#42. 'Val'
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The main review is Val, the Amazon Prime documentary assembled from Val Kilmer's own decades of home-shot footage (going back to Juilliard and the sets of Top Gun and Heat) interwoven with present-day scenes of a post-throat-cancer Kilmer speaking through a stoma. Sonny gives the "big boy review," calling it a poignant portrait of an underrated, genuinely funny actor and a strange kind of prophecy for how everyone now documents their own lives on their phones; JVL calls it "a tough watch" but a quite good, unsaccharine documentary about a pure actor (not a movie star) undone by bad career management and, later, illness; Vic, a longtime Kilmer fan, admits it ran a little long but found it hard not to love, especially the Comic-Con signing scenes he calls one of the documentary's low points. Before the review, the trio works through an eventful catch-up: JVL reports on son Flash surfing at the beach (with a Will Ferrell/Old School tangent about teenage ogling), Sonny is nursing a mysterious upper-back injury from holding his toddler wrong, and Vic recounts wet-vaccing his flooded garage until 2am after remnants of Hurricane Fred, plus a long detour into Arlington County's new composting kit (Sonny: he'd rather set himself on fire than compost) and a neighbor kid's glass-recycling side hustle. There's also a chunk of box-office chat, with Sonny dissecting Suicide Squad's brutal 70% second-weekend drop and lowballing Dune's prospects. The episode closes teasing Monday's bonus Val Kilmer draft episode, plus a callback to the earlier "Vic's Oven" tease — a real restaurant in Beaver, PA that a listener discovered shares Vic's name and sports an unfortunately tentacled octopus logo out front.
From the show notes
On this week's episode, Vic has a recycling problem. And a water problem. And a storefront problem. Lotta worries on Vic's mind. And the gang discusses the new documentary Val on Amazon Prime, a poignant look at the actor's career that uses footage he himself shot for decades as the backbone of the story. Make sure to check back on Monday for our special bonus episode: a Val Kilmer draft!
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00My name is Val Kilmer, I'm an actor. I've lived a magical life and I've captured quite a bit of it. I was the first guy I knew to own a video camera. I have thousands of hours of videotapes and film reels that I've shot throughout my life and career. I will keep it on until we're rehearsing. I was recently diagnosed with throat cancer. I'm still recovering and it is difficult to talk and to be understood. But I want to tell my story more than ever.
Vic00:00:54Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Sub-Beacon. I'm Victor Matus along with Jonathan V Last and Sonny Bunch. Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is now available through Patreon. Go to subbeacon.com. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and don't forget about the Sub-Beacon merchandise store at tpublic.com. Gentlemen, how are we? JVL, what's going on?
JVL00:01:18Victorino, you've been holding out on us. About what? About your... Okay. Your storefront? Let's save that for the outtake. Vic's Place? Vic's Place.
Vic00:01:29Yeah. No, it's Vic's Oven. It's Vic's Oven. Vic's Oven. It's Vic's Oven. Oh. A lot of tentacles on that storefront. Oh, come on. We can discuss that later.
Sonny00:01:38We'll get to that. Let's save that.
Vic00:01:40We'll save that. Okay.
JVL00:01:42I mean, that's a hell of a tease for people.
Vic00:01:43That's a great... To grab the end. It's one of the best I'm sure it finds ever. What is going on with you? Anything?
JVL00:01:52Talk to me. I'm down at the beach. Yes. And I took Flash out to surf on the big board. The big board. Oh, yeah. He's outgrown his tween board, and he's ready for a man-sized log. And so... Put him... Phrasing? Is that a problem?
Vic00:02:14That's a... Sonny and I had the same expression. The tilted head. I would say...
Sonny00:02:20Tilted head. Squints. I would say that if you were describing something as a man-sized log... A man-sized log. It belongs in a toilet.
JVL00:02:25Okay. Well, that's better than the other. Anyway, Flash wanted to try the long board, and so I took him out on the long board. And now at age 13, in addition to being faster than me, throwing a baseball harder than me, and hitting a baseball farther than me, he surfs better than me, too. And that was cool. That was cool. But I pulled up... Because you know how Apple photos shoot. Apple shoots the thing like, "Hey, on this date, X number of years ago." Yeah. So I got one of those, and it was actually the day I got my long board, 12 years ago.
Sonny00:03:05Oh, I remember that. I remember that.
JVL00:03:08So I had it on the floor of the place we had down here. And next to me was Flash, who had his own little board, which was a tummy-time mat. Yeah. Because he was five months old and had a tummy-time surfboard mat.
Sonny00:03:30Tummy-time.
JVL00:03:31And the passage of time between watching him go shredding on this thing that I barely even take off the wall anymore, because I just don't have the time to do it effortlessly, but then looking at this thing where yesterday, I remember. I remember him on the tummy-time mat.
Vic00:03:53Whereas the difference of being like 48 and 36 is like, eh, you know. Yeah. It's not much. Yeah.
JVL00:04:03In some ways, I'm better. Anyway. Yeah. But the other thing that's funny to watch is there was a couple of young ladies down here, roughly age-appropriate, not really, they're like three years too old for him, but for Flash. Oh, I thought you were talking to me.
Vic00:04:20Not for you, Victorino. I thought you were talking about me. Yeah.
JVL00:04:24Go ahead. And it is funny to watch the Pavlovian response of the 13-year-old male to, you know, 15 and 16-year-old girls in swimsuits, unlike the Pavlovian response of 48-year-old males. But just the, literally, so this is a sight gag, so people listening will not be able to see this, but, you know, like, they walk by while you're mid-conversation with him, and he just... Like, without even realizing what he's doing.
Sonny00:04:56His eyes track the scene.
JVL00:04:59The eyes track, and just, you know, without even, and he's like, "Whoa, wait, where am I?" What did, you know, like Will Ferrell in old school, when he comes out of the debate.
Vic00:05:09Whereas for us, it's like you willfully not look at them. You can't look at them. That's the thing, you know? When you see them, you just, you go, and it's like, it's obvious that you're not looking at them, you know? You realize you were staring at them the entire time.
JVL00:05:24But you know.
Vic00:05:25You know the line in Roxanne? Keep going. Keep going.
Sonny00:05:30You remember the line? The lesson about this is just stay away from beaches.
Vic00:05:32Yeah, well, no, legally I'm not allowed to be on the beach. You know, there's a line in Roxanne where the guy's warning Rick Rossovich. Speaking of Rick Rossovich. Speaking of Rick Rossovich. But they're warning him about not looking at the nose. Because every time you're thinking about not looking at the nose, you realize the entire time you've been looking at the nose.
JVL00:05:52Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. It's funny. It's funny to watch. Yeah. But I'm glad you're not here because your ankle bracelet will be going off.
Vic00:06:00Just when I get the newspaper, it goes off. They threw it in the front, I had to get it.
JVL00:06:08Sonny. How are you Victorino?
Vic00:06:10I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine. But to me, I'm doing fine. Sonny, you were saying that I look like I didn't have much sleep. Yeah. I'm tired. I'm dragging. We had, you know, it's been nonstop rain. This is even before Hurricane Fred made its way, sort of the remnants up here. So this was just a lot of rain and I think on Sunday, they said it was like four inches in the span of a couple hours in the middle of the night. And then on top of that, we got another big dump of rain two nights ago. And sure enough, the garage was just flooding with water and it was coming in from the outside. So if you can see, well, you can't see, but in our driveway, even with the garage door down. It's not, you know, ankle deep in water that fills up. I mean, it was just pouring in. So then we get the wet vac out and the mop and then we just had to go to town. And then at some point, Kate just gave she couldn't do it anymore. She's like, I can't do this. But luckily, my son was awake and he stayed with me till 2:00 a.m. doing the whole thing. And we just opened the door into the garage and just vacuumed as much water as we can out. And then it fills up so fast and then you got to dump it out. I mean, it's just so it's so much water. So that's my situation.
Sonny00:07:21Pump pump. I don't understand.
Vic00:07:23We don't need a sump pump. We totally need a sump pump or a French drain. But then it's like the estimates. It's like getting an appointment. OK, when can we meet them? But they'll get to you at a certain time. All everybody's schedules, work schedules are so out of whack these days that I don't
Sonny00:07:38understand the actual physics of where the water is coming from. Is it the door going up in front of your it's pulling up in front of your garage door and coming in that way?
Vic00:07:46Yes. So the water comes from underneath the garage door from outside in the rain. And then it makes its way down the garage, the small garage that it is. And then it starts to pool near where the door is to the basement. And then it starts to come through underneath the door, even though it's a pretty well sealed door. But it's coming through the cracks. It's coming from under the ground. It was coming through under like the you know, I mean, it's just there's nowhere for though, as they say, you get to the point where it's completely saturated. There's nowhere for the water to go. You need sandbags outside your garage door. That's exactly right. On the inside. And then on the outside of the door.
Sonny00:08:23That's that's the only thing you do is the is it a function of like your driveway not being the right grade? Is it like tilted back toward your yes, it's not as bad as some houses.
Vic00:08:34But I mean, I you know, this has only been a problem in the last, I don't know, year or so. So I don't know.
Sonny00:08:41Like I said, because you guys did. Is this because you guys did that remodeling?
Vic00:08:45No, no, I can't even remember the remodeling that we did. You do something in the basement, a bathroom on the other side, it's on the other side of the basement. So that side of the basement, the finished part where I am recording right now is has been knock on wood, dry, and it used to get wet, but no longer now. It's very strange. We don't know what's happening. But that's my situation. But hopefully, we'll get too much rain, you know, it's just August in DC, it's not too bad.
Sonny00:09:16Sonny, what's going on with you? I don't have a ton going on. I suffered a weird injury yesterday. I don't know what exactly happened to me. I was holding my almost three-year-old, and he made a weird move, and I made kind of a weird move. And all of a sudden, my back was like, "No, don't do that." And I was like, "Well, this is a weird old man injury."
Vic00:09:39That is a total old man injury.
Sonny00:09:41I'm not 100% sure what has just happened, because I'm used to, you tweak your lower back, right? Yeah. I'm used to that. You wrench it the wrong way or something. That's the most common. Yeah. Or the kids jump on your lower back or whatever, and you're like, "Okay, yeah, I get why that." But this was my upper back, like where my like-
Vic00:09:59Shoulder blades?
Sonny00:10:00Yeah, like where my shoulders meet my ribs. I don't know how to describe it exactly, except for the fact that I like can't move more than about this without feeling weird tension in my back. To the point where I like literally just stood in the shower for like 10 minutes today with
JVL00:10:17the water on. Hard to breathe too, if you twist.
Sonny00:10:19No, no, no. It's not breathing. That's fine. It's not a rib cage injury. I've had those before, and this is not like that. It's like, it's just, it's weird. I don't know. It's like the muscles-
Vic00:10:31I think Jonathan, I will tell you the only thing you have to do now is go to a chiropractor. Absolutely not. Once a week. Absolutely not.
Sonny00:10:39For the rest of your life. I don't need my back punched. Okay. No, but it's ... So that's like literally the only thing that's happening in my world right now. It's all about like, what have I done to my back and how serious is it? I don't think it's ... I think it's already feeling a little bit better, but it is just a reminder that getting older and body falling apart ... I also get those memory things on my phone, JBL, and it definitely is like, oh yeah, I remember five years ago when children were small and helpless and now they're running around destroying my back.
Vic00:11:20The weird thing is, I'll get some of those and it'll be before I got my Wolverine
JVL00:11:24blood and I was like, wow, I look terrible back then. That was a mess.
Vic00:11:28But now you look great. Now. I mean, unstoppable. Unstoppable. Monoclonal antibodies. Everyone should get them. I wanted to ask you guys this because this recently happened here, which is of course in Arlington County, which is so much tax money, they don't know what to do with it. Every residence got the other week a little kit. It looks like a little cooler. And in fact, it is a compost kit. They want you to start composting, you know, composting. Do you guys compost? Do you have to compost? Do you compost?
?00:12:02I'd rather.
Sonny00:12:03Yeah. Dick on fire.
Vic00:12:05I'm sorry. What was that, Sonny?
Sonny00:12:07You know what? I'd rather light my dick on fire than start composting. I remember. I'm not going to play around and trash. I remember. And rotting garbage.
Vic00:12:14Because that's the thing. You know, that's that. That's that. Yeah. Because you start doing the, you know, it starts with recycling. And then you start sorting out the recycling. And then after that, then the last step is composting.
Sonny00:12:24When I. Not in Texas, my friend.
Vic00:12:26I was going to say, you don't do composting in Texas.
Sonny00:12:27Not. We don't. I mean, I'm sure there are people who compost in Dallas. I'm sure that. I bet it's a I bet it's a big Austin thing. I bet people in Austin.
Vic00:12:35Oh, yeah.
Sonny00:12:36They do it. Willfully. But in in Dallas. No, that's not a. That's not a.
Vic00:12:41That's not a thing. In in the first time I discovered this was when I was studying abroad when I was in Vienna. And there was like all these different bins. If it's your floor's turn to do, you know, like you're you're every you know, like y'all have to take turns taking care of the kitchen and then it'll be like my turn and my roommate. And then, you know, you sort out the garbage and recycling. And then there was a green bin. And if you had the unfortunate, you know, situation to lift that link, like, what is this? And then you left it. Then you see what it is, which is everybody's leftover foods, you know, accumulating, piled
Sonny00:13:12high for a week, just put it in the trash like a civilized culture.
Vic00:13:16So gross. The and the other thing is, well, I'll tell you what's also crazy. Right. If you want to compost, you know, I say go all out. And yet I saw the list. They give you a list in the little kit.
Sonny00:13:26It tells you that there's a guy explain to us what's in this actual kit.
Vic00:13:30OK, well, it looks like an empty cooler and it comes with a biodegradable, you know, liner that you put inside and all you do is you dump your leftover, you know, perishables in there and then you wrap it up and then you put it in your green. Compose. Well, it's not a compost, but what you put all your, you know, you know, leaves and all the other yard, yard waste, yard, yard yardings. Yes, yes. You could put it in there and that's how it works. And so out of curiosity, I've started to do it, but just with coffee grounds and eggshells and we'll see what happens. But I looked at the list of things that they won't let you put in the compost. Number one, human waste. Well, it was a little too late for that because you couldn't, you're not allowed to poop in the bucket. Yeah. Apparently not. I thought that was, I thought that's compost. Uh, and the second thing is medical waste. I saw, I got all these needles, night soil, night soil, night soil, uh, and, and then medical, you know, I have all these needles from over the years of all my, you know, injections and they're all, yes, they're all, they're all in these, you know, how do I get rid of those? They're in these garbage containers. I thought I was just putting in the compost.
Sonny00:14:50All right. Danny Boyle. Thank you. What are you doing with all those?
Vic00:14:54I'll tell you the one thing, the one thing I do, a kid in our neighborhood, um, started a glass recycling and I really admired his sales pitch. It was, it was written probably with the help of a parent, but nevertheless written very, very directly, which is what it is, what we do and how we undercut the competition by offering it for cheaper. I said, I admire that. Wait, wait, wait.
Sonny00:15:16I don't understand. What's I don't know. He's offering. Pick up glass.
Vic00:15:20What is he doing? He pick up, pick up like five bucks a week and he'll pick up your glass recycling and take it to the restaurant because of course our Lincoln County can't do recycling anymore for glass. Why not? Just, they can't do it, but Hey, make sure you recycle. It's a suit. Also, by the way, also, there's something else that they're not going to be able to do. So like plastic or paper and they're like, Hey, make sure everybody was like, what are we putting in there?
Sonny00:15:44Wait, wait, wait. So I don't, I don't understand. So are you, all right, now, now I'm actually curious. Yeah. This is really interesting. So the, so in your, in your ridiculous city where you live, it is ridiculous. You are required to recycle. Is that right? They want you to recycle. Yeah. Yeah. That you have to recycle. You put recycling in the garbage. You could, in theory, get in trouble. I think it's Johnny Law.
Vic00:16:04I've always wondered about that because you know, every now and then you do and you're like, what are they going to do? Report you? I have no idea.
Sonny00:16:10Yeah. Go ahead. All right. So second question, they have stopped taking glass.
Vic00:16:14Yes. They want you to, they want you to recycle, but the glass, but you know, they're not going to bring it to the facility anymore. You have to do it yourself.
Sonny00:16:20Why not? I don't know. Why won't they do it? What's the, why, what's, don't you pay taxes so they will pick up your trash for you?
Vic00:16:27I saw a, I saw, and this was in the news. This is one of the worst things I ever saw in the news where they were explaining about not being able to do the recycling thing anymore, but you could still use glass. And a guy was literally saying, well, I mean, you could put flowers in your bottles. Anyway.
Sonny00:16:43All right. So they, they want you, they want you to recycle things. They want you to recycle the grass, but the glass, but they won't pick it up and they expect you to take it to the recycling plant.
Vic00:16:54Yeah. And it's really kind of a gross facility. I, I, I run past it on Lee Highway. And so, you know, I mean, cause everybody just puts it, so.
Sonny00:17:02Do you, do you, are you, do you get like return money for these bottles or whatever? No, I don't. No, no, no.
Vic00:17:08You don't get like five cents a bottle or whatever? No, no, no.
Sonny00:17:10You're just supposed to do it. So you're, you're just supposed to take it there because that's your civic responsibility?
Vic00:17:15Yes.
Sonny00:17:16Yes, Sonny. Fuck that. I would, I would rather, I would, I would throw every single piece of glass in the garbage and I would not think twice about it. Well, I tell you, that's how I generally feel. Like I've, I've often, I've often, I do the recycling, even though it's foolishness. That's like total waste. Total waste. It doesn't actually save the environment at all. We should just put all of this crap in landfills or whatever. A lot of landfills. We got a lot, we got plenty of space, but if, if the, if the city of Dallas came to me and was like, you just should do it, we would really like you to keep recycling, but we're not going to pick up your glass or your plastic or I'd be like, so I thank you very much for your suggestion now, but all of this crap is going directly in the trash. It's going directly in the trash and I don't, I could not possibly be bothered to like put it in my car and take it. I'm not going to put my disgusting, filthy glass with the leaking remnants of whatever you were drinking. At the bottom of the bag and you get a hole in it, it's garbage juice, filth, garbage juice all over your car. You have to be kidding me. I would. I would. Thank you.
JVL00:18:28Thank you. Question. Yes. JVL.
Vic00:18:32Did you hire the kid? Yeah. I admired his, um, entrepreneurial, uh, uh, uh, spirit question.
JVL00:18:41How old is the kid and how many houses in the neighborhood do you think? Have signed up with this?
Vic00:18:48I bet you a ton because it's Arlington. He's probably, I don't know, 14, 15, I guess, and he goes around and he picks it up $5 a
JVL00:18:57week. You said. Yeah. And how is he billing you? Is you pay him cash or does he have square PayPal? Oh, PayPal. So you just PayPal him. So let's say he's got 10 houses, 50 bucks a week. That's not bad money for, not bad money. Here's the problem though.
Vic00:19:12He picks up, he picks up the glass and then it gets to, obviously if he picks up for my house, then he sees it's just a lot of liquor bottles, which is kind of, you know, I like, don't judge me, but I'm sure he is like, gee, one of these people do it here. Question.
JVL00:19:25Yes. Wait, wait, wait. Was he also selling highlights subscriptions?
Vic00:19:28Yes. He was selling highlights. How did you know? And I signed up for five years worth of a subscription.
Sonny00:19:33Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you, you're, you're not putting the bottles in a bag and like tying the bag off.
Vic00:19:39No, I just put it in a shopping bag, a pile. I just throw it in a giant shopping bag, piled up, take the glass. You, you want it.
Sonny00:19:46You have like a, in, in your, in the grass of your yard, you just have chucked a bunch of bottles out there and needles like Timmy, Timmy, go get the bottles. They're right there.
Vic00:19:56Timmy. You know, I'm sure he must think at this point, um, like, I don't know, Jim Morrison or something. Speaking of which this week, we're talking about documentary Val on Amazon prime. Rick Ross, which would have been a better transition, but it was too early, uh, Sonny. How about a big boy review?
Sonny00:20:12Are we going to know box office thoughts this weekend? You're saying there's a box office. Box office. Box office. What's happened?
Vic00:20:19Oh, right. Something about a big drop. Usually it's about 40% or so. Right. How did, how did suicide squad do?
Sonny00:20:25Uh, suicide squad dropped 70%, 70%. That's a good high score wins, right? That is a Batman versus Superman in size drop. That's a big drop. Uh, it's bad. I mean, it, look, it's, it's bad. I, I, I, I'm, uh, I'm hesitant to like make a bunch of grand predictions and projections about what this means. We're still in very weird times. A, the movies on HBO max B Delta variants raging across the country. Everyone's very nervous about sitting in a movie theater, uh, you know, see, um, this, this had a lot of like kind of inherent problems because it's a sequel to a movie that people kind of hated. Uh, and D it kind of counted on Margot Robey to drive the box office and that's terrible idea cause she's not a star. Uh, so I dunno, there's a, there's a lot of different things about this, but that's a huge, that's a huge, enormous drop. It's bad. You don't, you don't want to see that sort of thing. It's going to end up grossing it, this, the suicide squad will probably end up grossing less than suicide squad did on its first day of release. That's that's how bad that is astonishing. That's how bad the release of this movie has been for, uh, for HBO max and Warner brothers and the rest. I mean, who knows? Maybe, maybe it led to a million people signing up on HBO max and that, you know, RPU is very large.
Vic00:21:46It could be, is it still the, is that the number one movie still at the box office?
?00:21:50Technically?
Sonny00:21:51Uh, no, I don't think so.
JVL00:21:54I don't, I don't think it was. Hold on.
Sonny00:21:57I just got to check real quick. No, it was, it was the fifth movie this, this weekend at the box office. I, it, it went all the way from first to fifth, uh, the weekend for number one movie at the weekend. This, uh, this weekend was a number one movie at the box office this weekend was free guy. Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then don't breathe too did 10.6, which is, which is solid but unremarkable. Um, jungle cruise holds okay at nine, 9 million. It's down 40%, something like that. Um, but yeah, terrible.
JVL00:22:24So is the, is the pandemic lesson here that we have to reset all of our expectations for box office declines, especially for properties that are already, that are also available on streaming in some form or another, and that if it's a kid's movie or a family movie, then you can expect 1% set of percentage disclines because they're just still people who need to get their children out of the house and going to a movie is a way to do it. But all other movies are just like, we no longer assume that the, you know, we're at a 40 to 45% decline week over week, we've got to assume 55 or 60% or something like
Sonny00:23:05that. Uh, I would say, I would say you have three, you have three separate questions here. The, the first, the first proposition is a movie that is released. On theaters and streaming simultaneously, uh, is going to drop in the S between 65 and 70%. I think that is, uh, there is a, there is an audience that wants to go to the movies. They go to the movies. It's very front loaded. And then that number, the, the decrease from week to week as is enormous. You see it, uh, you, you see it with basically every HBO max release, you see it with all of these movies. Um, the Disney premiere access is slightly different. Those hold a little bit better, but not that much better. But the ones that are, that are, that are family films, as you say, JBL do tend to have better multiples. Now the multiple, uh, is the, the total box office versus the opening weekend. So I think, uh, crew, well, I had a multiple of four, which would be good in, which would be very, very good in normal times. Um, it's a little bit harder to judge here because it's opening weekend was only 21 million. So multiple of four on that is still not, it's still like kind of modest, but it's, it's better than anything else has been doing the jungle book, uh, movie. I think is, is, is going to hold very well. I'm sorry. Jungle cruise, not jungle book. Jungle cruise, uh, is going to be, is, is holding pretty well. It dropped 55% the first weekend, which is not a, which is not a great drop in, in like a normal time. That would be like, Oh, 55%. Well, that's, that's okay. That's about average. But for, for what we're seeing now, it's actually pretty good. And then second to third weekend drop was only 42%. So that's going to hold, that's going to play all summer. I think, I think that's going to be a, a surprise kind of a movie that did very well, but even, even movies that are not immediately on streaming, you're seeing big drops like this, like a quiet place to very good reviews, decent cinema score for a horror movie. Um, uh, and huge opening weekend box office, like almost equal to the first, uh, movies. And that, that came out in, you know, non pandemic time. So different, different expectations, whatever. Um, but even that movie dropped, I think 65% or something like that first weekend to second weekend. Now it held it. It, it, it. It was a big first weekend drop. It kind of normalized and, and did okay through, through the rest of the, the summer, even after it was out on, uh, VOD, it was out on VOD while it was still in theaters and people were still going to see it in theaters. Um, but I, I like it's, if you, if you are looking at the box office numbers right now, it used to be that a 50% drop was average for a good blockbuster, like 45 to 50%. If a movie dropped 45 to 50%, you're like, yeah, this is good. Um, If a movie dropped 50 to 55%, you're like, ah, it's not bad. But if it was like 60 to 65%, you're like, Ooh, this is trouble.
JVL00:25:50That's John Carter of Mars territory.
Sonny00:25:51Ooh. Yeah. I mean like, I think, I think I want to say that Batman versus Superman dawn of justice dropped something like 60 S either 67 or 68% first weekend, the second weekend. Um, and you're seeing that on everything. You're seeing that on everything now, uh, which means that again, there's a core audience of people who want to come to the theaters and see things in theaters and they all go to the opening weekend. And then after that, it's a much lower trickle of, of the audience. Yeah. I would, this is my big, my big point here is that as we get, as we head towards Dune, uh, all of you Dune fans should not get your hopes up for Dune part two. You've been trolling Dune fans, Sonny. Dune part one is about all you're going to get on that one. And I say this sadly, I say this with sadness because I like it didn't need the new, as you guys know. He's one of my favorite directors, Denis Venue, he's one of my, he's the best. Um, and, and I am, I support Denis Venue when he is out there on the social media talking about, you know, we need the theatrical experience. My movie is designed to be seen in a theater. Watching it on TV at home is like, uh, you know, listening or like what, God, what was the line he used? It's like putting, it's like using a speedboat in a bathtub, which is a great visual image. Um, uh, so, you know, I feel, I feel bad for him. Coming off of Blade Runner 2049 to be hit with Dune in the middle of a pandemic. But that movie is going to gross $50 million. At the box office.
Vic00:27:22Is Ana de Armas going to be in that movie, because I would watch that.
Sonny00:27:26She is not in that one, sadly.
JVL00:27:27She's not in that one. Such a big fan. Total? Give me an opening weekend number for it.
Sonny00:27:31No, no. I would say, I, I think, I think it could, I think it could do $50 million opening weekend. I think it will, I would, I would be shocked if it does, if it beats, if it gets to a hundred million dollars domestic, I would be very, very surprised. I think it's probably going to be closer to like 30 million opening, 80 million total.
Vic00:27:51When is Dune coming out?
Sonny00:27:54Dune comes out October.
JVL00:27:55I'll take the under.
Sonny00:27:58You'll take the under on 3080. Yeah. Yeah.
JVL00:28:01I'll take the under on that. And I'll tell you this, I'll, we'll get Dune part two with the same, the same weekend we get the Remo Williams, uh, the adventure continues.
Vic00:28:10Buckaroo bonsai. I will say. King Solomon's vines.
JVL00:28:15There were two of them. They did two King Solomon's vines.
Vic00:28:18No, they didn't.
JVL00:28:19What? Absolutely did. I will effort this, but I go add the Richard Chamberlain with the first appearance of Sharon
Vic00:28:28Stone.
JVL00:28:29But that was the, that was the, and introducing Sharon stone. And I saw that movie when I was 13 and you thought flashes age. And when I saw her on screen, I just was like, Oh,
Sonny00:28:43yeah, I will say, uh, so here's, I want to, I, the, the only, the only thing, the only thing I will push back on here is I do think that dune was always a movie that was going to have trouble at the box office anyway, because it's a movie that is deeply beloved by a smallish number of people. And like that sort of thing is very much like blade runner 2049, where you think like, Oh, we've got this great property. We have to exploit it. People will go and like, it doesn't end up working out that way. So this may actually be the best thing. Probably be the reason we get a dune part two is because somebody at Warner brothers is like, well, we can't hold it against them that they only grossed, you know, $77 million at the domestic box office. It's not their fault. We got to make another one. We got to finish the story. You know what? Maybe that might be what happens.
Vic00:29:29I'm thinking that before we, before, if we do, if we decide to do dune as an episode, I should probably read the book.
Sonny00:29:35If I get started now on the book, uh, we should send a message back in time to 2016. Yeah. It's going to be a dune movie.
Vic00:29:44You got to start reading it now in 2016, it's like 500 pages long. You think you're going to read that and you're going to read that in two months. Now I'm worried about one of the quadrants I'm worried about a duration, instant correction.
JVL00:29:58No second.
Vic00:29:59Alan Quartermain. Oh yeah. No. Okay. Alan Quartermain. Uh, okay. Now Sonny.
JVL00:30:06Val. Val. No, I'm sorry. Instinct correction. There were two of them. The first one was King Solomon's minds and the second one was Alan Quartermain, the lost city of gold, both starring Richard Chamberlain JVL is right.
Sonny00:30:24I don't, I've not seen either of these movies. I know nothing about them. They were big in my house.
JVL00:30:29They were very big in my house in the thirties, eighties. These are eighties mid eighties and he was also in thorn birds.
Vic00:30:37The thorn bird. Yes. It's a complicated quadrant.
Sonny00:30:40But well, Rick Rossovich in these movies. Hey.
Vic00:30:42Rick Rossovich might have been in thorn birds actually. Rick Rossovich was in terminator and I remember cause I watched it and I felt so bad for him cause I, he was being thrashed, thrown around.
Sonny00:30:54He's like a big dude and he's got to go up against Arnold Schwarzenegger. That's not fair.
Vic00:30:58I was so terrible to see that. Okay. Go.
Sonny00:31:01Rick Rossovich. I, I'll get the Val in a second, but Rick Rossovich, it was funny. I was watching streets of fire the other night. It was on, it was cause it was on HBO Max and he's in that too. He's he was in. He was in Top Gun, streets of fire, uh, the terminator and God, there was something else, just like as like, and Roxanne just says like, kind of the, kind of the, like, I dunno, not, not do she exactly just kind of like, no, he played it well. He played it well.
Vic00:31:27Yeah. He played it well.
Sonny00:31:29Do she? All right. Uh, Val. Val is a critically acclaimed documentary premiered at con cans film festival, uh, about the life and times. Of Val Kilmer. The big draw of this documentary is that Val Kilmer was an early adopter of home video technology. Uh, his family, when he was growing up, had an eight millimeter camera. They shot home movies. You know, he was making, he was out making short films with his, his brothers having fun. You know, uh, we, we've got a lot of that footage, but he was also personally just like he was into VHS. So when he went to Juilliard, um, where he went to, to acting school, he bought his video camera, the youngest actor ever accepted to the drama program. At Juilliard, um, he, uh, uh, you know, he had the camera on the set of Top Gun, uh, Island of Dr. Moreau, other movies, but we, we'll talk about that a bit more in a second. Um, uh, but the point is he, he has all of this footage and like the directors, you know, are talking about how they have like literally like years of footage to watch, just like boxes and boxes of stuff that, to the point where like the, the movie. Red Planets doesn't really get any discussion in this documentary at all. It's like kind of that late, it's that weird, like 2000 era Val Kilmer, where he was in a bunch of not that great stuff, but he was, he was, you know, the, the star of it. And they said that there's like, there's like, they had a, they had a whole long, like 15 minute scene that was basically a short documentary that Kilmer himself shot about Mars and you know, movies about Mars and that sort of thing. And they had to end up cut, they ended up having to cut it all because, you know, just didn't work with the story. So there's, there is, you know, somewhere at some point we're going to get like a 17 disc box set of the Val Kilmer home movies, and that will be, uh, what he survives on for the rest of his life because what he's surviving on right now is kind of depressing. The most, the most depressing part of this, this movie, uh, is seeing Val Kilmer post throat cancer. He, uh, has a, he has a stoma in his throat. He can only talk by, you know, closing up the hole in his throat. It sounds like a raspy squeak. Uh, he does not, he, he like kind of hunches his neck forward to hide it. He's got a scarf on at all times. It's very depressing. Um, but I like added to all of this, he is, he's now basically doing the convention circuit. He's basically going town to town, you know, signing photos from people and like the absolute most cringy moment is at the London, uh, Comic-Con festival. He, he's there signing photos and it's just like a montage of people asking, you know, I'll be your wingman anytime.
JVL00:34:12Uh, for, you know, personalize it to Scotty and say, uh, I'll be your wingman anytime. Ice man.
Sonny00:34:21It's just like, it's like, you can see him, like you could see him just like cringing in it at one point when he is at a screening of tombstone and an old west town, it's like a, you know, kind of a kitschy thing, which would add, that actually sounds like kind of fun. I would totally go to that. But the tombstone at an old west town, he, you know, he talks about how. Yeah. He gets real low. He gets real depressed when he thinks about, you know, what his career now is just talking about things he's done in the past. And I think he understands that his career is over otherwise, this is not a, he's not going to ever be an actor again. That just, he can't do it. He can't do it with, with the, the physical limitations that he has. Um, and that's a shame because Val Kilmer was a very good actor. He's, he's very, he is like shockingly funny, which a lot of leading men aren't. He's got great comic timing. Um, he is, you know, he's like a good looking leading guy. He, he's very good in all of these, uh, the movies that we, we watched and loved growing up. Um, and it's, it's just, it's kind of depressing, but it's also, it's also a very poignant movie because you get a lot of, lot of footage of him with his family, with his mom, um, in particular who, who, you know, uh, passes on while they're, while they're, I think, I guess while they're filming. Yeah. Uh, and asked to, you know, go to, go, go to her funeral and is, is kind of going through her possessions and taking jewelry of hers and, and kind of claiming it for his own, for himself. Um, but also just like, there's this one moment that I love and I'll stop after this, but there's this one moment that I really, really love where he is, he's watching his son who narrates the documentary. He sounds a lot like him, Jack Kilmer. Um, he's watching his son play guitar and the kid's playing guitar and it sounds, you know, it's, it's, it's a lot of distortion, a lot of it's, it's what it, it's not, I wouldn't say he's not slash put it that way, but it's, you know, it's, he's watching his kid play and the camera cuts to a home footage, a home video shot of him watching Jack as like a four or five year old playing like a Fisher price guitar. Right. And it cuts back to Val, Val Kilmer watching his grown son play and it, and, and you, you could just see, you can see on film him going back. Back to this memory in his head to, to going back to this, watching his kid grow up, seeing what he has become the, you know, the, it is, it is as JVL puts it, uh, earlier today, you can basically, we, we all have in our power now to see the passage of time. Just in a moment, we can pull up our phone and look at old images. We pull up images on the cloud, we pull up whatever, and we can see our kids at one or two and then at 10 or 12. 20, 30, whatever. And it made me realize I wrote, I wrote about this a little bit, but it basically made me realize that Val Kilmer is like in a weird way, almost a prophet. He like his past, his existence, his, the way he lived his life is how we will all live our lives for the rest of time going forward. We will all be these constant, uh, we will all be constantly capturing photos and videos. We will all have it at our fingertips to kind of pull up at a moment's notice. And look at it. Um, and there's something, there's something again, weirdly poignant about that. And I, I, you know, I, I, I, I feel bad for Val Kilmer for that in the hand fate has dealt him. But I also think he is lucky in a very real way to have that sort of, uh, that sort of record of his life and his family. Thank you Sonny.
Vic00:38:05Uh, JVL, what do you think?
JVL00:38:08It's tough. It's a tough watch. It's a really tough watch. Uh, you know, it's a quad documentary. I thought it was quite good, like just as, as a documentary, it is, I mean, he begins with him saying, you know, I have had a magical life, uh, and he has, I mean, he grew up living in on the Roy Rogers ranch, his dad was real estate developer and they, when the Roy Rogers ranch came up for sale, his dad bought it and you know, he was, he got a. A trip to the set of the Adam West Batman and got to sit in the Batmobile and stuff. Um, and so it, it leans into all of that and he believes it, but it's also not saccharine. I mean, there is, there is nothing, nothing in this that is saccharine. It is, you know, all of his regrets are there, uh, all of the pain with his, his own dad. There's a sequence where he's talking about his dad, uh, sort of, you know, was a real rich real estate guy and then lost it all right as he Val Kilmer was, was starting to make some money. Right.
Vic00:39:17And so his put it in shell companies, dummy, dummy, dummy.
JVL00:39:19Right. So his dad said, Hey, you know, come and invest on, you know, what I'm doing. And his dad lost all of his money and he said, you know, his choice was to either sue his father to get his money back or just have lost all of his money and he chose to lose all his money. And then, and so you think to yourself, boy, that would really embitter a guy. But then you get the video from his wedding where he's getting married and his dad is there and he's like joking around with his pops despite all that, despite all. And, but again, but not in a saccharine way. Like it's not, you know, it's not like all is forgiven, but it's like, this is, yeah, this is life. We are bound together for these things. It is what it is. And you know, the regrets with his, uh, with his, his, his marriage and divorce. Which are all very raw and very real, the very raw and very real him understanding about his physical condition and what I thought was again, a tough watch. And we, we talk about this and, you know, the, the lessons of this, and I think there's a way in which you can watch Val and see it as something beautiful. It doesn't have to be such a depressing thing, but as a documentary, I thought it was quite good. Victorino?
Vic00:40:39Um, I actually thought it was, I thought it ran a little bit long, even though it was not, I mean, there are parts I think I could have, I would have shortened and yet despite that length, uh, it's hard not to love, uh, the documentary, at least if you're a fan of Val Kilmer, you can relate because he'd seen him, you know, when he early on, I remember seeing him in top secret, not knowing who he was, I think at the time probably, and then real genius of course. And then of course, and top gun, and then you follow that actor along the rest of the way. Um, it's, it's hard to watch it also because it's more than just, oh, I had this thing. I had a, you know, this operation and I can't talk right now, but it's more than just not being able to talk. Everything about him has changed physically, you know, and, and who knows what, how, how else psychologically he's not the same, um, the stuff that he ha I mean, the fact that he has so much recorded is, I mean, it is a great, it's great for us. We get to see what, you know, that world. Was like, I love how it opens with just the guys hanging out on top gun and what he says, which is so interesting, of course, is, um, how, and this happens in movie sets where, you know, you know, depending on who your characters, you know, uh, associate with in the movie, uh, they ended up, uh, forming different, you know, sides. So, and a lot of his camera footage, you don't see, uh, a lot of Tom Cruise at all really are Anthony Edwards or Tim Robbins for that matter. He'd be on the other side, Merlin and, and, and, uh, goose and Maverick. He was with, uh, I, it was Iceman and slider and, and, and Wolfman and Wolfman and Hollywood and Hollywood. And he mentions that, uh, Barry tub who plays a Wolfman, uh, he, they, he ended up, um, uh, for a while with Kelly McGillis. And, uh, I mean, it was just great to see all that also, by the way, while we're talking on the subject of top gun, the, the very brief, the all too brief scene. Scenes of the osc, the, the, um, the red carpet, uh, for the premier of top gun and Cruz looks so small. Uh, I mean, I know he's a short guy, but I mean, so young, yeah, so young and, and here's the other interesting thing. If you look at that, if you're watching that red carpet scene where Tom Cruise goes, comes out and everybody's going crazy, of course. Uh, you could see his, his, uh, Mimi Rogers, who he was either dating or was married to at the time. She's a much older woman and it's always sucked. I think for the dates of these, um, stars on the red carpet, because when everybody asks for, you know, for your photo, they don't want you in there, you know, they have to leave and, and she looks totally uninterested.
JVL00:43:22Did you catch who Val Kilmer's date was to the red carpet for share, share, who must've been 20 years older than he was. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy.
Vic00:43:35I mean, it's just a crazy, this is clearly just a publicist arranged thing.
JVL00:43:37Yeah.
Vic00:43:38Totally. Totally. And people go wild. Uh, and then, uh, uh, because it was, you know, I mean, he was, it was Val Kilmer, not, you know what I mean? It wasn't Tom Cruise, but it was still so fascinating. And then the clips of the, the, the part, like the dance party after looks you, it was, it just looked great. They were, these guys were on top of the world. It was just absolutely fascinating.
Sonny00:43:58Although that was also like weirdly, it was like weirdly depressing because it's just like the stars kind of dancing the road thing.
JVL00:44:06I don't know.
Sonny00:44:07But I, it looked like total, it looked like weirdly staged and like, I don't know, I like, I don't know. I, I saw that and I was like, oh boy, that's a lonely, I was, I was, I was absolutely fascinated. I wanted to see my, my, my favorite behind the scenes thing from this like early period is the play, uh, where, so Val Kilmer's doing a play at Juilliard, uh, or just after he's pushed back down and he gets pushed down the cast list by first, uh, Kevin Bacon and then Sean Penn. And he gets video, you know, videotape footage of Kevin Bacon and Sean Penn and Kevin Bacon looks, you know, kind of like, you know, Kevin Bacon, but Sean Penn has like the same sneer that Sean Penn has had on his face every time I've ever seen him for the, you know, for the last 40 years.
Vic00:44:50And this is just in the dressing room. My question to you guys is, do you think they thought he was weird for doing that? Were they sort of just like rolling their eyes when, when, when?
Sonny00:45:04Yes. So I thought I, the, the other. The only time I thought this was when he was talking to David Thouless on the set of, uh, Frankenheimer starts yelling at them. Well, so there's, there's that bit, which is, which is interesting. But if you, if you just watch the bit where he's talking to David Thouless, he's like, can I help you? How can I help you in this scene? And like, he clearly just like wants the camera away from him. He just like, he like, I think he understands Val Kilmer is a big star. You can't tell Val Kilmer to fuck off and get off, get away, get away from him. But he's like clearly very uncomfortable. The whole thing is very uncomfortable. But yeah, that, the stuff with Frankenheimer. Okay.
Vic00:45:39Okay. Hold on to save that thought for later because that's the sort of thing we do. Yes. Uh, David Thouless, he should have told him one day I will turn into a wolf and you won't.
JVL00:45:48Let's talk about this in, in three acts and let's talk about it by decade. Let's talk about the eighties and the nineties and the thousands, the odds, because we're going to do a special episode about this anyway. Yeah, exactly. So, um, let's talk about the eighties stuff and what struck you? Most because the thing that struck me most is that he's really an accidental film star and he, he should have been on stage, right? He, he clearly is pulled into movies because there's an opening for like hot young guys and that's where the money is. Uh, he doesn't seem especially happy with it.
Vic00:46:29No. And in fact, I mean it was a, I mean it was a big starring, it was, it was a starring vehicle for Val Kilmer. Top secret. I remember talking about when he did top secret, uh, and that was the Zucker brothers. It was there, you know, after post, that's right, post, uh, post airplane. Uh, but my question is, do they all, don't they all want to be on in theater? Don't they all want, I mean, you know, do Shakespeare, do Hamlet or no, like Tom Cruise
JVL00:46:55doesn't want to do Hamlet. That's true. Because this is, this is the thing also, uh, and this, this I think is the fundamental tragedy of Kilmer's acting career. There are actors and there are movie stars and every once in a while you'll get a movie star who is also an actor, but not always. Uh, and Kilmer is 100% an actor and not a movie star. And worse than that, he is a character actor who happens to look like a leading man and you know, and so he's, he's kind of like a little bit like Jude law in that. Right. I mean, Jude law never wanted to be a leading man, but he was pushed into these lead roles because he was so damn handsome. Right. I mean, he looks, you look at him, he's a movie star, he should be a leading man. And Kilmer never really got out of that, you know, and so he's all of his best work is when he is in the background a little bit or, or playing second fiddle to, to somebody else. And he just never really got his arms around his career in, in the way that would have would have made it turn out better.
Vic00:48:08I think. Yeah. Uh, go ahead. Uh, Sonny, you were gonna add something.
Sonny00:48:13No, I mean, I think that's totally right. I mean, if you look at his work in the 1990s, uh, his, his two best, the two best movies that he is in are probably heat and tombstone. Um, and, uh, you know, it's not, it's not the saint where he actually gets to do more acting where he gets to like be a bunch of different characters and he talks about this in the movie a little bit that like, you know, I gave up doing, I didn't want to do another Batman because I wanted to do the saint cause I actually got to do stuff. I wasn't just stuck in a suit and you know, smiling, uh, or grimacing, you know, he was like he, he could actually act.
Vic00:48:45What I loved, uh, by the way, where, and this is sort of end of the eighties, early nineties and he only, uh, he, he, he teases us with just two of these cause I'm sure he's done them for a lot. His audition tapes, uh, the first one for full metal jacket and then the second one for Goodfellas, uh, I felt like in the documentary watching his progression, that that's where he takes a turn for the weird or, but that's kind of what a lot of actors do, right? They do. They send these to the, at least that's what they used to do, right?
Sonny00:49:22Send these tapes or before you're, before you're a star, certainly, I mean, and, and a lot of people actually did that with, with a full metal jacket because, uh, you know, people heard like, oh, Stanley Kubrick's making a Vietnam war movie. I want, uh, like he's, he's, I'm gonna send a tape to him in England and that'll, that'll get me, that'll get me on, uh, on board. I, the, the, the Henry Hill one was interesting cause he sounds very much like Hill, uh, or at least Hill as in the popular imagination. Um, but yeah, he got, I think he got lucky and kind of stumbled into the doors in part because he, you know, looks a lot like Jim Horton. Yeah.
JVL00:50:01Yeah. I was thinking, I was wondering why he did. He did not get any part in full metal jacket is full metal Jack has a movie with in the same way saving private Ryan was, or the thin red line, there's like 35 parts for guys, his age. Right. And you could, you could give him a part with three lines and he would have gone over there and done it for scale because it's working for Stanley Kubrick. Right. And I think the answer is that his look was wrong. He doesn't look like a GI from 1970. Mm-hmm . Like they're just, everything about his face is too pretty. Yes.
Vic00:50:38Too good looking because it would be, it's like, you know what I thought was ridiculous was, uh, at the end of the th of thin red line and the cameo by George Clooney. Yeah.
JVL00:50:49George Clooney. Totally. Yeah. In a world war II movie. It just didn't, that didn't work for me.
Vic00:50:54Yeah.
Guest00:50:55Let alone John Travolta.
JVL00:50:56But, you know. Yeah. I, uh, but, but the other, the ones I don't, I, I am surprised at like, you know, he never got a look for Goodfellas. Goodfellas or stuff like that, but it's charming because the other thing is he was a name. He was a name brand already. When he was sending out these auditions, there's something charmingly, uh, self-effacing and not entitled about it. Like that, that he was just like sitting around and it's a little weird, it's a little thirsty, but again, because he wanted to be a working actor. This is a guy who has a very British approach to acting. You know, he just would like to be up on stage 50 weeks a week. Yeah.
Sonny00:51:35He wanted to work with Scorsese. He wanted to work.
Vic00:51:37Yeah. Yeah. What, uh, what, uh, did he, did he want to work with Joel Schumacher? Is that who did Batman forever?
Sonny00:51:42We wanted to be Batman. So imagine.
JVL00:51:44Everyone wants to be Batman. So imagine this. So he, he says that the day, so he wraps Batman and the next day is on set for heat with Michael Mann. Can you imagine going from a Joel Schumacher production to a Michael Mann production the next morning? What a weird, weird culture shift.
Vic00:52:01Remember how we described it in the documentary? He said it was like being in an indie film, an indie film.
Sonny00:52:08Yeah. Oh, it's very funny when he's saying that too, because they're showing like the behind the scenes footage. There's like 300 people there. It's the shootout. Yeah. It's like the Los Angeles shootout scene. Yeah. You know? Uh, God.
JVL00:52:20It's fantastic. Yeah. So that's his eighties and then he transitions into the nineties stuff and that's where his career just like doesn't achieve liftoff. You know, it's the saint is his chance to be, um, like a real star. And he just doesn't settle. He just doesn't settle back into the kind of roles he's where he is weak as an actor was in the management of his career, I think in picking parts and looking for right to slot himself into work the right way. I think he just didn't do a very good job of that because he picked some really great
Sonny00:52:56parts. I mean like it's like, it's hard to imagine anybody else's doc holiday in that role. And I, and we say that. Right. The fact that there was another, you know, movie with doc holiday in it that came right out, right. The one with Kevin Costner, the one with Kevin Costner, uh, you know, he, it's hard to imagine anybody else as Chris from heat, right? Like he has that kind of haunted, uh, you know, dead eyed look to him. That is, is, I mean, he's the best, he's the best thing in a movie with that, that features Al Pacino and Robert De Niro going head to head with each other.
Vic00:53:33And it's, it's, it's, there was a little, there was a little clip of Tom Sizemore in it too.
JVL00:53:38Love that.
Vic00:53:39Fantastic. Love to see that. Um, and then we get to, uh, the Island of Dr. Moreau. Now had you, we, we all knew, we all knew about the problems on that set and that it was a nightmare, but as you were just saying at JVL and Sonny about his act, he wanted to work with Stanley Kubrick, for example. And likewise, he wanted an opportunity to be with the great Marlon Brando.
Sonny00:54:03But of course this is everybody who has ever wanted that has been disappointed by what they got. Well, I think we were kind of shocked about what we saw. It's amazing. No, we're not.
JVL00:54:13That's let's, let's talk about what we saw because I am, I assume that not everybody who's going to listen to this will actually sit down and watch it because it's really,
Vic00:54:20you can't believe what you're seeing. It's not a fat suit. JVL go ahead.
JVL00:54:23It's not a fat suit. There is a moment where he is on set and they're looking at Brando as Brando is being wheeled on set in a. Uh, you know, like a giant caftan and being carried and he says, that's not Marlin, is it? And whoever he's saying with goes, I don't think so. And he calls up to this guy, Hey, Hey, what's your name? And he says, Norm Kilmer says, deadpan today, the role of Marlon Brando will be played by norm. And it is, I almost fell off the sofa. It was so funny. It was so basic, but, but so, so what happens? I forget who the original. The original director was, but the original director walks off the picture. John Frankenheimer himself, a, a legendary director brought in to salvage it. He wants no part of Brando. He and Kilmer don't like each other. The whole picture is just at that point, basically beyond salvage. It's so far behind its shooting schedule that it is, it is heading into legendary flop land. And, uh, and Kilmer is just caught. This is one of those movies where, you know, people walk around joking, who do I have to fuck to get off of this picture? Right. And maybe the funniest thing in the whole documentary, even funnier than the part of, of Marlon Brando will be played by norm is him walking around this. I don't know if it's a set or what, looking for Marlon and finding him in fat. Marlon is on a hammock and he wants to talk. Val Kilmer wants to talk with him and Marlon's just like, yeah, give us a push.
Vic00:56:02And he had to do it twice.
JVL00:56:04Give us a push boy. Push it harder. And Marlon just wants somebody to push him so that the hammock will rock. This is, and Val Kilmer must've been thinking to himself, I cannot fucking believe this. I, I have just lit my career on fire because I wanted the chance to hang out with Marlon Brando and all Brando wants is first of all, he has somebody else pretending to be him on set. But then when I go to talk to him, cause I would like to learn about acting from him. He's like, push the hammock.
Sonny00:56:32I like, this is, this is a, the stories about this movie are, are legend. And you know, it's, it's for you, you get a sense of why in the like five minutes of footage that we see, but the, but like everybody who worked with Marlon Brando after 1960. After streetcar. Or so basically after streetcar, uh, you know, I, yeah, I mean like going all the way back to whenever that 51 or whenever the streetcar named desire came out, like. Um, I, you, I don't know what, what he was expecting. I don't know what I, there was, I, I remember a story about, I remember a story about Superman, the, the motion picture, right? Where he, he basically says to, uh, the director, he says to Richard Donner, nobody, nobody knows what Superman's dad looks like. What if we just had like a chicken? I'll do the voice. We just have like a chicken up there and I'll, I'll do Kal-El's voice and then I'll, I'll say the lines, but I don't want to. I don't, that way I don't have to be on camera. And Richard Donner's like, no, you can't, you can't do that, Marlon. You have to actually be in the movie for the 10 minutes that you're in this movie. If that, for your million dollar payday. He's like, oh, fine. But I mean, it, it like, it, it was like that his, the whole rest of his career was just a series of struggles and, you know.
Vic00:57:51Yeah. That's right. Um, the, uh, the, when you were talking about the Comic-Con, that is for me, I think in the documentary, the, uh, the, uh. Maybe the low point. And it's when he's not feeling well. Uh, and maybe cause he's still going through his treatments. Um, and he's in that they wheel him out and he has to put the, the, the, the blanket over his head. So people are staring like who's being pushed in this wheelchair with a blanket and he, and he's sick and he's not well. And, and then he has to go back. And then as he said, the line forms again with everybody wanting him to sign, will you be my wingman or whatever?
Sonny00:58:29It's come up with something better. The, this is my, this is the thing I beg of anybody who's listening right now. If you ever go to a convention and you are getting something signed, please pick something that is not the most famous thing that that person has done to get them to sign. Like it could have been kiss, kiss, bang, bang or Spartan or I, you know, I mean, even like, even if go back to like real genius or something like, but like not Top Gun, frankly, not even heat or. Tombstone, like something else.
JVL00:59:03So, so here is the way I think you can watch this and not be depressed because it is quite depressing. I think we can all agree. Yeah. The comic-con thing was like the wrestler.
Sonny00:59:15It is frequently depressing. It is frequently depressing.
JVL00:59:17So, so Kilmer is an actor and he is a real artist, I think. I mean, you know, he, he, he has all, all of that creative soul disposition stuff that, that is affectation in a lot of people who are not serious actors is real for him. And what happened to him is like a great painter going blind. The, the, the thing that you do is simply taken away from you and you can still live in the world. You're, you're around the world, but you are held at a total remove from what it was that was your everything, your essence. And the fact that even his face has changed as a result of the, of the drugs makes you think that he's almost like locked in, like that he's not there anymore. You know, that Val Kilmer is gone and this, this golem is here instead. But there are, there are moments when the, the film really shows how wrong that is. And it's all about body motion. You see him sort of playfully walking through, I think it's the Juilliard building and he's, he's like, Stealing along the wall and doing a little dance. And those are all, those are his movements. That's right. You recognize that and, and they, those are moments when you realize, no, no, he's in there. That guy is still in there. He doesn't look like him. He can't talk like him, but he, he can't do the work anymore, but he is there. And what this movie is, is it is the act of him being able to create again. And it's, it's very different because it's a documentary and because his son, who very uncannily sounds like him and has an incredibly similar voice. I thought it was him. I was so confused how he was able to talk until he realized it was his son. But this movie is him being able to create again. And in a way that had he been also a writer, he might've been able to, you know, he would've kept going, right? It wouldn't be fine. Had he been a producer or a director, it would've been fine. He could've kept going. But he was just an actor. He was a pure actor and he couldn't do it anymore. But this movie lets him. Express the need of his soul again.
Sonny01:01:32And that makes it kind of beautiful.
?01:01:34Yeah.
Vic01:01:35Good movie. Thank you, JVL. Well put. And that's a good way I think we can end this. Until we get to our special episode coming up for subscribers.
Sonny01:01:44Yeah.
Vic01:01:45We're going to do a draft. Val Kilmer draft.
Sonny01:01:47It's going to be very exciting. Special rules.
Vic01:01:49We don't want to miss it. You don't want to miss it. Corrections, shout outs, anything? Everything okay? Everything good? Good. No. That is all the time we're giving to this episode. Questions, comments, compliments, tweet. It's at Sonny Bunch, Jonathan Victorino Matus. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on Patreon. Just go to subbeacon.com. We are there. Tell your friends. Until next time. Okay. So finally, this whole thing about Vic's Restaurant. Not to be confused with, there was a famous one in New York. I think it was Vic's Cafe. Trader Vic's. Trader Vic's. And then of course there was like a, there was like a Victor's Cafe, but that was Cuban in New York. This was a place called, excuse me, Vic's Oven. And listener and friend Tanya McKenna put it up there on Twitter and asked, what's on the menu? Which is lovely and funny until you see the picture on the window is a giant octopus with tentacles splayed out. Now, why would anyone think that I would want a restaurant?
Sonny01:02:56My octopus teacher.
Vic01:02:58Yes. For a restaurant. I mean, come on. It's Vic and there's an octopus with tentacles. And I just I just want to add one other point because I looked it up. Where is Vic's Oven? And it's located in Beaver, PA.
Sonny01:03:18I'm sure it's fine.
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