tell you people who are cheap people who cut corners I've run into them in the past. I've hired people who then tried to do Insane things and you go, why would you do that? Or why would you think to start doing that? I and it's because we what I'd expect that from an unscrupulous
JVL00:14:39Contractor up in New Jersey. I would not expect that sort of behavior and well, this is God fearing Texas
Sonny00:14:47Raised up, right? So this is this is both of the both of the plumbers who came out like shook their heads and we're like You know when people do this it gives us all a bad name because I I can't I can't understand why this would have why This would be put this way. I mean it really is I
Mike00:15:03By the way, by the way, I believe Actually that they that that that that's the opposite of what those plumbers said Like those plumbers need the bad plumbers to be able to say that line fix it because I ever I have Heard that line from contractors for you. Ah, you know when people cut corners like this They give all of us a bad name and I go bow, but you're not one of those. Are you? No, sir
JVL00:15:25You aren't no true Scotsman is a contractor, right?
Sonny00:15:28The other thing, you know the thing that's that's also weird about Texas and I guess this this is true Like everywhere in Dallas like no, no houses have basements here and it has something to do with like the soil is - I don't know I don't understand why why not but I first or something but like I I wouldn't wouldn't you want a basement in in Dallas for all the tornadoes and you know, that sort of thing isn't I don't understand why
JVL00:15:52Probably just land is so cheap that you build in the cheapest way possible and cheap in Dallas though
Sonny00:15:59I mean, I like it was
JVL00:16:02Historically though, right?
Sonny00:16:04You still don't put you like even when they when they demo these houses and build new ones They're still not putting basements in them. Apparently. It's like very expensive to do this. I don't understand why Is is what it comes down to?
JVL00:16:16Sonny I you are strapping one on to tape this in what must be used be Wallowing in your own sweat while you're taping it currently you are essentially like Alec Guinness in Bridge on the River Kwai in the sweatbox
Sonny00:16:30It is it's currently heroic. It's 88 degrees in the rest of the house It's probably like 90 in this room right now and I showed but I showed Mike before we got on before we got on the show I actually I actually got I last night I froze a You know port sized or whatever. This is a 30 ounce sized Gatorade bottle I put water in it and it froze it and I now just have it resting In but it's cradled by my feet next to a fan that you might be hearing some background I'm on I'm gonna try and filter that out in the episode Hopefully folks won't have to listen to it at home But if you hear if you hear some some Franklin is and some ice being chewed or drunk shook. That's me
Mike00:17:13That's me folks. Where's your where's your hand? Fan, you know what you got a you got a sort of like you're out on the front porch, you know
Sonny00:17:20I know it's hot. It's hot out here. I don't know. I don't have it's not it's isn't New Orleans
Mike00:17:27All right, Sonny that I'm fantastic JVL what what's going on where you cannot be anywhere as bad
JVL00:17:32No, I I have I have nothing. I wanted to talk to you about your injury. Oh my injury. How are you doing? Oh, you're you're actually in a brace and everything
Mike00:17:44It's a compression glove. It's a compression What did you do? So this was Sunday So we're not that we're taping this on Thursday. So this is four and a half days So it's two games against the swingers again. We had to face the swingers one more time and by the way, mmm
JVL00:18:03One of my girls was wearing a swimsuit with a pineapple on it the other day and now I can't Every time I look at that talk about rumors you take No, no more pineapples Ruined you ruined that for me Michael only if it's upside down
Mike00:18:23So the swingers are by the way gunning for the championship again And I believe I mentioned last week that I found out that we are essentially playing up a level. Yes where we should be So that was evident we are actually winning the first game and we blew it with like a a time management problem like we basically What we need to do was stretch out our Inning at the plate for as long as possible, but we we just didn't and we basically had like four minutes to go and I think we we wrapped up the inning in in three minutes and then and Then we had to go play a whole nother full ending and that's when they came back and won So they won the first game and we're feeling pretty down because they are like really like firing on all cylinders I'm back to playing catcher and in the middle of the second game I I'm playing Behind the plate and there's a good hit into the outfield. I think a runner runs from second and he's rounding third to come home the ball comes back in and I catch it and I'm kind of standing to facing facing outfield. I'm standing kind of to the right of home plate to catch the Ball from from the fielder from the outfielder and I can see I can see our guy our base runner running toward I think oh I got this guy He's a big guy Does he have a hundred pounds on me? Absolutely. Does he have more than that and not probably dual home plates?
JVL00:20:06This is a single home plate. Yes, we
Mike00:20:09Yes, so this is not a league that has the fields that we play on don't have the dual home plate Which? Which is regrettable as you'll see now you understand why they make those. Oh totally totally So I know that I have the time I can I got into my glove I can reach over It's my I'm a righty So the gloves in the left hand and I reach over and kind of Shuffle over to the other side of home plate to try to tag him And he's close and he's barreling and he's not slowing down and he's going full speed
?00:20:46I
Mike00:20:47Will submit and I will believe this to my dying day that I tagged him out before he crossed home plate He wasn't called out The my pitcher did not think I got him out. My third baseman did So you be the judge I am convinced that I I did and I think he knew that I tagged him out Because in the split second right after I did it he leans into me and Knocks me on my ass With the force of again a three hundred and fifty pounder like this This boy is big and he is barreling into me. And so I'm knocked to my ass I Get up. Everyone's like, oh, I'm like, I can't believe they didn't call him out. That's like my first thought and But you held on to the ball, right? Oh, yeah, the balls in my glove. I got it I got it. They just said that he touched the plate before but did you do anything? Call up to New York. No, but I know there was talk of that. No, but I was too shocked It was sort of like, you know, my dad I'm like, oh man, I knocked the wind out of me
Sonny00:21:54Wait, I'm sorry. Can I just just I I may have missed this as you were discussing it But did are you are you in front of the plate? Are you like blocking home plate or are you kind of on the side? I am like standing
Mike00:22:07I'm like standing almost over home plate, but not so I am reaching my arm out Kind of across home plate from the right Side as he's coming in from third, so it is not a clean. I'm standing right in front of him between him and home plate but The ball is in my glove. The glove is across home is over home plate reaching over and Tagging him before his foot. Okay touches home plate. So you're not I guess my question is you're not you're not doing like a pudge
Sonny00:22:38Rodriguez style like
Mike00:22:42That would have been even less advised than than what I did what I should have done is just stepped out of the way Pussed out and let him score because as soon as I get up and I'm like, oh, okay Wait a second, and I'm like got my glove on like God that really hurts I take a few more pitches. We end the ending. Wow. This really hurts. I was oh, you all right. You all right? We're going into the dugout. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah And I start rubbing I start looking there is a golf ball growing on my wrist Oh And I'm like, that's not good and I try to pick up a bat and I can barely hold the bat And I'm like, that's really bad
JVL00:23:28So I tell was he apologetic for running you down and bop it like what was the give me before you? So there's the incident. Mm-hmm. He hits you you don't argue the call or whatever You're you're I know how you roll you play the game the right way. Does this guy say hey, man, you okay? Does he? check on you and No
Mike00:23:48not until the end of the game as We're as we're good gaming and going he reaches over and gives me a hug, which I thought was nice He said he felt bad and I said, it's okay. It's okay So maybe he didn't or maybe he did and this conscience was getting to him lean into it But there was really no call for him to like barrel like knock me over like they were winning they're going to win the championship and like It was a little much and as I said, I was I was talking to our Captain who is the one who roped me into this team in the first place later? He was like they were doing all kinds of stuff throughout that game. That was like way More intense than it should have been, you know Just hard throws and one guy got like nailed in the foot from a hard throw playing third. Anyway, it was like Again, we're playing up At a level of competitiveness that like nobody was really signed up But he was he was he felt bad and he said he said he all right. I was like, yeah, I'm fine but meanwhile I'm just like icing it out of the beer cooler like just ice one thing of ice after the other and I told him I Said like I I got to pull myself out like I cannot play. I can't hold I can't hold my glove up. I can't hold the bat Barely hold the bat. I certainly can't swing and they're like, okay Uh, how about this though? How about you stand at the plate and just take strikes? Because there's the likelihood you get you walk But we don't have enough we don't have any replacement players So you'll get an automatic out because we've already started the game Under the under the rules of this league So it's either an automatic out or just stand there take the strikes. You can't sub that this this league doesn't have substitution It does, but we don't have enough players. Oh, oh, that's right. Because your your ringer boys are gone, right? Your boys are gone. I mean, it's a struggle just to get enough players. I've got you so Um, so I stood there And I almost walked both times, but they struck me out. So, um And after that I got home And I was in a lot of pain And the next day my lovely, uh wife went out and got me this compression glove. You guys can see my hand is Anything broken? Have you gone to the doctor? No, I haven't gone to the doctor. I don't think okay
Sonny00:26:21Why would you?
Mike00:26:22No, like I could tell like I I would be screaming in pain like it wasn't screaming pain Um, it's it's it's bruised. It may have been sprained
Sonny00:26:31Um could have a micro fracture
Mike00:26:34I could have a micro fracture, but probably not. Um, I mean michael. I don't want to tell you what to do. Sure grown man
JVL00:26:41But you're a writer this this is the Kind of injury that affects your livelihood
Mike00:26:48Well, that's why this is the kind of injury that we need to be able to type type type with our little fingers on The keyboard I know but once I put this on I was able to type. Okay, it stabilizes. It's fine It's just my my hand is like all puffy now
Sonny00:27:02And um, I can't just cutting off circulation to the rest of your hand. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine
Mike00:27:07No, my finger my finger my fingers are puffy too. Like they're only they're only I can't get my wedding band off
Sonny00:27:11Two days from now. It's like yeah, my fingers are black and they're starting to Smell a little bit. It's fine But I will say wind up with a terminator hand the swelling on my wrist
Mike00:27:22The golf ball has gone down like it started to go down the next day. So like I felt like Let me Buster Bluth was a hawk So so that's my injury it is it's not been great in terms of like it was really hard for two days to pick up a Baby, so that are you done for the season? Finally? So how come Amy softball week finished because I have to
JVL00:27:45Say as I predicted this was a terrible experience for you, and you should never have done it
Mike00:27:49No, I loved it Except for the end, but I had I did have a feeling I had a sort of Oppenheimer like feeling that like like visions that I Was going to get injured and that that's what happened the so we have so we have two sets of makeup games that we have to make up from rain and What the league has done we were just informed is scheduled all four games for one evening from six to ten
JVL00:28:17One hour games one hour one hour games for one hour games
Mike00:28:20And so the the consent I'm not going because I literally can't play But the consensus is now that we will play the first two games against the Windlass team in the league and then forfeit the next two games against the second-place team in the how about you just settle this all
JVL00:28:40with rock-paper-scissors that's Anyway, all right
Mike00:28:45Are we talking we get yeah, that's good, man
JVL00:28:48That's basically the end of the you guys are you guys are having a rough week? It's been a rough week for the boys
Mike00:28:54All right. All right. Well, so we should move on and talk No JVL said no So let's talk box office thoughts anything happened in the box office this week guys I mean, is it right there were any movies? That did well, uh this week in the middle of the summer. Oh, yeah to Barbie and Oppenheimer 162 million dollars for Barbie 82 million dollars for Oppenheimer both opening There's not been a week like this and who knows how long like two big movies like this that aren't Franchises aren't superheroes have done have opened and opened this well What are our box office thoughts about the Barbie and Heimer weekend?
Sonny00:29:49It's the fourth. It was either the fourth or fifth biggest weekend in box office history. I forget which But like the enormous enormous weekend and an unusual Giant weekend because usually those weekends are driven entirely by one big movie, right? So it's either Star Wars The Force Awakens, you know is one of those weekends or Avengers endgame, you know That was one of those weekends But this is a this is an unusual weekend in that it was two movies driving the the giant box office First time two movies have opened to more than 80 million dollars and indeed It's the first time two movies have opened to more than I think 50 million dollars So like the the the the numbers on the bow So one one sixty two and eighty two, I think was that is that what you just read? Yeah, one sixty two and eighty two and a half. Yeah, so so, you know, they're they're huge huge Enormous numbers. They're much bigger than anybody was tracking or anybody was expecting, you know Warner Brothers put out a nonsense number that was 75 million Everybody thought that was lowballing it that it looked like the movie was gonna make a hundred or a hundred ten Million dollars, but I like I I'll just say I'll just toot my own horn here for a second I went to I went to the draft house on On Thursday night, I needed to kill 30 minutes while my daughter was doing violin practice I went to the I went to the draft house fourth For 30 minutes just sat there drank a beer and as I was as I was sitting there drinking the beer at the bar I saw three different giant groups of like moms and daughters come in in like Barbie gear To take pictures in front of the standees or something and I tweeted you can look it up. I tweeted lol, this movie's gonna make 150 million dollars and It turns out I even lowballed it I mean, I like it it wound up doing even better than that as the the weekend went along which suggests really good word-of-mouth I mean the it got An A from CinemaScore it's it's it's playing really well, but but Oppenheimer also just did huge huge enormous numbers I mean people people were thinking, you know in the 40 million dollar range with Oppenheimer 40 to 50 million dollars, which would have put it a little below Dunkirk But in that same basic realm and instead it did 82 million and that's it that was driven Largely by the premium large format screens, right? So the PLF screens your IMAX is your Dolby's
JVL00:32:15Etc. Where does this rank for our rated openings?
Sonny00:32:19Our rated openings it was just outside of the top 10. I think it was 11 or 12 But it's the second biggest opening for a biopic ever after American Sniper It's third biggest depending on how you want to how you want to count Passion of the Christ passion of the Christ technically did a little better But I don't know if that counts as a biopic as a biopic period I don't know if that I don't know if I don't know if that counts as a biopic but the but most of I mean most of the big R-rated openings are like the Deadpool movies Or it's it's in its sequels a couple couple of cut one of the hangovers. This is original, right? This is this is an original right? This is like an original non IP sort of thing again I I think the only real comparison point is American Sniper. It's just passion of the Christ count its original non IP Another great question. Well, I mean like I I feel like if I feel like it's based on a book if American is a very famous book if American Sniper counts, which was also based on a very successful and popular book - and Oppenheimer, which was based on you know Anyway, I think I think this counts as non IP It's it's it's an it's an enormous achievement. I mean like I'll put it this way I'll put it I'll put it this way so year-to-date the box office was running about 10% ahead of where it was last year After this weekend It's now running 15% ahead of where it was last year and that number is gonna get bigger because last year's stretch between August and October November or so was just dire there was nothing in theaters like all the way through late through past Labor Day There was there were zero movies that opened to more than a hundred million dollars like the Labor Day weekend The number one movie in the country was a Top Gun Maverick that got re-released into theaters
Mike00:34:01What what are our theories about? What turned it around? for Barbie And we talked a little bit about this, but like yeah, so it was months ago We thought this thing was gonna be a bomb. Well, so just us
Sonny00:34:14So two so two months ago, it was interesting. I talked to David Heron of the quorum at the Bulwark goes to Hollywood about About the tracking on Barbie and he was like, you know, it's really interesting The awareness on this movie is very high and the interest is very low, which is not great because like it's easy to create awareness It's harder to create interest So if you have a situation where awareness is high and interest is low You're you're looking at bad times and I I don't know exactly how they turned it around, but I think it's it's a combination of they found they found the audience that they really needed to find which was essentially 20 to 50 year old kind of irony soaked millennial Gen X women To show up for this and they they they turn that audience out. It helped that the reviews were very good, right? The review that's 90% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes So this is this is one of those rare movies that I think was a little more review dependent than than some others But then it just got it got really Good word about again it like ticked up all weekend It was that first wave of women showed up and then the rest of them they got everybody else to come. It was a
JVL00:35:26The Atmosphere at my multiplex was like a hundred different bachelorette parties were going on we're just groups of I want to say girls groups of young women in the 20 to 35 demo like big groups of them Slutting it up wearing lots of pink and I just thought man you could do you could shoot the wedding crashers about going to
Sonny00:35:54A Barbie movie, right? But I don't think I don't think you could though is the thing
JVL00:35:58I think it's like a girl power show up to a Barbie movie and there's gonna be someone there who's willing to go home with
Sonny00:36:03You I don't know maybe at a draft house. Yeah The draft house you get a bottle of wine into him get a few of those those spritzers that they were selling at the white
Mike00:36:11law and some white so was into them so but but This this does sort of I mean, I Guess it's maybe this will be studied. I don't know in marketing classes, but the way in which It transformed and I felt like I was watching it in real time it transformed the movie into an into an event and into the sort of sense that like That that yeah You wanted to go it was like a party that you really wanted to go to for those Irony, so 20 to 50 year old women like that is I I don't know how you do that But it was I think such an achievement
JVL00:36:44Of the Warner Brothers marketing that the trailers and the ads never looked good to me No, like I know, you know, babe, the excitement seems to be organic Not movie not for us. No, that's fair enough. I've been told it's very good and it is it wasn't all quadrant hit, right? It's uh, I did John Podhoretz says it's really good. I can't wait to see it. I'm excited and eager to see it Probably to take my mother-in-law with me You know, I'm I'm super into it You know, I feel like we've finally solved the theatrical release problem though for Hollywood Sonny
Sonny00:37:24What's that? How?
JVL00:37:26All you have to do is Just make 40 high-quality original movies a year. You just make good movies You just make it just make the hits which is what Netflix did to turn everything around You just make you remember they were just gonna start pressing the hit they had the button from For hit and they just hadn't been pressing it Yeah So now Hollywood will just press that button and make 40 high-quality movies a year Then everything's gonna be fine. Yeah, I mean you just make good original movies and the audiences will come back to the theaters
Sonny00:38:00I mean I for all the talk about Barbie's success and it's huge and enormous and this movie will I think it will probably end up beating Super Mario Brothers at the box office I think it's gonna end up being the biggest movie of the year domestically at least I I mean I could see this movie doing anywhere between 600 and 700 million dollars I like I think it's gonna I I I will I don't I don't want to like say this will definitely happen But I could see this movie happening having a hundred million dollar second weekend, which almost never happens. We'll see the The but the the success of Oppenheimer, which we'll talk about we'll review here in a second. I swear people Is is is even more impressive really? I mean I again you have you Have a you have a three-hour most sunny thing ever
JVL00:38:47It's a three-hour girl movie written and directed by the girls about the interior lives of women is fine But this Christopher Nolan movie is more impressive in its performance. It's actually I mean, it's not it, but it's also not a very good movie
Sonny00:39:01I mean it whatever the but the Oppenheimer is Oppenheimer is a very good movie, and it's it's a three-hour Historical epic rated are half in black and white with no real star in the lead really Cillian Murphy is is a known quantity, but not exactly a movie star and that movie opened up to 80 million dollars on Essentially the strength of Christopher Nolan being like you got to see this movie, and I'm you got to see this movie that takes entirely place in laboratory rooms and Senate hearing rooms and Offices you got to see this in IMAX. You don't see it in IMAX. You didn't even see it Yeah, and any it worked people showed up people were excited so well Good job, Christopher. We're all proud of you
Mike00:39:47Not a floppenheimer, but a boppenheimer. Let's talk about Talk about should I stop in Imer? Let's talk about Oppenheimer which is pronounced Oppenheimer not open Imer as I've heard some people refer to it as Which is really annoying?
Sonny00:40:09Who is saying that?
Mike00:40:11Just some some people on YouTube the The movie that we're talking about this week Oppenheimer Sonny. Let's get that big boy review of this three-hour historical biopic epic that surprised everybody at the box office
Sonny00:40:27Oppenheimer ah I've never heard that Oppenheimer is again as I said, it's three-hour Historical epic rated are With party black and white got some nudity in it and it's Takes place over basically three intersecting timelines. Technically, it's only two it's not it's not quite like Dunkirk But like one of the timelines is essentially told entirely in flashback Which is is enough for me to say suggest this is basically taking place in three timelines about the creation of the atomic bomb and what that did to both its creator and and our society writ large is Great, it's a it's this is a great movie It's it's almost hard for me to quantify exactly why it works And there's no reason this movie should work. This is a movie that has no business working on any level It's literally just three hours of guys talking about physics stuff and guys talking about commie stuff and guys talking about Political stuff and it works it works because Christopher Nolan has managed to layer the screenplay and the Editing in such a way that everything is propulsive everything goes you go from one moment to the next You you have the score kind of driving you propelling you through it. You are he's he builds to the logical He builds to the kind of the logical culmination conclusion of the movie which is the Trinity test the test of the the first atomic bomb in the deserts of New Mexico and We have an hour more after that where it's just about the the aftermath of that and How he responded to it? internally and how his his His enemies tried to destroy him by suggesting he was a communist it's it's it's a I I cannot I have a very hard time vocalizing exactly Why this movie works again because I don't think it should I don't think it should work There's nothing about it that says like this is a thing. This is a movie that people will show up for and Love but they they have and part of it is because all the performances are amazing I mean like you just run through the cast of this movie Killian Murphy who's great like I love them in Peaky Blinders and you know the Batman movies and everything else he's been in special shout out here to Sunshine which is a underrated Danny Boyle picture But uh, you know on top of that Matt Damon Robert Downey jr. Gary Oldman Rami Malek Casey Affleck those three show up for one scene each essentially one scene each Rami Malek's actually in two or three scenes, but he only speaks in one scene and Those guys have all won Best Actor. They all show up for one scene in this movie and just do their work And then they're out, you know Macon Blair who plays the lawyer in the the hearings is wonderful. I've loved him ever since Blue Ruin He's really great kind of character actor, but can still carry his own film. David Krumholtz shows up. He does amazing work as Isaac Robbie, I mean again, I could just I could almost run down the entire cast I mentioned Emily Blunt Emily Blunt Florence Pugh doing doing Kind of thankless work as the the women in Oppenheimer's life, but doing a very good job with it. I It's it's it's it's a staggering Dean it's it Matthew Modine. It's a staggering piece of work, I mean, it's just it is just kind of overwhelming and and and all inspiring and it's and it manages to do all of this without ever being didactic or Or you know dull or you know trying to It doesn't it doesn't force its points in ways that Some other filmmakers would be tempted to force their points here is I guess how I'll put that I just I I am going to see it again on Friday. I can't wait. I'm very excited. I I I hope you guys liked it as much as I did I have a hard time believing anything else will top my best of list For the year, but it is it is just an amazing piece of filmmaking
Mike00:44:57All right JVL your thoughts I Mean it's it's fine
JVL00:45:05It's a It's an okay movie. It's not terrible
Mike00:45:11Not enough booms for you I mean, it's uh, it's
JVL00:45:17so long And it tries to trick you with the score into thinking that things are happening, but they're not Maybe the weirdness of having swelling propulsive Music like you're in a John wick fight scene over Like, you know 50 year old white guys in a 100 year old flashback of a clearance Meeting in a closet to convince you that something exciting is happening here when it's not the destruction having the trinity test be the You know when trinity happened, I thought oh finally I could finally go home
Mike00:46:05I was at my watch. I thought oh my god, we got another hour of this fucking thing
JVL00:46:09um I mean And that's that is to be totally ideologically neutral And to not call into question any of the movies Sanitizations of Of the actual story of the the commie infiltration of this stuff And oppenheimer's sympathies and I I agree sunny that they don't like really They aren't as heavy-handed as as they might have been but they also are like too light on Oppenheimer and like I'm sorry like this stuff was important and I had a long talk with the I did a short talk with our buddy Eric Edelman who knows a lot about this stuff I was written a couple scholarly papers on it and It is wildly more complicated than the movie portrays and you know the villain Borden who is played by who? We first notice David S. Malkin. Yeah, who's great always and everywhere Like you know he's played as this like weird creep creep was not Not at all and am like, you know, like he had he had valid grudges against Oppenheimer and Was himself an accomplished guy lawyer, I don't know I I just I found myself rooting for Strauss the the purported villain against Oppenheimer throughout much of the movie
Sonny00:47:50JBL you and you ended up cheering for the villain. Yeah, I was like, oh look what?
JVL00:47:56Terrible person who treats everybody he comes across in life terribly gets upset when people decide to fuck him in the end when they have The chance film at 11 good. They should have fucked him Oppenheimer is a dick. I don't know man, like I just I Don't know Like it's fine. It's not a bad movie. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you it's bad but Yeah, I can't I can't imagine sitting through that thing twice interesting interesting
Mike00:48:28so I Feel that while I am kind of spiritually with Sonny on this I At least understand where you're coming from JBL. I I Could not stop thinking about this movie Afterward and kind of turning it over in my head and try and try me. What about it?
JVL00:48:53It's stuck that way for you because I was the opposite I kept trying to make myself think about it and I was like, there's just nothing here
Mike00:49:00So what was it really stuck on you and got it so on to you? So I will I will admit that perhaps I Perhaps I am not as sophisticated a movie viewer as as you are and Say that So stipulating that I thought the movie was much more ambiguous about Oppenheimer than Than what you described. I think Nolan is certainly much more ambiguous about Oppenheimer than the source materials, which is pretty much like a Lefty you know apologia for
JVL00:49:40Heimer and for and all that so
Mike00:49:43I was struck by how The ending of the film and the sort of downfall of straws in the In the hearing and he doesn't win how it felt it did not feel like a victory For anybody it was not it did not feel it was not presented at least in my viewing of it as a victory it was it Was dealt with in the same complicated way that I thought everything surrounding J. Robert Oppenheimer was which is it's it's complex. He's He's decrying You know the proliferation of a tool that he was not only crucial to its development, but he was He was a champion for I mean, I feel like a lesser filmmaker would have Would have done that scene after Trinity where he's in the room and he's sort of shouting He's sort of like saying like oh if we I wish we had been able to do this before the before the Nazis were you know surrendered you know, but at least we got we got the the Japanese whatever and people were screaming and cheering at him and We're supposed I guess the the text of it is like oh he's conflicted. He's saying the these things but inside he feels Like he's unleashed a monster, but I guess I didn't interpret it that way I thought I thought we were what we were hearing the text of what we were hearing from him was In some ways true like he actually did he loved the power. He loved being the popular guy there and his his sort of conflict was He didn't quite like that. He felt that way but that he did feel that so I don't know I just I took it. I took it to be more of a a character study of what happens when somebody who's very intelligent and very confident in their intelligence Let's that get out of control and Doesn't quite know how to deal with the consequences of their own actions and their own Their own mistakes and it almost took me out of the historical element and it felt in many ways very personal and psychological and I Don't know. I I couldn't stop thinking about about that about the struggle. What did you guys make of the portrayal of Truman?
JVL00:52:27because the the one person in it that I think the movie has no sympathy for is is Truman and Truman is portrayed as Something about both an idiot and a simp and also Sort of like a monster Yeah, a monster. Did you did you guys have any thoughts on that or no? Well, I mean, I I I do think it's an interesting
Sonny00:52:52It's an interesting moment in the movie because it it's kind of after that that it shifts to more of the political Backroom drama and it's kind of at that point that Oppenheimer Kind of understands that he has to use his fame in a way to get what he wants Yes, and he understands like he has to play the role The political game yeah differently and I think that that that that performance I agree is is kind of jarring at least compared to everybody else in the in the movie It's a little more SNL II but I do think I also think it serves an actual dramatic thematic purpose Which is to signify the shift from great science to politics Science is rational and maybe terrifying and politics is showbiz and and different and I think that's it's It's an interesting way to think about it. I mean I The I I I think I think the both the movie and frankly the book are very unfair to Truman In that he is he is portrayed as essentially a yokel, you know Yeah, I mean he's portrayed as uncaring and you know It doesn't neither of these neither of these really grapple with you know, what he what he grappled with and and I think the the part of part of Truman's frustration Which I think is true is his argument is you didn't drop the bombs. I dropped the bombs I'm the one that has to deal with this with the blood on my hands, you know Which I think again, I think he was more conflicted about than this movie gives gives it was it was a bit of a book
Mike00:54:30Give them credit for it was a bit of a smack. You can act like a man. What's the matter with you? you know sort of moment where Where he he sort of was like stop like wallowing in your in your angst and and you know, like, you know, this is I don't know like it was a little monstrous, but I was also seem to be like from Oppenheimer's perspective You know where we saw, you know, he's he almost seemed cartoonish By the end of it Truman did. I don't know. I view that as sort of an Oppenheimer's point of view But I don't know maybe I'm giving this movie too much credit JV. I just I I was so engrossed in the In the psychology. Yes
Sonny00:55:13Yes, the movie is the movie is absolutely hypnotic. It's so perfect. It's not the same
JVL00:55:19I would not say something. I was saying I'm kidding. I don't mean it that I don't I'm not serious about that. I have a question though, but I mean The the message of this movie Feels like a very 1980s message. Yes. Yes Hey this and the answer is actually we have figured out the manager Of the nuclear age, right? We kind of we have why no basically figured it out and the whole world didn't blow up and
Mike00:55:52Well teller wins Teller wins because right the world that what teller ends up doing right in the 1980s is he? Goes to Reagan and it's like hey this whole SDI thing You know like like that's like he was he was a force behind that and like his yeah
Sonny00:56:09Well, so this is this is this is why this is one reason Why the movie is so interesting to me is because it is not explicitly anti-nuke right and this is the end This is this is what Oppenheimer's this is what Oppenheimer's whole thing is Oppenheimer himself argued for the development and deployment of tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield like he he wanted us to develop smaller Battlefield munitions that were nuclear power that could blow up like tank divisions and stuff right he was not anti-nuke He was anti h-bomb. He did not think that the development of the h-bomb was a good or moral thing because These are only weapons of terror they only make sense Teller on the other hand who's played by Benny Safdie in this movie is is Essentially the real-life dr. Strangelove He is like the the guy who argued against the h-bomb gap and didn't didn't want us to fall behind He was the force. He's the father of the the h-bomb basically And his argument which his and straws is argument is career is has so far been proven to be Correct. Yes, right, which is that mutually assured destruction has essentially ended great power warfare Which has saved innumerable lives Yes Just it like in millions upon millions of lives not just on the battlefield when you when you are when you are living in a world In which the ability to wipe out a city with the touch of a button exists You don't have wars between the two powers that can do that or the three powers that can do that or the ten powers that? can do that it has a like we we we are living in very much in Tellers world and we are living because of teller because it's in a very real way right because because well yeah Not specifically deterrence though right mutually assured destruction. Yeah, but this is like again like so he's you know
JVL00:57:56Oppenheimer was wrong about that the movie sort of I
Sonny00:57:59Know but again, but see but here's here's the whole point of the movie the whole point of the whole point of the movie though Is he has like the? Nolan does very interesting thing in this movie in which he shows he shows At certain points Oppenheimer seeing the world kind of living and destroyed at the same time right though There's this whole thing about him seeing the world in quantum terms he sees you know the the probabilities and the variabilities and all that and the the The the that closing shot of the fire you know engulfing the earth which again I agree JBL feels like a very 19 this is the sort of thing that you would get out of the movie you would you Would end a movie like this in 1980 is is It's it's understandable that he would see the world that way because he sees The probabilities and the possibilities and if there's even the tiniest chance of it of you know destroying the world you you don't You don't develop that thing and you don't take that chance You know I we haven't destroyed the world yet that doesn't mean it couldn't happen It's still very much possibility. It's unlikely. It's unlikely real hero
Mike00:59:11Sonny well can I can I say
Sonny00:59:12Can I say something about straw straws is certainly the I think you could certainly make the case that straws and teller are the real Hero of reality yes, and I think I think I think straws has actually played very sympathetically in this movie by Robert Downey jr.. I think he's played at like a real person yes
Mike00:59:28Can I can I say that that I think Robert Downey jr.. This is his best performance. I've seen I Can't I'm trying to think back to a better before like I loved
Sonny00:59:40Since Tropic Thunder no his Sherlock Holmes
Mike00:59:42It's so good, but but this yes, I mean it's great. He's this was great. He I think he almost steals the movie because because of It's something about the the it being in black and white when we see most of the time when we see him and and also Just the it was I just thought it was a terrific performance. Can I say a performance? I did not Particularly care for and this might get me in the podcast cancelled Did not think Florence Pugh rose to the occasion I'm sorry No, I she pointed to the occasion she I don't I don't think Like I'm trying to think how to put this in words But she did not She did not seem like 1930s communist to me
JVL01:00:37Like she seemed like a 1930s communist. Yeah, she did she honey Trap who is there just like, you know, you can okay have any which way with me But I'm gonna keep getting getting getting so I can get your secrets and pass them. I guess so
Mike01:00:51I I thought I thought she was a little she's a little she felt a little too modern for me. Is this my like? Well, they were very modern women
Sonny01:00:59Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. Well, I one thing that's one thing that's very amusing about the book if if people read it is that it is very much a it's a it's a history of mid-century American written by very liberal progressive Right very, you know leftists and but honest ones in a certain sense and what I mean is they have to acknowledge They have to acknowledge that essentially all of these organizations were you know backed by the Communist Party and like yeah A lot of them were you know headed by the Communist Party and like Jean Tatlock for instance She killed herself and her father went to her apartment and burned all of her papers But you know, that was just you know, probably personal stuff not related to anything
JVL01:01:39But you know the comp the the whole McCarthy
Sonny01:01:42Ism totally overblown there was no there was no reason to worry about the communist infiltration and like two things to be true At the same time McCarthy could have been a jackass and an idiot and overreached on a whole bunch of stuff Yeah, but also that the commies were everywhere. They were they were actually everywhere
Mike01:01:57So I went and saw this movie with my wife and it was the first time she'd been in a movie theater in like five years Five or six years or maybe even longer. She does not like going to the theaters anyway, but we enjoyed it We had a great time like just going out and watching a movie like inch and We're both Nolan heads too. So she was like totally into it but she said She was she was very interested because she's a scientist herself and so she was interested in the kind of the even though she's a biologist not a physicist like there was a there was she was interested in that aspect of it and she told me she was kind of shocked at how how communist it all was back then like like like she's like they were all comics and and I think I you know, it's like the kind of thing where like because of my background I've like read about all this stuff and you know but I think it was a real shock to her that like there was no sort of hedging on and that I was like, no, no, they were they were all commies and I was like, yeah and like They're like the whole thing with the Chevalier incident like Like that was that was how that happened and that was happening all the time
Sonny01:03:06Yeah, all different areas of government and it's it's it's very interesting to me that I think the most the most the most Empathetic portrayal and the most the character who comes across actually is like the best and most decent and most honorable is Groves is Matt Damon's character. Yes, because he does he does two things. He does two things in the movie that are important Yeah in and this again this happened in real life in the in the hearings where Oppenheimer security clearance is getting is gonna be revoked spoiler the He says He reveals unbeknownst to Oppenheimer that he had Pash Colonel Pash who was played by Casey Affleck as like the most terrifying man in the universe He had Pash reassigned to Copenhagen to like kidnap scientists or like I think I think His actual assignment was to figure out if he could assassinate Heisenberg. That was like his his his job. I'm amazing And he did this unbeknownst to Oppenheimer who was who Pash won essentially tortured to get information out of And then the second thing he says in this hearing in the same hearing is that he would not have approved Oppenheimer's security clearance if If the rules that you know, they were talking about then had been in place at the time He couldn't because Oppenheimer was compromised. He was he was compromised through and through as I mean like, you know again, we can do we can talk about the overreach of the Red scare and all that But the the what it comes down to at the end of the day was that there was a massive communist name for it infiltration There was communist infiltration at Los Alamos as a result of that There's a very decent chance that this is how the the the Soviets got
JVL01:04:58You know started on the hydrogen bomb and a five-year home start because of that. So so like I like again, it's you know
Sonny01:05:06This is this is our this is the reactionary part of us kind of coming out and being like no you can't whitewash all
Mike01:05:12This away, but here's the thing. I don't think and again, maybe I'm unsophisticated on this, but I don't think the movie I don't think the film Sort of whitewashes over that maybe maybe at the surface level
Sonny01:05:24I don't think it does either but well, I mean, I it doesn't it doesn't do what we wanted to do, which is to say Communists top to bottom you get rid of them. But like at the same time that that is also, you know
Mike01:05:35I mean, I think it's fairly fair job leave out hanging like all the moments that Oppenheimer lies and like they like Oppenheimer does not come across as a good guy in this movie and He's he's not he's not a villain in the movie, but he's he comes across as the complicated compromised kind of you know dickhead that he was and and Yes, I agree Groves comes across he was he was terrific and I thought Matt Damon, you know a Terrific a performance. I mean like he captured that that that feeling of like that generation of of military man and sort of like You know who appreciated these scientists, but also like had a foot in a completely different world
Sonny01:06:24But I love that but also also just explains very clearly and perfunctorily. We are going to develop We're we are going to drop two of these bombs one to let them know we have it and the second to let them know That we are going to keep doing it Yes, and that is not that is not played as a villainous moment. It's just played as a straight-ahead like this is this is what? We're doing this is strategy
JVL01:06:44To two things which are not included in the movie, which probably shouldn't be just sort of qua Storytelling but but which interest me and the first is like the roots of all the communism and what people who have not Who have not? Done a whole lot of reading on this is the roots of communism or World War one The shock of the Great War which you have to understand Oppenheimer is formed by we don't see any of it But like, you know right before Oppenheimer shows up in in Great Britain Like this is he has just lived through World War one and the shock of World War one was so trans one of my pet theories Everything in our world is traced can be traced back to World War one Like it is everybody just focuses on WWE - but that's not the the real thing is World War one that made everybody made the entire world go crazy because the we can't ever do this again and This is why people fell in love both with fascism and communism Because they thought well this thing that we just tried didn't work and we can't ever do a war like that again So we'll try anything and that's where the romantic communism stuff led to and that's what you had You know in America packing up and going to Spain to volunteer to fight in a fucking civil war in Spain purely because they were on either the you know the fascist side or the commie side because they thought that that one of these two things Would be the solution to not have to do World War one again. Yeah Second thing is Heisenberg. So there's that scene where they jubilantly talked about how look at this Heisenberg made a wrong turn and One of the theories about this is that Heisenberg did that intentionally That Heisenberg took the job that he took under Hitler because he felt like he had no choice but that he slow walked it and he felt like he couldn't sabotage it but at the that there was A theoretical level at which he could direct it into a blind alley and nobody would be able to call it sabotage because nobody else Knew enough. He was the only guy left with enough working knowledge of theoretical physics to be able to Anyway, and I again this doesn't belong in the movie probably But the kind of thing that I wish people thought about a little bit more
Sonny01:09:04He's in the movie for like 30 seconds, too But it's again, it's just like another really nice little performance by Matthias Schweighofer who is JVL you will remember from army of the dead. He's the safecracker. Ah, yes
Mike01:09:16I sort of like by the way, we haven't even mentioned Kenneth Branagh as Niels Bohr Kenneth Branagh
JVL01:09:23And who's so the guy from Dark Knight Rises who plays Einstein? What's his name?
Mike01:09:28Andy Ferguson Andy Ferguson. Yeah, man. He's wonderful Wonderful wonderful. Oh, he's great I really I really liked by the way the the returning to that scene as a sort of recurring I Don't know you could call it a motif or just like a recurring element I just I loved how it it it all kind of boiled down to
JVL01:09:53What he said to him. It's like inception. They keep coming back to the hotel, right? And if that The hotel means different things depending on where you are in the story and how much Nolan shows you that's it's the exact same trick he's pulling with Oppenheimer and an Einstein I think it works works very nicely
Sonny01:10:13Like I said, it's fine and it gets it gets to the it gets to the again the thematic core of the film Which is like scientists are worried about these big high-level Survival of humanity things whereas straws is like this guy was fucking mean to me right once. Yeah. Yeah
Mike01:10:28any other thoughts on Oppenheimer Before we before we go I bet Barbie is better
JVL01:10:37And we'll have to find that out only
Mike01:10:39Sonny any any final thoughts?
Sonny01:10:41No
Mike01:10:43Okay. Well, I I guess that's all the time. We're gonna give to this episode. Remember sub beacon Dot-com you can join us there. Listen when we have bonus episodes. You can listen to those exclusively at sub beacon calm Thanks for listening So I Did say that this was My wife's first time at the movie theater. I move and we went to the Alamo and It was lovely. It was great. Yeah, the place was packed. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it was just it was a Friday night granted
JVL01:11:23But like yeah, it was your old album actually JBL Potomac, but no one down in Woodbridge. Yeah
Mike01:11:30And I it was we both had this conversation when we had this conversation with each other We're just like, you know, it's fleeting and and it won't be like this forever, but it was Just so great to have like it felt like a good movie weekend Yeah, it was like everybody's out here at the movies. Everybody's enjoying this. Isn't this wonderful? It is wonderful
JVL01:11:50This is why we need theatrical. Totally right? It's the energy of the place. Yes. It's wonderful. Oh, yeah Man, these shows are getting long. I have something good for outtakes, but the show's too long So I'll just have to save it for for next time save it for next week. Yeah, that's right. I'm sure it's like
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