Vic00:00:00Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of the Sub-Beacon. I'm Victor Matus along with Sonny Bunch and subbing again for Jonathan V. Last is our friend and former boss, Matt Continetti, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and author of the right, The Hundred Year War for America. American conservatism in bookstores now and on Amazon. I like to just say on bookstores because that's really what they used to say, right?
Guest00:00:38Bookstores, Amazon and Barnes and Noble.
Vic00:00:41And oh, most importantly, I would say most importantly on Barnes and Noble. Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is now available through Patreon. Go to subbeacon.com. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe. Tell your friends. So this week we are continuing with Tokyo Vice on HBO Max. And it's rather appropriate and we're very fortunate to have on again on the show, Matt, because, well, Matt has some background in this. And so, first of all, Matt, I hope you had a nice weekend. Thanks for coming back on the show.
Guest00:01:16Happy to be here. Always a pleasure. You know, it's funny when you mentioned that I was your former boss. Now it seems that the relationship is reversed. You know, I'm coming on. You guys are in charge. This is your show, Matt. My world. Yeah. So I have to, you know, and actually it's since we're speaking about Japan and Japanese culture, that would mean that I am the, you know, I'm the subordinate.
Vic00:01:41That's right. I have to be very deferential to you. And I am the, what does that make me? The sensei? No, what do they call it? The hentai? No, that's something else. I think the senpai. The senpai. Senpai. Hentai. Senpai. It sounds the same. It sounds the same.
Guest00:01:54Or you're my oyabun, as they would say in Tokyo. Oyabun, yes. Oyabun.
Vic00:01:59And the yaliko senpai. That's that. So, Matt, I have to tell you, again, it's great that you're on the show with us because I watch the show Tokyo Vice and I keep saying to myself, this could have been you. This could have been your life.
Guest00:02:10It could have been. The show is based on a book, Tokyo Vice, by Jake Edelstein, who was a reporter, an American who is an expat in Japan.
Vic00:02:21No, I was actually talking about, you know, being a hostess is what I meant.
Guest00:02:24Oh, not a member of the Yakuza?
Vic00:02:27You'd be good. You could sing up there, do a little bit of karaoke. Yeah, well, or some champagne.
Guest00:02:32There are some hints, at least in the episodes that I've watched of the LGBT community in a little bit. But yeah, so I don't know how the hostess bars work.
Vic00:02:42A little bit. And also, this is also late 90s, which is interesting. But again, sorry to interrupt. You were saying because this is I was just trying to lay out the premise of the show.
Guest00:02:52But you're right. The companion bars matter a lot. Anyway, he he goes there and he starts reporting for a Japanese newspaper. Or Shinboon. And he gets wrapped up in the organized crime beat. So he produced a book called Tokyo Vice on which the series is based. And what's interesting is that in my trip to Japan in 2018, of course, I asked my translator and guide to take me to all the bookstores. That's what I wanted to see. But one of the biggest bookstores in Tokyo, I get a copy of Tokyo Vice. So when I found out that it was going to be a show on HBO Max, I was like, oh, this is great. And. And Ken Watanabe is going to be in it, you know. So I'm hooked. And then I watched the pilot and I'm saying, this is incredible. And it's only then that I realized it's a Michael Mann joint.
Sonny00:03:40Yeah.
Guest00:03:40It's only then that I was like, hold it. You know, now I know it's Michael Mann. So this is a show that's basically made for me. Yes. And on several levels. Yes.
Vic00:03:52It's interesting. You know, I when I first watched it, I didn't realize it was based on this book because you kind of end. Jonathan was saying the same thing where, you know, it seemed almost implausible that he could pull this off. But I guess he actually did. Jake Adelstein, he actually immersed himself. And it is unusual, yes, to have a guy gin as a reporter in a newspaper. Whereas for us, we have people of all different nationalities in the United States working at anywhere in a newspaper or wherever. But there that was very unusual for an American to be there, wasn't it?
Guest00:04:28Well, I think it still. I mean, you know, immigration is not a big thing in Japan. They're starting to open it up a little bit. But the idea that you would have a Westerner live in Japan, but also work for one of the Tokyo's major newspapers is very, very rare. One of the things I love, though, about the show is how his editor, his immediate superior, is Korean. And so they're showing how she's navigating both cultures. And the relationship, of course, the tortured relationship between Japan and Korea. Yes, that's right. So there's that population.
Vic00:05:07She has it double because she's a woman and she's Korean. And so there are multiple standards.
Guest00:05:13So she has to navigate that. I mean, the thing that makes us such compelling TV, in my view, is there are so many good characters. Oh, yeah. It's just it's just it's to me, it's very reminiscent of Deadwood. Not in the sense that every almost every person you see on the screen has a story. And you can kind of see where they're coming from and what what their baggage is, but also what their goals are. And it's just very clear early on. And so the show is the interplay of these characters as they're as they're working amidst what I think is just, you know, the coolest city in the world, Tokyo. Yeah. Endlessly interesting.
Sonny00:05:51Well, I mean, that's that's my favorite thing about the show is that it really does feel like a travelogue in a way. Like it's not not in the way that. What's it the Scarlett Johansson movie with Lost in Translation, not not like Lost in Translation, where you're kind of hitting the big sites. Right. It feels much more like this is going to places where people know, sadly, no. But you're going to places where people actually go and live and work and hang out, which is which is interesting to me. It's also just a great food porn, clothing porn, watch porn porn sort of show. I mean, it is. We'll we'll get to Vick's porn. Yeah, that's just a lot. Oh, there's porn. We'll get we'll get to that in a second.
Vic00:06:32But I mean, it makes you want to drink whiskey, Japanese whiskey at a bar. So they don't. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Although I bet you I mean, their preference, they seem to well, like in many kind of clubs, they're obsessed with champagne and the Louis Trez and drink that. And I'm sure they would rather prefer drinking, you know, scotch versus Japanese. But it's still that thing. You just want to be there hanging out there. And did you ever think about doing that? It's Matt, like full immersion, like when you were in school, when you were at Columbia because you studied Japanese. Did you think about do they have a study abroad like you could go to Sofia?
Guest00:07:09Oh, there's so many different programs. And, you know, it's funny, I studied Japanese beginning in the eighth grade and I continued it through college. But the first time I ever went to Japan was in twenty eighteen. Yeah. As an adult. And I, I did have the sense of, oh, my. Life could have gone in a very different direction if I had taken the time to really go there earlier in my life and really become fluent in the language. You know, even in this show, watching it, I can pick up certain things, expressions or words that I don't need to look at the subtitles.
Vic00:07:46Oh, that's interesting.
Guest00:07:47But but to really know the language and especially to read it and the kanji, the Chinese characters that are that are incorporated in Japanese would take so much work. And yeah, it'd be very different. I mean, I don't know. I wouldn't be appearing on this podcast, you know, or I would be doing it as an expert in Kurosawa or something.
Sonny00:08:07Just just imagine if you if you never got to be friends with Vic Mattis. If I had never gone to the Weekly Standard, life would be very different.
Vic00:08:15It would be very different. How sad that would have been.
Guest00:08:17I'd be living, you know, in some Japanese village, the daimyo of that village and with all these very pleasant peasant life. Yes, geishas serving. Eating me and eating the cuisine. Yeah, like Bruce Willis and Looper, basically. It's like, yeah, kind of that.
Vic00:08:37OK, so you really like a lot and Sonny, that's China. We're all we're all basically caught up. I think we're just a few episodes ahead of Matt. Yeah, I think I finished the six.
Sonny00:08:47Well, I'm I'm all I'm up through seven. So, you know, the show just it's it's only eight episodes and the eighth is out already. So people some people will have finished by the time. They are. They are listening to this.
Vic00:09:01It's all that you say.
Sonny00:09:02It's only eight episodes. Only eight episodes on my understanding. So we're we're right. We're right near the end. I know. I love this show. I love I love how I love the thematic concern with debts, because that is like what the that's what the action that's what like the under undercurrent for all of the action in the show is. I mean, the thing that Jake is trying to uncover is a story about why why these people who have taken out huge loans they couldn't pay off have killed themselves and as the show goes along. We learn that the Yakuza has basically set up these loan shark operations and when people can't pay them off, the the the people who default to kill themselves and the money goes to the Yakuza. That's like the the the the basic plot. But it's it's that is almost so tertiary to the actual story that it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't matter so much. It just gives you kind of it's like it's making the subtext of everything else the actual text, because, you know, the other. There there are other debts. Right. The at one point, Ken Watanabe warns Jake not to, you know, get in to not take a favor from the Yakuza boss who he is has been working with kind of to to get information. The female lead, you know, we find out about her, why she is in Japan and what will happen. I don't want I don't want to spoil it for Matt, but like we. We we we we learn that she has a financial debt of her own that is also kind of criminal in nature. And she is she cannot she cannot have that exposed or she will be forced to leave the country and she'll she'll have to go back to America where she has nothing. She's built a whole life for herself here and she has to kind of live with this this lie and this the shame somehow. And it is it just the it is. It is, as Matt says, all of the characters. Feel lived in. They feel like they have their own existence off the screen. You can imagine them doing things when they're not on camera, which is the the hallmark of a of a good show like this. And I'm curious to see how I've not watched the eighth episode yet. I'm curious to see how they wrap it up and also be if there will be another season after this, because I think it's only scheduled as a limited series right now. But I don't I don't know if they'll.
Vic00:11:29In the in the book, does it sort of end where you think it's like where we are in the series or is it like a series of different stories?
Guest00:11:38Well, I think it's a story of his and I haven't read the entirety of the book, but, you know, he's telling his experiences and I think there's obviously some drama dramatization that's sure. Sure. Which to me, I mean, my sense of the story is that it's made for multiple seasons because it's kind of set up as a police procedural. Yeah, it's like almost like the Japanese wire. The question is for me, one, the availability of the stars, right, and then two, the cost, because I imagine it must cost quite a bit of money to film in Tokyo with this with this type of cast. And so I, you know, I don't like making this comparison, but I've been thinking a lot about Deadwood as I watch the show. And, especially because the Samantha character reminds me a lot of Joni Stubbs from Deadwood, kind of a madam character who's trying to get a life of her own and but then you also have the lawman character, you have bad guys, of course, Deadwood only lasted three seasons because of the expense, you know, and just kind of the ongoing complexity, but it made for excellent TV. I want to say one other thing about yeah, Ansel Elgort, who, you know, everyone we can
Vic00:12:59keep on forgetting his name, but that's his name.
Guest00:13:01Yeah, he's a funny, he's a very funny actor, you know, and I've had the same thought watching this show that I had watching him in Baby Driver, which is he should have been cast as Han Solo. I don't know.
Vic00:13:16Oh, like in the young Han Solo.
Guest00:13:17I don't know why he wasn't cast as a young Han Solo in them. He has that kind of, it's an awkward, an awkward charm that Harrison Ford had at that age. And he looks like Harrison Ford because he's tall and lanky. And instead, they cast that Alden Aaronic guy who's short, and not that charming. And so it's always been a mystery to me. But watching this again, I was just like, this guy should be Han Solo, I mean, he kind of does. I don't think personally, if I met him as a person, I would like him at all. But the roles he plays, well, he are very, very charismatic.
Vic00:13:59It's interesting, because as the show progresses, I find myself less and less liking him, and more and more liking Sato, who is the up-and-coming.
Guest00:14:08Oh, well, he's great. That actor is amazing, too. He just imprints himself on you in the first episode. And then I just watched the fourth episode, which I just watched, it's all about the Backstreet Boys.
Vic00:14:23Oh, it's fantastic.
Guest00:14:24And the discourse on, you know, I want him that way. Yeah, which we all had at the time, you know, I mean, that was, and then the bringing up NSYNC and everything. He too, he has a great charisma.
Vic00:14:38He's great. And I actually, and I feel more of a connection to him. I relate to him a lot.
Guest00:14:43Well, you two look so much alike.
Vic00:14:45Well, yeah, we project that sort of fear. Smoldering. You dress the same way, too. Just the same way.
Sonny00:14:50You have the same fashion sense.
Vic00:14:51Oh, this cape-made t-shirt here that's like faded. Thank you. Yeah, it's the same one I've been wearing since the last show. You're I've been in this basement for days, the, but, but, and then of course, well, you don't know this, but I hate to give it away, but then, you know, he has a relationship with a girl, the girl and, and, you know, Asian man, white girl that's rarely depicted. And I feel like it's an injustice. It is an injustice because we are out there. We are the triumphant.
Sonny00:15:20This is represent. This is representation for you.
Guest00:15:22What you're saying is you're seeing yourself on the screen, you feel seen when you watch
Vic00:15:28Tokyo. You know, these frigging commercials and they always try to be like, oh, we're going to be diverse and we're going to have, you know, different ethnicities and it's always, always like white dude, Asian woman. And I'm like, yeah, I know what's going on there. No, it's the other way. You know what? We we're here to w don't ignore us. Don't ignore us. We're here.
Sonny00:15:46You know, we're not erasure. You know, it's, you're tired of the, the Asian man, white female erasure.
Vic00:15:50Yes. The other. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Thank you, Sonny. No. So I really like him. I like him more. And I, I, I find. I find Jake gets a little bit douchier, but I'll be interested to see Matt, uh, what you think when you, uh, finally complete it. Um, I really enjoyed the cool cop.
Sonny00:16:07Yeah. The, the, the cop. Oh yeah.
Guest00:16:10He's great. Oh, he is the cool cop. Oh man. Yeah. The vice cop. Yeah. Kind of the, um, the Don Johnson character.
Vic00:16:17Right. Yes. And I mentioned, and I mentioned this in the last time we talked about Tokyo vice has said, I, there's something going on going on with him. I want to know what's going on and there is something going on and it's interesting. So, uh, anyway, I'm just going to say that. I, I have some questions, uh, for Matt and so, and since you've been to Japan, you know, I was supposed to go on that trip. Mine got canceled and you went, I remember that you remember that I would have loved
Guest00:16:40to have gone with you.
Vic00:16:41That would have been, um, that was a lot of fun. Well, we would have been to one of those clubs, maybe, you know, the one with the merry go round and the polls and then there's like anime in the background. Okay. Um, is Japan really that clean? Because if so, I'm moving there.
Guest00:16:57The answer is yes. Oh, I mean, it's amazing to go to Tokyo. I mean, just unlike any city I've been in, in the United States or even in Europe.
Vic00:17:08Yeah. I assume it's because they pride themselves in that. They pride themselves in being a clean, so he's looking at this, a clean, they're clean people. They bathe. There's these, they, they, they bathe a lot. You know, there's all these scenes where they're, you know, they're lots of careful.
Guest00:17:24The Japanese are very serious about ritual ritual.
Vic00:17:26Thank you, man. Thank you.
Sonny00:17:28For the record. This is Victorino Matus, our Filipino American asking, they seem like a very close here. They, they, they, you know, they're very asking about the clean people really get to that
Vic00:17:39thing. The cleanliness. Okay. Uh, have you ever been, did you know, I didn't know about these hostess clubs because I just assumed they're like strip clubs, but they're not strip clubs. Uh, and there are some similarities, there seems to be some sort of a bottle service thing that goes on there, but it's not overt like, okay, and you pay this and you'll take
Guest00:17:58it to the back room, Matt, uh, no, no, it's not like that. Uh, but I was aware of that and they're all over the place. If you go to a Shinjuku, you know, uh, entertainment district, uh, you'll see these places. Um, and yeah, you go and just as Samantha says in the, in the first episode or so you keep buying and she'll keep talking and that, and that's the, that's really the largely
Vic00:18:27the arrangement. Is that that you're paying for their company or companionship for a company?
Guest00:18:33I mean, remember this is the same culture where I don't know if you've seen the headline recently of the man who married the anime character because people were saying it was
Vic00:18:40me.
Sonny00:18:41Yeah.
Vic00:18:42Yeah.
Sonny00:18:43Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was very, so there's a, it did. It did call to mind the Victorino Mattis.
Vic00:18:48No, I, you know, but if she's fake, I need something more tangible, like more synthetic. We had several versions of her in the images I saw.
Guest00:18:56Yeah. A pillow. Yeah. Like this kind. Yes. And so, yeah.
Vic00:19:02So there's a, you know, that, that sense that.
Guest00:19:03I heard, I heard, yeah. You would want to be, you're also being, you know, respected by these companions, right? They're deferring to you that as she says, they're lighting your cigarette, they always pour the bottle. Yes. You are number one in this situation. And so for, in such a hierarchical society, this allows you the opportunity to be number one, right? In other contexts, especially in your employment context, you may or you're probably at the
Vic00:19:35bottom. You could be boss. Yeah. And you know how, how they really kicked down and they're the, you know, you can be really, really mean bosses. We see. And I'm sure that's a, that that's true about, well, I'm sure some of your ancestors would
Guest00:19:46have comments on that. Yes.
Vic00:19:48From about 80 years ago. That's true. Yes. Yeah. Not very kind. Uh, not a very kind and understanding some, well, you hear stories in any event, uh, that that's interesting. Okay. Also, uh, I heard, I heard that that's not really welcoming to foreigners. These hostess clubs, like, you know, like tourists, not necessarily like walk in.
Guest00:20:07Well, yeah. I've never been in one.
Vic00:20:09Um, I imagine you have to be dressed up and look classy.
Guest00:20:14I really don't know. But I do, you know, I mean, Edelstein obviously went and, um, in fact, uh, Josh Rogan, a reporter at the Washington post who I'm close to, he knows Edelstein, um, and, uh, from his time in Japan. And, um, uh, so I, I do think I gene that foreigners can go, but yeah, you might have to, it might be awkward, really interesting, you know, um, uh, at first I, but I've never been, I mean, my, you know, you know, me, you're going to the bookstores, see the bookstores, you know, and the food that was, that's the other thing, man, does it ever get, does the
Vic00:20:49food get old? Do you ever like, oh, that's it. I'm so done with it. Or no, you enjoyed it every step of the way.
Guest00:20:53I think sushi can sometimes, you know, it's like after your 15th piece of eel or something, you know, you might want to do other things, but the, but the, the amazing thing about Japanese cuisine is there's so many different types, you know, so many varieties. It's not just sushi. There's so much more. Noodles. Yeah. Noodles or the, uh, the yakitori or the, you know, or, um, teriyaki.
Vic00:21:18It all looks so neat and it's very nicely presented and everything.
Guest00:21:22And then, you know, there was that scene in the fourth episode I just watched where, um, uh, they, they go to a Chinese restaurant. Oh, yeah. And that looked great too. All right. Cause there's, they serve Peking duck and everything. Yeah.
Vic00:21:33The Peking duck. Fancy. The fancy restaurant. Yeah. Um, okay. Uh, next question is, um, uh, how common are these, um, these rental rooms? What, what is that? Did you get to that scene yet?
Guest00:21:46And you're asking me as though I have firsthand experience, Vic. Vic needs a guide.
Vic00:21:51You need a guide. Matt, first of all, let me remind you, this is the boat, you know, you know, the kind of tourism that I do. And, uh, that's the first thing. The second thing is, um, uh, uh, I've already lost my train of thought here. Uh, no, the, the, these rooms, um, you didn't get to that episode. I'm sorry. So you haven't got it, but no, no, no. Oh, you did.
Guest00:22:13I watched that episode. So you know what I'm talking about. So here's my question. Sato pays those girls. Yes. They are prostitutes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And so th that line right between what say Samantha and her coworkers do, and then actual prostitution is, is, is I think very clear, at least, at least in these first four episodes. Yeah. Right. I mean, um, so the girls that Sato and Jake go to the, uh, rent a room with, you know, those, they clearly, they are call girls, whereas what Samantha is doing is something very different. Right. Um, and there's not some, but sometimes maybe it blurs, there's not some hidden tip because
Vic00:22:56you know, then they, they do have sugar daddies, you know? Paulina does, and this is an interesting other thread.
Guest00:23:00Well, right. But she's, she's going elsewhere. Yeah. That's right. So it's, it's a very complicated kind of thing. And you even see that in the interaction, again, I, I just love that, um, I'm just looking up her, her name of the, um, the sub-editor.
Vic00:23:14The sub-cap. Yeah.
Guest00:23:16Amy. Amy. Amy. Yeah. Yeah. Amy's son. Played by, uh, Rinko Kikuchi. Yeah. She's fantastic. And you saw that when she's interacting, again, in this, just this fourth episode I watched where, with some of the detectives trying to find out more. And one of the detectives keeps placing his hand on her thigh. Yes. But she starts saying, oh, remember, how is your daughter doing? Yes. Is she doing well? And then he feels a sense of shame. It takes it off.
Sonny00:23:39Shame. You know? So. Yeah. So that, I mean. Vic does not, not familiar with that. Sexual relationship. What did you say, Sonny? Hand. Yeah. Shame.
Guest00:23:50Shame. You're not familiar with that. That's, you know.
Vic00:23:53Yeah. You're just like, ah. Yeah. I'm like.
?00:23:57You can learn something from this show.
Guest00:23:57I need to get over that. I need a ticket.
Vic00:23:59That's right. You know, and again, so they're like hourly rates and then they have different kinds of rooms and it's like.
Guest00:24:04I mean, Vic, you can find an hourly rate motel down route one if you want. You don't have to go far. It's called.
Vic00:24:10I don't know why you're so interested. It's called the Americana. But it doesn't have the same. There are a few of them. You just drive down there on your way down.
Guest00:24:16You liked the decor in this. Yes.
Vic00:24:19That's the thing.
Guest00:24:20Yes. I think it was really quaint.
Vic00:24:22They have a whole. They had themes, you know. They had themes.
Guest00:24:25That's right. It's fascinating. Right. That's the the idea you will create the special do you do even for something so lowly as this sex.
Vic00:24:35Do you do you have other thoughts on on on Tokyo Vice and again, because you were there and anything else?
Guest00:24:43Only I love the show and I do think it does. As Sonny was kind of saying, it does give you a it's a travelogue. I mean, you see places kind of holes in the wall, the alleys in Tokyo that are just filled with restaurants and shops and just, you know. Some of my favorite scenes are just him commuting on the highways or going down the streets, you know, and seeing these different places. I just think it's great show.
Vic00:25:09Okay. Yeah. Sonny, you have any other thoughts? No. Okay. I was going to say the only thing I really could have used is like a chart that explains you remember the Sopranos and the FBI guys would have it on the wall and they'd say who's the boss? Because I'm getting confused. And for example, the the old man. From the Chihara Kai Yakuza family. And then there's the the guy who I think he has prostate cancer. He's sick. He's the younger guy for the head of Tozawa's, you know, that he has problems in the bedroom, you know, that guy. Right. I saw him get it. Yes. You saw that when he in the doctor had to, you know, there's there's something going on with him. I thought they were father and son.
Sonny00:25:54No, they're not that they look. I don't think so. Similar. They have different names.
Vic00:26:00Yeah, but they look the life.
Sonny00:26:02An org chart would be helpful. I agree with that. You're saying that all the Yakuza look alike. He didn't say that. I'm sure it's fine. Is that what you're saying?
Vic00:26:11I'm sure it's fine.
Comments
Loading…