#139. 'Confess Fletch'
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This week's film is Confess, Fletch, the Jon Hamm-led continuation of the Fletch mystery-comedy franchise, and all three hosts land in similarly mild-positive territory: Sonny, who has never much liked Chevy Chase's original Fletch films, calls this one "a nice cozy watch" and credits Hamm's more sympathetic, reactive comic energy for winning him over, though he flags the movie's oddly cursory treatment of its own murder victim and a glaringly obvious bit of ADR-patched dialogue near the end; JVL says he was "charmed enough" and pitches it as an ideal date movie, praising the uniformly strong bit players (Annie Mumolo's chaotic neighbor, John Slattery's brief Mad Men reunion with Hamm, Ayden Mayeri's deadpan rookie cop "Grizz"); and Vic, also a fan, runs it through his Quadrant system for a B on plot, an A+ on narration, a D on action/violence, and a B+ on sex/nudity. JVL also delivers an extended, half-appalled report on actually reading/listening to the original Gregory McDonald Fletch novels, describing them as a genuinely nasty, misogynistic neo-noir with little resemblance to either the Chevy Chase films or this new Hamm version, plus a detour into the famous "medium talent" Chevy Chase/Bill Murray feud from the Saturday Night Live years. As usual the episode opens with a long stretch of banter before the review proper: Sonny interrogates the mysteries of modern "vanity sizing" after a disorienting trip to Banana Republic, with a Brooks Brothers/Joseph A. Banks/Uniqlo tangent, while Vic recounts an extremely TMI physical exam at his new doctor's office — prostate check, flu shot, and a blood draw that revealed his blood was unusually "thick," which the others chalk up to dehydration — followed by a quick box-office check-in on The Woman King, Barbarian, and Pearl. The episode closes with a corrections/shoutouts segment (a nod to Montclair Brewery's Lesbierre) and a tangent about Sonny's Snyder Cut charity t-shirt.
From the show notes
(Not a still from the movie, but the look on Jon Hamm's face has made me lol irl about 10 times this week.) This week we discuss the appeal of Fletch, in all its forms.
Full transcript
Mike00:00:00- Earle Maurice Fletcher. - They caught me in the middle of a yawn. Can you imagine that? - Who killed this young woman? - I think the victim interrupted an art theft. - Your fingerprints are on the murder weapon and someone matching your description was seen with the victim. Come back with me to police headquarters. - I get it. You want my help? Okay.
Vic00:00:21Hey guys, is there any way we can call in a coffee order or a kill for a macchiato?
Mike00:00:24Not literally. - I looked into your criminal record. - And? - You're the shady character, Mr. Fletcher. - But I am adorable. - If you did kill that girl, do the right thing and give me an exclusive.
Vic00:00:45- Hello and welcome to another edition of The Sub-Beacon. I'm Victor Matus along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last. Just a reminder, The Sub-Beacon's now available through Patreon. Go to subbeacon.com, you'll easily find us. Please subscribe. Tell your friends. And don't forget about The Sub-Beacon merchandise store at tpublic.com. Gentlemen, how are we? JVL, what is going on?
JVL00:01:07- You know, I'm sorry. I don't have any dudes chatting this week because I went and did some extra assignment reading for the main guest of our show. - Oh yeah. - So I am doubly prepared for the meat of the show, but I have no chitchat to offer.
Vic00:01:24- Would you call it- - You have no chitchat. - Would you call it pulp? Is it pulp fiction?
JVL00:01:31- What are you referring to? The novels? Fletch? - Yes, yes. - I would call it neo-noir.
Vic00:01:40- Ah, oh yeah. Well, okay. That's the same feeling I have about the movies themselves. So not so much trashy per se. There's just certain- Well, we'll save that for the main. - Save it for the main. All this to say that I'm sorry, I don't have anything dudes chatting,
JVL00:01:54but I really think I'll be able to bring it in our conversation about- - The Fletchers.
Vic00:01:59- Glad you are otherwise well. - How are you, sir? - Sonny, what's going on? - Sorry, Sonny. - Sonny, please.
Sonny00:02:06- I'm good. - Sir, meaning Sonny. - So I went to, I have a general clothing question for you guys.
JVL00:02:13- Ooh. - Cloning?
Sonny00:02:14- Clothing question. Clothing. - Oh, clothing. - Ooh, I like those. - As in clothiers, if you go to the mall and you go to a clothing.
Vic00:02:21- I was gonna say, you can get your answers at Camino.
Sonny00:02:24- I, I... - God, Attack of the Clones reference?
Vic00:02:29- Yeah, I was like, wow, that went nowhere.
Sonny00:02:32- 2003?
Vic00:02:35- It's the best cloning reference I got.
Sonny00:02:38- Wow. - I went to, I went to the mall. I went to the mall. I went to the, I went to go get my, my annual cardigan. I went to go buy my, buy my annual cardigan. - It's gonna get, it's almost that time, yeah. - It's, it's almost, it's almost gonna be 90 degrees instead of 99 degrees every, every day in Texas.
Vic00:02:55- It's cold here. It must be cold up in Jersey, but go ahead.
Sonny00:02:57- So it's, it's getting, it's getting to be cardigan season. And I went to, I went to Barnes, or not Barnes, no. I went to Banana Republic, which is where I like to buy. - Do they still have those? - Cardigans, I like, oh yeah, it's very popular. Banana Republic, still a big deal. - They're all struggling, but, yeah. - I mean, everything is struggling. I mean, I like, I'm actually fascinated about the clothing market in general right now, because like, you know, like, are people still buying work shoes? I assume some people are still buying work shoes, but like-
Vic00:03:24- People are going back, but it's like certain days, like, in my building, certain days in the garage is packed, and other days it's empty.
Sonny00:03:31- Yeah, so I mean, like, I'm honestly extremely curious what the, what the market for, like, business clothes is. Like, are people still buying suits? I assume some people are still buying suits, but like, how many people are, you know, are people still buying belts? Like, when's the last time you bought a belt?
Vic00:03:50- Oh yeah, not in a very long time.
Sonny00:03:53- I mean, like, and part of that is just 'cause we're, we're like at a certain age where we don't, you know, we already have all the basics. - We have the belts. Belts are like ladders.
JVL00:04:00- Belts and ties. - You buy one of them once, and then you're basically done. - That's right. You, I got my weave belt, and that takes me everywhere.
Vic00:04:06- The leather weave, right? - Yeah, the leather, yeah, yeah, yeah. - The braided, the braid. - That's the look. - Got that my junior year in high school, and the braided leather belt. - I was gonna say, no, I might've bought that in an outlet in Orlando.
Sonny00:04:19- All right, but, but like, you, you know, you understand what I'm saying. Like, anyway, I'm, I'm curious about that, but here's my actual question. So I walked into, I walked into the Banana Republic, and I was looking at the clothes, and every scene, everything seemed big. Everything-
JVL00:04:34- Oh, you mean like the sizes?
Sonny00:04:35- The sizes of every, the sizes of everything on, on the tables and on the racks looked big to me. And now, like, part of it is like, I don't know, part of it is like, you know, maybe it's just like, they're putting out bigger sizes for, because America, the expansion of America, you know, the waistline of America.
Vic00:04:53- It's, it's a problem.
Sonny00:04:54- But that's, that is, that's a secondary question here, because when I went, I found, I found a cardigan I liked, and I tried it on in a medium, 'cause I'm, I'm like, I'm a medium now, because I've, you know, I'm skinny something. - You shrunk, you shrink. - Lost, lost all the weight. I lost all, I've lost all the weight again. I'm back, I'm back down to my, to the weight I left in Virginia at. I put off, took all that pandemic weight back off. - Your pre-pandemic weight, good for you. - But I went and tried on a medium, and it was like putting on an overcoat. I mean, it was, it was- - Wow. - It was enormous.
Vic00:05:25- So you're saying the M medium is a large, is a larger cut now?
Sonny00:05:29- The M, so this is, this is what I'm asking. If you guys have any, maybe listeners out there who do shopping more regularly will, will know. But I like, I tried it on and it was not, this was not the Banana Republic circa 2019, 2020, when I was trying on like medium cardigans. This was, this thing was enormous. And I like, I took it off, I was like, I can't wear this. I put on a small, I put on a small, Banana Republic cardigan. Which again, like, you know, Banana Republic isn't like, it's not like, I don't know, like John Barbados, right? Or, you know, something, it's not like a super slim cut, but it's slimmer than, you know, your standard baggy style.
Vic00:06:05- And you're saying that the small felt comfortable on you, Sonny?
Sonny00:06:08- And the small, the small fit, the small was like, oh, I gotta get a small, I gotta get a small cardigan. - That's too, you're getting too small now. - Now here's, here's my question. Here's the, here's the question.
JVL00:06:16- 'Cause I haven't, I have the answer.
Sonny00:06:18- Are the sizes, is it, is it that the style has, is it that the style of the time has changed to a baggier style? - Nope. - People are wearing baggier clothes because, you know, or is it, is it, is it vanity sizing? Is it like, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna make people feel better by convincing them that they have, they have like earned being able to buy the smaller thing by being so healthy.
JVL00:06:42- So what you have is a bifurcation in the market where if you are a retailer selling to young people, everything's super skinny, right? The pants are skinny, the ties are skinny, the jacket. They're selling to people whose shoulders are 18 inches wide and whose waists are 28 inches.
Vic00:07:02- Right, right, right.
JVL00:07:03- And if you are a retailer who sells to people of a certain middle age, they are changing. I remember talking with a salesman at Brooks Brothers, like 15 years ago about this. You know, like I went into Brooks Brothers and I had the exact same experience. Like I was needed to find like a medium polo shirt or something. And you know, I was like, I'm 6'2", 200 pounds. I should not be wearing, at the time, not no more, but you know, like I should not be wearing a medium. And the salesman laughed. He's like, yeah, well, you know, our customer base is getting older. And so they just making them bigger so that the rich guys who shop at Brooks Brothers feel like, oh, I still fit in the large, look at that, you know?
Vic00:07:44- Right, there's no international law that says medium equals this. In our minds, there are. In the minds, it must be a universal standard that cannot be broken from, but.
Sonny00:07:54- Well, so this is the secondary, or like tertiary question almost, is that like, you know, in theory, right? Like if you buy a suit, a 38 regular or a 38, you know, should be like 38 inches around your chest, right? Like that is like what the 38 should be. But even there, I tried, I was curious. I was like, well, I'm gonna try on one of these. I'm gonna try on a sport coat from Banana Republic. The like slim tailored cut, right? They're like slimmer cut. And I tried it on and it fit, the 38 regular like narrow tailored cut fit almost baggily. And I was just like, no, this is not how it used to be. This is, I like, again, even when I lost a bunch of weight, you know, a couple of years back, like that's not what it was like. - It didn't make you feel better? - Of course it made me feel better. That's why I bought 10 suits, brought them all home. So I was like, I need, I fit into this stuff now, I gotta wear it. - 10 suits, what is this? - No, I didn't.
Vic00:08:56- What is this, Joseph A. Banks?
Sonny00:08:57- Yeah, I bought, I bought them like from the- - Buy two suits, get eight free. - I brought them from the roll of suits. I just rolled them off. - Thank you.
JVL00:09:06- Oh yes, there's a- - And took them.
Sonny00:09:08- Yes. - No, I, but it was, I only bought, I only bought the card. I actually had to buy the card again online 'cause they didn't have the color I wanted.
Vic00:09:15- Did you get the shawl collar? 'Cause that's what I'm picturing for you, Sonny, the shawl.
Sonny00:09:19- Oh yeah, shawl collar with buttons. Oh, it's, it's lovely.
JVL00:09:23- Victorino, I need a greater sign, lesser sign. Greater than, lesser than Joseph A. Banks, Men's Warehouse.
Vic00:09:32- Oh, I think Joseph A. Banks is greater sign, Men's Warehouse.
JVL00:09:35- Yes. - Yeah.
Vic00:09:36- Okay. - I think so. I think so. I, I just, I don't know why-
JVL00:09:41- Do you remember the two britches? There's like the good britches, which was the britches of Georgetown, which is the expensive one. - Yes. - And there's the normal britches, which was especially just like Arabistall. - Well, there's britches great outdoors.
Vic00:09:51- Britches great outdoors. - Britches great outdoors. Right. - Britches great outdoors. I was, it's funny, you should mention Brooks Brothers. So I was at the mall not long ago and I did in fact, buy a pair of pants because they were half off, which by the way is a Michael Jackson joke, but we'll get into that. Anyway, you remember that one? Anyway, so they were like, oh good. I, it's like 50% off. So I, I get it, but I had to get it tailored because it was too long, you know? And so now they're the perfect length. The waist, it's a tight one. And it's 34, which I normally fit into, but I might've been there maybe after lunch is the first thing. But the second thing is the legs are tight and I hate those pants. You know, the pants where, so like I am wearing socks. Oh, let me pull up my socks. But my calves are large.
Sonny00:10:42- They're like tapered. They're tapered at the-
Vic00:10:44- Yeah, I mean, and again, it goes to, it goes back to this thing about these, these men who are the model for these kinds of clothes, they're all thin men. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you somebody who fits this mold exactly. I once had lunch with Dan Zak from the Washington Post. You know, Dan's that really nice guy, but he's so like thin, like, you know, narrow, like this, perfect. Everything can fit him like that. You know what I mean? That's like the kind of, that's the body type is just like somebody who's very thin. And so this was very, this was, I don't know. I hate that because I can barely, you know, once you get my foot, your foot through the, through the hole. - They're hot pants. - Well, I mean, it's crazy, but there are, but you, you were talking about Brooks Brothers and they do have this. So there's again with the polo shirts, they have the slim fit ones, which are more like I like to wear now. And then there's regular, or they think they want to call it casual or regular or traditional fit. - Traditional.
JVL00:11:41- And it still will say medium. - Fat old man.
Vic00:11:44- Right, right. It'll still say medium, but it's basically like a muumuuu. You know, I mean, it's just very large. I used to, I had some of those. And the other thing is the dress shirts, there's Regent and Madison. And I think Madison's again, like JVL was saying, a bit more billowy, shall we say.
Sonny00:12:00It's traditional. - The Regent, the Regent was the like old slim cut. And now I think they have a, and, and like, that's what I used to, but I think they also have a, the Milano, which is like the ultra slim cut. - Is that right? - Which is.
Vic00:12:13- What I hate was, is when it bunches up. So if I'm sitting down, I have the little bubble and then I feel like I need to like tuck it in.
JVL00:12:19- You can't wear any of those because of just the neck. Right? It doesn't matter how slim the rest of you is. - Here are my measurements. - You have a 42 inch neck, 32 inch waist.
Sonny00:12:30- Let me guess. I want to guess. I want to guess. I want to guess.
JVL00:12:34I will guess.
Sonny00:12:35- 19. - I will, I will guess 17 and a half. - No. - Sonny got it.
Vic00:12:41- It's 17 and a half. - Only 17 and a half? - 17 and a half. I used to be 18, but 17 and a half is fine now. But, and the sleeve is about 30. It's about 34. So 17 and a half 34. And then, and then the, and then wait. And then my pants are.
Sonny00:12:57- Do you get a shot there? You get a little shot?
Vic00:12:59- Oh, that's my next. That's, that's, that's, that's my turn.
Sonny00:13:03- Sorry people who are listening. I just saw, he just stretched his arm out and I saw a little, a little.
Vic00:13:06- He jumped the gun. I got here. I got a shot. Ow. I got a shot here.
Sonny00:13:11- All right. We'll get to, we'll get to, we'll get to that.
Vic00:13:13- No, we'll get to it. Okay. But anyway, and then 34, 30, ideally I refuse. But I was thinking about, cause remember in, in Seinfeld, an episode where Jerry apparently, you know, lies about the waistline. He actually changes the number.
Sonny00:13:27- It changes it from 32 to 31. I think he was like, I'm not a 32.
Vic00:13:31- Right. Yeah. But that's, that's, that's, that's all I got. So that, that, that's your experience at the mall is.
Sonny00:13:38- It was just, it was just, it was very interesting because like, again, it was like, everything was just, everything just looked enormous on the tables.
JVL00:13:47- Who shops at Banana Republic now?
Sonny00:13:48- I don't know. Me?
Vic00:13:51- Is it middle-aged people like you? - People like me? - 'Cause it used to be. - Is it really for middle-aged? I thought it's for young people though. It's not for young, Banana Republic is not for young people. You're saying that that's not where they go. They go now to.
Sonny00:13:59- I feel like it's where we used to go as young people. So now they're old people.
JVL00:14:02- That's right. And so we just keep shopping there. And so we've aged up the brand. - Yeah. - Where do the young people now go? Do they still go to Hollister?
Sonny00:14:09- Somebody, somebody.
JVL00:14:10- Or is Hollister like, you know, I'm now shopping at Hollister or 35.
Vic00:14:12- I know this from the kids.
Sonny00:14:14- Somebody at Banana Republic is listening to this, listening to this podcast. They're gonna kill themselves. Like, God, I work for, I work for the Brooks Brothers of 2022. No, I think now it's like Topshop, right?
JVL00:14:25- Oh, Uniqlo, perhaps Uniqlo. - Uniqlo. - Uniqlo. - Uniqlo is a Japanese brand. - Japanese.
Sonny00:14:31- Yeah, but they, they have some, they have some American outlets. I've been to the, I've been to the one in New York City. It's very nice. - Only a few.
JVL00:14:37- There's Uniqlo at Tysons. - You know, their brand ambassador for many years was Novak Djokovic.
Sonny00:14:42- Oh, really? - Yeah. - Interesting. - That's why JBL spits on Uniqlo every time he sees somebody passing by.
JVL00:14:47- No, I, I, but I think Uniqlo is much more low. It is Gap level or slightly below Gap level in terms of quality of materials and fit and finish. Whereas Banana Republic, which is owned by the Gap group, right, was, was the step up from Gap. - That's right. Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic. - The idea was you graduated from Old Navy to Gap to Banana Republic. - Banana Republic.
Sonny00:15:12And then I, it was, is J Crew part of that as well? Was J Crew like the top? - I don't think so. - No, but they have their own problems. - I think J Crew was separate. - Man. - Was J Crew separate?
Vic00:15:20- Yeah. - Yeah. - Okay. - Victorino, how are you? Okay there, buddy? - I'm exhausted.
JVL00:15:25- Was that for the, for the, the game room?
Vic00:15:27- Yes, that's right. Again, if we had video, you'd see what we're doing here. I am, so I had my physical with my new doctor because the other doctors had left to go - Moon River.
JVL00:15:38- They do, yeah.
Vic00:15:40And I, you know, I called ahead, that's speaking of Fletch. - Thank you. - Thank you. He's like, oh, you gotta, what does he say? You gotta, should you use the whole fist on her doc? So initially I called and they're, they're like, so do I have to take a blood test? No, no, don't take it beforehand. This you'll probably not take one. No, you're probably not. You'll get one scheduled after this. I said, good. Cause I usually like to, I don't want to say cheat, but I'd like to prep before the blood test happens by making sure I don't go crazy or anything and then get a more, you know, a leaner read, shall we say. So nobody's going to get on my case about anything.
Sonny00:16:19So. - You don't want to actually be healthy. You just want to have the appearance, the brief appearance of healthiness.
JVL00:16:24- Just the appearance until next year. - You just need to be healthy enough to pass the test.
Sonny00:16:29- Yeah. - And it's not like, it's not like this is for insurance or anything. This is just like, you just don't want to get yelled at by the doctor.
Vic00:16:35- That's right. That's right.
Sonny00:16:37So much like. - You just want to please the doctor. - What?
Vic00:16:39- You're just trying to win the doctor's vote. - Yes, that's right. - It's like.
Sonny00:16:41- Best patient. Best patient, Vic Matus.
Vic00:16:44- Winston Wolfe says in Pulp Fiction, you know, enough so the subterfuge will last, you know, if a cop sticks his snout in there, the whole thing. So I go in and she's very nice. We're talking, go through a whole history of things, explaining why I'm there. And then I said, oh, and I have the surgery coming up. And then I have to explain, oh, really? Blah, blah, blah. And I said, yeah, apparently.
JVL00:17:08- She said, you have a what in your face?
Vic00:17:10- I showed her the picture. She goes, oh, that doesn't look good. She said. - I showed her the movie. - She literally said, she goes, oh, that, that, I'm sure that's going to be. - Did she go, oh. - She's like, yeah, that's. - Did she look away? - I told her, she's like, I'm sure that's going to be unpleasant. And, and I said, well, apparently they have to, you know, get the approval. She goes, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we'll do some of the stuff now and then whatever, whatever, not like an EKG. I didn't have that done, but she said, okay. So after I get the full, you know, she goes, we'll do the full physical then. So next thing you know, you know, I'm in a hospital, I'm in the gown, I'm in the gown with my boxers. And then she's just, you know, taking my blood pressure, you know, which is not bad. And then.
JVL00:17:52- How much younger than you is this doctor? Cause you're now reaching the age where you're going to get
Vic00:17:56doctors younger than you. - No, I'll tell you, this is very funny. She's in a practice. I think she's a little bit older. I could be wrong, wearing masks and all, but one of the partners in her practice, it was a classmate of mine from Georgetown.
Mike00:18:09- Hmm.
Vic00:18:11- But I didn't actually know him, but he was a nice guy from what I hear. - Was he void? - No, no, no, exact opposite, exact opposite, you know? And I used to, I think I used to go, he was not like part of the drinking crowd. Therefore I did not know him, sure.
JVL00:18:27- Why would you?
Vic00:18:28- Why would I, you know? And except for now I'm at his mercy cause it's his practice in any event. So then she's, I have to lie down, she's feeling around. And next thing you know, it's like, okay, let's check for, you know, testicular. Oh, here we are. And I'm like, gee. - Can I, hold on. I need a couple of seconds to get half mast here. - He said, hold on, let me get myself a . No, bleep that, that's terrible. That's, I can't say that word. But then she was like, but then I'm like, gee, it's awfully cold in here, you know?
Sonny00:18:56It's just like, what's happening? - People are gonna know what you said, Vic.
Vic00:19:00- It's cold? And she's like, yeah, it's about 80 degrees. Oh, okay, nevermind. So anyway, then I get up, do this whole thing. And then afterwards I get a flu shot, which is why I'm feeling like, ugh. Tonight, because I just got it like a few hours ago. And then I had to get my blood drawn. And so it's a good thing I did not have breakfast.
JVL00:19:18- After the flu shot?
Vic00:19:20- Yes. So back to back. So flu shot here. And as you can see the- - Blood stick there, yeah. - Blood stick there. And I had to go and it was just a good thing. I did not eat. I was going to eat and I didn't. So, and now, but now it's like afternoon, it's like 1:30. And so. - Yeah.
?00:19:39- And so. - And now, but now it's like afternoon, it's like 1:30. And so. - And now, but now it's like afternoon, it's like 1:30.
Vic00:19:39And so I go to the guy and the guy says, oh, first thing is, well, we'll need a urine sample. And I'm like, I don't think I could go. I'm like parched. He's like, so I have to drink the water, do the whole thing, get that done. And then after that, draw the blood. Of course, you know, like had I known I would not have been eating French fries last night, you know, or other things, drink it. And I drank a lot over the weekend. I have no, you know, Chipotle, that's not good. And so I'm sitting there and of course then he, you know, he just plunges in and I was just like, ah, it hurts. And yes, that's right, Sonny, plunges in, it hurts. - The blood draw, not the prostate check, okay. - Oh no, no, no. - Gotcha. - So he's plunging in, huh? - He's plunging in. - He's diving in. - It's a big gauge needle, I think. And he's like, oh, we gotta, you know, we gotta get that blood out. He, by the way, the assistant, he reminded me of Dr. Hibbert from "The Simpsons." And he's like, and so he's waiting and he's tapping on this thing. He's adjusting my arms. - Diagnosis delicious. - Delicious, right, diagnosis delicious. And he's like, make a fist and the whole thing, now let go. Okay, oh, it's a little slow here. And he was like, mm. He says, it's awfully thick. And I'm like, yeah, it's basically gravy now. Is that what he's saying? That the blood is so thick. I'm sure what, like the lie I told my-
JVL00:20:58- Because of dehydration. It's because of dehydration. - It's because of dehydration. - That's why. - You're practically a doctor. Would you say that's what it is? - I was one eighth of the way towards being a doctor.
Vic00:21:07Yes. - I'll take that. It's better than, that's- - I took the MCAT. Surely that counts for something. - For you, and I know you did well. So I'll take your word for it. - I did MCAT. - But I was thinking, man, I was just downplaying my issues with the doctor saying, oh yeah, you know, triglycerides. Yeah, you know, I am bringing it down a little bit and you know, we'll see. So in a couple of days, we'll see what she has to say. But I'm like, they took three vials, three vials of blood. - That's normal.
Sonny00:21:36- That is a lot of blood. - Right, that's a full panel. - Yeah, that's-
Vic00:21:38- Full panel, that's too much blood. Speaking of too much blood over the weekend, Pearl came in third place at the box office with 3.1 million behind Barbarian, also a lot of blood, with six and a half million. And in first place was The Woman King, which I had no transition for that movie.
Sonny00:21:54- Also a lot of blood.
Vic00:21:55- What was that?
Sonny00:21:56- Also a lot of blood. - Really? - It's big bloody battles.
Vic00:21:59- 19.1 million, box office thoughts.
Sonny00:22:04- The performance of The Woman King is kind of interesting 'cause Sony had projected 12 million. They were low-balling it. Industry projections were about 15 million and it did 19 million. The lesson here as always is that the studios, the tracking companies still have no idea how to predict movies that target black audiences. They just don't do it very well. So being off by, you know, 50 to 30% is not a surprise there. But it's still, I mean, like 19 million is okay. It's not, it's not like it did a, you know, an amazing, huge weekend, first weekend.
Vic00:22:40Question about "The Woman King," Sonny. Is this a, I don't know much about it. Is it, is it, is it a period piece?
Sonny00:22:48Yeah. So it's, it's about the, the goji who are basically, you remember in "Black Panther," the Dora, Dora Milaje, the lady warriors with the bald heads. Yes. Who protected the king, right? That's basically what the, they were based on. They were modeled after the goji who are these warrior, the all female warrior group from the Dahomey kingdom in Africa. And this movie has caused some controversy. I wrote about a little bit about this in the Washington Post this week, but the, the movie has caused some controversy because the, in the film, the Dahomey kingdom is portrayed as essentially like on the verge of slavery abolition. Like at this point, at this point in the history of Africa, the warring kingdoms are taking each other prisoner as slaves and then selling them to the Portuguese for weapons, which they are then using against each other in battle. Right. And this movie has caused some controversy because the Dahomey were like notoriously brutal slavers in reality. They were like, they were the bad guys in all these stories. Oh, that's interesting. The kingdom that they were, they're fighting against the Oyo kingdom were actually like closer to abolitionists. But like, you know, all of this was put to a stop by the British in the 1830s to the fifties. Anyway, like there's a certain amount of controversy about, you know, how portrayal and all that. I think the controversy is silly because like none of these historical epics are ever factually accurate.
Vic00:24:20Oh, I saw you making hints about this.
Sonny00:24:23For instance, like, yeah, for like, I mean like "Gladiator" ends with the restoration of the Roman Republic in like, you know, 180 AD or whatever. Like that didn't, sorry, sorry folks. That didn't happen. You know, like 300 is a, is a great movie. I love 300, but the idea that the Spartans were like lovers of liberal democracy and the flowering of human freedom in Greece, that's like, okay. But like, whatever, it's neither here nor there. People who saw the movie loved it. It got an A+ from CinemaScore.
JVL00:24:53I have one question for you, Sonny.
Sonny00:24:55Yes.
JVL00:24:56Will Viola Davis now become an unlikely action star in the way that Liam Neeson did following "Taken"? Because nobody would have thought of Liam Neeson as an action star pre "Taken", and everybody loved it. And nobody thought of Viola Davis as an action star. And will people, if people love this, will they just say, yeah, you know what? Yeah, F yeah. Let's see Viola Davis being an action lead.
Sonny00:25:20I could, I could, it's possible. I could see it happening. I wouldn't necessarily predict it because it's not, it's not a typical action movie. I mean, it's like a historical epic. It's not like, I mean, it's not, it's not like "Taken". It's not like "Taken" and it's not like "John Wick", right? Like, it's not like that sort of action. It's, it's a different sort of thing, but I could see it. I mean, I could totally see it happening.
JVL00:25:43I like Viola Davis basically. I like, I like Viola Davis. She's great. She's great in this.
Sonny00:25:48She's like, she's probably the best part of this movie. I mean, she just like, she has, she has gravity. She has it. She has that star factor. She's got gravitas.
JVL00:25:56You know, in "Widows", she's amazing.
Sonny00:25:58She's so good in "Widows". Remember "Widows" and how good that movie was?
Vic00:26:03Isn't she in that movie with Liam Neeson?
Sonny00:26:05Yes. With Liam Neeson. With Liam Neeson. That's right. I have nothing to add.
Vic00:26:11Don't bait me. Only try that movie that doesn't, that doesn't work. I have nothing to add.
Sonny00:26:16Most exciting though, most exciting this weekend is the fact that "Barbarian" was only down about 40%, which is an enormously good hold for a movie of this sort. It's a horror movie. So like, you know.
Vic00:26:28I get the sense it's growing on you, "Barbarian".
Sonny00:26:31I like, I loved it coming out of the theater. I wrote a rave. I wrote a, I wrote a four and a half out of five star rave. Pass. I like that movie. It's good. It's a good movie. Everyone should go see it. Everyone should do podcasts about it.
JVL00:26:42Everyone before they travel.
Sonny00:26:44All podcasts should be about "Barbarian". But no, but the hold was so good. And like the word of mouth on this is so good that Disney, who actually it was, it's technically a 20th century movie. It was picked up in the 20th century Fox purchase. But the, but Disney is putting it in another 500 more theaters this week. It's gone from like 2,300 to 2,800 screens. So if you have not, if you haven't had a chance to go see "Barbarian". It would be hard to make a sequel to this. Maybe a prequel. You could do like a prequel maybe.
Vic00:27:20Like "Pearl" and you liked "Pearl", Sonny?
Sonny00:27:23No, I didn't. I mean, it's, it's okay. I think "X" and "Pearl" are both just okay. They're more clever than good.
JVL00:27:29Sonny, do you want to tell the people your idea for a movie or are you just going to wait and write that screenplay?
Sonny00:27:35I got to write that screenplay. I don't want to give away all the goods. Don't give away the gold. Don't want to give away the goods. JVL, don't.
JVL00:27:41I'll just tell people that we were on Slack and Sonny was just spitballing some ideas for an A24 style high concept car, Blumhouse. And I just thought to myself,
Sonny00:27:51that sounds like it's a winner. It's a winner. It's a winner.
Vic00:27:57And this, okay, I can't wait. This week we're actually doing a movie that is just came out, but it was available on demand and it is-
JVL00:28:08Did it make $60,000 in the theaters, Vic? How far down on the-
Vic00:28:12Hold on one second. So did it, was it available in the theaters? Oh yeah. I believe so.
Sonny00:28:18It was on 800 screens.
Vic00:28:20Go ahead, keep- I should have just watched it in the theater for free per se. So the movie we're doing is Confess Fletch. What, how do you watch a movie? Why would I see it free? Oh, because of the, you know, stubs.
Sonny00:28:31Oh, you got the, you got the A-list. Yeah, yeah.
Vic00:28:34You got the AMCA A-list. I pay like $500 a month to see one movie a month. Great deal. I cannot believe- But you get to see Nicole Kidman. Yeah. You do. And she looks amazing. She's like, there's those apple cheeks on her face. So we're doing Confess Fletch. Confess Fletch. Starring Jon Hamm. This is not a reboot, but rather a continuation of the Fletch series. And Jonathan, of course, JVL has thoughts on this, but perhaps Sonny, would want to give us a big boy review.
Sonny00:29:06Well, I mean, I don't think it's a continuation of the series exactly. It's just a new adaptation of the Fletch books. Different stories. It's like a new Wizard of Oz or something.
JVL00:29:15It's an adaptation of another book in the series. Because the, which I did not realize until like two weeks ago, the movie Fletch is based on a series of books. The first of which is called Fletch.
Sonny00:29:28How many are there? I want to say like six, maybe five, four, three.
Vic00:29:33One of the books Fletch, was one of the books Fletch lives. Maybe, I don't know.
JVL00:29:38I just listened to the first one. Okay. We will talk a lot about the Gregory McDonald books after Sonny gives his big boy review. Sonny.
Sonny00:29:48So I have never been a huge fan of the Fletch movies, the Chevy Chase ones. They just never really did anything for me. Chevy Chase himself has never done a ton for me. I don't love him. I don't hate him or anything. I think he can work in certain situations. Funny in Caddyshack, for instance and that sort of thing. But he's never really appealed to me as like a pure leading man. So the Fletch movies I have always found vaguely off-putting. They just, I don't love him. So I came into this with like a certain amount of skepticism. I'm also skeptical of Jon Hamm as a comedian. Really? Jon Hamm is one of these guys who has always wanted to be seen as funny. And I always get very skeptical about people like that. I get very skeptical about the serious people who want to be seen as funny. There's actually like a whole funny bit in 30 Rock where like he's so like unbelievably handsome that everybody treats him like he's both a genius and hilarious all the time. He's like, I'm a doctor. I'm a doctor. I'm a doctor who's also a brilliant comedian. And Tina Fey's like, no dear, you poor, poor man. They're just being nice to you because they want to be friends with you because you're so attractive. And that is how I feel about him like kind of in general. So these are my biases coming into Confess Fletch. And I will say that, so Confess Fletch, it stars Jon Hamm as Fletch. He is a former investigative journalist turned detective, private eye, PI, something or other in that vein. He comes back from an Italian vacation, finds a dead body in the Airbnb that he's renting. And from there, he is trying to avoid being arrested while also solving the mystery of who stole the paintings of his girlfriend's father, who the father had hired him to, I forget, do something. It doesn't matter. The whole point of this movie is that the mystery doesn't actually matter at all. It's all about just watching Jon Hamm's reactions to things. And this is one of the things I never really cared for about the, the original movies, like Chevy Chase, I just find off-putting in certain ways. And for me, it works here. It works, it works for me here because Jon Hamm, I find much, just much more appealing. I just like, I like looking at him more. And he is also very funny. He has some very good reactions. I have, I have, is it, all right, I don't want, spoilers, I guess, spoilers, but is it just me or did this movie not care a single iota about the actual murdered woman in it? Not one bit.
Vic00:32:39There's not much about her at all. Not, not one little bit.
Sonny00:32:42So to, to the extent that like I was watching the movie, I was kind of like, okay, this is, they're doing a lot of weird stuff. None of it revolves around the dead woman that he's trying to, they're trying to frame him for murder.
Vic00:32:54Or how she was murdered, nothing.
Sonny00:32:56Yeah. And, and like, to, to the extent that in the last five minutes or so there's, I don't know if you guys noticed, did you watch it at home?
JVL00:33:03Mm-hmm.
Sonny00:33:03Yeah. So, so there's this incredibly awkward and obvious bit of ADR work at the end of the, as after dialogue recording. So like the, the, the, the, they reshot, they re-taped dialogue and like inserted it into the film. And it is, it is like, it's like a different, it's got like a different background noise. It just is like, it's glaringly obvious.
Vic00:33:29Was there like a delay with it? You could see the map sort of?
Sonny00:33:32No, no, no, no. It was one of the characters. It was one, when one of the characters, like back of his head was to the camera. So you couldn't see his mouth moving at all, but that's another way you could tell. And it just like, it's just like dumped in there, but it's like, oh, and by the way, she died. And you know, we're all very sad, but I'm glad you caught the killer. And it made me think that there was like a whole subplot of this movie that got cut out. Like it feels kind of chopped, chopped, chopped apart. It's 99 minutes. It's only 99 minutes. It felt, it felt chopped apart and put together. I didn't hate it. I didn't love it. It, but it was amusing enough and it has some good stuff. With John Hamm and John Slatter, John Slatterly, who played Roger Sterling on Mad Men. I don't know if you guys watch Mad Men, if you guys were Mad Men.
Vic00:34:14- It's, of course I loved it. I watched the whole thing.
Sonny00:34:17- But that, that was, that was very amusing and fun. And there's some good like death of journalism stuff in this. - Yeah, that was the best part. - The, the, the, the bits where they're in the, I don't know, is that the Boston Globe or?
Vic00:34:29- Yeah, it's the Boston Sentinel, but they had relocated from LA.
Sonny00:34:32- Okay. - Yeah, which is, which is very funny and like kind of sad, but also some there's, there are some sexual harassment jokes, which I think JBL is going to talk a little bit more about in his, in his, in his bit, but I don't know. The whole thing was, the whole thing was perfectly fine. I wasn't, I didn't hate it. It's definitely the sort of movie that is designed to be watched kind of half paying attention on your couch at home, maybe not for $20.
Vic00:35:00- I was going to say, I can't believe I, you know, like, I, I think I feel exactly the way you do, you do Sonny, I'll get into it later on more, but just in general, but you know, it was good enough, but, but I can't, 20 bucks is a lot. - 20 bucks is a lot, that's a lot for a girl like this. - You'd have to invite like a lot of people.
JVL00:35:20- That is what you would pay for a single ticket to go see it in a theater and you would have to leave your house. You'd have to pay for parking and get your parking validated and sit in a theater and you couldn't pause it if you were going to the bathroom.
Sonny00:35:31- But this is, this is part of the, this is part of the problem with the movie business right now is that a movie like this, it is, it's hard to put it in. So I see, I see a bunch of film critics talking about how like, oh, it's ridiculous that Miramax isn't putting more marketing weight behind this movie. Why is this being dumped to VOD? The critics love it. Audiences would love it. And like, I'm sorry guys, like this again, it's like, it's, it's fine. This is a perfectly fine movie. Jon Hamm is pretty good in it, but he's not like blowing my socks off or anything. Like it's just, it's just a, it's just a nice cozy watch. It's a nice cozy watch.
Vic00:36:06- It is, I mean, it's limited by its own story. You know what I mean? There's only so much you can do if that's the story, if you know. JVL.
JVL00:36:15- I was charmed enough by it. That's a, which is I think basically where you guys both are. - Yeah. - It's, it's not. - There are moments. - It's a, well, the whole movie is just moments, right? The actual plot of it is not all that important. - Yeah. - It is a series of scenes in which Jon Hamm has some, well, some good writing behind him. He has a lot to react to people and the, really the strength of it is the casting of all of the bit parts is really strong. And so like the, the two graffiti artists, right? Who were in the movie for 90 seconds are great. The, the, the woman who is chopping the vegetables and cuts her hand almost all the way off with the cats. - Yeah. - The pothead.
Sonny00:37:02- Yeah. - Annie Mavolo.
JVL00:37:04- Every single one of those roles.
Sonny00:37:06- Robert Picardo at the end.
JVL00:37:08- Perfectly.
Sonny00:37:09- Yeah. - The doctor from Voyager.
JVL00:37:11- It's, it's just, they're all great. The, the cop, the cop and his, his trainee are great. - Oh, I like the trainee.
Sonny00:37:21- Grizz. - Grizz.
JVL00:37:23- Oh yeah. - Yeah, she's like the Pakistani Judy Greer.
Vic00:37:27- I gotta process that one. Okay, continue JVL.
JVL00:37:30- But anyway, so it, I think it succeeds. - It kind of is. - It succeeds on the strength of really great character work from people in small parts. - Yes. - And it's not, you know what it is? It's, it's a really good date movie. Like you and your lady friend can see this and you will both be equally amused and equally charmed by it. - Yeah, I watched it with Kate and she liked it. - Yeah, it's not gonna be too much of anything. It's 99 minutes. You can then go out for dinner afterwards and maybe see if she wants to come back to your place and you know, maybe.
Vic00:38:03- Okay, that part did not happen to me.
JVL00:38:04- Put on some soft jazz and you know, if she's a 15 year old prostitute, then you fuck her the way Fletch does in the first movie.
Vic00:38:11- Oh! - Sorry, not the movie, the first book.
JVL00:38:15- First book. - The first book in which one of the things that Fletch does is fuck a 15 year old over and over again, who is a prostitute. - JVL. - This is, so this. - Do tell, I mean, not do tell, but I mean, do tell about what's going on here. - So here, I am fascinated by this, now that I have read the first of the Fletch books. The Chevy Chase movie Fletch is a comedy with a little bit of mystery inside it, right? And it's not just a comedy, it's basically a prop comedy. The whole idea of it is we're gonna let Chevy Chase do characters for you and Chevy Chase is a star. - He's a star and a funny man and they'll put him buck teeth and he'll put on funny accents. - Various disguises. - And he'll wear a hat and disguises, right? It's just a prop comedy.
Sonny00:39:09- He's got different names every time. The names, they're always different.
JVL00:39:13- And the book is a neo-noir. - Which worked for me, by the way, when I was 13. - It's kind of a nasty neo-noir story in which every single character is loathsome and Fletch himself is kind of loathsome. He's, imagine Matt Labash, if Matt Labash was a dick. So he's, you know, he's this investigative reporter who also, by the way, is a former Marine and winner of the Bronze Star and an action hero. Bet you didn't pick that up in the Chevy Chase Fletch.
Sonny00:39:50- Was he in Korea?
JVL00:39:51- Nam. - No. - Nam, he was in Indochina. And the whole thing is like super dark and he, he is, he's almost an anti-hero. Like he is not, not especially funny. All of his impersonation stuff, almost all of it is done on the phone. It is one of the things that Vic, I bet Sonny doesn't even understand what this, what this following sentence will mean. In the book, one of the things Fletch does is he calls information a lot to find out phone numbers of people. - Sure. - Do you remember, Sonny, do you know what information was?
Sonny00:40:27- Yes, grandpa. I know what information was.
Vic00:40:32- And anyway, it's one of these two numbers to remember, 411 and star 69.
JVL00:40:37- Oh, oh. - But it is, that was the reverse call. - Right. Anyway, so we can talk more about this and the original Fletch. But what I was saying is, as it applies to this, is like the Chevy Chase version, this Jon Hamm version really is a comedy and it's a couple's comedy. I think it really is meant to basically be watched on dates.
Vic00:41:01- Well, I think because of the original Fletch, there's the expectation that it's going to be, it has to be a comedy.
JVL00:41:07- But the character of Fletch in this one is almost entirely different than the others because, so in the novels, he is sort of a hard-boiled antihero. In the Chevy Chase movies, he is a goofy detective and in Fletch, in Confess Fletch, he is just a boob who stumbles around and doesn't even solve the mystery. Like it's, you know, he's just a bon vivant who is amused by the world that he finds and the mystery gets resolved without him. And I find that interesting and funny and I'll tell you what, we would all be saying that this movie is the greatest movie in the history of earth if the girl had been Ana de Armas.
Sonny00:41:57- Well, so she's-
Vic00:41:58- I knew who she was by the way, because of her voice. - Who is she?
Sonny00:42:04- She was the other girl from "Knock Knock". Haven't you guys ever- - She was the other one from "Knock Knock"? - Yes. - That's so funny. - She's the one who was married to Eli Roth.
Vic00:42:13- No, I was going to say, once upon a time- - They cast the wrong girl from "Knock Knock" in this. - Once upon a time in Hollywood, we're talking Lorenza Izzo. That's the girl.
Sonny00:42:21- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. She's also, yeah.
Vic00:42:23- Yeah, yeah.
Sonny00:42:24- But she's, but this is her first, her first big role was, was opposite Keanu Reeves and Ana de Armas in "Knock Knock".
JVL00:42:33- Ana de Armas would have been better in this role, if I could just say between us boys. - Can't wait for that movie. - Victorino, did you like it? I bet you- - Well, again- - Can I predict A minus?
Vic00:42:43- Please. - A B. - B? - Yeah, B. - B. - I'm surprised. - Me too. Okay, so B, the plot is a B plus. I think I got it. I'm not sure, you know, did I miss anything? Maybe, I don't know. - The narration is an A plus. I mean, that is- - A plus plus plus. - It's gotta be one of the shortest movies we've done. Wonderfully. Action and violence is a D. I mean, there's antics, but it's not action and violence. Okay? - Yeah. - And then sex nudity, I gave it a B plus 'cause I liked that opening scene.
JVL00:43:14- This movie had been made in 1985. It would have done just fine.
Vic00:43:18- It would be so much more. - It would have done just fine. - In 2022, I'll take it.
Sonny00:43:23- Well, but it's interesting too, because this is an R rated movie. It's an R comedy, it's not-
Vic00:43:28- R rated movie?
Sonny00:43:29What gets an R in this? - There were so many F-bombs. I mean, yeah.
Vic00:43:34- Maybe. - I agree, by the way. I love the characters in the movie.
Sonny00:43:41- Yeah, it's an R.
Vic00:43:42- I think that what Sonny was saying before, Chevy Chase, that sort of humor, that's an acquired taste. And then it doesn't help that we know all backstories about how Chevy Chase is-
JVL00:43:54- You know who Chevy Chase is? - Nice guy. - Chevy Chase is like, the love child of Ryan Reynolds and Jerry Lewis.
Mike00:44:03- That's terrible. Oh my gosh.
JVL00:44:06- Yeah, I can see that, though. I can see that, though. - He's like smarm plus hacky prop comic.
Sonny00:44:11- Smarm. - Mean-spirited smarm, not like- - Mean-spirited smarm. - Not like, kind of like, "Oh, we're all buddies here." - Well, there's some mean-spirited Jerry Lewis, too. - So I'm curious. Did you guys love the original Fletch movies? 'Cause I feel like you're right in the age wheelhouse for Fletchers. - Fletch and Fletch Linens.
JVL00:44:29- That was an, that was a awfully adult. I pulled one over on my parents getting to see Fletch.
Vic00:44:35- I think we all saw it as a family. So I was 13. I loved it.
Sonny00:44:44- Right after the Texas Chainsaw Mass double feature at the Mattis house. - Yeah, that's right. It was a feature with the Mattis family.
Vic00:44:49- Right, there was that, and I believe it was that and Body Double. No, thank you. Anyway. I liked it and I wondered why I liked it because I had rewatched Fletch and I don't know, a couple months ago and it's definitely a very slow paced. There's a, there's a pace. I mean, it's very, as JVL says, neo-noir because you know, he's trying to figure out these things, the pattern, the whole thing, talking with these various suspects and witnesses, whoever. And, and, and it just moves on. And this movie is the same way. It just goes, it kind of is slow in a weird way.
JVL00:45:26- Yeah, it's just like, I'm going to talk to this person. I'm going to go talk to this person. - That's the movie.
Vic00:45:30- I'm going to talk to this person. - But I remember really liking it at the time when I was 13 and there's still some amusing parts to the movie, but, by the way, a catchy song at the end of the original Fletch called, I think it's called a bit by bit. - Yeah. - You remember that bit by bit, like one thing after another, something like that. And, and Fletch is in the lyrics. You got to look it up. It's, it's oddly ear-worming. Okay. In terms of the character, in terms of the, you mentioned the neighbor, Annie Momolo. I liked that scene a lot. I thought it was completely absurd. Sonny, people remember her from, I wrote this down, Sonny's favorite movie of all time, "Barb and Star Go to Vista Del Mar."
Sonny00:46:19- That's a good movie. - Oh, she's in "Barb and Star"? - Yeah, she was opposite Kristen Wiig. - She's either Barb or Storr. She's one of the two.
Vic00:46:26But I will say this and please don't guess. Don't guess, I don't want to hear your guesses. I'm just going to say, watching that, and I was sitting next to Kate and I said that her character reminded me of someone we used to work with. And I thought if you went to that person's- - I know, exactly. - Don't say it, don't say it. And if you went to that person's apartment, except for instead of a dog, it would be a cat, but it would be just like, it would just be that.
Sonny00:46:56- Hold on, I have no idea who you guys are-
Vic00:46:58- You have no idea, I don't know if Sonny, if you overlapped, yeah, oh, that's it, JVL got it.
Sonny00:47:04- Okay, I get that. - Totally.
Vic00:47:06So, you know, and it's just like, you would not want to eat anything from that apartment.
Sonny00:47:12- And that's the best scene in the movie, by the way. It is so, it's so good because it really is, it plays off of Ham's comedic strengths, which is him being like attractive and befuddled by what is happening around him. - I like, it just is, it works really well.
Vic00:47:29- The chicken, when she pours the oil, it's the little things and she's, you know, you know what's going to happen. And of course, she slices her finger.
JVL00:47:34- And then she's like, "Oh, it'll go out on its own."
Vic00:47:37- Right, and then of course, the dog, yeah, he pees when he's hungry. Not, let me clean this up, but just-
Sonny00:47:44- The fire alarm goes off and she's like, "Oh, it must be the battery again, ugh."
Vic00:47:48- And she's just trying to break it and he just gets out of there. She's a mess, a hot mess, as they say. But the other great scene, and I think they tease this in the trailer, which is when you see him with John Slattery, Jon Hamm Johnson, "Oh my gosh, it's like Mad Men reunion. "I got to see that." And in fact, it's a very small scene.
Sonny00:48:05- Yeah, they're only in the movie together with each other for like three minutes. - Right. - It's a rip off.
Vic00:48:09- It is a rip off. - That was enough for me. - Really? - Oh, you didn't like that? - I love that scene because when he goes to the offices and he says, "Oh, did anyone else move over?" He goes, "No. "Oh, except for Pete who does the jumble." I mean, because again, it's this relic and he's an old man and these are, that is like journalism dying and it's so funny but sad.
JVL00:48:30- Funny but sad. - So the, you know, and it's funny. This is the Fletch Novels in which he's at the LA Times and he is a star undercover reporter, which again is a thing that's can only happen pre-internet, right? 'Cause nobody knows what IM Fletcher looks like. And he, I gotta say some of the level of misogyny in the Fletch books is uncomfortable, yeah. - Even for you, wow. - For instance, for instance.
Sonny00:49:02- When were those books published?
JVL00:49:04- 70, beginning in 75, I think. And like his editor is an incompetent former food writer who is promoted to whatever her position is because she's sleeping with Frank, the John Slattery character who is himself married but she's having an affair with him. And every time she has a conversation with Fletch,
Sonny00:49:32you know, he's calling her a dumb bitch.
JVL00:49:34And you know, you only have this job because you're bawling Frank and you just keep your incompetent paws off my copy. And she's like, oh, you're submissive. It's a different time, man.
Vic00:49:49- Well, I know.
JVL00:49:49- It is a different time.
Vic00:49:50- It's not, you know, these aren't like certain other, you know, noir novels that people love to read to this. You don't hear much about people reading these Fletch novels.
JVL00:50:02- I'm sorry to keep bringing this up, but there is a 15 year old junkie prostitute who he fucks all through the first half of the book. And he's like in his early thirties. And this is just like a thing. - Did you order this?
Sonny00:50:17- Los Angeles.
JVL00:50:18- Did you order this on Amazon? You found this on Amazon? - I listened to it on Audible. - Oh. - Okay. - It's, I am, but the other thing is, it is, when I say it was like, it's a nasty book in that it, in the way that the movies treat all of the characters as figures of fun, right? For instance, the doc, right? Moon River, right? The doc is a funny figure. - Right. - Lacey, is her name Lacey Underall? What's, what's? - That's from "The Caddyshack."
Sonny00:50:47- That's from "The Caddyshack."
JVL00:50:48- That's "The Caddyshack." - But whatever Joan Collins is, you know, shtick is like, she's funny, right? And in, in "Confess Fletch" the woman who is the interior decorator, who, you know, he's like, you know,
Sonny00:51:03what does bespoke mean? And she's like.
JVL00:51:05- Oh, right, yes. - Like there is a, it's funny and you're laughing at the character, but also kind of with them. And you know, in the, in the McDonald books,
Sonny00:51:18literally every single character is contemptible.
JVL00:51:21- Yeah. - Like there are big, the, the, you know, Frank is contemptible. The cops are contemptible. The other junkies on the beach, fat Sam, and even Fletch himself. Like it is just full, everybody is, everybody is dark and you're supposed to hate all of them. It's not, it's not funny. Like nothing about it is designed to be funny. And so it seems.
Vic00:51:43- Again, it's not like, but, and, and probably why we don't really hear a lot of people who love reading those versus the, well, who, Raymond Chandler or whatever.
Sonny00:51:52- Yeah, it's not like an Elmore Leonard. - No, it's not, it's not great either.
JVL00:51:56Like it's, it's very middling, but there was like a cult of it and it was optioned very early. So the, of the Fletch books were optioned not long after publication and they just bounced around and there were a bunch of different people attached to it at different times. And it wasn't until Chevy Chase and his director latched onto it, that it finally got made. And there does seem to be a cult of Fletch. - Totally, I was about to say, it became a cult classic. - Right, Kevin Smith is obsessed with it. - Yeah. - And I don't fully understand why. - Yeah. - I don't get it.
Vic00:52:31- Including the humor, which is very sort of little.
JVL00:52:33- But I think it's the hackiness of it. I think it's the, right, there are people who are really into Chevy Chase. - Spain, Provo, Utah, you know, just the little things.
Sonny00:52:42- Again, this is why I was really curious to see if you guys were into it, because I feel like a surprisingly large number of people who I like and respect are super into Fletch. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah. - Just like super, super into Fletch. And I have never for the life of me understood it. I just don't get it. I don't get it at all. And like, like you say, it's just broad and like, and you know, I don't know. I mean, people seem to like it. So maybe I'm wrong. - I read an interview
JVL00:53:13with somebody who talked about how much Chevy really liked using the props. The Chevy was just, boy, he was so excited to be able to put the buck teeth in. He was like, ugh.
Vic00:53:25- Yeah, the slick back hair and he's the airplane tech, the mechanic, it's, it's gold.
JVL00:53:30- Medium talent. Medium talent, as Bill Murray famously said. This is my favorite in the, the Tom, what was the Washington Post TV critic? - Yeah, Tom Shales. - Tom Shales, Live from New York, the oral history of Saturday Night Live. - Yeah. - One of my favorite books ever written about like entertainment. So Chevy Chase is on Saturday Night Live. He leaves after one or two seasons, right? He's the big breakout star. He leaves to become a movie star and Bill Murray is brought in to replace him. And the week that he comes back to guest host and the rest of the cast fucking hates him, right? So he is being brought back as a conquering hero. The rest of the cast there hate him. And Bill Murray is like the new kid who the rest of the cast and they're basically priming him to hate Chevy. And as the curtain is about to go up, the two of them get into a physical altercation and need to be pulled off of one another, physically separated. At which point Bill Murray yells at Chevy, "Medium talent!" The greatest insult ever. - And was that before Caddyshack then? - Must've been, yeah.
Vic00:54:44- Yeah, I think that must've been awkward then when they did Caddyshack. - Do they appear in any scenes together? - Yes, he has to play through Chevy Chase. - In the groundskeeper's little den area, yeah.
JVL00:54:56- Well, we see who had the last laugh on that one, huh?
Vic00:55:00- You know who else was great? Was the Commodore, the old man.
JVL00:55:05- Oh yeah.
Vic00:55:06- He confessed much because he seemed, again, like you say JVL, no small parts. Like they're all playing, they're doing their best in each of these little roles. And he is straight out of a yacht club. - Yeah. - The type, I mean, it was just perfect. And in the end, it's kind of a funny ending for him too, you know, like sort of unexpected, but still funny.
JVL00:55:26- Talk to me about Grizz. You loved Grizz, right? - I did. - I don't know if it's the actress's name. I don't have IMDB in front of me, but she was just great. Great. - I was intrigued by her.
Vic00:55:38- In what way, Victorino? - You know, like less is more. Like she, I like the fact that she's very, 'cause she's a cop. She's a cop, so she doesn't all, she's not all done up is what I'm saying. You know, she's just a natural cop, very simple. Looking and hot. Okay. Just, just thought you would.
Sonny00:55:57- Aiden Mayeri, I don't, I'm not pronouncing that right. She was on Veep for a few episodes. She was in a marriage story. What's it, hasn't really been in a ton.
Vic00:56:09- Hmm.
Sonny00:56:09- Interesting.
Vic00:56:10- Look forward to seeing more of her.
Sonny00:56:13- You know, I mean, like the fourth, the fourth build, fourth build woman on IMDB is Lucy Punch, who plays Tatiana, Tatiana Tosserly. - Oh. - Who is, I guess the murder victim.
JVL00:56:26- Well, here's the other thing. - Is it she? - Marsha Gay Harden being an Italian dad. - No, she's the interior designer.
Sonny00:56:30- Yeah. - Oh, she's the interior designer. - The ex-wife. - Oh, okay. - Yeah, nevermind.
Vic00:56:34- But Marsha Gay Harden, for example, as the account, the countess, that was weird. I mean, for her doing the accent, I don't know. It's, it's okay, I guess. It's okay, I guess.
JVL00:56:43- You know what though? Here, here's the example of where I think they have outstanding writing. The scene where they are being brought together the, the, the, the mother and the, or the, the stepmother and the daughter, and they hate each other. - Yeah. - And they immediately go into like full Italian, let's cook, cook, cook, cook, cook together. Like that, I don't know, it was great.
Vic00:57:03- And the food looks great, by the way. - Yeah, wasn't it? It was, I loved it. - Yeah, of course. That's all part of it. So I like Jon Hammond. I think he's a pretty, I mean, look, he's played a lot of, he plays the bad guy, right? Top Gun, Richard Jewell, a lot of other movies. - He's great. - But I like, I think he's very funny, like in Bridesmaids, for example, Sonny.
Sonny00:57:21- Yeah, I mean, he is, I will put it this way. I think he, again, the way I would put it is, he wants to be seen as like a great comic talent. He wants people to think he's really, really funny. And he's not, but he is funny enough. And like in this movie, this is like the movie, the comedy that plays greatest to his strengths as a comedian, which is for him to be reacting to everybody around him, like he is a good reactor.
JVL00:57:51- I think that he, I think it's clear that he just prefers comedy. Like if he had his brothers, he would just do comedy all the time, which is not always the case. He does not have the gift for it that like Chris Hemsworth does. - No. - Right, I mean, Chris Hemsworth can be effortlessly funny in anything he's in and Ham has to be used in precisely the right way, I think, in order to be funny. And he can be, but I mean, it's clear that if he could do anything for the rest of his life, he would just do comedy.
Vic00:58:26- The way, what's his name? Who is the actor? You know, Hugh Jackman, if he could do only one thing. - Just do musicals forever, yeah. - Just do musicals, I wanna sing, as he would say. He said that like on Jay Leno's. He surprised everybody 'cause he was there to talk about Wolverine.
JVL00:58:44He was like, what, what's this? A whole other talent. - I wanna tell you that I'm doing The Music Man on Broadway. - Yeah.
Sonny00:58:51- Yeah, he doesn't, well, he doesn't wanna have to do HGH for the rest of his life to stay like Wolverine-like. You know, he wants to be able to like.
JVL00:58:59- I thought it was just a skinless chicken and high reps low weight.
Vic00:59:01- There we go. I will say this also, by the way, if you like sort of the interaction or if you're not that familiar with, if you don't follow carefully, like Mad Men, for example, if you look up on YouTube, there's a great little bit that they have on that stairs episode. If you just type in Mad Men stairs, it's great between, I mean, the Jon Hamm and Jon Slattery. And it's, they just have a very good dynamic with each other. Okay.
Sonny00:59:28Any other thoughts? - Yeah, I'm surprised JVL. I'm surprised that you hated that. That was like your least favorite part of it.
JVL00:59:32- I didn't hate it. I just, I, you know, I, I don't know how to say this without coming across wrong. I like Jon Slattery as a screen presence. I do get the sense that over the last 15 years or so, you've just decided to mail it in. No? - Spalled parts up.
Sonny00:59:55He was good in Spotlight. I like him in Spotlight. - He's been doing Roger Sterling for the last.
JVL01:00:00- He's basically, he played Roger Sterling and just realized this is just what I wanna do. Right? It's all Roger Sterling. - Yeah, that's right. - Okay. - Riding the girl around like a, like a horse in the office. You remember that?
Vic01:00:14- That's the first season. - Corrections, shout outs, anything?
JVL01:00:18- No, no, I got nothing. - The Montclair Brewery.
Vic01:00:21- Hey!
JVL01:00:22- Lesbierre. - Look at you. - Look at that.
Vic01:00:26- I don't know what that is, but it was delicious. - Good for Montclair. That's all the time. Sorry. I had a thought and I was like, eh, I'll just, oh, a really quick thought, which is very funny. JVL, you'll appreciate this. In the first season, I think of the Sopranos and Meadow is stressing out about not getting into like Georgetown or NYU where she wanted to go and then she's telling, she's talking to her friend and she says, oh no, I don't know what I'll do if I don't get into those schools. Hello, Montclair State.
Sonny01:00:59Great.
Vic01:01:00Montclair State, so popular.
Sonny01:01:02- Is that a good school or a bad school?
Vic01:01:03- It's a local, it's a local school. Okay. That's all the time we're giving to this episode. Questions, comments, compliments, tweet us @SonnyBunch, @VictorinoMattus. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on Patreon. Just go to subbeacon.com. We are there. Tell your friends. Until next time.
?01:01:19Bye.
JVL01:01:28- Sonny, what is that shirt you're wearing? With the Superman logo.
Sonny01:01:32- It was for, it was for one of the release, the Snyder cut fundraisers that they did for suicide prevention. - Oh. - It's, it's just a bunch of, it's, it's, it's like the, it's a visual map of what was supposed to happen in the series.
JVL01:01:46There's a, there's, there's some Batman sperm. Is that the Omega sign from, from Darkseid?
Sonny01:01:54- Yes, that's right. It's the life, the anti-life equation. - Darkseid. - Darkseid. You got, you got all sorts of stuff on here. Onward in, and on the back, there's a, there's, there's a quote from, can you guys see it?
Vic01:02:07- All the gods. Yeah, turn around. Let's Joseph Campbell. That's great. All the gods, all the heavens, all the hells are within you.
Sonny01:02:15- That's right. Think about it. Think about that fellas. - Man, that's deep. That depth, depth there.
JVL01:02:20- That's deep.
Sonny01:02:22- Release the Snyder cut again.
JVL01:02:24- Make it longer.
Sonny01:02:26- I'll take a six hour version.
Vic01:02:28- That's what, that's, that's what the doctor told me.
Sonny01:02:33- I'm sure.
Vic01:02:33- Make it longer.
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