#86. 'Pam and Tommy' Bonus
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This bonus episode digs into the first four episodes of Hulu's Pam and Tommy, the dramatization of the 1996 Pamela Anderson/Tommy Lee sex-tape leak starring Sebastian Stan, Lily James, Seth Rogen (as put-upon carpenter-turned-thief Rand Gauthier), Nick Offerman (as a porn distributor), and Andrew Dice Clay (as mob muscle). JVL bailed after episode one, calling it a bloated slog with "seven minutes of story in a 52-minute episode" and refusing to watch further, while Sonny, further along at episode four, is more engaged - he likes the leads and singles out episode two, covering Pam and Tommy's courtship, as especially good - though he shares JVL's frustration that every episode stretches roughly ten minutes of actual plot into forty-plus, which they chalk up to streaming platforms getting paid on total minutes watched rather than completions. Vic, who's furthest along and clearly the most invested, pushes back hardest on the show's moral framing, arguing it works too hard to make Rand a sympathetic victim when he's really just a guy who stole a private tape and shopped it around town. That launches a longer tangent tracing the tape's place in internet history as arguably the medium's first viral leak - contrasted with Rob Lowe's tape and Marilyn Monroe's nudes, which never spread the same way, and with Paris Hilton and then Kim Kardashian, who turned similar leaks into deliberate career strategy - plus digressions on Motley Crue's music, the Dirt miniseries, and Pamela Anderson's underrated syndicated show V.I.P. The episode opens, fittingly, with Vic still visibly hungover days into a self-described bender, recounting a slow-cooked pork shoulder from the weekend before the trio dives in.
From the show notes
The definition of a quadrant-killer.
Full transcript
Vic00:00:00Hello, and welcome to another edition of bonus episode of the Sub-Beacon. I'm Victor Matus along with Jonathan V. Last and Sonny Bunch. Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is now available through Patreon. Go to subbeacon.com, you'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends. This is several days later now, you're listening to the bonus episode, so you know. And Vic is still drunk.
Sonny00:00:34I've just been drinking for the last five days. Vic has been on an actual bender. He's been-
Vic00:00:40It's an actual bender. And you know what I forgot to mention I did over the weekend? I slow cooked a pork shoulder. I did that, it was very easy, 225 degrees for six hours, and you can make a nice pulled pork sandwich out of that. It was so soft and moist. Speaking of which, today we're talking about Pam and Tommy. I mean really, we're basically having a, thank you JVL, he's pointing, he's shooting it, I knocked it out of the park. We are talking about, this is a series on Hulu that's basically a porno on Hulu.
JVL00:01:13It's a series about a porno.
Vic00:01:15Yes, but it basically is in weird ways. Okay so- I have a quick- What is going on here? Sonny, go.
Sonny00:01:22Well, so we're talking about Pam and Tommy. We're talking about Pam and Tommy and that's, it's on Hulu. It's about. It's about. It is about the, it is about how the Pamela Anderson Lee, Tommy Lee sex tape found its way into the world. And we can talk about all that in a second, but I do have a question for you guys. So I'm watching it on Hulu, full nudity, but there are weirdly commercial break breaks in it. Yes. Yeah. Is this, is this just a function of like people who watch Hulu, they, I guess this is it. It's people who watch Hulu with ads because I don't, I like two tiers. I pay, I pay for the, I pay for the ad free tier. And this is all very confusing to me because I'm like, why, why are there ad breaks in
JVL00:02:11this? And you can, if you look, if you are on the premium tier with no ads and you look at the little line at the bottom showing the progress, you can see where the breaks are going to be. Segmented. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. I never watch Hulu and I still pay for the premium tier because I'm offended. No. By TV commercials.
Sonny00:02:26I, I actually watch Hulu a lot. Hulu has been really good recently. There's been only murders in the building, um, uh, all the stuff on FX, uh, what we do in the shadows, et cetera. I like. Oh, FX is on Hulu. FX is on Hulu.
JVL00:02:39Okay.
Sonny00:02:40FX is on Hulu. So like I've been, I've actually been getting a lot of use out of my, uh, FX and Hulu. Uh, the, uh, the, the res reservation dogs is another really good show. That's on Hulu, uh, hard recommend, hard recommend. It's like, it's like a, it's like. Um, it's a FX comedy that's set on an Indian reservation. It's very, it's very funny. I.
JVL00:03:01Hulu is part of the Disney empire. You know, we were, we were talking about, could Disney do a hard R. Right. We were talking about another, another, uh, Deadpool movie. Right. And, uh, you had said, well, that maybe after resurrect Buena Vista, maybe Hulu becomes an outlet for something like that. Right.
Sonny00:03:21Yeah. I mean, they still own 20th century studios. They would do it under 20th century studios. The home would be Hulu. But what's interesting. So like, we're, we're gonna, we'll get to, we'll get to Pam and Tommy eventually here, but what's interesting is, uh, all of the Fox acquisitions, uh, by, by Disney, except for West side story, um, are showing up on HBO max. Like the last duel is on HBO max, uh, um, uh. Uh, nightmare alley is on HBO max and Hulu. There's like a weird, weird.
JVL00:03:58With the great Cate Blanchett who, uh, who is probably the finest actress alive today.
Sonny00:04:04She's so good. And people who don't like Cate Blanchett, I find very, I find untrustworthy, frankly.
JVL00:04:10I don't, I don't know.
Sonny00:04:11You really can't trust them. Um, uh, but, uh, but a bunch of, but a bunch of this stuff is winding up on HBO max and I'm not sure if it has to do with deals that existed prior to the merger or whatever, or if it's. Just like Disney doesn't know what to do with them. Disney doesn't have any idea what to do with them. So they're, they're dumping them over there. Can't put the last duel on Disney plus cannot put the last on Disney plus.
Vic00:04:37So Pam and Tommy, uh, that's, you know, it's, uh, can we get the gene review? No, I didn't. I didn't do one. I said, I want to get to the end, but, uh, it's, it's quite something. It's very, you know, is, is it just, is it, is it just because it's a Seth Rogen thing to have male nudity in your face? Is it kind of a thing? Is that, is that, is that the stuff it's really quite so, and I understand it's all prosthetics. I understand that also it's like, yeah, there's a lot of nudity. Is that really Lily James's, but is the whole thing prosthetic and Lily James or is only parts of her? That's prosthetic.
Sonny00:05:13I would assume that as a prosthetic on Lily James, basically Pam Anderson too, but you
Vic00:05:18know, uh, thank you. Uh, it's, but it's interesting. Anybody knows about what happened, right? About the sex tape that came out at the dawn of the internet and how it went viral before things went viral. I, it's a very interesting movie. Um, I think that it's, I feel, it's not a movie, it's a series, it's a TV series.
Sonny00:05:40And here's, all right, so here's my, here's my big issue with Pam and Tommy is that there are now four episodes out. There are four episodes out. I assume you guys have just watched the first three or maybe even less.
JVL00:05:52I'm almost, I'm midway. I watched one.
Vic00:05:54Oh, okay. Oh, the two is good. You should trust me on two.
JVL00:05:57That's where it's just the same thing about a Boba Fett.
Vic00:06:00No, no. Two is Pam and Tommy and how they met. It's all about them. And it's really interesting.
Sonny00:06:07Here's here's the problem with this.
JVL00:06:08Should I go to daily lotion to look for that? Yeah, you could basically do that, but it's here's okay.
Sonny00:06:13Here's the problem. Here's the problem with this whole series is that I've now watched four episodes.
Vic00:06:18I'm up to four.
Sonny00:06:19I'm up to four. I've watched four episodes and every. Every single thing that happens in those four episodes. So like this, this, this thing is structured in the way that all terrible things on streaming are structured and that it is way too long. It's way too long. So everything that happens in each of these episodes should be 10 minutes in a movie. Basically every, everything that happens in this, in this, in this series, each episode should be 10 minutes in a movie. And I say this. So the first episode is all about a leaked videotape, uh, but, uh, but so the first episode is all about, uh, Rand Gaultier, who was the Seth, who was played by Seth Rogen, um, who was a, he's a carpenter. He gets stiffed by Tommy Lee on the, uh, the remodel of his house. Uh, Tommy Lee steals his tools. So Rand steals the, he steals a safe that, that has a bunch of weapons and this really is a true story. Yeah. Um, and that whole segment should be like the first 10 or 12 minutes of the movie, a lot of backs. Uh, and then there's like the meeting of Pam and Tommy, which is all of episode two. And this, again, it's like 45 minutes long and this should be like 10 minutes in the movie. It should be, it should be a 10 minute segment of the film there. They're falling in love and getting together and, and all that, the third, the third episode is, uh, is. Is about Rand and, uh, Nick Offerman plays a CD, CD porn director who's fantastic. He's fantastic in this, uh, trying to figure out how to like sell this thing and like Pam and Tommy are having their issues and she is trying to, she's trying to become a movie star.
Vic00:08:09Yeah. Barb wire.
Sonny00:08:11If you remember every, everything that happens in that, that episode should be about 20 minutes maybe. Cause there is actually a fair amount of stuff that's going on. And then in the fourth episode, the fourth episode, which is the one that I saw last week, uh, last night, it, it, the, the, the 10 minutes. The tape is out there and everybody's watching it and Pam and Tommy realized it's out there and like go on the internet and see, and again, this should be like 10 minutes, this should be like 10 minutes of the movie. Um, and it is very frustrating to watch. So JBL, you've watched the first episode, uh, is, am I wrong to say that everything happens four times?
JVL00:08:45Or more. I, I finished it and I just thought you couldn't pay me enough to watch another one of these things. This, this whole thing should have been, as you said, seven. There is seven minutes of story in a 52 minute episode one.
Sonny00:08:58It's, it's, it's, it's infuriating. It's infuriating to watch. You know what's weird?
Vic00:09:02There were a number of shots in the first episode, again, I liked the second episode a lot and third and I'm into the fourth, but in the first episode there were a lot of shots that were just these like long camera shots of Seth Rogen just looking at Seth Rogen. Yeah.
JVL00:09:19And it was just like, he's, he's using a nail gun.
Vic00:09:21Yeah. No.
JVL00:09:23And he's just like, he's walking, he's driving home. We, we get, we get a, a huge like drone shot of him driving home from Malibu.
Vic00:09:32Yeah. Yeah.
JVL00:09:34Right. And then driving inland and then he walks into his apartment and he goes to the freezer.
Vic00:09:40Yeah.
JVL00:09:41Then he sits down then after his cable was cut, he calls the cable company and we get his conversation on the phone with a cable representative.
Vic00:09:51Why is this? Why is this? Period. Because they give them a lot of money. It is, it is.
Sonny00:09:56No, no, it is this because it's a, it's a series on a streaming network and everything has to be four times longer than it needs to be. I mean, like, I, like.
Vic00:10:04Because they're promising. How many episodes is this show going to be? I don't know. You know why?
JVL00:10:08I actually don't know. Well, here, here's why. I actually don't know. It's because they measure these things by total user minutes watched. And so instead of, instead of doing a five, you know, 5 million people watch all 90 minutes of it. They are happy to have, uh, 2 million people watch 300 minutes of it. And that by their metrics becomes more successful.
Sonny00:10:34Sure.
JVL00:10:35Yeah. And so who cares if it means fewer people watch as long as they're watching more minutes.
Sonny00:10:40It's it is, it is really, really frustrating to watch because I like, I actually kind of like the show. I mean, yeah, I find it intriguing. I kind of like the series. I like the actors. I like Lily James. I like, um. Sebastian Stan. What's his name? Yeah.
Vic00:10:54Sebastian Stan.
Sonny00:10:55I hate. Who was also in Craig Killespie's, uh, Tanya Harding movie. I Tanya. He played the, the bad boyfriend.
Vic00:11:03Oh really? I am. I'm, I would, that's like the superhero who I liked the least was Winter Soldier. I didn't like. And so I'm like, I didn't know much about Sebastian.
Sonny00:11:11Tommy spy. He's a, okay.
Vic00:11:13Yeah. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't like him and it was just like that. And so, uh, when I saw him as Tommy Lee, I thought he really inhabited that. It's funny. They're all Brits. You know what I mean? He's doing an impression though. I still liked it. And I liked it cause it was much. Is he acting or is he doing an impression? It's a very good impression. It's good. Cause I, yeah, sure. I'll take the impression because it was better than Winter Soldier. And uh, and, and I, I, I totally believed it. And of course, and he really comes off as kind of, you know, this, this real asshole, except for in the second or third episode, you did, I developed at least a little bit of sympathy. I mean, it's, you know, like there's a whole other side to him. So it's like the first episode is really from Seth Rogan's point of view. Point of view about what this guy is like, which is he's a real jerk.
Sonny00:11:56And then. Can we talk about that? Which part? Can we talk about this? Because I, I think there is, I think there is a gaping moral void at the middle of this entire enterprise, which is, which is the, the effort to turn Ran Gaultier and into some sort of like misunderstood, like, oh, he, he was, he was abused by Tommy Lee. So he, you know, was just trying to get his, he had this, he had this girl, he had this wife. Trying to get back together with the wife is the porn star humiliated him. And you know, like, and like the, the, the effort to turn this guy who is a straightforward creep. Yeah. Who stole, who stole, who stole, who, who took a private sex tape and tried to sell it all around town. And thank God for the decency of the hardworking pornographer, thank God, thank God, thank God. Thank God for the folks at vivid and new sensations and everywhere else who said, no, we, we are, we are too upstanding to take your stolen sex tape that nobody has signed releases on and, and, and put it out there because it is he, I, I like, I actually, I actually find the show slightly offensive. I am offended by it.
JVL00:13:14Cause it's intellectual property theft, which is the thing Sonny cares about more than anything else.
Sonny00:13:18No, but it's not, no, but it's, it's not actually the, the, the, the foundation of this
Vic00:13:23moral outreach.
Sonny00:13:24There's actually the IP. There is, there's, there's actually a scene about, no, it's actually very funny though. There's a scene about that in the fourth episode where, uh, Seth Rogen ran, ran Gautier comes across somebody who was selling bootleg copies. Oh, oh, he's out of his sex tape and he's like, how dare you, how dare you do this? And this is, this is a violation you're going to get in a lot of trouble. And I just sat there thinking, you asshole, you are the, you are the, and, and like the, the show is, the show is intentionally doing that now, but it's, but it's not, it's not even intellectual property. It is, it is, it is just like, I actually like the, when, when, remember when the fappening happened?
JVL00:14:05Oh, sure. I don't, I don't remember that at all. What was that? Sonny?
Sonny00:14:10The hacked, you know, nude photos that were put on the internet. That sounds terrible. I was, I was, I actually thought it was terrible. I thought it was terrible. So did Vic.
Vic00:14:24It's a violation.
Sonny00:14:25It's a violation. This is, this is an actual, like this is an actual real privacy violation. It's like a really disgusting thing. It's horrible. It's really horrible. So I could tell you, I could tell you feel very bad for all these people.
JVL00:14:35I feel for Emma Watson. I mean, Emma Watson did not deserve to have those pictures of her all over the internet.
Vic00:14:41You can't even, no, I, you know what? I never saw them because there's so many fake ones you go in and then all of a sudden you get hacked. So I said, forget it. Not worth it. After so many times I had all these, you know, problems with my computer, I said, I can't do it anymore. Can't take those chances. Uh, no. I love that by the way. And so this is not in the first episode, but it must be in the second or the third where they want to shop around the hot tape, right? The high eight of, of Pam and Tommy. And the funniest thing is they go, where do they go? They go to the pinnacle of porn first, which is like the classes and the guy's wearing there. He's well-dressed and everything.
JVL00:15:15And Steve Hirsch who made Vivi what they are, I think is an MBA and like he's, he's a businessman. Yeah.
Vic00:15:22Yeah. Yeah. And then of course the guy's like, you're insane. I'm not going to do this. You know, we're going to get you, you get sued. And then they slowly worked their way down the ladder and it just gets seedier and seedier and seer. And even the guys on the bottom rung are like, no, we don't want to do this. And then that's how they end up with the idea of going through the internet. And then they have to go through, you know, a mob connection for funding when the mobsters played by Andrew Dice Clay, uh, I, I, again, I find it interesting. It's dirty. It's a, I was talking to Matt continuity about this. Um, yeah. At dinner. Cause I asked him if he had seen it and gold, gold for Pat and I, I told Mike, he's got to see this movie. This is good. You know, but I told him he's been busy, but, uh, but then I told Matt and Matt, Matt said he was, he was disgusted by it. It was disgusting.
Sonny00:16:06So he was disgusted. He was like, he had watched it and he was, he watched all four episodes so far, multiple
Vic00:16:13times disgusted. Every time.
JVL00:16:15It's just awful. I can't believe, in fact, he had to go back and watch it again.
Vic00:16:23Oh no, not again. Uh, yes. Sonny, what are you going to say?
Sonny00:16:28I don't know. I like, I actually, I, I, I think it's interesting. The thing I, the thing I had kind of forgotten, I guess, was how, how early in the internet this was because I like, I, you know, when, when all of this was going on, I guess I was 13, 14. So I like had, it was like slightly before my time really.
Vic00:16:50It was 1996.
JVL00:16:51It was 1996.
Vic00:16:52So I, can we talk about.
JVL00:16:53Yeah. The Pam and Tommy tape as a cultural artifact, because it's pretty interesting. I think, uh, cause that's the first moment where the internet makes something which has always existed and existed in ways which even when people knew it was ex knew it existed, they couldn't see it or find it. And now it, it, uh, it spreads it for forever because the, the fundamental principle of
Sonny00:17:22the internet. Right. It lowers marginal costs to zero.
JVL00:17:26And so, you know, as long as we have had cameras and, and film recorders and then video recorders, uh, you've had stuff like this, right? There's the famous Rob Lowe tape that, you know, he made a sex tape mentioned it's mentioned in the, and I think one of the later episodes, the, the, the Marilyn Monroe photos, right? This is, you know, all, all of these silver screen stars from the forties, fifties and sixties. Right. There were naked pictures of them floating around because the casting directors forced them into a writing director as a producers, um, but they were never disseminated, right? Or to the, in the extent of Marilyn Monroe, right? That's how Playboy was launched because Hugh Hefner went and found a cache of Marilyn Monroe nudes and he stood up a magazine around them and that's what made Playboy so instantly successful. Yeah.
Vic00:18:15And this is the jokes.
JVL00:18:18This is the first time the Pam and Tommy where, where the internet. Let take something like that and makes it accessible to everybody. And in rapid succession, we have three of these things. We have Pam and Tommy, then we have Paris Hilton and then we have Kim Kardashian. So the Paris Hilton one, it's unclear if it was intentional or not. The Kim Kardashian one seems to absolutely have been intentional. Clearly. And so you go from, you know, this is like the most American thing ever, right? Right. This thing happens by accident and people are victimized by it, but then they fear how to make money off of it. The next person, when, when they are victimized by it being Paris Hilton, uh, figured out very quickly how to make a ton of money. I mean, they don't have to like, they there's a playbook part. And then for the third person, they decide to like skip the accidental part, just go straight to the making money and that's, that's pretty interesting. Yeah. As a, an example of how, how capitalism and technology and social more mores all mix up and start shaping each other. And what's interesting is that in no, no step of this progression, is there ever any shame attached to anything? Right. I mean, they're Pam and Tommy may have felt violated, but nobody's ashamed. Nobody is scandalized by it. But nobody is like, oh boy, I can't believe people, you know, it's just, well, she is, it's an intrusion of privacy.
Sonny00:19:59I think she, I think she legitimately was, I, I, there's, I like, you know, you know, I don't think he cared. I don't think he cared, but I think she was, I think she was shocked and taken aback by it. And there, there's a scene later in the show where she's, you know, it's like, but like it, that, that could be, that could very well be an invention for the, but like, I do think again, from what I remember, this is, this is all again, slightly like I was not, I was not really up on this as a, as a 14 year old or whatever, but like, I remember, I, I remember, I remember her being like, it's just not, not into it, not into it. Certainly in the way, not in the way that like Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian was.
?00:20:45Right.
JVL00:20:46I kind of say, I mean, I have always had a soft spot for Pam Anderson, uh, both as a public figure. As an actress, honestly, like barbed wire is kind of like a crazy mess of a thing. And Pam Anderson is a, a very specific type of cultural commodity, which is a sex bomb. Right. Like that's all, all she was, you know, but she grew into more than that. Right. She became sort of a cultural touchstone. She actually became like an okay, sort of interesting actress to do what it was. She does. Um, and I don't know, she always seemed kind of sweet for, for somebody who was being used by the culture.
Vic00:21:21Believe it or not. It comes out in the later episodes of her side of it comes out of it. And the other interesting thing is, um, for Tommy Lee talking about like, you know, is she the one was talking to his member about, is she the one, but he goes through the list and of all the women that he'd been with prior to that. And it's so fascinating, these names, these blasts from the past, because of course it was Heather Locklear, you know, he's been married like five times with all these names of people that you've just forgotten. Thought about. And then with, with, with Pam Anderson, uh, the same thing where they're, they're, you know, a girlfriend, excuse me, mentions about how she was with Scott Baio, you know, which is, that's early, early on.
JVL00:22:05And he ends up with these guys for several years and it's just wasted. That's how crazy crazy LA was in the eighties.
Vic00:22:10Yeah. Right, right. Exactly. Um, the other interesting thing is of course, when this happened to them in their careers, they had a lot of money, obviously, excuse me, my throat. Uh, but Tommy Lee was his professionally, his career was already down here.
JVL00:22:27I was amazed that he, he hadn't pissed away all his money. I found a shock in the Tommy, Tommy Lee was together enough not to have blown everything.
Sonny00:22:39Well, Motley crew, I mean like there, there's a line in the, the show, but monthly crew sold like 60, 70 million albums.
JVL00:22:45Oh yeah. I understand. But, but also you can, you can go through that money.
Sonny00:22:50Yeah. And they, and they went, I, yeah. No. True. But I mean they went on tour. I like, I, they, they made, they made an, an, an enormous amount of money. And also like she at the time was on Baywatch. She was like, you know, probably making a couple million bucks a year doing, doing Baywatch
JVL00:23:07stuff. Did, uh, did, did you guys think back to the dirt? Yes. I found it very helpful. And the dirt, uh, which is an authorized fictional of Motley crew of, of Motley crew. Their portrayal of Tommy Lee, it was, it was very funny because their patrol was that he's just this sweet kid who just loves, he's in love with being in love. Right. And he's just, he's a sweet kid. He's a lover, not a fighter and that this, I mean, he's basically just a psychotic asshole. Right.
Vic00:23:43Although little bits of it come out later in the later episodes where he turns, you know, he talked about his Greek side, his family and other things come out. So again, it gets more interesting.
Sonny00:23:52The first episode, the first episode, which is all from Rand's perspective, did not like it. He's like clearly like a total dirtbag asshole, but like as the show goes along, he, he is, he is treated more sympathetically. I don't know. I like when he lays out missing, you're not missing out on anything by not watching the rest of the episodes JBL because every single episode I've watched so far, I've been like, this could have been 10 minutes. This could have been 10 minutes long. It doesn't need to be this long. And it's very frustrating. Being on that level, but it is also like I have 40 minutes to kill on a Wednesday night or whatever.
Vic00:24:29Yeah. I never have that problem. Well, no, for me is I feel like I'm fully, I feel like I'm too invested in it. I want to see how it ends per se. How is it that Rand Gautier does not end up getting sued and going to jail for this? You know what I mean? Like how does it, or how is it that they didn't connect the dots and say onto the moon, they
Sonny00:24:47should crash the moon into the earth.
Vic00:24:50It all comes together. So, I mean, I find that part of it interesting. But again, it's interesting that it's happening now because you know what the other thing is now it's Tommy Lee and Motley Crue and this whole thing with Pearl Jam is coming on together because they make a reference to this in the show talking about where he's watching TV and there's a passing reference to how, you know.
Sonny00:25:14They're watching the behind the music. Behind the music of Motley Crue. They're watching the Motley Crue behind the music.
Vic00:25:18And how, you know, now it's all about the Seattle sound and this whole thing and he's got that and whatever. And now, of course, now in actual time, in our time, it's back in the news.
Sonny00:25:27Well, there was an interview with, what's his name, the lead singer from Pearl Jam. Eddie Vedder. Eddie Vedder. And Eddie Vedder was like, you know, I hated the sexualization of women and Motley Crue videos and the Motley Crue guys were like, we hate your fucking music. Fuck you, man. It's like.
Vic00:25:45Well, they were like, oh, now that we know that you're, you know, that we were much more edgier than, you know, like getting criticized by you is, it's cool.
JVL00:25:51I got to say, as somebody who, who has listened to a lot of this stuff over the last couple of years, as flash has gotten into that more and more and more into guitar world and all that stuff, Motley Crue sucks like compared to Metallica and Van Halen and guns and roses and Bon Jovi.
Sonny00:26:19Well, nobody, nobody.
JVL00:26:21Motley Crue is, is just garbage music.
Sonny00:26:24Well, Motley Crue is, is pop, is pop metal. It's like not, it's not, it's not, but yeah, no, I mean, well, there's nobody like Kirk Hammett from Metallica. There's nobody like, um, slash from guns and roses, like there's like, those are, those
JVL00:26:39are like actually from Tommy leader, Richie Sambora. How funny is that? Yeah.
Sonny00:26:44Yeah. She made a good choice.
JVL00:26:46She did make a good choice. But, but that's what I'm saying. Bon Jovi is a pop group too. And Bon Jovi is very much. Yeah. I don't use it. I don't.
Sonny00:26:54Yeah. I don't think of this. Did you guys ever watch VIP? No. Pamela Anderson's like, Oh, I didn't watch Baywatch.
JVL00:27:01I'm sorry. Yes.
Sonny00:27:03I did watch that. It's her, her like post Baywatch syndicated show. I always thought that that was a million times better. Like Baywatch Baywatch never made any sense to me. I never understood it. I didn't, I didn't want so much sense to me. Yeah. I was 12. Didn't appeal to me on any level. But VIP was like, Oh, it's, it's hot. It's hot ladies, but there's actually a story here. It's not just, they're not just like on a beach.
JVL00:27:30The joy of Pamela Anderson is that she is in on the joke. Yeah. And she's in on the joke in an incredibly charming way.
Sonny00:27:40But see, I think that VIP did that better.
JVL00:27:42I agree. No, I'm not. Yeah.
Sonny00:27:45This is why I preferred that show.
JVL00:27:47I was like, yeah, I was, I was, I'm still a little bit mad. I was mad that the movie version of Baywatch a couple of years ago, put her on camera in the way that they did, which I think did not do her, was not protective enough about her as it should have been.
Sonny00:28:08I can't even remember. I don't even remember that. I barely remember that movie at all.
JVL00:28:12I remember that Thumpka Jansen picture of a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. That, but worse.
Vic00:28:17Well, that's not too bad. All right. I'm going to pass that now. I'll see you later.
Sonny00:28:25All right. I'm sure it's fine. Go to sleep, Vic.
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