#95. 'Winning Time'
Listen to this episode ↗on Substack, where the show lives now
The main event is the first two episodes of Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty on HBO Max (which JVL insists on mischievously calling "Showtime"), Adam McKay's origin story of the 1980s Lakers. Sonny loves it — praising John C. Reilly's Jerry Buss ("Royal Tenenbaum but a good father"), Jason Clarke's surprisingly Australian-accented take on Jerry West, and Gabby Hoffmann — while griping about the show's constant, unmotivated switching between film stocks and its heavy-handed racial coding of Larry Bird vs. Magic Johnson; he also relays the juicy Esquire tidbit that McKay dangled the Jerry Buss role to Will Ferrell, then secretly cast Reilly instead, effectively ending their producing partnership. JVL is equally hooked, though he finds himself missing Reilly whenever he's off-screen and wishes for more Solomon Hughes as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar; the two also digress at length into 1980s NBA history (the Bird-Magic rivalry dating to their shared college class, the Celtics/Lakers duopoly, Jordan's globalization of the league) versus JVL's disillusionment with the modern player-empowerment era (James Harden, Ben Simmons refusing to play). Vic, who fell down a research rabbit hole on Jerry Buss and Jerry West, scores the show a Quadrant A-minus for plot, B-plus for duration, TBD on action/violence (no actual basketball yet), and an enthusiastic A+++ for sex and nudity thanks to extensive Playboy Mansion sequences. The opening third is dominated by a long "touching" bit — Sonny confesses to yelling at his three-year-old for grabbing his hoodie with mac-and-cheese hands, sparking a hugging-preferences roundtable and a nostalgic waterbed-temperature debate — plus Korean food talk (bulgogi, a Soul Spice bowl), box office notes (The Batman holding at #1 with $66.5M, Uncharted at $9.3M, a BTS concert film at $6.8M), and an extended lament over Georgetown's winless Big East season under coach Patrick Ewing. They close by teasing a Monday Oscars bonus episode and Sonny hyping the Ana de Armas erotic thriller Deep Water for Vic.
From the show notes
On this week's episode, the guys talk touching. (No touching!) Lots of box office talk. And the gang reviews the first couple of episodes of Winning Time . NOT SHOWTIME THAT IS A DIFFERENT NETWORK ALTOGETHER.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00There's two things in this world that make me believe in God. It's sex and basketball. You know?
Vic00:00:10I'm sleeping.
Guest00:00:12Her loss. I'm about to buy a team. I want to build something special. A real dynasty. But I need a partner. First pick, 1979 NBA Draft. Los Angeles Lakers select Irvin "Magic" Johnson.
Vic00:00:47Hello and welcome to another edition of the Sub-Beacon. I'm Victor Matus along with Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is now available through Patreon. Go to subbeacon.com, you'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and don't forget about the Sub-Beacon merchandise store at tpublic.com. Gentlemen, how are we? JVL, what is going on?
JVL00:01:12Too much stuff. Too much stuff. Big life stuff. Nothing interesting from me. Okay. Santino, what's going on?
Sonny00:01:20I don't think that I... So much big life stuff that I can't talk about it. It doesn't sound... But maybe we'll circle back to it in a couple of weeks.
Vic00:01:29We'll circle back to it in a few weeks. I'll have some questions. I have some questions for you. We'll come back to it. Okay. Sonny, how are you?
Sonny00:01:36I had a bad dad moment this week. I had a bad dad. Who among us? One of our... So let me just explain our seating arrangements at the dinner table, at the dinner/breakfast/lunch table, whatever, the dining room table. On one side, you have me and my three-year-old son. Who's still in a booster chair. He's strapped in, so he's a prisoner at the table. Yes. But he's not in a high chair, right? He still has pretty full mobility. And then across from me is my wife, and then diagonally from me is my six-year-old daughter. So that's the basic layout. I just want you to see this as I discuss what's happening. My three-year-old has taken to essentially eating with his hands and then grabbing me on the arm. Hmm. Yeah. While he's eating. So, you know, mac and cheese or spaghetti. Just grabbing you on the arm to get your attention or just to paw at you? Just grabbing me and, you know, "Daddy, pay attention to me." And I don't know if you guys know this about me, I don't love being touched. I'm not a ... I'm not a ... I'm not ... I'm not ...
Vic00:02:50It makes it very hard. I have questions about that.
Sonny00:02:53I'm not somebody who loves being touched. Or being pawed at. Just in general. But I especially ... You're not a hugger. You're not a hugger. And I'm not ... I'm especially ... I like ... I don't like ... I don't like being grabbed by dirty, disgusting hands. And, like, I get ... I love my kids very, very much. But the other day I was wearing ... I was wearing, like, a light-colored American giant hoodie. It's, like, my favorite thing to wear. And just, like ... And I love ... I love this piece of clothing a great deal. Not as much as my beloved children, but very, you know, if we're ranking ...
JVL00:03:33Close. Close. Close.
Sonny00:03:36One A, one B. And, you know, he had been eating ... he had been eating handfuls because he knows how to use a fork and a spoon, but he just refuses sometimes. He's just eating handfuls of, like, triple cheese, mac and cheese ... With his bare hands. With his bare hands. Literal handfuls. Literal handfuls. And reaches over and grabs my light heather gray hoodie right on the arm. And I was just like ... I just yelled, "Stop touching me!" At my three-year-old. And it was like the worst ... it's like the worst thing I've ever done, I think, to my kids because it's like ... it's not ...
Vic00:04:16I want to know about the reaction ... Physically abusive. I want to know about the reaction around the table.
Sonny00:04:21He didn't even phase it. He didn't give a shit about it. He was just like ... Oh, good for him. He didn't care. My daughter didn't really notice. Beth was like, "Don't yell at the kids." I was like, "Well, I try not to." I put up with a lot of grabs. So anyway, long story short, I take the hoodie off. I immediately throw it in the wash. Didn't come out, did it? It came out fine.
JVL00:04:47Came out fine.
Sonny00:04:48Oh, good. Came out fine. And so the next day we're eating spaghetti or whatever. Same thing, just handfuls of spaghetti. And I thought to myself, "I should really take my hoodie off before I eat dinner with the family." And I didn't. And same thing, just reaches over and grabs me again. And I was just like, "You got to be ..." Because I've just done all the laundry. I've just done all the laundry and I'm just like, "God damn it." So I just put that in all by itself and wash it. And again, it comes out. It comes out. And as I'm looking at this dry ... As I'm looking at the hoodie as it's dry, I look down kind of in the bottom and I notice that all of this was for naught. All of this was for naught anyway. Because two days prior, I had been cooking bacon. I'd been cooking bacon and it splattered all over the bottom of this hoodie. Just like little flecks of grease everywhere. So the long story short here is not only am I a bad dad, I'm also a bad clothing owner. It's just filth. For somebody who doesn't like being touched and doesn't like being touched by dirty hands, I'm still a filthy, filthy individual. On top of all that, I feel bad now for having yelled. Luckily, again, he didn't care.
Vic00:06:06Yeah, no, that's the thing. You feel bad and then oftentimes it just rolls off them.
JVL00:06:11I want to help you, Sonny. I want to help you. Because I see two real silver linings here. The first is that you now have a dinner hoodie. It's true. Since it's ruined anyway. Instead of an apron, this is your thing. It's like a smock. Yeah, it's like a smock. And now you can wear it and not care at all. But the other thing, because we always have to count our blessings, Sonny. You weren't at the beach. It's true. Because to make your nightmare complete, you would have had to have been sitting on a blanket surrounded by sand. Yes, that would have been much worse. When he reaches over and just throws a handful of sand
Sonny00:06:49into the actual hood.
JVL00:06:51That is your nightmare on Elm Street.
Sonny00:06:53Yeah. So anyway, if you ever meet me and we're at a restaurant or something, don't just reach over and grab me to get my attention, please.
JVL00:07:03Is this a long-standing thing or is this something that has just developed over the years?
Sonny00:07:08It's relative. What, me not liking being touched? Oh, I have never been a -- I'm not a hugger. Hugger.
Vic00:07:20Yeah, yeah. Except in Vegas.
Sonny00:07:24Well, that was -- I mean, that's different.
JVL00:07:27That's after a few drinks. It loosens up, you know. That's very, very interesting.
Sonny00:07:34You're not a hugger. You're not a toucher, JVL. You're not a hugger.
JVL00:07:40It's just that the circle of people with whom I am comfortable with that is just very small. But within the circle of people who I consider family, not just my actual family, but the people I consider, you know, like family family, I'm very affectionate, very tactile.
Sonny00:08:00JVL, what do you have in between your fingers?
JVL00:08:03Oh, you know what? I'm sorry. G-Money is in process on this amazing Lego set, and it's got these big rubbery tires, and so they -- it's just, like, very satisfying to squeeze them.
Sonny00:08:14You had them, like -- I don't know if you're wearing them like a ring or if they were kind of between your fingers.
JVL00:08:18No, I'm just fidgeting with them. It's your fidget. It's your version of a fidget spinner. I'm just fidgeting. These are, like, the really high-quality, like, soft rubber.
Vic00:08:26I love hugging, you know, any chance I get. You'll hug anyone. Anyone. You know, anyone wants to come in for the hug, I'm there for you.
JVL00:08:35How about when the -- I don't know, like, the girls from the high school field hockey team come around for fundraising. Do you like to give them hugs?
Vic00:08:42Hey! Hey, girls! Good to see you! Good to see you! Hi! You just want to tell them that you're on their side and you're rooting for them? No, no, you know, I mean, there is that awkwardness, you know, when you're not sure and you just sort of, like, you just sort of -- you know, you bow. You can bow. Bowing is okay. That's okay.
Sonny00:08:58Bow?
Vic00:08:59Bow. Hello.
Sonny00:09:01Yes.
Vic00:09:02Hi. The wizened Asian man. Tori Hanzo? That's right. You know who -- our friend Matt. Our friend Matt Continetti. Not a hugger. Like, very much a sonny. Yeah.
Sonny00:09:11Just a little handshake. That's one reason we get along so well. A little handshake.
JVL00:09:14That's good. We have a -- we have a mutual friend. I won't say her name on the air, but she -- I don't know if you know this about her -- somebody who the three of us are all quite close to can only hug on one side. Like, she has a thing about, like -- so, you know, if you go to, like, you know, give a -- she always, like, rotates to one side because the other side, like, just freaks her out for whatever reason. It's a real proclivity, and I've always --
Sonny00:09:40So she's an ambi -- she's not an ambi-turner.
JVL00:09:42She's not an ambi-turner. No.
Sonny00:09:44She's an ambi-turner. She can only turn left or turn right. I'm now intrigued on who we're talking about. Yeah, I have no idea who you're talking about.
JVL00:09:48Yeah.
Sonny00:09:49Yeah. I'll tell you after the show.
Vic00:09:51Oh, okay. All right. Very exciting. Very exciting. Victorino, what you up to, buddy? No, this is like a quick -- this is -- this segment's gonna be a real short one because
JVL00:09:57I don't have --
Vic00:09:58We got a lot to talk about. We do. For the real.
Sonny00:10:01We do, and I have a lot of questions for you guys, so this will be great. Do we? We have a lot to talk about with winning time?
JVL00:10:04Yeah. I mean, look, I have -- I've -- okay, we'll get to it. We'll get to it. I'm sorry. Before we get -- I will only refer to this as Showtime. Yeah, Showtime.
Sonny00:10:11Right. No. That is not the name of the show.
JVL00:10:14That is the name of a cable network. I will not refer to it as anything else. Why couldn't they call it that?
Sonny00:10:17That is the name of a cable network. That's what I want. That is -- It's very weird. Well, because it's on HBO. They can't call an HBO show Showtime. You didn't figure this out?
Vic00:10:25You didn't put two and two together? No. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't think -- does anyone -- I didn't even know anybody watches Showtime anymore.
Sonny00:10:30Okay. We can discuss it. I subscribe to Showtime. It used to be good after 11 p.m.
Vic00:10:36It used to be good after 11 p.m.
Sonny00:10:37No.
Vic00:10:38You're thinking of Cinemax. No. Showtime, too.
Sonny00:10:41Believe me.
Vic00:10:42I guess both of them. Was Showtime Red Shoe Diaries? Yes. Yes. Yes, they were. Yes, they were. Dave Duchovny. Okay. I just wanted to give you -- I'm sorry. Did you call him Dave Duchovny?
JVL00:10:53Dave.
Vic00:10:54Dave. Dave Duchovny. His friend. His buddy, Dave. He's my buddy, Dave. Dave Duchovny.
Sonny00:11:00It's like me and Bill Fichtner. Oh, Bobby De Niro.
Vic00:11:02Okay. Well, Sonny, you'll find this of interest where the Poké Ball used to be on that strip. You know, it's gone, right? It died in the pandemic. Right, right. A new place is open next door to it because the actual space where Poké Ball is is now part of the building lobby. It's weird. It's just completely gone.
Sonny00:11:20Oh, they just extended? Yeah.
Vic00:11:22Oh, wow. Weird. Yeah. Very weird. Very weird because there's nothing there now.
Sonny00:11:27It's just an open space. Death of commercial retail. Yeah.
Vic00:11:30I mean, that is a sign that things in Roslyn are miserable. But you remember how it was like across the way, I think, from -- I think -- From the Potbelly or whatever it was or, you know, Chipotle, near that area.
Sonny00:11:37Yeah, it was next to -- it was -- right, it was next to the Chipotle.
Vic00:11:40That's right. Okay. Yeah. So directly right next to Chipotle is Soul Spice, Soul Spice, S-E-O-U-L, Soul Spice. Do you like -- are you guys into Korean? Do you like Korean food?
Sonny00:11:53Do you get Korean much there in Texas? My dad used to make a really good, like, Korean beef recipe. Really? Recipe. Recipe. I do not go to Korean restaurants now.
JVL00:12:05Oh, I love it.
Vic00:12:06How about you, JVL?
JVL00:12:07Do you like that stuff? There was a place -- The only Korean I've ever had is this Korean chicken from a chain called Bonchon. Oh, yeah, sure. Which is amazing.
Vic00:12:16Yes. It's very good. A lot of salt, but delicious. So I've been going there, and they -- like, almost all these places now, it's assembly lines. You know, you pick your base, you know, pick your protein, you do your thing, but you can get your bibimbap. And you -- with your japchae.
Sonny00:12:35Bibimbap. Bibimbap.
Vic00:12:37Yes, exactly. And --
Sonny00:12:39I can't pronounce that word.
Vic00:12:40And by the end of it, it's like $16. But do you know what I like? I like -- I go for the bulgogi. That's what I like, is the bulgogi. Yeah.
JVL00:12:49Oh, the bulgogi?
Vic00:12:50No, the bulgogi. Come on. Bulgogi. You must like it. I call it bulgogi. Do you -- Bulgogi. I can't get enough of it. Like --
JVL00:12:59You can't get enough bulgogi in your face? Don't you get -- don't you get -- like, you get bored? So you go with a bunch of guy friends, and they stand around and watch you? Until they finish? No, no.
Vic00:13:05Are you kidding? So you're done with the bulgogi? I don't know what you're talking about. But I'm just saying you get tired of the day-to-day, and you want something different, and you go for the bulgogi.
JVL00:13:13Does it come in a cup, and then you drink it afterwards? Or how does it work?
Vic00:13:16It was so spicy. I'll just put it to you this way. It was so spicy, my mouth was on fire. Like, and I normally like -- I normally like bulgogi, but I did not see that coming. Speaking of which, over the weekend, BTS -- Wait, wait, wait.
Sonny00:13:30You're ruining my transition, Sonny. We can't wait. We've only done 13 minutes of dude's chatting. I know. We got nothing else. We need to do more.
Vic00:13:37I got to come back to the transition.
Sonny00:13:40So I have a question, Vic. Yes? Whenever you go to a place that is you -- you're given an empty bowl, and you fill it up as you walk down, what's the least amount of money you get out of there for? Because at the poke place, it was like, well, you get a little extra this, a little extra that. A $30 bowl of fish and rice.
Vic00:14:04Yes. No. Yeah. And poke bowl now in this environment, in this economy, would be like $30. You know what I mean?
Sonny00:14:10At the Soul Spice. What's it called?
Vic00:14:12Soul Spice.
Sonny00:14:13Soul Spice. Soul Spice. At Soul Spice, again, you're just walking down a little bit of this, a little bit of
Vic00:14:18that. It starts off innocently, you know, with a little bit of black rice or jack chae. Oh, the bowls are only $11. Right. No, it's amazing. It's great. If all you eat is that, and then you start loading up. Initially, like, well, you know, like with the different toppings and condiments, and like, well, you know, the ones that are free, initially, you're like, well, I don't really want the corn. I'll just take this. And then when you realize how much it's all adding up, whatever you get for free. You get everything. Everything. You get everything. You just get it all in there.
Sonny00:14:47I don't care. You've got to get it all in there. That's how you maximize your... It's interesting to contrast to the food trough, because again, the food trough, with the hot plates of, you know, bubbling, boiling crap that just sit there and everybody touches them and sneezes on them. Like, you're very consciously like filling up your own and you're like, well, maybe this a little bit. Oh, strategic. But when the other person has the bowl, when the person in front of you has the bowl, you're just like, oh, a little bit of this, a little bit. You're not thinking about it as much. And soon as you get to the checkout, it's like, oh, it's $18.
Vic00:15:20That's exactly right. When it's the other way around, then you have to aim for things that are, you know, fried shrimp, for example. They're very light. The last thing I'm going to do is load up on rice in my tray.
JVL00:15:31Absolutely. Oh, never. If you want shrimp, I think, let me get it from a food trough because that's going to be good eating.
Vic00:15:38And it's totally fine.
Sonny00:15:39I'm still eating. Well, fried shrimp. Fried shrimp, you're going to be okay there. You don't want to get the like, you don't want to get the like ice, you know, the, you know, the cocktail shrimp.
Vic00:15:46I'll tell you this, Sonny. I was, I thought the, I thought the shrimp at the, the Bacchanal at Caesar's Palace was
Sonny00:15:55questionable. I didn't even get it. I didn't even get it. It was questionable. I didn't get it. I don't, I wouldn't, I didn't eat it there. Everybody was picking through it. Picking through it. Yeah. That's how you get stomach illnesses.
Vic00:16:05Yeah. That's how you get like in that movie Go. Remember JVL? Yup. It's a great scene. Go check it out if you haven't seen that movie. Uh, anyway.
Sonny00:16:12Okay.
Vic00:16:13Anyway, sorry. Speaking of Korea and over the weekend, BTS permission to dance on stage. Seoul live viewing came in third place with $6.8 million behind Uncharted.
Sonny00:16:25One hun- just missed it by a hundred thousand, could have had 6.9 million.
Vic00:16:30Really? I was looking at box office mojo just today. Box office mojo behind Uncharted.
Sonny00:16:34No, I'm saying if it had been 6.9 million.
Vic00:16:36Oh, 6.9 would have been perfect.
Sonny00:16:37Yes. Exactly. It would have been very nice. That's my number.
Vic00:16:41That's a nice total. That's my number. Yeah. That's true. Much like my sleep number, as you know. That's what I keep it at. Of course you do. And my thermostat. Everything.
Sonny00:16:50In my car. You don't actually have a sleep number, Ben, do you? No, I don't.
Vic00:16:53I don't.
Sonny00:16:54But if I did. I was going to say, JVL's going to come to your house and slash your air mattress.
Vic00:16:58I actually don't understand the- I guess it has to do with the firmness, is that what
Sonny00:17:01that is? It's science. Well, it's the most scientifically best. JVL will know. What's the best?
JVL00:17:06It's the science of sleep.
Vic00:17:07It's the science of sleep.
JVL00:17:08The science. The firmness. It's like an air mattress that's constantly filling to keep ... Because many air mattresses leak slowly over time. And so if you would like it inflated to X number versus Y number, you can dial it in. It's science.
Sonny00:17:23That's science.
JVL00:17:24It sounds like the waterbed of the 2020s. Okay. I had a waterbed in high school. Those things are amazing. Oh, hey now. It's fantastic.
Sonny00:17:34I had a waterbed too. What?
JVL00:17:36I had a waterbed.
Sonny00:17:37Oh, yeah. You people. You fantastic. In the '90s? Yeah. My folks were very into the whole idea of water. Oh, it's so much more comfortable. And so I was like, "Yeah, I definitely want a waterbed." And I was like, "This is not nearly ... This kind of sucks."
JVL00:17:49Oh, do you know what the best part of the waterbed is? It's the temperature control.
Sonny00:17:52Well, that was nice. That was nice. Because I ... You can keep ... I would get real cold.
Vic00:17:57You had a waterbed?
JVL00:17:58I cannot believe both of you had waterbeds. Yeah. In the winter, you turn it up nice and warm. Yeah. So the waterbed, you can be the perfect temperature to have just a sheet over you, no matter what the actual temperature is outside. And so in the summer, when it's a million degrees out, you don't even need air conditioning on. You turn that waterbed all the way down, and that water is just sucking heat out of your body. Nice and cool.
Sonny00:18:22Yeah, that's what I ... I would always keep it very cold, because I like having the comforter on me. I don't want a sheet. I need the comforter.
JVL00:18:29I prefer to have just the tiny bit of footage. No. I need the heavy. I need heavy.
Sonny00:18:34I've never gotten one of those weighted blankets. Oh, we've got a lot of those in my house. You mean like a down?
JVL00:18:39I've always been very curious. You like a down?
Sonny00:18:41No, no. Weighted.
JVL00:18:43No, no.
Sonny00:18:44Weighted blanket. You would like it? Imagine going to ... You know when you go to the dentist, and you get the lead- For the x-rays? They put the- Like that.
Vic00:18:51Like that, but a blanket. Yeah. It's a big sensory thing. I've thought about it, because when they put that on you in the dentist chair, it's like, "Oh, that's very comfortable." It's comfortable. Yeah. Oh, boy. Tired. It's like to protect me from radiation. Perched atop ... Uncharted was 9.3 million, and perched atop the box office, once again, the Batman.
Sonny00:19:11The Batman.
Vic00:19:12With $66.5 million box office slots.
Sonny00:19:18The Batman did a very good job of holding on to its audience. It dropped, I think, a hair under 50%, either a hair under or a hair over 50%, which is a very, very good- It's a very good hold for a movie like this. And what is interesting is that everything is holding very well, which suggests to me that audiences are starting to come back a little bit. Like everything-
Vic00:19:39And watch whatever's in theaters.
Sonny00:19:41Everything in the top 10 had a drop of less than 23% out of the-
JVL00:19:46It's because there are no other movies out, Sonny.
Sonny00:19:48Well, but that's what I'm saying. I think that people are actually getting to the point where they're like, "I will go see Dog, starring Channing Tatum and a dog." Yeah. Or, "I will go see- "I will go see Uncharted," because there's just nothing else.
JVL00:20:02How long do we have to wait for the Sandy Bullock movie with Channing Tatum? Because if that comes out soon, that is going to- In this environment- Yeah, it should. In this environment-
Vic00:20:11Where people are just dying to go out to see it. That's going to- You're going to end up having to sit in the front row looking stupid. We know all the seats left.
Sonny00:20:15That's going to do 70 million opening weekend, I think, easy. That comes out not this weekend, but next weekend, I believe. That's going to kill. I think it's going to do very well. People love her.
Vic00:20:26I'm seeing more and more of the Nick Cage- Yes. movie as well. When is that?
Sonny00:20:31That's not for a while, though. The Unbearable Massive Weight of Talent. Yes. The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent or whatever. That comes out in ... I don't know. I have to check. Yeah. I have to check. Yeah. But no, I think that the Sandra Bullock Channing Tatum movie is going to do very, very well. It's going to be a big date night type movie. People love- Oh, yeah. People love Sandra Bullock.
Vic00:20:55People love Channing Tatum. Right.
Sonny00:20:57And Brad Pitt. Yeah. Well, I still think that's a mistake. I still think it's a mistake to have that in the trailers and commercials.
Vic00:21:03I totally agree with you. I feel like, oh, the big reveal is now ... It's like the whole movie. I've seen the whole movie.
Sonny00:21:09Because clearly, he is supposed to show up at some point near the end as the actual savior hero. Right. And then he's going to die. He's going to die and Channing Tatum is going to have to save the day.
Vic00:21:22Do you think that they decided to include it in the trailer because they thought, "Oh, we're not sure how many people are going to see this movie." And if we throw him in, then that's the closer right there.
Sonny00:21:32Then people are like, "Oh, I'm definitely seeing it." Well, I got to go see Brad Pitt. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's obviously the thinking. That's obvious.
JVL00:21:39But I still think it's- I mean, I would assume it's in his contract for the movie one way or another. Right. I mean, I would assume that that's contractually stipulated, not something that they decided on the fly.
Sonny00:21:49Well, I would assume ... Well, so it depends. It depends. Right? So sometimes a big name actor will agree to ... Yeah. ... play a small part in a movie, so long as you do not use their name in advertising. They can't be on the poster, they can't be in the trailer. It's like he's just there. Because the idea is if their name is being used to sell the movie, then that creates added pressure on them to perform and open, et cetera, et cetera. But I assume there's ... There must have been some sort of ... I mean, I can't imagine they would tell Brad Pitt, "We won't put you in the advertising. We'll put you in the advertising campaign." And then they would just do it.
Vic00:22:30I'm sure there's ... Is he mentioned in the billing? Like if you see the poster, does it say, "Sandra Bullock, Channing Tatum?" I don't know.
Sonny00:22:36I don't think so. Not on the first one. I don't ... He was not in the first trailer at all. Oh, really? I mean, the first series of trailers, it was just Channing Tatum and Sandra Bullock. Oh. That is interesting. But then he shows up. So I assume you're right, Vic, that this is a, "Hey, we're going to really sell people on coming." Yeah. Yeah. They were iffy. But I feel ... Again, I feel like it's a mistake. Yeah. I think it's an item reserved to have it pop on the second weekend.
Vic00:22:58That's right. Because if people start watching that, the word of mouth will spread. Then everyone's going to get drawn in about like, "Oh my gosh, you should see that." The other thing that I think is interesting is that I notice, as not a movie expert, but whenever you see the top billing, and if you want to stick somebody in at the end, but make that person feel special, you have to say, "And."
Sonny00:23:15And. Or with. With.
Vic00:23:18Yeah. That's always the person who's lost the negotiation. With and then and. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Whenever you have like special, like big name talent on TV shows, and then they throw them in at the end.
JVL00:23:33The rarest of all is the introducing.
Vic00:23:36Yeah, introducing. And introducing, right?
JVL00:23:39And introducing. Which I think I've only seen a handful of times. I've seen it with Lindsay Lohan in The Parent Trap. I saw it with Charlize Theron in Two Days in the Valley. And it's, I mean, you gotta.
Vic00:23:52Oh, you take, you gotta be sure that this is going to be, she's, this person's going to be the next big thing this, well, introducing, you know, in Temple of Doom, a short round.
Sonny00:24:02There's a new movie with that kid. What? Well, I mean, he's like 40 now. Yeah. He's like 45, 50 now. You're kidding.
JVL00:24:09But he's, he's, it's a. He was in Squid Game actually, wasn't he? Oh, no. Come on.
Sonny00:24:13That's terrible. First off, he's Chinese. Yeah. Not Korean. But the, he called Everything Everywhere All at Once, which I'm actually, I'm seeing it tomorrow. I'm going to, I've got tickets for a preview tomorrow. I'm very, I'm very excited to go see it.
Vic00:24:27That's exciting.
Sonny00:24:28Good for him. But it's a, it's a multiverse action comedy starring Michelle Yeoh.
JVL00:24:32I was going to say Michelle Yeoh's in that, right? Yeah.
Sonny00:24:35Okay. Great. I'll let you guys know how it is. It is 140 minutes long. So I know it's not. Why? That's one quadrant.
Vic00:24:42Why? It's probably not great on. You know what? There might as well not be any movies this weekend anyway, because of March Madness. It's going to be, everyone's going to be watching that usually. Is that this weekend? Is that? It begins tomorrow. JV, I was just about to ask you, do you, do you follow any more? Virginia Tech, it's nothing.
Sonny00:24:55What seat? What seat is Virginia?
?00:24:57I don't think.
Vic00:24:58Virginia Tech. Virginia Tech is in it. Virginia not in the tournament this year. Virginia Tech.
JVL00:25:02I thought they were the new ACC power.
Sonny00:25:03What happened? Didn't they win a national championship like three years ago?
JVL00:25:05They won the national. They did. They won the national title a couple of years back. All the way. But remember the year before that they got bounced out in the first round as a number one seed.
Sonny00:25:11That's right. It was the first. One seed to lose to a 16. Was it the first number one seed to lose to a 16? First ever. They came back to, they came back to win it all the next year. And then I think the year after that they won the national title.
Vic00:25:18They got bounced out in the first round again. It is.
Sonny00:25:20Maybe the second round. It's still better than Georgetown's situation which is. Did they get in? You guys going to fire Ewing or what? Well, no. Because this is how it works as you know.
Vic00:25:26They're afraid he'll eat them. Godzilla Patrick Ewing. He's a hungry. Okay. He's a hungry man.
Sonny00:25:31I'm not trolling. I'm not trolling.
Vic00:25:33He's a hungry man. Are the Hoyas in or not? No. They went 0 for 21.
?00:25:37I'm not trolling. I'm not trolling.
Sonny00:25:39I'm not trolling. He's a hungry man.
Vic00:25:41Are the Hoyas in or not? No. They went 0 for 21. I'm not trolling. He's a hungry man. Are the Hoyas in or not? No. They went 0 for 21 in the Big East. They won zero games in the history of Georgetown and not since I think DePaul from a few years ago. They went 21 straight losses for the first time ever. So worst season, worst Big East. Oh gosh. I'm so sorry. And everyone is all upset about this. I've talked to our friend about this. You know our friend JVO. Which one? Tom? John? Oh, our other friend. Yeah, Junior. Wow. I spoke to Junior. Talk about rumors about what's going to happen. How is it going to go down?
Sonny00:26:22I don't know who Junior is. What does that mean?
JVL00:26:24It's one of Vic's famous friends, who's very plugged into college sports. JVL will know because-
Sonny00:26:31Is it Mel Kuyper?
Vic00:26:32No. But if you listen to the Kornheiser show, they used to refer to him as Junior. Anyway, and-
Sonny00:26:39John Thompson, Junior?
Vic00:26:41No. But they thought that, oh, because it's so embarrassing. Even though they- Cal Ripken, Junior. They upped his contract last season after they won the Big East, and now they've got to stick with it. Even though this is the worst season in the history of the school, that he'll probably ceremoniously step to retire, retire before the Big East. No, that didn't happen. So the- Why would he do that? The athletic department then sends that, so everybody's up in arms. Everybody. The papers, the kids, the school papers. There's nobody on their side anymore on this. Alumni, the whole thing, and attendance has plummeted. And so the athletic department said, "We understand people are concerned, and we are going to make the necessary changes to turn this team around, and that's why they're firing the assistant coaches." Because that's the problem, is the assistant coaches.
Sonny00:27:36So just to be clear- It's not Pat's fault. Just to be clear, they hired Patrick Ewing, and his first season wasn't great.
Vic00:27:42Right? Yeah, he's been there for five years.
Sonny00:27:44Oh, he's been there for five years? Now I thought this was the third season. No, believe it or not. But he did win. He won the Big East last year, right?
Vic00:27:49He did. He did.
Sonny00:27:51It was a- Like the whole regular season, or just the tournament?
Vic00:27:55The tournament. The tournament. They were sub 500. So anyway, they were-
Sonny00:27:59I think if you win- Yeah, I know. It gives you an extra year. If you win the tournament, you get one bad season. But this is beyond- If it happens again, he's got to go.
Vic00:28:07This is beyond bad. It's beyond... Oh, and 21? This is...
JVL00:28:11Look, I said this to you with JT. You did. You did. No, no, no.
Vic00:28:17You did.
JVL00:28:18You did. You did. And this is before- It is always dangerous to hire somebody who you can't fire.
Vic00:28:24What I think... Yes, I remember that. I remember that vividly.
JVL00:28:27Boy, I bet you guys would kill for Craig Esherick now, wouldn't you?
Vic00:28:29No. Craig Esherick was fired for less.
JVL00:28:31Right. Of course. But that's because him you could fire. He was not part of- He wasn't part of- The family.
Vic00:28:38The family. Right.
JVL00:28:40The family. The family. And so- But now, looking at this dumpster fire, I'm sure you guys would kill to have Craig Esherick
Vic00:28:44back. Yeah. But it also seems clear to me that even if, oh, I remember you're saying careful about who you fire. I don't think they ever had a choice, as our friend would say, with the old man in charge, with John Thompson. Oh, right. Yeah. There was no... That was not an option of saying, "Oh, maybe we can look at some of these other coaches." No. Not an option. And there's a piece that came out- Tommy Amaker?
JVL00:29:08Yeah. No. No, no, no. I mean, isn't he at Harvard or something? They couldn't put him down?
Vic00:29:13Yes. Yes. That would have been great. That would have been great. But... And one of these other people had written about how behind the scenes is now... Behind the scenes is Ronnie Thompson, the other son. So it doesn't add...
JVL00:29:26And this is a serious question. I'm not trying to poke in your wound here.
Mike00:29:31No.
JVL00:29:32That's okay. I'm very upset. Is Georgetown a job that any up-and-coming coach would want?
Vic00:29:38It would really depend because do you go in and say, "Oh, by the way, you have to clear everything with Ronnie Thompson now." Because it's... And you have to attend the seance with John Thompson Jr. and he actually has input during the seance.
Sonny00:29:51Why don't you just get rid of all the Thompsons?
Vic00:29:54Oh, yeah. No, that sounds like a good thing that they could do.
Sonny00:29:56Just clear out all the Thompsons. You mean an exorcism.
Vic00:29:58Yeah. Get rid of them all. They can't. This is like the scene... Right. Go for it. Sonny, this is like the scene in Nixon where the hippie protester's like, "You can't stop the war. No one can stop the war." It's like he has no control over this. Jack DeGioia, the president, has no control. He has no control over this. He can't just say, "Oh, let's hide."
JVL00:30:18He can't. The Thompson family owns that program. And when the old man died, they had a chance. Well, Hewing is like an adopted son, right? He is. He is. And they should have made a break with the entire family, even if it meant hiring a lesser coach, because then, again, you're just hostage to it.
Vic00:30:38Yeah. And this is the idea that Pat was just going to use this on his way to actually wanting to become an NBA coach. Well, that's not working out. But speaking of basketball, this week, we are discussing Winning Time on HBO Max. Showtime.
JVL00:30:51It's called Showtime.
Vic00:30:52Showtime. The full name, I believe, is Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty. One of you should give a big review. My question, before we even get started on this segment at the 30-minute mark, perfectly, do you both follow NBA? Sonny, I know JVO. JVL. But Sonny, are you an NBA guy?
Sonny00:31:16I used to. I grew up a Lakers fan, because my dad grew up out in LA. He grew up in 29 Palms, and so that was ... I lived in England during the second half of the Winning Time franchise, the Winning Time Lakers, as we called them. In your family. In Ipswich.
Vic00:31:41They called it the Winning Time.
JVL00:31:43The Winning Time Lakers. Everything's always a little bit different in Europe.
Sonny00:31:45Yes.
JVL00:31:46That's right. So it's like the Royale with cheese. That's right. And the Winning Time Lakers.
Sonny00:31:50And the Winning Time Lakers. We were big Winning Time Lakers fans, but I would just read the box scores. I'd be like, "Oh, Magic Johnson did 27 points, 14 boards." So explain to our ... But it wasn't until the Shaq and Kobe Lakers that I was actually living in the States and watching them dominate basketball.
JVL00:32:08I have so many questions for you folks. Okay. I don't believe they did dominate. Well, we'll get there.
Sonny00:32:13Yeah. I mean, the only one-
Vic00:32:15Okay. How about explaining to our listeners, what is this show about?
Sonny00:32:18I mean, am I ... You want me to-
JVL00:32:23Do a big boy review. Okay. So- Winning Time- Winning Time. The story- Is the HBO series about the Los Angeles Lakers as they are purchased by Dr. Jerry Buss. Wow. You're ready to go, JVL. I'm just doing ... I'm doing my Sonny impression.
Sonny00:32:38No, that's good. You should keep going. I'm-
JVL00:32:41It is an Adam McKay production. It is an Adam McKay production. And he brings all of the ticks from the big short to this. Fourth wall breaking. There are switches in modes of taping, where sometimes you're in film, sometimes you're in high eight, sometimes you're in VHS.
Guest00:32:59Yes.
JVL00:33:00I feel like VHS. It was reportedly that Will Ferrell was going to be the lead in this, but then Adam McKay decided to cast Will Ferrell's best friend, John C. Reilly, in the role. And not tell Will Ferrell. Now Will Ferrell's no longer part of that little fraternity. Is that for real?
Sonny00:33:20Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's it. So we'll talk about all that. All right. So Winning Time is the story of the Winning Time 1980s Lakers, Pat Riley's Lakers, Magic Johnson and Kareem and then, you know, as-
JVL00:33:33Worthy, who is the guy who is the absolutely underappreciated part of that.
Sonny00:33:40As you're called right now on the squad cast. That's right. Right. Right. Underappreciated. We're two years away from that on the show. Yeah. We still we still got a ways to go. I mean, Pat Riley isn't even the coach yet. It's still Jerry West, who is has at the end of the second episode has just resigned and said, I'm out. I'm out. So as JBL says, the show is it is an Adam Kay film. It is. Let's see. It is. The creators were Max Borenstein and Jim Hecht and Adam McKay and Borenstein are the show runners. So at the end of every show, I don't know if you guys have stuck around. For the the post forum, the forum where Rick Fox, Rick Fox, Laker, Laker legend Rick Fox hosts like a post game post post show wrap up with McKay and the guy who's the guy who plays the guy who plays Magic Johnson and they talk about, you know, they do they've they've whatever they they they talk about the show and whatever the so I have to I have two big critiques of the show. The first is as JBL. As JBL mentioned, they do this very, very annoying thing where they are constantly switching from film to to like, I think, super eight to VHS. And I wouldn't mind that if there was any rhyme or reason I'm about to ask.
Vic00:34:59They must if you were to ask them right now, if they were here and say, what was the significance of switching it from this to this at this moment, I would I would assume they would
Sonny00:35:08have some sort of bullshit reason for it. As best as I can tell, as a viewer and as somebody who like pays a lot of attention to film stock, because I think it's an interesting way to differentiate different things that you are doing in a show, like along with like not just the film stock, but also aspect ratio. And like like I think it's I think it's a really interesting tool that you can use. And there I can't tell what the fuck they're doing with it in this. It just is as best as I can tell, totally even what is even if there is a rhyme or reason
JVL00:35:36for it, it does not work because they're doing it sometimes once every 90 seconds, we're doing it shot to shot in the same scene so often that it is burdensome to the viewer.
Sonny00:35:52I think it's very, very annoying. It's very it calls attention to itself and not oh boy, oh boy. And my my other critique is just a mild like it's more an ideological annoyance than anything else. But like I get I get. A show run by two white guys talking about, you know, the racism of the NBA and Jack Kent Cook and who I had to explain to Beth used to be the owner of the Redskins, right?
JVL00:36:22Did she?
Vic00:36:23Yeah, I did. I did. I knew him as the owner of the Redskins. I didn't realize he the hound the Lakers.
Sonny00:36:27Yeah. But like the whole thing where they're like talking about the code words for Larry Bird and Magic Johnson and like every time they're talking about Larry Bird, the word, you know, hardworking, hardworking, white, white, white, cerebral. It's when it's when it's Magic Johnson, natural athletic talents and black, black, black. Like we get it, guys. You're very beat me over the head.
Vic00:36:47We understand.
Sonny00:36:48We understand Adam McKay. It is. And that is very much Adam McKay's thing. He wants to you know, he's one of the good white folks, so he wants to make sure everybody knows that. That said, all that said, I I've been enjoying the shit out of the show. I think I love John C. Reilly. I think he's very good as Jerry Buss, and I think that, you know, even if it cost the world, the partnership of Adam McKay and Will Ferrell, it was worth it because Jerry Buss is so good in this. And I love Gabby Hoffman. Oh, yeah. OK. Yeah.
Vic00:37:17And I know she is.
JVL00:37:18I never thought she had it in her.
Sonny00:37:22She's so good. She's she's been good for the last. She's been in a couple of things in recent years and has been in the field of dreams. But yeah, she's she she was she's a child star. She went away for a little bit. I think she had some personal issues, but she came back recently in this. And God, there was something else, Veep or something. All I find her intriguing and sexually, you mean I find her intriguing because the way that you intone that makes me think that it's, you know, I don't know why I find her intriguing.
Vic00:37:54And even though I know a good friend of ours who we text with from time to time says that she is, quote, a bat shit crazy, grew up and I really grew up in the Chelsea Hotel or one of those places. I'd be crazy.
JVL00:38:07And then she grew up in a hotel. Yeah. Yeah. It's very strange. Bohemian. Yeah. Yeah. And yet. But this is her best.
Sonny00:38:16I think this is her best work. She's very good in this. Again, she was in some. I'll look it up. She was in something recently. She was very good. And I love Jason Clarke as Jerry West. I love. I love the whole. I love them all. Both trying to puncture the myth of Jerry West, the logo, but also like it is deeply sympathetic to him. Yeah. Yeah. In a way that like it gets it gets to the heart of his frustrations in a way that I think is is. I mean, look, I again, this is this is a show that is very much denounced by the powers that be at the NBA. They all hate it. They all say. Oh, that's interesting. Nonsense. Really? Yeah. Yeah. They don't. They don't care for it.
JVL00:38:54They don't. They don't. They do not care for Magic Johnson.
Sonny00:38:57Not a fan of this show. Magic Johnson. Magic is portrayed as a as a monster. Well, he's portrayed as a as a human. Yeah. I mean, it's. Yeah. You know, it is what it is. OK. But yeah, I just I have I have found it. I found it very entertaining. I find I find the business angle of it fascinating. I'm really I'm I'm curious to see what they do with like the forum Qua Forum, the forum as like as a just a business location in it in and of itself. I'm fascinated by the like explosion and popularity of the NBA and how they they essentially I mean, that league was very close to folding in the in the late seventies and early eighties and how they're they're rebuilding it here. I, you know, I love Michael. I mean, that whole that whole sequence is is wonderful. Just the crazy eyes on Michael Chiklis, like their sit down the restaurant, the sit down at the restaurant. Why don't we throw another lobster on there? You know, like I just I love I just like I I have I was skeptical going into the show. I have been deeply entertained. And that's about all you can ask for in a show of this sort JVL so I I only know the
JVL00:40:07I don't know the basketball side of the story. I do not know the personnel and business backstory of the bus family and all that. So I have no idea how much of this is for real and how much is not. All of that said, I also am enjoying the crap out of it. It's very, very fun to watch. If I had a complaint and it's also incredibly well written. Like, I think the characters are really interesting. You want to spend all of them. All of that said, I find myself as a viewer missing John C. Riley anytime he's not on screen because he's so, and I look, I always, I always love John C. Riley, but I feel like this is the part he was born to play and he is, he plays Jerry bus as if he is Royal Tenenbaum but good, right? Imagine if Royal Tenenbaum was underneath it all a good guy instead of just a son of a bitch. Right. And, uh, and that's how he, and he's, he's just electric. Like you just want to be around and you want to be around the character and, and you also want to be around John C. Riley's portrayal of the character. And so I find myself, especially with the magic stuff, I don't always want to be with magic and maybe it'll be different once magic is on the Lakers and as part of it. Right. I, a little bit of magic goes a long way. I am desperate to spend more time with Kareem, right? Uh, because the, the guy who plays Kareem, I, I forget, uh, his name, I have it pulled up on IMDb somewhere. Um, he's very, very good. So the single most interesting directorial choice of the two episodes is that Solomon Hughes, Solomon Hughes. He's fantastic in this and I mean, he's helped by the fact that Kareem is a phenomenally interesting guy. Uh, much more interesting.
Vic00:42:11Oh, oh, oh, oh, the actor you mean? Yeah.
JVL00:42:14Solomon Hughes. Solomon Hughes. Right. But Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is one of the most interesting characters in like the last 50 years of, of sports, uh, and also has turned into a really nice writer. I don't know if you guys have noticed that like for a while he was just like writing essays from Newsweek every once in a while and really good actually. Yep. Anyway, they, they show his famous scene from airplane. Yeah. But if they don't just show the scene from airplane, they reshoot the scene from airplane with kids, you know, with a different kid and a different, and, uh, it's a weird, like at first I thought to myself, wait a minute, this are, did they just put his face, you know, do they digitally, do they shoot the whole thing? They did that. And so I went and rewatched the, the actual scene in airplane and the truth is actually
Mike00:43:10Kareem was pretty good on screen.
JVL00:43:11Yeah. No, no.
Vic00:43:13He's really works. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tried to pretend that he's not who he is, but here's my question, uh, in, uh, in winning time and they show that scene from airplane and they walk off the set and the kid asks for his, you know, autograph and he says, fuck off. But besides that, was that the Zucker brothers plague themselves in the background? I wonder cause they're so old. Yes. That I thought to myself, wait a minute, the Zucker brothers would not have been that old. I don't know. Yeah. No, they wouldn't have been that old. I think it was them. Okay. I'm glad.
JVL00:43:45Uh, I, I forgot to make it. So anyway, there are lots of other things. We can talk about the basketball aspect of it later. Yeah. Vic, did you love this? Cause this feels like you love the seventies feels like boogie nights basketball.
Vic00:43:53It does. And it exactly was. I actually have a sort of quadrant for it, but it's, it's, it's still not, you know, it's TB, it's TBD as they say, because, you know, I mean, there's still some missing things. Nevertheless, the plot I give an a minus and it's only a minus because the thing about buying teams and, and, and, and, and the trades and running a franchise, it's very complicated. And I found a very good, they're talking about land swaps with Jack had cook. What is happening there? Okay.
Sonny00:44:20Just buying the, I don't know.
Vic00:44:21He's just trading the Chrysler building for the team. Okay. Uh, duration is a B plus. That's pretty good. Uh, action violence as it like playing on the court is TBD because we haven't actually seen them play yet except for. Uh, a pickup game, uh, back in Lansing where magic is a real jerk, uh, to the other guy who's dating the girl he likes and, uh, the party scene where he plays with Norm Nixon and gets schooled and embarrassed by Norm Nixon, which is really interesting.
Sonny00:44:51Well, this is, this is, uh, my wife, Beth's complaint about the show so far is there's like no basketball for it being a basketball. It's going to happen.
Vic00:44:58It's going to happen because I don't know how many episodes in this sunny, how many episodes are in this?
Sonny00:45:02I think it's 10.
Vic00:45:03I assume they'll take us right to the, uh, I assume they'll take us through not just the championship then, but, um, because, uh, I assume to the point where James worthy joins the team.
Sonny00:45:14Well, the show, the show begins with, with the prologue to the show is the, is when is like the day magic finds out he has AIDS. So I assume it goes all the way through that whole, because I don't know, will they end
JVL00:45:27up there again? Michael Jordan hadn't retired when magic was diagnosed with HIV. i don't know man because he's in a he's looking he sees people magazine and it's michael jordan talking about life after basketball oh no do you remember was it the initial one and then he came back or no i don't think so he retired the first time when i was in high school and no i guess when
Sonny00:45:51i was in college jordan jordan retired after the dream team and magic was diagnosed with aids before the dream team right yeah i think so yeah yeah yeah i mean that's my that's how i remember
JVL00:46:02it we'll see we'll find out because that's what i thought to myself is that oh we're getting magic's aids diagnosis but when he sees the people magazine i thought maybe the timeline of that is
Vic00:46:10wrong i will say and sex and or nudity is an a plus plus plus every episode we're two for two
Sonny00:46:16i hope every episode has a finally it's finally something for oh my goodness the playboy mansion
Vic00:46:22jvl you've been to the playboy mansion was it like that for you uh-huh it's just piles of bodies
JVL00:46:27everywhere it was amazing the playboy mansion is one of those things where you think to yourself like oh it can't be that good and you're like nope wow hope it's that good uh so victory you
Vic00:46:39liked it i liked it a lot and particularly you know i'm not i'm not uh an nba much like i'm not a baseball expert or anything near it uh yet i found myself so fascinated by the personalities that i ended up reading up on um jerry buss and uh jerry west as well as uh later on i guess paul stead who had taken over temporarily and then pat riley eventually um and all those various personalities uh in addition to you know magic johnson and well i mean i obviously knew about magic johnson and kareem abdul-jabbar but also these other players as well norm nixon and they mentioned um moncrieff as well as in in the draft i mean so you you can go down a rabbit hole about the the draft and who was picked and and the whole thing and and i just found it entirely fascinating um i love john c riley as well although i can't every time you see him i at least when i see him i'm always thinking like either chest rockwell or or cal notton jr i mean you know because it's like you can't take him seriously and so there's that weirdness dewey cox yeah that's right dewey cox
Sonny00:47:48and so did you ever watch walk hard parts i never finished it's it's i i i i recommend it because it's great but it's also the sort of movie that once you watch it you will never be able to watch another musical biopic again because it skewers yeah it skewers the formula so perfectly oh and i really like the actor uh who plays magic johnson
Vic00:48:08quincy isaiah and what i wondered and i have to watch the interviews then he sounds like magic johnson and i wondered if he actually sounds that way when he's not acting the part or not i don't know he's probably british or something no i mean i remember watching the wire and being you know that's the first time i ever saw idris elba i had no idea i had no idea he was so in the
Sonny00:48:30in the after show uh on the on the most recent after show jason clark was on australia jason clark is jason clark is very australian that's so crazy so like it goes from like jerry west's like not quite west virginia twang like kind of like kind of like talking through his teeth to like oi mates let's throw another shrimp on the bobby and play some basketball it's like that's crazy uh is it he sounds nothing like that obviously do you find that was your outback grill have some oysters mate yeah let's go this is a knife let's go fight some kangaroos our our friend
Vic00:49:07our friend mike jason clark warren who does many impressions by the way our friend mike warren and and previous guest host yes previous guest host he says that the way australians say razor blades is rise up lights rise up lights oh that's good that's right rise up lights rise up lights ah so did you is it an accurate portrayal of jerry west in terms of his personality i've read about him and the most i read about him is that he was very sort of withdrawn and shy and almost reclusive but
JVL00:49:46the anger and the bitterness well and i mean without so many of these guys like i don't know was he an alcoholic right maybe there's a good biography of jerry west but you know this type of would never have been hinted at in the contemporary press right like you could you could never read the the sports section and you know when i'm sure all of the sports if somebody like him was a problem drinker which is what it sounds like right i mean the the things you hear yeah when when bus says to him you know i used to drink bourbon too but i switched to vodka because he couldn't smell it as much a great line um so i mean you know he seems to have some themes he's a famous who's a person but you know it's always framed as because he's a perfectionist and because he's just so competitive and but who knows i mean a lot a lot of the guys at the very very top level of the nba were difficult people larry bird is famously difficult uh michael jordan was is you know like the biggest asshole an absolute sociopath right yeah and it is rare to find guys who like johnson uh like lebron right who seem to be by the standards of professional athlete dumb like basically okay people yeah and that's at the very very at the very very top level yeah and you know at the level of like normal all-star you know you're gonna find good people and bad people it's fine but at like the the generational talent level a lot of those guys are that way because they're assholes yeah yeah
Vic00:51:21yeah um i found i liked i liked the second episode better than the first because uh and the first one again with adam mckay i just felt like it was more adam mckay than adam mckay second one was
JVL00:51:32directed by jonah hill yes yeah um uh first one directed by adam yes very adam mckay yeah and and
Sonny00:51:40so we we hinted at this a bit before but like so there was a story in esquire profile of adam mckay when don't look up came out and he was talking about this show he was talking about how when when he was developing the show he and he and will ferrell had a production company together right um they were you know they were making a lot of stuff together and like adam mckay wanted to get it was getting more and more into producing was like he wanted to have his fingers in a lot of different pots and will ferrell like wasn't super into that he just kind of wanted to act and do his thing um but when this when the show was being developed will ferrell wanted to do it because he's a huge lakers fan he was like i want to want to play i want to play jerry buss and adam mckay was like yeah yeah sure you can play jerry buss absolutely that's that's totally fine that's that's totally fine and then and then adam mckay started thinking about it was like i actually don't want to play jerry buss so i'm gonna ask his best friend john c riley to do it and i'm not gonna tell john c riley that i already told will ferrell that he could have the part and i'm not gonna tell will ferrell that john c riley has been hired they're just gonna find out about it from variety or deadline or whoever and and after that they like i mean like it's it's i i texted i texted a la friend this story and he was like well no wonder they don't work together because that's you have to tell people like if you it's one thing it's one thing if you don't want to work with a guy on a project that's people understand they may there may be some hard feelings but if you just if you just don't tell them and do it anyway and they find out uh it's like of course
JVL00:53:12they're never going to work together again maybe adam was just hoping that will just wouldn't see
Sonny00:53:19it on the max yeah right you know just maybe he wouldn't notice it it confirms many of my feelings about uh uh adam mckay and the sort of person he is well you know what though he is right about
JVL00:53:33the casting oh he was right he was right as a this is as i said this is the part john c reilly was was born to play yeah and can we talk a little bit about the the lakers qua the lakers yeah and the because this really was the moment when the nba took off and it took off for a couple reasons you had two legitimate dynasties in the the celtics celtics and the lakers um and you had
Sonny00:54:04a couple other really good in the 1980s like either the lakers or the celtics was in the finals
JVL00:54:10every every single year i think i think that's yeah and i think they they won all but maybe two of them where i think the the sixers had one championship in 83 i think uh and maybe portland
Sonny00:54:25did the pistons win like 89 90 the pistons start winning when i'm in high school
JVL00:54:30uh so i don't know if it's 89 90 or like 90 91 um and they have a brief window before the bulls then emerge but part of it is that it was very high quality basketball because you had a concentration of talent on the teams right which is the the big thing at the bottom of the nba it was very bad basketball because there just wasn't enough talent but at the top right i mean these teams were stacked absolutely stacked you know i mean you look at the celtics and the lakers and those teams each have like three guys each team has three guys who are in the nba all 50 team yeah which is nuts right and uh and they played a very attractive style basketball they were fun to watch bird and magic had this rivalry dating back to college right uh bird and magic again two top 10 all-time nba players in the same like college year which is nuts uh and that i mean also basketball is a really good tv product i think it's it's a better tv product than baseball is in many ways uh it's not as good as a radio product but it really works well on tv and as people were starting to need to fill more hours of television right basketball was there right and that because this is the cable revolution creates just more hours of content needed to be produced every year and so sports leagues all sports leagues were going to be pulled along into that uh and so it makes sense of course that the nba became what it did uh and then it just you know like rocket fuel once jordan got there yeah because that was like everybody's chance to see babe ruth right something you know like you never get to do right nobody ever gets to see babe ruth so uh and it became global right and that's the other thing jordan did is jordan opened up the chinese market and yeah i mean basketball is so big globally that basketball cards basketball trading cards are much much hotter than baseball trading cards and the reason is because the demand is all driven by china so like all this chinese money gets poured into buying up like you know the lebron james rookie photo one of one right stuff like that yeah so i don't know i mean i love those i loved watching those teams yeah i loved watching worthy and magic and kareem loved watching bird i mean i hated bird because the celtics were in the were in the east with the sixers but you know like dennis johnson and bird and robert parish the chief and bill i mean it was just kevin mckayle it was just great like that was that was a great era of the nba
Vic00:57:22i'll tell you what fascinates me too watching this is what it must be like and this is obvious i know you have thoughts on this um when you're a player if you know and you come from a very poor background and you know you're going to be you know you're going to be drafted one or two and that you're on the cusp of millions or in that case i mean back in 79 like 500 500 000 600 whatever is a lot of money and what that must be like because you're not living that life just yet you know he's still there the family is still the father's running the garbage routes he still works for gm i think or ford you know and the assembly line never missed a day and and he's still in that world but not for long it's got to be a weird thing and you know it almost it makes me worry because you know like he wants to have a you know play a pickup game you know it's supposed to do something stupid like you know you know roll over your you know ankle or do something terrible or whatever but it's it's just it's it strikes me as surreal when i when when i'm watching this because they're seeing him and they're still you know he's got his college sweetheart
JVL00:58:31you know and that is all about to change obviously yeah it's really it's weird um i mean the other so i i don't know you guys i have fallen away from the nba and i fell away after the sixers traded alan iverson that was when i just gave up on the nba sunny you stayed with
Sonny00:58:51through kobe's run right basically after kobe retired i was like yeah and i feel a little bit
JVL00:58:58bad because from what i can tell the nba as it exists today is at a high watermark like the the actual level of play is just totally different and better and more beautiful and all that but the other thing that has happened to the nba is that the league has basically been taken over by the players it is the nba was always more of a players league than any other but the players really run it now and they decide where they want to play and they make little clicks and a lot of this has to do with the economic structure of the nba uh has to do with guaranteed contracts the way free agency works but the other thing is that the nba is unlike the other sports where three guys can decide together that they're going to play together and that's enough to win a championship yeah not always yeah but you know this is simply not the way it is in hockey or football or baseball and so in the nba you have almost it's almost like real life professional wrestling where there are storylines with beefs and alliances and stables uh that's i mean that that's why i actually don't care about
Sonny01:00:11the nba anymore like i have the exact opposite response to jbl i kind of hate that it would be like if back in 90 or back in like 84 magic and larry bird we're like you know what we should be on the same team together yeah no i don't like that either
JVL01:00:23when i say the level is higher i just meant the actual the play play on the court um the guys are bigger they're faster uh yeah the the i mean the numbers like big data has started eating the nba as well um but on the other hand it's the only league where you have things like james harden yeah i don't know if you guys have followed this right so you had uh ben simmons this superstar guard in philadelphia who just refused to play and james harden who was not refusing to play in new jersey um but was like basically like you know intentionally bricking it constantly uh because they just neither of them wanted to play in their organizations anymore and they said and it's a weird thing and kind of interesting in its own way i i again i hate it i mean like
Sonny01:01:16i just think it's i think it's contrary to the spirit of sport
JVL01:01:19i think it is like anti-sport well i don't know i mean it is it is the the absolute opposite of the nfl where the institutions meaning the teams have so much power that the contracts aren't actually contracts they're these one-sided i the nfl drives me insane the idea that there is a contract between the organization and the player but the organization can choose to terminate the contract at any point at once or to insist on renegotiating the contract at any point at once it's like well why even what what the hell is happening here right that's too much
Sonny01:01:53that's better no it's better it's not turning turning turning the players into serfs
JVL01:01:58that belong to the land no magusta um but i think baseball is closer to having it right right the the competitive balance you need um but what's happening in there i don't know i mean do you guys ever watch uh jokic nicola jokic the the the this big eastern european galoot from uh who plays in denver you guys don't have never seen him i i like have i couldn't i i've
Sonny01:02:24not watched 30 minutes of a basketball game in the last five years he's like six foot ten and
JVL01:02:31he's doughy looking and he runs the floor and he has the court sense of larry bird i mean he throws these these passes that make your eyes fall out of your head you know and and you have uh the seth curry um steph curry who is you know has has broken the nba all-time three-point mark and he still has time left on his career i mean there's just yeah the level of play is very high i just can't get it up for it anymore and it's it was because the sixers were so bad for so long
Sonny01:03:05and uh yeah they broke my heart i mean the lakers the lakers have lebron james right now in theory i should be like very very and i just like i'm just not i'm just not into it i'm just not into it but
Vic01:03:17this show and we're into the show good show you know this is one where even though we're not going to be following it i i'm looking forward to the next episode yeah i'm gonna watch it once more
JVL01:03:26ways than one once more the max made the best of the streaming services yeah hbo max is clearly
Vic01:03:33the superior streaming service like nobody would deny yeah versus like i mean think about the stuff
JVL01:03:37you talk about with netflix well dip but disney disney i think is a close second but netflix is such a distant third yeah or fourth maybe i mean now like honestly who needs i put hulu in front of me i might well except that hulu is really disney right you get them bundled together for the same price essentially i mean it's like a dollar more technically different
Sonny01:03:58yeah it's like three bucks more but the but the i mean it's it hulu hulu is a different thing it is but it has better it has better stuff than netflix by far i mean i like there there i've watched more series on netflix especially the around on hulu especially the fx hub of hulu that blows netflix out of the water i honestly if it wasn't if i was not uh if i was not a professional writer of cultural criticism i would not have a netflix subscription totally i would cancel it okay uh
Vic01:04:29do we have any uh spirit of the week corrections or shout outs no uh the gabby hoffman thing i was
Sonny01:04:35thinking of by the way uh she was in the movie come on come on this year which was very good and she was also uh on like three two or three seasons of girls so um she was she was good on how intriguing which i i always like how intriguing she is i'm saying intriguing and uh
Vic01:04:54okay and and folks i just uh uh make sure you tune in to a very interesting bonus episode coming out on monday oh that's gonna be good it's gonna be good it's gonna be timely do we tell them what it's about or no sonny we're talking about the oscars yeah we're talking about the oscars very exciting very very exciting that is all the time we're giving to this episode questions comments compliments tweet us at sonnybunch at victorina mattis again be sure to subscribe to us on patreon just go to subbeacon.com we are there tell your friends until next time
Sonny01:05:27all right what do you got i don't know i got a lot i'm glad we all like that show i was afraid that it was
Vic01:05:43no i mean again i you know the things that i think we agree on the things that we don't like which is sort of on the technical aspects of particularly the adam mckay episode which has beat me over the and it's like more fourth wall than not anymore and it was like it worked i liked it in the big short oh this is unusual ish because they're doing all these things that's over but it's over
JVL01:06:05like two hours that's the problem when you're doing this this is gonna be 10 hours of that right and do we need it do we need 10 hours of this i feel like this is like the last dance i don't know how far are we you know the bulls dynasty i mean it's been that's right
Sonny01:06:18it's been two it's been it's been two episodes and they haven't even started playing magic johnson and no he hasn't started and that works it's worked this should be like four episodes no no it's it's it's perfectly paced so far trust trust the plan trust the program wait till he meets like you know all you
Vic01:06:38know the the nba group are we gonna get a full episode on kurt rambis hopefully
Sonny01:06:44Vick before we go I just want to I want to tease you please you you are going to greatly enjoy the movie deepwater oh yes so that's a movie or a series and Ben Affleck Ana de Armas you had me you had me at Anna directed by Adrian line the director of fatal attraction I can't believe he's that I can't believe I still around dance he hasn't made a movie in 20 years he made a special one back now
Vic01:07:14this is good it's gonna crush the quadrants huh is she wearing the silver
JVL01:07:17dress from the the bond movie she's I hope she's wearing the outfit that she
Vic01:07:24wore and as a hologram and Blade Runner okay I'm sure it's fine
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