#104. 'Tokyo Vice' (HBO Max)
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A short bonus episode (Vic opens with a quick Easter Monday check-in) digging into the first three episodes of Tokyo Vice on HBO Max, based on journalist Jake Adelstein's memoir about an American reporter covering the yakuza for a Tokyo newspaper in the late 1990s. Sonny, who's furthest along, is largely won over — he loves the journalism-procedural details, calls it "a great show for just watching people eating," and admires how strikingly Michael Mann shot the pilot he executive produced and directed, though he notes the later episodes settle into flat shot-reverse-shot coverage once Mann hands off directing duties. JVL agrees the pilot looks incredible but is skeptical the show can sustain a real Mann-style gangster story since it's based on a true memoir rather than invented plot, and he compares its fish-out-of-water, white-savior dynamics to Gung Ho; Vic, meanwhile, revels in the newsroom entrance-exam scene and inverted-pyramid style-manual bit, likening the premise to Black Rain and Rush Hour. All three are baffled by star Ansel Elgort's baby face ("he looks like he's 16"), debate why his character would choose journalism in Japan over America, and are united in hating the unconvincing CGI self-immolation fire in the recent episode's closing scene, which Sonny says nearly soured him on the whole series. The episode wraps with JVL announcing a new side project — a watch website with writer Ed Condon — and the trio riffing on "Big Watch" sponsorship and Swatch's blue-staining Moonswatch controversy.
From the show notes
Michael Mann's back! And he's off to Japan.
Full transcript
Vic00:00:00Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of the Sub-Beacon. I'm Victor Manus along with Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is now available through Patreon. Please go to subbeacon.com. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe. Tell your friends. Happy Easter Monday. I hope you all have a great day. I hope you all had a nice weekend. For some of us, we can now go back to eating meat on Friday. Not that it was too hard. You can always get things like eggs, meatless pasta, pizza, even sushi. Speaking of which, today we're talking about Tokyo Vice on HBO Max. What is going on? Who created this show? Because I know it's directed, the first episode, which I saw, was directed by Michael Mann. Is this a Michael Mann creation or is this somebody else?
Sonny00:00:55Yeah, he's the executive producer here. He's not the showrunner. I don't think. I don't think he is. He is making every minute call, but he did direct the first one. He's an executive producer. It's funny. So you guys only watched the first episode, right?
Vic00:01:10I did, but I actually want to watch the next episode. Is it coming out in winning time or is it all out?
Sonny00:01:16There's three episodes out right now. There's three episodes on HBO Max and I think it's every Thursday. Every Thursday is when new episodes are coming out.
Vic00:01:26So Sonny, what is the genesis of this? What did this come from?
Sonny00:01:30So it's based on a book by a Western journalist who was in Japan. It's a true story.
JVL00:01:37Oh, that explains. I have questions.
Sonny00:01:39It's a true-ish story. I wouldn't say it's...
JVL00:01:41The author's name is Jake. He is an American who went to Tokyo to write, join a newspaper and write about crime. And then he spent 20 years following the big crime stories in Japan. Honestly, I loved everything about this first episode until I went and... Tried reading up on it and found that it was from, like, a true book. Because then I just realized, oh, so this won't be, like, a single linear story. It's going to be basically a bunch of vignettes about a guy's career. You know, it can't tell us the actual, like, an actual Michael Mann gangster story. It can't tell us that because he won't have that.
Sonny00:02:20I'm not 100% sure if this is supposed to be an ongoing series or a limited series.
JVL00:02:27I think it's limited.
Sonny00:02:28So I think it's limited. So, I mean, I do think that there's a discreet story that they are going to be telling about this loan-sharking Yakuza company.
Vic00:02:38Well, I mean, it's a very intense opening for a movie with not a lot of action per se. It certainly sort of drew me in because it's so, you know. But strikingly shot.
Sonny00:02:49It's shot like nothing else on TV. Yes, it's very intense. Because it's shot by Michael Mann. So it's very funny to watch the first episode and then watch the next couple of episodes.
JVL00:02:59The episodes are pretty standard drama TV shows.
Sonny00:03:05A lot of like, you know, I saw somebody tweet this. I don't want to steal it, but I'm just going to steal it. You know, in the first episode, it's like lots of negative space and kind of like interesting off-kilter close-up shots. And, you know, jittery handheld stuff that's not actually jittery, just a little bit, you know, shaky. And it's like it has like a very personal feel to it. And then the second episode is just a bunch of like wide shot, shot, reverse shot, shot, reverse shot, which is unfortunate.
Vic00:03:37So it's not like a different famous director every time, like Winning Time, you know, how it was Jonah Hill directing or, you know, whatever.
Sonny00:03:42No, no, no, no. OK. Unfortunately not. No, but the other two episodes are good. And the best thing about this show, from my perspective, again, as a as a journalist, is the like journalism in Japan stuff. There is he. So the basic setup. Here is that this this guy, Jake, he he takes an intense, rigorous test to become a a cub reporter. Oh, yes.
Vic00:04:09You want to give like just a big boy review for a mini a mini boy, mini, mini, big boy, small boy.
Sonny00:04:15And he is he's kind of like lost in the shuffle of of he's the first he's the first Westerner to work at this big, you know, Japanese newspaper. He is trying to figure out, you know, how to how to work his way around while also. Being the guy, John, that all the, you know, old school racist Japanese editors.
Vic00:04:35Well, and then the other interesting thing is this is 1997. Yes.
Sonny00:04:39Yeah. It's late mid to late 90s. Yeah. A 98. I don't know. But but but around then. Yeah. Yeah. So it's that that's the basic setup here. The story revolves around him trying to break a story about how the Yakuza is. Uh, engaging in a, you know, territorial war, but also like preying upon the people of Tokyo. At one point, I think it's in the first episode. Maybe it's in the second episode. At one point, he says, I want to learn what's happening underneath the city. I want to I want to know, like the systems underneath the city that make the city actually work. And the whole point of the newspaper industry, at least this is what we're led to believe, is to cover that up, is to not to not talk about the murders. You know, in Japan, there are no murders. There are no murders in Tokyo. Right. There is a it's it's a it is you are just supposed to you are just supposed to be a stenographer for what the police want you to say. And and he's trying to get underneath that. You know, he's a little white savior complex here. You know, I wrote down white.
Vic00:05:45I had a white savior question.
JVL00:05:47It's it's gung ho. Yeah. Yeah. Right. He's uptight. Japanese reporters don't know how to report. Yeah. Yeah. Let me show you.
Sonny00:05:56They need an American.
Vic00:05:57Notice because he asks. He. Asks what what about the why can we add where where in the news story do I put in the why because I know why and I'm going to tell you if there's if there's room and there won't be room and I love I do love I do love it is it is a good journalism movie. Yeah, I don't it's like it's like Japanese spotlight or something. I don't know people who are outside of journalism if they would find it as interesting. I was the entrance exam scene. The first thing I wrote, I said, so I just so you tell me that their journals are. Also better than our journalists because I'm looking at this.
Sonny00:06:31I'm like, wow, well, the whole point is that they're not I got right, you know, I got a.
JVL00:06:37Got to hold up a flag here. Yes, because JBL it is possible. So Victorino, you did not like everything everywhere. All no, I guess it's all multiverse and everything is just bullshit because you just waving whatever to me. Everything everywhere all at once is a much more realistic movie than this because this posits a world. Which people line up by the hundreds to take a test to get into journalism, journalism, right?
Vic00:07:05Okay.
JVL00:07:05And then it was like an interesting journalism. The papers wants to not publish anything sensational and discourage people from reporting.
Vic00:07:15Yeah.
JVL00:07:16I mean, maybe it's because I know maybe this is true. Maybe in Japan, that's how it really is.
Vic00:07:20Well, as you just mentioned, this is a book I really like to know because are, were the newspapers at that time, are they still because. Of the, the fear of the yukuza. Are they really like that where they're just basically in their pockets?
JVL00:07:33Because I gotta say you didn't buy it again. Maybe it's true. Yeah. Maybe that's how it really is, but without knowing for sure, like seeing with my own eyes and putting my hands into the side of the Japanese New York times to feel how vapid it is. I find this, this premise that this is how journalism works in Japan to be much less believable than a multiverse.
Vic00:07:57Well, what's yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I know.
JVL00:07:59Taking tests to get into journalism.
Vic00:08:01Well, that could be true, but what I wonder how that works, not only that, but that he aced it missing still like half the page. Like he forgot to fill out a page. Uh, what is the name? It's the Meichi Meicho Shimbun, right? So Japanese New York, it's a Japanese, it's a Japanese newspaper, but it's supposed to be, and Tokyo times. That's right. Uh, and there are other Asahi Shimbun is a real one Yomiuri, but, uh, so this is supposed to be theirs. Um, I did like. When they go in and, uh, they have a style manual, which would look thick and also because you see that like shrunken white is yeah, I know. And it's like, what else is in there? I want to know, uh, you know, what am I missing out on?
JVL00:08:42And the other 500 characters, not 500 words. You get 500 characters.
Vic00:08:45And then she, uh, and then she explains the basic inverted pyramid in Japanese, which was great, except for the part of the Y, but again, that's your opinion. It's not an op-ed. It's a very millennial. It's not millennial. Well, whoever, you know, the guy is that I don't know. I gotta put my opinion in there. I, you know, it's like, it's like a young, uh, uh, a kid who used to, uh, work at the beacon.
JVL00:09:06He doesn't, uh, I shouldn't get into this, but anyway, he doesn't work there anymore. And the one thing he's asking about opinion, I think he's just trying to connect dots and stories. So I think when he's talking about why, what he meant isn't like, I want to tell people opinion, but like, uh, so, so this guy who's been, who's been murdered, the reason he was murdered was because he was, you know, had loaning. Borrowing money from the Yakuza or something. And they're telling, we don't, we don't do that. Right. Uh, I, I, I thought it was beautiful to look at and I loved it. Uh, but what I want is something that is like the Japanese for cross between damages and justified. And because this is a true story or based on true story, I do not believe that the show is going to be able to deliver that to me longterm. And so I'll find out. But again, because I guess I'll lower my expectations for the next episode. Don't fucking promise me Ken Watanabe with the first four minutes and then not give me Ken Watanabe for the next hour. Because that's like saying like, Hey, we've got Tom Cruise, this gigantic movie star, you know, and then, oh, now he's gone.
Vic00:10:15No, I, and that's when I got the sense because hardly anything else happens per se. He's in it.
Sonny00:10:19He's in it much more in the second and third episode. It's a slow burn.
Vic00:10:22I also wonder what's going to happen to the, uh, other crime reporter. Who's like the, the macho. Uh, guy, because, uh, you know, if, if we're looking at the beginning of the episode, it's sort of like at the present or where they are. And then it goes back a sub a couple of years back. Um, obviously it's going to be a long series, but two, he's not there. You would think he'd be in the lead. I, I'm thinking something happened to him. Uh, I found it in, it was intriguing. They go to the dance club. I, Japan is an intriguing host country. Yes. And, and I feel like if I went there, I would miss all these things and that were, there were obviously anybody in tattoos avoid them and the women are dancing, but you got the anime in the background.
JVL00:11:05It wasn't that insane. It's insane. I saw, and I just thought to myself, man, that's a weird country.
Sonny00:11:11Awesome country.
JVL00:11:13Yeah. Great country. I love it. Intriguing huge fetish for Japan. Again, well, that's a good, I'm, I'm looking at all the watches that everybody's wearing, you know, try, how much can I blow this up on my screen? So I can see the wall clock. It's a Seiko wall clock. Yes. I saw that beautiful detail. I saw that because. Yeah, I, uh, the, you know what it's shot, it looks like a movie because it's exotic and it's being filmed. Yeah. And it's like, is it like bleached or something? There's like that bluish tint.
Sonny00:11:40Well, he loves that. He loves the blue tint. His color timing is always to blue.
Vic00:11:45The one thing I did not like yet again, fake fire.
Sonny00:11:49Yeah. Well, I was going to say the last scene I was with, I was with the look of the show the whole way up until that last scene.
JVL00:11:56And I was like, I thought that.
Sonny00:11:58Christopher Nolan would have lit that guy on fire.
JVL00:12:01And then became fake fire. So I thought that the, the, like the, the first shot of that is real was real, like was a practical effect. And then by the end, it was clearly not practical anymore.
Sonny00:12:15I don't, I don't know exactly what they did. I mean, it's, it's a hard effect to do with an actual person because the way most fire stunts work is that you have a guy in a suit, right? With like fireproof jelly on him and he has to move right to keep the fire off. Of him. So like, you have to move to keep the flame going behind you. It keeps it off your face and off, off your body. And then once you're done, you fall to the ground and they get you. But if you're, if you are just committing suicide, you know, Tibetan monk style, if you're just laying, sitting there on the ground and, and you can't do that sort of thing. So I thought I, I was, uh, I was distressed by how bad that sequence, it almost, it almost like turned me off of the whole series, honestly.
JVL00:12:55Yeah.
Sonny00:12:56Cause I was like, this is, this is why is it that we track?
JVL00:12:58We can put a man on the moon, but we can't make CGI fire look right. Right, right, right. What is the, why is this the uncanny valley? For a scene of self-immolation.
Sonny00:13:07Why can't we find, why can't we find like a, you know, somebody on death row who wants to give it, give, give one up for the cause.
Vic00:13:13That is a horrible way to go. Sonny, that's terrible. I'm telling you, it's a horrible way. Oh, come on, I'm joking, I'm joking. It's a horrible way to go.
Sonny00:13:19Uh, yeah, of course it is. No, I mean, I just think it, I just think it's like, it is very frustrating. It's very frustrating to, to watch a show that looks that good and then have that last. I, the, the thing that's most frustrating about it is that you have to know that it doesn't look good if you're Michael Mann.
JVL00:13:35Yeah.
Sonny00:13:35Like, if you're Michael Mann, you have to be like, this doesn't work, let's do something else.
JVL00:13:39It must just be like, the insurance regs have just said it. Yeah, that's right, the insurance regs. We will not write you a policy for this. Use the CGI, it's cheaper.
Sonny00:13:46Or just, just don't have that shot. Yeah, just don't have that shot.
Vic00:13:49Just have the, have the shot from behind.
JVL00:13:50Yeah, I would have been fine with that.
Sonny00:13:51You know, I, eh.
JVL00:13:53Yeah, I'm with you. I'll tell you, I'll tell you this. The, uh, the gentleman who plays James. Jake. The guy, Jen.
Vic00:14:00El, Elgort. Ansel Elgort. From, from the Fault in Our Stars.
JVL00:14:05Who is, who is both an actor, a singer, and a DJ. Uh, I'll tell you this. He's a renaissance. At my, uh, at my baseball game last Wednesday, there were a minimum of three kids on this middle school team who all looked older than he is. Right. He looks like he's. No, he looks like a giant. He looks like he's 16 years old. Right, he's very tall, but he still looks like a kid.
Vic00:14:28So, that part of how.
JVL00:14:30That is a baby face.
Vic00:14:31What I, what I want to know is, you know how they jokingly call him Masad, right? They say, oh, Masad, because what's he doing? Because he's Jewish and it's so unusual that, you know, he's, he's working there and they can't believe that this guy, Jen, is working there. I like guy, Jen, but only with tits. That's right. That's right. That's a great line. That guy's great too. That's what I mean. That's the guy I'm talking about. Like, I wonder what happens to him because I bet you something bad happens. But, that is a question. What is this guy doing there? In Japan, like, he forces himself to learn the language, not just, which is not just like going to like when I, you know, when I go to like Germany or whatever, you know, I mean, it's still the same letters as here, you know, but, but the characters and the, you know, the, you know, the kanji and the whole deal. And then, and then speaking it and then wanting to be, it's hard enough to be a journalist here. You're going to be a journalist there with all of their demands. Why? Why is he doing? That's the question. Why is he? Why is he there? Why not do it? Why didn't he? Why didn't he just want to be a journalist here where there are not enough jobs here?
JVL00:15:34Why they're really like watches? Yeah, I don't know.
Sonny00:15:38You know, it's a good, it's a good food and drink show, too. It is a great show for just like watching people eating.
Vic00:15:44Maybe that's why I liked it.
Sonny00:15:46I mean, like it is, it's, it's a, it's a, it is a beautiful show to look at. There, there are just like a lot of really nice things in it.
JVL00:15:54Everything in Japan looks interesting. Yes. Yeah. I am dying. This is the. One thing that I'm always, I've always been jealous of not getting a junket, too, was.
Vic00:16:03Oh, I had a junket there. This is, do you want to hear it? This is a true story. I had a junket and the guy, they had to cancel the trip for some reason. And then when the trip came up in the spring, the same guy, I don't hear from him. And then, and Matt Cotton, and he went instead. He goes, oh, I'm going home. I remember that. And I'm like, oh, who's tripping? Who's organizing it? And I'm like. Oh. Oh, good for you. But then I will say this. If anybody had to go in my place, I was happy that it was Matt because he actually took Japanese in college.
JVL00:16:38And he's basically Jake, right? Like a nice Jewish guy who really likes Japanese culture, who speaks the language.
Vic00:16:44And he could probably thrive there as well as a writer in Japanese.
JVL00:16:49He's a journalist.
Vic00:16:50Yes. Yes.
JVL00:16:51But I find that puzzling why he's there. The lead character in Tokyo Vice.
Vic00:16:58You mentioned Gung Ho, JVL, and I was trying to think of other movies that are like this. And the one that came to my mind while watching it was Black Rain.
JVL00:17:06Black Rain, yeah. You know.
Vic00:17:07Oh, you know, like here's how we do things. You know, you're not doing it right. But then in the end, we kind of learn from each other and then it's mutual respect. Or like Rush Hour. Yeah, Rush Hour 2. That's right. Rush Hour. No.
JVL00:17:22You're supposed to say they're not Japanese.
Vic00:17:24That's right. That's okay. That's right. That's fine. Fish out of water. East meets west. East meets west. I do. I find the language so alluring as well versus other Chinese. Versus Chinese. And it's just, it's so, the way they say things. You know how they say, I'm going to say this more often. The way they say hey. You know what hey is? Oi. That's what they say. Oi.
JVL00:17:52That's good. No, that's not fine. That's not fine.
Vic00:17:57Hey. Oi. You remember he says that. He goes, this guy wants me to tie him up and do weird shit to him. They all laugh.
JVL00:18:03That was hysterical. Yes. Show me the ropes. Hey, this guy wants me. It was fabulous.
Vic00:18:09Yes. Okay, so how long does this show go on for, Sonny?
Sonny00:18:13I honestly don't know. I think it's eight episodes, but it might be ten. All right. I should have looked it up before the show.
JVL00:18:22So I'm starting a new side project. I haven't told you guys this, but my buddy Ed Condon and I are going to start a watch website. And basically my only, because all of the watch press is bought and paid for. And what I really want is I really want Grand Seiko to fly me out to their Yokohama studio and just like get to hang out and watch them with the Zaratsu polishing.
Sonny00:18:51So you're starting this magazine in the hopes of being bought and paid for by Seiko.
Vic00:18:55I thought you were going to say that because the other publication. We're doing this, we're doing this, so we're going to be independent. Yeah, we're not taking any free watches. We don't want to be in the pocket of Big Watch. Yeah, we're no free watch. Don't send me a watch.
JVL00:19:06It's not a publication. It's me and Ed starting a little sub stack together just on the side.
Sonny00:19:10I'm starting this to get in the pocket of Big Watch.
JVL00:19:14You know what? If Big Watch wants to make an offer, we will listen.
Sonny00:19:19Yeah, if Big Watch wanted to sponsor the Sub-Beacon, we could make that work.
JVL00:19:24Yeah, come get your moon swatches. By the way, do you remember my thing about the moon swatch? Did you see that? The moon swatches with their Ceramibrite or whatever case is now like leaving blue marks on people's wrists. Like the color just wears right off on them.
Sonny00:19:41That's the mark of quality. It's the hallmark of quality right there. Yeah, that's right. The watch is part of you now.
JVL00:19:48Yeah. Anything else? I'm fine.
?00:19:58Thank you.
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