#34. 'F9: The Fast Saga'
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With Vic on vacation, pollster and self-described Fast & Furious superfan Kristen Soltis Anderson steps into the third chair to cover F9: The Fast Saga. Sonny is unmoved, arguing the film is really two movies duct-taped together — a self-serious Vin Diesel/Michelle Rodriguez "family" slog versus a much more entertaining, absurdist Tyrese/Ludacris/Natalie Emmanuel half — and rips John Cena as a charisma-free miscast lead, insisting the franchise has never recovered from losing Dwayne Johnson and Jason Statham (he singles out a laughably flabby Vin Diesel "rock-like feat of strength" as the movie's most unintentionally funny moment). JVL slots it into the mid-to-bottom tier of the series but is more forgiving, praising the brother backstory for what it reveals about Dom and cheering the "Justice for Han" payoff; he also breaks sharply with Sonny in defending the choice to keep Paul Walker's Brian alive-but-offscreen as the franchise's most graceful artistic decision. KSA is the episode's true believer, pitching the series as "working-class Mission: Impossible soap opera," ranking 2 Fast 2 Furious dead last and the original film plus five, six, and seven as the peak, and cracking that a cold Corona in hand is the only correct way to watch. The long opening runs through Kristen's elaborate "preparation" for the show (kombucha, a Civilization binge, a deep dive into Peloton instructor Cody Rigsby, and a real-life Tour de France spectator who wiped out the pack), Sonny's San Antonio trip and hotel-standards manifesto, and JVL's saga of a $400 Nordstrom tuxedo shirt worn exactly once, plus dispatches from a run-down La Quinta Inn in Salisbury, MD, where he and Flash are holed up for the (scammy) Youth World Series, capped by a Miss America vs. Miss USA tangent. The show closes on an outtake about a ghoulish Hulu ad targeting a grieving gay widower with Botox.
From the show notes
Vic's on vacation, so we called in a ringer: Kristen Soltis Anderson, official Huge Fan of the Fast and Furious franchise, is here to try and win Sonny and his cold, dead heart over. Can she do it? Plus, Tuxedo Shirt Talk! Peloton Talk! Botox Talk! So many Talks, such little time.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00Y'all ever thought about the wild missions we've been on? We've taken out planes, trains, tanks, I'm not going to even think about the submarines. And now we got cars flying in the air.
JVL00:00:29Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Sub-Beacon. I'm JVL here with Sonny Bunch and in for Victorino Matus, our special guest, Kristen Soltis Anderson. Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is available exclusively on Patreon at subbeacon.com. We also have a store, there's stuff, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Kristen, how are you?
Guest00:00:54I'm doing great. It is such an honor to be here on this very important week.
JVL00:00:58It's a very special week. We had a big thing about what we were going to do for the Fast and Furious episode. Should it be you? Should it be Mary Catherine? Should it be both of you? And ultimately we decided Mary Catherine, she's got a lot going on right now and she, I don't think, could possibly experience Fast 9, F9, the way it should be, which is with a corona.
Guest00:01:27Amen.
JVL00:01:28And so I didn't trust her judgment. We trusted you with this very, very special burden, privilege, duty.
Guest00:01:37It's an honor to be here. And I take it very seriously. The last time I was on the show, I don't believe I was sitting in for anyone. I think it was a four person show. So the fact that I am now sitting in the Vic Mattis chair, I want you to know how seriously I took preparations for this. This afternoon while going to the grocery store. I noticed that there was kombucha for sale in the case next to checkout. So I started my day with some kombucha. Don't worry. It works differently on women than men. I'm not a monster.
JVL00:02:09Oh, okay.
Guest00:02:10Then I came home and I played some Civilization. I had to get in that mindset, you know, had to go dominate some continents, took out Napoleon, took out Kamehameha, had a little trouble with Queen Elizabeth. Cause she has those ship of the lines that are very tough. So played some Civ. And then the most important part, the thing I did just about an hour ago is I got on my Peloton and JVL, I think we need to talk about your Peloton habits here because in the, in the interest of transparency. So look, I'm, I'm somebody who is an obsessive personality. I get very addicted to things very easily. And then I kind of burn out on those addictions. So I got my Peloton back in October. Wrote it like every day for two weeks and then knew that it was destined to become a very expensive laundry rack. But when you said that you got a Peloton and you gave your username out on this show, I thought, okay, I'm intrigued. I'm interested. So I followed you now, my name on Peloton is a secret. It is, this is like, I don't want anybody following me on Peloton. Do not follow me. This is like you on Twitter. Don't follow me on Twitter. Like don't follow me on Peloton. I will not accept your friend request, but I follow you JVL and you guys are always talking about Emma Lovewell, Jess King, your innuendo filled, whatever with these rides. But I took a look at your most recent rides JVL and uh, last Thursday, the day that one Miss Britney Spears delivered moving testimony to a California court. I noticed that you took a Cody Rigsby, Britney Spears ride. So let's talk about how great Cody Rigsby is because I feel like you all have not given him any love on this show and he is my preferred instructor without a doubt.
JVL00:04:16So I was just curious and you know, I love Britney who doesn't love Britney and I was, you know, look, I was in college, I took a couple of pops. I was curious as to what the Cody Rigsby thing was all about. And I got to say, I can see exactly who his target audience is, but it isn't me.
Guest00:04:38His target audience is me. I was 14 years old in 1998. I was a member of the drama club in a high school in Orlando, Florida, like Cody Rigsby. I'm his audience. He is for our listeners who don't know who Cody Rigsby is. He is a big Britney Spears fan. He's a big Disney fan. He has a tattoo of Mickey on the inside of his bicep and he is very just energetic, excited, loves playing 90s pop.
JVL00:05:10Keep going. Go ahead. Any other ways you'd like to describe him?
Sonny00:05:14How else would you describe this individual man? Cody is gay. Oh, right. Yes.
Guest00:05:19Yeah.
Sonny00:05:20I mean, that's a... I wasn't sure if you were beating around the bush here.
Guest00:05:22That's one big piece of his personality. I think the Britney Spears part is the biggest part.
Sonny00:05:27I wasn't sure if we were doing innuendo here.
Guest00:05:30No, that's not how I roll, gentlemen. So Cody's wonderful. I have realized that his classes are easier than everybody else's classes because anytime I take another instructor's class, I immediately feel punished like, "Oh, we're warming up at a resistance of 40." That's cute.
JVL00:05:48That's funny.
Guest00:05:49Yeah.
JVL00:05:50So yeah. How do you like Cody? First of all, so I did not follow you back because I only follow back people who I know. And I guess when you followed me, it was with your super double secret whatever your Peloton handle is. And so I couldn't follow you. Will you tell me offline? So I can follow you back?
Guest00:06:09I might.
Sonny00:06:10It'll depend on how this show goes, honestly. You can't tell him now because people will then see who he follows and use it to figure out what your secret name is.
Guest00:06:19Well, I can reject and approve, too. Nothing is public. And in order to follow me, there are people I know who have requested me as a Peloton friend, and I have not accepted that request. I love you guys. I do not want you to see how out of shape I am. Yeah.
JVL00:06:34I'm just not interested. So this is I said this a little bit. I don't know if it was in this show or not. As much as I like the eye candy aspect of the Emma Lovewell, Jess King, Leanne Hainsby, and Olivia D'Amato or whatever her name is, who is an utter smoke show, they are for the most part not actually my preferred instructors. Because it's a lot of just woo girl, you know, like Leanne Hainsby, God love her, who it looks like a supermodel with a British accent and what more could you ask for? But if I have to hear her say the word sparkles one more time on a ride, like I want to reach through the through the screening and kill her. And I turn out to I really like Christine Dercol, who is like our age, you know, masters professional cyclist, really like Matt Wilpers, pro cyclist. I like the people who are more technical minded coaches, much more than the motivation. For me, like the Peloton instructor is somebody. Can you feel the power in this room? We're here to be the best version of yourself. And I that interests me much less than here's how you smooth out your pedal strokes and get like an extra five percent of efficiency.
Guest00:07:52Oh, and see, I'm not interested in either of those things I'm interested in. Guys, let's have a conversation about which flavor popsicle is the best flavor, because I'm pretty sure it's green. That was a Cody class recently. Cody, those sort of intellectual topics. That is what I am coming for.
JVL00:08:14Cody has a very devoted.
Guest00:08:15You can see why I loved this film, by the way.
JVL00:08:18Cody has a very devoted following. So this is great. I did not realize you were you were part of Peloton, I mean, very, very tangentially.
Guest00:08:27I don't want to. This is where if you had had Mary Catherine on the show, you would have an actual athlete who does actual rides instead of I'm very much a tourist who occasionally gets on the bike.
Sonny00:08:39But I think it's great that we've been talking about Peloton on the show, and Vic has almost certainly said the word Peloton and somebody killed the Peloton at the at the Tour de France this week. Someone actually killed the Peloton.
Guest00:08:51They they finally arrested this lady. Oh, JBL.
JVL00:08:54You didn't see this. No. Tell me what's going on.
Sonny00:08:57So the Tour de France is going on, you know, and and everybody's riding together in the group, the Peloton, if you will. And some crazy sparkling out, I guess. I mean, they whatever whatever professional bicyclists do in between shooting up, you know, the horse steroids and frozen blood, hoping their blood. But but like the some crazy lady sticks out a big sign that I couldn't tell if it was a pro rider sign or like an advertisement sign. Sometimes, like streakers will write, like, you know, sports bet 360 or whatever on their 500. Right. I couldn't tell what it was exactly, but she sticks the sign out and it knocks the guy on the edge of the Peloton off his bike and wipes out 80 percent of the field. Just like destroys, just destroys the entire race like before anyone had a chance to really get going.
JVL00:09:49Was she an old lady?
Sonny00:09:50No, I don't think so. I don't know. They they. But but Kristen is right. They just arrested somebody for that. I saw this either today or yesterday or, you know, something like that.
JVL00:10:02So you know what? The nice thing is you can't fall off your Peloton at home. Or I should say, I imagine it's pretty hard to fall off your Peloton at home.
Sonny00:10:12Well, you can't fall off your bike, but you can fall off the treadmill and die. Get like your face stuck under it.
JVL00:10:19That's for true.
Sonny00:10:20That's all. That's the scary thing.
JVL00:10:22Yeah.
Guest00:10:23Don't do that. I think the moral of the story is just don't exercise. Don't exercise. Or really.
JVL00:10:28I've done that for the last two years, Christian, and it has not worked out so well for me.
Sonny00:10:33Getting back to the gym has been has done wonders for my ability to breathe while walking. So it's been it's it's a real it's a real pick me up when I can walk around and not like want to die.
JVL00:10:44I don't sweat when I eat anymore. Yeah, that's great.
Sonny00:10:50The strain of lifting the fork to my mouth is no longer overwhelming.
JVL00:10:54Santino, how are you, man?
Sonny00:10:56I'm good. I'm good. We went to San Antonio for a vacation. Thank you for having the lovely J pod fill in for me last week. I didn't I did not listen to the show. As you know, I don't listen to podcasts. So you'll have to fill me in if he said anything about me. But the I was very it was very nice of him to sit in. Thanks.
JVL00:11:19Thanks, John. Appreciate it. I got an email from one of our listeners who said, if I could, I want to take this episode with John and have it bronzed. That's like, I was like, I want an NFT of this episode because it was that good.
Sonny00:11:32It was a long episode. It was like an hour and 15 minutes was one of the one of the longer Sub-Beacons. You guys had a lot to talk about. But anyway, I'm back. I'm back.
JVL00:11:43Did you watch in the heights with your family when you were in San Antonio? Because that sounds like a really fun thing to do.
Sonny00:11:48No, I watched in the heights. The like Friday, it came out or the Thursday it came out so I could talk about it on one of my other podcasts across the movie aisle. I watched it on my OLED on in Dolby Vision and really I you could just see everything you could see it all and I only wanted to die like four times. Mostly I was just bored. It's just boring. It's a boring movie. And I'm glad I didn't have to talk about it anymore. Then on one podcast, I did have a fashion question of a fashion question. So I am going to a wedding this weekend. It's a it is a. It is a wedding that starts at six and it noted formal attire on the invitation, which I take to mean tuxedo, right? I take to me. I take that to mean black tie. Yeah, that's that's OK. But this this this caused an issue for me. Luckily, I still a fit into my wedding tuxedo. So I got I got that that covered. But I did. I want I wanted to get your guys opinion on the shirt, the tuxedo shirt. Do you prefer the pleated the like ten pleats? Across the front or the like textured bubbled thing that I think is is more in vogue now. I've seen that seen that more in recent years. JBL, you're saying texture bubble texture bubble.
JVL00:13:13Yeah, I have not worn a pleated tux shirt since my high school prom. OK, yeah, you agree to say it's a classic.
Guest00:13:23I don't have a strong opinion about this. I am texting my husband right now. I will have a strong opinion about this so that I can confer with somebody who actually knows things about why I mean, it's just it's just I like I have worn I have worn the pleated
Sonny00:13:37shirt for for again, like that's what I basically always wear because that's kind of a traditional tuxedo shirt. But I decided I actually picked up a I picked up a new with the with the textured bubble thing because again, I'm not I'm not 100% sure. I'm not 100% sure that everybody else is going to be in black tie at this wedding. So I want something that I can at least plausibly treat as like, hey, it's just a suit. It's just a suit with a shirt, which I think you're in black tie and they're not that reflects
JVL00:14:10poorly on them.
Sonny00:14:11Agreed. I look I agree. I agree with this. I if this is one of these things where like any chance any excuse I am given to wear a tuxedo I will do it just because it's fun. It's fun to wear tuxedos. But yeah, I it it. It's a change for me to change and I was curious if you guys have thoughts, but if you don't have thoughts.
Guest00:14:33Have I? I have Chris. I have gotten an update from Chris. He says this is his response. All I asked was what kind of tux shirt is the right tux shirt and his response was wing tip collar is the technical tux shirt collar but so stuffy and then I said what about pleated or whatever that other option is and he said pleated or just flat. I think the other is called but not positive. I don't know what these tux mean. The reason why his tux is important to him is he bought a tux for our wedding. He got one, he found one on sale on like guilt group or something by this tailor named Martin Greenfield who is apparently pretty famous who had done like you know suits for I think he did the costumes for Boardwalk Empire like a bunch of a bunch of other you know prominent people and Chris needed to get something fixed on the suit. He said hey next time you're in New York come by our you know our studio out in Brooklyn and so we take the subway out in Brooklyn like out I mean it's like we're going back in time into like Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and you go into the studio and it is it looks like it has been frozen in time since 1960 and apparently they actually did wind up using this studio as a set for Marvelous Mrs. Maisel a few years later so he gets the suit all done we take it on our honeymoon because we're going to Nice and we know we're gonna take the train over to Monaco for a night and go to the casino at Monte Carlo I regret to inform you literally no one else there is wearing a tuxedo yeah so it was fun he ordered a martini at the bar and it came in a rocks glass and I could like see his heart snap like it was so it's a good memory we just like being wildly overdressed in a situation where no one knows who we are and it doesn't matter it was fun but that's you were doing it for you not for
Sonny00:16:27them oh yeah no I'm pro I'm pro wearing a tuxedo just just because just because just in a situation where you you you may not necessarily be required to but it is it is still fun too
JVL00:16:42because it's like have I ever told you about my tuxedo shirt story no have I told you this so so I bought my tux I think in college you know early in college because I had a bunch of formal things I had to wear it for and I come to DC and I'm 23 and the the old magazine used to always get a couple tables the White House Correspondents Dinner and somebody can't go at the last minute and I don't know was Bill or Fred or somebody was like hey do you want to come to the to the dinner and to me age 23 this is the most magical thing that could ever possibly happen to me and so I decide that I am going to do it up and I'm going to treat myself to a new much cooler tux shirt but I am 23 years old and I don't know where one buys a tux shirt really I'm reasonably due to Washington and so I go out to the Nordstrom on Wisconsin Avenue out sort of towards the Chevy Chase part of the world and and I walk in and I pick out the shirt that I think looks really kind of awesome and I think it was Joseph Abood maybe and I didn't there was no price on it but I didn't bother to ask because I figured it's a fucking shirt right I mean how much could a shirt be and this is this is the White House Correspondence Center I am willing to to buy an extravagant shirt
Sonny00:18:10for so let me what let me your idea of extravagant at the age of 23 you know making editorial assistant money at the the weekly standard it's probably like $70 shirt I would have
JVL00:18:23paid $200 for that shirt and done it happily. I was making 18 grand a year just for for a sense of scale so I get up to the checkout and the sales clerk wings brings me up and this shirt is $400 and here's the thing had it been 300 I would have said oh no thank you but the number 400 was so crazy it's like it's like having your arms. Cut off by a samurai sword like for the first couple minutes you don't even realize it's gone you know like you're you're just in shock it's like I'm I watch myself handing over my credit card for them to ring this thing up with and I I you know like that the next memory I have is being back in my apartment in shirlington or no not sure I was in Arlington and I'm looking at this this bag which feels like it's made out of cream paper you know and I'm looking at this and I'm looking at the receipt and I'm like oh my oh my god I this is like the price of a DVD player like this is this is this is 140th of my entire salary for the year and so I I didn't quite know what to do and eventually I just said you know what like this is this is it I have made it I'm going to the White House Correspondents Dinner I'm just gonna live with it and so I lived with it and I wore that shirt once and then a couple months later my younger brother was going to his senior prom and asked if he could borrow my tux and I said yeah yeah that's cool you can borrow my tux and I sent him the tux and the shirt the $400 shirt did the shirt cost more than the tux oh yeah yeah I'm sure it did and anyway yada yada yada nobody ever wore the shirt again.
Sonny00:20:27So $400 it was worn twice yeah that's gonna happen that's gonna I'll be honest one of the reasons I got this new shirt was because I took a look at my tuxedo shirt when I unwrapped it to try it on you know got it out of the dresser bag or whatever and I looked as like oh I did not take this to the dry cleaner the last time I wore it did I this is a this is a bad scene on this shirt. I took it to the drycleaner and actually it came back it was fine it like it I totally wear it's like spotless now so good job Dallas drycleaner person do it.
JVL00:21:07I don't like the wingtip the wingtip collars on on these things either I agree with Chris that that is the classic but you it should be a normal dress shirt style collar all right well good we got that shirt talk enough enough shirt talk so I am that's a whole new bracket
Sonny00:21:26in the. The next or a whole new division in the next bracket shirt talk yeah so I am coming to
JVL00:21:35you live from the La Quinta Inn in Salisbury Maryland where flash and I are hunkered down for the youth world series. It is. So I could ask this of you guys Vic would laugh at me. Do you have certain. Needs requirements when it comes to places that you stay overnight.
Sonny00:22:03I don't I'm not 100 percent sure what sort of innuendo where we're working on here but
Guest00:22:11that's why I'm letting Sonny answer first.
JVL00:22:13No I mean for when it comes to hotels do you have a certain level below which you just like you're too old for this shit and you just won't do that anymore.
Sonny00:22:25Yes my my level is I will not share a room. With somebody anymore I will not like unless it's like a suite you know with multiple sleeping areas I am not I am I am to the point in my life where I will pay money for a hotel room by myself but that's really about it like that's it like you would still go to a days in yeah you would still stay at a red roof and I wouldn't I wouldn't like go out of my way to stay at a days in or a red roof in but if a red roof in was the most convenient option to where I was. Where I was staying then yeah I would I would do that okay you're a monster okay say where
Guest00:23:02are you on this I'm on this at the point where I have had to travel so much for business that I have racked up enough hotel points that the hotel is like almost always the thing that I will splurge on or use points for it's not I'm not like above staying in a days in or something like that but I have just traveled too much to not be like you know what I'm going to spend some points on the Westin I'm just going to do it that's good for me having having a nice bathroom is like that for me is the most important thing a nice bathroom I'm okay with you know I've stayed in plenty when I do focus groups sometimes you have to stay in places where there's not a super nice Westin right that's okay like the four points Sheraton that'll get you by just fine the AC might be a little loud whatever but like the bathrooms always really clean and usually pretty recently renovated and so that's perfect for me that's like that's kind of where my budget travel level is yeah
JVL00:24:05I I have some requirements and the place where we are at the La Quinta Inn in Salisbury Maryland I mean first of all the problem is that there were no good hotels within like fifty miles of this place yeah but the second problem is that the Youth World Series is a scam and and the Youth World Series scams you in many ways for instance each team pays like three thousand bucks to get in but then if you are a parent or a sibling of a child who is playing you have to pay twenty five dollars ahead to get in to watch your kid play hmm interesting
Guest00:24:48is this related to the Little League World Series which I always understood to be a legitimate
JVL00:24:52enterprise that was very entertaining to watch this is this is the Miss Universe to you know to to the Miss America right and we're we're the Little League World Series
Sonny00:25:02is missing no idea which no idea which one of those is like this is the faith actually
JVL00:25:07fairly legitimate but anyhow go ahead well there's one that isn't right the the whoever is the Miss America from the Miss Universe Pat right like them the the actual Miss America scholarship winner because it is a scholarship contest she does not go to you know Miss Universe right like she she's off doing charity and I think the no Miss U.S.
Guest00:25:26a that is the pageant that our former president used to be I believe an investor in in some way correct yes that is a different franchise than Miss America which is the scholarship pageant shout out the new Miss Florida by the way who is a gator and who I I had a chance to meet she came to DC for part of her platform work and had coffee with a variety of of female leaders in Washington so I I've actually met I have someone I'm rooting for in the next Miss America pageant who I have met it's very exciting.
JVL00:25:56That is exciting do you do the Miss America pools?
Guest00:26:00No I've never done any kind of betting but I actually think a bingo card could be pretty
JVL00:26:04interesting that would be fun anyway the the point of all this is that there is nothing here and the biggest scam in all of this is that you can't even Airbnb because the tournament rules uh somehow the tournament has partnered with a number of local hotels like the La Quinta Inn and every team is responsible for renting a certain number of nights from the approved list of hotels and if you do not your team has to pay like the luxury tax in the NBA your team has to pay money into the so clearly kickbacks all of which is designed to keep you from just getting an Airbnb.
Sonny00:26:44Travel sports in general seem like a big scam.
JVL00:26:48So I am in this falling apart dilapidated La Quinta Inn. I think I'm sleeping on top of the sheets tonight uh I don't know if I can live like this. Honestly, I don't know that I'm able to stay here the full five days you go sleep in the
Sonny00:27:00van.
JVL00:27:01I I might need to down by the river. Yes, I might be forced to know I didn't drive. I drove out here in the commuting car because it's me and flash but it yeah yeah I mean
Sonny00:27:15I I understand what you're saying and like but in your situation I would just be like whatever I gotta sleep somewhere this is as good as anyplace else I mean like when we went to San Antonio.
JVL00:27:27It's not as good as any place else. It's not as good as what I deserve Sonny.
Sonny00:27:31It's it's good as it's as good as any place else that you are within like easy access to is is my point it's not it's not like you have a choice between like the you know the La Quinta or I don't know the what's the what's the bed and breakfast out 66 a little in it Washington little Washington you know it's not like you're it's not like you're you know really sacrificing a lot here by staying at this place as opposed to the days in or the comfort in or the red roof in or whatever it's you know it just it is what it is but the but but you mentioned this but like when when we went to San Antonio this this week I we were looking at hotels and like we're bringing our dogs so that like immediately cuts out like 80% of the places you can stay but then on top of that it was like we looked at some one bedroom places and we were like about to book and I was like wait a second okay wait wait wait we're gonna have two children and us in the same 300 square foot sleeping space for five straight days we can't do that we'll go insane we'll go insane so we we like we we smartly like took a step back we're like all right let's find a place let's find a suite and we found it we found a nice place in in San Antonio to stay it was it was like a little more expensive but we we had our own sleeping space and this gets back to my general rule which is that I don't I have no interest in sharing sleeping space with anyone I'm not getting a I'm not getting two doubles
JVL00:29:01I just can't do two stars anymore I can't do two stars anymore I can't three or above uh I need three or above and look it's not that I'm a fancy gentleman or something when I when I was 20 22 years old I would sleep on the floor at you know in a cabin or something and and if I'm gonna be backpacking somewhere that's cool right I can I can sleep under the stars in a tent that's fine but like run down it's a million times worse that's
Sonny00:29:26a million times worse than a la quinta in you that's where bears live you'll get eaten you sleep out in the woods yeah sunny is correct on this one uh okay so listen we have a lot
JVL00:29:38of talk uh about the movie f9 f9 the fast saga f9 is it a fast saga or the fast saga the fast the fast saga uh so let's let's get down to the meat and potatoes sunny would you like to give us a big boy review
Sonny00:29:56this movie's bad it's a bad movie uh kristen i'm sorry i know this i know i'm breaking your heart here i so here's i i it's it's hard for me to to put my finger on exactly why this movie doesn't work for me but i think it has to do with this which is that it's two movies in one and the first movie is this kind of self-serious weird slog with vin diesel and michelle rodriguez and they're always talking about family and it's a family family it's not dramatic idea so much as a mantra that they repeat family family family and they've got these crucifixes and they're all these flashbacks to john cena who has no charisma and should be nowhere near the starring role of any major motion picture above 10 million dollars uh in budget um uh and that movie is that movie is just like weirdly boring and hard to watch and not not at all entertaining and then there's a second movie that i actually like quite a bit more because it leans into the absurdity of it and this is the movie with uh tyrese and ludacris and natalie emmanuel uh which is which is a much more over-the-top absurd uh like big dumb action movie um which has things like a disputation on the idea that they're actually immortal beings who cannot be killed and and are invincible and like this is this is the world in which they live and that that movie is much more entertaining to me because it it leans into the idea that this is a big dumb action movie and it's kind of self-aware um but it's not annoyingly self-aware there are movies that are annoyingly self-aware this is not like that uh and and if the whole movie had been ludacris and tyrese and uh natalie emmanuel i and like the the guys at the german jet propulsion lab i who i think are from tokyo drift um i like i could have gotten on its level i think but as it is you know this movie this movie fails in part because i'm not even going to talk about the plot because the plot is like there's no there's no point in talking about the plot they're trying to get a mcguffin that uh kurt russell has acquired and lost and they're they're you know whatever saving the world the internet and satellites uh and and death and that's that's like the plot but the the uh the the problem with this movie the big the biggest problem with this movie aside from it being two movies kind of smushed together is that it is almost entirely bereft of the rock and jason statham who are the two actors who actually saved the franchise and made it made it interesting for a couple of years uh the f5 and f6 um and f7 to a lesser extent you know the the though that that that like little trilogy kind of in the heart of the rest of the movie uh franchise series is much more interesting and much better because it has two guys who can actually carry a movie on their own together working in tandem with all of these other people who really can't ben diesel who i like in the pitch black movies is just not good in these uh you know paul walker's gone r.i.p um so he's he's not there anymore to to do to to carry the stuff gal gadot gone you know she's been written off off the franchise um i i i don't i don't see how you can make a 200 million dollar movie that is a star-driven property and take the guys who are just objectively speaking the two biggest movie stars from the franchise and remove them from it entirely it it it it's not how this works it's not how like big budget action star-driven vehicles work um so yeah i i like there are just so there's so many um but the the one that stands out the most and i i keep mentioning this to everyone because it is it is hilarious is there's a point about two-thirds of the way through the movie maybe maybe 80 of the way through the movie where vin diesel performs a rock-like feat of strength where he is in a he's in a he's in a big uh kind of missile silo sort of structure and he pulls down these walkways on top of himself like samson pulling the temple down on top of him to destroy all of the enemies and he looks like a ridiculous child doing it because again this is the sort of thing where if you put you have rock in that same exact scene it looks kind of epic and awesome because rock the rock is jacked he's big dude with big muscles and he's got really good definition he's strong and vin diesel is like not a small dude but he's also like kind of flabby not he's not the rock he's not he's not even jason statham uh he's he's just kind of like and so when he's doing it i literally laughed out loud in the theater i just laughed out loud in the theater because i was like this is absurd this is you look ridiculous vin diesel why are you doing this to yourself and why are you doing this more importantly to me why am i having to put up with this um so yeah i i don't like this movie and i i don't like the series in general even even when i like kind of appreciate some of the uh some of the middle the middle movies that like again lean into the absurdity of it all and and kind of have that star power i prefer hobbs and shaw to this hobbs and shaw i think is a much better movie um because again it's because again it's it's two guys who are actually compelling to watch on screen uh hanging out with each other the other i'm sorry i haven't even mentioned this on any of the with any of the people i've talked to the other big crime in this movie is that you have charlize theron who is legitimately a great actress and the five minutes she's on screen are like the most compelling things in the world and she's
Guest00:36:01just totally separated from everybody no i can't i can't hold it in anymore i'm sorry she's in that
Sonny00:36:07box and she's not doing anything it's just this movie needs more charlie's part no she's the
Guest00:36:13more dwayne johnson more jason statham i knew you were gonna be wrong i didn't know you're gonna be this wrong in this particular way jvl what did you think about this movie no no no
JVL00:36:24can't say i put my cards on the table
Guest00:36:26okay so i think for our listeners who have not seen the movie yet i i know you are dismissive of the plot i think a broad explanation vaguely of what we're trying to do here matters i mean yes there is they're trying to get a mcguffin super weapon or does not matter but the other issue here is that john cena is it is in it theoretically playing an important part of fleshing out dom's backstory and look if you're not in a vin diesel you're not in on this movie right you're just if you don't like vin diesel i get it you're not gonna like this movie i can't persuade you to like vin diesel but it is his franchise in fact that's part of what made it like if i'm and we can rank the movies at the end of this if you'd like but one of the things that i think made the eighth movie one of the worst and why i cut this film a little slack because it has to clean up a lot of messes that the last movie made one of those messes is that vin diesel and the rock hate each other that the rock shows up in fast five which in my view is one of the best in the franchise you're right the rock electrifies it the rock adds this whole new ingredient to the franchise that is exciting he's funny he's perfect for it but vin diesel and the rock just they do not see eye to eye and so in the eighth movie the rock and vin diesel are not in any scenes together and so the movie goes to these like weird great lengths to keep them off screen because they refuse to be on set together and so the movie goes to these like weird great lengths to keep them off screen because they refuse to be on set together which is why the rock and statham had to go do their whole own franchise but the other problem with the statham piece is that this is this gets to the justice for han movement and so this is the the biggest sin that the eighth movie committed is there is a beloved character in this franchise named han and everyone knows that han died in a street race in tokyo drift what this film presupposes is maybe he didn't die but he's han is one of the best characters in this franchise and because you have to understand this franchise as first and foremost a soap opera that means that if there's not a body they're not dead like this franchise plays by soap opera rules and so they had to find a way because justin lynn the director of this movie had come back he heard that the eighth film was putting jason statham who he is the villain of the seventh movie he's the best villain the franchise has had but he's a villain and the eighth movie he joins the crew and at the end he's sitting at the barbecue having coronas with everybody and that is ridiculous nonsense that is unjust if someone murders your friend in cold blood you do not invite them to the barbecue they do not become family they killed family and so the eighth movie was kind of a mess and had the potential to have wrecked the franchise this movie is trying to clean up a lot of that mess and has to go to some extreme lengths to do it
Sonny00:39:30uh one thing uh the you you say it's a soap opera but it's not really a soap opera it's an anime series because this is the arc of every anime series ever the villain from the previous season becomes part of the like crew of heroes of the next one and they have to take on the even bigger villain that's that's how that's how these and that's the same thing that happened with the rock the rock is the villain in the fifth one right i mean he's the he's the
Guest00:39:56villain he was like an antagonist he's the antagonist and then he joins the team and he
JVL00:40:04becomes family no he's tommy lee jones from the fugitive again the antagonist no the one-armed man is the antagonist yes no he's the villain i it seems to me like justin lynn is talking back to the audience not not just with the han stuff but with the do you guys remember the meme after the the fast eight or fate whatever the last one was whatever number eight was with the you know as people were were dunking on the idea of the cars with the submarine and the ice they're like what's next fast furious in space and justin lynn is like yeah motherfuckers and he he literally he doesn't just take them to space he takes them to space in in a pontiac forenza right fierro yeah the arrow right and in and so part of me is thinking okay so he's doing this out of love but then there's that scene where ludicrous and and tyrese are sitting in in in the pontiac fiera getting ready to go and and they're having this bizarre conversation and and ludicrous says to him over and over again look it'll work look at the number numbers it's just math it's physics it's math it's gonna work and that was the moment where i thought okay maybe this isn't all in good fun maybe he's angry with maybe he's angry with his audience
Guest00:41:41and he's trying to like rub their noses in it no that's the joke that was like one of the best lines in the movie because they've spent the entire film doing things that are patently ridiculous they like there's a scene earlier in the film when a a rope bridge in costa rica or somewhere in central america is like falling and they're driving up they drive up a bridge yes that is not connected to anything there is a point in time where vin diesel drives his car off a clip to catch part of this bridge to bungee around a mountain no one's wearing seat belts they land it's fine at one point letty is on a motorcycle she gets hit by a truck while she's in midair and apparently if you land on the hood of a car no matter the height you're fine but there's even the franchise the franchise is full of this nonsense ever since like in fast five when you have uh dom and brian jump off that massive waterfall cliff in rio they would have died i'm aware i'm not unfamiliar with how this works they should have died they didn't that's the joke that this film is all about physics not actually mattering yeah i
JVL00:42:56and again that's fine so i i agree with you kristen that there is i really like the brother stuff because i like what it tells us about dom's character and this is so i i the day before we went to see this i re-watched the the original and so much of the reveal of dom is is about it is showing us pieces of the assault which lands him in jail right and so you know first you have about how controlled he is and then one of the the one of the cops says controlled did you see the picture of the guy that he beat nearly half to death the tire iron and then dom tells him this tells paul walker the story of why he did it right didn't uh and he's he's broken up about it this is the guy's like a janitor now he can barely walk uh and it it tells you all sorts of interesting things and then this comes back and now i think it does some of the things wrong with the story but the idea of it being a brother that dom blames for it but then the brother was actually trying to respect the dead i like that stuff the problem is it doesn't play because of cena cena is horribly miscast in this movie and i i weirdly enough will defend cena in wrestling terms so smart smart wrestling fans hated cena his whole run i i would make a comp we want to tell you we're going to take like a 45 second digression on wrestling i would say that what cena did for the wwe is really hard to do and it is not meant to please the smart wrestling fans it is meant to provide a center of gravity for the franchise for a decade which allows uh kids to cycle into wrestling and get hooked on wrestling and buy up sell a bunch of merchandise and stuff like that while without dominating all the storylines and allowing other characters to tell better stories than he's involved in telling so that's that's a skill and there was really nobody else who could have done that uh but he is not he's a bad actor
Guest00:45:10and he's a bad actor without any charisma he there's one role that i've seen him in in a movie that i enjoyed very much and it's in a film that i should have loved but wound up not liking much at all it's tina fey and amy poehler are in a movie called sisters the premise of the movie is they are you know women in their late 30s 40s their parents live in orlando and are retiring and are selling their childhood home and so they go back to throw one last rager in their childhood home and john cena shows up as like drug dealer bodyguard for a drug dealer i don't totally remember but his the whole point is that he just is like stone-faced and doesn't talk and people do funny things around him and he's actually kind of good in that particular role so i had very high hopes for this
Sonny00:45:56yeah he's funny in the amy schumer movie was the train wreck he he has like one scene in that and
JVL00:46:02is is not bad he's bad in this and you know what sonny i'm i'm sorry uh i like vin diesel as a screen presence i like him as an actor i mean when when he there's a couple times as in in f9 where he like just explodes with rage and you know like that's really effectively done i mean it it is very the dom character of this guy who's really tightly wound who every once in a while like loses his grip on i i like that stuff um i like vin diesel in other things i like vin diesel in
Sonny00:46:37pitch black he's okay in the first pitch black i i i like i i like him in chronicles of riddick i think chronicles of riddick is a fun movie uh it's absurd and ridiculous but i i enjoy it i just think he's i just think he's not good in these i i don't i don't care for the character of dom i don't care portrayal kind of mush mouthed uh you know like just i just i don't i don't care for him in these movies uh and i don't really care for much of anybody in these movies well this is how i feel
Guest00:47:06about cypher charlie's theron's character so she's set up as the big bad of eight and unlike a lot of the past villains in these films so in the first movie the villain you you find out is the crew they're the ones stealing the dvds i mean there's kind of a villain in johnny tran who's like the um in the in the second too fast too furious it's you know a miami drug lord shark guy i think uh in the third movie in tokyo it's these kind of yakuza guys and the fourth movie you know it's it's usually like organized crime um but you you kind of get to know them and their motivations a little bit you know fourth movie it's a drug dealer fifth movie it's like a corrupt local politician sixth movie is when you start getting into the like real international intrigue mission like the fifth movie is where it pivots from being street racing heist movies to you know mission impossible working man's mission impossible but um but cypher shows up and i have i still don't understand what cypher is beyond like dr evil but played by and i love charlize theron there's like not another role that she i love her an italian job i love her as furiosa like i'm not anti her and i guess when you have her in your franchise you've got to keep her right you can't jettison her but i thought she like i just thought her that character just does nothing for me and i was hoping they were going to get rid of her instead it seems like she's going to be the big bad for the rest of the franchise which is disappointing yeah i i mean
JVL00:48:41when fast and furious movies are working they they give you three things they are competent action movies uh they're romps where the actors are clearly having a ton of fun on screen and we enjoy spending time with them uh and then they're nostalgic plays and they make you feel warm because we're seeing characters that we've spent 20 years with and i think f9 fails at all of these it's not really a competent action movie uh it doesn't feel like a romp i i really don't get the sense that any of these actors are having a lot of fun which leaves you with just nostalgia and the nostalgia aspect of this it all felt very weird to me um you know again having just watched just say one thing here though sonny um having just watched the the first one in the series it is an incredibly raw movie you know the actors it's got all these interesting young actors none of only one of i guess only one of them is really conventionally good um but looking at the way they've the actors have changed i mean we go from michelle rodriguez in the first fast and furious who just feels like she's dangerous on screen like she might actually pull out a switchblade and cut one of the other actors just to see them bleed you know that but which she does this feral growl at one point in the movie and she's like i smell skank you know it's all it's just great and now letty looks like she's walked out of a chico catalog
Sonny00:50:13am i wrong she looks like the most two decades she's a mom but she looks so respectable is what
JVL00:50:24i'm trying to say is she looks unbelievably put together and respectable and grown up and all of that dangerousness is sanded off of her and i think that's kind of it's just less interesting and it certainly made me wistful because i really the irony is she's almost certainly better at
Guest00:50:42hand-to-hand combat and using an enormous number of weapons in these most recent films than in
JVL00:50:48the first movie when they're just boosting dvds off a truck again and i'm not i'm just saying i miss the un the the the not respectable version of michelle rodriguez who by the way has aged better than anybody else in this series i mean vin diesel weirdly hasn't aged at all and i think it's because there's a lot going on um you can see it a little bit in the crow's feet around his eyes sometimes um but she's aged great i mean she looks like a million bucks and jordana brewster looks great does she even really act anymore aside from popping up for these every once in a while
Guest00:51:25i'm not sure i i am glad that they worked her back in because she got sidelined you know pretty unfairly because she's so linked to the brian character that when paul walker kind of had to be written when brian had to be written out of the franchise she got sidelined her absence i think was a big reason why eight didn't really work as well for me and then so bringing her back and and the okay you're coming back because you're the one that actually kind of kept in touch with this long lost brother it was nicely done it wasn't just hey we need another person driving a car like it i liked that totally agree i mean so look i i this is a thoroughly mid-tier or you know mid to bottom of the mid-tier fast and furious film for me i i'm not saying that it's perfect i don't know that you have to think something every piece of something is perfect in order to love it i think about the oc i actually think there are a lot of parallels between my love and obsession with that show the oc and my love for this franchise i mean i love the oc but i don't that show to me it is not canon nothing in season three of the oc exists sandy never cheats on his wife like none of that is real but it's a soap and that's why like this is too it's the long lost family member coming back to stir up trouble it's the person coming back from the dead and if you think about it as working class mission impossible soap opera it kills it it's diverse without hitting you over the head with it it's rooted in this kind of like christian family values they sit around and they hold hands and they say grace and but i think the most important reason why i love these movies is they make me feel cool when i'm watching them and i can't explain it it's the same way that like i am drinking a corona right now i acknowledge that this is not the world's best beer but when i drink it i feel like i'm on vacation and so that's fine and it is the way these movies make me feel that has me coming back like i came very late to this franchise i had not watched a fast and furious movie until five six years ago um i had heard about paul walker dying that sounded sad i was morbidly intrigued how are they going to finish this movie without him and then i was in a theater and the trailer for seven take three minutes go look at the trailer for seven the first trailer that comes out it starts with them doing the thing where they drop cars out of the back of an airplane to parachute down so they can catch someone the trailer is effing rad like just go watch it and i just remember being in a theater seeing that like whatever this is i want to be a part of this i'm in i don't care what this is about i'm in and so like i went back i watched one and then i skipped two and three because i heard they weren't good three's actually i think been rehabilitated a bit but then like you watch four five and six i was just like i'm in i'm i am bought in you have won me over and and that's where i stay even when the franchise has a dud like an eight that i just think oh well that one wasn't for me uh
Sonny00:54:25jbl you mentioned you mentioned nostalgia uh and and ksa you mentioned paul walker and in him his his absence from these films you know for people who who aren't aware he died during the like before reshoots i think happened for the seventh uh so they had to kind of write him out and cgi his head onto his brother's body or something uh to to kind of get him uh out of the series but they didn't kill him they did not kill the character they did not kill brian um they let him retire with his family off to the you know beaches or whatever um which i think has opened up a lot of weird and bad problems in the series i mean i like i'm sorry but it was weird and creepy to me every time they mentioned that brian is like just off screen hanging out with the kids or the last shot where his car pulls up to the family picnic and they cut to black i'm just like this is this is a manipulative um but b it also just reminds us that paul walker is dead all all this is is a reminder of the tragedy it's not it doesn't it i'm i like it does not work within the uh universe of the film as something signifying anything other than like remember paul walker because we do and he's part of the family so let's think about him now and i think i i just i thought it was really i thought it was like leaving setting aside any issues with storytelling or that sort of stuff i just thought it was personally weird and like uncomfortable to be reminded of this am i wrong am i am i am i like maybe it's just because i i maybe i'm just looking for things to nitpick no i think that's fair i i mean it
Guest00:56:14didn't hit me that same way i actually thought they they did the best they could with because again the justin lynn didn't direct seven and he didn't direct eight so he's trying to figure out how do i like clean up some of these things that have been left to be but in this case a the eighth movie leaves you with dom having this child whose mother is executed in front of him again the eighth movie did a lot of things that i was not a fan of but so like okay now dom's got a kid who's gonna take care of this kid while they're off saving the world right like the brian thing kind of solves that problem the fact that it's a brother of mia jordana brewster's character explains why it's her and not brian coming to the aid of the crew like why is she not the one staying home being child care and brian is back in oh no it's because she's the one that knew jacob like it i think it does the best it can with the weird situation it's been handed i think it would be weirder if they were just like oh yeah brian's at home playing video games he wasn't interested in coming out on this i think they did the best they could with the weird situation they've been handled sunny i i i disagree pretty
JVL00:57:20strongly actually i think keeping the paul walker character alive but off screen is the most interesting artistic choice made in the entire series and in fact i feel weird even saying this but the way i don't remember which of the movies it is i guess it's five where they handle him departing seven is it seven again it was the morbid curiosity of how are they going to do this driving and then you go off and separate i thought that that was it's like the weird face as he's waving no i thought it was great i thought i could not believe that a fast and the furious movie handled it so beautifully and gracefully and note perfectly i was i was shocked at how well that played so i mean maybe that's just me i but uh yeah i love the choice
Guest00:58:17i love the idea that he's there well and that i was gonna say that that moment at the end of f7 where they have that song by charlie poos or whatever the the till i see you again song i mean they have notes of that in this one another thing that i love about these movies is they always produce a soundtrack that makes me almost get a speeding ticket when i'm leaving this the the theater because it's full like this movie had a remix of prodigy's breathe which was kind of perfect because they use it in a scene that is obviously flashing back to like 1995 like a street race that happened in the mid 90s like it's just little things like that that i don't know they're not for everybody but i'm listening to that remix of prodigy breathe and driving irresponsibly for
JVL00:59:01the next week that's for sure all right well i i don't have anything else to to say do you guys
Guest00:59:07want to do more on this or i mean i i do feel like a long show i i we need a ranking like if i was vic i would have like a lot of like question why do magnets only work in the direction that is convenient for the film isn't the truck also metal well to be fair vic would never ask a question
Sonny00:59:25like that vic would be like question where did kurt russell go and that'd be a fair question that would be a fair question he goes down in that airplane and then it's like did he get picked up by one of those roving band of guard thing you know why weren't the people just guarding the airplane the whole time why were they doing like rotating circles of guards just have the people
JVL00:59:50there guarding the airplane can't say i do have one question for you though do you think they earned the face turn for for cena at the end because i that felt to me again even by the standards of fast and furious wildly unearned because the only reason cena joins up with them is because he gets double crossed by his partners there is you know for that to work he needs to have some internal motivation it can't be it can't happen externally it can't be because he's prodded into something and then he decides well i guess i'm screwed over there i'll throw
Guest01:00:35in with these guys right that that isn't earned the only reason i i don't disagree the only reason why i it it didn't it worked a little bit was frankly because of all that nonsense in the caspian sea bunker which that was my least favorite part of the movie like why do they keep going back to some bunker in the middle of the caspian sea like none of that i mean i guess are they waiting for kerr russell to show up that didn't make any sense but at one point cena shows up all his armed dudes have surrounded the la familia and they just let him go like what why is cena are they not cold hard killers all of a sudden like a lot of people have been are dead in this movie none of the people we know this movie had a net negative one body count uh for the main crew we gained a main crew member we didn't lose any this time um but he does like they could have just killed them all right then and they didn't and so that almost to me i guess suggests like cena doesn't actually want to kill all these people he's just trying to satisfy rich euro oligarch guy i i don't know i i agree that it was a little but you're also you're rooting so hard for that reconciliation because you find out that actually their whole brother feud is based on this like really bad misinterpretation of what happened with dom's father's death yeah
JVL01:02:01and dom's father himself is battling jack murdoch like that that was really interesting information right yeah it's great can you give us a quick ranking before we get out
Guest01:02:11yes uh worst too fast too furious even though they give us uh tyrese and ludacris it's still like a sec second the worst is eight for the reasons i've laid out i think four is like top of the bottom tier that's next it's totally forgettable to me even though it is important because it sets up the rest of the franchise next is tokyo drift which i think has aged better i mean it's it's weirdly inserted into the timeline of the franchise in ways that don't totally make sense now um then i would say hobbs and shaw then i would say this one then i'd say the first one and then you go six five seven and and five and seven to me are pretty interchangeable as like the peak of this franchise i love it i think you've under ranked the the original you would i it it is top tier for me i think one six five
JVL01:03:03and seven are all up there i'm looking at sunny's face and i feel like we should hear
Guest01:03:09hello darkness my old friend i tried to go very fast i didn't i could give a dissertation on what i like and dislike about each of these but i will not i will just say seven and five are the ones i would show someone if i wanted to hook them on this franchise i just want
Sonny01:03:25to recycle a joke that i made elsewhere uh on twitter uh that the f-11 should should be the final they're making two more of these and f-11 should of course be f-11 in heaven and vin diesel should uh overthrow god and claim the whole world as his family all of
Guest01:03:45humanity as his family that's that would be a very anime ending i think that's how neon genesis evangelion ends like all of humanity unites in one big family that's the only way
Sonny01:03:55for this movie to bring together the disparate threads of the family movie that is boring and the people talking about how they're immortal and invincible on the other hand you bring them
Guest01:04:05together with vin diesel saying i would support that if it was like the end of that movie this is the end where like who is it uh seth rogan they all show up in heaven and the backstreet boys are there that was my favorite like surprise cameo from in a film that's a great movie i love
JVL01:04:25that flick all right it's been a long show uh i think that's all the time we're gonna give to this episode kazay thank you for coming and sitting in for victorino it's been great uh
Guest01:04:38spirit of the week is corona because you can have any brew you want as long as it's a corona kristen what shirt are you wearing i'm sure it's fine yes ladies order a size up that i don't know if this is like vix doing or something but like they they're a little small
Sonny01:04:55order a size up yeah they're a little small for men too you just it's a narrow cut that's
JVL01:05:01all the time we're giving you this episode see you next time i fumbled that transition all right did you uh do you guys have any outtakes or do you want to talk about botox i want to talk about
Guest01:05:20botox i don't know if i want to talk about on the show well i'm interested in your story
JVL01:05:25so the context of our discussion is that uh we sunny and i did a podcast with our friend tim miller and tim was telling us that there is a hulu uh hulu series he's been watching which is it's a gay series i don't know what it's about but it's like love victor love victor it's very gay and that he does he does not have the ad free version of hulu and that he gets like three times ad for a botox service which uh the main character is this 53 year old gay gentleman who talks about how his uh his spouse has died and he's like really sad and he kind of tears up on camera and then he's being interviewed and somebody says and but you're ready to love again aren't you and he's like i do i just want to be loved again and the idea is then botox because if you don't do botox you will die alone because nobody could nobody could possibly love you looking like you do right now you sad 53 year old gay man and i was outraged and i thought that if this sort of thing was done with a heterosexual woman it would be it would be instantly cancelable right like you you could it's so ghoulish and hard disagree nobody would nobody would let you do something like that i should hope and that it shouldn't be allowed this sort of thing should not be deemed a like commercially perfectly fine way to target uh an audience for your product i agree with you that
Guest01:07:06it is reprehensible i disagree with you that it is not exactly how advertising has worked since
Sonny01:07:13the beginning of time this is what i said this is i said that women get targeted with these ads all
Guest01:07:18the time like the only reason i'm not appalled is because this is an appalling thing that is totally normal how do you think any of this crap is sold to women
JVL01:07:30i i get but but with like dead dead spouses i mean remember okay i'll grant you remember
Guest01:07:42the outrage around peloton lady right yes like yes i will like that but i will grant you that there are instances that get where all of a sudden they do get canceled but i would just suggest that vast majority of the way that women's cosmetics etc have have been marketed probably up until pretty recently has been has been that i mean look at any ad from like the the mad men era like that's that was all it was was like you must buy this lipstick or you will never be married
Sonny01:08:15or you will die alone i mean like that's that's the basis of all advertising if you don't have this thing you will die unhappy and alone you know what though there's something that is
JVL01:08:25more ghoulish i i'm really caught up in the widower part of it though that's like it is one thing that is an extra level to say to a you know a single type person uh you know hey if you want to attract a mate you gotta do you know buy buy our widgets is another to be like hey you were married once you really liked it you're in love weren't you but you're pretty brokenhearted about that now aren't you yeah yeah you missed the guy but you're ready to be in love again aren't you yeah you know nobody will ever
Sonny01:08:55love you again looking like this nobody will ever touch you unless you make your face plastic and flat yeah that's not fine all right
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