#194. 'Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny'
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Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny limped to a $60 million opening against a reported $200-350 million budget, and all three hosts pan it, if for different reasons: Sonny doesn't hate it — he still finds Harrison Ford charming and Phoebe Waller-Bridge winning — but calls the Archimedes-invents-time-travel McGuffin "the dumbest shit I've ever seen," complains that every chase sequence looks like fake green-screen garbage next to the practical stunts of Raiders, and says the two-and-a-half-hour runtime is a slog of static shot/reverse-shot dialogue scenes; JVL hates it more viscerally, on thematic grounds, raging that the film turns Indy into "Willy Loman with a bullwhip," a sad-sack loser nobody remembers, which he takes as a kind of character assassination of a beloved pulp hero; Mike was merely bored, though he singles out the pointless CIA-agent character who gets shot and forgotten, praises Antonio Banderas's fun cameo (both hosts agree he's the one actor who looks like he's enjoying himself), and closes on a fondness for the "Magical Mystery Tour" needle-drop. The conversation widens into Lucasfilm's broader malaise — Kathleen Kennedy's track record, the quietly-deleted Willow series, and whether Disney's IP investment can ever pay off — and ends with Mike's fresh rewatch of Raiders prompting a shared lament (especially from Sonny) that Mangold's competent direction can't match Spielberg's constantly moving camera, tying it to a broader JVL theory about CGI-driven "density" flattening modern blockbusters since the Lucas prequels. The opening banter runs long: JVL rhapsodizes about his new suburban-Jersey community pool, especially a grandmotherly woman built like "the Ultimate Warrior," plus its rock wall and gaga ball pit; Sonny proudly recounts swapping his own propane tank for the first time and rants at length about his kids' cursed, un-untanglable Slinkies; and Mike recaps a softball game that nearly turned into a brawl after the other team kept smashing balls up the middle at his imposing pitcher, prompting a group debate (with a detour into the 2004 Jason Varitek–Alex Rodriguez fight) over whether it was intentional.
From the show notes
Give 'em hell, Indiana Jones!
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00Give 'em hell, Indiana Cougs! Few times in my life I've seen things. I've been tortured with voodoo. I've been shot nine times. Including once by your father.
JVL00:00:16Sorry!
Guest00:00:20But I've been looking for this... all my life.
Mike00:00:30Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast. I am your co-host Mike Warren and with me as always are my two co-hosts who are in it for fortune and glory. Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. We're going to be talking. A little bit later in the show about Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny, but first head over to Sub-Beacon.com to become a patron of the podcast. You can become a part of the community comment. Listen, of course, as soon as the show is out when we do bonus episodes, you can hear those bonus episodes. If you are a patron at Sub-Beacon.com, we'll get into the movie of the week. But first, let's hear how our weeks. I've been going JBL. What's going on, man?
JVL00:01:34I have become a community pool guy. Explain this is we we have talked many times on this show, probably before your time, Michael, about how much I hate the pool. Oh, yeah. Oh, I hate the pool so much, but up here in Nueva Jersey, we have joined a pool that I love. It is. It's like a pool from Stranger Things. It's like, it's like a.
Sonny00:02:00Private. It's not like it's not.
JVL00:02:02No, this is a community pool. There's a public community pool. You pay for a membership and you get to go and and it's it is everything about it is from 1985. I love it. Yeah, it's great, but I saw something there. That has haunted me. And I need to share it now with you and the people. So I am at the pool and I am splashing around with G money. And striding into the pool is a woman. And this woman. Is I, you know, you're never supposed to speculate about a woman's age, but I'm going to call her 65. But she's probably closer to 70 than to 60. She's getting Social Security is your point. This woman is absolutely getting Social Security. Okay, and I'm telling that if you told me she was 70, I'd say, yeah, okay. That's a little few years older than I expect. It but I wouldn't be surprised. And she had the body of the Ultimate Warrior. And I don't mean the body of the Ultimate Warrior circa like 2005 before he died. I mean the Ultimate Warrior who defeated Hulk Hulk Hogan for the World Wrestling Championship belt. She she had these massive biceps with with veins sticking out all over them her stomach. Her abdomen not only like an eight-pack, but the sort of the eight-pack that like bows out because there's so much abdominal muscle everywhere. There's muscle on top of muscle muscle on top of and she could I'm telling you she couldn't even like, you know, the joke about the the bodybuilders who can't quite get their their hand by your arms down to their sides, right? Her lats are so big that she couldn't drop them down. So she wasn't like six foot tall or something. She was still. A normal woman-sized height. You know, like five five or something maybe but with the body of the ultimate Warrior and a grandmother and I'm looking at her and I can't I can't stop thinking. How much money in steroids go into making that happen? Because that is a who is the guy who went to jail for giving Barry Bonds all the all the roids. Remember the cream and the clear and it's like a Greek name got Dr. Gevnan Ian or something like that. So some doctor up here in North Jersey has been given this woman horse story. Everything, whatever, whatever. I don't know if you guys remember this Vince McMahon briefly ran his own bodybuilding. Yes League. Yes that he thought was going to become like another World Wrestling Federation. He thought that what people really liked about wrestling. Was watching gigantic muscle freaks.
Sonny00:05:02And so by standing up a bodybuilding League that that would be come the end of the like you didn't have both both Avis and her wasn't that wasn't that where Lex Luger got his start wasn't Lex Luger originally in like the world bodybuilding Association wouldn't surprise me.
JVL00:05:17Yeah, but here of course here of course was the Vince McMahon hook right? There was already a gigantic bodybuilding Federation that Vince had long sponsored and like, you know, is one of the backers of. But the. Problem with that place was that they every once in a while tested guys for roids and their official policy roids were bad. And the whole idea for Vince McMahon's bodybuilding Federation was like everybody gets roids.
Sonny00:05:44We're never going to test anyone.
JVL00:05:46We're not only we're never going to test. We're going to tell all the guys to go on the juice so that whenever you come out, everybody should be bionic, right? Like every bit the old idea. How big can they get? How big can they get? Anyway, this woman looked like one of them, but at a woman scale was she and it was crap and again a grandmother question question. Yeah, was she swimming laps? No, she was standing in the like three foot section of the pool chit-chatting with other grandmother types who look normal size appropriate normal size people age appropriate, right? Like being the what what you expect of grandparents to look like and they were sitting around just. Chatting with their buddy, the ultimate warrior.
Mike00:06:35I've never seen anything like it. And yet this is a moment in your life where you are more pro community pool than ever before.
Sonny00:06:43So this is not dissuaded you or you out of out of going to sway to me.
JVL00:06:47Maybe it's what attracted me. Maybe the panoply of the human experience that's going on at our community pool and yet the pool is so enormous that you never actually have to get too close. Close to any person you don't you certainly don't have to talk to people. Although I did have a child jump on my back today. What and yell got your dad not and then when I turned around and he looked up at me at my face was very confused because you're not my dad.
Sonny00:07:19It's always that's always a very fun moment when either your child you you see your child go up to another adult and like expectantly be like, hey dad, you're like not. You messed up kid or you have it happen to you and you're, you know, it's some some little kids like, oh, this is my dad.
JVL00:07:36Nope, not it did make me feel good because in many times I find myself thinking all these little children look exactly the same. How am I supposed to pick mine out of it? It's nice to know that sometimes they look at the adults and we all look the same to them.
Mike00:07:48Yeah, yeah, we're just we're just a pair of legs.
JVL00:07:51Anyway, I that's it. I wanted to share with you the swimming. She Hulk and I can't wait to see her again. If I see. Her again, I'm going to figure out some way to snap a picture.
Sonny00:08:02Don't don't is that creepy? No, cuz she'll is that wrong your ass?
JVL00:08:05Yeah, yeah, you don't want to. Could I ask for a picture with her? Well, you could get asked for something if I'd be like, hey, listen, I gotta say grandmama. You look amazing. And can I get a selfie with you?
Mike00:08:16You were gonna see you were great on American. Gladiators.
JVL00:08:18Just as I love doing. She Hulk.
Mike00:08:22So so JVL does your does your pool have like give us a lay of the of the land here. Does it have a diving board? Diving board.
JVL00:08:31Okay, a couple of slides into it. A rock wall, a rock wall. I had never seen one of these before an aqua rock wall where the it comes out. I'm pointed towards the camera here. It comes out at an angle over the water. And so the kids like clamber up and then drop off into the water. I've never heard of this.
Sonny00:08:54Like a what? So I'm sorry to describe to people you're talking about like a 45 degree in. Cline over the water.
JVL00:09:02Yeah, it's kind of like a 20 degree incline and over and over. Yeah, but but with like a rock wall, imagine a rock wall going straight up out of the side of the pool. And then you tilt it 20 degrees into the pool so that this way, if the children slip and fall, they don't down the rocks and then hit the side of the pool. They still doesn't feel safe at all. That it seems very safe. Okay, we got a tetherball court. We have a gaga ball pit. What gaga? What is gaga? What is gaga ball? Gaga ball is the sport of North Jersey Elementary schools. I could not describe the I could not possibly describe the rules for you. But it is a pit that is like a 20 sided. What would you call a 20 sided thing? Oh, when I first saw this in my kids school, I thought it was just a weird rad trad Catholic turns out. It is everywhere. You're talking about.
Sonny00:10:00You're talking about like, it's like, oh, basically like a circle, more or less like a circle. That's just like they're just just like in the middle of the with dodgeball.
JVL00:10:13But you're not you're not throwing it. You're you're like hitting the ball with your hand. There are all sorts of complicated rules about where it would hit to make somebody out or if they catch it or if you hit it and it then goes out of the our parish school has one of these. It is gaga. Anyway, Mike, the pool has a gaga ball pit. They do on the swim breaks for adult swim. When the time for the adult and you're like, oh, I gotta like manage my children for 15 minutes. They have bingo. The kids can like get put their towels down in the nice grassy meadow under a tree under the oak tree and do bingo. There's a snack stand, a snack stand with everything. But this is he is rap salads, right?
Mike00:10:54This yeah, this is just sounds like what a community pool. I mean, it sounds like I am. I have never a higher level of community, but just sunny.
JVL00:11:02Let me ask you this, but it's not fancy, not fancy in the least.
Mike00:11:05When you when you lived in Virginia, Sonny, did you have a community or neighborhood pool?
Sonny00:11:11Well, we occasionally went to the one that was in God. I forget exactly where it was like Alexandria someplace.
Mike00:11:25But when you grew up, but when you grew up in Virginia, why grew up in Stafford?
Sonny00:11:29Which is a little further south. So Stafford is so where I grew up in Stafford County. I lived in a little subdivision called the Quiet Harbor and the harbor had like a pool. There was like a pool, but that's like an HOA pool. But yeah, it was like an HOA.
JVL00:11:42I've always had HOA pools and I hated them. Oh, really? Why? This is great. Again, like cramped and people dropping their kids.
Mike00:11:52Just that's not that's not my experience. Yeah, but my question, my question is because JVL mentioned Adult Swim. There is no Adult Swim in Virginia.
JVL00:12:03Are you in our community pool?
Mike00:12:05But they can't call it Adult Swim. Apparently, though, apparently this is like this. I don't quite understand it, but there's this whole thing where you cannot discriminate. The age of who can be at the pool right in Virginia.
JVL00:12:20You can only do that by race.
Sonny00:12:22No, not anymore.
JVL00:12:25No, Virginia. You can always say all of the African-American. Children have to get out of that. That's fine.
Mike00:12:31And that is not true.
JVL00:12:32That is Mr. Jefferson's Virginia. That's totes cool. All right. Well, you know what? Maybe we should just move on from the pool. Great. How are you boys? How are you and I'm going to get a picture.
Mike00:12:42We need a picture of what is good sunny.
Sonny00:12:46What is going on with you? Big news big news on my end. So I I have owned a propane grill since I since we bought a house in Virginia, right?
JVL00:13:01So that's where you're going with this. When you said big news. I thought you were going to say there is another no God.
Sonny00:13:06No, never again. Okay, big news.
JVL00:13:09No, I meant of the lizard.
Sonny00:13:11No, no, no.
JVL00:13:12Well, there's there's so that trash can lizard was our best home trash can.
Sonny00:13:17There is another trash can lizard. There there is another lizard that has been kind of hanging around the trash can. But it's not the same thing because it's not like living in the little lip. It's just like sometimes it's near the trash.
JVL00:13:31He knows what happens to live in the problem.
Sonny00:13:34The problem is that like and this is you know, this is a real lots of lizards run under that trash can trash can. It's a problem. So I'm I'm not I wouldn't be surprised if another one bites it here before the end of the summer. Which is too bad, you know, I like those lizards. No big news. So I have owned a propane grill. My ever since buying a house in Virginia. That's I prefer propane to charcoal but very important here. I have never actually hooked the propane up myself ever since buying the grill. I have used propane taxi or similar services.
JVL00:14:16You pay the extra fee to have them.
Sonny00:14:18I paid not only to have it delivered but also to have it hooked up so I don't have to deal with it ever. So I just like I all of a sudden I've got gas. It's working fine.
Mike00:14:29This is a safe space sunny. You can share these things with us.
Sonny00:14:32I don't know judgment. I don't feel no judge. I'm sorry. I can pay a guy a dollar to do it. Sure. I don't or two dollars. Whatever.
JVL00:14:40Whatever the fee and you pay somebody to screw in a light bulb. Whenever your light bulbs go out. Yes, would you pay that? You pay an extra dollar for some guy to come to your house and change the light bulb for me, sir.
Sonny00:14:51It is what it is more than anything else. It's just the hassle of like he I don't want to have to deal with the guy. When he comes. I just want him to like swap it out. Take it, you know, I don't have to just get rid of it. Anyway, but I realized I realized that for the 4th of July. I was going to need a new propane tank and I realized this on July 3rd. I realized this I was like, I don't have to I can't schedule the propane taxi. They won't come that there's no next day service. Unfortunately, so I had that I had to go either unhook my propane tank. Take it to the Home Depot swap it out in the little revolving machine thing that they have there like a farmer bring it bring it back to my house screw it all in but I did it. I did it all. I didn't blow up the house.
Mike00:15:44Do you have calluses on your hand Sonny?
Sonny00:15:47Can we see that I know I you know, it's a I'm a man. I am a hard labor in individual will now have I will now have heat gas. Fire for the for the meat tomorrow. It's going to be we're taping that we're taping this on July 3rd. So I'm I'm pretty no so that that that that was my adventure in masculinity for this week. Congratulations, but my other thing I see you guys see what I'm holding here. See the slinky slinky such a wonderful tool.
JVL00:16:19Can I can I every girl and every boy?
Sonny00:16:22So here's here's the thing about slinkies my children have never been able to go. Longer than literally six hours without destroying a slinky mean literally say that's literally long literally six. I to the extent that my my my daughter went to a birthday party went to a birthday party. It was at like a it was at a place where they have the arcade games. You get the tickets you exchange it for so she was only that she was only playing in the arcade for like five minutes. So she had like 30 tickets like the one thing she could get was like a little. Rainbow plastic slinky piece of piece of junk slinky not even a real slinky probably is probably like spring toy. Rubber spring toy or something literally literally on the drive home. Oh yeah, takes it out of the box starts messing with it and is like daddy. It's it's it broken and I'm like, how did you how did you manage to do that? How do you how on earth did you manage to do that? So so save to stop the tears to stop the tears. We bought a three-pack but a three-pack of slinkies where we from Amazon from Amazon came the next day for $10. We got like three metal slinkies like again the one I'm showing you right here. You see you hear this noise, but this is that slinky noise. And of course we have to give one to my son and one to my daughter. The daughter obviously to replace the one that she has lost my son to make sure that he gets the same things. Of course, got to have the same thing would not want them not to be even. And I swear to God not one hour later, not one hour later. My son now has destroyed his his slinky just a I mean, literally, I don't know how he did it. It's it's just a giant oil monster than man. It's twisted beyond recognition. And I was just like, how did you do this? How did you do this? And he start he starts crying. He says, ah, no, I don't have one. And now I don't have the metal slinky and and then he sees that there's a third one. He sees that there's a third one and he starts eyeballing it. He's like, Mommy, can I have your slinky? Mommy, Mommy, can I have your slinky for days? This goes on. So now the slinky lives in my office. Now the slinky lives in my office. And I refuse to let them have it. I read they cannot. They cannot have it. It's going to it stays here and this is like the cardboard building material.
Mike00:19:07This is your own one.
JVL00:19:09And maybe if they took better care of theirs, I don't want to pull rank as somebody with four children, many children. But if I could offer you a parenting tip Sonny, please every night when you tuck your son in, you bring that slinky home. Slinky with you. Yeah, do it in your hands like that in front of him and you say look mine is still not broken. Take better care of your things and turn and walk out.
Sonny00:19:39I uh, I mean the thing about it is is we don't even have any steps in our house. Like we don't have there's no there's no there's no like there's nothing to use. There's no sleep. There's no like platform down the only the only and this is why it keeps getting tangled up. Is because all they do with it is this they just like you can't do that. I'm showing I'm showing the guys on the video here just like waving the slinky up and down rubbing it. I like of course, it's going to get tangled up. You don't know how to put you don't have any way to play with it. Right? So you're just just what happened.
Mike00:20:15What happens is they also like put it inside itself, you know, they sort of like move and then which which warps and then it like it's like King and then you can't unkink it.
Sonny00:20:27It's. Impossible.
JVL00:20:29It is impossible to unkink recoil.
Sonny00:20:31It is. It is wild. How awful this toy is. I hate it so much. I hate the slinky. I have I have such a wonderful toy.
Mike00:20:39I feel like we went over this already.
Sonny00:20:40The slinky is the worst most garbage toy that exists. They break in a second there. I again, I don't even have any fucking stairs for them to go down here. Like they just they exist solely to aggravate me. It's like it's like my own. It's like when I go to hell. Mm-hmm, go on, you know, this, you know, you know, the scene in, you know, the Simpsons where Homer goes to hell and they're stuffing the doughnuts in that's going to it's going to be like that with me and slinky's. They're just going to bring me a million slinky's and they're all going to be twisted. They're gonna be like untwist them or you get the fucking red hot poker again. That's my that's my help.
JVL00:21:19All right, Michael. What's going on, buddy? You want a softball update?
Mike00:21:24Shall we saw boy do I? So? We played it again this past weekend against the cream pies. No, this is I don't know what they like didn't come up with a name until the end. No, no, I'm not. It's I'm not encouraging this. I'm not encouraging it either. It was one clean cream pie.
JVL00:21:43It was one tea pies.
Mike00:21:45Oh, I'm sorry. The chuggers don't also count. We literally are chugging around the bases. We're just we're just barely getting around JPL behave yourself. So we played and it was. Oh, they were late games. It's like the first one started eight o'clock. There's no lines. Yeah, lights. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We split the games again with this with this team, but I'm figuring out because we also showed up for the the games before hours or finishing up what I got there. So I was able to see more teams in this league and like they're like I am I think I've said this before except for our ringers who are like one of the. One of the players kids like I am the youngest person on our team. I bring the average day age down a lot and like the average age on all these teams is younger than me. So like not only are they younger than me. They're all like jacked like former ball players at at least like Division three level or or they're like like the half the team we played against like the other day or like cops or like firemen, you know, and it just like just. Totally again, a boy, you're looking at a boy playing with men and it's, it's bad. So, and everybody else is older. Here's the thing. I, what I need is a ruling. I need a ruling here because there was an incident. Well, there was a series of incidents. Oh boy. And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna name names and I'm, I'm just, I'm just gonna present the information and I would like for you guys, I need to know as you set
JVL00:23:23this up, was this involving your team and another team or is this a game? You. Were observed.
Mike00:23:28No, no, no, no. This was in our game.
JVL00:23:30Okay. In our first game. Okay.
Mike00:23:32Uh, so I play catcher. Uh, I am, I've got vantage point of everything. Uh, when we're on defense, uh, our pitcher for the first game is a big guy. He's a, he's a tall, big guy. He was on the board of our little league. Um, he's a good guy. He's it's his kids who, who are the ringers for us. He's really involved with, with, with youth baseball. Um, but he's a big guy. He's a strong guy. He's kind of a loud guy. And, um, like I would, I want him on my side in a fight, uh, like, like 99 times out of a hundred. Um, so he's our pitcher and the other team, wait, I'm sorry.
Sonny00:24:14Uh, question. You say 99 times out of a hundred, you want him on your side in a fight. What's the, what's the hundredth time? Uh, when do you not want him on your side in a fight, uh, when the, the lady
Mike00:24:27from JVL's pool is, uh, it's an option. Um, so he's pitching again. This is, this is summer softball. You know, they're, they're, they're lobbing them underhand. Uh, and the other team is hitting them right up the middle. Okay. It one goes up the middle, then the next one goes up the middle and they're hitting them hard, harder than even in the first game that, uh, the first set of games that we played, uh, at one point hits it right at his hand. Right. Hits his hand out. That hurts. Okay. Next batter right up the middle, even harder than the last one. He catches, it was a most miraculous catch knocks this again. I'm talking six, three, you know, 300 pound guy knocks him on his ass on the mount. And like, he took a long time to get up, kind of, kind of pit, uh, kind of hit, then the next, like two guys are hitting it right up the middle. So at this point he starts going, Hey, stop hitting it up the middle. Make it, you know, get it in a different, like hit it somewhere else. You're aiming right for me. I'm like, Oh no, no, no, we're not trying to do that. And then like the next two hit it right up the middle. And he starts, he starts getting mad and he starts saying, you're going to hurt somebody. You guys are hitting it hard, right, right to me. And, uh, and it starts a shouting match and there's like ladies on the, on the, uh, on, on the, uh, bleachers screaming back at him from the other team. Uh, there's, there's choice words being thrown. Um, the other teams like trying to diffuse the situation. Our guys are getting mad because it feels like he's being targeted and, uh, And it almost comes to blows. Okay. Wait, wait.
Sonny00:26:29So from your perspective, do you think they are intentionally hitting the ball up the middle hard at this guy? Is that even really a thing? I mean, I, I guess you can do that if you're a, if you're like really skilled, but I feel like this is not, you're that good.
JVL00:26:48You want to be hitting into gaps, not, yeah, not up the middle. That was, that was their argument.
Mike00:26:53If we were that good, we wouldn't be hitting into gaps. Um, I would say they were, they were like more powerful than maybe they, they outmatched us in terms of power, but that's not, that's not my question.
Sonny00:27:10My question isn't, my question isn't, could they hit the ball hard? My question is, were they hitting it up the middle?
Mike00:27:16So this is where I need the judgment because, because the argument from folks on our team was that maybe they're not hitting it up the middle. They're not hitting it intentionally up the middle, but they could be hitting it intentionally in other places. And in fact, it's what they ended up doing in the second game, they stopped hitting it up the middle and they started hitting it, you know, toward the, you know, toward the gaps essentially. Um, so he felt like he was being targeted. Uh, it was kind of uncanny how many, like one after another, after another, just like straight at him. Hard. Um, anyway, I don't know. What do you guys think?
Sonny00:28:00Well, JBL, why don't you're the baseball parent? I mean, what, what do you, what's your sense of, of what's going on?
JVL00:28:06I mean, the dude's got to learn to feel the fucking position. I'm sorry. If you're the pitcher, your job is to feel the position. And, uh, I mean, first of all, I am not surprised. It almost came to blows. In fact, the minute you told me that you were in embarking on the softball journey, I was like, oh, how unpleasant has it? Gotten because this is what happens with grown men who are past the point where they can play athletics for any sort of meaningful outcomes. Right. Uh, and they just like it all jacked up on fucking slow pitch softball, which is the saddest thing I've ever seen. Um, and why I, I would have been much happier if this was the kind of beer league softball where you guys are just like sitting around chugging together. Uh, I, I thought a, it is absolutely incumbent upon the pitcher to feel. Field the position. Sure.
Mike00:28:56There are all sorts of things which are, which he did by the way, every single time he hit, he caught the ball. Right? Yeah.
JVL00:29:04Yeah. And otherwise, like, you know, you have short and second shade towards second base. If you think they're just going up the middle and then you stop them there and throw out, throw them out at first, right? That's a routine play. If he's, they're going up the middle and you have shortstop and second baseman shade towards the middle of the field, then like this should be a three up three down. Uh, I am deeply sensitive to. Dangerous plays in contests, which don't have any meaning. Right. Uh, and I'm super against it. I cannot imagine a world in which guys hit the ball up. The middle falls into that. Okay. Right. Like collisions at home plate, uh, first base seven softball has separate home plates to avoid that. Right. And separate first, two first bases. So correct. The runner can go through while the first baseman has his foot and nobody's going to be tangled up and they, I assume. For your league, they have the home plate that, uh, that the runner goes to.
Mike00:30:00And then the home plate that you go to some fields do, uh, this field did not.
JVL00:30:04Yeah. So I am, I am absolutely deeply sensitive to like, don't do shit to get people hurt. This sounds like fucking grow up, man. These guys just hit the baseball. Right. And this is the law of averages is, you know, it's like you go to a roulette wheel and you're like, how did black come up 10 in a row? Well, it's because they spin it a bazillion times a day, right? This is, I don't know. Am I wrong, Sonny?
Sonny00:30:26No. I mean, look, I, the only context really I have for something similar like this would be in tennis, right? If you're playing tennis and you have a, you're, you have a weak, uh, uh, opponent in doubles at the net. Um, and you, you will sometimes get in situations where you target that guy and you hit the ball hard at them. Yep. I mean, not on the serve, but like any other time.
JVL00:30:51Um, and don't try to pass them actually hit it, right? Yeah.
Sonny00:30:53You don't, you don't try and pass. Um, you, you hit the ball at them because they, cause they, they aren't good enough to return the ball. And like, I mean, that's, that's, you know, that, that, that in and of itself can be kind of, kind of questionable kind of, you know, you know, do you really want to play? Do you want to win that way? But also like, that's the game. And if the, the player can't move back to the baseline or whatever else, I mean like, whatever, that's the game. Um, in this situation, I don't think that, I mean, look, I would have to, I, I hate, I hate to. Play armchair umpire without being there. That's what I asked you. But like, I don't, I don't understand. I simply don't understand the argument for getting upset at them. They're just hitting the ball up the middle.
Mike00:31:40A like, what did the ump say? You have an umpire, right? So the ump say the umpire just told everybody to calm down. Um, which was good advice, which was good advice.
Sonny00:31:52Well, I am.
JVL00:31:54I do want to work it out on the field right now. Let's go get it on.
Mike00:31:58I am basically in agreement. I mean, I was with you guys. I mean, I was a little shocked to see. I mean, look, I think it was really scary for the guy. I mean, it was, it was, I have never seen balls hit this hard and softball. Um, I mean, they were just, they were just knocking the shit out of these balls. And, and they were going right at him one after another. On the other hand, uh, he did start to back up after he pitched it. And it, it helped a lot actually. Yeah. Um, and I will say bringing it up. They did, they did kind of, uh, lay off a little bit and, um, and the, and the game got better.
JVL00:32:45Um, so I will give one caveat. Uh, so I have been teasing you, Michael, about getting a doctored bat. Yes. That, uh, they can. And if these guys were using doctored bats and not regulation, which is why it was coming, then I would say, well, that's fucking like the reason that banks have to be doctored is because, so bats are regulated to limit the exit velocity for the protection of the right. Right. And if these guys were using die, if that's why the balls was coming off so far so fast, then I'd be like, well, you guys fucking trying to do that.
Mike00:33:22That would be bad. It could. It could not even be doctored bats. It could just be non-regulation bats, um, which, which could be the case actually. Now I didn't think about that. Anyway, it was, it was very intense. Everybody calmed down. We ended up splitting the games. So it was all fine in the end.
JVL00:33:39Uh, shake hands afterwards.
Mike00:33:40Everybody shook hands afterward. Everybody had beers afterward. So it was fine.
JVL00:33:45I hope you took your boy's side, even if he was wrong.
Mike00:33:48Oh yeah, absolutely.
JVL00:33:49Battery. We're battering, you know, you got, you were ready to, you were ready. Not yet. Remember, remember Alex Veritech knocking the shit out of Alex Rodriguez at a home plate. Yes. Just because Rodriguez said something to the pitcher.
Mike00:34:04Do you remember this Sonny? No, I was, I was, uh, I was prepared to do that except, uh, I'm a huge wuss and, uh, I was not prepared to do that at all.
JVL00:34:14In 2004, the Yankees and the Red Sox are locked in a division race and they're in Boston. Uh, Alex Rodriguez is up at bat. I forget who's pitching. But he goes inside and Rodriguez starts talking at him from home plate. You know, it starts in Veritech. The catcher stands up, gets into Rod's face and just fucking drops him purely for the, for the, for the sin. It was a huge brawl. Yelling at his pitcher. And that then sparked a gigantic brawl. This was the night the democratic convention started in, uh, 2004. Yeah.
Sonny00:34:50I must've watched that game cause I was, well,
JVL00:34:53and then Matt Connetti and I read Fenway park for the game the next night. And it was the most electric sports atmosphere I've ever been a part of. Yeah.
Mike00:35:02All right. Well, we're, there's no Veritech, uh, a rod, uh, uh, recreation on the fields in next time. Next time. I'll, I'll, I'll try to, I'll try to, uh, instigate something. All right. Well, shall we move on? I think so. Let's, let's, let's talk a little bit about Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny. The number one movie at the box office.
JVL00:35:23That is. It's good. It is great to capture the number one spot.
Mike00:35:27It's number one. It's number one. It's it's there's no higher. You can go right. Number one, it's $60 million in the first debut weekend. Is that good? Sunny? Is that good? JVL 60 million. It's better than the flash, which by the way, dropped to number eight.
Sonny00:35:48Look, here's, so look, here's, here's, you know, what do we always say about box? The, the, the, the, the, the, the latest movie in a series is not getting judged on its own merits, getting judged on the last, right? And so this movie comes out, what, 15 years after kingdom of the crystal skull, which was notoriously not like notoriously not well liked, I think by audiences and critics made money, but made up, but made a lot of, so that movie did seven 50, something like that. Somewhere between seven 50. Yeah. Somewhere between seven 50 and 800 million worldwide. If I had totally forgotten that huge, it did huge numbers, did huge numbers. Um, so this movie, uh, is, uh, opened up to 130 million worldwide over the three day. Um, you know, how good is that? That's not good. It's bad. Uh, because this movie costs, depending on who you're listening to, this movie costs anywhere from 200 million to $350 million before advertising.
JVL00:36:52I like see every.
Sonny00:36:53Every dollar on the screen, every penny on the screen, you see it all up there. Um, so this, you know, uh, a $60 million three day weekend, even if it does something insane, like legs out to 250 million, which would be a multiple of four, uh, you know, I guess that's possible. It doesn't strike me as particularly likely, but even if it did that, even if it lagged out to 250 million domestic, and even if that was only one third of the eventual worldwide run and it got to 750 million. Domestic. I mean, this is a movie that had to gross. This is another one of these movies that had to gross a billion dollars because it was so expensive because it was an enormously expensive movie. And I like, you know, uh, I don't, I don't, I very rarely, let me qualify that. I very rarely cheer against a movie. It's very rare that I want movies to fail and I don't even want this movie to fail for precisely, but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to have a bunch of these $300 million movies, uh, lose nine figures for their studios because they, they all, they, they all have the same problem, which is that they all look bad. None of them looks good. Um, and you know, I tweeted something about this, uh, over the week, but the, the only person in Hollywood right now who should be given $300 million to make a movie is James Cameron, because when James Cameron is given $300 million to make a movie, he works those WIDA guys to death at $5 an hour, Australian or whatever they're making, and he gets every single penny of that $300 million and it's all up on the screen.
JVL00:38:37Also Tom cruise.
Sonny00:38:38No, I don't know.
JVL00:38:39I Tom cruise should also get, no, I don't, I don't think so.
Sonny00:38:42I, so this is, so this is here's, here's a mission impossible. Dead reckoning, I think costs something like $290 million, some 260, $290 million, something like that now.
Mike00:38:53Again, is that part one?
Sonny00:38:54That's just part one. So look again, you, you were dealing, we're dealing with a very weird, uh, time in which there are massive overruns that have to do with COVID productions getting shut down, um, huge testing regimes, uh, shortened filming days, whatever, like there, there are, there are reasons that the movies cost more money right now. Um, but you know, at $290 million for a mission impossible. Movie, that means that with advertising, they're all in at about 500 billion. And you gotta, you gotta make a billion dollars to make your money back. That can happen. I'm not saying it's impossible for it to happen, but you know what the rest of the mission impossible movies have made kind of a very steadily in like ever since bombing out with the third one, which again was a response to the second one. It is kind of ticked up and up and it is now. Making between 700 and $800 million a movie. That's a lot of money for a movie. That's a, I, most people would take $800 million and be like, that's great. $800 million does not get you to break even on a $290 million budget. Just doesn't. Um, question. Yeah.
Mike00:40:12Could there be some benefit to Disney going back to Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny, some benefit to Disney that this movie. This movie advertises the franchise to a new generation. So we're thinking of it in terms of what kids, what Gen Zers know Indiana Jones, but to play devil's advocate here, could this be like advertising it so that kids look into all the other Indiana Jones movies, which are on Disney plus and Hey, they'll get a subscription to Disney plus, and maybe they'll go to Disney world, uh, to Hollywood studios where the, the live show is still, you know, I mean, is that crazy? Does that make no sense?
JVL00:40:56Helena Boz, uh, and the Raiders of us, the next generation, Indiana Jones. He really gets what this is. Is it soft launches the next, the next sequel? Yeah, I mean, I don't know, man. Uh, why not just get Daisy Ridley?
Sonny00:41:12It's possible. I guess. I don't know. I it's possible. Uh, anything's possible.
Mike00:41:19Okay. So the answer is no. Um, all right, let's. Let's just, let's just move beyond this depressing box office talk. And can you give us a big boy review of Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny? The, even the title sounds stupid.
Sonny00:41:35Sonny, give us a big boy, uh, spoilers ahead. So if you, if you're worried about being spoiled for Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny to tune it, log off now. All right. Uh, Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny, Harrison Ford is back and he's young again. We start, uh, the movie in 1944, 1945, 45, but Hitler, uh, I think is just about ready in his bunker. Hitler's in his bunker. He's hasn't shot himself just yet, but Hitler really wants the spear of destiny. Um, and, uh, some, some Nazis in a castle think they found it. It turns out it's a fake, but they got something else. The Greek thing. It's got a name. They got the, uh, and, uh, now that they have the, uh, now that they have the, uh, Mads Mickelson can correct Hitler's mistakes, but Indy steals the, uh, and, uh, that's the end of the, the prelude, uh, flash forward to 1969 or so, uh, man, the United States has gone to the moon. The Beatles are playing on the radio. And Indiana Jones is sad and alone in his sad alone apartment, uh, where he lives by himself because his son has been poochied back to, uh, and, uh, Marianne has decided to leave him because she's so sad about, uh, her son being killed in the war. He's killed in the war. He's a war hero. There's actually the, I will say, look, here's, I will, I will give this movie. I will give praise to this. There's this, there's a, there's actually a very nice shot in the opening moments there where the camera kind of pans around the room and you see, uh, you see a, uh, a flag folded into a triangle. It's obviously a funeral flag. Um, you see Mutt's picture, uh, and that's right next to, uh, Indiana Jones's dad, Sean Connery. It's right next to his picture. And that tells the whole little story of what has happened here. He's died in a war, either Korea or Vietnam. Hard to say. I guess it must be Vietnam because it must be Vietnam because, uh, yeah.
JVL00:43:52Which, and you need that scene because otherwise you have to wait 20 whole minutes for Indiana Jones to give all of that exposition explicitly. Yes.
Sonny00:44:01Yes.
JVL00:44:02In case the audience is just fucking bunch of mouth breathing morons.
Sonny00:44:06Well, they are, they are, which is why you have to give them the exposition, but it's a nice little shot. It's a nice little, it's a nice little visual, it's visual storytelling. You love to see it sometimes. Um, uh, and anyway, uh, Indy is being retired, uh, he's, he's at the age where he's no longer allowed to teach. So the, uh, he's retiring. He gets a, he's his goddaughter, Helena, who's played by Phoebe Waller Bridges shows up and she's like, Hey, I need the Akin Akinos. You didn't destroy it. Like you told my dad, did you? And Indy's like, no, let's go look at the Akin Akin Akinos. And then it turns out, uh, Mads Mikkelsen still wants it because he wants to correct all of Hitler's mistakes. And then they, they have to find the second half of the Akin Akinos. All right. So here, uh, here, let me just, um, let me just stop you here because I, you know what this, uh, all of this is fine. Fine. It's, it's Indy stuff. You know, you going around the world, you're trying to find things, putting them together. There's chases and streets, blah, blah, blah. Can I, can I just say that I, um, put the slinky down.
JVL00:45:17You're, you're very upset and agitated and I don't want you to break it by accident.
Sonny00:45:22I, uh. I, the thing, the thing, the thing that, um, the thing that I find confusing about this, this film is that every single chase sequence in this movie looks worse than every other chase sequence than has been filmed in the series before it. And I can't tell, maybe you guys are, maybe you, maybe you guys disagree with me about this, but I can't tell if we are regressing. We are simply regressing as, uh, as, as filmmakers, film lovers, film watchers. Uh, in the, the fine art of the automobile chase, because it's something I noticed in kingdom of the crystal skull as well. Every time you have a closeup shot in the, uh, jungle chase in kingdom of the crystal skull, every time you're within the Jeep looking out, everything looks fake as shit all around. Just awful, fake garbage looking CGI, green screen, uh, rear projection stuff. But when you, when you, uh, when you then, uh, when you cut to a shot, that's actually outside of the Jeep where you're shooting from the rear. Obviously it's the, um, uh, stunt doubles inside driving it. It looks real because they're actually driving somewhere. They're actually driving. And the same exact thing is happening in this movie. Anytime through the streets of, uh, you know, Casablanca or wherever they are, Morocco, uh, all of, all of the shots from within the little, uh, motorbike stand that they have, that they're driving around. Look fake as hell. Just, just absolute garbage. Rear projection technology. Like we're in 1930 something. And when you, when you look at it from the outside, when you see them from, from behind, it all looks very real because they're actually driving through streets. There are somebody actually driving through the street somewhere, but you compare this to Raiders of the Lost Ark, compare this to Raiders of the Lost Ark, which has this like vibrant immediacy because Indiana Jones is always there. He's always there in the street, driving around. He's jumping in through windows. He's going under trucks like somebody is there. All the time. It just looks so much better. And I, uh, I can't tell if this is just, uh, you know, function of safety or whatever, but it looks terrible. Now it looks terrible. And all of the, all of the supposedly exciting adventure and chase and actions sequences, this brings me to my point, all look terrible and fake and phony and bad. And it's, it's, it's one thing to, it's one thing to have the dumb McGuffin. Cause you could argue, well, you know, the Ark of the Covenant is a dumb McGuffin. That movie ends with the power of God melting faces off. That's so dumb. But when, when the dumb McGuffin in this movie is, uh, we're going to go back in time and we wound up in ancient Greece for some reason, because Archimedes, Archimedes, the 25 year, 2,500 year old mathematician, whose biggest achievement was being like, when I get in a tub, water comes out, figured out the mysteries of time travel through energies in the sky. When, when, when that's your McGuffin, when that's your, I wish you guys could
JVL00:48:33see Sonny because he, he looks like he's having a stroke when that's your, when
Sonny00:48:38that's your McGuffin, the rest of the movie has to be very, very good. The rest of the movie has to be great. And the rest of this movie is not great. The rest of this movie is very bad. It's bad. The only reason I don't hate this movie, the only reason I don't hate it is because I do find Harrison Ford to be deeply charming and entertaining as Indiana Jones. I thought Phoebe Waller bridge is very good as the lady sidekick. She has this kind of smarmy British thing going on that I find very appealing and amusing, but fuck me, it, it, the real problem with this movie is that it's just a slog it's so long, it's so long. It's two and a half hours long. It's 20 minutes longer than any other Indiana Jones movie. And I, I was, I, I wouldn't say I was bored exactly, but I was frequently like, got to get to the fireworks factory, bring it back to Poochie. We got to get to the fireworks pack factory here, folks. And we're not getting to the fireworks factory fast enough. And then when we got to the fireworks factory turned out to be the dumbest shit I've ever seen. So that's, that's my review of this movie.
JVL00:49:45How did you like the new short round? He has, he hit short round VM, a grab short.
Sonny00:49:51I thought he was funny.
JVL00:49:52He has a little mustache. So he's not a kid sidekick anymore. He's a tween sidekick.
Sonny00:49:57Here's the thing that the new short round, the new short round was fine. But again, they, they do this weird thing in the movie where. New short round is angry because kids are making fun of him for wearing a straw hat. Like, do you remember the scene? The kids, so like we cut at one point to, we cut, we cut to new short round. He's, he's jealously watching these children eat ice cream or something. And. One of the kids just out of nowhere is like, look at that fucking idiot straw hat. Look at that dumb shit. He's a, he's a fucking retard and it's like, it's just like, do people talk that way? Is that like a, is that like an actual dude? Is this how humans behave ever? I guess probably somewhere somebody did that, but it, it's just, again, it's, it's a dumb thing in a dumb movie.
Mike00:50:46Um, is, is this a hint that maybe AI wrote. Part of the script.
Sonny00:50:54I don't understand what you're getting at.
Mike00:50:56I'm just saying, I mean, if there's no AI, I didn't write the script, you know, who
Sonny00:51:00wrote the script to 17 executives at Lucasfilm who were like, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta get to, we gotta ensure that everybody understands that, um, you know,
JVL00:51:10inequality is bad or whatever.
Sonny00:51:12I don't know, man. I like, I didn't, I didn't care for this movie and it, it kind of made me upset. A lot of things about it made me upset. Um, but the, just. The overarching dumbness of it, I think is what upset me the most. You know what? The other thing that upset me about, uh, uh, uh, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm rambling here, but the, the, the, the, the last thing that really bugged me was it, and this isn't James Mangold's fault, you know what, who James Mangold is not James Mangold is not Steven Spielberg. He doesn't, he doesn't have the same intuitive grasp of movement and camera position and framing and, and shot selection he just is not. As good of a filmmaker and whatever else you wanna say about the other Indiana Jones movies, which all with, I mean, Raiders of the lost ark is perfect. And last crusade is almost perfect. Temple of doom has a lot of really great sequences. Even kingdom of the crystal skull has like a very solid sense of movement and place and understands what it's doing. This movie just, the camera just sits there for so much of it. Perfect example. One last example, and I'll shut the fuck up. Uh. In temple of doom, there's this great expedition dump scene that takes place in a big banquet, right? It's the banquet at the, in the Indian palace and they have all the disgusting foods and it's very funny because the other character monkey brands, because, because, you know, Indy's having the serious chat with the, uh, the Maharaja rupee, whatever, uh, the prime minister having, having a very, very, uh, you know, important and deep chat about, you know, cultural norms, whatever. Um, and it's very funny because on, as I have then, you know, the, the lady and short round, these disgusting foods. Ah, it's very, and the camera's moving all around. It's not boring. It's not dull. There's visual stuff happening. You get the same exact scene in this movie where they're talking about the dial of destiny, the, uh, uh, it's just one shot, two shot in a bar. It's just one here's Indy talking. Here's a goddaughter talking Indy, goddaughter, Indy, goddaughter, back and forth, a shot, two shot, a shot, two shot. And I was just like, this is. Boring. I'm bored. I'm bored. I'm as bored as everybody listening to Sonny right now.
JVL00:53:29I hated it more. I hated it more. And I, I, my hatred, which is, is very visceral is for a deeper thematic reason. Everything Sonny said is correct. All of the flaws of it, you know, qua film are, are that is correct. Uh, the problems with how it looks. The problem, here's what I don't like. What is Indiana Jones? Indiana Jones was a return to fun and adventure, right? This is Indiana Jones is the pulp stuff that we all loved growing up, right? This was literally Lucas and Spielberg's inspiration for it, right? The serial films. Yep. The serial films that we all love. And here we are in the valedictory Indiana Jones installment. And we are told that Indiana Jones, who has lived this fantastic life of adventure, who is the world's most interesting man, is nothing but a sad sack. Look at him. He is a cranky old man living in his crappy New York apartment in his boxer shorts and his wife left them and he's sad and he sucks at teaching and his students don't respect them. And he's being shuffled off of his job. He's just, he's just a big sad sack. Look at that. Your hero, Indiana Jones, you thought was fun. It turns out he's fucking Willy Loman with a bullwhip. And you know what I'm talking about? Fuck you people. Fuck you people trying to tell us that the way our hero spends his golden years, the guy who was like the, again, who's had all these adventures and you would think would be a national treasurer. You think that the CIA would have him on retainer, right? This is somehow the CIA is hunting him down. Doesn't even know when we come back. And forget CIA people don't do, don't even know who he is. He put the fucking lost arc in your warehouse. That's the, he put the arc of the covenant in your warehouse. I'm sure the CIA knew exactly who Indiana fucking Jones examined the alien in the crystal skull.
Sonny00:55:37They are this whole sequence about that.
JVL00:55:39And the, the, the conceit of we're going to take this fun thing and all of a sudden at the end, we're going to tell you actually that it's all a sad, sad story and that this guy is. Basically a loser. And, uh, then we'll, you know, at the end, I guess we'll sort of, you know, redeem him. Like, look, he got out and found fun one last time. Right. And wherever you go, there you are, blah, blah, it, it, it is, it feels like people literally pissing all over a beloved character in a way that I had thought only like deconstructionist leftist radicals did to, uh, beloved traditional figures from fiction. And I, I, I got, I, I, I was really, really angry watching the whole fucking movie because of that.
Sonny00:56:38Michael.
Mike00:56:41Uh, I mean, what can I say? You're going to, you're going to say, actually, I loved it. I, I, I did, I did love it. No, no, I'm just kidding. No. I didn't, I did not hate it, but everything that you guys keep saying makes me hate it. You know what I mean? Like I walked out of the theater, bore, I was bored with it. I didn't, I didn't love it. There were parts of it that I liked. And what I came out of the theater thinking was like, I could have trimmed that movie down and it would have been a fun movie. All the problems that, all the problems that, that, that Sonny mentioned about, about the way it looked, I agree with, I actually thought I've been reading. A little bit that, that people seem to like the de-aging of Harrison Ford, uh, in the, in the, in the first part, I hated it. I thought it looked bad from the beginning. I thought they were hiding it with shadows.
Sonny00:57:34No, no, no. Here's, here's, here's what you were actually saying. It looked fine.
JVL00:57:38It sounded, sounded totally old man. It had old man Harrison. Also moved like old man Harrison. Yes. There was a way they were not in every shop, but there were shots. In which it was like Robert De Niro and the Irishman were like, all of a sudden, I'm sorry. And you don't like Godzilla. This fucking, why is that entire sequence shot at night on a train? Because it looks like shit. And they were trying to hide how shitty it looked.
Mike00:58:08Well, and all it made me think of was, uh, kid Indy in the beginning of last crusade. Um, it made me think, uh, that's the other thing, this, this, the movie doesn't sort of like indulge too many member berries, except that like, all it made me do was think about all the better movies in the Indiana Jones, you know, series, like
JVL00:58:33just because there are only two better movies. Well, so my series basically sucks.
Mike00:58:38My favorite is actually temple of doom. So put that in your temple of doom. I love temple of doom. And guess what? All three of those movies are totally agree with you, Sonny, half of the things half more than half of the things that everybody loves about Indiana Jones are from temple of doom. They are, they simply are. It's it's the, that the grabbing the hat, uh, the, uh, like half of the, uh, the catchphrases anyway, um, that's, that's, that's neither here nor there. So this movie, a couple of other complaints. Okay. I actually liked the thing at the end. It wasn't in Greece, by the way, it was, uh, they were on the Isle of Sicily, Syracuse or whatever they were, uh, I kind of liked
JVL00:59:21that because his people keep track of these things, Sonny.
Sonny00:59:24Yeah, exactly. We know where the Sillians are at all times.
Mike00:59:32Um, I kind of liked that. I thought it was like, as far as, as far as, as far as twists go or sort of like, I liked the way it felt like old Indiana Jones in a good way where he's like figuring out how they, how they fucked it up. Um, and you know, where he's like, you know, continental drift, they haven't considered continental drift.
Sonny00:59:56None of this makes any sense. None of this makes sense because, because as, once we get to Sicily and we've, we learned that the Acona, Acona knows was designed from the start to trick people to come back to Greece, to help Archimedes defeat the Romans. How does that work? Once again, I'm asked, I'm begging somebody to explain to me how the bathtub water got out of the water. I was like, we need the art, the, the coordinates, uh, and the arc of the sun.
JVL01:00:30And the screw, I'm sorry.
Sonny01:00:33Ridiculous.
JVL01:00:33Is that the name of one of your softball teams in your league, the Archimedes screw?
Mike01:00:38Um, so a couple other things. Okay. But, but regardless, a couple of other things I hated the CIA agent, right. Or she was CIA or FBI. The most.
JVL01:00:51Pointless character. She gets a lot of screen time for somebody who just gets shot in the gut and dies for no reason. And doesn't move the plot along.
Mike01:00:59And, and also like what, what purpose does she serve? She, you, you start off, I started off thinking, oh, like this is kind of, she's an interesting character at first because she looks like the time period. Like she, she definitely like evokes the most, like in her fashion, like the time period that you're in. So you re really feel like between that and the Beatles. And the moon landing and you're like, okay, we're in a different time period than we've ever seen Indiana Jones before. Cool. Okay. Um, so she sticks out and yet she doesn't like, she basically spends the whole time going like, wait, what's happening. I'm not sure about this. Guys, stop shooting. Stop hurting these people. What point does she serve? And then as you say, JVL, she gets shot in the gut and then it's over. And like, what was the point of that character?
JVL01:01:48That character has no reason to exist.
Mike01:01:51No reason. They made me mad.
Sonny01:01:52I'm trying to, I, I've for the last week or so, I've been trying to parse exactly what Mads Mikkelsen's relationship to the United States of government was. I mean, I understand that he's like, I understand, I understand that he's Werner Von Braun. Right. I get that, but I'm saying like everything else about him where they're like, you should go meet with the president and not do this other thing you want to do. And like, you should go like, I w why was there a C I guess so she. She CIA, but then there was another CIA handler, the guy who was like in, in the, he had the sling for some reason, his arm was in a sling. Who was that guy, who was that guy exactly? Right. So once again, what I, when, when Mike suggests that this was written by an AI, it wasn't, it was written by 17 Lucasfilm executives who were trying to figure out how to make this plot work and also make sure you gotta keep, gotta keep that, that. Actress in there. Cause otherwise we have zero black characters in this movie and that's a real problem. That's a real problem for everyone, but this is never Boyd Holbrook.
JVL01:02:59I guess if I had to say one nice thing about this movie is Boyd Holbrook, who plays a henchman, he doesn't really do much, but his presence on screen is nice. Well, and then there's also the German menace.
Sonny01:03:10There's also the German Jack Reacher. That guy was that guy, that guy had a good presence. Cause he looked weird.
JVL01:03:16He was just a little bit, he's seven foot two.
Sonny01:03:19He's he's an enormous man. This brick shit house of a man.
Mike01:03:23But sorry, back up. This is not a PR this has not been a, I mean, you can say that on, on the black characters in Indiana Jones, like Raiders has a very important key black character. Like, this is not like hard. It's not like you have to shoehorn in diversity necessarily like into, into Indiana Jones. You should like actual, it just makes me nothing about this. You're right, Sonny. It's all core. It's like. Corporate, uh, moving pieces into the place so that, oh, we can shove this all in.
Sonny01:03:57Oh, and I know we'll take, I mean, you know, my, along these, along these lines. So there's, we haven't even talked about this at all, but Antonio Banderas is in this movie.
JVL01:04:06I say this for like 20 minutes. The only person who I thought looked like they were having fun in the entire movie is in until is Antonio Banderas. Yeah.
Sonny01:04:15Well, I, I think Harrison Ford does as well, but here's, so I, I, I actually, I liked Antonio Banderas in that. I thought it was a nice little, it was a nice, it was a nice little character turn. It's, it's like a little, it, it really does feel like a throwback to like Sala, Sala. Yes. Yep.
JVL01:04:31Yep. Yep. Yep.
Sonny01:04:32But, but then he gets, he gets killed, he gets killed. And then this is, this is, I think, emblematic of everything that's wrong with the whole movie. Uh, they have this whole little adventure. He gets gut shot. He dies. Uh, it blows up his boat. And then as they're speeding away. On the boat, Phoebe Waller bridge makes a little quip and Andy turns to her with a sour puss look on his face and says, my friend was just murdered. And it's like, well, all right, thanks. Captain buzzkill. Fucking like, I, I know that sucks for you and that, but like this whole, this whole thing is supposed to be more fun than that.
JVL01:05:14This is supposed to dwell on those things.
Mike01:05:16That's not fun.
Sonny01:05:18I mean, it's not a fun thing in Raiders.
Mike01:05:21There's a moment where, you know, the, the, the, the part where Marion is supposedly blown up and like India, like when Sala comes to find him and he's like, Marion's dead. And Sala was like, I know. And then they just move on because like, can I, I want to say something about Phoebe
JVL01:05:39Waller bridge, um, because I think her performance is nice, but the character as written is crazy. Terrible. The character as written is basically a sociopath. Yeah. And yet we are expected to be kind of rooting for her because she's young and sassy.
Sonny01:06:04Well, she has, she has an arc. She has an arc. Yes. She starts as a, she starts as kind of a, kind of a, kind of, kind of a B word.
JVL01:06:16And she's still not a B word as a sociopath, like somebody who is.
Sonny01:06:21And she, she, you know, uh, continues like that for a long time. And then she knocks Indy out.
JVL01:06:28Magically stopped.
Sonny01:06:29She knocked, she knocks, she knocks Indy out on the island of Sicily. And, uh, w when he comes back awake in New York, got back somehow that that's somebody, somebody joked about this on Twitter, but that that's one of the biggest yada yadas in film history. Like just showing up, cutting, cutting from Sicily in a three hundred BC or whatever to, uh, to
JVL01:06:53that's worse than Bruce Wayne getting out of the pit and then showing up in Gotham.
Sonny01:06:57That's 100% the same thing. Um, it's, uh, uh, and then, and then now she's, uh, she's learned her lessons about the importance of, uh, it belongs in a museum or whatever.
JVL01:07:13Ridiculous. It was a confused character is what it's like. Yeah. And again, I think Phoebe Waller-Bridge does her best with the material she has there.
Sonny01:07:20I think she's. I think she's real. I actually think she's really good in that role. I think she is, uh, you're right. It's a bad character, but she is, she is charming and she's, she's wet.
Mike01:07:30She's winning. I think is like a good way.
Sonny01:07:32Like you sort of, she's a winning screen presence, but that should have been the
JVL01:07:37character should have been written again, 70% less psychotic, right? More, more sort of Marion ask kind of, she's a broad and she's a tough broad and less like this. This person is an insane person who is just spewing death and destruction around
Sonny01:07:56them or like, or like genuinely desperate. Like she needs, she needs to get, she needs to get this thing to sell it. For a very specific reason. She has to save somebody or whatever, but like, instead it's just like, I was going to marry this guy and then I didn't, I guess, fuck him. Uh, but now I owe a lot of people money.
JVL01:08:14Uh, cause also I'm a gambling addict and an alcoholic and I got very clear that she's an alcohol.
Sonny01:08:21I got this little, I got this little kid. I got to take care of. He flies airplanes. Can you believe it?
JVL01:08:26Ah, no, no, here's a closing question for us. Driving greener there. Are we, are we finally done with Indiana Jones? Is it, do we, Harrison Ford? Isn't going to do another one, but is Disney going to shove another Indiana universe movie down our throats or will the death of this at the box office prevent that because that's what I was afraid of. If this movie succeeded, we were going to get Helena then as the new Indiana Jones and get another installment of this bullshit, boy, I, I would, if I could
Sonny01:09:08be a fly on any corporate wall, it would be, uh, the ones where Bob Iger and his people are trying to figure out what the fuck to do with Lucasfilm, right? Because that place is a disaster area all around. I mean, like everything they are doing is, is bad. Like it's either bad creatively or it's bad commercially, or it's just not happening. Or it's just not happening. I mean, like how many, how many star Wars movies have been announced and
JVL01:09:38then canceled in the last, they lose less money on the, they lose less money on the star Wars movies they don't make. I mean, that's the star Wars movies they make.
Sonny01:09:45Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's crazy. But I mean, I just don't, uh, you know, the, the TV shows. Are between middling and bad. Um, you know, Marvel has its own issues right now, but it's still, it's still is kind of making decent movies that are making, making decent money.
Mike01:10:03Was Lucasfilm doing the willow show that was the willow show.
Sonny01:10:07They got not only got not, not only canceled after one season, but disappeared from the Disney plus service because nobody watched it. And you know, it's God, I, I got into a, uh, I got into a, uh, fight with somebody on online who was like, you know, well, I mean, it's just really a, you know, willow had all these fans and, you know, they're taking it away and I'm like, if willow had fans, if that, if that television show had fans that would not be removing it from the service, you know, how many people watch that show? Zero people, zero people on planet earth. Watch that show. Nobody loved it. I can guarantee you. Nobody loved it. Um, but like, I, I don't, I, I don't understand. And what exactly they are going to do with Lucasfilm. The thing that they need to do is the thing that they will never do, because it would give the bad people a win. It would give the bad people a win. And the thing they need to do, like, I'm sorry, Kathleen Kennedy service to her country has been greatly appreciated and she has done, she produced many great things, but she needs a promotion. Like yesterday, she needs to be promoted into some higher up role at Disney.
JVL01:11:20Most disastrous film executive in modern history.
Sonny01:11:24I mean, look, I, who could say, who could say I wouldn't, I certainly wouldn't want to go on that sort of out, out far on that big of a limb, but, uh, she's not, she's not, um, she just got, I, they need, they need fresh blood. They need fresh blood in Lucasfilm. That's all I'll say about that.
Mike01:11:45All right. Any final thoughts on Indiana Jones in the dial of death? Destiny, Sonny, I will say this. I am okay.
JVL01:11:55I want to amend what I said previously about having another series of Indiana Jones with Phoebe Waller bridge as the new Indiana Jones. My objection to that is because this shit sucks. If this movie had been fantastic and we were going to send like, do another, we're going to start it over with the Indiana Jones and the next generation. And it's Phoebe Waller bridges character as a, then. I would have been all for it. Sure. The reason I want this thing put in the ground is because it's so bad. And, uh, I don't want any more of it.
Sonny01:12:30Agreed. But I mean, here's, here's the, uh, like I spent, I spent the first 300 words of my review talking about the lack of the logo, the lack of a lack of the paramount mountain, right. Fading into a thing on the screen, which has been a hallmark of these, the first four, any movies it is, it doesn't exist here because they can't, they can't exist here because paramount has to be sidelined. This is a Disney, this is Disney and Lucasfilm, Disney and Lucasfilm. That's, that's who's in charge now. And the problem, the problem with, with all of this is that Disney has made a $5 billion investment, $4 billion investment in Lucasfilm, and they got, they got to figure out how to, they got to figure out how to get that money back. Somehow they're not getting it back from star Wars. Although maybe, maybe the success of the Mandalorian and all the Disney plus subscriptions that it drove, like basically paid for itself, who I don't know.
JVL01:13:28Who sold $4 billion worth of baby Yoda plushies.
Sonny01:13:31So like I, so like maybe, maybe whatever, maybe it's, it's all worked out, but like they have these, they have the most valuable thing. They have the most valuable thing in the entire world. JBL. What is that? I intellectual property. That's right. Mike Warren. Thank you.
JVL01:13:50I, I am sorry. I think the star Wars is why way overvalued as intellectual property. And I think one of the things we have discovered since the, actually the, the Lucas prequels is that star, the star Wars that we thought was the most valuable IP in the history of the world after return of the Jedi turns out to be much less valuable than anybody thought.
Sonny01:14:12But remember that $4 billion also included Indiana Jones, Indiana Jones, huge IP, you know what people here in Indiana Jones. They know what that means. It's Fedora and it's a bullwhip and it's artifacts and it's the wrath of God. And that's Sean Connery.
Mike01:14:28I've drunk the blood of Kali.
Sonny01:14:30Um, so you have this thing and it's very valuable. You can't just get rid of it. You can't just get rid of it. JBL, you got, you, you got, you gotta keep it going. It's gotta keep it. If it doesn't perpetuate itself, what's the point? What's the point of anything that we're doing? And that is why we, we, it's. In 10 years, there will be another Indiana Jones.
Mike01:14:53Well, I just think the lesson here is go woke, go broke. Um, one final thought. I loved that. The Beatles, uh, needle drop that they used at the beginning of this movie was magical mystery tour, a song you never hear being used. It's a forgotten song. It's not, uh, it's not one of the, one of the go-to, so I love that. That's all. I have to say about this movie. I think we're, uh, we're done. Uh, thanks for listening. Sub beacon.com go, uh, check us out, uh, become a patron comment. And, uh, we'll talk to you next time.
JVL01:15:39All right. Oh man. That I, I'm sorry that that turned into such a bitch session, but it deserved it.
Sonny01:15:47Well, it's funny because I think we're actually, I think we're actually out of the mainstream of, uh, you were opinion on this, not necessarily critical opinion, although you mean, but I, it gotta, it gotta be plus from cinema score.
JVL01:16:00I think that's bad for a movie like this.
Sonny01:16:02It's better than kingdom of the crystal skull.
Mike01:16:04Can I, can I say, I, uh, I had some free time and I rewatched, uh, uh, Raiders, uh, today. Uh, it's so good and it is so, I, I don't know how. To put this into words. So you can cut this if you want, but like watching it and then thinking about what the movie, what dial of destiny looked like, what it felt like. It's like, there's been such a flattening, like all movies feel the same now. Maybe it's because I see them all the time. Maybe this is how you feel about everything, Sonny, but like, this just felt like any other action movie. And it was, it was just blah and like Raiders that felt like.
Sonny01:16:50Holy shit. This is the coolest fucking thing I've ever seen. Because, because again, look, I, we, we, you know, people, you can joke about me gushing over Steven Spielberg all you want, but here's the simple fact of the matter. I'm not, here's a simple fact of the matter. James Mangold is a perfectly competent studio director. Like he is a, he, he gets in there, he does the job. It's competent, it's clear, but it is, he is not, it's, he's not made of making inspiring filmmaking. When, when you look at something like Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, what you see is a, a whole series of sequences, one after the other in which the camera is constantly in movement and not in ways that are just like shaky or random, they are planned out by Steven Spielberg in his head, the day of the shot, usually, and he just like puts, he puts, he puts track down, he puts cameras down. Go from corner to corner, boom, boom.
JVL01:17:52We're doing, uh, God, there was, there was a, there's the one scene where, um, in
Sonny01:17:56Raiders of the Lost Ark, where he is packing his suitcase, he's just packing his suitcase, right? And the, the camera, the camera, it's a, it's almost a one-er. It's not quite a one-er because it cuts, uh, at one point to see him put the gun in the, in the suitcase, but that whole sequence is a couple minutes long and it's just Harrison Ford and what's his name, Marcus, Marcus Brody talking about what it, what it would mean to find the Ark, right? Like what it would actually mean. And Spielberg is just going around and around this room, just going all over the place, cameras constantly in movement. We're constantly going from actor to actor, from act, it feels real and vibrant and immediate, and it's not visually boring. I mean, like that is just, that is just the long and the short of it. All of this stuff is shot in front of green screens. It's all sliced together in the editing room. All one shot, two shot dialogue. I like, I'm sorry. It is. It's just fucking boring to look at and whatever, whatever you want to say about temple of doom JBL, it's never boring to look at not there isn't that's there's not a boring shot in that film.
JVL01:19:06And for bonus episode this week, we're going to do another 45 minutes on this fucking movie that we all hate.
Mike01:19:12I'm sorry. I just, I just, I had to compare it to the thing that I just saw. What I love, even though temple remains my favorite, like Raiders is perfect and it's just perfect. But also like nobody, but it's not just this movie, right? Like all movies feel bland.
JVL01:19:29Let me give you one, one. I actually think that what we're suffering from begins in the Lucas prequels. So in the Lucas prequels, which I just watched, uh, attack of the clones
Mike01:19:41with my kids for the first time. And I noticed it here, Rick, Rick, what's his face.
JVL01:19:45Who's one of the EPS, um, Rick Berman, maybe, uh, it says, you know, there's the fame famous line from the, the making of where he talks about, you know, every frame is so densely packed.
Mike01:19:57It's so dense. It's it's he's Canadian. It's so dense, right?
JVL01:20:01And think about the airfield scene in Raiders where, where Indy's at the airfield and you've got like a couple of planes, right, because it's practical and they're, they're in a, they're in an open space and they've got a couple planes. If that. Is done today, that airfield is going to have like 500 planes around it. Shit.
Mike01:20:25We have to have a CGI shot of all the planes because, because CGI allows us to be all
JVL01:20:32densely, right. CGI allows us to densely pack everything. And if we do it practically, then the frames will look more empty. And so that's what everybody does. Instead of, instead of just doing it practically and, or, and doing it on location where it might look more empty, but it feels more visceral and more real. yep all right i'm sure it's fine
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