#53. 'Squid Game' Episodes 2&3
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This short Patreon-only bonus episode, with no opening banter, dives straight into episodes 2 ("Hell") and 3 ("The Man with the Umbrella") of Squid Game. Sonny is bored by episode 2's wall-to-wall sob-story backstories — he doesn't care about anyone's debts or dead-end lives back in Korea — but loves episode 3 for delivering "actual murder games," especially the nerve-wracking dalgona/honeycomb-carving challenge; he also flags that the ostensibly heroic undercover cop straight-up murders a guard and dumps his body overboard, which spins into a long bit with JVL riffing on the "libertarian dream" of the games as a valid, informed-consent contract (complete with jokes about whether the organizers pay their masked workers a 401k or dodge payroll taxes, and a detour to "Peter Thiel's seasteading island"). JVL counters that episode 2 is actually vital because it establishes the contestants freely chose to return, and separately observes that most of the players seem to have low IQs, with one or two "bad character" exceptions like the doctor and the investment banker. Vic, who has binged well ahead of the others, finds both episodes compelling, compares the show's tonal shift and gang dynamics to HBO's prison drama Oz (name-checking Adebisi and J.K. Simmons's Schillinger), and notes the ominous Blue Danube Waltz cue that plays before each game. All three volley theories about the mysterious old man, Player 001 — JVL is convinced he's "clearly in on it" since he's the only one not gassed in the van — while Vic, already spoiled, teasingly refuses to confirm or deny anything. They close speculating about how the masked, PlayStation-controller-symbol guards are hired, guessing military-prison backgrounds.
From the show notes
If you want to understand the Sub-Beacon, this is the episode that gets you there.
Full transcript
Vic00:00:00Hello and welcome to another bonus Squid game edition of the Sub-Beacon. I'm Victor Matus along with Jonathan V Last and Sonny Bunch. Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is now available through Patreon. Go to subbeacon.com. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe. Tell your friends and yeah, if you subscribe then you get to listen to this bonus episode of Squid Game.
Sonny00:00:35Only for subscribers. Never going to be on iTunes.
Vic00:00:37No, you're never going to know what we think about. And today we're talking about episodes two and three. I believe that's Hell and The Man with the Umbrella. Thoughts? Sonny, go.
Sonny00:00:50So what's interesting about the second and third episodes of Squid Game is how boring the second episode is and how much better the third episode is. And I have to say, I don't care at all about these people and their little problems back in Korea. When I'm sitting there and I'm watching all these people talk about how they don't have any money and they're, oh, they've committed fraud and they want to be-
JVL00:01:21Very sad lives.
Sonny00:01:22Very sad lives. And there's a gangster who was stolen from some, I think they're from your people.
Vic00:01:26Filipino. They're my people. I was so excited. They've stolen from the Filipinos. And he's got a- There is a large Filipino contingent in places like Korea and Hong Kong and whatnot. Yeah. But it was very exciting. Casino.
Sonny00:01:38Yeah. It's true. So I just was bored. I didn't care. I didn't care about any of these people or their problems. And what I was-
JVL00:01:46You just want to watch them die for your pleasure.
Sonny00:01:48All I wanted to watch was the games. I wanted to watch- He's one of the VIPs. This is like if I lived in the Gladiator II. The Gladiator-ing that Ridley Scott is working on right now. And the whole thing was just like, "Okay, and now here's the part where the drafts are going to walk through the stadium and we're just going to look at them." Who cares about that? I don't care about that. I want murder games. I want murder games. And so the third episode was much better because there was more murder games. Oh my goodness.
JVL00:02:16There was just- There was an actual murder game.
Sonny00:02:18It was nerve wracking. And we can talk about the actual murder game here in a second and the form that the murder game took. This is a very ... It feels like a very specifically Korean sort of thing. Yes. I don't know anything about this honeycomb. Yeah.
Vic00:02:32They made it sound like, "Ah, I get it."
Sonny00:02:35Yeah. It seems like it's a thing that people will recognize if they're from there. But there's a thing and there's a little part of the third episode that I wanted to bring up here. And I feel like JVL will have thoughts on this. JVL, did you notice that one of the putative heroes of this story? A police officer just murders a guy, just straight up murders a guy and throws his body over the side of the boat. Wouldn't you say, from your perspective as an all cops are bastards sort of guy, wouldn't you say that this demonstrates just how good and innocent and benevolent that the people running these games are? That you've got all of the ... You've got this cop, he just shows up. Starts killing people using extra judicial force to render a verdict on these guys without any sort of due process and go fucking dirty hairy on everyone. I have to say, I was shocked by this. I was disappointed and I want to get your take on it.
JVL00:03:50Well, I mean, what he should have done is played a children's game with them. So there would be some fairness, fairness, fairness is the most important part. No, I, you know, I, the second episode is actually vitally important. Because it establishes, it gets away from what, what you noted was the big problem with seeing the, the, the circle people as the true heroes that they are. People choose to come back because they, they give people free. Now they kill 250 people first, but after they kill all those people. They give everyone the, the choice to leave and they, they let the democratic process go.
Sonny00:04:31Right. They, they kill, they kill the losers.
JVL00:04:33Sorry. Sorry.
Sonny00:04:35Yes. They killed people. They killed the people who lost the game that they signed up to play, but they were, they
JVL00:04:41were duped.
Sonny00:04:42Yes.
JVL00:04:43I, we, we, we all agree on not a valid contract, uh, but now it is a valid and binding contract because everybody knows what they're getting into. And so, uh, by what Prince, by what limiting principle? Could anyone possibly object to such an arrangement? And shouldn't we in fact have that available right here in America, but you're asking the
Sonny00:05:05big questions. And I like to hear that. I like to hear you thinking outside the box on this.
JVL00:05:09Uh, now I, are you a little concerned about the way that the workers are treated? I mean, the, the, the one, the one guy who gets, uh, they're automaton, they have rules.
Sonny00:05:21There are rules that the workers have to follow. It is not one of the rules. Never take off your mask. Don't let anyone see your face. And you have to have that sort of operational security when you live in a society that is, let's be honest, not entirely just to big business that, you know, if people found out about this, there would be a lot, there'd be lawsuits and the courts would, you know, run rough shot over everybody for the soldiers. That's what I want to know because they get, they get their food, they get their, they get their lodging. Everything.
JVL00:05:53So they get money. Jeez.
Sonny00:05:55I feel like everybody in Korea lives pretty smart and Lee. It's not like people are living on poison islands.
JVL00:06:02No, no, no, no, no. Three hots and a car. That's that's what they get. Uh, what was there for three hots and a car, right? Three. I mean, are they getting a 401k plan? These people, how are they being paid?
Sonny00:06:14Like what is here's a question.
JVL00:06:16Sonny are the 15 one and now we're running this quite large business of the murder games. Are they paying taxes on all the wages for the people whom they are employing? I don't know. That would make them villains if they are tax dodging.
Sonny00:06:28Well, I hope that I hope that we get more on this later in the show. I mean, I'm not, I, we haven't, we've only watched the first three episodes. It's hard to tell. We don't even know. We don't even know. Technically, we don't, we don't even know if this is in Korean territory. It might be an international. What if it's, what if it's, what if it's on a seasteading Island? Yes. What if this, what if this is Peter Thiel's Island where he is, he's running his monkey knife fight games.
JVL00:06:55The libertarian dream, the libertarian dream is right here. It's real and spectacular.
Sonny00:07:00I'm just saying that, like, I think it's, I think it's, uh, I think we need to give it a chance. We need to get, we need to give this system a chance before we judge it too harshly. All right. As a, let's set it, set aside the philosophical points here, which are obviously in favor of the murder games. What about just from the pure storytelling perspective, uh, what did you guys make of these two episodes? Cause again, I was like, I was, I was like, no, not, not doing a bit totally bored by the second episode.
Vic00:07:32I literally just, I was, I was, I find it all compelling. I find the backstory compelling. And although I was annoyed because I, you know, I mean, it beats you over the head. Yes. As soon, you know, we get the treat of when you watch the show, you get to see what the title of the episode is. Some, some shows you have to dig in to find out what their names are like that. Madman was like that. You know, you didn't see it before. It didn't say the name of the show before it goes on, but you saw it and it says hell. Oh, this is, oh my gosh, it's going to be hell. But of course, oh, I get it. Right. Cause hell is the real world. The irony, the irony is, and their lives are just as miserable. And I mean, is it just, is it any worse when a gangster is threatening to carve out your organs, which they can do inside or outside, who knows? So, uh, I get it. And yet I still found it very sad and that people are mean in the, in the real world. And so, yes, I know. And so like, you know, you can't smoke in front of our house or in front of our store, you know, and things of that nature.
Sonny00:08:34Um, uh, here's a, can we just, can we talk about, uh, that guy I, again, I'm not going to buy, I'm not going to even try with the old man names, but the, the, no, the main guy, the guy who was the main Gihoon when he, when he is given, he is somebody comes to him, uh, the, the adoptive father of his, you know, the, the, the new father, his daughter comes to him with money and says, here's money for your sick mother. You can get her the help that she needs. And he says, I will refuse to take this money because you want to take my daughter to a better life in a better country. How dare you? How dare you try to try to improve my daughter's life? I refuse. I refuse your money. I'm going to go back to the murder game.
Vic00:09:16We don't know where she's going in the United States.
Sonny00:09:18It could be a bad neighborhood. We don't know. It can't be worse than Korea, America, every part of America, the worst part of garbage America, the worst gutter that you could live in in America is better than the nicest part of Korea. That I feel very confident about.
Vic00:09:32Thank you. Thank you, Sonny.
Sonny00:09:35Also every other country. This is not related. This is not just Korea.
Vic00:09:38I get the picture. I get the picture. It's also China.
Sonny00:09:41Also Japan. You really did it.
Vic00:09:43I don't know about that. Also the Philippines. Okay. Come on now. We don't have to get personal here. But okay. I get it. You didn't like episode two. But I liked it. And JVL is right. I mean, it's important for the search. To understand. To understand. And as for episode three, yes, so they're all back, unfortunately, but they're a little bit wiser.
Sonny00:10:04Unfortunately. Without them all being back, there would be no show.
Vic00:10:06That's a good point.
Sonny00:10:07Without them all being back to be murder-gamed, there would be no show.
Vic00:10:10What I like about it is that they're wiser and they're not just going to be like, "Oh, we're helpless here." No. Like the North Korean girl, she wants to know what's going on. She's going to snoop around. They all have little plans. I'm going to try to smuggle in a knife, this and that. Pretty exciting stuff. And then, of course, the cop. I like that plot. He's looking for his brother, although the infiltrating thing, as with every movie, I find it very terrifying because they're searching through files or they're doing whatever and then they're going to get caught at any moment. I can't take it. It's very exciting. Anyway, JVL.
JVL00:10:44Yeah, I don't like the show.
Vic00:10:48I know. I feel bad. I feel bad for you. No, it's fine.
JVL00:10:52I've been in the opposite. I had to watch Widows.
Sonny00:10:55What speed are you watching it on?
JVL00:10:57Well, I'm watching it while I'm on the Peloton and I'm watching it on my phone, but I can't watch on high speed because of the subtitles. But yeah, it's like Peloton watching for me. This is the weirdness of it, that there is a comic sensibility to a lot of it. Like the score during the actual murder game in episode three. It's almost like Benny Hill but with people getting shot in the head. But that's just with the violence. What is coming, obviously, is I think they're going to keep turning the screw with each episode to make the murder games more and more personal. It seems pretty obvious to me that the show creator first wanted to shock people and then horrify them. And that we are inching closer and closer to horror, like real horror. And I find that tonally a little dissonant with the comic elements of the piece.
Vic00:12:12No? I know what you're saying. The music was off. It was almost like sort of this, I thought for me in my mind, trying to remember the Umbrella episode. When they're licking the honeycombs and trying to carefully break it off. It was almost like some sort of Hungarian theme with these string instruments in the background. And you're right. And it's off-putting. You know, what's happening and what it turns into eventually is basically Oz. If you watched Oz. Oh yeah. And so you'll have these factions that are going to form in gangs.
Sonny00:12:49Oz the prison show on HBO. Not Wizard of Oz. Right. Or one of the other L. Frank bosses. Right.
Vic00:12:56Adaptation. Thank you. Yes. Oz. Where there are villains, ostensible villains, and then other people you might like who turn out to be even worse than the ostensible villains. And then you'll end up maybe secretly liking the gangster dude or whatever. And that is happening. I mean, I have to confess, I jumped ahead a little bit.
Sonny00:13:18Wait. Wait. Wait. Hold on. Is this Vic's very esoteric way of saying that he likes Schillinger? No.
Vic00:13:26No. No. I liked Adebisi. I liked Adebisi.
Sonny00:13:30From...
Vic00:13:31From...
Sonny00:13:32Yeah.
Vic00:13:33No. JBL, if you have not watched Oz... I like the actor. I like the actor who played him. J.K. Simmons plays a neo-Nazi. Oh, come on now. No. No. No.
Sonny00:13:42No. I don't know. It fits with a lot of other...
Vic00:13:45It fits with a lot of other... It fits with a lot of other Vic's... My favorite was Adebisi. Although my wife did some summer stock with Beecher. Not summer stock. I remember you telling us about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Continue. That's my only take is that I like the ingenuity of it and then, of course, they have this thing... I mean, again, with the weird music and they're playing the Blue Danube Waltz, so it's almost Pavlovian. If they ever hear it anywhere else, they're gonna start shitting their pants like, "Okay, here comes the next game," and what could it be? I mean, there's some... It gets wild.
JVL00:14:17I mean, it'll be one of the things that are on the walls in the dormitory 'cause the dormitory walls, if you notice, in every effing scene... All of the dormitories have pictures of seven different children's games on them.
Vic00:14:28I did not notice that. Really?
JVL00:14:31I've not noticed. Yeah. Just... I mean, it's... This is one of the things that I don't know if it is intentional or maybe I'm misreading, but the people who are playing the game seem to be at the very, very low percentile of the cognitive scale.
Vic00:14:54Well, I mean, again, they probably didn't make a lot of great life decisions.
JVL00:14:59With one or two exceptions.
Sonny00:15:00Like the doctor. No, but...
JVL00:15:02Well, the investment banker. Right. With one or two exceptions of people who have bad character, which led them to bad, these are people who are just not very bright. And you know... Ali. The three guys we're supposed to like most, who formed their little faction, "Well, we'll be like in the military in a barracks." You listen to them and they talk like they are IQ of 80, 85. They just are. They just aren't smart. Right.
Vic00:15:27Yes. Except for it does... I mean, the games and the situations that they are subjected to, I think, will either bring out the best or the worst in them. And you see that. And I'm surprised with Gi-hun and how much more mostly sympathetic I am to him as it
Sonny00:15:42progresses. How far ahead have you watched? I'm up to seven.
Vic00:15:45He's the gangster? You're up to seven? I couldn't stop. The tattoo gangster guy?
Sonny00:15:49I couldn't stop watching. I couldn't stop watching. You are obsessed with this show. You are the reason why this... I know. You are the reason why this show is the international... The everyman. JVL, the everyman cannot stop watching this show, whereas you and I, I'm watching it somewhat ironically just to get my rocks off on being a dick about the anarcho-libertarian within me coming forth. And you hate the show. You think it's trash, but this show is actually the perfect microcosm for the Sub-Beacon. This is the key. This is the key. This is the key to unlocking the Sub-Beacon. Squid Game. Squid Game. Squid Game.
Vic00:16:32It's all coming together. You're going to have to tout that on Twitter so more people will subscribe, because it really is true.
Sonny00:16:37I'll try and pull that as an audio clip.
Vic00:16:41But it's true. I'm totally like, "What's going to happen next?"
JVL00:16:46So Victorino, the old man is in on it, right?
Vic00:16:49No, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not supposed to say... I'm not going to say anything.
Sonny00:16:53I'm not going to say anything. Don't say anything. Don't say anything. We need to experience this.
JVL00:16:56Player one is clearly here. Player one either did the game before and won it, or is the man behind the whole thing.
Vic00:17:03It's really interesting. But I actually wrote it down, JVL, about certain of these characters. There are, much like Transformers, there's more than meets the eye. And obviously, you know, it is not necessarily bad when you end up with the old man on your team, because he seems to bring something to it. Wisdom. Not strength.
JVL00:17:25And of course, his mind. But he knows what's going on. He's clearly in on it. They don't gas him when he gets into the van, everybody else gets gas, but not him. He doesn't get gas because he's not breathing.
Vic00:17:37But okay, I'm just gonna leave it at that. For the show. For the show. You can ask me if you want to know. I'll tell you after. But I'll leave it from here.
Sonny00:17:46Okay. No, I don't want to know anything. No spoilers. You binge on your own.
Vic00:17:51I'm gonna have to rewatch.
JVL00:17:52How do you think the interview process goes? The, what do we call the jumpsuit face shield guys? Is there a square?
Sonny00:18:00I call them the PlayStation guys, because they're like the things on a PlayStation controller.
JVL00:18:04I want that. That'd be a great Halloween outfit. That'd be a great Halloween outfit. How do you interview people for these jobs? Right? I mean, they seem to be at the higher levels, people who have some competence in events management or something.
Vic00:18:16You know what I'll tell you? Military prison. That's my guess.
JVL00:18:19Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. That's the whole thing. Okay.
?00:18:24I'm sure it's fun. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure it's fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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