Mike00:00:00Welcome to the Sub-Beacon Bonus episode. We just talked about John Wick Chapter 4, so we figured time for a draft. Let's do an action movie franchise draft. What do we think, guys? There's so many great franchises, so many franchises that start off great and then don't end great. So many to choose from. We're going to do a three round snake style draft, right, Sonny? And let's just go ahead and get started. And any thoughts before we get started? No.
JVL00:00:43All right. I mean, I had a lot of questions about this, but I figured we should wait and hash them out as we do it, because there is a thin line between what is a action franchise? What is a science fiction franchise? What is a fantasy franchise? What is a fantasy franchise? What is a fantasy franchise? Or a comic book? There are a lot of gray areas here, and I figured that we'll work that out as we.
Mike00:01:05Yeah, let's work it out. Let's work it out as we go, because I think there's I agree with you and there's lots of sort of bright lines and gray lines. And anyway. All right. Well, listen, the that we're going to start, I did randomized our names here. So the order of selection for the first round will be me, then JVL, then Sonny, and then we'll snake around. So then Sonny, JVL.
Sonny00:01:27Oh, ran. Yeah, it was randomized. It was totally randomized. Trust me, guys. I have number one pick. I see how it is.
Mike00:01:33Well, that's OK. So, you know, it's randomized because now I'm still not even sure what my first pick should be. So I'm making this decision now live as we do it. But I think I think I'm going to have to go with tried and true despite the ups and downs of the whole the whole franchise. I got to go with James Bond for my first pick for action franchise. So that's. That's what I'm going with. Yes, there are some stinkers, but the longevity, you know, it's a real legacy franchise. You know, you can't go wrong, Sonny.
JVL00:02:08What do you think about that?
Sonny00:02:10I think it's a garbage pick. He went with James Bond. Is that right?
JVL00:02:15That's right. The number one overall. You could have anything you want. The world is your oyster. And you went with Roger Moore.
Sonny00:02:21Yeah, I don't care for James Bond just in general. So no take backs that I'm not taking.
Mike00:02:27I'm not taking it back. I'm staying up behind it. I'm staying up behind it. I, you know, I mean, here's the thing, because James Bond is also eminently rewatchable and that seems to be a, like even the bad ones are great to find on TV. A few years ago, my brother and my dad and I went on a fishing trip together and they had like a couple of VHSs in the little bungalow that we had rented. And one of them was the man with the golden gun and I rewatch it and it was so terrible. So much fun. And uh, I mean, that's, that's what you want to in an action franchise, right? Is rewatchability. You don't want to say something that you have to throw away.
JVL00:03:05They were able to get away with the Octo pussy.
Sonny00:03:09So yeah, I don't, I don't care for Jay. I don't care for James Bond, frankly. I don't, I like, I just don't, I don't like, I don't like James Bond movies. I don't never, never, never, never appealed to me.
JVL00:03:20Don't care for it with the number two pick. I select the mission impossible franchise because it, uh, it only has one. One bad entry and it has gotten better. The first of all, the first one is an absolute underrated masterpiece. Uh, the middle, the, the, the third is actually kind of interesting in that. It's much more of a almost dystopian horror movie done by JJ Abrams. But then we bring in Brad bird for the fourth, which is funny. It's like the fourth one's really, really funny. It's the, the, the. The premise of the fourth one is what if you had this elite team, but only the, the lead guy was elite and the others were all fuck ups and everything went wrong all the time. And it's hysterical. Uh, and then we transition into the Chris McQuarr years and they're just these beautifully written and fabulously executed stories. And it is, I believe set the standard for adult action movies in our time.
Sonny00:04:27I think. I think that's, this is a much better pick frankly, than James Bond, which was a trash pick, um, for, uh, uh, you know, uh, a rookie on this, on this draft, um, drafting stage. Number three reaches, he reaches the, he doesn't, he doesn't take mission impossible. Great pick. I I'm a, I'm a huge fan of these movies. As you say, there is one bad one and that's the only, if you, if you, you still got, you still got, you know, three arguably great ones, two pretty good ones and one bad one. That's that's not a bad ratio, but I'm going to go with perfection. I'm going to go with perfection for my number one pick John wick, John wick, number one franchise.
JVL00:05:03There you go. I had that as my, as my number three pick on the board.
Sonny00:05:08I can, I can take, I can take, I can watch all of these movies in order. I could watch any individual piece of them. Uh, I have probably watched more hours of John wick than any other franchise over the last 10 years. Uh, I find these movies infinitely rewatchable, um, incredibly entertaining. I, I just Marvel at the actual. Just like watching each individual scene and watching the, the choreography of each, uh, portion. And I love, I love Keanu Reeves. I mean, I just think he is, he is amazing. Um, as the, uh, as the titular John wick. And again, as I, as I mentioned on the main episode, I find these movies to be, um, much deeper philosophically than most, uh, give them credit for. I think it's a, I think it's a really interesting, uh, just a really, really interesting series. I love that.
JVL00:05:56All right.
Sonny00:05:57And then you get four, I get the number four pick as well. And this one's a little bit tougher. I, there are, there are three or four different ways I could go here. Um, but I'm gonna go with another four movie franchise that is almost perfect. It's not quite perfect. It's almost perfect.
JVL00:06:13You're gonna say lethal weapon.
Sonny00:06:14Aren't you? No mad max. Oh, the mad I'm going with mad max here. So mad max, uh, is, is a really interesting series in that, um, it may end up being, well, I, I, I, I, the, the third one not withstanding, uh, uh, beyond thunder dome, which has its own pleasures. Um, the other four movies in the series are all, uh, just about perfect. And mad max Fury road is considered by many to be the greatest action movie of the last decade. It is, it is, uh, just a masterpiece of practical physical effects. Uh, great stunt work, great car work. Um, uh, people, people will have raved about this nominated for best picture for good reason. Uh, great movie. Um, mad max, the series.
JVL00:07:03I like that Peck a lot, uh, with number five, I'm gonna do something that I think may be a little controversial here. Ooh, here we go. I'm gonna take die hard. Ooh. And I take die hard, fully acknowledging that the only movie in here that's worth a damn is the first one.
Sonny00:07:23That's not true at all. That's not, that's absolutely not true. No, no. Two is fine. Two is fine. But three is actually, I would, I have argued in the past that three is almost as good as one three is a, is a great action movie, um, uh, with, uh, with a great villain. I mean, there's a reason that one in three are the two best is because they, they both have like villains who have perfect voices, literally perfect voices. Like if there, there was a study, it was like Alan Rickman and Jeremy Irons have like the platonic ideal of the human voice. It is pleasing on a, on a almost preternatural level.
JVL00:07:57So here, here's my rationale for die hard, uh, die hard in vents, an entire genre. We, we, in many ways, we still live in a world where movies are conceived of as it's die hard in a whatever. And it's, it was so monumentally influential, but also because it was so good. I mean, this is John McTiernan, the absolute height of his powers. Taking a ludicrous concept, we're gonna take this, this comedic actor from a TV show and turn him into a giant action movie star, even though he's kind of scrawny and nobody knows who he is. And we're gonna pro we've got this unknown British actor who's never done anything for stage work. He didn't even start acting until his mid thirties. And uh, we, and you know what, it, it'll all be set in a single building, but it'll be great. Don't worry. It'll be great. So I, there, I take die hard with number five.
Sonny00:09:01My only issue with this pick, my only issue with this pick is that you have two, I, I would say again, two great ones, first and third die hard, die hard with a vengeance. Second one's okay. I don't love it, but I know, I know it has fans, I it's fine, but then it has two pretty bad entries, awful, awful ones, live free and die hard, live free or die hard or a good day to die hard.
JVL00:09:22Again, I'm, I'm just taking it for the first one because I, I think the first is such an important movie. It is. I'm willing to take it with, with even knowing that, that for all, even knowing all that
Mike00:09:33is which, which one is the, hold on, which one is the one with Justin long where they're like, uh, was that a good day to die hard? I can't remember.
Sonny00:09:41Um, they were, I think that one's live free or live for your dice.
Mike00:09:44Yeah.
Sonny00:09:45That's yeah.
Mike00:09:46That's awful. Is that the one awful? Uh, okay. So with, uh, pick number six, uh, I'm gonna try to redeem myself in your eyes, Sonny. Uh, and I'm gonna go with. I'm gonna go with a classic and one that, um, I tried to ignore that there was a fourth movie, uh, in it. Beverly Hills cop. No. No. Indiana Jones. Oh, did I take yours? Did I take yours? No. Uh, Indiana Jones. Yes. Uh, you don't like Indy. Oh my God. Uh, the, the three, the original three are sort of like, you know, cable classics. Uh, the first one is just. Uh, such a fun adventure and it feels more like what star wars should have been in terms of the melding of kind of old styles, uh, of, of, um, of entertainment and, and that kind of, uh, spirit of, uh, of like the thirties and forties, um, I, uh, maybe is temple of doom getting another sort of like reevaluation because that was always my favorite, even though everyone says it was the, it was the worst one. Um, I, I love the darkness of it. I love how, uh, you know, how sort of, uh, how depressed both Lucas and Spielberg were at the time, clearly to be making this, I just, I think it's great. And then, um, and then, uh, you know, th th the last one was Sean Connery, uh, again, we're not counting number four, uh, in this one, uh, the last one with Sean Connery is terrific and fun and exciting. Um, and, and, and Harrison Ford is, uh, just like in his full movie star prime. Indiana Jones, number six.
Sonny00:11:29It's not a bad pick. The only problem is we'll have to see how it, how it holds up this new one, the dial of destiny. I'm not, I'm not sold on this nor am I, but I, I look, I like this pick because Raiders of the lost ark is a perfect movie, uh, and last crusade is also a perfect movie and just a hair below Raiders. So, I mean, that's two, two really great movies right there. Temple of doom. I like a lot as well. I, I, it, I think Mike is right. There has been a reevaluation. In recent years, but, uh, I, I like it. Um, and frankly, uh, kingdom of the crystal skull gets, uh, gets a bad rap these days. We, it is, it is, it is now very popular to hate that movie and it has bad things in it. Like the, the, the things that are bad are bad, like the CGI ants or termites or whatever those were the CGI swinging through the vines with the monkey CGI Shia LaBeouf, who I assume was not on set at any time. They just were filming reaction shots. I, uh, it's, it's, that's, it's, it's not, it's not great, but the, uh, but two of the other four, uh, two of the four are perfect.
JVL00:12:34So I, I like this pick JVL no thoughts, uh, you know, I, it's not fair, but I hate temple of doom and crystal skulls so much that they've tarnished Raiders for me. What?
Sonny00:12:57It's not fair. Why do you hate?
JVL00:12:59Why do you hate temple of doom? I, I, I saw it once in the theaters and I was a kid and I thought it was one of the worst movies. I just. You should watch it again. Hate. Yeah, no, that's what I should do.
Sonny00:13:08You should see it again.
JVL00:13:09The next time I get two, the next time I get two and a half hours to watch something, I should take a flyer on rewatching something I hated.
Sonny00:13:16Yes.
Mike00:13:17This is why I watch.
JVL00:13:18It's this is why all I ever do is watch dark night rises and layer cake because I get, you know, if I get two hours to watch something by God, it has to be something that I know I'm gonna like. So this is, you know, those are what I watch.
Sonny00:13:30All right. All right.
Mike00:13:32Number Mike, you have the seventh pick as well. Oh, that's right. You do. That's right. Seventh pick. Uh, this is a tough one. Uh, and I'm interested to see if somebody picks my other one, but I am gonna have to go with, uh, the terminator franchise, uh, mostly on the strength of one and two, um, three is awful, but, uh, I just love, I mean, the first two are just. So, uh, ground, you know, groundbreaking of course, but also like, uh, so terrific to watch. Um, I guess you could sort of be a little upset with, uh, uh, with terminator two for sort of ushering in the overuse of CGI, but, um, I mean, it, it, it actually does stand up well, even though it's sort of primitive CGI, uh, and, and terminator two and, and just the whole, you know, birthing of Arnold Schwarzenegger in, in the, in the original terminator as a movie star. Um, you gotta go with the terminator franchise.
JVL00:14:27I think maybe I have to throw a flag.
Sonny00:14:30What are you, are you gonna call a definitional it's a, uh, well, no, here's a question.
JVL00:14:36Is the terminator a science fiction movie series, a franchise, or is it an action franchise? I, I am not, I'm only asking for review from the booth. I am not, I am not making a charge myself. Do I need to make the case or do I need to let, let Sonny?
Sonny00:14:51No, I we're calling up to Mike Pereira now. Mike Pereira says. Mike Pereira says, uh, from his interpretation of the rules, uh, terminator has evolved into a pretty straightforward action franchise. It's always been action heavy. There's been sci-fi undertones to it, but it is, it's definitely an action. I can agree with that. So we're gonna, we're gonna allow it.
JVL00:15:13I can agree with that. I think that's a good pick. I like that. Thank you. Thank you.
Sonny00:15:19I like that. I like the pick too, except I like the pick too, except there are, there are, it, it runs into a bad. Entry problem, which is that like the first two are great. And then it's rapidly diminishing returns after that. I mean, do you even remember, did you even see Genesis? The Genesis? Oh, that's right. I forgot about Genesis. G-E-N-I-S-Y-S. Yeah.
Mike00:15:40Terminator. I saw, I saw rise of the machines and that was enough.
Sonny00:15:45Did you watch terminator dark fate? The one with the girl from, uh, game of Thrones as you do see, you don't even remember that this is an entry in the series. And this is why it's not a great pick because you were, what have I chosen?
Mike00:15:59What have I done?
Sonny00:16:01No. Uh, um, uh, anyway, it's no, I think it's a good pick.
Mike00:16:07It's good. Well, all right.
JVL00:16:09Well, thank you. I appreciate it. All right. JBL you're, you're, you're next with number eight. My final pick. I take lethal weapon. Uh, once again, what we have here is a genre defining series, which makes the buddy cop action comedy into. An absolute staple of the industry for two decades and it go the, the neatest trick of this series is the balance between the comedy and the action is the first one. It's kind of dark. Like, I don't know if you guys remember, but the, the plot point of the first one is that there is a ring of guys who are getting young girls coked up to do porn and then like having them murdered. And so it's not pretty and not nice, but they, they handle the balance well. And then as the, the series goes on, they add a little bit, they titrate just a little bit more comedy into each one. And so that by the end, first of all, there's no ban entry.
Sonny00:17:11All four of them are great.
JVL00:17:12By the end, it, you feel so close to these characters that by the series finale, it's almost like you're at a family reunion, right?
Sonny00:17:21I, I have never these critics screenings that you go to Sonny.
JVL00:17:25This is, this is true. Victorino and I were at the same, we were at the screening for lethal weapon four. It was the most, the, the best crowd response I have ever seen to a movie in a theater. I've never seen anything like it. Like people just, they just loved it and everything about the thing worked. And uh, it introduced jet lead to American audiences, which was awesome. Uh, Chris made Chris rock into a movie star, right? This was, I think some of his first stuff on. On screen. Uh, just love, love the lethal weapons and uh, I, I think they're great.
Mike00:18:02Good pick. I, I love it. And, and you're right about the buddy cop, like melding with act like it's, it is sort of like the perfect combination and um, you know, it's like everybody is trying to recreate that and doesn't quite get the, the, uh, you know, balance of the ingredients. Right.
JVL00:18:20So good pick Sonny, Sonny, your last pick.
Sonny00:18:24Well, I'm in. I'm in kind of, kind of rough shape here because there were, there were a couple that I could have gone with here that got taken. I probably would have gone with lethal weapon here at the end. I'm a little bit surprised that you went with lethal weapon here because now you have, uh, you basically have two big cop franchises, JBL. You've got diehard and lethal weapon, which like, again, the two best top franchises, you could, you could get Beverly Hills cop in there as well, I guess, but, um, but I, I don't know. Um, oh wait, it's, it's such a, I'm sorry, sorry.
JVL00:18:54Do you not want to back the blue?
Sonny00:18:55Part of me, part of me wants to go. Part of me really wants to go with, um, would you, are you open to suggestions? I'm gonna run. No, I'm gonna run through my options here. I'm gonna run through my, I want to, I want to run through my thinking with you guys. So I, I, I'm not gonna go with the matrix, even though I kind of want to go with the matrix because the matrix does have arguably the best action film of the last 25 years with the matrix. Right. Um, and the matrix reloaded is terribly underrated as a pure action film. The whole hour in the middle of that movie is until the John Wick. Movies is the, the single best hour of action that, uh, American filmmaking has ever produced. Um, just a, just a great, but I'm not gonna go with it because revolutions is revolutions. I think is not great, but not terrible, not quite as terrible as everyone made it out to be. The resurrections is I think terrible. I, I hate that movie. Um, it does not work for me on any, on any level. Um, part of me wants to go with, uh, taken, which I, I love the taken movies. I love the taken movies. And we run into a taken three problem, which is that it's, it's not just that it's bad. It's that it's like borderline incompetent. The first one is great. Um, the second one's pretty good. The third one is just really, really terrible. I, I would, if I were a slightly different person, I would pick the fast and furious franchise here because you've got 10 entries and you got a whole, there's a whole mess of movies here that you could, um, pick from. But I don't, as you, as you guys on the show, no, I don't actually like these movies. I don't actually, this is, this is a, this is a. It's a problem for me to pick this because it would be a pure, it would be a pure, uh, pandering play. I'd be pandering to the audience. Um, I would be saying, look at this great thing that I've picked. And the, the last one that I'm not gonna pick, um, uh, is, uh, uh, I'm sorry, uh, I have a whole list here of things I'm not gonna pick. Um, I don't know, uh, Kingsman I'm well, so this, and now we come to my actual choice here, which is the Kingsman movies. Yes. Which I like a great deal. Yeah. I find them, I find them to be incredibly stylish. I like the kind of subversion of the James Bond tropes and the, uh, and, and, and all that stuff. And also I just find Taryn Edgerton to be incredibly, uh, incredibly charismatic and likable. I've re he's grown on me a great deal over the years. He's great in the new Tetris movie, which is, uh, out on Apple TV plus now, um, uh, I like him a lot. Um, but I also, I, you know, I can't, did we, did we talk about, uh, the last one? That was set in world war one JBL.
JVL00:21:27I don't believe we did an episode on that. I don't believe we did.
Sonny00:21:30So that movie, that movie is, is bonkers on a number of levels, but the reason, the reason I have, I, I admire it the most is because it has a post-credit scene, uh, bringing Hitler and Stalin together, like it, like bringing together the cinematic universes of, uh, it's Matthew Vaughn is doing an insane thing with this series and I think it's totally under appreciated. And will in like 15 years, people will be like, oh yeah, the Kingsman is like the, is in a, in a very real way, the defining series of this age because of all the insane things it was doing in it. But, um, I am a, I'm a huge Kingsman fan.
Mike00:22:09Uh, that last one was called just the King's man, right? The King's man. I love it. Yes.
JVL00:22:16The King's man. Can I, before you put this in ink, can I offer you three possible alternatives, Sonny?
Sonny00:22:24Sure. Go for it.
JVL00:22:26Uh, rush hour. I thought about rush hour. The rush hour series. I thought about rush hour.
Sonny00:22:30Which is quite funny. Thought about rush hour. And quite good. I don't, I don't like those movies.
JVL00:22:34I don't like those movies. Uh, Highlander.
Sonny00:22:36Highlander, Highlander is, Highlander has one great entry and then like 17 bad ones.
JVL00:22:41Okay. Rambo.
Sonny00:22:43Rambo. Again, I like Rambo a lot, um, but it, it just, it didn't work for me. The other option here, the other one that I was, I was very strongly considering basically a coin flip between a Kingsman. This was bad boys. Ah. Yeah. Bad boys. The Michael, I like, we have a, we have an entire action movie draft. We don't have a single Michael Bay movie on any of our lists.
JVL00:23:04It's cuz he didn't do franchises except for terminators. Right. Uh, you mean bad boys. I'm sorry. Uh, no. Transformers. Sorry.
Sonny00:23:13It's what I meant to say. Oh, he made, he made the first two. He made the first two bad boys movies. Yeah. Um, and then the third one got handed off to the guys who made a back girl. Remember that, that movie that got shelved by dagger.
Mike00:23:24So, so are you sticking with, with Kingsman then Kingsman Kingsman's my choice.
Sonny00:23:29I really, I, we really was a coin flip between Kingsman and bad boys, which is the, the movie I was struck reaching for there at the end and, uh, kind of forgot about it until we were, uh, talking. So anyway, here's, I'm gonna run through the list here. I've got, I've got the list. Great. Do you want me or Mike? Did you write it down?
Mike00:23:43Do you, I wrote it down. I've got the list. I've got the list here.
Sonny00:23:46So we'll start, go for it, Mike. We'll start sunny. You have a more pleasing voice. You have a more Jeremy irons ask voice than I do.
Mike00:23:50Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate it. Uh, I don't, I don't pick good franchises, but at least I have a nice voice. Um, all right, well, let's start with you, Sonny. Uh, so your, your first round pick, you've got, uh, John wick, then the mad max, uh, franchise, and then finally the Kingsman, uh, I'd say pretty good, pretty good draft for Sonny Bunch, uh, JVL mission impossible, then die hard and lethal weapon. I mean, it, ah, that might be the best, that might be the best run event of any of us. Uh, and then me, I still stand by it. James Bond, Indiana Jones. And terminator. Can I make a couple of observations about this? There's only one, there's only one Arnold Schwarzenegger franchise in here. There are two Mel Gibson franchises, the mad max and lethal weapon, uh, franchises. So, uh, interesting, uh, interesting way that all shook out.
Sonny00:24:40Uh, can I, can I just, can I, I didn't do this, but I, I kinda wanted to cheat. I wanted to cheat and, uh, do MCU with my last pick the entire Marvel, the entire Marvel cinematic universe. So two things. I almost did that.
JVL00:24:55Two things. First of all, it's a comic book movie, not, not a still action, but there is action in
Sonny00:25:00it. There's action.
JVL00:25:02There's action in Star Wars and Star Wars is a science fiction. Yeah.
Sonny00:25:06Right. It's not science fiction.
JVL00:25:08Star Wars isn't science fiction. Could, could, could you have taken the dark night? Could you have taken the dark night series, right? Could you have taken Lord of the Rings? I don't think so. I think they're not primarily there. I don't know.
Sonny00:25:19I don't know about Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings is fantasy. I wouldn't take Lord of the Rings. I feel like, I feel like comic, I feel like there's enough overlap between comic books and action that it, that you don't like, you would have, you don't like the MCU movies.
JVL00:25:30And you think, well, this is the other reason.
Sonny00:25:31This is another reason I didn't do it because I, my, my real heart, I want to take the Zack Snyder trilogy of man of steel Batman versus Superman Dawn of justice, ultimate edition and Zack Snyder's justice league specifically those three movies, but I didn't, I didn't do it.
Mike00:25:47I didn't do it. So the, the other question I have was what about, and I guess I was thinking about it because of his. Uh, recent Oscar went, but I was thinking about the mummy, uh, that's an action franchise, right?
JVL00:25:57Even though it's got fantasy elements and other things, that's like Indiana Jones in
Mike00:26:00it. Right. That's a spin off. That's a spin off.
Sonny00:26:04Do you get the, do you get the, do you get the Scorpion King and the, the Scorpion King sequel? I believe you do. I think like Randy Orton or somebody who or Randy Couture, one of those guys, one of,
Mike00:26:15one of the Randy's did somebody mentioned Beverly Hills cop? Cause that would be another, I did mention it. Yeah.
JVL00:26:20That's, yeah, that's another, uh, honorable mention. So.
Mike00:26:22All right. Well, it's, it is now inked it's it's, it's, uh, in the record books, we've got our, uh, draft here. Uh, let us know what you think. Uh, uh, sub beacon.com. Thanks. Uh, any other final thoughts, guys? No. All right.
?00:26:35Thanks for listening.
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