#20. 'Zack Snyder's Justice League'
Listen to this episode ↗on Substack, where the show lives now
The main event is the four-hour Zack Snyder's Justice League, released on HBO Max after years of #ReleaseTheSnyderCut fan campaigning. Sonny mounts a passionate auteur-theory defense: it's the same basic plot as the 2017 theatrical cut but everything is better — Cyborg (Ray Fisher) gets a real arc and father relationship, the Junkie XL score has guts where Danny Elfman's was "light and lame," and the boxy 4:3 IMAX ratio makes the godlike figures loom over you — proof, he says, that Joss Whedon (who reshot ~75% of the theatrical version) is "a fraud and a hack"; he gives it a million stars. Vic, no DC guy, is unmoved: a C-minus, with a D for a derivative plot (the cubes feel like Infinity Stones or horcruxes), an F for its punishing duration, an A for action (though he's wearying of CGI superhero violence and pines for the practical stunts of Lethal Weapon 2), and — dropping his months-long N/A dodge — a D for sex/nudity. Much of the review is Vic firing off an earnest question list that Sonny patiently fields (the anti-life equation, the Martian Manhunter standing in for a nixed Green Lantern, how Cyborg found the good-deed waitress, Darkseid vs. Steppenwolf). The hangout covers March Madness bracket carnage (every team Vic named lost; Gonzaga rolls on undefeated), the death of Jessica Walter, and Sonny's rare in-person lunch with Matthew Continetti in Dallas. Vic notes he's finally finished 1984.
From the show notes
So uh ... this was a show. The lesson, as always, is think carefully before you comment, folks. Anyway! The Snyder Cut is real and it's spectacular. We all liked it, kinda! Maybe don't listen with the kids this week? Just put the headphones on.
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00If you can't bring down the Charging Bulls, then don't wave the red cape at it. You're sitting here for a reason. And even if it takes you the rest of your life, find out what that reason is.
JVL00:00:30Hey, this is the Sub-Beacon. I'm JVL, here with Sonny and Vic. What's up, guys?
Sonny00:00:40What's up?
JVL00:00:42How you doing? I'm doing fine. Do you want me to... I'll do it. No, no, no, no, no. You know what? You don't like hosting, and the audience doesn't like me hosting. So you know what? These f***ers...
Vic00:00:57Don't listen to them.
JVL00:00:59I hate it.
Vic00:00:59Don't listen to them. Don't listen to them.
JVL00:01:02I don't want to try too hard to...
Vic00:01:05We need them. No, we don't. No, we don't.
JVL00:01:10You know what? You don't like the f***ing show. You know what you can do?
Vic00:01:16Hello and welcome to another edition of the Sub-Beacon. I'm Victor Matus along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last. Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is now available through Patreon. Go to SubBeacon.com. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe. Tell your friends. And don't forget about the Sub-Beacon merchandise store at tpublic.com. T-shirts, mugs, onesies, and headache shirts, whatever that is. Gentlemen, how are we? Sonny, what's going on?
Sonny00:01:43You know, I don't know that I've ever noticed, Vic, back when you were hosting the show on the reg, that you used Victor Matus instead of Victorino Matus.
Vic00:01:53Oh, always, because you're... What did I just say?
Sonny00:01:58You said Victor Matus. Yeah, I'm Victor Matus. I'm Victor Matus. I'm Victor Matus.
Vic00:02:01It's about beat. It's like you're missing a beat or it's a beat too long. I'm Vic Matus. I'm Vic Matus. Victor Matus. I'm Victorino Matus. See, that's a beat short.
Sonny00:02:10See, I think Victorino has a nice... I'm Victorino Matus. Victorino Matus. Yeah. I think that has a nice rhythm to it.
Vic00:02:16At Victorino Matus. I would have been at Vic Matus, but, you know, the other Vic Matus... Yeah, you have the longest handle in the world. I do, because other Vic Matus took it. What is going on, Sonny?
Sonny00:02:26Not a whole lot. Our friend, friend of the show... Matthew Continetti was in town in Dallas today. Yes, yes. Dallas, he was in town for lunch. He's literally in town for like 24 hours. And it was extremely nice. It's like the first time in like 13 months that I've been able to see... Walk out your door? Like, go, yeah. Like, go to lunch with friends from back in D.C. It was very nice.
Vic00:02:54Friends from back east. Friends from back east. You can now say that.
Sonny00:02:57Yeah. I mean, I still... You know, I have a few... I have a very small handful of friends here in Dallas who I, you know, go out to lunch with. But it was like old times, except for the fact that neither of us was drinking.
Vic00:03:09That's so sad.
Sonny00:03:10And we weren't indoors at a steakhouse. We were outdoors on the patio of a Mexican restaurant.
Vic00:03:16I'm sure the weather was nice now.
Sonny00:03:17It was nice today. It was like in the 60s. It rained this morning, but it was fine by noon, by noontime for lunch. We went to Mezomaya, which is a nice... It's a small local restaurant, Mexican chain.
Vic00:03:33Is it as good as, like, I don't know, California Burrito?
Sonny00:03:38Well, nothing is as good as California Burrito. Nothing is as good as Chipotle.
Vic00:03:44That's right.
Sonny00:03:46But it was very good. It was very good. Very nice.
Vic00:03:50Yeah, he doesn't do... Nobody does day drinking anymore. It's so sad. I'm like the last... I'm the last of my kind.
Sonny00:03:56Not nobody. I am the last.
Vic00:03:58There's one... I'm the last of my breed. That's right. I'm the last of my kind.
Sonny00:04:03Vic's friends just keep getting younger because he keeps having to find, like, 25-year-olds.
Vic00:04:08I'm like the Matthew McConaughey line from Dazed and Confused, except for for alcoholics.
Sonny00:04:13Yeah. I love assistant editors, man. I keep getting older. They stay the same age.
Vic00:04:18They always look up to me. It's great. And then they move on. JVL, what's happening?
JVL00:04:24Nothing. I don't want to try too hard. I don't know why you guys keep me around. I'm so fucking done. Don't you cut that intro, Sonny, either. Don't you dare cut that. I want the people to hear what I think about them.
Sonny00:04:37Maybe I'll put it at the end. If they stick around through the whole Snyder Cut, they can hear what JVL really thinks.
Vic00:04:42I am still recovering from March Madness Massacre. Basically, every team I uttered is gone. Yeah, you killed Virginia, too. Thanks. I did because I mentioned Virginia. And I was worried about them versus Ohio. And, of course, they lost. They lost in the first round. Georgetown, of course, got trounced by Colorado, which is in the Pac-12. I thought you had to be on the actual coast to be a part of, even though I know Arizona was. But that's pushing it. That's like Rockies now, aren't you, when you get to Colorado?
Sonny00:05:15Well, we're going to end up with two conferences eventually. It's going to be the West Coast Conference and the East Coast Conference.
Vic00:05:21I also mentioned UCSB. They're gone. And then I mentioned Houston because I had Houston going far. And, of course, Houston, a number two. A lot of number twos are gone. And the funny thing is you read these things, and they're always like, oh, don't pick Gonzaga. It's too odd. You know what? It's going to be Gonzaga.
JVL00:05:39It's going to be undefeated. It'll be like 1976. Is Gonzaga good this year?
Vic00:05:43Yeah, undefeated. But it'll be the first time since Bobby Knight, I think, if they pull it off. Maybe because I'm mentioning it now, maybe they won't.
Sonny00:05:51Are they playing the games in front of people? Are the stands full?
Vic00:05:56In Indiana, there are some places. There are some places that I believe some of the venues are like 25% or so. Hinkle Fieldhouse has people there. So it's a percentage. Yeah. So people are watching the games spread out. Anyway, JVL, if you want to feel old.
JVL00:06:21Yeah, that's something I don't have happen to me every day.
Vic00:06:24My good friend, our good friend, John Feinstein, do you know he no longer does the complete breakdown in the post anymore? He doesn't do the write-up anymore. You know, nothing in the world is good anymore. I know. He does now a short column, just sort of the highlights of what he thinks our teams to look out for. He doesn't do the full thing. The other one, of course, that we miss is the old Kornheiser column. Remember that? Yeah. Because he would actually make his picks known and he always interviewed.
JVL00:06:59Bayheim? Jim Bayheim. Yeah. Bayheim was the guy who could give you the final four most years.
Vic00:07:06Yes. And even if his team was in it, he would still.
JVL00:07:11Yeah. And I remember the one year he refused to participate was the year they won it with Carmelo Anthony. Carmelo Anthony. That's exactly right. And he said, after the fact, he said to Kornheiser, the reason I didn't is because I actually really thought we had a chance to win. We're going to look up one day and Jimmy Bayheim will be gone. And we should. We should prepare ourselves for that.
Vic00:07:31You mean from this plane of existence? Professionally or do you mean like or do you mean.
JVL00:07:39He's got to be 80 years old.
Vic00:07:41Yeah. You know, I'm confused because Buddy Bayheim, that's his son who's playing?
JVL00:07:47Grandson.
Vic00:07:48Great grandson. How could that be? He's 80. Right. Exactly. I'm very confused. But they talk about it because he's very good. We just lost Jessica Walter today.
JVL00:07:56Yes. I saw that.
Sonny00:07:57R.I.P.
Vic00:07:58I saw that.
Sonny00:07:58I think. I think Play Misty for me is on HBO Max. I meant to look that up. It had been. I don't know if it still is, but I want to watch that. Yeah, I've never. It was one of her first big roles.
JVL00:08:10Have you guys ever seen young Jessica Walter?
Sonny00:08:13Very attractive.
JVL00:08:14Smoke show.
Vic00:08:16How old was she? I mean, she was 14.
Sonny00:08:20She's 80. She died when she was 80.
JVL00:08:21She was 14 years old when she was hot. Oh, I'm sorry. You meant how old was she today? She was a child actress. Give me those photos. She was 80. This is one of the reasons I really did not like and rejected violently against the Netflix arrest development was because she aged a tremendous amount between the end of the Fox run and the Netflix run. Yeah, she looked old. I mean, everybody aged. Everybody got older, but she clearly was not super well.
Vic00:08:50Yeah.
Guest00:08:51I think.
JVL00:08:51They shot her mostly sitting down.
Vic00:08:53I disagree. I think Portia de Rossi just gets better. She looked much younger. In the Netflix version. I'm kidding.
JVL00:09:04Anyway, but there is a Victorino. What happened? What happened to Georgetown? Was that just they just got outplayed or was the spell broken from their Big East run?
Vic00:09:13I can make a million different excuses JVL. One thing is oh, well, you know, it was too much of a break between the time that they were triumphantly defeating Creighton and they were playing four days and four wins and suddenly they're sitting there in Indiana for five days or whatever. And then so by the time they got to. Play at they were cold was coach just really hungry.
JVL00:09:31And so he couldn't focus on the game.
Vic00:09:33Well, you know, I mean he couldn't focus. It was like a Snickers moment and also he just a failure to adjust. So they were popping threes from, you know, well behind beyond the arc. I forget what their percentage was. I could be wrong with something like 56 percent. It was an insane. It was an insane like 16 threes. It was an insane number of threes. So all of a sudden they're getting spread out and then next thing you know, they're driving down the lane. So it was like do we do we? How do we protect, you know, the paint or do we try to get them out there? But they're just so either way. They were screwed. The problem is you're like, oh, well, if they're playing like this, you know, they're going to they're going to, you know, who's going to stop them. They got totally destroyed in the next round. So so that's a testament to Georgetown.
JVL00:10:14They were Colorado was so up for the Georgetown game. They had nothing right. And that's you want to feel old. You want to feel I'm in the studio shows Wally Zerbiak who was a wunderkind at Miami of Ohio when we were. The same age as him basically is now a middle aged man. I don't even know where he's been for the last 25 years. Maybe maybe he's been doing broadcast somewhere all along and I just didn't know it. But, you know, he now looks like a middle aged dad type just on the, you know, with his giant eyebrows on the halftime shows. And I just think, geez, I remember when you were a 19 year old golden God at Miami of
Vic00:10:53Ohio. I know. I know.
JVL00:10:56Sorry, I didn't mean to be trying too hard there. Audience.
Vic00:11:01I was I was going to say, however, that the post does do still the bracket regional breakdown. Some other younger guy does it now. Johnny Doe. Johnny. Yeah, basically the Johnny Doe of the sports section. But I did not read it because it was sort of pointless and it went on forever. Speaking of which, we're discussing Justice League this week. Sonny, how about a big boy review, but try to keep it under 30 minutes.
JVL00:11:25Can't.
Vic00:11:25This is this is the moment. By the way, this is the moment you've all been waiting for. Everybody's been talking about and I never thought this would actually happen. Nobody thought this would ever. And I really wasn't really looking forward to it. But here we are.
Sonny00:11:35Nobody thought this would ever happen.
Vic00:11:36So that's it. I'm going to be back in 30 minutes. Go for it.
Sonny00:11:40Well, I mean, look, here's here's the short version of Zack Snyder's Justice League. It's about the heroes of Earth coming together to stop an alien invasion led by Steppenwolf. To do this, they have to reanimate, bring back to life Superman. And they do it. And then they defeat Steppenwolf at the end. It's the same exact movie. It's the same exact movie as the one we talked about in 2017. It's just twice as long. It's twice as long. No. So the what what the Snyder cut represents is the purest expression slash proof of auteur theory that exists. Because what all you have to do is look at any any any two frames in this film compared. Look at look at any scene from this film. And any scene from the theatrical cut. And even the ones that are exactly the same, even the ones that Joss Whedon didn't reshoot. And Joss Whedon reshot something like 75 percent of Justice League, the theatrical cut. Even the ones that he didn't reshoot look very, very different. Just want two brief examples. One one example is there's there's a this is one he did reshoot. So there was a conversation between Martha Kent. And Lois Lane about, you know, Superman and her and Lois Lane's, you know, not wanting to be alive anymore, basically. And the in the Joss Whedon version, it looks like it was shot in the office. It looks like it was shot at Dunder Mifflin on NBC's The Office. It's super bright. There's this weird green plant that looks like it was bought at a Staples and just shoved in the background. And it's just basic one shot, two shot. One shot, two shot, you know, under fluorescent lights in the in the Zack Snyder version. It's shot in Lois's apartment. It's darkly lit with like kind of some smoke filters. The color grading is all different. Just the the the like texture of the film is different because it's lit like somebody who actually cares about lighting and cares about how a thing looks. It's it's it's hard to describe orally, orally. You know how how different this film looks. But there is one way to experience it. And I'm going to insert an audio clip here. That is the difference between the Danny Elfman score and the Junkie XL score, which so originally Junkie XL and Hans Zimmer had scored the whole thing. And Warner Brothers got rid of that and brought in Danny Elfman to do it. And we'll just listen to the the two. This is the same exact scene. Both of these these clips. All right. First is Danny Elfman, then Junkie XL. All right. If you listen to that and you can hear it under the gunfire, it's it's like this weird tinkling thing for Danny Elfman. It's like light and funny and lame. And with and with Junkie XL, it's like dark and heavy and kind of techno ish. And and, you know, it has some some base and guts to it. And that's just like that's the difference. That is that is an an audible. Auditory explanation of how these things are different.
Vic00:15:32So it's sort of like the the the Richard Donner Superman versus the Richard Lester Superman. It went from serious to funny, kind of something musically that kind of something like that. I don't even know what Junkie XL is.
Sonny00:15:43He's the he's Tom Hulkenberg. It's the guy who did the score for that.
Vic00:15:47He goes by Junkie. It goes by Junkie like McG.
Sonny00:15:50Yeah. So I don't know, man. Like it's it is in one way. It's the same exact movie in the very basic plot. Impression of like what a movie is. It's the same basic movie. But in the Snyder Cut, everything is is is longer, more fleshed out, better. Cyborg has a whole actual arc. He's got a relationship with his father. And that was that was not that was not in the original. That was not in the original at all.
Vic00:16:17What do you know about Cyborg in the Joss Whedon?
Sonny00:16:19He just he just kind of he he gets a very basic like, oh, here's a guy who was brought back to life by his dad. And then he says Booyah at the end. Like, yeah, that's like his whole that's his whole arc. And in this, it's it's much different.
Vic00:16:34It's Cyborg thing. I you know, I'm I'm not I don't know who Cyborg is. So I watched this without any knowledge of this this being. And I was quite impressed by I like that part.
Sonny00:16:44Ray Fisher. Ray Fisher. His piece, his piece part was totally gutted in the in the theatrical cut. Restoring that was a big thing here.
Vic00:16:54It's key. It's sort of around.
Sonny00:16:55Yeah. I mean, he is like in a way he is the main character of. Of this, he's the one who actually, you know, whatever the movie, a lot of people have complained about the aspect ratio. This is presented in four by three, which is kind of which is a boxier aspect ratio. And it is it's basically the IMAX ratio. It's not it depends on which IMAX theater you see it in. But it's like the traditional IMAX ratio. And Zack Snyder shot it in this. And instead of, you know, trimming it down, taking off the tops and the bottoms to, you know, make it fit your widescreen TV, he's showing it in the IMAX aspect ratio. And a lot of people hate this because they hate letterboxing. And this is I realized as people were arguing about this, this is what it must have been like to be alive when people were like, why are there boxes at the tops and bottoms of my screen for Goodfellas? All I want to do is have it take up the whole picture. I need it. I need it over.
Vic00:17:50Well, you know, the old remote controls had that button that you could like go widescreen and then you would miss things, but that's OK. And then full frame. I remember. That I had that on my in-laws had that and then and then they would switch and then you'd watch regular shows and then you would have no idea what the scores were because they left it at that.
Sonny00:18:06Yeah, but it's I but the reason he does this and the reason that this film is taller rather than wider is because he wants the figures on the screen to be imposingly large and looming down on you. I mean, it's it's a movie about gods coming, coming to the real world and what they would do to it. I don't know. I like it is it is the purest. Amalgamation of a philosophical ideal and a filmmaking technique outside of like a Hans Hans Zimmer outside of a Terry Malick movie, basically. I mean, it's like it's crazy. Anyway, this is a great, great movie, a million stars out of four, one one million stars out of four.
Vic00:18:48Did you watch it in one sitting?
Sonny00:18:51I watched it in I watched it all in one sitting and then I watched it a second time, broken up a little bit, broken up. Eight hours of eight hours of Justice League, eight hours of the Snyder cut. I don't know, man. I like this is not a movie that is going to be for everyone. If you don't like Batman for Superman, Dawn of Justice, Ultimate Edition, the the director's cut, not the crappy theatrical cut. If you don't like that, then you're not going to like this. If you don't like Man of Steel, you're not going to like this. Like it's it is not a film that is going to win over converts. But what it is is an expression of a style and an idea and an ideal, and I'm glad it exists, and I'm glad we can all see it, and I'm glad we can all realize that Joss Whedon is a fraud and a hack. That's those are those are the things that I am glad for.
Vic00:19:36You go. Thank you, Sonny JVL. Did you see this recently in one sitting? Did you have to break it up? Did you not make it through? What's going on?
JVL00:19:47I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to waste anybody's time with some people that I think Victorino. What did you think about it?
Vic00:19:54Well, I had to break really not watch the first just I feel like we did a show on Justice. Yes, I believe I must have skipped it. I wasn't there for that. Maybe he had a guest host or I just did it. There are movies.
JVL00:20:04Did you fake your way through it?
Vic00:20:05What? Did you fake your way? No, no, no, no. I never do that. I never die. I never do that. You only do that with books. I only do that with books. We'll get to that in a second. We'll get that. I got 1984 done. I got I'm done. I'll get to that in a second.
JVL00:20:18And at the end.
Vic00:20:19What is that? Two hundred and twenty five pages. Oh, my gosh. More than three hundred and something. If you include the afterward by Eric Fromm, which was terrible anyway. Let me just say, no, we went through a bunch of substandard episodes. If you remember, we're only two of the three of us would see a movie. Do you remember that? No. Yeah. And then Pod was like, you need to all see the movie.
Sonny00:20:41Yeah. There were definitely a handful of episodes where we did.
Vic00:20:43So I never saw Chaff, King Arthur and stuff like that. So in any event, I liked that they broke it up into part one, part two, because it made you think that you're making progress. So I'm like, OK, I got through this part. I can see maybe one more as opposed to because when it's it's just four hours straight, you just I could see myself getting lost. Chapter breaks. Chapter breaks.
Sonny00:21:08This is why Dan Brown is the most successful author of all time, because he's got three hundred chapters per book.
Vic00:21:17So yes. So I mean, it's like the equivalent of I mean, they don't do it, but obviously in the olden days, like in The Sound of Music or Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or whatever, there's the into the intermission overture. And then you could take a break. So this was good. How many parts were in this, Sonny?
Sonny00:21:32Well, there was a prologue, then six parts and then an epilogue. Basically. Yeah.
Vic00:21:38Yeah.
Sonny00:21:39So I mean, the prologue, by the way, is just three minutes of Superman screaming. He screams for three minutes and it reverberates. Oh, the prologue.
Vic00:21:46Yes. The prologue. The prologue. So I didn't have any expectations if I had low expectations because I'm not a day. I'm not a D.C. person, with the exception of the Christopher Nolan Dark Knight. Series. And I don't really I mean, other than the main characters, I have no knowledge of what these people are, who they are. You know, I think I remember Dark Side because he might have been in the Super Friends.
Sonny00:22:10That sounds right.
Vic00:22:11It might have been.
Sonny00:22:12So what are we looking at on the quadrants here?
Vic00:22:15Oh, not too good. No. No. So for plot, I give it a D. We're going to have to we're going to have to discuss the
Sonny00:22:23things that you did for derivative derivative.
Vic00:22:26Did you get to that? Yes. Duration is an F. OK, that's just uncalled for. It's a great series. If you said, oh, this was a four day series or a week long.
Sonny00:22:37Why didn't you just watch it over a week?
Vic00:22:39I did. I watched it over. I watched it in three days. See, there you go. It was three days as a movie. If they expect you to watch this as a movie for four hours, OK. Action and violence. I give it an A because there's plenty of it, although I have to tell you, I'm getting tired of watching CGI superhero violence. It's not doing it for me anymore. I recently watched rewatched Lethal Weapon two, which I mentioned is one of the great quadrant movies of all time. And of course, you know, that's a Richard Donner movie. That's I shouldn't be talking about him a lot, but that's another Richard Donner movie. And that obviously was in the late 80s or whatever. And no CGI. They're just a lot of stunts, a lot of crashes, and it is visually pleasing. Yeah. And you know what? I didn't realize until the end of Lethal Weapon two, by the way, not to get on this tangent written by Shane Black or story by Shane Black.
Sonny00:23:35Geez. I think you wrote the first one, too, right, JVO?
Vic00:23:39Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And sex nudity. I give a D obviously Gal Gadot, though. She is just amazing to watch. I just like.
JVL00:23:48This movie doesn't get an N.A. You've been given out on sex and nudity for months now.
Vic00:23:55I thought about it and I think you're right, JVO. I just need to be. I need to be honest and grading it, being it because because movies like Lethal Weapon two, you know, they've got it. And if you don't got it, you don't got it.
JVL00:24:06So so what's Lethal Weapon two PG? No, no, no, no. Are I sure? Yes. Yes. Was it a lot of even with the shower?
Vic00:24:15I feel I feel like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
JVL00:24:18In the beginning, it was still like PG.
Vic00:24:20Which movie are you talking about?
JVL00:24:22Lethal Weapon two. Oh, no. That's the first thing. The first one. That's the first thing.
Vic00:24:27I'm sorry. That's the first one. That's the first one. That's the first one. That's the first one. That was probably PG. And anyway, but she's just very enchanting and Amber Heard was dripping wet from the water. From the water. Okay. So that's my. So it comes to it comes to a C minus. Wow. Anyway, I don't know. I hate doing this with you watch a movie and I know it's not fair. But the first thing you come to, you know, when you think, okay, well, what's the plot here? Oh, they got to steal these cubes or they got to get these cubes or or somebody's going after the cubes. The first thing I'm thinking about is, you know, stones, you know, and bring them into a gauntlet. And so, I mean, that's one thought.
Sonny00:25:06And then did you did you understand? Did you understand exactly what was going on with Steppenwolf and Darkseid? Did you not at all? Could you explain to me what the anti life equation is? No. It's the stuff. I think I want to hear. I want to hear your in your words. Yes. Vic Mattis. Uh huh. What is the anti life equation?
Vic00:25:26The anti life equation. The anti life equation is reducing the universe's population by half. That's what happens and the other thing is makes more sense than what it actually is. OK, good. You'll have to explain it in a second. I have a long list of questions, but the in terms of like, oh, they have to be protected by the different races and species of Earth. Again, I'm thinking about, you know, the rings and then and then it's also like horcruxes or something. I don't know. And what happens with the you get all the cubes together? It's a bad thing. Just like if you put all the stones together and you snap your finger, it's a bad thing. I'm not saying it's not fair that I'm just saying that's what came to my mind. I don't know who was first when they wrote this. Also, if you ever played Diablo, every time you talk about the cubes, I'm just thinking about the Heradra cube. Not that anyone plays that anymore. That's pre World of Warcraft. OK, so those are my thoughts.
Sonny00:26:21All right. Would you want to run through your questions? I know you have a long list of questions.
Vic00:26:26I do. I do. We have another thought, which is Joe Morton. Poor Joe Morton. This is the second time that he's gotten in trouble over looking into cyborgs. If you remember, he was in Terminator 2 and he was the designer for the Terminator in Cyberdyne systems. And then now, of course, his son, because he got split in half. Is that what happened? He's missing legs.
Sonny00:26:55Well, his son was in that car crash.
Vic00:26:58Yes. Yes. But I think only his upper part was sort of alive. So, you know, but he met well.
Sonny00:27:03He was mostly dead.
Vic00:27:04Okay. And then he and both times Joe Morton dies both times in the process. Okay, question. Is there an alt? I didn't see the original. So is the ending the same?
Sonny00:27:20The ending is the same in well, the ending is the same insofar as the epilogue is not on the theatrical cut. And, and it ends with the team coming together at the end having defeated Steppenwolf and his his evil minions and they have their they have the like big hero shot together. Oh, and then cyborg cyborg says Booyah, which is not in this one. Not in this one.
Vic00:27:45Not in the dream. Okay, well, let me get to that in a second. How did cyborg question? How did cyborg find the waitress who got a lousy tip gave the money to the homeless celebrated his birthday and then got evicted from her apartment?
Sonny00:28:01Because he's, he's basically omniscient through all the technology. He saw her at the at the ATM and was like, what's this lady's deal? And all the goods all the good that she did, and then decided to give her $100,000 Okay.
Vic00:28:18Who visited Lois Lane in the guise of Martha Kent?
Sonny00:28:22That's the Martian Manhunter.
Vic00:28:23Why? So the buck her up to boost her spirits.
Sonny00:28:27The Martian Manhunter. The Martian Manhunter is a shapeshifter. I don't know what other powers he has. I think he can fly.
Vic00:28:33Well, he reappears later then.
Sonny00:28:35He reappears later. So originally, so Zack Snyder has said originally, the character that shows up at the end was supposed to be a Green Lantern. It was supposed to be a guy with a power ring from the planet Oa. And he was gonna he was gonna show up and be like, I am here to help you fight Darkseid and save Earth. But DC DC slash Warner Brothers were like, No, you can't use Green Lantern at the end. We're saving the Green Lanterns for something else. Ryan Reynolds. So he was like, I guess so. Well, fine. I guess I'll bring Martian Manhunter back. Martian Manhunter. He's a shapeshifter who can, I think, control people's minds or read their minds. And he is he is trying to get Lois back in the game. He wants to get her back in the game.
Vic00:29:17Question. Does Flash's father Billy Crudup know he's Flash?
Sonny00:29:22No, I don't think so.
Vic00:29:25There was a line about foot in the door and I thought foot. No, no, he you don't think he just thinks he's smart. He tells his he tells his father he's got a job.
Sonny00:29:33What is the job working for the Justice League in the crime lab? He's got a job at the crime lab.
Vic00:29:40I guess. Okay. All right. Is that what you mentioned before? You were asking me questions about Dark Side and the and Steppenwolf. Yes. Is it like from the first Avengers, Thanos and then the other guy below him?
Sonny00:29:58Kind of like that, or not really Thanos and that guy, but that are not really Avengers, but I'm Guardians of the Galaxy. Guardians of the Galaxy. Excuse me. Yeah. That's what I meant. What's his name? The Redeemer. Ronan.
Vic00:30:12Ronan the Accuser. It was at the end.
Sonny00:30:14It was at the end. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. So that I think that that is more what you're thinking. I think it's basically same basic idea.
Vic00:30:21Yeah. Does Dark Side live in Mustafar because it looks like it?
Sonny00:30:26No. No. No. No. He lives on the planet Apocalypse. He lives on the planet Apocalypse. A-P-O-K-O-L-I-P-S.
Vic00:30:33In Planet Apocalypse, there is a human. Who is that? There's like these creatures. They're Dark Side.
Sonny00:30:38Then there's like a guy with blood hair. JBL, who is that? That's Granny something or other, right? Something badness. Something or another. Jack Kirby created a lot of terrible characters in the 1970s for DC and all of the Dark Side characters are like, I have no idea who Dasaad is.
JVL00:30:58Barda. Right.
Sonny00:31:00Maybe Barda. Yeah.
JVL00:31:02All the new gods.
Vic00:31:03All the new gods. Barda.
Sonny00:31:05Big Barda.
Vic00:31:06I don't know. Whatever. Okay. Boom tubes. And I think this is my last question is, is Superman supposed to act like a robot?
Sonny00:31:14Well, Henry Cavill's Superman. Oh, okay. Very conflicted. I'm just checking.
Vic00:31:19About. That wasn't Brandon Routh?
Sonny00:31:21No.
Vic00:31:22I thought it was. It's not. Okay. It's not Brandon Routh. Okay. What's the deal? It's the beginning, the prologue. What is going on with Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor in the puddle?
Sonny00:31:36That's at the end of Batman versus Superman, Dawn of Justice, which if you haven't seen that, well, no wonder none of this made any sense to you.
Vic00:31:45I have to tell you, the last Superman I saw might've been Superman for the quest for peace.
Sonny00:31:50Well, obviously, I mean, that's the only good Christopher Reeve one, so where he fights the nuclear man.
Vic00:31:55The nuclear man. Yes. The nuclear man. John Cryer is in that.
Sonny00:31:59John Cryer is in that as Lex Luthor's annoying nephew. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vic00:32:05So other than that, I thought it was fine. I mean, a lot of questions, but I still found it entertaining. And yeah, I don't know what Aquaman brings to the table because-
Sonny00:32:20He brings tribal tattoos, is what he brings to the table.
Vic00:32:24I mean, he's the important part, but there was nothing-
Sonny00:32:27I dig it, man.
Vic00:32:28You know, the parts that involve the water, powerless. They took the cube from the water and then he fights him with his trident. But now the rest of it didn't land the entire time.
Sonny00:32:37He also basically just, yeah, he basically just has kind of Superman power. He's just like super strong and like kind of invulnerable. And they're all basically like lesser versions of Superman in this. Like Wonder Woman and, you know, Aquaman and Flash.
JVL00:32:55But that was always, I think it was Flash, you know?
Vic00:32:58It was interesting that the concept is he can slow time down. It's not that he's fast, but everyone goes slow. That's interesting. But the Aquaman thing I thought was very frustrating because it's like you can't bring it like an orca into the situation.
Sonny00:33:10The way Zack Snyder uses Flash is so much better than the way Joss Whedon used Flash. I mean, in the theatrical cut, the way they used Flash was he was just kind of fast. And the way they used him was like in the theatrical cut, there's this whole subplot with this Russian family that lives in the irradiated wasteland. That they have to save and like a whole bunch of other Russians. So like the way that Joss Whedon used Flash's powers was they had him push a truck full of Russians real fast. That was like that was his power. And in this movie, he has the godlike ability to outrace death. He can run so fast he can turn back time. And that is how he saves like the entire planet Earth and like it just the contrast between these two ideas and ideals is is kind of at the heart of everything that is better about Snyder's version than than Whedon's.
Vic00:34:05I'm just glad Flash didn't run backwards to rewind it like the original Superman did. That would be a cheat.
Sonny00:34:14Well, this is I mean, this is whatever. I don't I don't actually like the Richard Donner Supermans. I think they're just not. I don't think they're very good.
JVL00:34:22Yeah, I think they're just I think they just they I guess they were before my time.
Sonny00:34:27I don't know. I didn't grow up with them.
Vic00:34:29So that's right. It was amazing. It came after Star Wars. So it's oh my gosh, it was the same feeling with a star studded cat Marlon Brando.
Sonny00:34:35Now I guess you have Russell Crowe, Russell Crowe, greater sign Marlon Brando in the in the Superman movies.
Vic00:34:42Probably.
Sonny00:34:43I don't know who weighed more specifically in the Superman movies. Well, this is before Russell Crowe was in unhinged when he weighed 800 pounds before
Vic00:34:52he was in my 600 pound I still can't get over the we watch that movie and it was that was real. That movie was something.
Sonny00:34:58Yeah. That was CGI on that one.
Vic00:35:00Hmm. It was terrible. Okay. You were right by the way about the Zack Snyder slow mo fixation because it did feel a lot like I was watching basically a Subaru or Allstate commercial and it's it's like it's
Sonny00:35:17it's like every other shot to like for instance, Lois Lane gets coffee and walks out of the coffee shop and it's just like going down the street and like Oh, did they?
Vic00:35:27Yeah. Well, there's that. Yeah. Yeah. But just in general the opening the opening was lots of slow the opening of the death of Superman was very as as the scream reverberated around the world yes and and he was killed by some being that I have no idea who that was.
Sonny00:35:44Yeah, that was doomsday again. This is the end of Batman versus Superman Dawn of Justice.
Vic00:35:49All right.
Sonny00:35:50Okay, we're fighting against doomsday.
Vic00:35:52What is the significance of what Lex Luthor escapes from Arkham? Is that what happens?
Sonny00:35:57Lex Luthor escapes from Arkham and he's gonna he up with that show Joe Joe Manganiello who's playing no Deathstroke Deathstroke and Deadshot are the same exact character as far as I can tell. But but JBL is shaking his head very hard. I can never tell the two of them apart. All I know is that Joe men Mangiello or whatever is playing a one one version of the character and also Will Smith played the other one in Suicide Squad.
Vic00:36:24What about Josh Brolin?
Sonny00:36:26Josh Brolin is playing. Uh, he plays, um, uh, cable in the, uh, in the Deadpool movies. Very different. Oh, very different. How dare you? Why?
Vic00:36:40How dare you mix universes? I really am so confused. Why? What? What? What is Batman talking about? The dream where Flash says the key is Lois Lane. What is happening there?
Sonny00:36:50Well, this is in again, this is in Batman versus Superman Dawn of Justice, which you have not seen apparently, but there's a there's a nightmare sequence, which is so at the end of this movie, you know, there's the wasteland. Yes. And that's another night. Joker. That's a nightmare. That's a nightmare. That's night. K. N. I. G. H. T. M. A. R. E. Nightmare. Uh, and in the, in Batman versus Superman Dawn of Justice, there's a similar sequence where, uh, Superman kills Batman basically.
?00:37:16Okay.
Vic00:37:17I'm just processing that.
Sonny00:37:20This is a, the, the, the nightmare sequences are in a, uh, an earth that has been ravaged by, uh, by. Dark side. Yes.
Vic00:37:29And the forces of apocalypse. That part I gathered and they had to team up with basically like, uh, well just right now it looks like just the Joker and a handful of those guys.
Sonny00:37:39Joker, Joker, dead, dead shot slash death stroke. Right. Uh, uh, Mira, who's like carrying around jugs of water, which is, I, I like, I missed that the first time, but she's like got these canisters of water. That made me laugh.
Vic00:37:51Uh. Why, what does that mean?
Sonny00:37:53She's quite sure. Because she's a, she's a. Oh, an Atlantean. Atlantean. And she's like. I thought that was.
Vic00:37:58She's walking around in the desert. I thought that was, I thought that was like a bizarro Amber Heard.
Sonny00:38:02It is. It is Amber Heard. It's Mira.
Vic00:38:05Oh, sorry. JVL, I know you're tempted to, tempted to chime in. No, not really.
JVL00:38:12I don't want to, I don't want to distract the audience from the genius.
Vic00:38:15Wow. They're punishing. You're punishing us. You're punishing us. Uh, okay. Well, uh, then so she is not, she's still good. Mira. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. So she's like, she hasn't turned bad, but the only bad person is Jared Leto as the joke.
Sonny00:38:34Wow. But they're all teaming up to save the world.
Vic00:38:36So I mean, that's right. They're really bad. He gives them a car. They're really bad. Do you like the Jared Leto Joker?
Sonny00:38:43Uh, not really. Not really. Doesn't, doesn't do a ton for me. I like him more in this than I did in suicide squad. Uh, okay.
Vic00:38:52Well, I didn't see that one. Wow. Um, I would say, uh, I liked, uh, walking. Phoenix better than the Jared Leto one. Well, walking Phoenix. I don't know. I mean, it depends. It's Jared Leto trying to, uh, um, trying to be Heath Ledger.
Sonny00:39:08Yeah. There's definitely an element of that. Definitely an element of it.
Vic00:39:13Yeah. Okay. Well, that answers all my questions.
Sonny00:39:16Great. Great. JBL. What did you think?
JVL00:39:20I've nobody.
Sonny00:39:21Nobody cares what I think. You watched four hours of this. You got things to say. Sonny and I care.
JVL00:39:25Sonny and I care. I, I think that either Bob Iger gave Joss Whedon $5 billion to go and destroy DC Comics from the inside or, uh, 25 years ago, Ray Fisher, like bumped into Joss Whedon on the street and kicked his dog and spit. On him. And Joss, he didn't know who Joss was because Joss is this giant headed nerd and Joss went to just wrote his name down in a book, so damn good to get him. And uh, I don't think I've ever seen an actor treated as badly by an edit of a project as Ray Fisher was. Yeah. Treated by Whedon.
Sonny00:40:22Uh, Ray Fisher, Ray Fisher has been furious about this for, for years now. He like waged, he's basically gone to war. Yeah. With WB and uh, NDC over it.
JVL00:40:31You know what? That I understand that now. Yeah. That is not prima Donna behavior.
Vic00:40:36That is not, I mean, having seen this movie, he's great and I could see why, wow, if he wasn't, if it wasn't like that in the original wallet, then that, that sucks. So I'm glad that this was a restored, uh, so good for him.
JVL00:40:51Yeah. I, you know, I look every movie, every good movie should have this first, right? We, I mean, they should've, they should have handed over a cut of the Godfather to, I dunno, pick whoever the worst director in America was in 1974 or whenever Godfather came out and said, you release this first, we'll let people look at your shit stain. And then when we show people Francis Ford Coppola's vision. Because it is impossible to evaluate the Snyder cut independently of the level set by the original version.
Vic00:41:39So, but I, you know, in other words, had Snyder come out first, we'd be just, maybe I, I don't
JVL00:41:46know. The point is we can't know what we would think right because of it. Uh, and I think it's, it's possible that people would have shrugged. I mean, it's not a perfect movie. There's a lot wrong with it, but if this had been split into two pieces, why would this not have been the infinity war movies?
Sonny00:42:07Yeah, I there's, there's a three hour cut of this movie somewhere. I'm sure that is, that is much more watchable and, and you know, it gets a little, little quicker to the point.
JVL00:42:20I, I like it as two, two hour movies, honestly, I don't need it. I don't need it shorter.
Sonny00:42:26Do you cut it? Do you cut it? Uh, before or after the resurrection of Superman?
JVL00:42:33Probably right before. And, uh, I mean, whatever, again, nobody gives a fuck what I think about anything, but, uh, I thought it sort of earned everything in all the ways that the original cut did not earn it. And, uh, everything about it is good and interesting, basically interesting movie. It would have been, it would have been a dynamite six part miniseries. Yes. On HBO Max. I'm shocked that they backed away from, from doing that. I thought that was going to happen.
Vic00:43:04I was surprised we had talked about this on the show and I thought that was real. And I was surprised when I, when I clicked it on it, it just says four hours in. I said, Oh yeah, I am.
Sonny00:43:14I am surprised as well. Not only because I think it would work, I think it would, I think it would be more watchable as a six part miniseries, um, but just for business reasons. Yeah. Just for business reasons. Cause if you release this as a, as a six part miniseries, uh, people are talking about it for a month and a half. Um, you know, at the very least you capture two months of people who are signing up just for this, right? Like, like that is the purest, basic, most based reason for doing it. But if you look at something like WandaVision, uh, where the numbers are coming in and each week the Nielsen streaming numbers are going up for it. I like it's, it's the sort of thing that I think, you know, it create, it could create a little, a little more buzz. Now, Hey, look, the whole, the whole point of this was Joss Whedon is releasing his vision and Joss Whedon or a Zack Snyder is releasing his, his vision. Zack Snyder wanted it all released at once. He was like, no, we're not doing the six part thing. No, we're not going to put it out in widescreen. We're doing it in a four by three. So I mean like, you know, I, I, on that, on that level I get it, but from a, from a pure business perspective, it, it is kind of surprising.
JVL00:44:22I cannot think of a bigger mistake. Made by a corporation in the handling of intellectual property in, in our lifetimes, except maybe, maybe what Kathleen Kennedy did to star Wars. But uh, I mean, cause this had this become the infinity wars movies, whereas the infinity wars ended an era of Marvel. This is the launching point for an era of DC. This actually. Publishes a bunch of new characters, many of whom you, the audience are now invested in and would like to go spend time with in their own movie. Would you like to go spend some time with, uh, Victor stone who had this weird thing where, uh, he hated his father because his father saved him and he didn't want to want to, to live. And now he hates himself because he couldn't save his father. That's a really interesting emotional dynamic. This guy is, is an interesting character. We are sympathetic. To him, Barry Allen has this weird conflict that we don't know anything about. We just know that his dad is in jail and he's devoted to, so that's not been established
Vic00:45:36in the previous.
JVL00:45:37No, none of the oldest stuff is new and you know, wonder woman, it shows a totally new side of the character, which, uh, you know, I mean, it is a real statement when wonder woman kills the bad guy in the very opening of the movie, she doesn't have to, she just doesn't like him. And this middle-aged man is. Threatening a bunch of teenage girls. And so instead of apprehending him, she kills him vaporizes and then turns right around and is sweet smiling one-on-one because that is the best version of the character. She is a warrior who would just assume decapitate her enemies as not, but then is sort of regal. She's not bloodthirsty.
Vic00:46:18She's regal and caring and super again, just honey bits of all the character. Do you recognize the terrorist at the bank?
Sonny00:46:27Yeah. That's the guy from Game of Thrones. That's right.
Vic00:46:30Of the House of Bolton. Yeah. Yeah.
Sonny00:46:33Ramsey snow's father. Geordie? Geordie Bolton? Well, no, not Ramsey. Not Ramsey's father. Or maybe. Well, I can't remember. Like. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah.
JVL00:46:45Bruce Bolton. Yeah. That's right. This could have been the jumping off point for the real expansion of the DC film universe, which could have resulted in direct spinoffs from these two movies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Almost certainly lost money and which drove away all of the talent from the series and forced them to a place where he had to reboot everything.
Sonny00:47:25Yeah. And this is. This is 2017. Right. So in theory, after this movie, you were supposed to get you were supposed to get a flash movie like within a year or two after that, the flash movie has not even started filming yet. Like they have not even started shooting it yet.
JVL00:47:41They can't find somebody to direct it right because nobody wants to go and work with these people.
Sonny00:47:49Right. Well, and part of this is Ezra Miller apparently is like getting involved with rewrites and nobody really wants anything to do with that. But, you know, that was. That was like that was a whole they were going to do a whole flashpoint. The Cyborg movie will never happen now because Ray Fisher will not be working with DC and WB anymore. They have parted ways, you know, like Henry Cavill has no interest in being a part of this the series anymore. And for their part, Warner Brothers and DC have been very explicit in the last couple weeks here saying, you know, oh, we're going to have a we're going to have a Ta-Nehisi Coates Superman directed by J. J. Abrams. We're going to have a you know, we're going to have a Latinx Blue Beetle. And they're they're basically sitting there daring the fandom to complain about this so they can say, look, these people are racist. You don't want to be like them. They just want these, you know, these old white guys in the roles. It's it's it's really it's it is sad on a on a certain level and deeply annoying. And I you know, there is there is currently a fan movement. A foot to, quote, restore the Snyder verse. And I just don't think that's going to happen because I don't think Zack Snyder wants anything to do with it. I don't think half the actors want anything to do with it. And I know for a fact that Warner Brothers wants nothing to do with it. And Sarnoff wants this to be the end of it. She she wants this to be done. So it's a it's a shame. It's a shame.
Vic00:49:18You know, they could do a series of movies involving like Dracula, Frankenstein and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, things like a dark universe. I think would be interesting. So what was supposed to have been the sequel to this? Because, you know, like at the end of every Marvel movie, there's a teaser about whatever it's going to be next coming up next little bit teasers there. What was supposed to be the one that to come after this flash flash was last movie, followed
JVL00:49:45by followed by the cyborg.
Sonny00:49:48Well, well, so there was an Aquaman movie that was basically shot. Right.
JVL00:49:52So I was done and ready.
Sonny00:49:53Aquaman was done and ready and Aquaman killed. It killed with critics. It did a billion dollars box office.
JVL00:50:00Imagine how much more money it would have made following a popular version of Justice League. That was a two part movie that turned into that came out after Justice League. Yeah, really. And I believe this would have beaten Infinity War to the theater. Right. So Infinity War would have looked derivative of this and not the other way around. Yes.
Vic00:50:19Not instead of me complaining about the other way around the what about what happened with Wonder Woman 84 is that does that come out? After it came out after Justice League obviously two weeks ago, but it's but it's a but it's
Sonny00:50:31a prequel.
Vic00:50:32So it's a pre.
Sonny00:50:33Okay.
Vic00:50:34Okay. All right. I think I didn't know she traveled back in time. Do we, Sonny, do you have any other thoughts on, on this?
Sonny00:50:43I have a lot of thoughts on this, but the, you know, here's one last thing, one last minor comparison. I remember watching this movie in the theaters and there's the scene at the beginning where the terrorists come in and, you know, invade the, the museum and and Wonder Woman shows up on the statue, the lady, lady justice. Right. And I remember that shot is in both of these films and I remember seeing it in the theater. And when I saw that shot in the theater, it was one of the worst looking shots I've ever seen in my entire life. It was flat. It was washed out. It was it was, it looked like it was shot in somebody's. Garage against a green screen. I mean that that's how bad it looked and like the things she was standing on looked fake and it just, all of it looked terrible. And that same exact shot is in this movie. And I remember seeing it and thinking, wow, I can't believe Zack Snyder actually saw shot this. I can't believe he shot a shot this bad. And then as I was watching it, I was like, well, this actually doesn't look as bad. It doesn't, it doesn't look as bad. It doesn't look as fake. It doesn't look as flat. And at this point I'm questioning myself and I'm saying, you know what? I, this is me just drinking the Kool-Aid, right? Me drinking the Zack Snyder Kool-Aid and I'm like, it's psychosomatic. I'm talking myself into this not being terrible. And then I went and I literally pulled up both of the movies, uh, the, the theatrical cut of justice league and the, the, the Snyder cut of justice league on my HBO max app. And I watched them on my TV and I went to that exact shot to look at the two shots back to back and the, the, the Joss Whedon version of it is still looks terrible, still looks flat and washed out. The Zack Snyder version has a different color filter on it. It has a, it has a different, uh, doing that gives it a different depth. The clouds have more definition. It's not washed out. It's not, it's not fake looking. It's not flat. It actually has, it actually has a dimensionality to it that simply does not exist in the theatrical version. And I like it. There are so many things like that in the movie where they just went through and like made it lighter. They just went through and they changed the color filters that it's no wonder the cinematographer of this film, Fabian Wagner, possibly Wagner, I don't know how to pronounce his last name said in an interview that he, the first time he watched it, he actually like cried a little bit because they destroyed his cinematography. They destroyed everything he shot that was still in the movie. And I don't, I don't blame him. I don't blame him because if my name was on the, if my name was on the Joss Whedon cut of this movie, I would have been furious. I would have been furious. I cannot believe, I cannot believe watching it that Zack Snyder did not make them take his name off the movie under the directed by credit. I honestly like it's a testament to him being a good team player in a situation where he should not have felt any obligation at all to be a good team player. This should have been an Alan Smithy movie or a Joss Whedon movie.
Vic00:53:49Has anyone been able to get comment from Joss Whedon about what he thinks about he has gone
Sonny00:53:54to ground. So he has gone to, and it's.
JVL00:53:57Jail for like three different things.
Sonny00:53:58Yeah. He's, he has gone to ground because the charisma carpenter situation has blown up in his face. You know, his wife went on a tirade against him a couple of years ago and, and now, uh, and now this, which this is like, in a way it is the most damaging thing, uh, just artistically because you, everyone can see the horrible, horrible things he did to this movie. Yeah. Yeah.
JVL00:54:24So, okay.
Sonny00:54:25Do we think Joss Whedon comes back? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not even as a writer?
JVL00:54:32Maybe a commercial.
Sonny00:54:33Maybe a direct commercial.
JVL00:54:34No. Uh, he'll be in movie jail the rest of his life. Yeah. The world has changed. I, I didn't, so I originally understood why Warners thought they had to release his version of the movie because Ryan, you know, the story in this is that Warners was watching Snyder's movie. They really didn't like it. They were fighting with him. Uh, they were demanding a two hour movie. I think.
Sonny00:55:04Was that right? Kevin Tisha, Tisha Jara or whatever his name is, uh, demanded a two hour cut of this film.
JVL00:55:09Right. And Senator kept saying no. And they kept looking and thinking it was going to be long. And so they Snyder's daughter kills herself. He walks away from the movie. One is led to believe that Warner's welcomes lists, right? They, they were happy to have him go. Anyway, they bring in Whedon and Whedon delivers to them the cut of the movie, which every single person who saw it must have known was terrible. Whedon was problematic on set, right? There were problems with Gal Gadot and Whedon. So it was an unhappy set while Whedon was reshooting the money. And I, I get the sense Warner's just felt like they were backed into a corner and had to release this thing. So there's, but they didn't, you didn't have to do this, right? I mean, you could have. You, you could have just held it, go on hat and hand back to Snyder and said, you know what? We will do this as two movies. Uh, here's another $75 million. Do whatever you want. You can have each one be two hours long if you need to split it up. And the results, the result of not making that decision is going to be again, be several billion dollars of revenue.
Sonny00:56:17Yeah. I, so here's, here is, uh, I, I talked about this on the Bulwark goes to Hollywood with Sean O'Connell, who has written a book about the Snyder cut called release. The Snyder cut. Um, and one of the things that he mentions in his book, and I'd forgotten about this, but it, it is, it is absolutely true. Was it, this was all taking place, this, this, all this drama was unfolding while the AT&T time Warner merger was going on. And if this movie missed its release date, there were a whole bunch of Warner executives and a whole bunch of, uh, a whole bunch of time Warner executives, basically, who were going to miss out on giant bonuses, uh, for failing to, to, you know, miss. You know, revenue targets or whatever. So if this movie had gotten pushed back, you know, to a different fiscal quarter, to a different fiscal year, there, there are people who are losing out on, you know, millions of dollars of their own money. So instead they slapped out the, the, the, the, again, a friend, you're right, JBL. I mean, it's, it is a, it is a billion dollar mistake, a multi-billion dollar mistake. It is a franchise murdering mistake and, and one that every single person involved with
JVL00:57:23it must have known, must have known it's not, it's not like they're well. You know, hindsight is 2020.
Sonny00:57:30I don't know how you can watch the first minute of the Joss Whedon cut with the terrible Superman cell phone video where they have the awful CGI mustache removal on Henry poor Henry Cavill's face and it looks like he's been like stung by bees or something and his face is just all swollen because they had to, I don't see how anybody, any, any human being with eyes. And, and green light powers can look at that thing and say, yeah, we can put this out. We can, we can put this out. It's fine. How do you talk yourself into that? I it's irres, it's irresponsible, bad corporate management, uh, in addition to just being in a artistic atrocity and the other thoughts, okay, whew.
Vic00:58:22We got through it. Correct.
Sonny00:58:24It's not even an hour yet.
Vic00:58:25Look at that. Not even an hour. Correct. Corrections. Anything though? All right. Um, that is all the time we're giving to this episode. Questions, comments, complaints, not complaints, compliments, fucking complaint website. We just add Sonny, but you should do that. Victorino matters. Definitely not at JV last again, be sure to subscribe to us on Patrion. Just go to some beacon.com. We're there. Tell your friends until next time. I wish I could do a book report of 1984 now as opposed to the one I pretended. No, no, no. I'm just kidding. I just kidding. I was never assigned that book.
Sonny00:59:09Uh, and I can't believe you got through middle school and high school without being assigned, uh, 1984.
Vic00:59:14Oh, one of the frustrating things. Well, it's interesting because there's some racy parts, so I can see that might be possibly questionable. I read animal farm, you know, cause there was not any racy parts of that. Um, but like, you know, my sister's class. Had to read that. So I mean, one of the weird things is of course, you know, teachers is, you know, in high school, they don't coordinate with other teachers or what they're gonna, you know, have on their reading lists, you know, every year. And so sometimes I think I always like assigned Romeo and Juliet twice or merch, uh, or, um, uh, taming of the shrew twice, you know, from different classes, like junior year and a freshman year and junior year, because nobody's coordinating and instead you don't get Macbeth, you know, or something like that, you know, it was just weird. Uh, so that just fell through the cracks. And I was just tired of living the lie of the, what did you make of it?
Sonny01:00:01What was your, what was your, I'm just kidding. I never lied. On the quadrants. Oh, it's great. It's great.
Vic01:00:07I'll tell you, man, the, uh, the rats that was killer. That was like hostile. I was really gripped by that. That was really frightening. That was really, really scary. Um, and I, and it helps that, you know, of course Kate read it, so it helps that I can consult her and say, yeah. She's like, you know, did he really die at the end? And she's like, uh, yes, yes he did. But you know, I, you know, because he just, until he finally loves big brother and then he gets, uh, then he gets the bullet in the brain because they want you to be completely pure and, you know, it's not enough that you are, um, being tortured and that they want you to actually believe it. And then they kill you. And I mean, there's a lot of weird things in it. Some of the things obviously very prescient telescreens. I mean, that's really fascinating stuff. I, again, I can go on here for. Another 20 minutes, but it's just weird about Orwell's take on post-world war two and his idea of the different nations and civilizations warring against each other. And part of it, I just, I just didn't buy, but you know, uh, other parts I thought were excellent. Uh, it's funny because you get a forward by Thomas pinch on and an afterward by, um, Eric from, and they're basically both tell you, no, it's not just about Stalin, you know, it's about capitalism too. So, you know, just want to remind you that. Yeah. Um, but it was, uh. Yeah. You know, great book. I'd say one of the other disturbing details that probably nobody spends much time on, but I did was the re all the references to gin because, uh, it is bad gin because he kept on making Orwell must know it must've known it, but he keeps on making, uh, a reference to oily, the oily gin. That's bad. If your gin is oily, that's bad. If you, you know, when you distill, when you distill alcohol, you know, the first part that comes out. You distill is what you call the, the heads, right? And then it's hearts and then tails and you're not supposed to, you're supposed to just capture what comes out in the middle flow. Because if you get the beginning and the end, there's a lot of poison and toxins in that. And it's oily is one of the signs. And so when I'm reading that, that's all I can think of is that, yeah, bad gin. And that for me, I said, if I had to live a future like that, I, I would probably just go right to the ministry of love.
Sonny01:02:22I'm sure it'd be fine.
Spot something wrong in this episode? Suggest a correction →
Comments
Loading…