#172. 'Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves'
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Sonny, JVL, and Mike all loved Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves, with JVL going furthest, calling it enormously fun and declaring Chris Pine "the closest thing we have to a modern day Harrison Ford"; all three praised the movie for embracing rather than sneering at the source material's inherent silliness, singling out a graveyard resurrection sequence for its comic timing and a paladin's absurd fish-baby rescue gag as highlights, while Sonny and Mike (unlike JVL, who defended it as Between Two Ferns-style awkward comedy) agreed a Bradley Cooper cameo as Michelle Rodriguez's diminutive ex-husband was the one bit that didn't land. Before getting to the movie the trio also breaks down a strong $37-38 million opening weekend against a $150 million budget and debates whether that's a disappointment (JVL) or a solid result given D&D's cursed live-action history (Sonny). The episode opens with its usual lengthy hangout: JVL raves about the trailer for The Blackening while nervously wondering if he's "allowed" to want to see it, Sonny discusses bingeing Atlanta and unveils that his four-year-old has started dropping actual f-bombs at school (picked up, he confesses, from Sonny's own habit of swearing around the house), and Mike recounts installing a smart lock at his wife's insistence and taking his eight-year-old on a Shenandoah National Park cabin trip where he taught the kid poker, blackjack, and the card game Sequence. They close by revisiting Michelle Rodriguez's onscreen presence and lamenting that she wasn't cast in The Blackening.
From the show notes
Just a bit of a warning: some saltier-than-usual language at the top of this show. No idea why Sonny's kid is dropping f-bombs!
Full transcript
Mike00:00:00"What is it exactly that you bring to this?" "I'm a planner. I make plans." "You've already made plans, so..." "If the existing plan fails, I make a new plan." "So you make plans that fail." "No." "He also plays the lute." "Not relevant." Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Podcast. I'm your co-host Mike Warren. With me as always are my two co-hosts who are always rolling a natural 20, Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. We'll be talking about Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves in just a few minutes. But first, how was everyone doing? How was everyone's weekend? JBL. I got a question for you fellas.
JVL00:00:47But we got to be careful. Care-ful? I saw the trailer for The Blackening.
Sonny00:00:55I don't know what that is. It looks amazing. What is The Blackening? I don't know what that is.
JVL00:00:57You haven't seen the trailer for The Blackening? I don't know what that is. No. It seems to be an elevated horror movie where a group of African-American friends go to a cabin in the woods for a weekend. And while there, one of them is abducted by a saw-type person who has set up a game room in which there's a game called The Blackening. And it looks like comedy. Comedy, horror, all that. I think it looks amazing, everything about it. I just thought I would love to go see that movie. And then I thought, am I allowed that? Is that okay?
Mike00:01:42I don't think so. You've now been canceled. We have just canceled you. This is why cancel culture exists for this moment here. No, so like the elevator pitch on this movie is like, okay, it's cabin in the woods.
JVL00:01:57Imagine saw meets get out woods meets saw meets get out, but funny.
Mike00:02:03Like get out was funny. I think that was like, that's funny. Yeah.
JVL00:02:07This looks leaning a little more into the funny than get out. Anyway, I think that's the basic idea. And it's the, one of the gags is like the, when the voice comes on and says, you know, the, I will kill Shanice or whatever the, the person they have, she, they have abducted and, uh, unless one of you agrees to become a sacrifice for her. And the person who must be sacrificed is the person who is the least black. At which point we then in the trailer get cuts around to each of the
Mike00:02:40characters, trying to explain why they're the least black. And again, I maybe I'm not allowed
JVL00:02:47to laugh at it. I don't know, but I was on the floor. Well, this, this is like, this is like
Sonny00:02:52the show Atlanta, uh, which I have, which I have now almost finished writing. Watching. I have like, I binge the series. Ryan loves it. Yeah, I know. I know. He, he's always trying to get you to watch it so we can do a show on it. Um, uh, but I've, I've now watched almost the whole thing. I've got literally one episode left. I've been just watching it at the gym. Cause it's a, it's a really good gym length. Like anyway. Um, uh, but I like, I'm terrified to say anything positive or negative about it. I don't know. I don't know what I can really say about the show because it is very, it's very like, explicitly specific to the, uh, uh, black American experience, uh, in, in our times. And like in, in some of that, like this is there, there, there are episodes in the series that are, that could have been made by like the daily wires film production unit, uh, in, in hit some of the same points. Um, uh, and, and people would have lost their minds about it, but because Donald a black American, he can, you know, he, he has more say so, but I, but I like, don't know how I, I wouldn't even, I wouldn't feel comfortable talking about that show on this show. And I definitely do not feel comfortable even thinking about talking about the blackening on this show.
JVL00:04:14It's well, that'll have to be for one of our bonus, not even on a bonus episode,
Mike00:04:18I don't think 15 minutes of silence. Is this a Jordan peel? It was like his name on the,
JVL00:04:26you know, producer or I don't believe so, but I was laughing so hard that maybe it said that
Mike00:04:33it was a red band trailer because it sounds, it almost sounds like a key and peel sketch,
JVL00:04:38right? Like, yeah, it sure does. I'll, you know, I'll effort that while you guys talk about your
Mike00:04:43weekends. Okay. Well, all right, Sonny, tell us about your weekend. What's going on?
Sonny00:04:48I saw, I saw a different trailer. I saw the whitest trailer of all time. Uh, the Barbie trailer, the, for the Greta Gerwigs.
JVL00:04:56Barbie, which, uh, I'm sorry. I'm looking at the one sheet for it. And the tagline is we can't all
Mike00:05:02die first for the black and not for the bar. Okay. Okay. Just, just clarifying. All right, Sonny
Sonny00:05:12Barbie. Uh, yeah, I, uh, Barbie, uh, I don't know. I don't really have anything to say about that. Um, I don't know, man. I like, I'm, I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to keep it together before uh, before I get out of, out of town here. Uh, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, are you, do you want to, do you want to disclose? I don't want, I don't want to talk about, I don't want to talk about where I'm going. Um, uh, not until I get back. Uh, but you know, it's, it's always fun trying to, trying to pack for a trip that the kids will be coming on because, uh, I usually bring two books and if I get through one of them, I'm very, very lucky. Um, but the nice thing about the kids being old enough to just zonk them out with tablets is that we just zonk them out with tablets on the airplane. Now, now we just like, we plug in our head, we plug in headphones and we put them on the screen and stop talking and we're like, you gotta be quiet. You gotta be, you gotta be very quiet and watch this. Uh, but I, I have to make sure not to program any music on them. Um, because what my, my youngest son he's four now, uh, is very into rant and randomly, he is very into the strokes. Second album, first impressions of earth. That's the third album. Oh, that's the third album.
Mike00:06:32That's the third album. Wait, what was the second one? Uh, the second one is, uh, um, damn it. If you hadn't asked me this first one is, uh, is this it? The second one is something on fire, uh, room on fire, room on fire, room on fire. You're right. You're right. No, you're
Sonny00:06:47right. This is the third, the third strokes out strokes album. So he's very into the third strokes album. Um, at least I think it's, you know what? Hold on. Let me just make sure. I want to make sure I have this right, because I do, uh, have an actual point here that I want to make. Yeah. First impressions of birth. Um, so first impressions of earth, he really loves the second song on this, uh, on this album, um, juice box, very into it. He's very into that song. It's got the kind of like, he's got that kind of driving theme. He's very, he's very into it. And he, he, he like yells the lyrics. He's like, wow. Or like some approximation of the lyrics that a four-year-old would do. And then, but the problem, the problem is that the third album, the first or the first or the third song, the first line of like the third song in the third album contains a very clear F bomb. It contains a very clear F bomb. And when he, when, when we get to that, what happens is he stops singing and interrupts the song and says, I don't, I can't say that F word, but I can say another F word. And then he'll say like, family or fun. And I'll be like, that's right. That's right, man. You can say that one. You can say that one, but you cannot say the other one fire truck. And the reason, the reason he can't say that one is because he has gotten in trouble at school for saying he's he's at the age where he will, he will, uh, it will be very funny to, for him to just like blurt it out. And we have been, can't do that, man. Did you get a call from school? Oh yeah. We got a, we got a note. Well, it's like a note on the app, you know, cause it's all apps now. God forbid the teacher has to talk to you. We got an app note. Uh, and so, so, uh, now, instead of saying, instead of saying the F word and I'm trying my hardest as the, as the father to not fork to, he says, instead of saying FN, he says, loving. He says, you know, I just love it, which like, I don't want to explain. I don't want to explain to him that he's, he's doing, he's, you know, in the same family with that, that word.
JVL00:09:04Do you know what context he used the F word in at school? Was he just like, this is fucking great. Or was he saying, fuck you Brandy?
Sonny00:09:14No, it wasn't either one of those. Uh, I think he just kind of said it.
Mike00:09:19The stroke song it's like in classic strokes version. It's just, he just casts off. It's like, I think it's like fucking around or something. Right? So it's like,
Sonny00:09:30I'm fucking around. No, but the problem, it's not like he picked it up from the strokes. He didn't pick it up from the strokes. He learned it from daddy. He learned it from me around the house just like while you're trying to replace that led light was not, that's not, uh, unlikely, frankly. Um, well, we know you weren't doing plumbing just, uh, just, uh, you know, it's, it's me constantly around the house going, what the fuck is wrong with you? I'm like the dad. I realized now that I am the dad from a Christmas story. I'm the dad from a Christmas. I just constantly, constantly cursing under my breath. And the mom gets the call from the friend. It's like, where did you guys hear that word? And, uh, Ralphie instantly sells out his friend. He's like, uh, or whatever, whatever his, uh, buddy's name is. Um, that, that is me. Now I'm that I'm that, uh, person. And it's funny. Cause it's like, what do you, I, like, I don't know, man, I, that's just, that's how I talk. Right. So I got it. Now I have to,
JVL00:10:35now I have to change my life. Cause this kid, don't you, don't you ever change Sonny you live
Sonny00:10:41your truth. I shouldn't have to change. I shouldn't have to be watching my language because a small child is around me at all times. Uh, I should be able to say whatever I want,
JVL00:10:54whatever I want to whoever I want. This is America. You tell that child of yours, this is America. And I'm allowed to say you ever hear about the fucking first amendment son,
Sonny00:11:04first amendment, you little shit. Uh, no, uh, no, but I, you know, it it's, it's, uh, anyway, it's, it's very funny now to, uh, have this word come up in other contexts, like in a song or something else, because he will like instantly stop whatever is going on. Be like, I can't say that word. And it's you're right. You're you can't say that word. Not until you're old enough to go die
Mike00:11:29in Vietnam. Yeah, no, they're, they're ears like prick up at those things. Like they're, they're, they're like on alert to hear it. You know, my cousin's growing up always, their solution was to say purple whenever there was a bad word in a song. Um, and so just teach him the good place,
JVL00:11:47right? Yeah. The shit for fuck and now that that stuff drives me crazy. That stuff drives
Sonny00:11:54me crazy. I love that. I, the, the, uh, the, the other solution here is to start listening to like kids bop albums. Should I, should I get a bunch of kids bop albums?
Mike00:12:05Well, here's the, you know, I'm good. Well, well, well, what, no, what I was gonna say is I, I guess my kids are just so sheltered because the words that we, the, the words that I don't like to hear from them are like tame by comparison because, um, I'm like kind of a stick ler. I guess I, I, I think my dad was a real stickler for bad language, even though he used bad language all the time. But like, if, if we said it, it was like terrible. So like I've be, you know, I have just become the same way, but like, you know, I don't like to hear stupid, you know, I don't like to hear those like pretty tame words. And so my kids have like found these like workarounds where they're like, we're like, I think I said it like once where I was like, I don't like to hear stupid. Like, please don't use that word to talk about your brother or how you feel about this, whatever. And so they've now found workarounds like past where I've like the point where I've forgotten that I even cared about stupid. And so like my eight year old son will say that was not smart. And he'll like stop himself. Whereas like, I'm like now saying stupid all the time. And like, he doesn't, you know, like he doesn't register. It's just like, it's almost become Pavlovian that like, if he's about to say a word that I don't really care that much about, like he's now stopped himself. Um, all I'm saying is you gotta break there. You gotta
Sonny00:13:23break their spirit. Uh, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta clockwork orange. I'm like this to where they like, whenever they, whenever the urge to say, uh, stupid occurs, you start to get like, yeah, it worked. Just holding their eyes open. It worked with Alex all and, and all that happened with him as he tried to kill himself. So it's fine. I mean, it's, you know, it's okay. That's
Mike00:13:48right. This, these things work out. So I was so, so this weekend I had a, I had a big weekend, but related to this, I was, I was playing a playlist of nineties country songs. Um, as I was spending the weekend with, uh, the eight year old and, um, nineties country is like pretty tame in terms of language and that sort of thing. I mean, it's country music. Um, but there is an Alan Jackson song, uh, that, uh, does have a kind of explosive word in it, which is, um, sexual. Oh, are you guys, you guys aren't familiar with Alan Jackson's oeuvre. Are you couldn't name a
Sonny00:14:28single Alan Jackson song? I'm going to throw that out there. Well, uh, yeah, so this is,
Mike00:14:34this is, I can't remember which album this is from. It's it's, I don't even know your name. And he always says is sexual games. And he says it like in the chorus. So he says it over and over again. And I'm like not paying attention as we're like driving in the car here. And I realized that I keep saying sexual games over and over again. And like the eight year old, doesn't have like any, like he's listening to everything, but like you can tell, like when things are just going right past him and like, he's not even like registering. That's like, he's not even asking what is that word? Like he asks about like what words are all the time. But so like, I don't know, like, I don't know what I'm doing, but, but you know, like the, if I, if I don't have to answer, like, what is a sexual game to my eight year old? Like that's like, I'm like, I feel like, okay, I'm doing okay. Regardless of everything else. Well, sometimes
Sonny00:15:22when a mommy and daddy love each other very much and they go to the leather store.
Mike00:15:29Exactly. Uh, anyway, so I guess, well, should I talk about what I, what, what was going on? What did you do this week? Yeah. So Mike, so, uh, what projects did you do? No projects. Um, although I did get a new project, I have to install a, uh, a, a, a smart lock, right. A, um, smart lock on our house. Um, when did you choose? I got a Yale. I don't understand.
Sonny00:15:52Explain to me what a smart lock is. I'll explain to the folks at home what a smart lock is. Uh,
Mike00:15:59it's a lock that, uh, like a deadbolt in this case that, um, goes on the door of your house. And instead of requiring a key, it requires a number code, or you can use your phone.
Sonny00:16:15No, no, no. This is how, this is how the robots trap you in your house. This is how the robots trap you in your house and burn you alive in it. This is not, what are you doing? Why are you doing
Mike00:16:28this? Because my wife told me to, that's why I'm doing it. Oh, that makes sense. Okay. All right.
Sonny00:16:34So she's in league with the robots. She's in league with the robots. Has she been replaced by a robot? Perhaps. Is she a robot? Perhaps. Is she a Stepford replacement bot? She's a Stepford
Mike00:16:45wife replacement bot. Um, so, but that's, but I haven't even done that yet. What I did this weekend was, uh, it's actually this, this week, uh, starting on Sunday. Uh, so the eight year olds spring break is this week. And so I took them on a two week, two day trip to the Shenandoah national park. We rented a cabin. We did some hiking sky Meadows. No, no, no sky Meadows is, is farther up. So there's skyline drive, which is the drive that goes down and there's big Meadows, um, which is in Shenandoah. Um, but we actually stayed in a cabin just outside of, uh, of the park, but with easy access to the park. And I mean, we just, uh, we did one hike a day. We, so we'd ended up doing three hikes. You know, there was another hike we were going to do. And like, we just started on and he turned to me and said, dad, can, can we just go back to the cabin? I was like, yeah, of course let's go. You know, let's go play games or like, what are we, you know, we grilled out hot dogs or something. Um, and you know, plate. So we did play games. We brought a bunch of stuff, you know, uh, I taught him how to play poker and blackjack, which I feel like is a nice, like right of passage. Um, I told him these are games you can play for the rest of your life. Sonny, you're looking at me odd. Like I shouldn't be teaching, teaching him to eight.
JVL00:18:06The problem I taught flash camping in Yellowstone.
Sonny00:18:09Yeah. I mean, it's fine. It's fine. The only problem with teaching them, uh, at that age is they won't understand the mechanics of the game. So if you put them in a situation where they're forced to play it for money at age eight, they're going to really screw you. Right.
Mike00:18:22No, that's a good point. That's a good one. So, okay, well tell me this, tell me if you think that I taught him the right way or, or critique maybe my, my, my, the way I taught him the method here. So what I did was I said, okay, the most important thing to know is that it's all about the order, the order of hands. And so I just went step by step, uh, sort of iterated through, okay, first there's high card. Then there's pair to pair, uh, three of a kind, uh, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
Sonny00:18:59No, keep going, do it, do it in front of us, make sure you get it right.
Mike00:19:03Yeah, I can do it. So what do I do? What do I leave off three of a kind, uh, straight flush, uh, full house, four of a kind straight flush and Royal flush.
Sonny00:19:14Royal flush is just a fancy straight flush.
Mike00:19:16Well, I know, but I had, you know, you, you add that little, you know, a grace note on there and he was like the whole time he was going, what if I get a Royal flush this time?
JVL00:19:25I'm like, well, I've never gotten a Royal flush. So I think I've, I've got a Jack and King of diamonds. I think I should throw the other three cards away. Cause I could get a Royal flush,
Mike00:19:34right? Dad. There's not even that level of sophistication yet. Like he's just, he's just looking at it. So, okay. But so I started there.
Sonny00:19:41What actual game are you playing?
Mike00:19:42So, so I started off with five card draw, just, just like a simple, so we played a few hands of five card draw. And then I said, I can show you another game. It's called Texas Hold'em. It's very popular when I was a kid or, you know, as a teenager when it got really popular and and it's a different way of playing. And I think he liked five card draw better, which like that was the game I learned when I was a kid and but he was kind of intrigued by it, but he, but like the, the idea of, so he ended up getting a flush, I think in five card draw and he was like over the moon about it. He was just like, couldn't stop talking about the rest of the weekend. It was like, remember that flush I got? That was awesome. And I was like, yeah, it was awesome. You did a great job getting that. It was, it was on a draw. I think he put three cards down and picked them up and like all of a sudden he had a flush. Skill game. It's a game of skill. Exactly. Exactly. So the, the other observation I had was that he did not care for blackjack. And I tried to show, so what I ended up doing is I was like, okay, the dealer does have the advantage here, but like, let's play a few games and I'll show you where you, you know, try to get a little strategic with him. And like, you know, he was hitting on 15 and I was like, don't hit on 15. Depends on what, what's the dealer showing. Well, I know. Okay. But, but with, with the hands I was showing, you know, it was like, don't, you don't want to hit on 15 because, you know, I was like, well, I have to hit all the way up to 17. Uh, and you know, I was going through and he sort of started to understand, oh, wait a second. Like there's a bunch of cards that will put me, you know, we'll bust me if I, you know, so he sort of got it, but it was like, it was too, I thought it was like too quick for, uh, for an eight-year-old, you know, like it was sort of like either I win or I lose. And then like he lost and it was like, well, that wasn't fun. And I'm like, no, no, you gotta keep playing, you know, and if you get really hot, you know, and you got a good deal, you know, all that, you know, he didn't quite understand that.
Sonny00:21:42Question. Were you, were you playing for money? Did you guys have?
Mike00:21:47This was, this was probably exhibition.
Sonny00:21:49Like a hundred quarters? Or something that you, you split between the two of you and then.
JVL00:21:53No, no, this was, that's how I taught flash. I brought a ton of change with us.
Sonny00:21:57Yeah. Well, of course he doesn't, of course he doesn't like blackjack. Cause this is no, there's nothing, there's no stakes.
Mike00:22:04It's like, well, I just, I just, I wanted to, I wanted to introduce him to the concept of it, you know, and like, and like get him like understand and think strategically about before I, and you know, before I fully corrupted him and got him like, you know,
JVL00:22:20you want to, you want to blow his mind, play next time you play a five card draw, introduce aces and deuces wild, because then you get to win, win with five of a kind and four of a kind all the time. Right. And it's so much more satisfying as a, as an eight-year-old than winning with, oh, I got a pair of fives and a high card.
Sonny00:22:43Yeah. That's a good, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. I'm surprised. Yeah. You weren't playing with, with wilds. Like I, like there's no reason, there's no point in playing five card draw with a kid. If you're not gonna have like jacks wild or whatever.
Mike00:22:54No, that's a good point. Well, you know, we ended up playing, um, a game called sequence. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the game sequence. It's a, uh, it's a board game, but it is, um, it, it, it has, it, it also comes with cards like playing cards, but a larger stack than normal. And it's, it's complicated. Maybe some of our listeners will like actually know what this game is, but, uh, there is a feature of it where the jacks are wild um, and the jacks, the two eye jacks are wild and the one eye jacks are actually anti wild. And you could sort of like, you could sort of like hurt your opponent with a one eye jack anyway. So like he got it, he got a little, there was a lot of games and he, it was sort of a cursory look at some interesting games anyway. Um, but we had a good time doing that at the cabin hiking during the day, playing games at night, just being guys, uh, anyway, so it was, it was nice. And then I came home because we're taping this on Tuesday. I came home and immediately turned around and went and ran a T-ball practice because our head coach for T-ball is off for spring break this week. So I had to corral eight, you know, four and five-year-olds, uh, around, uh, around a field for, for an hour. So, um, it's exhausting anyway.
JVL00:24:06Father of the year. Did you play any other sort of games with him? For instance, some RPGs? No, I didn't, but thank you for that perfect transition JVL.
Mike00:24:20Uh, we are talking this week about, uh, Dungeons and Dragons honor among thieves, but let's first talk about the domestic box office, uh, Dungeons and Dragons honor among thieves. Number one, this past weekend in the domestic box office, $37 million, uh, pushing down John Wick chapter four, which we talked about last week, uh, which is, uh, what, uh, that was $28,000 million. Uh, number two, number three, his only son. I don't know that that I don't know what movie that is. Um, uh, I have no idea what it's about. It's an Easter movie. Oh, oh, it's the Jesus movie. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. Um, not bad. Three.
Sonny00:25:03There's another, there's another Jesus movie. That's been in the top 10 for like,
Mike00:25:06uh, five weeks now though. Oh, yeah. Jesus revolution, right?
Sonny00:25:10The Jesus revolution. Yeah.
Mike00:25:12That's like a biopic, right? That's like about, about like a, uh, like a preacher who like meets, uh, Jesus freak or something like that. I couldn't tell you, but I read an article about it. Um, all right. Number four screen six and number five Creed three, but again, topping the charts, dungeons and dragons honor among thieves. Uh, guys, let's talk about the box office before we get into the movie itself. What's going on here. I mean, this is, uh, this is a big, big, uh, showing for a movie about, or based on a game that most people have never played before. What's what's going on.
Sonny00:25:47I mean, it's interesting. Uh, it's, it's, it outperformed its tracking slightly. I think it was looking, people were thinking that this was going to be closer to the 25 to 30 million range. Um, so 37, 38 million, pretty good number. Um, this is a very expensive movie. It is, it's a, this movie costs $150 million. So it's going to need some legs. It's going to need some legs to, to leg out here and make, make its, its money back. Um, but word of mouth is probably gonna be pretty good. It's got a solid, a either a or a minus cinema score. I forget which, um, and I know, uh, I, I heard from a bunch of different people that paramount was rilled, just like absolutely thrilled with the test scores on this. They believed in it. Uh, they believed in it a lot. Um, so, you know, uh, I, I 38 million is a solid opening, but it is, it's, it's the sort of movie that's going to have to like play well for several weeks now. And we're actually hitting a stretch of stretch of weekends here where there's a lot of stuff coming out. Super Mario brothers next weekend, we got, uh, you know, Renfield the weekend after that, I think maybe even the same weekend. I don't, I don't remember. I like, so there's, there's an interesting kind of glut of movies, uh, hitting, hitting theaters after a dearth, really. Yeah. After, after a dry spell, after a dry, I mean, this movie should have come out a month ago is the problem. This movie should have come out two weeks before John wick chapter four. Uh, and it, it would have, it would have done just as well, maybe better and would have had less competition and who, but I mean, yeah, I mean, Super Mario brothers coming out next week, that's movies going to make, uh, $125 million at the domestic box office. So, um, there are some questions, some question as to how, how this will, this will do. What do we,
Mike00:27:38what are we supposed to make of the, it's like a 60% drop for, for John wick chapter four. Is that surprising? Is that about what we expect? It's, it's a little, it's a, it's steeper than
Sonny00:27:48previous entries in the series. It's steeper than previous entries in the series. Uh, it is not out of the question. It's not, it's not unreasonable with considering how high it opened. And, um, this is the fourth entry. I mean, the other problem is again, this is a three hour movie, which I think is going to, it may not have hurt opening weekend box office that much, but I do think it's going to, I do think it's going to put a dent into repeat viewings. Like going to see a two hour movie is, uh, once is, is easy and going to see it a second time. It's like, oh, okay. But like when you're, when you're talking about a three hour movie, you know, three and a half hours with previews and all that, uh, most theaters, that's a, that's a big chunk of time. So we'll see. We'll see JVL any box office thoughts or
JVL00:28:35I, you know, so paramount has believed in dungeons and dragons clearly for like eight months. Um, and the movie has the goods and audiences loved it. And I am shocked that it opened under 40 million. Uh, and I think that is a sign of just something bad and depressing. No, but I don't think this should, this movie should, should open better than that.
Sonny00:29:03I don't see it. This is, I, I, I strongly disagree with you here, JBL, because here's, here's the problem, right? You have a, you have a mo first of all, it, it outperformed tracking. It was tracking at 25 million, right? So like, what is, what is, what is a $38 million opening measure really against, uh, against what it was tracking. It, it measures that a, uh, walk-up traffic was better than people thought it was gonna be. Um, B word of mouth is pretty solid. The drop between Friday and Saturday wasn't that bad. Um, it, so it, it, it act, it, it outperformed expectations. Uh, and I, the other thing you have to remember is that Dungeons and Dragons is a cursed property in terms of like live action, movie storytelling, right? I mean, there's, there's a, there was a terrible animated series in the 1980s. There was a terrible movie. Terrible. That animated series was amazing.
JVL00:29:59I never watched every Saturday morning. I was fired up for that. I don't know anything about it,
Sonny00:30:03but the, but the, the movie, the movie starring Justin Whalen and Jeremy Irons is bad in 2000. Like they, there, there's no reason for this, for anyone to have expected in the, in the general if you came to me with the, and with the first trailer was not very good. I did not think the one, uh, the one that played for like three months in front of everything. I did not love it. I did not think it was that good. Um, the second trailer was better, but the, but like I, if, if I was just an average moviegoer, I would have been like kind of curious about the 90% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. And I would have been waiting to see what my friends said, frankly. So I like, I don't think, I don't think opening under 40 million is a, is an under, it's not like the movie has show up for it. The movie doesn't, the movie doesn't have any big stars who open movies, right? Like Chris Pine doesn't open movies. Uh, Star Trek that doesn't really
JVL00:31:03have it's IP with brand awareness. Everybody knows what dungeon dragons is, but the loyalty base of it, of that IP, the, the percentage of people who would show up for the IP, I think is
Sonny00:31:17very small, but JBL, I mean, that's right. Well, so this, I, I made this point of my review. Actually, I think I made the point of my review that I made was that like lots and lots of people know what dungeons this, this movie smells like a desperate play by a studio to create a franchise
JVL00:31:33thing. Like if I, again, it's good. It's like Jumanji. It's like the last Jumanji movie, right? But it turns out it was good again, but, but, but hold on. But I want to know,
Mike00:31:44cause you said JBL, you were, it was depressing or it was, it was disconcerting to you that it didn't open over 40 million. What do you, I mean, what do you mean by
JVL00:31:52that? Uh, I mean that, you know, when you get a movie like this, that turns out to actually be carefully made and well-made that does interesting things tonally that are kind of original and actually does create a new franchise, cuz this is, it's gonna succeed as a franchise or it should succeed as a franchise. Uh, I, I would hope that audiences would show up for it.
Sonny00:32:14That's all I meant. Okay. Well, I, this is, this is why I was saying like, we're gonna have to wait and see what the legs are here, because this is a word. This is a movie that is going to live or die on word of mouth and getting people to show up for, for that second, third, fourth weekend. Uh, because it's, you know, look again, I, there, there is every reason in the world not to go see this. If you, if you are a casual movie going person, like I, I, I could make, I could make six better arguments for not going to see this. Um, then going to see it. If again, I am like trying to figure out what I'm doing on the weekend. Uh, but it's good. It's good. And I think the word of mouth is good on it. And I, uh, as, as long as it doesn't get totally crushed by super Mario brothers, uh, in, in three days here. Um, I, I think it'll be,
JVL00:33:02I think it'll be okay. So, well, the question is how much of this audience was a kid's audience and how much was, was 20 year olds. Yeah. Cause if it was, if, if there was a substantial number of kids showing up to this, you know, the 13 and 12 and 10 and 11 year olds, then it will
Sonny00:33:17get crushed by Mario. Well, I didn't, I, I don't, I didn't, I didn't see what the actual number of people in attendance was, but I do know that it played very well with audiences under the age of 12. It was like 90% recommend, uh, with audiences, 12 and under. So like, again, it's, it's got, it's got the word of mouth. Uh, we'll see, we'll see how it does if it legs out, if it does a three and a half or four times multiple that gets it to around 140, 150 million domestic, which I think
Mike00:33:45would be enough to, to green light number two. Well, let's talk about the movie itself. Sonny, how about a big boy review of dungeons and dragons honor among thieves?
Sonny00:33:58So it's, it's an interesting movie and I don't, I don't know. I I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna run through the plot here because I don't think the plot matters all that much. I mean, I it's, it's kind of interestingly structured in so far is this is what I kind of imagine a D and D game to be like, uh, in so far as you have, uh, a bunch of backstory, like characters talking about where they came from and how, why they're in a certain place and what they have to do going forward and how they're going to do it. Um, uh, and it just, it just goes from there. What, what is, what's really interesting to me about this movie is that it, it understands, I think the inherent silliness of the property and under understands that this is ridiculous thing, um, that people enjoy. Uh, and, and it manages to be both aware of that and not dismissive of it. Um, it leans into the goofiness in a very appealing way. Um, just the, the, the weird, funny things that happen in it feel very natural and part of that world without being sneering about it. You know, do you understand what I'm saying? That like it, it, it, it under it, it likes the silliness. It doesn't, it doesn't distance itself from the silliness. It embraces the silliness, which I think is good. I mean, look, Chris Pine is, is fantastic as the Bard here. He's, uh, I don't, I, I, somebody will have to correct me if I'm getting the, um, the, the character types wrong, but, uh, you know, he's a, he's a, uh, minstrel.
JVL00:35:37Oh, I'm watching you on this. He's a minstrel.
Sonny00:35:39I'm gonna watch you like a hawk. He's a, he's a minstrel who, you know, uh, can inspire people with his plans and give them- The Bard was the first hybrid class.
JVL00:35:47All right. Uh, he is- JVL's eye is twitching here at the mistakes. He had to do a level two ranger and also be a one level of mage. And then you also had to, the druid needed two levels of druid to achieve level one Bard status, but then Bard's got an extra spell per, okay, I'll stop. This is still a big boy review, right? I mean, we, are we-
Sonny00:36:20I don't, I, I mean, I, I don't know. I, I, there's-
JVL00:36:25Do the character classes, Sonny. Tell us what they all are.
Sonny00:36:28I'm not even gonna, I'm not even gonna bother. Cause I'm not- What is Michelle Rodriguez? She's a warrior? Yes. A barbarian?
JVL00:36:35She's a warrior. Okay. Uh, and then there's a-
Sonny00:36:39Is there a paladin? Well, the paladin comes later. Yeah, he comes later. The paladin comes later.
Mike00:36:44Okay. Okay.
Sonny00:36:45Um, but they have to, they have to get together with their, uh, sorcerer. Who's an idiot. Um, and they team up with an elf? Druid.
JVL00:36:55A druid? She's a halfling, a half elf druid. Okay. She's a elf druid. I thought the halflings were like- Half elf, all hot. Sophia Lillis.
Sonny00:37:06Yeah. She's, uh, she's, uh, they, they got to team up with her to get a helmet, to get a fancy helmet from the paladin who, uh, wants to defeat the red wizards.
JVL00:37:22Yeah, obviously. Who want to kill everyone.
Sonny00:37:25Okay, so- Bring death to the realm.
Mike00:37:28So I have a lot of questions, but I, I do want to talk to something you just said, Sonny, about the way that it, it takes the silliness seriously of, of Dungeons and Dragons. You know, the, the, the movie sort of knows it's silly, but revels in it rather than pushes it away, which seems like very much a hallmark of, of nerd culture. Like, right. Like, like, or sort of like old nerd culture where it's like, you get a group of nerds together and I've been there. We we've all been there. Like there's a, there's a kind of knowingness about like, yeah, we know we're nerds or we know that this obsession of ours is a little silly, but we love it anyway. And there is that spirit really comes through in the movie,
Sonny00:38:17right? The, the, the signature set piece in this, in this regard is, uh, the moment in the graveyard, right? So they, they go to a graveyard, they have to, they have to figure out where this magical helmet is. And in order to, uh, to, to find it, they go to where the battle took place, where they were trying to defend the helmet from what it doesn't matter. But the point is they have to they keep resurrecting warriors from this battle who died in the battle. And they each get five questions and they, they, they kind of track it from there. Uh, but the, the, the thing is done with just this wonderful comic timing. Um, uh, in terms of like digging up the corpses, we find out how the, the hilarious way they died and we go on to the next one. And then we find out, you know, the hilarious way they died in each way, we get a little bit closer to the helmet. And then we go on from there again. It's like, it's, it's silly and it's, it's absurd, but it's so well done. It's so well written. Um, it's so funny and it's in Chris Pine really is just incredibly good. Uh, has, has incredibly good comic timing here. Um, I dunno, man, I, the, the, I, I, I like this movie a lot. I like, I like, I like everything about it. I like the, I like the actual design of the sets. I like the design of characters. I mean, they're the, one of the directors has been on Twitter for the past week, just posting videos of like the screen tests and stuff. And like, you'd be shocked by how much of it was practical. Like for instance, the, um, the moment where they, uh, they are in the tower and they're trying to get, uh, the con man played by Hugh Grant to give them the daughter and they step into a sand pit. And like, it's the sort of thing where I just kind of assumed that was CGI. That was, but no, it's, that was done practically. That was, they had like little air cannons underneath the sand and it created a little sand, uh, quick sand effect. And that worked out or, or the, uh, the design of the, um, the bird man, Jonathan, uh, is, is, I mean, there's, there's definitely some CGI flourishes within that, that character, but it's, it was built as a practical effect. It was very, it's very well done and very funny. Um, I don't know. I, I just thought it was, I thought it was real good. And I, uh, I liked it. I liked it a lot. JVL Michael, I, I w what did I think? Okay. So
Mike00:40:39I agree with everything. I agree. No, I did love it. I did love it. I loved it. And I agree with everything Sonny just said about, um, the way that the movie just feels well-made everything from the writing, the acting, the set design. Um, and I was, I was taken in, into this world that felt very lived it, which I was not expecting. I think, I think I had such low expectations. Um, that they were exceeded, but I also can, can, can recognize that it's also a very well-made movie, but like my expectations for a movie like this are that you can almost see the, the edges of the world they've built because it's like, they just threw up whatever CGI background or, or, uh, you know, explained away. So I, and, and that this movie does not do any of that. I think it is visible on the screen. And I just love this idea of, or I, I love the, the, the whole sense of this lived in world, uh, was just, just came through my questions though, are related to that, which is like, what is the world of Dungeons and Dragons? Because like it's all established here. There's like, what is this place called? Uh, never winter is like the city, but then there's this other place where the bad people are, but they're not all bad because the Paladin comes from that world. Like I was very confused about the sort of geography and cosmography, like, like everything that like about this world feels lived in, but I don't understand it at all. And so like, I enjoyed it on, on the sort of initial level, but then my mind starts really like, well, okay, well, what is this actually? Or is this like, is this, is this like from the game or is it not from the game? They just kind of like, like use the, the names of the, of the character types. And like, like I have no, I, I have no sense of like what this is actually based on. So JVL, that's why I come to you.
JVL00:42:50Well, if you get the monster manual one, the third edition though, not the fourth edition, then you have to go and get the, your dungeon masters. Don't forget arcane Arcana and the Oriental one, one of them was called Oriental adventures. I don't think you can say that. Can't have that one. Yeah, it was, it was the D and D attempt to incorporate like samurai and ninjaden into it was very cool, but it should not be called Oriental adventures. So listen, here's, here's the thing. Almost everything that's in this film is from the source material. Okay. Right. So for instance, when you're in the maze when they, they are sent to the arena and they are in the maze, they are being pursued by this creature that looks like a giant black Panther, but it has like weird plant arms sticking out of its back. That's, that's a displacer beast. This is a, you know, it's literally in monster manual too. Okay. The, the, the, the, there is a thing that they the, this is weird acid jello that they, that becomes a plot device in the maze, right? That's this whole thing is you guys setting me up fine. That is called the gelatinous cube. And the gelatinous cube is a thing that's in dungeons draw all of the, everything it's in there. Okay.
Sonny00:44:26Is like from, and somebody, even the red wizards,
JVL00:44:31I'm sure there is a module somewhere with the red wizards. Yes. Uh, and, and the hither thither staff a hundred percent. Um, what about the hot air balloon with Hugh Grant's face on it?
Mike00:44:44I believe that was not okay. All right. Okay. We found something, but what about the,
Sonny00:44:50what about the, the midget lover? Uh, Michelle Rodriguez played by Bradley Cooper.
Mike00:44:57Okay. So, so that was Bradley Cooper, right? Cause like I kept, I kept looking at it. It was like, is that Bradley Cooper? That must be Bradley Cooper, but it can't be Bradley Cooper. It's Bradley Cooper. So here's, here is that sequence.
Sonny00:45:09Didn't I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That sequence didn't work for me because it's clearly like they thought it was very funny. And it was not that funny. It was not, it was, it was seemingly funny. No, it was. Oh, I did not. I agree with you. So this is why I,
JVL00:45:24this is why the movie succeeds, right? It, the world building is very nice and the world building is all done because they, they mind the source material. They mind Dungeons and Dragons, which has a very rich, yeah, you just pick this creature and that spell and like, Hey, look, it all makes sense. Um, but the movie, to the extent it succeeds, it succeeds entirely on tone and that the tone of this thing is always perfectly right. Yeah. It's funny when it needs to be funny. It's ironic when it needs to be ironic. It is ridiculous when it needs to be ridiculous. And then it's kind of exciting when it needs to be exciting. Right. And it, it plays every beat exactly right. We are given just enough emotional core to care basically about the characters, but mostly the reason we care about them is because we're enjoying spending time with them. We just like spending time with, because honestly, Chris Pine is, as I've been saying for years and years, well, you guys were on your Chris Pratt kick. Uh, Chris Pine is the closest thing we have to a modern day Harrison Ford. Yeah. Except he's funnier and he can sing, but otherwise he's, you know, he's a real deal movie star who we're gonna be watching in movies for 40 years. That's how good he is. Um, and, uh, you put together this, this perfect tone where it's just fun to be there and it's enjoyable and all the beats are right with then the world building and the outstanding performances across the board, cuz the actors are all quite good. Uh, and they work together in comedy and it's, it's a lot of fun. It's really a lot of fun. I had so much fun. I had so much fun watching it, right? I mean, this is when's the last time you didn't had this much fun at the movies. It's been a while. Well, I had a lot of fun watching John Wick chapter four. I mean like it, it, it feel, I mean, I really love John Wick, but it different from a totally, but, but fun movie,
Mike00:47:22but both of these movies are sort of like, like the, I wonder if some of the appeal or the sort of subconscious appeal of these is like, they're not supposed to be fun. Right? Like there, there are, they're not supposed to, they're, they're sort of underdog movies. And like the Marvel movies are the ones that are supposed to be fun. They're supposed to be like,
JVL00:47:41this is 10 times more fun than any way more fun. It's the first way more fun.
Sonny00:47:45Well, this is, well, I mean, this is, this is the thing, right? Is that this movie has like kind of perfectly captured that early MCU tone, that mix of action and comedy with, uh, like genuine, genuinely charismatic person at the center of it. Um, Chris Pine, instead of Robert Downey Jr. And it, it just works. It just works. The, the whole thing just works.
JVL00:48:07So can I, can I briefly, I want to defend the, the scene between Michelle Rodriguez and.
Mike00:48:14Yeah, let's hear it.
JVL00:48:15So it's okay. So the, the setup for people who haven't seen it yet is Michelle Rodriguez's character. We, we find out is really down when we meet her because she has been divorced by, by her husband. And it's everything about this feels strange because she's so gruff and she's emotionally aloof. And why would you care? And when we finally meet her husband, her husband is basically a hobbit and the hobbit is played by Bradley Cooper and we get big, tough warrior, Michelle Rodriguez sitting, having an awkward cup of coffee with little midget Bradley Cooper. And what starts out as a site gag becomes basically a relationship gag. And it's, I just couldn't stop laughing at the absurdist humor. I mean, it felt like between two ferns almost and, uh, or a Judd Apatow level, like humor of awkwardness as these two were talking. And, uh, I just loved it.
Sonny00:49:20That's clearly what they were going for. It just didn't, it didn't work for me. I like, I just, it didn't, it's like the, it's like the one bit in this movie that just did not land at all for me. And I like Bradley Cooper a lot. I like Michelle Rodriguez a lot. I like, I, I think I almost think that they made a big mistake by casting him in that part. Cause like it's, it's,
Mike00:49:42you're supposed to be surprised by it and be like, Oh, can I, can I, can I make a note for paramount here on this? Like what I would have done with this? Cause I spent the first half of the scene in my head trying to go, is that Bradley Cooper? And like, it was a little hard to recognize if it had been to take just another, uh, member of the, uh, hangover franchise. If it had been Zach Galifianakis, for instance, playing that part with like the beard, somebody like clearly recognizable, who's like, sort of like, like well known to be funny, but also sort of a, a gag for these people who clearly love comedy. And he's sort of a, uh, a, a, a comedy person. Like it would have worked for me better because that site gag would have
Sonny00:50:29worked better. At the beginning, that, that part, that part is a Channing Tatum part.
JVL00:50:34Oh, there you go. That's even better. That would have been a great channel. That part
Sonny00:50:38should have been chant. That part is Channing Tatum in bullet train or whatever. Right? Like it's him that, that is, uh, and again, I like Bradley Cooper a lot and he's not even bad here. Just like it. I, I was the same way with Mike. It took me, I've like spent the first like three or four lines. Like, wait, is that. It didn't quite look like a little bit. It didn't quite look like
Mike00:50:59him. There was something w weird with his hair. So, so I, I, I wanna talk about my favorite gag
JVL00:51:04in the entire movie though. Sure. Which is so the, and again, I mean the genius of having this Paladin character, uh, Zank, I think is the character's name and he is written as, uh, he's written as an insufferable do-gooder and, but, but, but it's funny. And as we are introduced to him and we are seeing a, a, a veritable montage of his insufferable do-gooderism. The final thing we see is a crowd of people on a dock and there's a gigantic jaws size, like, uh, horrific alien fish that has been pulled up on the dock. And he strides in slow motion, kneels down next to the fish and touches the fish's head. And there is a tiger woman, like a, a woman who looks like a humanoid white tiger standing nearby, like sobbing uncontrollably. And as, as Zank places his, his hand gently on the fish's forehead, the fish, it opens its mouth and he reaches inside and pulls out a little tiger person baby and hands it to, and the whole thing is so perfectly again, perfectly absurd. And his, and I just, I loved, I love everything. I love everything about this whole fucking movie.
Mike00:52:33It's so good. Yeah. There I'm sorry. Can we, uh, all right. Can we talk briefly real quick about, uh, Hugh Grant here or, or is that, yeah. Yeah. I mean, this was, he, he, he's so, I mean, between this and the, uh, the, the Oscar ceremony or the red carpet, they like, it just feels like a moment for Hugh Grant, you know? Well, Hugh Grant was also in, he's also
Sonny00:52:57maybe the best part of operation fortune, ruse to Gare, which I don't think we actually, we didn't do, uh, never even heard of it. So there's the new one. Have you seen it? Well, no. So there's another, there's another guy Ritchie movie coming out in like, uh, a month, uh, starring Jake Gyllenhaal. Um, that looks like a pretty straightforward action type movie. Um, but no, this, so operation fortune, ruse to Gare stars, Jason Statham and Hugh Grant. And it's, uh, like kind of a James Bondy spy, uh, thriller knockoff mockery, whatever. Uh, but, um, but he's very good at that. He plays the villain in that. And of course he was very good in the gentleman.
JVL00:53:37I see. He's low key. The best part of the gentleman.
Sonny00:53:39Like I think, I think Guy Ritchie has unlocked something in Hugh Grant that like has allowed him to kind of go off, off the leash a little bit. Uh, and you, you get, you get glimpses of that here. Um, more, it's much more, much more prevalent in operation fortune, which I think I'm sure is on the OD now. Already theaters for like two weeks.
Mike00:53:58Uh, and he was also in glass onion, you know, he had a huge part in glass onion, right?
JVL00:54:03That was the, I think this all starts with Paddington too. I think the, the Huna songs begins with his role in Paddington too, which is, which is as John will, will tell you Sonny and he's right. Uh, is Grant's best performance of his career. And, uh, he's only gotten, he's only gone from triumph to triumph since then.
Mike00:54:25No Paddington too, right? This is the they're both dumb. Uh, all right. Well, any other
JVL00:54:34thoughts on this movie? I mean, I, I, I can't, I can't wait for our bonus episode. We're gonna talk you to normies through what D and D is really about. Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna,
Sonny00:54:42you're gonna set us up. You're gonna set us up. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, uh, all
Mike00:54:46right. Well, if, uh, no other, oh, one other question. Who is the guy, the guy who plays the bad sorcerer? Who is he? I've never seen him before, but he's. terrific i mean he has so much uh uh you know sort of on-screen charisma no no what's it what's
Sonny00:55:01the actor's name uh no idea i don't even know what role you're talking about the the sorcerer
Mike00:55:06troop the lousy sorcerer yeah the lousy sorcerer the guy who like is oh the lousy yeah the bad one
Sonny00:55:12uh no i don't know well when you say bad one i i thought you were talking about like a right
Mike00:55:17oh she's a girl no no no no she's a girl no no yeah just like that's not a man no no no no no that's not a man baby all right all right so no other thoughts okay well that is uh all we're gonna uh give to this episode of the sub beacon you can check us out at subbeacon.com uh you can subscribe listen to us there get the bonus episode if you subscribe uh comment uh check us out and uh we will see you next time
Sonny00:55:45i'll take
Mike00:55:53uh let's see
JVL00:55:55trying to think of anything else uh you know what i can i say something about michelle rodriguez so i feel like i've been watching her on screen since she was like 15 years old in girl fight okay yeah do you remember this you remember her debut in girl fight and uh and i had always thought she was basically like you know an okay screen presence i think now that she's like a middle-aged woman she's a really interesting screen presence
Sonny00:56:30i think i really like her on screen now she was younger she she has aged into uh the kind of i don't i don't know a disaffectedness of some of these roles like the the kind of like the the one of again there's like kind of a running gag in this where she's just eating potatoes all the time yeah just like sitting there eating potatoes and like uh i buy i i like i don't know that i would have necessarily bought that you know at the beginning of the fast and the furious franchise but now i like she looks like somebody who just sits back and eats potatoes and then you know does whatever
JVL00:57:09needs to be done i buy that yeah she's i i really i i like this age michelle rodriguez i think she's
Mike00:57:17a lot of fun to watch on screen there's a lot of confidence too i mean there's just you just like i i don't know but no i agree i agree i agree um and uh and if only she was in the blackening
Sonny00:57:32what would she might be but we'll never know i don't i don't know we'll never know
JVL00:57:38i'm sure it would be fine
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